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Egyptologist Interviews Curt on Love, Truth, God, Childhood

March 22, 2024 • 1:21:32 • undefined

Channel: Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

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[2:37] This is a special episode where someone else interviewed me, and I'm mirroring it here, as many people seem to enjoy the interviews of me for whatever reason. Unfortunately here, with the audio version, you don't get to see my lustrous and dashing good looks. However, you can click the URL in the description for the video version.

[2:53] Lucas Voss, a university scholar of ancient Egypt, interviewed me for his channel called Lucas Voss. He asked me about love, truth, God, my childhood, faith, and Carl Jung. I hope you enjoy it and ensure that you check out his channel, which is again linked in the description. Hello, dear friends. My name is Lucas and today I had the absolute pleasure of hosting Kurt Jaimungal on this channel. Kurt is a filmmaker and host of the Theories of Everything channel.

[3:21] Recording in progress, it's said.

[3:50] So, okay, there we go. I'm going to keep that in. That's beautiful. Okay. Welcome back to the channel guys. I'm joined here by Kurt Jemongo. It's an absolute honor to have you. Thank you for coming on Kurt. Thank you so much, Lucas. I appreciate that. I've been following your channel for a couple of years. And I don't think I have the exact capacity to keep up with all your episodes. But sometimes there's a more philosophical one that's a bit less hard physics or hard mathematics. And then

[4:21] I just, I can listen to them on repeat and keep finding new insights. So I think you're doing a wonderful job at that. Man, you sound almost exactly like Ryan Gosling. Oh, has anyone ever told you that? No, but I like his voice. Okay. Yeah. If anyone's listening, just close your eyes and picture Ryan Gosling. And that's almost like how you look anyhow. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that.

[4:46] I wanted to start with the question I ask a lot of my guests and that is about your childhood and I'd like to know what that was like if you want to to share some of that. Yeah, I was a regular. Well, I wasn't.

[5:02] Popular kid nor an unpopular kid. I was I didn't have plenty of pressure from my parents to do any to go into any field. Though when I was young, my dad did teach me chess, like hardcore. I was like, since I was three years older, so and took me to chess tournaments.

[5:26] Yeah, I would, uh, I

[5:56] Yeah. Anything else? What in particular do you want to know about my childhood? Cause I can go on for hours. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand. I'll think about what is relevant already. This is very telling for me. It's the way it shapes your mind because I contacted you initially saying that I like the way your mind works because it's quite different for me. I'm not able to go into that conceptual space as deeply as you are, I think. And I like to be also a bit more embodied. Um,

[6:26] But yeah, sometimes I've heard glimpses of you in your childhood thinking about about God, for example, or that you that you maybe decide. I think you decided that you decided at some point that you think God doesn't exist because you had a certain thing that maybe your brother said to you. Were you like as a child, were you thinking about these deeper questions you're tackling right now already? Or were you just more of a kid that thought about school and just normal things? Well, when I was eight, I started to think about that.

[6:56] So when I was eight, I remember asking my brother about. How could the universe have come into existence? Why something rather than nothing? And for some reason, that was the last linchpin of God in my life. And my brother had said, as he was studying physics at the time, he said he told me about quantum fluctuations. And I'm old enough now to know that that's not actually an explanation. But at the time I thought it was. And so I thought I had the last piece of the puzzle. I remember.

[7:26] Laying in my bed and staring at the ceiling and thinking, okay, then not only does there not need to be God, but if there's no need to be a God and somehow there isn't a God. And ever since then, I became this this whippersnapping, pretentious, orgyllous young man with a superiority complex over anyone who was cretinous enough to believe in

[7:55] in so called religion, or follow so called in especially institutional religion, because isn't it obvious, like, all institutions are corrupt? Yes. Yeah, as if you're not corrupt, as if I'm not corrupt, as if that's if, yeah. As if I'm not more corrupt, like way more well. And as if there's not far more good in other organizations and other places than I think, in the same way that I underestimate my own

[8:24] Maliciousness, I underestimate the the goodness in others or the goodness in in other places. Yeah, that brings true to me as well. I had a similar journey of getting to that realization. Actually, today is funny story. I live in in The Hague, which is like the political capital of the of the Netherlands, let's say. And

[8:52] In my teenage years, I got more and more suspicious of politicians and that in general. And today I saw the prime minister, we used to be prime minister, at least, and he was just in a bookshop, you know, just picking out some books, just launching around. And I looked at that guy. And I wanted to speak to him just to say hi, whatever. And but he left quite shortly after. And I was like, this is a normal, normal dude. That was the prime minister, he said? Yeah.

[9:18] And I think he's got, he's got goodness in him regardless. I'm, I'm sure of that actually. And it made it harder for me to be that suspicious self or that, that self that, that seeks corruption and others. And that's something I'm generally trying to do less of because I'm seeing how it is unproductive for me to, to view people as corrupt or institutions for that matter. And I like that you're critical of yourself as well in the other way.

[9:48] I think it's extremely helpful and I think it shows in your case that you work on that. So, yeah. Well, I have a policy in myself to assume maliciousness, selfishness or indolence. So like laziness rather than any goodness in myself. And there are many, many examples in my life of that. One that comes to mind, I think I've said this before,

[10:17] This one time I was washing the dishes at my sister's house. And she came home and then she was like, Oh, why are you washing the dishes? And I said, Well, I wanted you to I didn't want you to come home to a dirty place, something like that. But then I was analyzing myself like that stuff doesn't feel right. It just didn't it didn't jive exactly. And

[10:36] And I realized the reason I was washing the dishes was because I had known she was coming home around then. So I want her to see me washing the dishes. She thinks I'm someone who helps clean up not only that so that she can have evidence. OK, Kurt cleans, but furthermore, so that she can clean something else that I don't so that I don't have to clean. So I can say, look, I'm cleaning up. I want you to do so and so. But all of that's under the surface. And it took some examination for me to to see that that tiny

[11:07] Tiny situation had revealed such like a Pandora's box of foolishness on my part. Yeah. And folly. Does that then not translate to other people in your case? Because you say you do the opposite with what I think you said institutions. Do you know I can distrust myself and trust others. So I think that's a great policy. Because I distrust breeds mistrust breeds mistrust. And I

[11:34] And there's some game theoretic arguments about tit for tat and like, yes, so yes, I'm sure you're aware, okay, that you should start off with a policy of trust, and then you amend it when there's evidence, but you start off by opening your hand and allowing others to snap it. And then even afterward, even after you've been burned, that the correct path is to still put your hand forward and say, I know that you've hurt me. I know that I can get hurt again, but I'm willing to pay that price. Well,

[12:05] Did it take long for you to be able to trust people or were you already trusting as a child or was it something that came and went? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I wouldn't say it's something that personally, I don't say that I trust people. I work on trusting. I don't think I trust enough.

[12:37] I also I don't like this phrase trust, but verify that's something that came to mind. Yes, that's the big I'm sure you've heard that. Yes. Okay, because trust but verify is a contradiction. Like unless I don't unless they have some other definition of trust. How do you mean something that sounds because if you trust, why would you verify? So let's say you say four times four to the power of six is 4000, then I can trust you. Or I can verify that and say it's 4096. So

[13:06] I can trust what you're saying or I can verify what you're saying, but they're not entirely like. If I trusted what if I trust my computer, I don't verify it, I don't understand what the difference is. OK, no, I see what the big corner say is they say don't trust. But yes, OK, yes, OK. Don't trust, but verify. Yeah, that's what they do because of the third party element. OK, that makes sense. And you're told that were your parents religious at all?

[13:37] So my dad was Hindu, I believe, before he got married and my mom was Muslim before she got married. And then somehow around the time of them getting united, they became Christian. So my dad and my mom are to this day Christian and I was raised Christian. Just a non denominational Christian. Yes. OK. Did you part from that at all? Yeah, when I was eight,

[14:06] Okay, that was like definite. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I, I've departed quite heavily from that since I was eight, to the point of attacking it and feeling like I was I was in this sounds like a funny choice of word, but holier than it. Yeah, I've been through that.

[14:37] I remember thinking because there's Pascal's wager. I remember thinking from a young age that the foolish wager, because if I was God, I would punish people who believed because they're just believing out of nonsense. And I would be the rational God who would reward those who didn't believe in me. Yeah, I remember saying that to my dad. He just he almost cried. I feel so sorry for you, son. Something like that. I think.

[15:05] I'd like to speak a bit about your relationship to your wife. I think it's always very wonderful to hear you speak about her. Can you tell me how you how you met her? Yeah, she was my stylist, my hairstylist, so seriously. Yeah, that's why many people why your hair is so good. Yeah, yeah, they'll say you have great hair and almost every like hopefully they don't say almost every but every every episode and

[15:36] Yeah, it's because my wife. You started yourself now before before you go. I styled myself, but she cuts it. She makes sure that it's fresh. Do you do often? Do I get my hair cut often? Yeah, I get my hair cut fairly often. Too much for her, actually, is because it should. OK, that's good. See, there's this phrase that if you want to be.

[16:05] liberal or creative, then you need to be conservative in every aspect of your life, other than where you want to be creative. And the reason is that Carl Jung was asked about Nietzsche. Why is it that Nietzsche fell prey to suicide and psychosis? And Carl said that Nietzsche had no ground. And so it was just it was just all air and you need both. Otherwise, you're like the guy from up

[16:33] Just with balloons floating about with no home even. So. So for me, I have my conservative aspects or that I work at the same time, like I have a regiment schedule, I eat fairly much, pretty much the same. I try to go to sleep at the same time, although I have extreme problems, man, like we can talk about that for those who don't know.

[17:03] Me and Lucas had this podcast scheduled yesterday and I have problems sleeping like like you wouldn't believe it wastes hours and hours and hours like like I think that if I could get my sleep sorted out, I could be twice as productive and and I'm already like I already work hard like I can work twice as hard and do twice as much.

[17:27] I laid in bed when I sent you that message, Lucas. People don't know I sent Lucas a message at 3 a.m. I don't know if it was I was irascible and it could have been angry. I apologize if I said no, no, no. I don't know what I'm saying and when I'm in that state, I was just I sent a message also to my guy who helps with the marketing of this of this podcast as well. I think I was criticizing him. I was almost I don't swear even Lucas, like I don't swear. I think I almost warned him.

[17:56] I was so upset. I'm laying in bed for eight hours. Yes, eight hours laying in bed is such a waste of time. My doctor said don't lay in bed for more than a half hour to one hour. If you're not sleeping, get up and go and do something. Yeah, because otherwise you associate your bed with not sleep. I've heard that. Yeah. And so I've associated my bed with not sleep for way too long. Like staying and staying awake for four hours is common to me. Like that's every night. Well, anyhow, and I got this eight sleep recently.

[18:26] So we'll see how that goes. And that night when I texted you, my eight sleep broke in the middle of the night and I was so upset because I couldn't get the water to refill it. There's something that didn't break, but it needed refilling of water. And anyhow, I apologize for whatever I said to you. I think it was a beautiful message, actually, because I was I was just reading it and I was like, this is how Kurt thinks. This is your I just heard the inner mother like

[18:53] It was various, but I felt bad mostly for you. For me, it's not a problem. I'm a student. I don't have a busy schedule like you do, so I'm all good. But study Egyptology. Oh, wonderful. I was extremely fascinated. I memorize all the like almost all the Egyptian gods at one point. Oh, I barely know. I've forgotten that. Yeah, it was just for fun. Yeah, there's a god for so much. There was there's a crocodile god.

[19:24] I wish I had. I wish I had this in my memory. There's a God. There was a God for bartering. I'm sure there is. If they have a God for everything, you know, they've got for when someone cuts you off in traffic and doesn't give you. Yeah, I think that would. What do you actually make of that? What are gods to you? Actually, I asked this to John for Fakie and he gave really for Fakie an answer. He said that they are transjective.

[19:54] You know, that's the type of stuff he would say. Yeah, gods are. I don't know. Firstly, I don't know. I. It could be said that what gods are are gods are. Are yeah, this is correct. Checking the grammar there, but they are.

[20:22] Like if you have a value, what you should have is one overarching value, so that all of your goals, your sub goals are united, akin to an organization that is working toward one, one aspect or one land and and gods are when it's no, it's not one, you're working on two or three or four different lanes. And it's my understanding of religion that across time, you see

[20:48] a collapsing of multi gods to more and more single gods, except in the case of Christianity, those the first time that it had broken that and said, what is one is actually three, but then it didn't go from three to 10 to 20. Yes, go like that. I understand. Although in some ways you can think of Catholicism as as adopting that a bit with with the people, the statues that they pray to, but it's not exactly the same. So anyhow,

[21:18] The gods can be can be akin to fractionated values or contradictory values, indicative of someone who is not united or individuated. But that just means it's all of us that we all worship gods because none of us are are these perfect, individuated beings, not even Jung, not even Carl Jung. OK, I actually didn't research about this. My thesis is about. The specific text. Theological text from Egypt, where

[21:48] Seemingly they speak of one God is the ultimate God and all gods are manifestations of this God and so It's not exactly monotheism what they have there Maybe they call it henna theism. I don't know if you're familiar with henna theism is belief in one God without denying the others Yes, yes so that they still exist and it's interesting because it it happens multiple times in Egyptian history and Egyptian texts and they all seem completely contradictory

[22:18] It's like this God is the one and then that God is the upper God. And I'm just reading this through my Christian lens, I guess, or Western lens. How can you reconcile these realities? And apparently it didn't matter because they didn't think about false or correct like we do. We have a false or correct religion. If you're a religious person, your religion is correct. If it's one of the three Western ones. But for them, it wasn't like that. It was

[22:49] Well, what's really cool about this specific God that in this specific document is being called the one is that his name means hiddenness or something like that. And it's yeah.

[23:18] So his name is Amun, maybe you've heard it, and it comes from the verb iman, which means to hide or to conceal. And one of the reasons why they put him on top is because he doesn't have a name, because when you have a name, you hold power over someone. And so I read this text, I read it for the first time, I basically went to my supervisor being like, I'm not sure what I want to do. But I have these interests, and I spoke about Rene Girard, and I spoke about sacrifice, and I spoke about

[23:49] Religion and he gave me this text and I started reading and I was like, this is I kind of agree with it. You know, I started reading it was like this very much aligns with the way I think about it because I call myself a Christian and perhaps because I don't feel my faith is exclusive. Maybe I'm not allowed to wear that title, but to me, I understand the idea of other gods existing.

[24:18] To me, I see people in my daily life, worshiping other gods. That's normal every day happening for me. So I don't reject their existence. And I know Jonathan, I reject their sacredness. I reject putting them on top. I reject. Yeah, then would they be more profane those gods or those people who worship the gods? I guess.

[24:48] if your highest god is not god in his totality then you are going to be i don't i don't really like the word profane but you're going to be less aligned i guess as you see that in people a lot when their highest god is money or lust i guess that results in a misalignment that's i guess i would view it i don't think those

[25:19] Well, with lust, it's hard to argue for lust in many cases as a good thing. But it, for example, in Egypt is a very interesting, interesting example. You know, Seth, as a God, yeah, yeah, he is as Peterson describes his chaos. And a lot of people instantly, he Peterson even links him to the devil, which I think is pretty funny, because he's like set. And then he looks at the root and he thinks that Satan was possible. But

[25:46] The Egyptians didn't see him as bad necessarily. You could also channel him, channel chaos. When you go to war, maybe you channel Seth. Maybe Seth is necessary to banish out other gods. When the Egyptians have like snakes on their heads, the snakes are kind of dangerous and bad, but also they protect. So it's something like that. But yeah. Trying to remember this interview is about you, so I'd like to.

[26:15] I tried to zoom out a bit, unless you have anything to add to that. But I have many questions which I'll ask you about later, either off air or toward the end. Okay, you can do that. You can do that. This is a question I've been meaning to ask you because you already pulled up Carl Jung and Nietzsche. And I was wondering what it is that grounds you because you are someone that thinks a lot and deeply. And I've been in those spaces a little bit in my life and I realized that

[26:45] For me, I need really something embodied and I know that you don't as a kid, you told me you don't like those embodied type of things. You didn't like woodworking. You don't like working on things for me. Those are the exact things that get me out. So is there something that grounds you?

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[27:39] Well, math grounds me. I know that's odd, but math has saved me by psychologically saved me quite a few times because some of the topics that are on the Toe Channel are quite heavy, quite, quite heavy and can send you or send me especially to a place where it's not a pleasant place at all. And math is so abstract that it's it's a reprieve from the tyranny of the concrete.

[28:09] Now, also what grounds me is my wife, of course, my wife, like most of all, my wife, spending time with her is something that's important to me. We have what are called us days, which are just like date days where we just go and we walk and walk and bike and and we rarely eat at a restaurant. We'll take bites and walk because we love to just walk and talk. We don't want to just sit around and wait for food. So that grounds me and that's important to me.

[28:40] Ensure that there's a part of my week. We both ensure there's a part of our week that. We can do that with one another, at least one, at least one day a week. So that grounds me. I go to the gym and I don't listen to anything when I'm at the gym, no music, no podcasts. And I just, but I think and so I use it to think, but it grounds me as well.

[29:11] So I was thinking, as you said, you like to be embodied. And I I've recently started taking up swimming lessons. Because I don't I know how to swim, but barely doesn't grow me. I was thinking, does it ground me? No, no. It flounders me. Oh, my gosh, it's a frightening experience. Yeah, but I'm surprised. I'm way better at it than I thought. Like I made tremendous progress on my first my first lesson. And I said, that's good lesson. I can float on my back. I never thought I could. And

[29:42] And I thought I would just sink and she was showing me, OK, even if you do sink, here's what you do is it's actually now that I think about it is metaphorically, it may save me later because I know there are certain tools that you can gain from the physical world that can be applied to the spiritual one and vice versa. And so I think this is going to be one of the first instances where it takes something that's that's physical. And. I find the connection to the numinous

[30:12] OK, that's a good answer. I'm happy you you have some some practices like that. You enjoyed the gym. I I hate it and I love it at the same time, like I almost always dread that I have to go, but I go. And toward the end of the workout, I'm just like I just, for instance, before we started speaking, I came back from the gym recently and makes me out of breath.

[30:40] Makes me feel sometimes I feel like I want to throw up. It depends on how hard I work out. But. I feel great, like fantastic afterward, and especially Lucas, like. I love to eat, I love to eat, I love to pick out like I'm a I'm someone who. There's a feast and famine, there's a phrase called feast and famine, so you fast and then you just overeat. I'm somewhat like that, somewhat like that, like surf it, so I

[31:10] Gorge myself way past the point of. Of comfort, but I just love it and I have to work out in order to make sure that that's somewhat healthy and not overly unhealthy. Yeah, I recognize that. And I haven't so much now. Yeah, I used to do fasting and I ate once a day. Yeah, right. It really helped me with my focus during the day, but then.

[31:37] At night, I would go crazy at a while. I just make pancakes every day. That was on. It was also because you eat once a day, you have to eat that much actually to maintain your weight. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, especially if you're building muscle, it's not great to do intermittent fasting. It's difficult. Yes, I experienced that. Yeah. I think I only recently found that out. So I've been intermittent fasting for

[32:05] Maybe three years or so. And I was wondering, I'm like, man, I'm going to the gym all the time. Like, I'm, I'm fit. But why aren't I gaining more muscle like I'm gaining it so extremely slowly? Yeah. And then I believe I watched some Peter Attia video. I had the exact same. Right. You know, what's pernicious about this? This is what's pernicious about this. Peter Attia, my friend, he told me he's like,

[32:31] You got to do fast thing you do once a day, right? So I listen to peers. I was into Huberman before he had his podcast. I just always followed what they were doing. Peter T was eating once a day for years. And then all of a sudden, Peter T changes his mind and he starts building muscle like a maniac. He's like, you don't it's not good to eat once a day or to do that for four muscles. So I had the exact same journey. And then I just stopped. And I know there's. Yeah, I heard that there's well, I saw that there's an article that came out either

[33:00] today or within the week that said that intermittent fasting is associated with a 91% increased risk of cardiovascular damage or heart attacks or whatever maybe I don't think that's the case I find when you look into studies like that they it doesn't it doesn't work out but and it was it was a correlation so the cause could be that when you intermittent when you fast intermittently

[33:28] You have less lean mass, lean, you have less muscle, and the less muscle is worse for you. Systemically. Yes, I understand that can lead to the higher heart. I mean, it could be such a loose connection like that. Yeah. But intermittent fasting is great for. For. That quote unquote autophagy, yes. And lowering risks of cancer and so on. So there are benefits.

[33:58] I never found it increased focus though. I never found anything like Lucas Man. I have tried nootropics of all sorts. I never found that anything increases my focus or my my quickness. I found that plenty can dull it like ADHD medication would dull me. Yes. I know many people are like, Oh, I can't wait to try to do whatever it is. I'm stimulant. I've never found anything to

[34:26] It's more like what you say, you found things that make it worse and fasting for me is one of the ways of doing something that doesn't make it worse because then I don't eat

[34:52] I think about food. Well, I used to think about food all the time, which is why I started the fasting that that's what removed my focus. Fasting increased my focus by me not having to think about food. But it's not I don't know if it's a cognitive enhancer. It's just a fault. When I did my first four day fast, I saw I realized how much time I spent not only thinking about food, but preparing food or

[35:19] Going to out to eat or cooking or whatever, maybe. And then you have so much more time. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. I was also single at the time. So life was just read for the whole day. That's a. I don't I don't want those times anymore, but there was something beautiful about them. Are you living with your partner now? Yes, yes, we're engaged, so.

[35:46] Oh, wonderful. Thank you, man. Thank you. It's kind of a weird thing to do these days. Are you frightened? Are you afraid? Are you exhilarated? I feel that it's a natural progression. And I decided to want to get married when I was 19. And so

[36:09] Being 22 now, it doesn't feel weird. I'm happy and I'm excited to do it. And I'm excited to see everyone happy and my family happy and her happy and to to take that commitment to another level. But it feels for the both of us more like showing it to the other world than the commitment was already there. It's now just. Yeah, I guess sharing it. So that's what I feel about it. Yeah, no. But you got married.

[36:39] That's also, yeah, it's quite a, I don't know, it feels, it feels kind of weird to do these days, but I'm, I'm happy to do it. I think it's, it's important. So speaking of individuation and speaking about what you had mentioned as currently we think about truth as I'm sorry, we think about religions as true or not true.

[37:08] We've gotten into this frame since the enlightenment and we think of truth as facts, facts that are disclosed to me. To me, the person as the individual, I was speaking to my friend, Matthew. Not sure if you know him, I could tell you his last name affair because I'm unsure if he's comfortable with me sharing his information, but. Matthew was saying that in Christianity. The. Well, ever since.

[37:38] Ever since the Ever since Kant formally separated the transcendental. So truth, beauty and which used to be tied together. Yes. Yeah. That Marx and Nietzsche came in and said, OK, what truth is, is this disclosure of facts and that you'll always be suspicious and feel like they're hidden agendas. It's something else I dislike about the UFO scene is that it seems like they have the framing completely incorrect.

[38:08] where there's a concept called hermeneutics of suspicion, where you'll always be suspicious of the next facts, whatever is disclosed to you, you can always feel like that's not enough and there's never a resolution. And truth has become about an uncovering of facts to me rather than a participation in something beautiful, which is tied to love.

[38:38] I feel like the entire framing is incorrect, and it's so difficult to articulate because our entire culture is based off of truth equals facts equals rational. You're so deep into the trenches of that. Yes. Yeah, I recognize that. But that's why. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. No, continue. That's why what? For me, the answer is applying the human ethics of beauty instead, which is something that for vaguely speaks about.

[39:09] Hmm. And so that's actually it goes back to what I spoke about before about me being suspicious about politicians and all these things. Politicians and corrupt institutions. Yes. It's a lens at the end of the day. And the hermeneutics or the interpretation of reality I have now is one of beauty, I guess, love. And it helps me. And I've actually argued before that I think that's more real.

[39:39] But I'm not going to put that in a math equation, I will probably fail, but it feels more real to me. Yeah, it also leads to a sense of hopelessness and cynicism. And then because people can't deal with their people don't want to be people don't want hope because they can't deal with their disappointment. And because they can't deal with their disappointment, they then project this miasma of mistrust and repugnance. So it's not good for them. It's not good for

[40:08] for society. And truth used to be seen as somehow a relationship, not just it's not just a cold, hard, isolated node to be grasped. But somehow there's a relationship between you and the community and you participate in your community and you can uncover. It's not even about uncovering truth. It's so difficult for me to say. But anyway, going back to the individual and you talking about being married,

[40:37] Matthew was saying that in Christianity, some interpretations of Christianity is that the individual isn't yourself, it's the family. And so you yourself are not even full, you're not even a whole until you're a part of a family, until you're married and you have kids. So it's a tripartite individual. That's terribly interesting. And it also, it also makes sense then, at another level, I've always wondered, why is it that grand

[41:07] If it's the case that you're not

[41:31] whole until you you have your own family then in some sense even if i have my family my family is still not whole until my son or daughter has a family because they're still not an individual and also in some sense this means while you're a baby you're more of an individual than you are as an adult because when you're an adult you then have the responsibility of having responsibility yes yes being a family but when you're a kid you're not so your your whole are as a family when you have a child than when you do when you have an aimless

[42:02] Entity just living in your house. And it also reminded me of the of the Jewish symbol of the Star of David, which are interlocked triangles, because if that's the case in the individual web, the cosmos is net with these triangles. So the tripartite mother, father, children, but then the child is also part of its own triangle and so on. So you get this. The mathematician would say a simplicial decomposition, which is like a triangulation.

[42:32] But it's more than that because it's an interlocking triangulation. Hear that sound?

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[43:54] I've heard theories about Christianity or Christ creating the individual as we speak and that

[44:22] Before that, we didn't even have a conception of an individual, let's say. So in ancient Rome, like you say, you wouldn't have the individual, you'd have actually the family. And in Egypt, I did one of my papers about this. Well, you have a lot of words for soul, so that's a bit of a tricky one. But normal people wouldn't have that. Only the king would have a soul. Only the king would be an individual. And then as the time progresses in the Middle Kingdom, some rich people get

[44:52] to be an individual as well. And then it democratizes, that's the term they use. But this seems to contradict it what you say. It's interesting. Because it's so some people argue that that Christ actually brings the idea of an individual, especially as pertaining to property rights. But in a way, it's actually, it's actually not that at all. And I think people experience that in their lives when they

[45:21] Yeah, I don't know what to think about that because then it's odd to think that people before Jesus had no soul, but then Jesus brought to them souls so that they can be. I don't know how to make sense of that. But by the way,

[45:48] Hello, dear friends, my name is Lucas and today I had the absolute pleasure of hosting Kurt Jaimungal on this channel. Kurt is a filmmaker and host of the Theories of Everything channel. This channel will be familiar to a lot of you, but if it isn't, please check it down below. I will say beforehand, my internet connection was a little bit unstable near the end, so I had to edit out just a little bit of footage, but overall I think it gels pretty well.

[46:13] I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. For me, it was one of my all-time favorites. I can already say that with certainty. Kurt is one of the most authentic people I've ever met. So please enjoy. Recording in progress, it's said. So, okay. There we go. I'm going to keep that in. That's beautiful. Okay. Welcome back to the channel guys. I'm joined here by Kurt Jaimongo. It's an absolute honor to have you. Thank you for coming on, Kurt.

[46:42] Thank you so much, Lucas. I appreciate that. I've been following your channel for a couple of years. And I don't think I have the exact capacity to keep up with all your episodes. But sometimes there's a more philosophical one that's a bit less hard physics or hard mathematics. And then I just I can listen to them. I'll repeat and keep finding new insights. So I think you're doing a wonderful job at that. Man, you sound almost exactly like Ryan Gosling.

[47:11] Oh, has anyone ever told you that? No, but I like his voice. OK. Yeah. If anyone's listening, just close your eyes and picture Ryan Gosling. And it's almost like how you look anyhow. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that. I wanted to start with the question I ask a lot of my guests, and that is about your childhood. And I'd like to know what that was like if you want to share some of that. Yeah, I was a regular. Well, I wasn't the.

[47:40] Popular kid nor an unpopular kid. I was I didn't have plenty of pressure from my parents to do any to go into any field. Though when I was young, my dad did teach me chess, like hardcore. I was like, since I was three years older, so and took me to chess tournaments.

[48:04] taught me math, high level math when I was smaller. And so that framed me in an analytical way, a logical way. Never liked to do projects with my hands. I don't care about woodworking. I don't care about fixing around the house like plumbing. I don't care about any of that. I like puzzles. I like to think. And that's always been with me. Yeah, I would I

[48:34] Yeah. Anything else? What in particular do you want to know about my childhood? Cause I can go on for hours. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand. I'll think about what is relevant already. This is very telling for me. It's the way it shapes your mind because I contacted you initially saying that I like the way your mind works because it's quite different for me. I'm not able to go into that conceptual space as deeply as you are, I think. And I like to be also a bit more embodied. Um,

[49:04] But yeah, sometimes I've heard glimpses of you in your childhood thinking about about God, for example, or that you that you maybe decide. I think you decided that you decided at some point that you think God doesn't exist because you had a certain thing that maybe your brother said to you. Were you like as a child, were you thinking about these deeper questions you're tackling right now already? Or were you just more of a kid that thought about school and just normal things? Well, when I was eight, I started to think about that.

[49:34] So when I was eight, I remember asking my brother about. How could the universe have come into existence? Why something rather than nothing? And for some reason, that was the last linchpin of God in my life. And my brother had said, as he was studying physics at the time, he said he told me about quantum fluctuations, and I'm old enough now to know that that's not actually an explanation. But at the time I thought it was. And so I thought I had the last piece of the puzzle. I remember.

[50:04] Laying in my bed and staring at the ceiling and thinking, okay, then not only does there not need to be God, but if there's no need to be a God and somehow there isn't a God. And ever since then, I became this this whippersnapping, pretentious, orgyllous young man with a superiority complex over anyone who was cretinous enough to believe in

[50:33] in so-called religion or follow so-called, especially institutional religion, because isn't it obvious? Like all institutions are corrupt. Yes. Yeah. As if you're not corrupt, as if I'm not corrupt, as if, as if, yeah. As if I'm not more corrupt, like way more well. And as if there's not far more good in other organizations and other places than I think in the same way that I underestimate my own

[51:02] Maliciousness. I underestimate the the goodness in others or the goodness in in other places. Yeah, that brings true to me as well. I had a similar journey of getting to that realization. Actually, today is funny story. I live in in The Hague, which is like the political capital of the of the Netherlands, let's say. And

[51:31] In my teenage years, I got more and more suspicious of politicians and that in general. And today I saw the prime minister, we used to be prime minister, at least, and he was just in a bookshop, you know, just picking out some books, just launching around. And I looked at that guy. And I wanted to speak to him just to say hi, whatever. And but he left quite shortly after. And I was like, this is a normal, normal dude. That was the prime minister, he said? Yeah.

[51:56] And I think he's got, he's got goodness in him regardless. I'm, I'm sure of that actually. And it made it harder for me to be that suspicious self or that, that self that, that seeks corruption and others. And that's something I'm generally trying to do less of because I'm seeing how it is unproductive for me to, to view people as corrupt or institutions for that matter. And I like that you're critical of yourself as well in the other way.

[52:26] I think it's extremely helpful and I think it shows in your case that you work on that. So, yeah. Well, I have a policy in myself to assume maliciousness, selfishness or indolence. So like laziness rather than any goodness in myself. And there are many, many examples in my life of that. One that comes to mind, I think I've said this before,

[52:55] This one time I was washing the dishes that my sister's house. And she came home and then she was like, oh, why are you washing the dishes? And I said, well, I wanted you to. I didn't want you to come home to a dirty place, something like that. But then I was analyzing myself like that stuff doesn't feel right. It just didn't it didn't jive exactly and.

[53:14] And I realized the reason I was washing the dishes was because I had known she was coming home around then. So I want her to see me washing the dishes. She thinks I'm someone who helps clean up not only that so that she can have evidence. OK, Kurt cleans, but furthermore, so that she can clean something else that I don't so that I don't have to clean. So I can say, look, I'm cleaning up. I want you to do so and so. But all of that's under the surface. And it took some examination for me to to see that that tiny

[53:45] Tiny situation had revealed such like a Pandora's box of foolishness on my part. Yeah, and folly. Does that then not translate to other people in your case? Because you say you do the opposite with what I think you said institutions. Do you know I can distrust myself and trust others. So I think that's a great policy. Because I distrust breeds mistrust breeds mistrust. And I

[54:13] And there's some game theoretic arguments about tit for tat and like, yes, so yes, I'm sure you're aware, okay, that you should start off with a policy of trust, and then you amend it when there's evidence, but you start off by opening your hand and allowing others to snap it. And then even afterward, even after you've been burned, that the correct path is to still put your hand forward and say, I know that you've hurt me. I know that I can get hurt again, but I'm willing to pay that price.

[54:43] Did it take long for you to be able to trust people or were you already trusting as a child or was it something that came and went? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I wouldn't say it's something that personally, I don't say that I trust people. I work on trusting. I don't think I trust enough.

[55:15] I also I don't like this phrase trust, but verify that's something that came to mind. Yes, that's the bit. I'm sure you've heard that. Yes. Okay, because trust, but verify is a contradiction. Like unless I don't unless they have some other definition of trust. How do you mean something that sounds because if you trust, why would you verify? So let's say you say four times four to the power of six is 4000, then I can trust you. Or I can verify that and say it's 4096. So

[55:44] I can trust what you're saying or I can verify what you're saying, but they're not entirely like. If I trusted what if I trust my computer, I don't verify it, I don't understand what the difference is. OK, no, I see what the big corner say is they say don't trust. But yes, OK, yes, OK. Don't trust, but verify. Yeah, that's what they do because of the third party element. OK, that makes sense. And you're told that were your parents religious at all?

[56:15] So my dad was Hindu, I believe, before he got married and my mom was Muslim before she got married. And then somehow around the time of them getting united, they became Christian. So my dad and my mom are to this day Christian and I was raised Christian. Just a non denominational Christian. Yes. OK. Did you part from that at all? Yeah, when I was eight.

[56:45] Okay, that was like definite. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I, I've departed quite heavily from that since I was eight, to the point of attacking it and feeling like I was I was in this sounds like a funny choice of word, but holier than it. Yeah, I've been through that.

[57:15] I remember thinking because there's Pascal's wager. I remember thinking from a young age, that's a foolish wager, because if I was God, I would punish people who believed because they're just believing out of nonsense. And I would be the rational God who would reward those who didn't believe in me. Yeah, I remember saying that to my dad. He just he almost cried. I feel so sorry for you, son. Something like that. I think.

[57:44] I'd like to speak a bit about. Your. Relationship to your wife, I think it's always very wonderful to hear you speak about her. Can you tell me how you how you met her? Yeah, she was my stylist, my hairstylist, so seriously, yeah. That's why many people why your hair so good thing like yeah, yeah, they'll say you're great here and almost every like hopefully they don't say almost every but every every episode and

[58:14] Yeah, it's because my wife. You started yourself now before before you go. I styled myself, but she cuts it. She makes sure that it's fresh. Do you do often? Do I get my hair cut often? Yeah, I get my hair cut fairly often. Too much for her, actually, because it should. OK, that's good. See, there's this phrase that if you want to be.

[58:43] Carl Jung was asked about Nietzsche. Why is it that Nietzsche fell prey to suicide and psychosis? And Carl said that Nietzsche had no ground. And so it was just, it was just all air and you need both. Otherwise you're like the guy from up

[59:11] Just with balloons floating about with no home even. So. So for me, I have my conservative aspects or that I work at the same time, like I have a regiment schedule, I eat fairly much, pretty much the same. I try to go to sleep at the same time, although I have extreme problems, man, like we can talk about that.

[59:40] For those who don't know me and Lucas had this podcast scheduled yesterday and. I have problems sleeping like like you wouldn't believe it wastes hours and hours and hours like like I think that if I could get my sleep sorted out, I could be twice as productive and. And I'm already like I already work hard like I can work twice as hard or do twice as much.

[60:05] I laid in bed when I sent you that message, Lucas. People don't know I sent Lucas a message at 3 a.m. I don't know if it was I was irascible and it could have been angry. I apologize if I said no, no, no. I don't know what I'm saying and when I'm in that state, I was just I sent a message also to my guy who helps with the marketing of this of this podcast as well. I think I was criticizing him. I was almost I don't swear. Even Lucas, like I don't swear. I think I almost warned him.

[60:34] I was so upset. I'm laying in bed for eight hours. Yes. Eight hours laying in bed is such a waste of time. My doctor said don't lay in bed for more than a half hour to one hour. If you're not sleeping, get up and go and do something. Yeah. Because otherwise you associate your bed with not sleep. I've heard that. Yeah. And so I've associated my bed with not sleep for way too long. Like staying and staying awake for four hours is common to me. Like that's every night. Well, anyhow, and I got this eight sleep recently.

[61:04] So we'll see how that goes. And that night when I texted you, my eight sleep broke in the middle of the night and I was so upset because I couldn't get the water to refill it. There's something that didn't break, but it needed refilling of water. And anyhow, I apologize for whatever I said to you. I think it was a beautiful message, actually, because I was I was just reading it and I was like, this is how Kurt thinks. This is your I just heard the inner mother like

[61:31] It was various, but I felt bad mostly for you. For me, it's not a problem. I'm a student. I don't have a busy schedule like you do, so I'm all good. But study. Egyptology. Oh, wonderful. I was extremely fascinated. I memorized all the like almost all the Egyptian gods at one point. Oh, I barely know. I've forgotten that. Yeah, it was just for fun. Yeah, there's a God for so much. There was there's a crocodile God.

[62:01] Oh, I wish I had. I wish I had this in my memory. There's a God. There was a God for bartering. I'm sure there is. If they have a God for everything, you know, they've got for when someone cuts you off in traffic and doesn't give you. Yeah, I think that would. What do you actually make of that? What are gods to you? Actually, I guess this is the job for faking and you get really for faking an answer. He said that they are transjective.

[62:32] You know, that's the type of stuff he would say. Yeah, gods are. I don't know. Firstly, I don't know. I. It could be said that what gods are are gods are. Are yeah, this will correct. Checking the grammar there, but they are.

[63:00] Like if you have a value, what you should have is one overarching value, so that all of your goals, your sub goals are united, akin to an organization that is working toward one, one aspect or yes, one land and, and gods are when it's no, it's not one, you're working on two or three or four different lanes. And it's my understanding of religion that across time, you see

[63:27] a collapsing of multi gods to more and more single gods, except in the case of Christianity, those the first time that it had broken that and said, what is one is actually three, but then it didn't go from three to 10 to 20. Yes, go like that. I understand. Although in some ways you can think of Catholicism as as adopting that a bit with with the people, the statues that they pray to, but it's not exactly the same. So anyhow,

[63:56] The gods can be can be akin to fractionated values or contradictory values, indicative of someone who is not united or individuated. But that just means it's all of us that we all worship gods because none of us are are these perfect, individuated beings, not even Jung, not even Carl Jung. OK, I actually did research about this. My thesis is about. A specific text. Theological texts from Egypt where

[64:26] Seemingly, they speak of one God is the ultimate God and all gods are manifestations of this God. And so. It's not exactly monotheism, what they have there. Maybe they call it henna theism, I don't know if you're familiar with henna theism is belief in one god without denying the others. Yes, yes, so that they still exist and it's interesting because it it happens multiple times in Egyptian history and Egyptian texts and they all seem completely contradictory.

[64:56] It's like this God is the one and then that God is the upper God. And I'm just reading this through my Christian lens, I guess, or Western lens. How can you reconcile these realities? And apparently it didn't matter because they didn't think about false or correct like we do. We have a false or correct religion. If you're a religious person, your religion is correct. If it's one of the three Western ones. But for them, it wasn't like that. It was

[65:27] It was more about sacred or profane, I guess. But I don't want to drift off and talk about that. That's terribly interesting. Terribly interesting. I know I. Can you tell me more? Can I tell you more? Well, what's really cool about this specific God that in this specific document is being called the one is that. His name means hiddenness or something like that, and it's yeah,

[65:57] So his name is Amun, maybe you've heard it, and it comes from the verb iman, which means to hide or to conceal. And one of the reasons why they put him on top is because he doesn't have a name, because when you have a name, you hold power over someone. And so I read this text, I read it for the first time, I basically went to my supervisor being like, I'm not sure what I want to do. But I have these interests, and I spoke about Rene Girard, and I spoke about sacrifice, and I spoke about

[66:27] Religion and he gave me this text and I started reading and I was like, this is I kind of agree with it. You know, I started reading. I was like, this very much aligns with the way I think about it because I call myself a Christian and perhaps because I don't feel my faith is exclusive. Maybe I'm not allowed to wear that title, but to me, I understand the idea of other gods existing.

[66:57] To me, I see people in my daily life, worshiping other gods. That's normal every day happening for me. So I don't reject their existence. And I know Jonathan project their sacredness. I reject putting them on top. I reject. Yeah, then would they be more profane those gods or those people who worship the gods? I guess.

[67:26] if your highest god is not god in his totality then you are going to be i don't i don't really like the word profane but you're going to be less aligned i guess as you see that in people a lot when their highest god is money or lust i guess that results in a misalignment that's i guess i would view it i don't think those

[67:57] But with lust, it's hard to argue for lust in many cases as a good thing. But for example, Egypt is a very interesting, interesting example. You know, Seth, as a God, yeah, yeah, he is as Peterson describes his chaos. And a lot of people instantly if Peterson even links him to the devil, which I think is pretty funny, because he's like set and then he looks at the root and he thinks that Satan was possible. But

[68:24] The Egyptians didn't see him as bad necessarily. You could also channel him, channel chaos. When you go to war, maybe you channel Seth. Maybe Seth is necessary to banish out other gods. When the Egyptians have like snakes on their heads, the snakes are kind of dangerous and bad, but also they protect. So it's something like that. But yeah. Trying to remember this interview is about you, so I'd like to.

[68:53] Okay, you can do that. You can do that. This is a question I've been meaning to ask you because you already pulled up Carl Jung and Nietzsche and I was wondering what it is that grounds you because you are someone that thinks a lot and deeply and I've been in those spaces a little bit in my life and I realized that

[69:24] For me, I need really something embodied and I know that you don't as a kid, you told me you don't like those embodied type of things. You didn't like woodworking. You don't like working on things for me. Those are the exact things that get me out. So is there something that grounds you?

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[70:15] Well, math grounds me. I know that's odd, but math has saved me by psychologically saved me quite a few times because some of the topics that are on the Toe Channel are quite heavy, quite, quite heavy and can send you or send me especially to a place where it's not a pleasant place at all. And math is so abstract that it's it's a reprieve from the tyranny of the concrete.

[70:46] Now, also what grounds me is my wife, of course, my wife, like most of all my wife, spending time with her is something that's important to me. We have what are called us days, which are just like date days where we just go, we walk and walk and bike and, and we rarely eat at a restaurant. We'll take bites and walk because we love to just walk and talk. We don't want to just sit around and wait for food. So that grounds me. And that's important to me. I

[71:16] Ensure that there's a part of my week. We both ensure there's a part of our week that. We can do that with one another, at least one, at least one day a week. So that grounds me. I go to the gym and I don't listen to anything when I'm at the gym, no music, no podcasts. And I just, but I think and so I use it to think, but it grounds me as well.

[71:47] So I was thinking, as you said, you like to be embodied. And I I've recently started taking up swimming lessons. Because I don't I know how to swim, but barely doesn't grow me. I was thinking, does it ground me? No, no. It flounders me. Oh, my gosh, it's a frightening experience. Yeah, but I'm surprised. I'm way better at it than I thought. Like I made tremendous progress on my first my first lesson. And I said, good lesson, like I can float on my back. I never thought I could. And

[72:18] And I thought I would just sink and she was showing me, OK, even if you do sink, here's what you do is it's actually now that I think about it is metaphorically, it may save me later because I know there are certain tools that you can gain from the physical world that can be applied to the spiritual one and vice versa. And so I think this is going to be one of the first instances where I take something that's that's physical. And. I find the connection to the numinous

[72:49] OK, that's a good answer. I'm happy you you have some some practices like that. You enjoyed the gym. I I hate it and I love it at the same time, like I almost always dread that I have to go, but I go. And toward the end of the workout, I'm just like I just, for instance, before we started speaking, I came back from the gym recently and makes me out of breath.

[73:17] Makes me feel sometimes I feel like I want to throw up. It depends on how hard I work out. But. I feel great, like fantastic afterward, and especially Lucas, like. I love to eat, I love to eat, I love to pick out like I'm a I'm someone who. There's a feast and famine, there's a phrase called feast and famine, so you fast and then you just overeat. I'm somewhat like that, somewhat like that, like surf it, so I

[73:46] gorge myself way past the point of comfort. But I just love it. And I have to work out in order to make sure that that's somewhat healthy and not overly unhealthy. Yeah, I recognize that. And I would so much now. Yeah, I used to do fasting. And I ate once a day. Yeah, night. It really helped me with my focus during the day. But then

[74:14] At night, I would go crazy at a while. I just make pancakes every day. That was on. It was also because you eat once a day, you have to eat that much actually to maintain your weight. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, especially if you're building muscle, it's not great to do intermittent fasting. It's difficult. Yes, I experienced that. Yeah. I think I only recently found that out. So I've been intermittent fasting for

[74:42] Maybe three years or so. And I was wondering, I'm like, man, I'm going to the gym all the time. Like, I'm, I'm fit. But why aren't I gaining more muscle like I'm gaining it so extremely slowly. Yeah. And then I believe I watched some Peter Attia video. I had the exact same. Right. You know what's pernicious about this? This is what's pernicious about this. Peter Attia, my friend, he told me he's like,

[75:07] You got to do fast thing you do once a day, right? So I listen to peers. I was into Huberman before he had his podcast. I just always followed what they were doing. Peter T was eating once a day for years. And then all of a sudden, Peter T changes his mind and he starts building muscle like a maniac. He's like, you don't it's not good to eat once a day or to do that for four muscles. So I had the exact same journey. And then I just stopped. And I know there's. Yeah, I heard that there's well, I saw that there's an article that came out either

[75:36] today or within the week that said that intermittent fasting is associated with a 91% increased risk of cardiovascular damage or heart attacks or whatever maybe I don't think that's the case I find when you look into studies like that they it doesn't it doesn't work out but and it was it was a correlation so the cause could be that when you intermittent when you fast intermittently

[76:04] You have less lean mass, lean, you have less muscle, and the less muscle is worse for you. Systemically. Yes, I understand that can lead to the higher heart attack. I mean, it could be such a loose connection like that. Yeah. But intermittent fasting is great for. For. Well, quote unquote autophagy, yes. And lowering risks of cancer and so on. So there are benefits.

[76:34] I never found it increased focus, though. I never found anything like Lucas Man. I have tried nootropics of all sorts. I never found that anything increases my focus or my my quickness. I found that plenty can dull it like ADHD medication would dull me. Yes. I know many people are like, oh, I can't wait to try to do whatever it is. I'm stimulant. I've never found anything to

[77:02] It's more like when you say you found things that make it worse and fasting for me is one of the ways of doing something that doesn't make it worse because then I don't eat

[77:28] I think about food. Well, I used to think about food all the time, which is why I started the fasting that that's what removed my focus. Fasting increased my focus by me not having to think about food, but it's not. I don't know if it's a cognitive enhancer. It's just a fault. Well, when I did my first four day fast, I saw I realized how much time I spent not only thinking about food, but preparing food or

[77:56] Going to out to eat or cooking or whatever, maybe. And then you have so much more time. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. I was also single at the time. So life was just read for the whole day. That's I don't I don't want those times anymore, but there was something beautiful about them. Are you living with your partner now? Yes. Yes, we're engaged. So

[78:22] Oh, wonderful. Congratulations. Thank you, man. Thank you. It's kind of a weird thing to do these days. Are you frightened? Are you afraid? Are you exhilarated? I feel that it's a natural progression. And I decided to want to get married when I was 19. And so being 22 now, it doesn't feel weird.

[78:49] I'm happy and I'm excited to do it and I'm excited to see everyone happy and my family happy and her happy and to to take that commitment to another level. But it feels for the both of us more like showing it to the other world than the commitment was already there. It's now just. Yeah, I guess sharing it. So that's what I feel about it. Yeah, no. But you got married. That's also. Yeah.

[79:18] It's quite a, I don't know, it feels, it feels kind of weird to do these days, but I'm, I'm happy to do it. I think it's, it's important. So speaking of individuation and speaking about what you had mentioned as currently we think about truth as, I'm sorry, we think about religions as true or not true.

[79:45] We've gotten into this frame since the enlightenment and we think of truth as facts, facts that are disclosed to me. To me, as the person, as the individual, I was speaking to my friend Matthew. I'm not sure if you know him and I could tell you his last name affair, because I'm unsure if he's comfortable with me sharing his information, but. Matthew was saying that in Christianity. The. Well, ever since.

[80:14] Ever since Kant formally separated the transcendental, so truth, beauty, and love, which used to be tied together, that Marx and Nietzsche came in and said, okay, what truth is, is this disclosure of facts and that you'll always be suspicious and feel like they're hidden

▶ View Full JSON Data (Word-Level Timestamps)

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      "text": " Listen up people, over the years I've learned how important hydration is in my workouts and everyday life. It's the key to helping my body move, recover and just have a good time when I'm exercising and staying active. Things go even better when I'm well hydrated before I even start moving."
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      "text": " This is a special episode where someone else interviewed me, and I'm mirroring it here, as many people seem to enjoy the interviews of me for whatever reason. Unfortunately here, with the audio version, you don't get to see my lustrous and dashing good looks. However, you can click the URL in the description for the video version."
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      "text": " Lucas Voss, a university scholar of ancient Egypt, interviewed me for his channel called Lucas Voss. He asked me about love, truth, God, my childhood, faith, and Carl Jung. I hope you enjoy it and ensure that you check out his channel, which is again linked in the description. Hello, dear friends. My name is Lucas and today I had the absolute pleasure of hosting Kurt Jaimungal on this channel. Kurt is a filmmaker and host of the Theories of Everything channel."
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      "text": " So, okay, there we go. I'm going to keep that in. That's beautiful. Okay. Welcome back to the channel guys. I'm joined here by Kurt Jemongo. It's an absolute honor to have you. Thank you for coming on Kurt. Thank you so much, Lucas. I appreciate that. I've been following your channel for a couple of years. And I don't think I have the exact capacity to keep up with all your episodes. But sometimes there's a more philosophical one that's a bit less hard physics or hard mathematics. And then"
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      "text": " I just, I can listen to them on repeat and keep finding new insights. So I think you're doing a wonderful job at that. Man, you sound almost exactly like Ryan Gosling. Oh, has anyone ever told you that? No, but I like his voice. Okay. Yeah. If anyone's listening, just close your eyes and picture Ryan Gosling. And that's almost like how you look anyhow. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that."
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      "text": " I wanted to start with the question I ask a lot of my guests and that is about your childhood and I'd like to know what that was like if you want to to share some of that. Yeah, I was a regular. Well, I wasn't."
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      "text": " Popular kid nor an unpopular kid. I was I didn't have plenty of pressure from my parents to do any to go into any field. Though when I was young, my dad did teach me chess, like hardcore. I was like, since I was three years older, so and took me to chess tournaments."
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      "text": " Yeah, I would, uh, I"
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      "text": " Yeah. Anything else? What in particular do you want to know about my childhood? Cause I can go on for hours. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand. I'll think about what is relevant already. This is very telling for me. It's the way it shapes your mind because I contacted you initially saying that I like the way your mind works because it's quite different for me. I'm not able to go into that conceptual space as deeply as you are, I think. And I like to be also a bit more embodied. Um,"
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      "text": " But yeah, sometimes I've heard glimpses of you in your childhood thinking about about God, for example, or that you that you maybe decide. I think you decided that you decided at some point that you think God doesn't exist because you had a certain thing that maybe your brother said to you. Were you like as a child, were you thinking about these deeper questions you're tackling right now already? Or were you just more of a kid that thought about school and just normal things? Well, when I was eight, I started to think about that."
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      "text": " So when I was eight, I remember asking my brother about. How could the universe have come into existence? Why something rather than nothing? And for some reason, that was the last linchpin of God in my life. And my brother had said, as he was studying physics at the time, he said he told me about quantum fluctuations. And I'm old enough now to know that that's not actually an explanation. But at the time I thought it was. And so I thought I had the last piece of the puzzle. I remember."
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      "text": " Laying in my bed and staring at the ceiling and thinking, okay, then not only does there not need to be God, but if there's no need to be a God and somehow there isn't a God. And ever since then, I became this this whippersnapping, pretentious, orgyllous young man with a superiority complex over anyone who was cretinous enough to believe in"
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      "text": " in so called religion, or follow so called in especially institutional religion, because isn't it obvious, like, all institutions are corrupt? Yes. Yeah, as if you're not corrupt, as if I'm not corrupt, as if that's if, yeah. As if I'm not more corrupt, like way more well. And as if there's not far more good in other organizations and other places than I think, in the same way that I underestimate my own"
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      "start_time": 504.292,
      "text": " Maliciousness, I underestimate the the goodness in others or the goodness in in other places. Yeah, that brings true to me as well. I had a similar journey of getting to that realization. Actually, today is funny story. I live in in The Hague, which is like the political capital of the of the Netherlands, let's say. And"
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      "text": " In my teenage years, I got more and more suspicious of politicians and that in general. And today I saw the prime minister, we used to be prime minister, at least, and he was just in a bookshop, you know, just picking out some books, just launching around. And I looked at that guy. And I wanted to speak to him just to say hi, whatever. And but he left quite shortly after. And I was like, this is a normal, normal dude. That was the prime minister, he said? Yeah."
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      "text": " And I think he's got, he's got goodness in him regardless. I'm, I'm sure of that actually. And it made it harder for me to be that suspicious self or that, that self that, that seeks corruption and others. And that's something I'm generally trying to do less of because I'm seeing how it is unproductive for me to, to view people as corrupt or institutions for that matter. And I like that you're critical of yourself as well in the other way."
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      "text": " I think it's extremely helpful and I think it shows in your case that you work on that. So, yeah. Well, I have a policy in myself to assume maliciousness, selfishness or indolence. So like laziness rather than any goodness in myself. And there are many, many examples in my life of that. One that comes to mind, I think I've said this before,"
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      "start_time": 617.005,
      "text": " This one time I was washing the dishes at my sister's house. And she came home and then she was like, Oh, why are you washing the dishes? And I said, Well, I wanted you to I didn't want you to come home to a dirty place, something like that. But then I was analyzing myself like that stuff doesn't feel right. It just didn't it didn't jive exactly. And"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 666.459,
      "index": 26,
      "start_time": 636.596,
      "text": " And I realized the reason I was washing the dishes was because I had known she was coming home around then. So I want her to see me washing the dishes. She thinks I'm someone who helps clean up not only that so that she can have evidence. OK, Kurt cleans, but furthermore, so that she can clean something else that I don't so that I don't have to clean. So I can say, look, I'm cleaning up. I want you to do so and so. But all of that's under the surface. And it took some examination for me to to see that that tiny"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 694.292,
      "index": 27,
      "start_time": 667.056,
      "text": " Tiny situation had revealed such like a Pandora's box of foolishness on my part. Yeah. And folly. Does that then not translate to other people in your case? Because you say you do the opposite with what I think you said institutions. Do you know I can distrust myself and trust others. So I think that's a great policy. Because I distrust breeds mistrust breeds mistrust. And I"
    },
    {
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      "start_time": 694.94,
      "text": " And there's some game theoretic arguments about tit for tat and like, yes, so yes, I'm sure you're aware, okay, that you should start off with a policy of trust, and then you amend it when there's evidence, but you start off by opening your hand and allowing others to snap it. And then even afterward, even after you've been burned, that the correct path is to still put your hand forward and say, I know that you've hurt me. I know that I can get hurt again, but I'm willing to pay that price. Well,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 753.08,
      "index": 29,
      "start_time": 725.162,
      "text": " Did it take long for you to be able to trust people or were you already trusting as a child or was it something that came and went? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I wouldn't say it's something that personally, I don't say that I trust people. I work on trusting. I don't think I trust enough."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 784.872,
      "index": 30,
      "start_time": 757.09,
      "text": " I also I don't like this phrase trust, but verify that's something that came to mind. Yes, that's the big I'm sure you've heard that. Yes. Okay, because trust but verify is a contradiction. Like unless I don't unless they have some other definition of trust. How do you mean something that sounds because if you trust, why would you verify? So let's say you say four times four to the power of six is 4000, then I can trust you. Or I can verify that and say it's 4096. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 815.794,
      "index": 31,
      "start_time": 786.288,
      "text": " I can trust what you're saying or I can verify what you're saying, but they're not entirely like. If I trusted what if I trust my computer, I don't verify it, I don't understand what the difference is. OK, no, I see what the big corner say is they say don't trust. But yes, OK, yes, OK. Don't trust, but verify. Yeah, that's what they do because of the third party element. OK, that makes sense. And you're told that were your parents religious at all?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 845.998,
      "index": 32,
      "start_time": 817.381,
      "text": " So my dad was Hindu, I believe, before he got married and my mom was Muslim before she got married. And then somehow around the time of them getting united, they became Christian. So my dad and my mom are to this day Christian and I was raised Christian. Just a non denominational Christian. Yes. OK. Did you part from that at all? Yeah, when I was eight,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 875.623,
      "index": 33,
      "start_time": 846.852,
      "text": " Okay, that was like definite. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I, I've departed quite heavily from that since I was eight, to the point of attacking it and feeling like I was I was in this sounds like a funny choice of word, but holier than it. Yeah, I've been through that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 904.974,
      "index": 34,
      "start_time": 877.227,
      "text": " I remember thinking because there's Pascal's wager. I remember thinking from a young age that the foolish wager, because if I was God, I would punish people who believed because they're just believing out of nonsense. And I would be the rational God who would reward those who didn't believe in me. Yeah, I remember saying that to my dad. He just he almost cried. I feel so sorry for you, son. Something like that. I think."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 935.742,
      "index": 35,
      "start_time": 905.964,
      "text": " I'd like to speak a bit about your relationship to your wife. I think it's always very wonderful to hear you speak about her. Can you tell me how you how you met her? Yeah, she was my stylist, my hairstylist, so seriously. Yeah, that's why many people why your hair is so good. Yeah, yeah, they'll say you have great hair and almost every like hopefully they don't say almost every but every every episode and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 964.275,
      "index": 36,
      "start_time": 936.22,
      "text": " Yeah, it's because my wife. You started yourself now before before you go. I styled myself, but she cuts it. She makes sure that it's fresh. Do you do often? Do I get my hair cut often? Yeah, I get my hair cut fairly often. Too much for her, actually, is because it should. OK, that's good. See, there's this phrase that if you want to be."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 993.336,
      "index": 37,
      "start_time": 965.299,
      "text": " liberal or creative, then you need to be conservative in every aspect of your life, other than where you want to be creative. And the reason is that Carl Jung was asked about Nietzsche. Why is it that Nietzsche fell prey to suicide and psychosis? And Carl said that Nietzsche had no ground. And so it was just it was just all air and you need both. Otherwise, you're like the guy from up"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1023.626,
      "index": 38,
      "start_time": 993.78,
      "text": " Just with balloons floating about with no home even. So. So for me, I have my conservative aspects or that I work at the same time, like I have a regiment schedule, I eat fairly much, pretty much the same. I try to go to sleep at the same time, although I have extreme problems, man, like we can talk about that for those who don't know."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1047.671,
      "index": 39,
      "start_time": 1023.814,
      "text": " Me and Lucas had this podcast scheduled yesterday and I have problems sleeping like like you wouldn't believe it wastes hours and hours and hours like like I think that if I could get my sleep sorted out, I could be twice as productive and and I'm already like I already work hard like I can work twice as hard and do twice as much."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1075.589,
      "index": 40,
      "start_time": 1047.773,
      "text": " I laid in bed when I sent you that message, Lucas. People don't know I sent Lucas a message at 3 a.m. I don't know if it was I was irascible and it could have been angry. I apologize if I said no, no, no. I don't know what I'm saying and when I'm in that state, I was just I sent a message also to my guy who helps with the marketing of this of this podcast as well. I think I was criticizing him. I was almost I don't swear even Lucas, like I don't swear. I think I almost warned him."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1105.742,
      "index": 41,
      "start_time": 1076.254,
      "text": " I was so upset. I'm laying in bed for eight hours. Yes, eight hours laying in bed is such a waste of time. My doctor said don't lay in bed for more than a half hour to one hour. If you're not sleeping, get up and go and do something. Yeah, because otherwise you associate your bed with not sleep. I've heard that. Yeah. And so I've associated my bed with not sleep for way too long. Like staying and staying awake for four hours is common to me. Like that's every night. Well, anyhow, and I got this eight sleep recently."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1132.654,
      "index": 42,
      "start_time": 1106.118,
      "text": " So we'll see how that goes. And that night when I texted you, my eight sleep broke in the middle of the night and I was so upset because I couldn't get the water to refill it. There's something that didn't break, but it needed refilling of water. And anyhow, I apologize for whatever I said to you. I think it was a beautiful message, actually, because I was I was just reading it and I was like, this is how Kurt thinks. This is your I just heard the inner mother like"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1163.439,
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      "start_time": 1133.439,
      "text": " It was various, but I felt bad mostly for you. For me, it's not a problem. I'm a student. I don't have a busy schedule like you do, so I'm all good. But study Egyptology. Oh, wonderful. I was extremely fascinated. I memorize all the like almost all the Egyptian gods at one point. Oh, I barely know. I've forgotten that. Yeah, it was just for fun. Yeah, there's a god for so much. There was there's a crocodile god."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1192.79,
      "index": 44,
      "start_time": 1164.172,
      "text": " I wish I had. I wish I had this in my memory. There's a God. There was a God for bartering. I'm sure there is. If they have a God for everything, you know, they've got for when someone cuts you off in traffic and doesn't give you. Yeah, I think that would. What do you actually make of that? What are gods to you? Actually, I asked this to John for Fakie and he gave really for Fakie an answer. He said that they are transjective."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1219.497,
      "index": 45,
      "start_time": 1194.292,
      "text": " You know, that's the type of stuff he would say. Yeah, gods are. I don't know. Firstly, I don't know. I. It could be said that what gods are are gods are. Are yeah, this is correct. Checking the grammar there, but they are."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1248.148,
      "index": 46,
      "start_time": 1222.398,
      "text": " Like if you have a value, what you should have is one overarching value, so that all of your goals, your sub goals are united, akin to an organization that is working toward one, one aspect or one land and and gods are when it's no, it's not one, you're working on two or three or four different lanes. And it's my understanding of religion that across time, you see"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1277.875,
      "index": 47,
      "start_time": 1248.814,
      "text": " a collapsing of multi gods to more and more single gods, except in the case of Christianity, those the first time that it had broken that and said, what is one is actually three, but then it didn't go from three to 10 to 20. Yes, go like that. I understand. Although in some ways you can think of Catholicism as as adopting that a bit with with the people, the statues that they pray to, but it's not exactly the same. So anyhow,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1307.09,
      "index": 48,
      "start_time": 1278.524,
      "text": " The gods can be can be akin to fractionated values or contradictory values, indicative of someone who is not united or individuated. But that just means it's all of us that we all worship gods because none of us are are these perfect, individuated beings, not even Jung, not even Carl Jung. OK, I actually didn't research about this. My thesis is about. The specific text. Theological text from Egypt, where"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1337.841,
      "index": 49,
      "start_time": 1308.08,
      "text": " Seemingly they speak of one God is the ultimate God and all gods are manifestations of this God and so It's not exactly monotheism what they have there Maybe they call it henna theism. I don't know if you're familiar with henna theism is belief in one God without denying the others Yes, yes so that they still exist and it's interesting because it it happens multiple times in Egyptian history and Egyptian texts and they all seem completely contradictory"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1368.183,
      "index": 50,
      "start_time": 1338.729,
      "text": " It's like this God is the one and then that God is the upper God. And I'm just reading this through my Christian lens, I guess, or Western lens. How can you reconcile these realities? And apparently it didn't matter because they didn't think about false or correct like we do. We have a false or correct religion. If you're a religious person, your religion is correct. If it's one of the three Western ones. But for them, it wasn't like that. It was"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1398.404,
      "index": 51,
      "start_time": 1369.053,
      "text": " Well, what's really cool about this specific God that in this specific document is being called the one is that his name means hiddenness or something like that. And it's yeah."
    },
    {
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      "index": 52,
      "start_time": 1398.848,
      "text": " So his name is Amun, maybe you've heard it, and it comes from the verb iman, which means to hide or to conceal. And one of the reasons why they put him on top is because he doesn't have a name, because when you have a name, you hold power over someone. And so I read this text, I read it for the first time, I basically went to my supervisor being like, I'm not sure what I want to do. But I have these interests, and I spoke about Rene Girard, and I spoke about sacrifice, and I spoke about"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1457.329,
      "index": 53,
      "start_time": 1429.514,
      "text": " Religion and he gave me this text and I started reading and I was like, this is I kind of agree with it. You know, I started reading it was like this very much aligns with the way I think about it because I call myself a Christian and perhaps because I don't feel my faith is exclusive. Maybe I'm not allowed to wear that title, but to me, I understand the idea of other gods existing."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1488.046,
      "index": 54,
      "start_time": 1458.916,
      "text": " To me, I see people in my daily life, worshiping other gods. That's normal every day happening for me. So I don't reject their existence. And I know Jonathan, I reject their sacredness. I reject putting them on top. I reject. Yeah, then would they be more profane those gods or those people who worship the gods? I guess."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1518.114,
      "index": 55,
      "start_time": 1488.626,
      "text": " if your highest god is not god in his totality then you are going to be i don't i don't really like the word profane but you're going to be less aligned i guess as you see that in people a lot when their highest god is money or lust i guess that results in a misalignment that's i guess i would view it i don't think those"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1545.742,
      "index": 56,
      "start_time": 1519.394,
      "text": " Well, with lust, it's hard to argue for lust in many cases as a good thing. But it, for example, in Egypt is a very interesting, interesting example. You know, Seth, as a God, yeah, yeah, he is as Peterson describes his chaos. And a lot of people instantly, he Peterson even links him to the devil, which I think is pretty funny, because he's like set. And then he looks at the root and he thinks that Satan was possible. But"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1574.394,
      "index": 57,
      "start_time": 1546.425,
      "text": " The Egyptians didn't see him as bad necessarily. You could also channel him, channel chaos. When you go to war, maybe you channel Seth. Maybe Seth is necessary to banish out other gods. When the Egyptians have like snakes on their heads, the snakes are kind of dangerous and bad, but also they protect. So it's something like that. But yeah. Trying to remember this interview is about you, so I'd like to."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1605.23,
      "index": 58,
      "start_time": 1575.538,
      "text": " I tried to zoom out a bit, unless you have anything to add to that. But I have many questions which I'll ask you about later, either off air or toward the end. Okay, you can do that. You can do that. This is a question I've been meaning to ask you because you already pulled up Carl Jung and Nietzsche. And I was wondering what it is that grounds you because you are someone that thinks a lot and deeply. And I've been in those spaces a little bit in my life and I realized that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1620.043,
      "index": 59,
      "start_time": 1605.947,
      "text": " For me, I need really something embodied and I know that you don't as a kid, you told me you don't like those embodied type of things. You didn't like woodworking. You don't like working on things for me. Those are the exact things that get me out. So is there something that grounds you?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1649.497,
      "index": 60,
      "start_time": 1620.759,
      "text": " This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast? Smart move. Being financially savvy? Smart move. Another smart move? Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1688.507,
      "index": 61,
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      "text": " Well, math grounds me. I know that's odd, but math has saved me by psychologically saved me quite a few times because some of the topics that are on the Toe Channel are quite heavy, quite, quite heavy and can send you or send me especially to a place where it's not a pleasant place at all. And math is so abstract that it's it's a reprieve from the tyranny of the concrete."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1719.855,
      "index": 62,
      "start_time": 1689.991,
      "text": " Now, also what grounds me is my wife, of course, my wife, like most of all, my wife, spending time with her is something that's important to me. We have what are called us days, which are just like date days where we just go and we walk and walk and bike and and we rarely eat at a restaurant. We'll take bites and walk because we love to just walk and talk. We don't want to just sit around and wait for food. So that grounds me and that's important to me."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1748.626,
      "index": 63,
      "start_time": 1720.657,
      "text": " Ensure that there's a part of my week. We both ensure there's a part of our week that. We can do that with one another, at least one, at least one day a week. So that grounds me. I go to the gym and I don't listen to anything when I'm at the gym, no music, no podcasts. And I just, but I think and so I use it to think, but it grounds me as well."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1780.742,
      "index": 64,
      "start_time": 1751.647,
      "text": " So I was thinking, as you said, you like to be embodied. And I I've recently started taking up swimming lessons. Because I don't I know how to swim, but barely doesn't grow me. I was thinking, does it ground me? No, no. It flounders me. Oh, my gosh, it's a frightening experience. Yeah, but I'm surprised. I'm way better at it than I thought. Like I made tremendous progress on my first my first lesson. And I said, that's good lesson. I can float on my back. I never thought I could. And"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1810.265,
      "index": 65,
      "start_time": 1782.039,
      "text": " And I thought I would just sink and she was showing me, OK, even if you do sink, here's what you do is it's actually now that I think about it is metaphorically, it may save me later because I know there are certain tools that you can gain from the physical world that can be applied to the spiritual one and vice versa. And so I think this is going to be one of the first instances where it takes something that's that's physical. And. I find the connection to the numinous"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1840.384,
      "index": 66,
      "start_time": 1812.756,
      "text": " OK, that's a good answer. I'm happy you you have some some practices like that. You enjoyed the gym. I I hate it and I love it at the same time, like I almost always dread that I have to go, but I go. And toward the end of the workout, I'm just like I just, for instance, before we started speaking, I came back from the gym recently and makes me out of breath."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1870.333,
      "index": 67,
      "start_time": 1840.811,
      "text": " Makes me feel sometimes I feel like I want to throw up. It depends on how hard I work out. But. I feel great, like fantastic afterward, and especially Lucas, like. I love to eat, I love to eat, I love to pick out like I'm a I'm someone who. There's a feast and famine, there's a phrase called feast and famine, so you fast and then you just overeat. I'm somewhat like that, somewhat like that, like surf it, so I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1897.381,
      "index": 68,
      "start_time": 1870.555,
      "text": " Gorge myself way past the point of. Of comfort, but I just love it and I have to work out in order to make sure that that's somewhat healthy and not overly unhealthy. Yeah, I recognize that. And I haven't so much now. Yeah, I used to do fasting and I ate once a day. Yeah, right. It really helped me with my focus during the day, but then."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1925.503,
      "index": 69,
      "start_time": 1897.756,
      "text": " At night, I would go crazy at a while. I just make pancakes every day. That was on. It was also because you eat once a day, you have to eat that much actually to maintain your weight. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, especially if you're building muscle, it's not great to do intermittent fasting. It's difficult. Yes, I experienced that. Yeah. I think I only recently found that out. So I've been intermittent fasting for"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1951.152,
      "index": 70,
      "start_time": 1925.828,
      "text": " Maybe three years or so. And I was wondering, I'm like, man, I'm going to the gym all the time. Like, I'm, I'm fit. But why aren't I gaining more muscle like I'm gaining it so extremely slowly? Yeah. And then I believe I watched some Peter Attia video. I had the exact same. Right. You know, what's pernicious about this? This is what's pernicious about this. Peter Attia, my friend, he told me he's like,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1979.77,
      "index": 71,
      "start_time": 1951.63,
      "text": " You got to do fast thing you do once a day, right? So I listen to peers. I was into Huberman before he had his podcast. I just always followed what they were doing. Peter T was eating once a day for years. And then all of a sudden, Peter T changes his mind and he starts building muscle like a maniac. He's like, you don't it's not good to eat once a day or to do that for four muscles. So I had the exact same journey. And then I just stopped. And I know there's. Yeah, I heard that there's well, I saw that there's an article that came out either"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2008.268,
      "index": 72,
      "start_time": 1980.299,
      "text": " today or within the week that said that intermittent fasting is associated with a 91% increased risk of cardiovascular damage or heart attacks or whatever maybe I don't think that's the case I find when you look into studies like that they it doesn't it doesn't work out but and it was it was a correlation so the cause could be that when you intermittent when you fast intermittently"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2038.456,
      "index": 73,
      "start_time": 2008.558,
      "text": " You have less lean mass, lean, you have less muscle, and the less muscle is worse for you. Systemically. Yes, I understand that can lead to the higher heart. I mean, it could be such a loose connection like that. Yeah. But intermittent fasting is great for. For. That quote unquote autophagy, yes. And lowering risks of cancer and so on. So there are benefits."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2065.708,
      "index": 74,
      "start_time": 2038.609,
      "text": " I never found it increased focus though. I never found anything like Lucas Man. I have tried nootropics of all sorts. I never found that anything increases my focus or my my quickness. I found that plenty can dull it like ADHD medication would dull me. Yes. I know many people are like, Oh, I can't wait to try to do whatever it is. I'm stimulant. I've never found anything to"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2091.459,
      "index": 75,
      "start_time": 2066.544,
      "text": " It's more like what you say, you found things that make it worse and fasting for me is one of the ways of doing something that doesn't make it worse because then I don't eat"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2119.514,
      "index": 76,
      "start_time": 2092.159,
      "text": " I think about food. Well, I used to think about food all the time, which is why I started the fasting that that's what removed my focus. Fasting increased my focus by me not having to think about food. But it's not I don't know if it's a cognitive enhancer. It's just a fault. When I did my first four day fast, I saw I realized how much time I spent not only thinking about food, but preparing food or"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2145.947,
      "index": 77,
      "start_time": 2119.906,
      "text": " Going to out to eat or cooking or whatever, maybe. And then you have so much more time. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. I was also single at the time. So life was just read for the whole day. That's a. I don't I don't want those times anymore, but there was something beautiful about them. Are you living with your partner now? Yes, yes, we're engaged, so."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2168.695,
      "index": 78,
      "start_time": 2146.237,
      "text": " Oh, wonderful. Thank you, man. Thank you. It's kind of a weird thing to do these days. Are you frightened? Are you afraid? Are you exhilarated? I feel that it's a natural progression. And I decided to want to get married when I was 19. And so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2199.155,
      "index": 79,
      "start_time": 2169.821,
      "text": " Being 22 now, it doesn't feel weird. I'm happy and I'm excited to do it. And I'm excited to see everyone happy and my family happy and her happy and to to take that commitment to another level. But it feels for the both of us more like showing it to the other world than the commitment was already there. It's now just. Yeah, I guess sharing it. So that's what I feel about it. Yeah, no. But you got married."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2228.268,
      "index": 80,
      "start_time": 2199.565,
      "text": " That's also, yeah, it's quite a, I don't know, it feels, it feels kind of weird to do these days, but I'm, I'm happy to do it. I think it's, it's important. So speaking of individuation and speaking about what you had mentioned as currently we think about truth as I'm sorry, we think about religions as true or not true."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2254.155,
      "index": 81,
      "start_time": 2228.968,
      "text": " We've gotten into this frame since the enlightenment and we think of truth as facts, facts that are disclosed to me. To me, the person as the individual, I was speaking to my friend, Matthew. Not sure if you know him, I could tell you his last name affair because I'm unsure if he's comfortable with me sharing his information, but. Matthew was saying that in Christianity. The. Well, ever since."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2288.063,
      "index": 82,
      "start_time": 2258.524,
      "text": " Ever since the Ever since Kant formally separated the transcendental. So truth, beauty and which used to be tied together. Yes. Yeah. That Marx and Nietzsche came in and said, OK, what truth is, is this disclosure of facts and that you'll always be suspicious and feel like they're hidden agendas. It's something else I dislike about the UFO scene is that it seems like they have the framing completely incorrect."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2318.217,
      "index": 83,
      "start_time": 2288.422,
      "text": " where there's a concept called hermeneutics of suspicion, where you'll always be suspicious of the next facts, whatever is disclosed to you, you can always feel like that's not enough and there's never a resolution. And truth has become about an uncovering of facts to me rather than a participation in something beautiful, which is tied to love."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2348.729,
      "index": 84,
      "start_time": 2318.78,
      "text": " I feel like the entire framing is incorrect, and it's so difficult to articulate because our entire culture is based off of truth equals facts equals rational. You're so deep into the trenches of that. Yes. Yeah, I recognize that. But that's why. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. No, continue. That's why what? For me, the answer is applying the human ethics of beauty instead, which is something that for vaguely speaks about."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2377.875,
      "index": 85,
      "start_time": 2349.445,
      "text": " Hmm. And so that's actually it goes back to what I spoke about before about me being suspicious about politicians and all these things. Politicians and corrupt institutions. Yes. It's a lens at the end of the day. And the hermeneutics or the interpretation of reality I have now is one of beauty, I guess, love. And it helps me. And I've actually argued before that I think that's more real."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2408.404,
      "index": 86,
      "start_time": 2379.036,
      "text": " But I'm not going to put that in a math equation, I will probably fail, but it feels more real to me. Yeah, it also leads to a sense of hopelessness and cynicism. And then because people can't deal with their people don't want to be people don't want hope because they can't deal with their disappointment. And because they can't deal with their disappointment, they then project this miasma of mistrust and repugnance. So it's not good for them. It's not good for"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2436.715,
      "index": 87,
      "start_time": 2408.985,
      "text": " for society. And truth used to be seen as somehow a relationship, not just it's not just a cold, hard, isolated node to be grasped. But somehow there's a relationship between you and the community and you participate in your community and you can uncover. It's not even about uncovering truth. It's so difficult for me to say. But anyway, going back to the individual and you talking about being married,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2467.022,
      "index": 88,
      "start_time": 2437.517,
      "text": " Matthew was saying that in Christianity, some interpretations of Christianity is that the individual isn't yourself, it's the family. And so you yourself are not even full, you're not even a whole until you're a part of a family, until you're married and you have kids. So it's a tripartite individual. That's terribly interesting. And it also, it also makes sense then, at another level, I've always wondered, why is it that grand"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2490.998,
      "index": 89,
      "start_time": 2467.244,
      "text": " If it's the case that you're not"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2521.049,
      "index": 90,
      "start_time": 2491.63,
      "text": " whole until you you have your own family then in some sense even if i have my family my family is still not whole until my son or daughter has a family because they're still not an individual and also in some sense this means while you're a baby you're more of an individual than you are as an adult because when you're an adult you then have the responsibility of having responsibility yes yes being a family but when you're a kid you're not so your your whole are as a family when you have a child than when you do when you have an aimless"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2551.732,
      "index": 91,
      "start_time": 2522.176,
      "text": " Entity just living in your house. And it also reminded me of the of the Jewish symbol of the Star of David, which are interlocked triangles, because if that's the case in the individual web, the cosmos is net with these triangles. So the tripartite mother, father, children, but then the child is also part of its own triangle and so on. So you get this. The mathematician would say a simplicial decomposition, which is like a triangulation."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2558.422,
      "index": 92,
      "start_time": 2552.159,
      "text": " But it's more than that because it's an interlocking triangulation. Hear that sound?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2585.469,
      "index": 93,
      "start_time": 2559.36,
      "text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2611.578,
      "index": 94,
      "start_time": 2585.469,
      "text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2634.94,
      "index": 95,
      "start_time": 2611.578,
      "text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothies, and Brooklynin. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2661.442,
      "index": 96,
      "start_time": 2634.94,
      "text": " I've heard theories about Christianity or Christ creating the individual as we speak and that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2692.278,
      "index": 97,
      "start_time": 2662.329,
      "text": " Before that, we didn't even have a conception of an individual, let's say. So in ancient Rome, like you say, you wouldn't have the individual, you'd have actually the family. And in Egypt, I did one of my papers about this. Well, you have a lot of words for soul, so that's a bit of a tricky one. But normal people wouldn't have that. Only the king would have a soul. Only the king would be an individual. And then as the time progresses in the Middle Kingdom, some rich people get"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2720.486,
      "index": 98,
      "start_time": 2692.585,
      "text": " to be an individual as well. And then it democratizes, that's the term they use. But this seems to contradict it what you say. It's interesting. Because it's so some people argue that that Christ actually brings the idea of an individual, especially as pertaining to property rights. But in a way, it's actually, it's actually not that at all. And I think people experience that in their lives when they"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2748.882,
      "index": 99,
      "start_time": 2721.596,
      "text": " Yeah, I don't know what to think about that because then it's odd to think that people before Jesus had no soul, but then Jesus brought to them souls so that they can be. I don't know how to make sense of that. But by the way,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2772.892,
      "index": 100,
      "start_time": 2748.985,
      "text": " Hello, dear friends, my name is Lucas and today I had the absolute pleasure of hosting Kurt Jaimungal on this channel. Kurt is a filmmaker and host of the Theories of Everything channel. This channel will be familiar to a lot of you, but if it isn't, please check it down below. I will say beforehand, my internet connection was a little bit unstable near the end, so I had to edit out just a little bit of footage, but overall I think it gels pretty well."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2801.391,
      "index": 101,
      "start_time": 2773.729,
      "text": " I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. For me, it was one of my all-time favorites. I can already say that with certainty. Kurt is one of the most authentic people I've ever met. So please enjoy. Recording in progress, it's said. So, okay. There we go. I'm going to keep that in. That's beautiful. Okay. Welcome back to the channel guys. I'm joined here by Kurt Jaimongo. It's an absolute honor to have you. Thank you for coming on, Kurt."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2830.913,
      "index": 102,
      "start_time": 2802.022,
      "text": " Thank you so much, Lucas. I appreciate that. I've been following your channel for a couple of years. And I don't think I have the exact capacity to keep up with all your episodes. But sometimes there's a more philosophical one that's a bit less hard physics or hard mathematics. And then I just I can listen to them. I'll repeat and keep finding new insights. So I think you're doing a wonderful job at that. Man, you sound almost exactly like Ryan Gosling."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2860.043,
      "index": 103,
      "start_time": 2831.596,
      "text": " Oh, has anyone ever told you that? No, but I like his voice. OK. Yeah. If anyone's listening, just close your eyes and picture Ryan Gosling. And it's almost like how you look anyhow. Thank you. Thank you. I'll take that. I wanted to start with the question I ask a lot of my guests, and that is about your childhood. And I'd like to know what that was like if you want to share some of that. Yeah, I was a regular. Well, I wasn't the."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2881.783,
      "index": 104,
      "start_time": 2860.435,
      "text": " Popular kid nor an unpopular kid. I was I didn't have plenty of pressure from my parents to do any to go into any field. Though when I was young, my dad did teach me chess, like hardcore. I was like, since I was three years older, so and took me to chess tournaments."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2913.251,
      "index": 105,
      "start_time": 2884.292,
      "text": " taught me math, high level math when I was smaller. And so that framed me in an analytical way, a logical way. Never liked to do projects with my hands. I don't care about woodworking. I don't care about fixing around the house like plumbing. I don't care about any of that. I like puzzles. I like to think. And that's always been with me. Yeah, I would I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2942.568,
      "index": 106,
      "start_time": 2914.872,
      "text": " Yeah. Anything else? What in particular do you want to know about my childhood? Cause I can go on for hours. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand. I'll think about what is relevant already. This is very telling for me. It's the way it shapes your mind because I contacted you initially saying that I like the way your mind works because it's quite different for me. I'm not able to go into that conceptual space as deeply as you are, I think. And I like to be also a bit more embodied. Um,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2974.206,
      "index": 107,
      "start_time": 2944.36,
      "text": " But yeah, sometimes I've heard glimpses of you in your childhood thinking about about God, for example, or that you that you maybe decide. I think you decided that you decided at some point that you think God doesn't exist because you had a certain thing that maybe your brother said to you. Were you like as a child, were you thinking about these deeper questions you're tackling right now already? Or were you just more of a kid that thought about school and just normal things? Well, when I was eight, I started to think about that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3003.234,
      "index": 108,
      "start_time": 2974.599,
      "text": " So when I was eight, I remember asking my brother about. How could the universe have come into existence? Why something rather than nothing? And for some reason, that was the last linchpin of God in my life. And my brother had said, as he was studying physics at the time, he said he told me about quantum fluctuations, and I'm old enough now to know that that's not actually an explanation. But at the time I thought it was. And so I thought I had the last piece of the puzzle. I remember."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3031.937,
      "index": 109,
      "start_time": 3004.616,
      "text": " Laying in my bed and staring at the ceiling and thinking, okay, then not only does there not need to be God, but if there's no need to be a God and somehow there isn't a God. And ever since then, I became this this whippersnapping, pretentious, orgyllous young man with a superiority complex over anyone who was cretinous enough to believe in"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3059.787,
      "index": 110,
      "start_time": 3033.251,
      "text": " in so-called religion or follow so-called, especially institutional religion, because isn't it obvious? Like all institutions are corrupt. Yes. Yeah. As if you're not corrupt, as if I'm not corrupt, as if, as if, yeah. As if I'm not more corrupt, like way more well. And as if there's not far more good in other organizations and other places than I think in the same way that I underestimate my own"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3090.811,
      "index": 111,
      "start_time": 3062.483,
      "text": " Maliciousness. I underestimate the the goodness in others or the goodness in in other places. Yeah, that brings true to me as well. I had a similar journey of getting to that realization. Actually, today is funny story. I live in in The Hague, which is like the political capital of the of the Netherlands, let's say. And"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3116.015,
      "index": 112,
      "start_time": 3091.186,
      "text": " In my teenage years, I got more and more suspicious of politicians and that in general. And today I saw the prime minister, we used to be prime minister, at least, and he was just in a bookshop, you know, just picking out some books, just launching around. And I looked at that guy. And I wanted to speak to him just to say hi, whatever. And but he left quite shortly after. And I was like, this is a normal, normal dude. That was the prime minister, he said? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3145.742,
      "index": 113,
      "start_time": 3116.852,
      "text": " And I think he's got, he's got goodness in him regardless. I'm, I'm sure of that actually. And it made it harder for me to be that suspicious self or that, that self that, that seeks corruption and others. And that's something I'm generally trying to do less of because I'm seeing how it is unproductive for me to, to view people as corrupt or institutions for that matter. And I like that you're critical of yourself as well in the other way."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3174.94,
      "index": 114,
      "start_time": 3146.988,
      "text": " I think it's extremely helpful and I think it shows in your case that you work on that. So, yeah. Well, I have a policy in myself to assume maliciousness, selfishness or indolence. So like laziness rather than any goodness in myself. And there are many, many examples in my life of that. One that comes to mind, I think I've said this before,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3194.275,
      "index": 115,
      "start_time": 3175.196,
      "text": " This one time I was washing the dishes that my sister's house. And she came home and then she was like, oh, why are you washing the dishes? And I said, well, I wanted you to. I didn't want you to come home to a dirty place, something like that. But then I was analyzing myself like that stuff doesn't feel right. It just didn't it didn't jive exactly and."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3224.667,
      "index": 116,
      "start_time": 3194.787,
      "text": " And I realized the reason I was washing the dishes was because I had known she was coming home around then. So I want her to see me washing the dishes. She thinks I'm someone who helps clean up not only that so that she can have evidence. OK, Kurt cleans, but furthermore, so that she can clean something else that I don't so that I don't have to clean. So I can say, look, I'm cleaning up. I want you to do so and so. But all of that's under the surface. And it took some examination for me to to see that that tiny"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3252.5,
      "index": 117,
      "start_time": 3225.247,
      "text": " Tiny situation had revealed such like a Pandora's box of foolishness on my part. Yeah, and folly. Does that then not translate to other people in your case? Because you say you do the opposite with what I think you said institutions. Do you know I can distrust myself and trust others. So I think that's a great policy. Because I distrust breeds mistrust breeds mistrust. And I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3282.073,
      "index": 118,
      "start_time": 3253.131,
      "text": " And there's some game theoretic arguments about tit for tat and like, yes, so yes, I'm sure you're aware, okay, that you should start off with a policy of trust, and then you amend it when there's evidence, but you start off by opening your hand and allowing others to snap it. And then even afterward, even after you've been burned, that the correct path is to still put your hand forward and say, I know that you've hurt me. I know that I can get hurt again, but I'm willing to pay that price."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3311.288,
      "index": 119,
      "start_time": 3283.336,
      "text": " Did it take long for you to be able to trust people or were you already trusting as a child or was it something that came and went? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not. I wouldn't say it's something that personally, I don't say that I trust people. I work on trusting. I don't think I trust enough."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3343.063,
      "index": 120,
      "start_time": 3315.282,
      "text": " I also I don't like this phrase trust, but verify that's something that came to mind. Yes, that's the bit. I'm sure you've heard that. Yes. Okay, because trust, but verify is a contradiction. Like unless I don't unless they have some other definition of trust. How do you mean something that sounds because if you trust, why would you verify? So let's say you say four times four to the power of six is 4000, then I can trust you. Or I can verify that and say it's 4096. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3373.985,
      "index": 121,
      "start_time": 3344.48,
      "text": " I can trust what you're saying or I can verify what you're saying, but they're not entirely like. If I trusted what if I trust my computer, I don't verify it, I don't understand what the difference is. OK, no, I see what the big corner say is they say don't trust. But yes, OK, yes, OK. Don't trust, but verify. Yeah, that's what they do because of the third party element. OK, that makes sense. And you're told that were your parents religious at all?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3404.206,
      "index": 122,
      "start_time": 3375.572,
      "text": " So my dad was Hindu, I believe, before he got married and my mom was Muslim before she got married. And then somehow around the time of them getting united, they became Christian. So my dad and my mom are to this day Christian and I was raised Christian. Just a non denominational Christian. Yes. OK. Did you part from that at all? Yeah, when I was eight."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3433.814,
      "index": 123,
      "start_time": 3405.043,
      "text": " Okay, that was like definite. Yeah. That's beautiful. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I, I've departed quite heavily from that since I was eight, to the point of attacking it and feeling like I was I was in this sounds like a funny choice of word, but holier than it. Yeah, I've been through that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3463.183,
      "index": 124,
      "start_time": 3435.418,
      "text": " I remember thinking because there's Pascal's wager. I remember thinking from a young age, that's a foolish wager, because if I was God, I would punish people who believed because they're just believing out of nonsense. And I would be the rational God who would reward those who didn't believe in me. Yeah, I remember saying that to my dad. He just he almost cried. I feel so sorry for you, son. Something like that. I think."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3493.968,
      "index": 125,
      "start_time": 3464.155,
      "text": " I'd like to speak a bit about. Your. Relationship to your wife, I think it's always very wonderful to hear you speak about her. Can you tell me how you how you met her? Yeah, she was my stylist, my hairstylist, so seriously, yeah. That's why many people why your hair so good thing like yeah, yeah, they'll say you're great here and almost every like hopefully they don't say almost every but every every episode and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3522.5,
      "index": 126,
      "start_time": 3494.394,
      "text": " Yeah, it's because my wife. You started yourself now before before you go. I styled myself, but she cuts it. She makes sure that it's fresh. Do you do often? Do I get my hair cut often? Yeah, I get my hair cut fairly often. Too much for her, actually, because it should. OK, that's good. See, there's this phrase that if you want to be."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3551.544,
      "index": 127,
      "start_time": 3523.285,
      "text": " Carl Jung was asked about Nietzsche. Why is it that Nietzsche fell prey to suicide and psychosis? And Carl said that Nietzsche had no ground. And so it was just, it was just all air and you need both. Otherwise you're like the guy from up"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3580.162,
      "index": 128,
      "start_time": 3551.988,
      "text": " Just with balloons floating about with no home even. So. So for me, I have my conservative aspects or that I work at the same time, like I have a regiment schedule, I eat fairly much, pretty much the same. I try to go to sleep at the same time, although I have extreme problems, man, like we can talk about that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3605.265,
      "index": 129,
      "start_time": 3580.247,
      "text": " For those who don't know me and Lucas had this podcast scheduled yesterday and. I have problems sleeping like like you wouldn't believe it wastes hours and hours and hours like like I think that if I could get my sleep sorted out, I could be twice as productive and. And I'm already like I already work hard like I can work twice as hard or do twice as much."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3633.78,
      "index": 130,
      "start_time": 3605.486,
      "text": " I laid in bed when I sent you that message, Lucas. People don't know I sent Lucas a message at 3 a.m. I don't know if it was I was irascible and it could have been angry. I apologize if I said no, no, no. I don't know what I'm saying and when I'm in that state, I was just I sent a message also to my guy who helps with the marketing of this of this podcast as well. I think I was criticizing him. I was almost I don't swear. Even Lucas, like I don't swear. I think I almost warned him."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3663.916,
      "index": 131,
      "start_time": 3634.377,
      "text": " I was so upset. I'm laying in bed for eight hours. Yes. Eight hours laying in bed is such a waste of time. My doctor said don't lay in bed for more than a half hour to one hour. If you're not sleeping, get up and go and do something. Yeah. Because otherwise you associate your bed with not sleep. I've heard that. Yeah. And so I've associated my bed with not sleep for way too long. Like staying and staying awake for four hours is common to me. Like that's every night. Well, anyhow, and I got this eight sleep recently."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3690.862,
      "index": 132,
      "start_time": 3664.309,
      "text": " So we'll see how that goes. And that night when I texted you, my eight sleep broke in the middle of the night and I was so upset because I couldn't get the water to refill it. There's something that didn't break, but it needed refilling of water. And anyhow, I apologize for whatever I said to you. I think it was a beautiful message, actually, because I was I was just reading it and I was like, this is how Kurt thinks. This is your I just heard the inner mother like"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3720.879,
      "index": 133,
      "start_time": 3691.613,
      "text": " It was various, but I felt bad mostly for you. For me, it's not a problem. I'm a student. I don't have a busy schedule like you do, so I'm all good. But study. Egyptology. Oh, wonderful. I was extremely fascinated. I memorized all the like almost all the Egyptian gods at one point. Oh, I barely know. I've forgotten that. Yeah, it was just for fun. Yeah, there's a God for so much. There was there's a crocodile God."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3750.981,
      "index": 134,
      "start_time": 3721.186,
      "text": " Oh, I wish I had. I wish I had this in my memory. There's a God. There was a God for bartering. I'm sure there is. If they have a God for everything, you know, they've got for when someone cuts you off in traffic and doesn't give you. Yeah, I think that would. What do you actually make of that? What are gods to you? Actually, I guess this is the job for faking and you get really for faking an answer. He said that they are transjective."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3777.688,
      "index": 135,
      "start_time": 3752.483,
      "text": " You know, that's the type of stuff he would say. Yeah, gods are. I don't know. Firstly, I don't know. I. It could be said that what gods are are gods are. Are yeah, this will correct. Checking the grammar there, but they are."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3806.34,
      "index": 136,
      "start_time": 3780.589,
      "text": " Like if you have a value, what you should have is one overarching value, so that all of your goals, your sub goals are united, akin to an organization that is working toward one, one aspect or yes, one land and, and gods are when it's no, it's not one, you're working on two or three or four different lanes. And it's my understanding of religion that across time, you see"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3836.067,
      "index": 137,
      "start_time": 3807.005,
      "text": " a collapsing of multi gods to more and more single gods, except in the case of Christianity, those the first time that it had broken that and said, what is one is actually three, but then it didn't go from three to 10 to 20. Yes, go like that. I understand. Although in some ways you can think of Catholicism as as adopting that a bit with with the people, the statues that they pray to, but it's not exactly the same. So anyhow,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3865.282,
      "index": 138,
      "start_time": 3836.715,
      "text": " The gods can be can be akin to fractionated values or contradictory values, indicative of someone who is not united or individuated. But that just means it's all of us that we all worship gods because none of us are are these perfect, individuated beings, not even Jung, not even Carl Jung. OK, I actually did research about this. My thesis is about. A specific text. Theological texts from Egypt where"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3896.032,
      "index": 139,
      "start_time": 3866.288,
      "text": " Seemingly, they speak of one God is the ultimate God and all gods are manifestations of this God. And so. It's not exactly monotheism, what they have there. Maybe they call it henna theism, I don't know if you're familiar with henna theism is belief in one god without denying the others. Yes, yes, so that they still exist and it's interesting because it it happens multiple times in Egyptian history and Egyptian texts and they all seem completely contradictory."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3926.374,
      "index": 140,
      "start_time": 3896.92,
      "text": " It's like this God is the one and then that God is the upper God. And I'm just reading this through my Christian lens, I guess, or Western lens. How can you reconcile these realities? And apparently it didn't matter because they didn't think about false or correct like we do. We have a false or correct religion. If you're a religious person, your religion is correct. If it's one of the three Western ones. But for them, it wasn't like that. It was"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3956.288,
      "index": 141,
      "start_time": 3927.244,
      "text": " It was more about sacred or profane, I guess. But I don't want to drift off and talk about that. That's terribly interesting. Terribly interesting. I know I. Can you tell me more? Can I tell you more? Well, what's really cool about this specific God that in this specific document is being called the one is that. His name means hiddenness or something like that, and it's yeah,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3986.834,
      "index": 142,
      "start_time": 3957.056,
      "text": " So his name is Amun, maybe you've heard it, and it comes from the verb iman, which means to hide or to conceal. And one of the reasons why they put him on top is because he doesn't have a name, because when you have a name, you hold power over someone. And so I read this text, I read it for the first time, I basically went to my supervisor being like, I'm not sure what I want to do. But I have these interests, and I spoke about Rene Girard, and I spoke about sacrifice, and I spoke about"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4015.52,
      "index": 143,
      "start_time": 3987.705,
      "text": " Religion and he gave me this text and I started reading and I was like, this is I kind of agree with it. You know, I started reading. I was like, this very much aligns with the way I think about it because I call myself a Christian and perhaps because I don't feel my faith is exclusive. Maybe I'm not allowed to wear that title, but to me, I understand the idea of other gods existing."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4046.459,
      "index": 144,
      "start_time": 4017.108,
      "text": " To me, I see people in my daily life, worshiping other gods. That's normal every day happening for me. So I don't reject their existence. And I know Jonathan project their sacredness. I reject putting them on top. I reject. Yeah, then would they be more profane those gods or those people who worship the gods? I guess."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4076.323,
      "index": 145,
      "start_time": 4046.817,
      "text": " if your highest god is not god in his totality then you are going to be i don't i don't really like the word profane but you're going to be less aligned i guess as you see that in people a lot when their highest god is money or lust i guess that results in a misalignment that's i guess i would view it i don't think those"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4103.933,
      "index": 146,
      "start_time": 4077.568,
      "text": " But with lust, it's hard to argue for lust in many cases as a good thing. But for example, Egypt is a very interesting, interesting example. You know, Seth, as a God, yeah, yeah, he is as Peterson describes his chaos. And a lot of people instantly if Peterson even links him to the devil, which I think is pretty funny, because he's like set and then he looks at the root and he thinks that Satan was possible. But"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4132.654,
      "index": 147,
      "start_time": 4104.616,
      "text": " The Egyptians didn't see him as bad necessarily. You could also channel him, channel chaos. When you go to war, maybe you channel Seth. Maybe Seth is necessary to banish out other gods. When the Egyptians have like snakes on their heads, the snakes are kind of dangerous and bad, but also they protect. So it's something like that. But yeah. Trying to remember this interview is about you, so I'd like to."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4163.49,
      "index": 148,
      "start_time": 4133.695,
      "text": " Okay, you can do that. You can do that. This is a question I've been meaning to ask you because you already pulled up Carl Jung and Nietzsche and I was wondering what it is that grounds you because you are someone that thinks a lot and deeply and I've been in those spaces a little bit in my life and I realized that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4178.285,
      "index": 149,
      "start_time": 4164.121,
      "text": " For me, I need really something embodied and I know that you don't as a kid, you told me you don't like those embodied type of things. You didn't like woodworking. You don't like working on things for me. Those are the exact things that get me out. So is there something that grounds you?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4205.538,
      "index": 150,
      "start_time": 4179.019,
      "text": " Hola, Miami! When's the last time you've been in Burlington? We've updated, organized, and added fresh fashion. See for yourself Friday, November 14th to Sunday, November 16th at our Big Deal event. You can enter for a chance to win free Wawa gas for a year, plus more surprises in your Burlington. Miami, that means so many ways and days to save. Burlington. Deals. Brands. Wow! No purchase necessary. Visit BigDealEvent.com for more details."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4244.821,
      "index": 151,
      "start_time": 4215.35,
      "text": " Well, math grounds me. I know that's odd, but math has saved me by psychologically saved me quite a few times because some of the topics that are on the Toe Channel are quite heavy, quite, quite heavy and can send you or send me especially to a place where it's not a pleasant place at all. And math is so abstract that it's it's a reprieve from the tyranny of the concrete."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4276.169,
      "index": 152,
      "start_time": 4246.288,
      "text": " Now, also what grounds me is my wife, of course, my wife, like most of all my wife, spending time with her is something that's important to me. We have what are called us days, which are just like date days where we just go, we walk and walk and bike and, and we rarely eat at a restaurant. We'll take bites and walk because we love to just walk and talk. We don't want to just sit around and wait for food. So that grounds me. And that's important to me. I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4304.923,
      "index": 153,
      "start_time": 4276.971,
      "text": " Ensure that there's a part of my week. We both ensure there's a part of our week that. We can do that with one another, at least one, at least one day a week. So that grounds me. I go to the gym and I don't listen to anything when I'm at the gym, no music, no podcasts. And I just, but I think and so I use it to think, but it grounds me as well."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4337.056,
      "index": 154,
      "start_time": 4307.961,
      "text": " So I was thinking, as you said, you like to be embodied. And I I've recently started taking up swimming lessons. Because I don't I know how to swim, but barely doesn't grow me. I was thinking, does it ground me? No, no. It flounders me. Oh, my gosh, it's a frightening experience. Yeah, but I'm surprised. I'm way better at it than I thought. Like I made tremendous progress on my first my first lesson. And I said, good lesson, like I can float on my back. I never thought I could. And"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4366.578,
      "index": 155,
      "start_time": 4338.336,
      "text": " And I thought I would just sink and she was showing me, OK, even if you do sink, here's what you do is it's actually now that I think about it is metaphorically, it may save me later because I know there are certain tools that you can gain from the physical world that can be applied to the spiritual one and vice versa. And so I think this is going to be one of the first instances where I take something that's that's physical. And. I find the connection to the numinous"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4396.681,
      "index": 156,
      "start_time": 4369.07,
      "text": " OK, that's a good answer. I'm happy you you have some some practices like that. You enjoyed the gym. I I hate it and I love it at the same time, like I almost always dread that I have to go, but I go. And toward the end of the workout, I'm just like I just, for instance, before we started speaking, I came back from the gym recently and makes me out of breath."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4426.664,
      "index": 157,
      "start_time": 4397.125,
      "text": " Makes me feel sometimes I feel like I want to throw up. It depends on how hard I work out. But. I feel great, like fantastic afterward, and especially Lucas, like. I love to eat, I love to eat, I love to pick out like I'm a I'm someone who. There's a feast and famine, there's a phrase called feast and famine, so you fast and then you just overeat. I'm somewhat like that, somewhat like that, like surf it, so I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4453.695,
      "index": 158,
      "start_time": 4426.869,
      "text": " gorge myself way past the point of comfort. But I just love it. And I have to work out in order to make sure that that's somewhat healthy and not overly unhealthy. Yeah, I recognize that. And I would so much now. Yeah, I used to do fasting. And I ate once a day. Yeah, night. It really helped me with my focus during the day. But then"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4481.8,
      "index": 159,
      "start_time": 4454.07,
      "text": " At night, I would go crazy at a while. I just make pancakes every day. That was on. It was also because you eat once a day, you have to eat that much actually to maintain your weight. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, especially if you're building muscle, it's not great to do intermittent fasting. It's difficult. Yes, I experienced that. Yeah. I think I only recently found that out. So I've been intermittent fasting for"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4507.466,
      "index": 160,
      "start_time": 4482.142,
      "text": " Maybe three years or so. And I was wondering, I'm like, man, I'm going to the gym all the time. Like, I'm, I'm fit. But why aren't I gaining more muscle like I'm gaining it so extremely slowly. Yeah. And then I believe I watched some Peter Attia video. I had the exact same. Right. You know what's pernicious about this? This is what's pernicious about this. Peter Attia, my friend, he told me he's like,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4536.186,
      "index": 161,
      "start_time": 4507.927,
      "text": " You got to do fast thing you do once a day, right? So I listen to peers. I was into Huberman before he had his podcast. I just always followed what they were doing. Peter T was eating once a day for years. And then all of a sudden, Peter T changes his mind and he starts building muscle like a maniac. He's like, you don't it's not good to eat once a day or to do that for four muscles. So I had the exact same journey. And then I just stopped. And I know there's. Yeah, I heard that there's well, I saw that there's an article that came out either"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4564.582,
      "index": 162,
      "start_time": 4536.578,
      "text": " today or within the week that said that intermittent fasting is associated with a 91% increased risk of cardiovascular damage or heart attacks or whatever maybe I don't think that's the case I find when you look into studies like that they it doesn't it doesn't work out but and it was it was a correlation so the cause could be that when you intermittent when you fast intermittently"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4594.735,
      "index": 163,
      "start_time": 4564.872,
      "text": " You have less lean mass, lean, you have less muscle, and the less muscle is worse for you. Systemically. Yes, I understand that can lead to the higher heart attack. I mean, it could be such a loose connection like that. Yeah. But intermittent fasting is great for. For. Well, quote unquote autophagy, yes. And lowering risks of cancer and so on. So there are benefits."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4622.039,
      "index": 164,
      "start_time": 4594.923,
      "text": " I never found it increased focus, though. I never found anything like Lucas Man. I have tried nootropics of all sorts. I never found that anything increases my focus or my my quickness. I found that plenty can dull it like ADHD medication would dull me. Yes. I know many people are like, oh, I can't wait to try to do whatever it is. I'm stimulant. I've never found anything to"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4647.79,
      "index": 165,
      "start_time": 4622.858,
      "text": " It's more like when you say you found things that make it worse and fasting for me is one of the ways of doing something that doesn't make it worse because then I don't eat"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4675.828,
      "index": 166,
      "start_time": 4648.456,
      "text": " I think about food. Well, I used to think about food all the time, which is why I started the fasting that that's what removed my focus. Fasting increased my focus by me not having to think about food, but it's not. I don't know if it's a cognitive enhancer. It's just a fault. Well, when I did my first four day fast, I saw I realized how much time I spent not only thinking about food, but preparing food or"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4702.261,
      "index": 167,
      "start_time": 4676.203,
      "text": " Going to out to eat or cooking or whatever, maybe. And then you have so much more time. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. I was also single at the time. So life was just read for the whole day. That's I don't I don't want those times anymore, but there was something beautiful about them. Are you living with your partner now? Yes. Yes, we're engaged. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4728.626,
      "index": 168,
      "start_time": 4702.534,
      "text": " Oh, wonderful. Congratulations. Thank you, man. Thank you. It's kind of a weird thing to do these days. Are you frightened? Are you afraid? Are you exhilarated? I feel that it's a natural progression. And I decided to want to get married when I was 19. And so being 22 now, it doesn't feel weird."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4756.903,
      "index": 169,
      "start_time": 4729.019,
      "text": " I'm happy and I'm excited to do it and I'm excited to see everyone happy and my family happy and her happy and to to take that commitment to another level. But it feels for the both of us more like showing it to the other world than the commitment was already there. It's now just. Yeah, I guess sharing it. So that's what I feel about it. Yeah, no. But you got married. That's also. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4784.582,
      "index": 170,
      "start_time": 4758.387,
      "text": " It's quite a, I don't know, it feels, it feels kind of weird to do these days, but I'm, I'm happy to do it. I think it's, it's important. So speaking of individuation and speaking about what you had mentioned as currently we think about truth as, I'm sorry, we think about religions as true or not true."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4810.452,
      "index": 171,
      "start_time": 4785.282,
      "text": " We've gotten into this frame since the enlightenment and we think of truth as facts, facts that are disclosed to me. To me, as the person, as the individual, I was speaking to my friend Matthew. I'm not sure if you know him and I could tell you his last name affair, because I'm unsure if he's comfortable with me sharing his information, but. Matthew was saying that in Christianity. The. Well, ever since."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4836.834,
      "index": 172,
      "start_time": 4814.838,
      "text": " Ever since Kant formally separated the transcendental, so truth, beauty, and love, which used to be tied together, that Marx and Nietzsche came in and said, okay, what truth is, is this disclosure of facts and that you'll always be suspicious and feel like they're hidden"
    }
  ]
}

No transcript available.