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Fidias interviews Curt Jaimungal on Podcasting, Free Will, & Morality

January 15, 2024 • 1:38:36 • undefined

Channel: Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

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[0:00] The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze.

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[0:36] Where senior editors argue through the news with world leaders and policy makers in twice weekly long format shows. Basically an extremely high quality podcast. Whether it's scientific innovation or shifting global politics, The Economist provides comprehensive coverage beyond headlines. As a toe listener, you get a special discount. Head over to economist.com slash TOE to subscribe. That's economist.com slash TOE for your discount.

[1:06] There are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma loves you, and she would never say no to McDonald's. So treat yourself to a Grandma McFlurry with your order today. It's what Grandma would want. At participating McDonald's for a limited time.

[1:22] A popular YouTuber named Phidias, who has over 2 million subscribers, just got the Guinness World Record for the longest time spent consecutively in VR. Congratulations to him. It was an experiment where he was under VR for 30 days straight. I don't know how he did it, but on his last hour, he interviewed me for his channel. It was an honor not only to be included in such a challenge, but to be the last activity that he did prior to removing his VR goggles. Enjoy this episode where Phidias interviewed me for his channel. Links to his socials are in the description.

[1:51] If you enjoyed this and you would like to hear more from me, then there are a couple examples of me being interviewed. One is coming up. You've heard me interview Jesse Michaels. Well, Jesse Michaels interviewed me one year ago and we're going to be mirroring it on this platform. Also, there are Ask Me Anythings and you can just search on YouTube or hear AMA's Kurt. I have no interest in speaking to Joe Rogan or Andrew Huberman and not that I have anything against him. It's just I have no interest in it.

[2:15] There's this popularizer of science named Neil deGrasse Tyson. I find that what he does is give the high school explanation, sometimes even the middle school explanation of some phenomenon, and then you're left wondering, what the heck does that even mean? It gets you excited about science, but then it actually doesn't teach you science. It's positive in some ways, but I prefer the more precise statements.

[2:33] I have a wife and I love my wife, but we don't discuss the ideas on the podcast because she just finds them incredibly boring. Yeah. And in many ways it's not been pleasant psychologically. It's unsettling and I lose sleep all the time. My mind is racing. It's a troubling state of affairs.

[2:59] First of all we need to get the elephant out of the room. I have this VR headset because I'm breaking the world record of the person that had the longest time a VR headset. Currently I'm 29 days in the VR headset and tonight finally in a couple of hours I'm going to take it off. It will be the day thirsty and yes we have with us

[3:23] Kurt Jal Magas. I'm not sure if I did that correctly. And first question is, who are you? Yeah, that's pretty great. Pretty close. Kurt Jai Mungle. It's like my jungle, but with Jai Mungle. All right. So I am

[3:47] I'm a podcaster. I have a podcast called theories of everything, where we explore the fundamental nature of reality. So the cosmos, what are the laws of physics? What is consciousness? What is the relationship between those three and more?

[4:03] the largest questions that are about the nature of reality. So you are, you are not just a podcaster though. You left a lot of things on the table. I know. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Give us more. Like what? Like what? Yeah. My background, I used to, my background's in mathematical physics and I had a whole filmmaking stint and I still carry some of those skills over to the podcast itself. I did some standup comedy before.

[4:34] And I believe that's about it. At least that's publicly known. Wow. Okay. And why did you start your podcast? It was during the pandemic. So I was doing a documentary and I was releasing some of those interviews online, just unedited. And then that started to get some traction. And I preferred that there's someone named Donald Hoffman. I don't know if you know who that is. He's been on the podcast.

[5:01] Okay, so Don believes that the nature of reality is such that consciousness is fundamental and furthermore that you can derive this and that physics says this. And so he made many of these claims and they tend to blow people's minds when they hear it. But my mind

[5:21] isn't so easily blown, especially when someone's saying that they have mathematics to back it up. And I'm like, OK, great. I love math. I can understand math. I feel like I can bring something new to the interview scene because most people just take him on his word. So let me look into his research. Let me read the PDFs and then let me see, do his claims match his derivations? Only the one human being in the world that sought to do that, that had the passion to do that. Yeah.

[5:52] Right, right. And so there's this large three hour podcast with with Donald and it's the only one that seems to be the one that questions the technicalities. And that took off and that is like exciting every bone in my body and so started to do more and more of that and that became theories of everything.

[6:12] Okay. How about you, man? How did your channel start? Now, I am a wannabe podcaster. Now you are switching the table, the actual podcaster there. So, my passion is learning.

[6:29] So I want to understand everything around me. So hopefully with this knowledge, I can take some action. Now I'm 23 when I'm 30 to make, I don't know, some sustainable business that help the world in a way. That's kind of my vision, just to understand everything. But also along the way is to share everything and like

[6:54] Now I'm trying to, I don't know, I'm uploading on TikTok. I'm trying to get a bit the younger generation into this philosophy and consciousness that you are talking. But it's hard because it's hard for them to understand all this stuff and slowly get into it. But yeah. Right. The younger generation younger than you? About my age. But yeah, my viewers are mostly younger than me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's great, man. That's great. You're passionate about learning everything around you. What do you mean by that?

[7:23] to understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, is there anything beyond what meets our eye. So I'm a big fan of the podcast and it's like of your podcast because

[7:44] It's very, I appreciate a lot more because I've been a YouTuber. I don't know. I have like two and a half million subscribers on the main channel that we have the entertainment, but this podcast seems a completely different game. And it's like very hard because I'm very hard to grow a podcast, very hard to do all these things. And it's like, uh, I wanted to hear that today also kind of your backstory of how you built everything, how, because I, I, I know there is a lot,

[8:14] People think that just you jump on a call with someone and you record it, but I want to learn no yes so much more yes enlighten us, please sure sure so you want to know about how The episodes are prepared for or what goes into it that to it afterward or during or what? Everything how they what how do you prepare for the guests? How do you choose the guests and? everything okay

[8:42] The choosing of the guest is more intuition. So well, okay, so I have large questions such as, let's say, what is so quantum gravity, there are various approaches to quantum gravity. How do you combine quantum field theory with general relativity? So the theory of it's, it's explained like the theory of the large with the theory of the small, many people know this is a large unsolved problem, the largest maybe unsolved problem in physics.

[9:12] If I'm interviewing someone in quantum gravity, well, there are various approaches. There's string theory, there's loop quantum gravity, there's other approaches. Then if I take one of them, to understand one, you need to understand quite a few other steps. So then I'm thinking, okay, who is a step on that ladder that is an expert on that step that leads up to where I'm trying to go? Almost like courses in university.

[9:37] In math, you don't take a fourth year math course before you take a second year math course because the knowledge builds on one another. So with guest selection, I think about, OK, where am I going? Broadly speaking, it's not always one defined goal. Like in the example I gave you was quantum gravity. That's one often it's fields to explore. And so I think, OK, well, what is interesting to me along the way that can that can elucidate my later journey as well as the present one?

[10:06] So that's how I choose guests generally. Then how do I prepare? So I just spoke to Chiara Marlowe. One second, I have a question about that. So it's not based on, oh, these two people will get a lot of views. Let's match. No, no, no, no. So there are many times where

[10:35] There are many people that could be interviewed that would get plenty of views. So for instance, there's Andrew Huberman, and there's the people that you would see over and over in the podcast scene. I purposefully stay away from them for a couple of reasons. One is because I want to create a distinctive flavor to the channel. And I feel like I just feel like I would be selling out. I feel like it would water down the uniqueness

[10:58] But that's just my it's like I have a filmmaking side. It's my artistic side. It's my creative side. That's that's saying that there's also a business side that's not saying that. And then there are people who are saying like, Kurt, you've got to bring on these large guests. You have to you have to. And so it's this constant fight. And so far, I've won. But we'll see. We'll see. So is based. Yeah. So for instance, yeah. So is based on

[11:24] Actually, your intuition, when you're learning your personal path of learning your questions, your personal questions. Yeah, and some of that is influenced, like you mentioned, it will inadvertently be some people who get large views, because it's my it's people that I've looked up to for years and years and years, which means they have a reputation. So for instance, there's Daniel Dennett, someone I just interviewed. Yes, he's someone I've

[11:54] been researching for like 10 years, and then there's Richard Dawkins that may come up. So those just by the nature of me knowing about the means they have some name. So it's it's implicit, but it's not explicit. OK, I understand. And how? Yeah, like I'm sure you feel similarly like, hey, you have this platform and I don't want to mispronounce your name for this, right? Fiddeus, Fiddeus. OK, I will go and die.

[12:20] All right, exactly. Yeah. So you have this huge platform and you get to speak to whoever you want. In fact, you not only get to do that with your podcast, you get to make videos on your other main channel on virtually any topic that you want. Yes. Yes, they are the main channel. Actually, I actually follow the theories. What? OK, what?

[12:42] I don't want to get zero views. I will not talk about in the main channel about entertainment, about quantum gravity and let go. It will be a challenge, a human physical challenge, but it's what I want to do. But actually in the podcast stuff is that I'm not sitting like that. I'm not just following my curiosity.

[13:02] Yeah, yeah, it's it's almost entirely just curiosity. Luckily.

[13:29] but aren't you into a curious to learn about Andrew Huberman? Let's say like if you, if you like you, you're curious about everything. So you can like kind of say an excuse, okay, I can talk with anybody in a way. I don't know if that's. Yeah, I could, I could, but then I would have to question my motivation because I'd have to be contriving some reason to speak to Andrew Huberman or who else is large Joe Rogan. I don't, I have no interest in,

[13:58] In speaking to Joe Rogan, not that I have anything against him. It's just I have no interest in it. I have no interest in speaking to Andrew Huberman other than to discuss nootropics or sleep. Like what can aid learning? So if I was going to speak to Huberman, it would be about that. But I can't just let's say Andrew Huberman had something interesting to say about some controversial topic. Israel or Andrew Tate. And any time you interview him on that, he gets two million views. I can't I can't interview him on that then.

[14:27] Because it's just, it's just, it wouldn't feel right, at least to me. Okay. I understand. How do you match the guests? Match them, meaning like for the theolocutions? Yeah. But, and by the way, you know that you are the only person in the world that uses that word, right? Theolocutions. Yeah. Yeah. How do you match them?

[14:53] and i'm curious to learn more about this word because usually it's a debate but you chose to name it that's right that's right yeah so theolocution comes from the root means okay i was toying with calling it theomachy which is a term that means the battling of the gods like the greek gods battling one another

[15:14] But it's not a battle, it's speaking, it's like God speaking to one another, so theolocution. Locution means to speak, loquacious is another word for that. They share the same root. Then, yeah, and it's a tongue-in-cheek reference to how I look up to these people. It also is not, yeah, it's also just, it's my term for the Socratic method with endearment and love, because

[15:45] Many people pride themselves on following Socrates, but Socrates was quite sardonic and sarcastic to people. It wasn't like this. It wasn't terribly conducive to eliciting new ideas. At least that's my impression. Plato, all we know about Socrates is what comes from Plato. We have no idea if that's exactly how the dialogues went. And if you look at it, if you read it, it doesn't sound like that's something that

[16:13] Socrates is constantly critiquing people and people don't generate, generally speaking, new ideas when they're being critiqued. They become defensive. So how about we have two people who have contrasting views, explore ideas together rather than trying to debate. That's the theolocution.

[16:29] And also you give them unlimited time. So in general debates, they're like, Hey, you have 10 minutes. Let's hear your opening statement. What the heck is an opening statement, man? But that already puts someone with a stake in the ground. And then someone else has to now attack or defend their stake, attack someone else, stake or defend their own. I don't, I'm not a fan of that. I also find that to be too manipulated.

[16:52] And then you're like, OK, I'm going to give you five minutes to respond. Now you have five minutes. I'm going to mute your mic. I'm going to I don't like that. Let's let's have them talk and let's have them talk over one another. As long as they agree to do so prior respectfully, then it's going to be interesting to me and interesting to them. Some people have had new ideas come from this that articles have been written on, like articles as in research articles. And I don't imagine that that well,

[17:20] I can't speak for everyone. But anyway, how do I match two people? I listen to the comments. So there are a variety of comments to say you should get this person to speak to this person. I'm also aware of the field. I know who knows who believes in free will and who doesn't believe in free will, for instance, and who would be a great guest. I understand who whose personalities may clash, but in an interesting manner. And then you just you take a gamble and you hope some of the times that it's only hope that it's

[17:49] It's positive. Sometimes it's not, it's not always positive, but there's this saying that if you're not failing 10% of the time, then you're not trying hard enough, something like that. Yes. Elon Musk says 20. Ah, okay. Great. Yeah. So that's that. So what's your role in a podcast?

[18:14] Let's say when you have a theolo-cution, you just shut up and listen. What is the... Yeah, I'm just listening and then I'll guide the conversation along if there's a lull or if they're locking heads for too long, then I can try and point out where the disagreement is or I can summarize so I can serve as a proxy for the audience to

[18:43] to bring them along to the journey because often it's extremely technical. And how do you manage this position? Because you are a knowledgeable person yourself. For me, it's very easy. I don't need to pretend that I'm a proxy. I'm actually a proxy without knowledge and asking the stupid question. But how do you make sure that you dumb down sometimes the conversation for everyone to understand?

[19:13] Yeah, I try not to... I almost never simplify, so that's one of the reasons why the channel has a different flavor, is that it stays at the technical level, as precise as it can be, as rigorous as it can be. It's rarely that we'll say, okay... I can't even say it because I don't know when we'll say it, but... There's this popularizer of science named Neil deGrasse Tyson,

[19:43] And I find that what he does, which is great for the public and he has much accolades and good for him. But I find that what he does is give the high school explanation, sometimes even the middle school explanation of some phenomenon. And then you're left as at university or as a as an astute high school student wondering what the heck does that even mean? Like it just it gets you excited about science, but then it actually doesn't teach you science. So it's like rhetoric. It's it's

[20:11] Which it's good because it's positive in some ways, but I prefer the more precise statements. So for instance, with Donald Hoffman and Philip Goff recently, Donald Hoffman is someone who's an idealist who believes consciousness is fundamental, but he's also a non-dualist. So there's different types of people who believe consciousness is fundamental. Whereas Philip Goff is a Cosmopsychist.

[20:39] I believe a Cosmopsychist, meaning he used to be a Panpsychist, believing that particles had some element of consciousness to them, but now he's a Cosmopsychist that believes something more general, that the cosmos itself is alive and has purpose to it. Okay, so Don is speaking to Philip Goff, and then he's making plenty of claims, and he's saying these claims are predicated in physics. They're contingent on physics.

[21:07] And that the physicist, the quote unquote physicist believed this in this. And I am there as someone who's supposed to be just watching them. But that was an example where I can't just allow some claims about physics to go unchallenged because it was just I found that what he was saying to be what I found that what Don was saying was misleading and was being stated with such conviction as if they were a consensus in the field and they weren't. And so that's one of one of the times I may come in.

[21:39] And more generally, what's your role in a podcast that you're doing a solo podcast? How do you prepare and how do you balance the conversation? Do you have rules of thumb? Do you follow your curiosity? Give us a bit more deeper. So I read their papers beforehand.

[22:03] I'll read their book if they have a book or their books if they have books. So you read it off. Some people have like 10 books. You go ahead and I'll just ship it. Then I'll look at like I'll look at, well, where am I going? Again, the example of quantum gravity. And are there any that have something to do with that? And I'll read those. Or if it's one of the most I almost always prioritize the recent ones because people's minds change. So I want their most updated thoughts.

[22:33] Okay, then. Yeah, for for Robert Sapolsky, I read his Determined book. He has a recent book called Determined that was just published a couple of months ago, for instance. Then I write down questions as they occur to me. I. I come up with questions as I'm watching TV with my wife or as I'm walking or as I think they just they're incessant, they come to me. So I often have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of

[23:03] of notes. Then when I'm speaking to a guest, I've done the hard work already. It's almost like, yeah, I allow it to go and almost whatever they say, I try to get what I tried to do is before the interview, I tried to get myself to the point where I can predict what the guest would say to my own question that I would come up with. So can I emulate them in my head?

[23:28] once i've done that then i know i'm ready for the interview then i go in and i poke holes at where i not poke holes i find the holes in my knowledge so it's better if i give an example i'll have to think of an example later and we'll have to come back to that fair enough so

[23:49] So you prepared. Okay, I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. Yeah, I'll give you an example. But they're a bit technical. So I was speaking to Chiara Marletto just about two hours ago. And she had a quote about the about that quantum field theory has in equivalent representations, meaning there are many ways to get to quantum field theory. And while they produce the same results in the sense of

[24:19] you they predict the same observable so they predict the same results in the lab they're actually different theories so she had a line that said that because they have because we have different quantum field theories in equivalent representations of quantum field theory it then leads to problems with studying curved space-time so of all her statements I okay I understand that they have different representations quantum field theory but I don't understand what

[24:48] What that means, what the implications are of that for curved space time. Furthermore, curved space time is another way. Well, sometimes people make an equivalence between curved space time and quantum gravity. It's not technically true because you can just you can curve space time without it being dynamic. But anyway, what I'm wondering is, OK, does that statement have anything to do with string theory? So then I have

[25:14] Then I ask her that question, because I just don't know the answer. So I have a variety of questions I don't know the answer to. It's rare that what I'll do is I'll ask a question just on behalf of the audience. The only time I would do so would be just toward the beginning to establish terms. But basically, I'm a selfish person. I'm an extremely selfish, selfish person who, who is who's just trying to edify myself. It's almost like the audience is I don't care about the audience. So

[25:44] So that's how I think about my role is I'm a student and I have the professor, this great sage, and I can ask this person any question that comes to my mind in office hours. So what would I ask if even if the doors were closed? There are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma loves you and she would never say no to McDonald's. So treat yourself to a Grandma McFlurry with your order today.

[26:11] Raise a spoon to grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. Wow. And all this stuff that you've been doing for a couple of years now, all this podcasting,

[26:41] How did it affect you and your personal life from not the business side as a person? Yeah, it's made me more I Listen, I listen way more to people. I take people more seriously now whereas before I would dismiss many ideas as being the

[27:09] The outgrowth of foolishness, but I don't think like that anymore. So I take more ideas seriously. What about more stuff? I don't. It's made me more articulate.

[27:40] And it's given me while it shattered my worldview over and over and over and over again, it's as if it's given me different frameworks for worldviews rather than any particular worldview. And I don't know how to describe that. Yeah, and in many ways, it's not been pleasant psychologically, it's unsettling. And I lose sleep all the time.

[28:09] About what? It's difficult for me to fall asleep. My mind is racing. It's difficult for me to fall asleep. It's a troubling state of affairs.

[28:32] Because you have a lot of ideas, because you are concerned about the next podcast, because you just changed your world view today on a podcast and you are actually thinking deeply about that. What's the reason behind sometimes losing sleep? No, some of these thoughts are anxiety provoking. Some of the world views and some of what could be or some of what may not be is

[29:03] fearsome and much of my time is spent dealing with that and thinking about that over and over yeah it's it's there's also always never enough almost never enough time to finish all the tasks in a day and so i'm thinking about okay

[29:30] What do I have to do tomorrow? And then now that I'm not sleeping and it's 2 a.m. and I should have been asleep by 10 p.m. What am I going to have to push off from tomorrow? What is essential? OK, how can I rearrange my schedule? But that's minor. That's minor compared to just the trepidation from dealing with other. Frameworks of reality. So

[29:58] For me, when I hear this stuff, yes, it's troubling and challenging to my work views, but I leave them there. But as I understand, you take them with you and you think deeply about them. Are you thinking deeply about them alone or out loud with someone or with friends? I'm not sure. No, I'm thinking alone.

[30:26] That's something else like I'm just so lonely. So like I have a wife and I love my wife. But my wife, we don't discuss this probably for the good. Don't discuss the ideas on the podcast because she just finds them incredibly boring. Like if I say any word that's over two syllables, she yawns and is so hurtful.

[30:48] She just can't help it. She just she doesn't even realize it. So it's so uninteresting to her. And it's great because some people they marry someone who's in their field and then that's all they do is talk about that. And they're ensconced 24 7. So for instance, many mathematicians will marry another mathematician or physicist to marry another physicist. And then they're good. It's great for their output of physical work and mathematical work.

[31:16] But for me, it would be too much. I like the break. Yeah, it seems that you have too much thought about it anyway, so you don't need more discussion. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's a it's a great reprieve. I enjoy being able to to just watch the office, for instance. Yeah.

[31:37] So I'm fantastic. I want to understand a bit more of the details. So you email all the guests, you schedule the time with everyone. Like, do you have a person helping you? No, no. All the guests emailing and scheduling is me. So I have a standard, pretty much standard template that I send out when I'm interested in someone, I'll

[32:07] I'll send it out to them. I have it booked sometimes months in advance and I almost always film at the same time. So that's something that I've learned to do recently is film at the same exact time because I would always go, I would jump through hoops to go through the guest schedule. So there, especially if they're in London or the UK or Australia,

[32:32] Their time has shifted so drastically. And I'd be like, OK, I'll wake up at I'll do it at 8 a.m., which means I have to wake up at 6 a.m. and I have to wake up at 6 a.m. But I often. Will fall asleep at 3 a.m. and so then it would wreck me wreck me so bad. I had to say, you know what? I film every day at either 12 p.m. or 2 p.m. And so if you can't make those slots, then we're going to have to find a day that you can make those slots or we're just not going to film.

[33:02] I need that rigidity and stability in my schedule. I need to be able to oversleep and still make the podcast because it's often that I'll I'll miss my sleeping deadline. So I try to sleep by 10 p.m. or so. It's almost almost every night that I miss it. And and thus I wake up later than I want to. Yeah, so that's helped.

[33:34] That's something I recommend, by the way, to any podcasters. Just keep your podcast filming times consistent. You are big. You are big. You can do that. Well, I did that. I did that when I had about 70 or 80,000 subscribers.

[33:54] So can you walk me through your growth and like it was exponential. It was one year with work with me. Like it's fairly consistent. It's there's nothing. There's there's no large ramp up. It's just been a fairly a fairly smooth glide upward. The first video on the channel, if you see it, it's Noam Chomsky and it has a million views or two million views.

[34:22] That's not actually the first video on the channel. It's just the videos before that were so poor, like they're embarrassing how poor they are. And they're me inserting myself trying to be trying to act like I know what I'm talking about. And it's just so cringe worthy. I feel so embarrassed looking at it. So I'm like, OK, these contribute nothing. They're actually anti-toe, anti-theories of theories of everything.

[34:48] Let me just remove them. This Chomsky one ended up taking off, but there were 20 other videos before that, maybe something like that. And that one happened to be the one that took off. And I'm some I even there I I can't watch. I just I become like a turtle. I cannot watch it. I cringe so drastically.

[35:11] Yeah, it's a pain to watch myself. But anyway, that one took off. And so it looks like the channel was a success from the first video, but it's just that I unlisted or deleted the rest.

[35:21] so we're talking about like can you walk me you were getting like 2 000 views in their first episode after you got two million to that like how was the growth like year by year grow now you have an audience like you got it you got it you got it anything you upload you have views now but i'm sure it was not like that in the beginning well

[35:44] Yeah, I would be happy if I had 1000 views over the course of a month on a video. I remember just wanting it. I wanted my YouTube video. If you went to the video section to look clean, to just have one K like with all the videos, something like that, like nothing that had 900 views or 544 views. I wanted it all to be clean with that singular digit and a K next to it. And I was like, oh man, if I can get that, that'd be so cool. So that's what it was.

[36:12] I don't even know. Maybe the first couple of videos had just a few hundred. It's been it's been so long. Don't know. But yes, then the Noam Chomsky one started to take off. And that was because he's a huge name. Noam Chomsky is a huge name. And I think we were the first people to interview him after like the first amateur people to interview him because he was being interviewed on these large networks like

[36:40] Shit.

[37:04] So it has nothing, well, little to do with the skill, with my skill level or the question. So you're saying that one took off and that kind of gave you the 1,000 then more. Yeah. Yeah. So I, that may have brought me up to 8,000 subscribers or 7,000 subscribers. And then I said, but that was everything. Like I, yeah, man, that was,

[37:31] Yeah, that was plenty. Still is. Now the last question about the podcasting staff and they were moving to the next genre topic. So I want you to walk me through your financial stuff.

[37:51] Yeah, like, like, like, like what? Like what? Well, how much money this podcast makes and like, and all this stuff, if you want to talk. Yeah, sure. Sure. So, so for the first year, not profitable, second year profitable. And then the third year, which has been the last, last year, barely profitable, like super, super, super duper stressful, stressful. And it's because

[38:20] People don't know this, but the main source of revenue for a podcast, maybe even for YouTube channels in general, are sponsorships. And I'm unsure how much of this I can say like legally, which is one of the reasons I was so stressed, so stressed out. But basically, there are people who bring you sponsors. So I have no problem with any of the sponsors on theories of everything. But there are people who bring you sponsors. They're like sponsor brokers.

[38:50] And there were many miscommunications and then there's even someone else suing someone else, like a sponsor broker got a sponsor broker. They have to speak so general about this, but I wasn't even allowed to, I'm not allowed to talk badly about certain people.

[39:09] And I'm not allowed to search or wasn't allowed to search for my own sponsors and there was a large, there's so many videos, like you mentioned, there are many videos that get plenty of views on the channel, zero sponsors on them. And it's great for the viewer. It's not even that great for the viewer because they just skip through sponsor messages if they don't like it.

[39:30] It's not like it's a drastic improvement in the viewing experience to not have a sponsor message, but it's everything to a creator to have one or not. And I wasn't able to have one and there was some I was doing for free. And then you have to, it's such a stress, it's so stressful to even think about. Like I would wake up scratching my head from how stressed out I was and unnerved and frazzled.

[39:57] And that seems to be dissipating. It's just now dissipating where we're starting to make it a profitable enterprise. So, yeah.

[40:10] Okay, very interesting. I was clearing my main channel, YouTube, like if we want to talk numbers as well because I don't have a problem. I'm getting, let's say, $25,000, let's say, sponsored on the main channel and every month I'm getting like a sense of

[40:28] I'd be lucky if I see that much in sponsorship over the course of multiple months.

[40:56] But anyhow, so, yeah. Interesting. So, we're closing the chapter of the podcasting era. Yeah, sure. And I consider you one very wise man. You talk with so many people, so I want to get your take in the questions that you are asking the people.

[41:24] First of all you interviewed all these people about the mind body problem idealist Physicalist and all this stuff. Where do you stand? Well, I'm not an idealist I'm not a physicalist I I'm still learning I I don't It to me that that questions like asking a first-year student what?

[41:52] What theory do they believe in? Like they have ideas, they've heard it, but they're still learning. And I hope to, I hope to be in this stage for the next few years. And I, I think I will be in that stage. And the reason I say hope is because I don't want to prematurely put a, one of the worst aspects of university is that they get you to write your PhD when you're your most creative. So what happens is that you're 22 to 27 when you get your, when you start writing your PhD.

[42:21] And what you do with your PhD is you crystallize on a particular thesis, on a particular subfield of a subfield. And usually develop a point of view that is close to what your advisor is, pretty much. But the point is you develop a point of view. That to me is horrible because

[42:48] You should be flying like a bird and exploring. You don't drill down. And as soon as you drill down, you think, okay, well, I'm going to drill down now and then I'm going to explore later. That rarely happens. Rarely, rarely happens. In fact, you get more ensconced and more entrenched. Sorry, you get more entrenched in your view.

[43:09] I'd rather just take an exploratory approach than say I'm going to live in, in Papua New Guinea. I'm going to just live there and just, or I'm going to live in this Mayan temple and just live there. No, I'd rather explore and see what else there is to the world and then come to some conclusions later. It's also the, the philosophy that I have in mind when I'm interviewing someone. So you're asking me about preparing.

[43:38] What I tend to do is, let's say I'm interviewing, like I mentioned, Chiara Marletto. She's someone who has a theory called constructor theory, which is a general framework for physics. What I do is I research and I learn as much as I can so that it's like, it's as if I've gone, it's as if she's a tour guide of, and what city are you based in by the way? I'm in Cyprus currently, but I live in the United States. I was living in Los Angeles.

[44:09] Hear that sound? That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms.

[44:37] There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone.

[45:03] of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase.

[45:29] Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories. Raise a spoon to grandma who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the play play slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the grandma McFlurry today and participate in McDonald's for a limited time. Okay, so it's as if

[45:57] Chiara Marletto is a tour guide in Los Angeles. Okay so what I could do is I could just be like let me fly to Los Angeles and let's have her show me around or what I can do is I can fly there before like weeks before I learn the ins and outs of different side streets of Los Angeles and then this way me and Chiara Marletto get to explore together and there will be nooks and crannies that I don't know and I can ask about that. So sometimes people would

[46:24] wonder how is it that I'm able to keep up in the podcasts. It's because I've been there before. Like I know where the Mexican joint is around here or where the KFC is. So anyway, that's this exploratory approach is what is what I, I, I take. So you're asking about idealism versus you refuse to take position and to you refuse to, uh,

[46:52] It's not even that I refuse man, it's it's that I just I know I know so much I know of so many times in my past where I've thought adamantly about sorry, I believed adamantly in something. I thought so and so was the case and it wasn't. And and I was so sure about it, that it's undermined my confidence and

[47:15] I just can't. I know too much. As soon as I put up a proposition, I could see five flaws with the proposition. So it's not like I refuse. I can't. I can't. So it's foolish of me to ask you as well about the question of free will. No, it's fine. It's fine. Look, there's some people that think free will exists, and there's some people that don't, and it seems like they're arguing about definitions.

[47:46] rather than the science. So what I find interesting is that there's someone like, some of the people who say that there is no free will, they'll do so by saying, look, you are determined by factors beyond your control. And then to me, my question is, well, what defines you? What do you mean you are determined by factors beyond your control?

[48:14] Because if you're a monist or someone who doesn't believe in dualism, like doesn't believe there's mind and then matter, but believe somehow it's all the same, then what's the difference between you and the physical laws? So if you were to say that the physical laws determine you, you don't determine you. Yeah, but what's the difference between you and the physical laws? So in some sense, you are determining yourself.

[48:43] I I post this to Robert Sapolsky and then he didn't have a satisfactory answer. He didn't. Well. He was thrown by the question, it seemed like it hadn't occurred to him. But anyway, the point is that, like, look, and I have fought, I have arguments against what I just said. It's not like I believe what I just said, but I'm curious to see what when someone says like Robert Sapolsky that he doesn't believe in free will. I'm curious, have you?

[49:10] considered all the arguments against, not all, but have you considered the major arguments against your position? And generally what I find is, is that's not the case. And I'm disappointed because these people are my heroes. And so, but, but, but anyhow, yeah, you can ask me as much as you like about free will. So in a way you believe in everything or do you believe in nothing? No, I don't believe in everything and I don't believe in nothing.

[49:38] So you have some positions? Yeah, I have positions. Whether I can articulate them is different and also whether they're confident enough for me to say is also something else because it's not as if many of my positions change on a monthly basis. So with regard to the free will stance, I used to believe that there is no free will. It's not to say that I believe that there is, but I used to believe

[50:09] That I used to believe with such confidence that there is no free will. But. But the arguments about. I just don't. I don't understand how one can believe like. How can one so assuredly believe that their conclusion that there is no free will? Is a correct conclusion when

[50:38] It's something that, by their own admission, depends on factors that are so chaotic, like the wind in North Carolina 300 years ago, because of the random bouncing around of particles. How does that not undermine their own conviction in their statements? So, in other words, how do they not feel the tension between... It's foolish to have a belief on something that... No, I'm talking specifically about the free will

[51:08] specifically about when someone says that there exists no free will because we are determined by factors that are as arbitrary as whether one brick was placed on the other in Barcelona 600 years ago and through some chaotic effects that just influenced whatever you believe now. How do you not see the tension between your conclusion and the conviction that you hold your conclusion with?

[51:39] So if you're saying, look, if you're saying that my, I don't believe in free will. Why? Well, because, because it rained 500 years ago in this small town. Okay. Why do you then believe that you don't have like, why, why does that not undermine your certainty in it? Like you can say you don't believe it.

[52:04] But it's different to say it so self-assuredly that you're willing to debate people, write a book about it, go on podcasts. Okay. Now I understand what you mean. I never thought about it like that, that actually for them to believe that they're 100% sure, it's a bit weird.

[52:30] Yes. Yeah. And furthermore, in the Robert Sapolsky case, he even admitted that he has he arrived at his no free will stance when he was an early teenager. And that's something else that he hasn't changed for 50 years. Like, why? What else have you arrived at when you were an early teen that you were correct at?

[52:51] Like what is some other theoretical stance on the nature of reality that you believed when you were in your teens that you're still correct about? Almost none of them, if any of them. So the fact that something was arrived at and also you don't have the cognitive ability to come up with something so rational from first principles. You do so out of emotion at that age and maybe even at any age, at least according to some accounts of free will. But

[53:21] I don't want you to refuse to answer because I know you have stuff to say about the AI, the current state and how do you see it evolve? Are you scared? Are you optimistic? And how do you feel about this?

[53:45] I don't know. I don't know. It is worrisome. No, no, but it's just extremely powerful. It's like the Manhattan Project. I remember Einstein said that he would burn his fingers had he known that what what he had signed off as as a yes, like go develop the bomb, what it would actually lead to. He just didn't know the power of his own equations.

[54:11] And it's not that AI will take over. Like people are straw manning on each sideman. It's not like AI will take over like iRobot and they'll embody something. And isn't it as simple as you can shut it down? Firstly, currently, yes, it is as simple as that. But it also is something that can be used to amplify our own inadequacies and insecurities and

[54:38] And malevolent qualities are own. So it's not as if AI is developed in some vacuum. It's something that we interact with. Okay. And then also it's not as if some quote unquote bad actor can't get a hold of of these extremely powerful weapons. And then, and then third, it's not as if there's such a thing as unintended consequences. We have no idea.

[55:04] When we're dealing with something extremely powerful and almost everyone agrees, they're powerful and extremely powerful at that. And that's in their current form. There's the saying that people love to. Like there's this guy named Two Minute Papers on YouTube. I think he so gleefully says, oh, and and. What a time to be alive, he'll say, and I'm like, oh my gosh, man, like you're so optimistic and you just don't see any downsides. You don't talk about them.

[55:33] So I can see it. Yeah, well. Yeah, I see both sides that it can help cure diseases like advanced cancer research or or help develop a more efficient form of energy or technology that takes up plenty of energy currently.

[56:02] Yeah. And so it's, it's, it's wonderful. So it will talk more about the problems that kind of care. Should we talk more about the optimism in the current state? Should we just develop and shut up? No, I think the people who are developing should think about the consequences of what they're doing. There's a story about the,

[56:30] About the manhattan project with fineman richard fineman and he was saying look we didn't know what we were doing like we didn't actually care we have fun writing the equations and writing papers and performing experiments we didn't think about where is this going to be used. Whose lives will suffer he said that came about afterward.

[56:53] And so the same as with engineers, like it's, it's fun, even with this podcast that I have, it's fun to talk to people. It's fun to deal with ideas. It's fun to research. It's fun to produce something that people seem to find useful. It's fun. It's not fun to think about, well, what are also the negative side effects and just keep that in mind. It doesn't mean that that has to win out.

[57:22] Daniel Dennett said, how are you going to solve the AI alignment problem? How are you going to solve it? What is the good proposal to do it? I don't know. To me, it doesn't mean you'd stop research. I like that people are talking about it and I like that people aren't talking about it as well. I love to hear, I love it when someone says that it's overblown, that this whole AI

[57:46] Fear mongering is overblown. I love that because I want to hear I hope that's the case I wanted to be true that it's all just like any other technology like the calculator when it came out and some people were in upheaval Great explain to me why I would love that So I'm glad that there are people like you let yawn lacoon from Facebook from Metta Anyhow so

[58:15] You are kind of happy with what is happening, like with the current concern and with the current innovation and with the current optimism as well. Like you want this to continue, this trend as I understand. Yeah, I just want there to be overall concern and there seems to be that.

[58:46] Just as there is with with anything else and I like that there's people who say that you shouldn't be concerned like there are some people who say you should be concerned about banning guns and there's some people who say you should be concerned about not banning guns and I like personally I like to hear both sides and I like it when

[59:10] Yeah, I'd like to hear it. It doesn't mean that there should always be a debate. It doesn't mean that we should endlessly debate whether or not the Holocaust was a good thing. That's a bit foolish to me. At some point, you have to put a stake in the ground. Larry Page and Elon Musk had, I don't know if you are aware, a famous argument about one Larry Page, CEO of Google being a species,

[59:37] and Elon Musk supporting humans. So basically the argument, it's one second and I just clicked something in the VR world, now I'm K. It's funny guys, I'm still in the VR. So that argument was that a lot of page beliefs let evolution do its thing and if we get extinct as a species on the way,

[60:04] Let it be and Elon Musk is saying, no, let's make sure 100% that we're going to prevent and make sure this and make sure that humans will be good in the future. So this is what do you think about this and do you have any personal opinion about this?

[60:39] I don't see why Larry would say that. I would need to know more about that position. Well, maybe. Let's say we stop AI because we want humans to survive or something like that. Maybe we're stopping, actually. Imagine the future.

[61:07] The point is that, look, it's such a fatalistic

[61:13] Sorry to interrupt you. No, it's such a fatalistic point of view, because Larry's company Google and Alphabet itself has statements on and being anti climate change. Why do you even care about that? Why don't you just say, hey, let the climate do whatever it's like it does. And let's just die in the process if it's if it's going to. So to me, it seems like he's if that's his claim is that let the chips fall where they may. Well, then let the chips fall where they may don't.

[61:41] There's a performative contradiction between that statement and then how the company at least publicizes itself. Well, I just don't see why you can't take that argument and apply it further. If that's the logic, why can't you just apply it in other domains? Why not just

[62:06] Why not have, why not eradicate laws? Why not have no traffic? Because we might stop something very important on the way. Let's say the age, I will go and colonize the whole universe and find different universes. And let's say that

[62:26] If AI has consciousness, then an AGI will have consciousness or something like that. They were going to stop all this stuff from happening if we don't, if we put some limits now. And that's why he say let evolution do its thing because it doesn't want properly to get us to get in a way in all the exponential magic that will happen with this thing.

[62:54] Yeah, well, if that's what his claim is, then, then I would question where does he get that the value where does he value where does where does he get the value of this exponential magic? Why does he value this exploration of space by AI? Like, where, where does that come from? Who's to say that that's more valuable? Where does this objective morality come from?

[63:16] Or this objective valuation and now we're coming to the debate that we are having now in the world like our machines going to be conscious and if they are conscious.

[63:27] They have more or less freedom rights than us. Yeah. So the Turing test is less of a test of the computer's intelligence and more a test of our models of ourself. So for instance, you can get a five-year-old to be

[63:49] Okay, so you don't think... Continue, I'm sorry for interrupting. Oh.

[64:19] No, no, no. What I was going to say is that it doesn't matter whether in some ways it matters, obviously, whether or not a computer is conscious. But what also matters or what matters even more is whether or not we or the majority of people think it's conscious. And that can happen. Well, whether does it matter that you are conscious? Yeah.

[64:43] Yeah, it matters. Well, why not? It doesn't matter for a computer to be conscious. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for a computer. But what I mean is that it matters more that other people think it's conscious. Why? If other if if other people think that you are conscious, it changed. You still can experience chocolate. Yeah.

[65:12] Well, I mean for society at large, it matters that people think computers are conscious. If people don't think computers are conscious and computers are conscious, well, that's poor for the computers, but it has less of an impact on society. Whereas if we think computers are conscious and they're not conscious, it has the same exact effect.

[65:39] as if computers were conscious and we think that they're conscious. So? So what? So are computers conscious? Is that what you're asking me? No, I want you to explore this idea more because it's interesting. So if that's right, what you're saying, then what? This is what I mean with my poor English when I asked. So

[66:09] Let me think of an analogy. Hear that sound?

[66:19] That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms.

[66:45] There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone

[67:11] of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase.

[67:37] Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today at participating McDonald's for a limited time.

[68:07] Yes, it's tricky because it does matter whether or not they're conscious, but it also matters whether or not we think they're conscious So there's a difference. So some people have it matters or it matters to them Said that to us. I'm speaking about to us. So

[68:25] Yeah, and we have no idea if whatever consciousness they have is going to be the same sort of consciousness. We have no idea if they have the same continuity of self. So that's something that people just assume while a computer can replicate itself. What makes you think that it believes its own replication is going to be an instance of itself rather than a competitor? And that's also an open question is something called narrow representationalism. Can you clone yourself if your clone was just a copy of your brain?

[68:54] Would that then be you? Or does the concept of you also have to deal with the external environments and all your interactions there as well? And so in cognitive science, there's something called the four E's of cognitive science. I don't remember what it used to be, but I know this is considered like the third wave of cognitive science. The four E's. It's your embodied, your enacted, meaning you have some actions. Your cognition is also action. It's also embodied. So it's part of your body, not just in your brain, not just in your encephalon, I mean.

[69:23] And then it's extended, meaning that we use computers and pens and glasses and so on. Well, glasses aren't a tool. Yeah, no, maybe that counts. I don't I don't see how the case could be made, though. But your cognition is extended. I forgot what the other is. So there's embodied, enacted, extended. Hmm.

[69:54] Embodied, enacted, extended. Someone else can fill in the other E. But the point is that it's not clear to me if you clone someone. Does that clone all aspects of their cognition? Does that clone them? Does that mean that that new one is them, quote unquote?

[70:12] Is that clone? Yeah, so that's that's what I'm saying. Some people think that it's that AI can live forever because it can clone itself. It's not clear to me then that a sufficiently advanced intelligence would not also have a different model of what it means to be the self. Maybe our model of what it means to be some self is super poor, just like we think that whatever a three year old's model of itself is, is super poor. So you think this

[70:41] is with them having consciousness, the machines having consciousness is a lot. I'm not sure exactly what you said with that. I would ask for you to clarify a bit the last thoughts about the three E's and also the last thing that you mean with the whole. What do you mean exactly about that?

[71:08] Related to the previous conversation because I was I was lost in your beautiful rhythm of thought Okay, so what I'm saying is I'm just saying it's not clear to me that a copy of a program. So let's say I

[71:29] You have Riverside running right now on your computer and I have it running on mine and we both say it's it's Riverside quote-unquote running on mine. We say it's Riverside running on yours as if they're just instantiations of Riverside. Okay, rather than they're two separate completely separate so much so that we'd give them a different name one is Bob one is Alice.

[71:50] so we think of a compute we often say this you can mind upload or a computer can live forever because it's just a program that the program is just the information we have no idea if that's the case we don't even we don't even if it is the case we don't know if the computer program itself would look at another instantiation of itself another copy as itself or if it would look at that as a competitor

[72:17] In the same way, some twins have twin rivalry. You think, oh, why don't they view themselves as as look, if I die, at least my twin lives on and therefore I live. But I wish you are that they're copying themselves and maybe it's not just a machine that lives for like, I don't know, and just upgrades or something. Yeah, that's that's something else. Are you the same person as you were when you were five years old? There's this great paradox called the

[72:46] The paradox of the heap or sorority is paradox. When does, if you have one grain of sand, you just call it a grain of sand, but at some point you put enough grains of sand, like two, three, four, and you make a heap, a heap of sand, a little hill of sand. At what point? Was it at the 10th grain? Was it at the 300th grain? At some point you make this arbitrary cutoff. And so it's difficult to say

[73:10] Yeah, that's that's an eight. You're raising an age old philosophical problem that may be one of the deepest philosophical problems. I happen to think it is. I think that the the paradox of the heap or sororities paradoxes is at the heart of almost all of our. Of our. Contemporary philosophical problems. Are you ready for the question that I ask all the guests? Sure.

[73:39] I give you one trillion dollars with the goal to have a maximum impact, positive impact in the planet. How do you spend it? OK, so I have like I have one

[74:08] I think they're both serious answers, but it's going to sound not serious. I'm a germaphobe, and I just have fantasies. I imagine all the time, I fantasize about this, that there are robots that will clean

[74:30] The washrooms because I feel so bad for janitors feel so bad so bad for janitors. I think people mistreat them. They're not paid enough. I think it's like the I can't do that job. I don't know how any anyhow. She's what they have to deal with. So I envision robots back and I vision like every aspect of the robot like how's the robot going to clean itself because I don't want people to maintain the robot. That's just as bad as the as you cleaning the washrooms yourself.

[74:59] So I would develop some way of of cleaning washrooms so people never have to do that. And some sort of repair of homes and self-construction of homes. OK, so that's the it's somewhat serious, but it's also facetious answer. But then the other answer is that very, very unique answer, by the way, I never had anything close to this.

[75:26] Part of part of it is that is that I think that the quality of your society is the quality which you take care of your homeless people. So you need to build homes and the widows and the orphans. There's like a common trope in almost all religions about widows, orphans and the homeless. So whatever takes care of them. So that's one. But then the other answer is just that it's too much power and I just have to give you the trillion dollars right back.

[75:55] And give it to less responsible people. Or you can destroy it. In Harry Potter, the the end they had, he had the most powerful wand. I think I don't recall what it's called. Someone else can fill that in. The elder wand, I think it was the elder wand, elder wand. And then he could do whatever he wanted with this wand. And his friends asked him, what are you going to do next now that Voldemort is defeated? And he breaks in and throws it away.

[76:25] And to me, that's the, that's the right answer to unlimited power is you break in and throw it away. What about those people that you could show is really like, it's a very poetic, very interesting, very philosophical answer. But, uh,

[76:55] People would live with something, I don't know, less in a way, the opportunity cost. The problem is that I can't, I don't trust myself to be motivated by goodness. And it's not clear to me that with

[77:23] a large enough weapon that I would just do more good than harm. And I think that that's always the case. I think that almost it's it's it's it's it's extremely tricky. I understand. I understand. Super tricky, super tricky. Well, but that's pretty that's why. So the robots, the self-cleaning robots,

[77:50] And I also, by the way, imagine like I have several solutions to this man. Like I thought about nanomachines that can build their own toilet and then deconstruct the toilet. So instead, you don't even need to clean the washroom. I have many ideas on this. So maybe it'll maybe I'll just be like, I'll default back, like, you know, give me back that trillion. I'll invest in it. This blew my mind, actually, sunset was good, but too much power.

[78:20] And also the toilets as well blew my mind. This is what I've been very curious about, democracy. It's a shitty system. If it has hopes to actually function better and stuff. So what are your thoughts about democracy?

[78:51] I have no clue, man. That's a whole other can of worms. Yeah, I don't know. So just so you know, Plato didn't think we should have democracy. He thought we should have philosopher kings. There's only two people as far as I know in history who thought that and one was Thomas Hobbes, the other was was Plato. So Plato would be the type that would say, give me the trillion or give it to someone wise.

[79:26] I don't know, but why don't you think about this? When has there ever been the case that someone has positively spent billions of dollars? When has there ever been the case of that? Like many people questioned, I don't know enough about this, but many people question Bill Gates motivations because he sure he's doing good, but he's consolidating global influence and that is more powerful than money.

[79:54] At least, at least according to some accounts, I haven't looked into that. The point is that of all the charitable people, of all the people who have spent the most money on so-called charity, Bill Gates would be near the top. And even those questions and sorry, and even those motivations are deeply questioned. So you mean about more about power that I don't know. I'm just I I stay out of that.

[80:23] I'm just saying that these are the different views on it. And so what my response is to that trillion dollar question is, show me a case in history, like five cases.

[80:36] There should be five, at least five cases where someone has done something extremely positive, almost unanimously agreed upon with their obscene amounts of money. Well, I cannot do that. SpaceX is probably one of these example. OK, that's one. That's right. I'm not saying I'm not accepting that. I'm just saying that if hypothetically, if one was to accept it, that would just still just be one one example.

[81:03] And that's a for-profit enterprise. You are. But yeah, I don't know, man. It's a great question. It's a fun one. I'll probably think about it as I am up at 2 a.m. No, please. It's more fun than what I usually do. It's more lighthearted and mirthful. What about my question of democracy? Do you have any thoughts on that?

[81:33] I don't know. In religious texts, there's an emphasis on God's kingdom, which is distinct from human kingdoms. So maybe you pay attention to doing good.

[82:05] Keep your eye on God's kingdom. I don't know. So you think democracy is functioning or dysfunctional system?

[82:22] I don't know. The political questions are far too complicated for me. I prefer string theory to the political questions.

[82:46] I think there are less variables in string theory than there are in political questions. I think people's answers to political questions are so motivated by their own are so deeply ingrained by their personalities, which is handed to them by their in large part by their social environment and their and their genetics. And so they're influenced by factors that they haven't examined, yet they state them with such. Hmm.

[83:16] Audacity and unquestioningly they state them as if they're these inexorable truths with conviction. They state them with conviction. Yeah, and I don't know if they realize if they

[83:41] weren't so open or were less open in terms of the personality test, there's ocean, so openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism, that basically those five in large part determine your political beliefs. And those five are genetic, are largely genetic. And so let's say 30% of your political beliefs are just because of something that is way beyond your control.

[84:09] It's a can of worms. It's a problem with a thousand different factors. And I prefer the 26 parameters of the standard model. Oh, I never thought that. Yes, that's probably right that democracy or all these political questions that

[84:36] A lot more complex because they have so much more variables in comparison to some scientific problems. Yeah, they also come down to values. I don't know how people justify their values. And then when someone will say, well, I just wanted to produce less suffering. Well, then what is a utilitarian view? So it's just whatever produces less suffering as a whole.

[84:57] So what if I was to say that there was some alien civilization that would benefit tremendously off of our own global suffering, but their consciousness is far beyond ours and they get pleasure out of it? Are you saying that that's okay? You can perform so many thought experiments that demonstrate a lack of cohesion in most worldviews. Maybe in all of them, I don't know. Yeah, this goes back to these thoughts that I have that

[85:28] are just, it leaves me a straddle, yeah, a straddle and tentative, because I can see, I can see inadequacies. They just come to me, that's why interviewing people is so easy, because like, it's so easy to formulate questions, they just occur like,

[85:54] Three instantaneously when someone says something, I just have to hold myself back. Podcasting is like it's always like super hard because I can't ask all the questions I want to. But it's extremely easy because I have an abundance of them. Yeah.

[86:19] A lot of people struggle to come up with something to ask. For example, my father has a big problem with asking questions. He sits there, he doesn't ask questions. But you seem to have no problem to come up with millions of questions at once.

[86:48] On that end, I have an exercise a bit later that I'm curious to see that in action. But for now, kind of to close this chapter, I wanted to ask you because you think very deeply about stuff. And I'm not sure if I understood if you are an optimistic person or a pessimistic person. I would say optimistic.

[87:19] And one of the reasons is because it seems like there are aspects of this world which are self-fulfilling prophecies, in which case it pays to be optimistic. So you are not optimistic. You ask so that being optimistic is better and that's why you are optimistic. Well, it seems to be the case that

[87:50] There exists a phenomenon called self-fulfilling prophecies. It's unclear to me how much of the world comprises these. By the way, I'm also inconsistent, terribly inconsistent, so it's... Yeah, I'd say I'm optimistic overall.

[88:14] But optimistic to what? I don't know. Humans may be annihilated, but I'm optimistic that if it was to be annihilated, it would be for the good and it would still work out for us in the end. It would still work out. Like, I have faith that even when it doesn't work out, it will still work out. I don't know how to square that. Oh, pretty satisfied with the answer. And now for the moment that everyone has been waiting for.

[88:44] and me included. I won two in one and a half hour actually which is very exciting. So I'm curious because

[89:01] You can understand how emotionally excited I am about this taking it off for 30 days in a VR headset. I'm curious to see what you are curious about me doing this challenge for 30 days.

[89:19] I want to know, are you sleeping with it on and then opening your eyes and that's what you're seeing first? Sleeping, showering. I didn't take it off for the last... How do you shower with that on though? I shower under here and sometimes I shower three times my hair. So I went to the barber shop and they have these things that they do the hair. So I disconnected this part and I was holding the front and they showered my hair. So I never took this headset off.

[89:47] for the last 30 days. And I was live streaming consistently on my channel. So people make sure Okay, well, yeah, I'm just I'm I'm curious to know what your eyesight is going to be like right afterward and how long it will take to get adjusted. Because I know that when I just stare at my screen for a few hours, it hurts my eyes. And then I can't even look. Yeah, my my vision gets blurry. So I'm super curious.

[90:20] I wish you the best. I'm just curious. I hope that it's great for you because then it means I could stare at my screen longer. I can study for longer. There's hope.

[90:31] So I just want to point out some small things for this. I'm not sure. This has never been done before, so I don't know. Maybe I'm hurting myself too much. So guys, don't try this at home that you are watching.

[90:50] I do this stuff by the way out of curiosity because I want to see and taste and put my toes keep my toes into the future. So with wearing this headset, I

[91:09] I feel that we're not going to have phones in the future because it's very convenient to see everything like now I'm like bringing even with my dashboard here I have my dashboard in front of me by the way I'm recording this on my headset as well so people after they will see what I'm watching now and I kind of

[91:27] Click Instagram, I can close Instagram, I can open WhatsApp, and it's super convenient to have like a big screen in front of you and position it everywhere that you want. So with doing these things and kind of seeing

[91:43] how the future looks like. By the way, I just want to say like this was hugely, hugely, hugely impactful for me. Like the way that you do things, the way that you see things deeply and the way that you do your podcast as well inspires me as well to do a lot of things. And probably you don't think about this, your impact that you have to others with your podcast, other podcasters, the humans, but

[92:11] It's very exciting for me to have this opportunity. And now with the last question. You are going to die after this podcast.

[92:21] And if you actually die in like 10, 20, 30 years from now, people can come back and look at this 30, 40 seconds to hear your message, what you have to say. This 30, 40 seconds was your actual last words, what you had to say to the world.

[92:53] well it would be to my wife I would direct it to my wife and I would say I love you and it would be okay everything will be okay if it was to the world I don't I don't like I be good locally and take care of the widows and orphans and the homeless have some criteria that when you interact with with a

[93:23] a homeless person you give some amount of money something like that like have some rules about that and help the help the the people who need help and I know I understand that that that's some kind of that's in that stands or seems to stand in contradiction with the trillion dollar throwing away but I think there's something much there's something more powerful about

[94:04] Yeah, about us. About us all. About doing our part. Doing one's part. And that's different. It's different. It's more meaningful. Way, way more meaningful. And I just don't trust myself with the money. But anyway.

[94:26] That's all. It would be directed to my wife if anything. Thank you so much. I love you. Thank you for your time. And I wish you to have the best 2024 of your life. Thank you, man. You as well, man. Take care.

[94:40] If you enjoyed this and you would like to hear more from me, then there are a couple examples of me being interviewed. One is coming up. You've heard me interview Jesse Michaels. Well, Jesse Michaels interviewed me one year ago and we're going to be mirroring it on this platform. Also, there are Ask Me Anythings and you can just search on YouTube or hear AMA's Kurt. There are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma loves you and she would never say no to McDonald's. So treat yourself to a Grandma McFlurry

[95:08] Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today.

[95:23] . . . . . . .

▶ View Full JSON Data (Word-Level Timestamps)

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      "text": " The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze."
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      "text": " A popular YouTuber named Phidias, who has over 2 million subscribers, just got the Guinness World Record for the longest time spent consecutively in VR. Congratulations to him. It was an experiment where he was under VR for 30 days straight. I don't know how he did it, but on his last hour, he interviewed me for his channel. It was an honor not only to be included in such a challenge, but to be the last activity that he did prior to removing his VR goggles. Enjoy this episode where Phidias interviewed me for his channel. Links to his socials are in the description."
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      "text": " If you enjoyed this and you would like to hear more from me, then there are a couple examples of me being interviewed. One is coming up. You've heard me interview Jesse Michaels. Well, Jesse Michaels interviewed me one year ago and we're going to be mirroring it on this platform. Also, there are Ask Me Anythings and you can just search on YouTube or hear AMA's Kurt. I have no interest in speaking to Joe Rogan or Andrew Huberman and not that I have anything against him. It's just I have no interest in it."
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      "text": " There's this popularizer of science named Neil deGrasse Tyson. I find that what he does is give the high school explanation, sometimes even the middle school explanation of some phenomenon, and then you're left wondering, what the heck does that even mean? It gets you excited about science, but then it actually doesn't teach you science. It's positive in some ways, but I prefer the more precise statements."
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      "text": " I have a wife and I love my wife, but we don't discuss the ideas on the podcast because she just finds them incredibly boring. Yeah. And in many ways it's not been pleasant psychologically. It's unsettling and I lose sleep all the time. My mind is racing. It's a troubling state of affairs."
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      "text": " First of all we need to get the elephant out of the room. I have this VR headset because I'm breaking the world record of the person that had the longest time a VR headset. Currently I'm 29 days in the VR headset and tonight finally in a couple of hours I'm going to take it off. It will be the day thirsty and yes we have with us"
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      "text": " Kurt Jal Magas. I'm not sure if I did that correctly. And first question is, who are you? Yeah, that's pretty great. Pretty close. Kurt Jai Mungle. It's like my jungle, but with Jai Mungle. All right. So I am"
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      "text": " I'm a podcaster. I have a podcast called theories of everything, where we explore the fundamental nature of reality. So the cosmos, what are the laws of physics? What is consciousness? What is the relationship between those three and more?"
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      "text": " the largest questions that are about the nature of reality. So you are, you are not just a podcaster though. You left a lot of things on the table. I know. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Give us more. Like what? Like what? Yeah. My background, I used to, my background's in mathematical physics and I had a whole filmmaking stint and I still carry some of those skills over to the podcast itself. I did some standup comedy before."
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      "text": " And I believe that's about it. At least that's publicly known. Wow. Okay. And why did you start your podcast? It was during the pandemic. So I was doing a documentary and I was releasing some of those interviews online, just unedited. And then that started to get some traction. And I preferred that there's someone named Donald Hoffman. I don't know if you know who that is. He's been on the podcast."
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      "text": " Okay, so Don believes that the nature of reality is such that consciousness is fundamental and furthermore that you can derive this and that physics says this. And so he made many of these claims and they tend to blow people's minds when they hear it. But my mind"
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      "start_time": 321.613,
      "text": " isn't so easily blown, especially when someone's saying that they have mathematics to back it up. And I'm like, OK, great. I love math. I can understand math. I feel like I can bring something new to the interview scene because most people just take him on his word. So let me look into his research. Let me read the PDFs and then let me see, do his claims match his derivations? Only the one human being in the world that sought to do that, that had the passion to do that. Yeah."
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      "text": " Right, right. And so there's this large three hour podcast with with Donald and it's the only one that seems to be the one that questions the technicalities. And that took off and that is like exciting every bone in my body and so started to do more and more of that and that became theories of everything."
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      "start_time": 372.671,
      "text": " Okay. How about you, man? How did your channel start? Now, I am a wannabe podcaster. Now you are switching the table, the actual podcaster there. So, my passion is learning."
    },
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      "text": " So I want to understand everything around me. So hopefully with this knowledge, I can take some action. Now I'm 23 when I'm 30 to make, I don't know, some sustainable business that help the world in a way. That's kind of my vision, just to understand everything. But also along the way is to share everything and like"
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      "text": " Now I'm trying to, I don't know, I'm uploading on TikTok. I'm trying to get a bit the younger generation into this philosophy and consciousness that you are talking. But it's hard because it's hard for them to understand all this stuff and slowly get into it. But yeah. Right. The younger generation younger than you? About my age. But yeah, my viewers are mostly younger than me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's great, man. That's great. You're passionate about learning everything around you. What do you mean by that?"
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      "text": " to understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, is there anything beyond what meets our eye. So I'm a big fan of the podcast and it's like of your podcast because"
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      "text": " It's very, I appreciate a lot more because I've been a YouTuber. I don't know. I have like two and a half million subscribers on the main channel that we have the entertainment, but this podcast seems a completely different game. And it's like very hard because I'm very hard to grow a podcast, very hard to do all these things. And it's like, uh, I wanted to hear that today also kind of your backstory of how you built everything, how, because I, I, I know there is a lot,"
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      "start_time": 494.002,
      "text": " People think that just you jump on a call with someone and you record it, but I want to learn no yes so much more yes enlighten us, please sure sure so you want to know about how The episodes are prepared for or what goes into it that to it afterward or during or what? Everything how they what how do you prepare for the guests? How do you choose the guests and? everything okay"
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      "text": " The choosing of the guest is more intuition. So well, okay, so I have large questions such as, let's say, what is so quantum gravity, there are various approaches to quantum gravity. How do you combine quantum field theory with general relativity? So the theory of it's, it's explained like the theory of the large with the theory of the small, many people know this is a large unsolved problem, the largest maybe unsolved problem in physics."
    },
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      "text": " If I'm interviewing someone in quantum gravity, well, there are various approaches. There's string theory, there's loop quantum gravity, there's other approaches. Then if I take one of them, to understand one, you need to understand quite a few other steps. So then I'm thinking, okay, who is a step on that ladder that is an expert on that step that leads up to where I'm trying to go? Almost like courses in university."
    },
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      "start_time": 577.295,
      "text": " In math, you don't take a fourth year math course before you take a second year math course because the knowledge builds on one another. So with guest selection, I think about, OK, where am I going? Broadly speaking, it's not always one defined goal. Like in the example I gave you was quantum gravity. That's one often it's fields to explore. And so I think, OK, well, what is interesting to me along the way that can that can elucidate my later journey as well as the present one?"
    },
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      "end_time": 634.48,
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      "start_time": 606.749,
      "text": " So that's how I choose guests generally. Then how do I prepare? So I just spoke to Chiara Marlowe. One second, I have a question about that. So it's not based on, oh, these two people will get a lot of views. Let's match. No, no, no, no. So there are many times where"
    },
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      "end_time": 658.114,
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      "start_time": 635.981,
      "text": " There are many people that could be interviewed that would get plenty of views. So for instance, there's Andrew Huberman, and there's the people that you would see over and over in the podcast scene. I purposefully stay away from them for a couple of reasons. One is because I want to create a distinctive flavor to the channel. And I feel like I just feel like I would be selling out. I feel like it would water down the uniqueness"
    },
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      "end_time": 683.473,
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      "start_time": 658.677,
      "text": " But that's just my it's like I have a filmmaking side. It's my artistic side. It's my creative side. That's that's saying that there's also a business side that's not saying that. And then there are people who are saying like, Kurt, you've got to bring on these large guests. You have to you have to. And so it's this constant fight. And so far, I've won. But we'll see. We'll see. So is based. Yeah. So for instance, yeah. So is based on"
    },
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      "start_time": 684.326,
      "text": " Actually, your intuition, when you're learning your personal path of learning your questions, your personal questions. Yeah, and some of that is influenced, like you mentioned, it will inadvertently be some people who get large views, because it's my it's people that I've looked up to for years and years and years, which means they have a reputation. So for instance, there's Daniel Dennett, someone I just interviewed. Yes, he's someone I've"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 739.855,
      "index": 29,
      "start_time": 714.087,
      "text": " been researching for like 10 years, and then there's Richard Dawkins that may come up. So those just by the nature of me knowing about the means they have some name. So it's it's implicit, but it's not explicit. OK, I understand. And how? Yeah, like I'm sure you feel similarly like, hey, you have this platform and I don't want to mispronounce your name for this, right? Fiddeus, Fiddeus. OK, I will go and die."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 761.732,
      "index": 30,
      "start_time": 740.333,
      "text": " All right, exactly. Yeah. So you have this huge platform and you get to speak to whoever you want. In fact, you not only get to do that with your podcast, you get to make videos on your other main channel on virtually any topic that you want. Yes. Yes, they are the main channel. Actually, I actually follow the theories. What? OK, what?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 782.346,
      "index": 31,
      "start_time": 762.295,
      "text": " I don't want to get zero views. I will not talk about in the main channel about entertainment, about quantum gravity and let go. It will be a challenge, a human physical challenge, but it's what I want to do. But actually in the podcast stuff is that I'm not sitting like that. I'm not just following my curiosity."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 808.558,
      "index": 32,
      "start_time": 782.346,
      "text": " Yeah, yeah, it's it's almost entirely just curiosity. Luckily."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 837.688,
      "index": 33,
      "start_time": 809.224,
      "text": " but aren't you into a curious to learn about Andrew Huberman? Let's say like if you, if you like you, you're curious about everything. So you can like kind of say an excuse, okay, I can talk with anybody in a way. I don't know if that's. Yeah, I could, I could, but then I would have to question my motivation because I'd have to be contriving some reason to speak to Andrew Huberman or who else is large Joe Rogan. I don't, I have no interest in,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 866.988,
      "index": 34,
      "start_time": 838.575,
      "text": " In speaking to Joe Rogan, not that I have anything against him. It's just I have no interest in it. I have no interest in speaking to Andrew Huberman other than to discuss nootropics or sleep. Like what can aid learning? So if I was going to speak to Huberman, it would be about that. But I can't just let's say Andrew Huberman had something interesting to say about some controversial topic. Israel or Andrew Tate. And any time you interview him on that, he gets two million views. I can't I can't interview him on that then."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 892.961,
      "index": 35,
      "start_time": 867.193,
      "text": " Because it's just, it's just, it wouldn't feel right, at least to me. Okay. I understand. How do you match the guests? Match them, meaning like for the theolocutions? Yeah. But, and by the way, you know that you are the only person in the world that uses that word, right? Theolocutions. Yeah. Yeah. How do you match them?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 914.241,
      "index": 36,
      "start_time": 893.251,
      "text": " and i'm curious to learn more about this word because usually it's a debate but you chose to name it that's right that's right yeah so theolocution comes from the root means okay i was toying with calling it theomachy which is a term that means the battling of the gods like the greek gods battling one another"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 944.411,
      "index": 37,
      "start_time": 914.804,
      "text": " But it's not a battle, it's speaking, it's like God speaking to one another, so theolocution. Locution means to speak, loquacious is another word for that. They share the same root. Then, yeah, and it's a tongue-in-cheek reference to how I look up to these people. It also is not, yeah, it's also just, it's my term for the Socratic method with endearment and love, because"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 973.131,
      "index": 38,
      "start_time": 945.418,
      "text": " Many people pride themselves on following Socrates, but Socrates was quite sardonic and sarcastic to people. It wasn't like this. It wasn't terribly conducive to eliciting new ideas. At least that's my impression. Plato, all we know about Socrates is what comes from Plato. We have no idea if that's exactly how the dialogues went. And if you look at it, if you read it, it doesn't sound like that's something that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 989.497,
      "index": 39,
      "start_time": 973.456,
      "text": " Socrates is constantly critiquing people and people don't generate, generally speaking, new ideas when they're being critiqued. They become defensive. So how about we have two people who have contrasting views, explore ideas together rather than trying to debate. That's the theolocution."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1011.903,
      "index": 40,
      "start_time": 989.923,
      "text": " And also you give them unlimited time. So in general debates, they're like, Hey, you have 10 minutes. Let's hear your opening statement. What the heck is an opening statement, man? But that already puts someone with a stake in the ground. And then someone else has to now attack or defend their stake, attack someone else, stake or defend their own. I don't, I'm not a fan of that. I also find that to be too manipulated."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1039.753,
      "index": 41,
      "start_time": 1012.858,
      "text": " And then you're like, OK, I'm going to give you five minutes to respond. Now you have five minutes. I'm going to mute your mic. I'm going to I don't like that. Let's let's have them talk and let's have them talk over one another. As long as they agree to do so prior respectfully, then it's going to be interesting to me and interesting to them. Some people have had new ideas come from this that articles have been written on, like articles as in research articles. And I don't imagine that that well,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1069.036,
      "index": 42,
      "start_time": 1040.64,
      "text": " I can't speak for everyone. But anyway, how do I match two people? I listen to the comments. So there are a variety of comments to say you should get this person to speak to this person. I'm also aware of the field. I know who knows who believes in free will and who doesn't believe in free will, for instance, and who would be a great guest. I understand who whose personalities may clash, but in an interesting manner. And then you just you take a gamble and you hope some of the times that it's only hope that it's"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1094.019,
      "index": 43,
      "start_time": 1069.821,
      "text": " It's positive. Sometimes it's not, it's not always positive, but there's this saying that if you're not failing 10% of the time, then you're not trying hard enough, something like that. Yes. Elon Musk says 20. Ah, okay. Great. Yeah. So that's that. So what's your role in a podcast?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1121.852,
      "index": 44,
      "start_time": 1094.48,
      "text": " Let's say when you have a theolo-cution, you just shut up and listen. What is the... Yeah, I'm just listening and then I'll guide the conversation along if there's a lull or if they're locking heads for too long, then I can try and point out where the disagreement is or I can summarize so I can serve as a proxy for the audience to"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1151.442,
      "index": 45,
      "start_time": 1123.268,
      "text": " to bring them along to the journey because often it's extremely technical. And how do you manage this position? Because you are a knowledgeable person yourself. For me, it's very easy. I don't need to pretend that I'm a proxy. I'm actually a proxy without knowledge and asking the stupid question. But how do you make sure that you dumb down sometimes the conversation for everyone to understand?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1182.91,
      "index": 46,
      "start_time": 1153.046,
      "text": " Yeah, I try not to... I almost never simplify, so that's one of the reasons why the channel has a different flavor, is that it stays at the technical level, as precise as it can be, as rigorous as it can be. It's rarely that we'll say, okay... I can't even say it because I don't know when we'll say it, but... There's this popularizer of science named Neil deGrasse Tyson,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1211.032,
      "index": 47,
      "start_time": 1183.558,
      "text": " And I find that what he does, which is great for the public and he has much accolades and good for him. But I find that what he does is give the high school explanation, sometimes even the middle school explanation of some phenomenon. And then you're left as at university or as a as an astute high school student wondering what the heck does that even mean? Like it just it gets you excited about science, but then it actually doesn't teach you science. So it's like rhetoric. It's it's"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1238.882,
      "index": 48,
      "start_time": 1211.186,
      "text": " Which it's good because it's positive in some ways, but I prefer the more precise statements. So for instance, with Donald Hoffman and Philip Goff recently, Donald Hoffman is someone who's an idealist who believes consciousness is fundamental, but he's also a non-dualist. So there's different types of people who believe consciousness is fundamental. Whereas Philip Goff is a Cosmopsychist."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1266.715,
      "index": 49,
      "start_time": 1239.326,
      "text": " I believe a Cosmopsychist, meaning he used to be a Panpsychist, believing that particles had some element of consciousness to them, but now he's a Cosmopsychist that believes something more general, that the cosmos itself is alive and has purpose to it. Okay, so Don is speaking to Philip Goff, and then he's making plenty of claims, and he's saying these claims are predicated in physics. They're contingent on physics."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1296.886,
      "index": 50,
      "start_time": 1267.039,
      "text": " And that the physicist, the quote unquote physicist believed this in this. And I am there as someone who's supposed to be just watching them. But that was an example where I can't just allow some claims about physics to go unchallenged because it was just I found that what he was saying to be what I found that what Don was saying was misleading and was being stated with such conviction as if they were a consensus in the field and they weren't. And so that's one of one of the times I may come in."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1323.183,
      "index": 51,
      "start_time": 1299.633,
      "text": " And more generally, what's your role in a podcast that you're doing a solo podcast? How do you prepare and how do you balance the conversation? Do you have rules of thumb? Do you follow your curiosity? Give us a bit more deeper. So I read their papers beforehand."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1351.237,
      "index": 52,
      "start_time": 1323.78,
      "text": " I'll read their book if they have a book or their books if they have books. So you read it off. Some people have like 10 books. You go ahead and I'll just ship it. Then I'll look at like I'll look at, well, where am I going? Again, the example of quantum gravity. And are there any that have something to do with that? And I'll read those. Or if it's one of the most I almost always prioritize the recent ones because people's minds change. So I want their most updated thoughts."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1382.927,
      "index": 53,
      "start_time": 1353.183,
      "text": " Okay, then. Yeah, for for Robert Sapolsky, I read his Determined book. He has a recent book called Determined that was just published a couple of months ago, for instance. Then I write down questions as they occur to me. I. I come up with questions as I'm watching TV with my wife or as I'm walking or as I think they just they're incessant, they come to me. So I often have pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1407.022,
      "index": 54,
      "start_time": 1383.353,
      "text": " of notes. Then when I'm speaking to a guest, I've done the hard work already. It's almost like, yeah, I allow it to go and almost whatever they say, I try to get what I tried to do is before the interview, I tried to get myself to the point where I can predict what the guest would say to my own question that I would come up with. So can I emulate them in my head?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1429.206,
      "index": 55,
      "start_time": 1408.336,
      "text": " once i've done that then i know i'm ready for the interview then i go in and i poke holes at where i not poke holes i find the holes in my knowledge so it's better if i give an example i'll have to think of an example later and we'll have to come back to that fair enough so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1458.285,
      "index": 56,
      "start_time": 1429.753,
      "text": " So you prepared. Okay, I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. Yeah, I'll give you an example. But they're a bit technical. So I was speaking to Chiara Marletto just about two hours ago. And she had a quote about the about that quantum field theory has in equivalent representations, meaning there are many ways to get to quantum field theory. And while they produce the same results in the sense of"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1487.671,
      "index": 57,
      "start_time": 1459.087,
      "text": " you they predict the same observable so they predict the same results in the lab they're actually different theories so she had a line that said that because they have because we have different quantum field theories in equivalent representations of quantum field theory it then leads to problems with studying curved space-time so of all her statements I okay I understand that they have different representations quantum field theory but I don't understand what"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1514.343,
      "index": 58,
      "start_time": 1488.114,
      "text": " What that means, what the implications are of that for curved space time. Furthermore, curved space time is another way. Well, sometimes people make an equivalence between curved space time and quantum gravity. It's not technically true because you can just you can curve space time without it being dynamic. But anyway, what I'm wondering is, OK, does that statement have anything to do with string theory? So then I have"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1542.995,
      "index": 59,
      "start_time": 1514.787,
      "text": " Then I ask her that question, because I just don't know the answer. So I have a variety of questions I don't know the answer to. It's rare that what I'll do is I'll ask a question just on behalf of the audience. The only time I would do so would be just toward the beginning to establish terms. But basically, I'm a selfish person. I'm an extremely selfish, selfish person who, who is who's just trying to edify myself. It's almost like the audience is I don't care about the audience. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1569.804,
      "index": 60,
      "start_time": 1544.548,
      "text": " So that's how I think about my role is I'm a student and I have the professor, this great sage, and I can ask this person any question that comes to my mind in office hours. So what would I ask if even if the doors were closed? There are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma loves you and she would never say no to McDonald's. So treat yourself to a Grandma McFlurry with your order today."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1600.981,
      "index": 61,
      "start_time": 1571.493,
      "text": " Raise a spoon to grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. Wow. And all this stuff that you've been doing for a couple of years now, all this podcasting,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1626.288,
      "index": 62,
      "start_time": 1601.51,
      "text": " How did it affect you and your personal life from not the business side as a person? Yeah, it's made me more I Listen, I listen way more to people. I take people more seriously now whereas before I would dismiss many ideas as being the"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1658.848,
      "index": 63,
      "start_time": 1629.036,
      "text": " The outgrowth of foolishness, but I don't think like that anymore. So I take more ideas seriously. What about more stuff? I don't. It's made me more articulate."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1688.746,
      "index": 64,
      "start_time": 1660.776,
      "text": " And it's given me while it shattered my worldview over and over and over and over again, it's as if it's given me different frameworks for worldviews rather than any particular worldview. And I don't know how to describe that. Yeah, and in many ways, it's not been pleasant psychologically, it's unsettling. And I lose sleep all the time."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1711.254,
      "index": 65,
      "start_time": 1689.65,
      "text": " About what? It's difficult for me to fall asleep. My mind is racing. It's difficult for me to fall asleep. It's a troubling state of affairs."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1739.684,
      "index": 66,
      "start_time": 1712.995,
      "text": " Because you have a lot of ideas, because you are concerned about the next podcast, because you just changed your world view today on a podcast and you are actually thinking deeply about that. What's the reason behind sometimes losing sleep? No, some of these thoughts are anxiety provoking. Some of the world views and some of what could be or some of what may not be is"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1769.667,
      "index": 67,
      "start_time": 1743.08,
      "text": " fearsome and much of my time is spent dealing with that and thinking about that over and over yeah it's it's there's also always never enough almost never enough time to finish all the tasks in a day and so i'm thinking about okay"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1797.619,
      "index": 68,
      "start_time": 1770.794,
      "text": " What do I have to do tomorrow? And then now that I'm not sleeping and it's 2 a.m. and I should have been asleep by 10 p.m. What am I going to have to push off from tomorrow? What is essential? OK, how can I rearrange my schedule? But that's minor. That's minor compared to just the trepidation from dealing with other. Frameworks of reality. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1825.384,
      "index": 69,
      "start_time": 1798.49,
      "text": " For me, when I hear this stuff, yes, it's troubling and challenging to my work views, but I leave them there. But as I understand, you take them with you and you think deeply about them. Are you thinking deeply about them alone or out loud with someone or with friends? I'm not sure. No, I'm thinking alone."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1848.063,
      "index": 70,
      "start_time": 1826.101,
      "text": " That's something else like I'm just so lonely. So like I have a wife and I love my wife. But my wife, we don't discuss this probably for the good. Don't discuss the ideas on the podcast because she just finds them incredibly boring. Like if I say any word that's over two syllables, she yawns and is so hurtful."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1875.265,
      "index": 71,
      "start_time": 1848.439,
      "text": " She just can't help it. She just she doesn't even realize it. So it's so uninteresting to her. And it's great because some people they marry someone who's in their field and then that's all they do is talk about that. And they're ensconced 24 7. So for instance, many mathematicians will marry another mathematician or physicist to marry another physicist. And then they're good. It's great for their output of physical work and mathematical work."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1897.125,
      "index": 72,
      "start_time": 1876.305,
      "text": " But for me, it would be too much. I like the break. Yeah, it seems that you have too much thought about it anyway, so you don't need more discussion. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's a it's a great reprieve. I enjoy being able to to just watch the office, for instance. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1926.903,
      "index": 73,
      "start_time": 1897.961,
      "text": " So I'm fantastic. I want to understand a bit more of the details. So you email all the guests, you schedule the time with everyone. Like, do you have a person helping you? No, no. All the guests emailing and scheduling is me. So I have a standard, pretty much standard template that I send out when I'm interested in someone, I'll"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1951.357,
      "index": 74,
      "start_time": 1927.517,
      "text": " I'll send it out to them. I have it booked sometimes months in advance and I almost always film at the same time. So that's something that I've learned to do recently is film at the same exact time because I would always go, I would jump through hoops to go through the guest schedule. So there, especially if they're in London or the UK or Australia,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1981.903,
      "index": 75,
      "start_time": 1952.005,
      "text": " Their time has shifted so drastically. And I'd be like, OK, I'll wake up at I'll do it at 8 a.m., which means I have to wake up at 6 a.m. and I have to wake up at 6 a.m. But I often. Will fall asleep at 3 a.m. and so then it would wreck me wreck me so bad. I had to say, you know what? I film every day at either 12 p.m. or 2 p.m. And so if you can't make those slots, then we're going to have to find a day that you can make those slots or we're just not going to film."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2012.005,
      "index": 76,
      "start_time": 1982.466,
      "text": " I need that rigidity and stability in my schedule. I need to be able to oversleep and still make the podcast because it's often that I'll I'll miss my sleeping deadline. So I try to sleep by 10 p.m. or so. It's almost almost every night that I miss it. And and thus I wake up later than I want to. Yeah, so that's helped."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2033.643,
      "index": 77,
      "start_time": 2014.275,
      "text": " That's something I recommend, by the way, to any podcasters. Just keep your podcast filming times consistent. You are big. You are big. You can do that. Well, I did that. I did that when I had about 70 or 80,000 subscribers."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2061.698,
      "index": 78,
      "start_time": 2034.326,
      "text": " So can you walk me through your growth and like it was exponential. It was one year with work with me. Like it's fairly consistent. It's there's nothing. There's there's no large ramp up. It's just been a fairly a fairly smooth glide upward. The first video on the channel, if you see it, it's Noam Chomsky and it has a million views or two million views."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2088.37,
      "index": 79,
      "start_time": 2062.79,
      "text": " That's not actually the first video on the channel. It's just the videos before that were so poor, like they're embarrassing how poor they are. And they're me inserting myself trying to be trying to act like I know what I'm talking about. And it's just so cringe worthy. I feel so embarrassed looking at it. So I'm like, OK, these contribute nothing. They're actually anti-toe, anti-theories of theories of everything."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2110.094,
      "index": 80,
      "start_time": 2088.933,
      "text": " Let me just remove them. This Chomsky one ended up taking off, but there were 20 other videos before that, maybe something like that. And that one happened to be the one that took off. And I'm some I even there I I can't watch. I just I become like a turtle. I cannot watch it. I cringe so drastically."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2120.64,
      "index": 81,
      "start_time": 2111.015,
      "text": " Yeah, it's a pain to watch myself. But anyway, that one took off. And so it looks like the channel was a success from the first video, but it's just that I unlisted or deleted the rest."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2143.234,
      "index": 82,
      "start_time": 2121.578,
      "text": " so we're talking about like can you walk me you were getting like 2 000 views in their first episode after you got two million to that like how was the growth like year by year grow now you have an audience like you got it you got it you got it anything you upload you have views now but i'm sure it was not like that in the beginning well"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2171.971,
      "index": 83,
      "start_time": 2144.138,
      "text": " Yeah, I would be happy if I had 1000 views over the course of a month on a video. I remember just wanting it. I wanted my YouTube video. If you went to the video section to look clean, to just have one K like with all the videos, something like that, like nothing that had 900 views or 544 views. I wanted it all to be clean with that singular digit and a K next to it. And I was like, oh man, if I can get that, that'd be so cool. So that's what it was."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2199.684,
      "index": 84,
      "start_time": 2172.739,
      "text": " I don't even know. Maybe the first couple of videos had just a few hundred. It's been it's been so long. Don't know. But yes, then the Noam Chomsky one started to take off. And that was because he's a huge name. Noam Chomsky is a huge name. And I think we were the first people to interview him after like the first amateur people to interview him because he was being interviewed on these large networks like"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2224.258,
      "index": 85,
      "start_time": 2200.282,
      "text": " Shit."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2249.36,
      "index": 86,
      "start_time": 2224.718,
      "text": " So it has nothing, well, little to do with the skill, with my skill level or the question. So you're saying that one took off and that kind of gave you the 1,000 then more. Yeah. Yeah. So I, that may have brought me up to 8,000 subscribers or 7,000 subscribers. And then I said, but that was everything. Like I, yeah, man, that was,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2269.292,
      "index": 87,
      "start_time": 2251.015,
      "text": " Yeah, that was plenty. Still is. Now the last question about the podcasting staff and they were moving to the next genre topic. So I want you to walk me through your financial stuff."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2299.172,
      "index": 88,
      "start_time": 2271.305,
      "text": " Yeah, like, like, like, like what? Like what? Well, how much money this podcast makes and like, and all this stuff, if you want to talk. Yeah, sure. Sure. So, so for the first year, not profitable, second year profitable. And then the third year, which has been the last, last year, barely profitable, like super, super, super duper stressful, stressful. And it's because"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2329.445,
      "index": 89,
      "start_time": 2300.196,
      "text": " People don't know this, but the main source of revenue for a podcast, maybe even for YouTube channels in general, are sponsorships. And I'm unsure how much of this I can say like legally, which is one of the reasons I was so stressed, so stressed out. But basically, there are people who bring you sponsors. So I have no problem with any of the sponsors on theories of everything. But there are people who bring you sponsors. They're like sponsor brokers."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2348.609,
      "index": 90,
      "start_time": 2330.896,
      "text": " And there were many miscommunications and then there's even someone else suing someone else, like a sponsor broker got a sponsor broker. They have to speak so general about this, but I wasn't even allowed to, I'm not allowed to talk badly about certain people."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2370.35,
      "index": 91,
      "start_time": 2349.053,
      "text": " And I'm not allowed to search or wasn't allowed to search for my own sponsors and there was a large, there's so many videos, like you mentioned, there are many videos that get plenty of views on the channel, zero sponsors on them. And it's great for the viewer. It's not even that great for the viewer because they just skip through sponsor messages if they don't like it."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2394.889,
      "index": 92,
      "start_time": 2370.52,
      "text": " It's not like it's a drastic improvement in the viewing experience to not have a sponsor message, but it's everything to a creator to have one or not. And I wasn't able to have one and there was some I was doing for free. And then you have to, it's such a stress, it's so stressful to even think about. Like I would wake up scratching my head from how stressed out I was and unnerved and frazzled."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2410.486,
      "index": 93,
      "start_time": 2397.159,
      "text": " And that seems to be dissipating. It's just now dissipating where we're starting to make it a profitable enterprise. So, yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2428.439,
      "index": 94,
      "start_time": 2410.93,
      "text": " Okay, very interesting. I was clearing my main channel, YouTube, like if we want to talk numbers as well because I don't have a problem. I'm getting, let's say, $25,000, let's say, sponsored on the main channel and every month I'm getting like a sense of"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2455.759,
      "index": 95,
      "start_time": 2428.814,
      "text": " I'd be lucky if I see that much in sponsorship over the course of multiple months."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2484.258,
      "index": 96,
      "start_time": 2456.92,
      "text": " But anyhow, so, yeah. Interesting. So, we're closing the chapter of the podcasting era. Yeah, sure. And I consider you one very wise man. You talk with so many people, so I want to get your take in the questions that you are asking the people."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2510.384,
      "index": 97,
      "start_time": 2484.258,
      "text": " First of all you interviewed all these people about the mind body problem idealist Physicalist and all this stuff. Where do you stand? Well, I'm not an idealist I'm not a physicalist I I'm still learning I I don't It to me that that questions like asking a first-year student what?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2540.759,
      "index": 98,
      "start_time": 2512.466,
      "text": " What theory do they believe in? Like they have ideas, they've heard it, but they're still learning. And I hope to, I hope to be in this stage for the next few years. And I, I think I will be in that stage. And the reason I say hope is because I don't want to prematurely put a, one of the worst aspects of university is that they get you to write your PhD when you're your most creative. So what happens is that you're 22 to 27 when you get your, when you start writing your PhD."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2568.114,
      "index": 99,
      "start_time": 2541.152,
      "text": " And what you do with your PhD is you crystallize on a particular thesis, on a particular subfield of a subfield. And usually develop a point of view that is close to what your advisor is, pretty much. But the point is you develop a point of view. That to me is horrible because"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2586.63,
      "index": 100,
      "start_time": 2568.78,
      "text": " You should be flying like a bird and exploring. You don't drill down. And as soon as you drill down, you think, okay, well, I'm going to drill down now and then I'm going to explore later. That rarely happens. Rarely, rarely happens. In fact, you get more ensconced and more entrenched. Sorry, you get more entrenched in your view."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2617.261,
      "index": 101,
      "start_time": 2589.036,
      "text": " I'd rather just take an exploratory approach than say I'm going to live in, in Papua New Guinea. I'm going to just live there and just, or I'm going to live in this Mayan temple and just live there. No, I'd rather explore and see what else there is to the world and then come to some conclusions later. It's also the, the philosophy that I have in mind when I'm interviewing someone. So you're asking me about preparing."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2647.227,
      "index": 102,
      "start_time": 2618.37,
      "text": " What I tend to do is, let's say I'm interviewing, like I mentioned, Chiara Marletto. She's someone who has a theory called constructor theory, which is a general framework for physics. What I do is I research and I learn as much as I can so that it's like, it's as if I've gone, it's as if she's a tour guide of, and what city are you based in by the way? I'm in Cyprus currently, but I live in the United States. I was living in Los Angeles."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2677.261,
      "index": 103,
      "start_time": 2649.206,
      "text": " Hear that sound? That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2703.387,
      "index": 104,
      "start_time": 2677.261,
      "text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2729.155,
      "index": 105,
      "start_time": 2703.387,
      "text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2756.647,
      "index": 106,
      "start_time": 2729.155,
      "text": " Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories. Raise a spoon to grandma who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the play play slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the grandma McFlurry today and participate in McDonald's for a limited time. Okay, so it's as if"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2783.49,
      "index": 107,
      "start_time": 2757.125,
      "text": " Chiara Marletto is a tour guide in Los Angeles. Okay so what I could do is I could just be like let me fly to Los Angeles and let's have her show me around or what I can do is I can fly there before like weeks before I learn the ins and outs of different side streets of Los Angeles and then this way me and Chiara Marletto get to explore together and there will be nooks and crannies that I don't know and I can ask about that. So sometimes people would"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2811.476,
      "index": 108,
      "start_time": 2784.326,
      "text": " wonder how is it that I'm able to keep up in the podcasts. It's because I've been there before. Like I know where the Mexican joint is around here or where the KFC is. So anyway, that's this exploratory approach is what is what I, I, I take. So you're asking about idealism versus you refuse to take position and to you refuse to, uh,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2833.78,
      "index": 109,
      "start_time": 2812.125,
      "text": " It's not even that I refuse man, it's it's that I just I know I know so much I know of so many times in my past where I've thought adamantly about sorry, I believed adamantly in something. I thought so and so was the case and it wasn't. And and I was so sure about it, that it's undermined my confidence and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2865.538,
      "index": 110,
      "start_time": 2835.964,
      "text": " I just can't. I know too much. As soon as I put up a proposition, I could see five flaws with the proposition. So it's not like I refuse. I can't. I can't. So it's foolish of me to ask you as well about the question of free will. No, it's fine. It's fine. Look, there's some people that think free will exists, and there's some people that don't, and it seems like they're arguing about definitions."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2893.456,
      "index": 111,
      "start_time": 2866.732,
      "text": " rather than the science. So what I find interesting is that there's someone like, some of the people who say that there is no free will, they'll do so by saying, look, you are determined by factors beyond your control. And then to me, my question is, well, what defines you? What do you mean you are determined by factors beyond your control?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2922.773,
      "index": 112,
      "start_time": 2894.787,
      "text": " Because if you're a monist or someone who doesn't believe in dualism, like doesn't believe there's mind and then matter, but believe somehow it's all the same, then what's the difference between you and the physical laws? So if you were to say that the physical laws determine you, you don't determine you. Yeah, but what's the difference between you and the physical laws? So in some sense, you are determining yourself."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2949.616,
      "index": 113,
      "start_time": 2923.985,
      "text": " I I post this to Robert Sapolsky and then he didn't have a satisfactory answer. He didn't. Well. He was thrown by the question, it seemed like it hadn't occurred to him. But anyway, the point is that, like, look, and I have fought, I have arguments against what I just said. It's not like I believe what I just said, but I'm curious to see what when someone says like Robert Sapolsky that he doesn't believe in free will. I'm curious, have you?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2977.09,
      "index": 114,
      "start_time": 2950.111,
      "text": " considered all the arguments against, not all, but have you considered the major arguments against your position? And generally what I find is, is that's not the case. And I'm disappointed because these people are my heroes. And so, but, but, but anyhow, yeah, you can ask me as much as you like about free will. So in a way you believe in everything or do you believe in nothing? No, I don't believe in everything and I don't believe in nothing."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3006.971,
      "index": 115,
      "start_time": 2978.302,
      "text": " So you have some positions? Yeah, I have positions. Whether I can articulate them is different and also whether they're confident enough for me to say is also something else because it's not as if many of my positions change on a monthly basis. So with regard to the free will stance, I used to believe that there is no free will. It's not to say that I believe that there is, but I used to believe"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3036.886,
      "index": 116,
      "start_time": 3009.002,
      "text": " That I used to believe with such confidence that there is no free will. But. But the arguments about. I just don't. I don't understand how one can believe like. How can one so assuredly believe that their conclusion that there is no free will? Is a correct conclusion when"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3067.585,
      "index": 117,
      "start_time": 3038.234,
      "text": " It's something that, by their own admission, depends on factors that are so chaotic, like the wind in North Carolina 300 years ago, because of the random bouncing around of particles. How does that not undermine their own conviction in their statements? So, in other words, how do they not feel the tension between... It's foolish to have a belief on something that... No, I'm talking specifically about the free will"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3096.203,
      "index": 118,
      "start_time": 3068.353,
      "text": " specifically about when someone says that there exists no free will because we are determined by factors that are as arbitrary as whether one brick was placed on the other in Barcelona 600 years ago and through some chaotic effects that just influenced whatever you believe now. How do you not see the tension between your conclusion and the conviction that you hold your conclusion with?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3124.565,
      "index": 119,
      "start_time": 3099.974,
      "text": " So if you're saying, look, if you're saying that my, I don't believe in free will. Why? Well, because, because it rained 500 years ago in this small town. Okay. Why do you then believe that you don't have like, why, why does that not undermine your certainty in it? Like you can say you don't believe it."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3149.224,
      "index": 120,
      "start_time": 3124.855,
      "text": " But it's different to say it so self-assuredly that you're willing to debate people, write a book about it, go on podcasts. Okay. Now I understand what you mean. I never thought about it like that, that actually for them to believe that they're 100% sure, it's a bit weird."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3170.094,
      "index": 121,
      "start_time": 3150.213,
      "text": " Yes. Yeah. And furthermore, in the Robert Sapolsky case, he even admitted that he has he arrived at his no free will stance when he was an early teenager. And that's something else that he hasn't changed for 50 years. Like, why? What else have you arrived at when you were an early teen that you were correct at?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3200.06,
      "index": 122,
      "start_time": 3171.288,
      "text": " Like what is some other theoretical stance on the nature of reality that you believed when you were in your teens that you're still correct about? Almost none of them, if any of them. So the fact that something was arrived at and also you don't have the cognitive ability to come up with something so rational from first principles. You do so out of emotion at that age and maybe even at any age, at least according to some accounts of free will. But"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3225.299,
      "index": 123,
      "start_time": 3201.647,
      "text": " I don't want you to refuse to answer because I know you have stuff to say about the AI, the current state and how do you see it evolve? Are you scared? Are you optimistic? And how do you feel about this?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3247.568,
      "index": 124,
      "start_time": 3225.742,
      "text": " I don't know. I don't know. It is worrisome. No, no, but it's just extremely powerful. It's like the Manhattan Project. I remember Einstein said that he would burn his fingers had he known that what what he had signed off as as a yes, like go develop the bomb, what it would actually lead to. He just didn't know the power of his own equations."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3276.698,
      "index": 125,
      "start_time": 3251.63,
      "text": " And it's not that AI will take over. Like people are straw manning on each sideman. It's not like AI will take over like iRobot and they'll embody something. And isn't it as simple as you can shut it down? Firstly, currently, yes, it is as simple as that. But it also is something that can be used to amplify our own inadequacies and insecurities and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3304.514,
      "index": 126,
      "start_time": 3278.558,
      "text": " And malevolent qualities are own. So it's not as if AI is developed in some vacuum. It's something that we interact with. Okay. And then also it's not as if some quote unquote bad actor can't get a hold of of these extremely powerful weapons. And then, and then third, it's not as if there's such a thing as unintended consequences. We have no idea."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3332.09,
      "index": 127,
      "start_time": 3304.974,
      "text": " When we're dealing with something extremely powerful and almost everyone agrees, they're powerful and extremely powerful at that. And that's in their current form. There's the saying that people love to. Like there's this guy named Two Minute Papers on YouTube. I think he so gleefully says, oh, and and. What a time to be alive, he'll say, and I'm like, oh my gosh, man, like you're so optimistic and you just don't see any downsides. You don't talk about them."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3361.271,
      "index": 128,
      "start_time": 3333.353,
      "text": " So I can see it. Yeah, well. Yeah, I see both sides that it can help cure diseases like advanced cancer research or or help develop a more efficient form of energy or technology that takes up plenty of energy currently."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3389.206,
      "index": 129,
      "start_time": 3362.824,
      "text": " Yeah. And so it's, it's, it's wonderful. So it will talk more about the problems that kind of care. Should we talk more about the optimism in the current state? Should we just develop and shut up? No, I think the people who are developing should think about the consequences of what they're doing. There's a story about the,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3412.005,
      "index": 130,
      "start_time": 3390.794,
      "text": " About the manhattan project with fineman richard fineman and he was saying look we didn't know what we were doing like we didn't actually care we have fun writing the equations and writing papers and performing experiments we didn't think about where is this going to be used. Whose lives will suffer he said that came about afterward."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3439.258,
      "index": 131,
      "start_time": 3413.797,
      "text": " And so the same as with engineers, like it's, it's fun, even with this podcast that I have, it's fun to talk to people. It's fun to deal with ideas. It's fun to research. It's fun to produce something that people seem to find useful. It's fun. It's not fun to think about, well, what are also the negative side effects and just keep that in mind. It doesn't mean that that has to win out."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3465.196,
      "index": 132,
      "start_time": 3442.022,
      "text": " Daniel Dennett said, how are you going to solve the AI alignment problem? How are you going to solve it? What is the good proposal to do it? I don't know. To me, it doesn't mean you'd stop research. I like that people are talking about it and I like that people aren't talking about it as well. I love to hear, I love it when someone says that it's overblown, that this whole AI"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3494.77,
      "index": 133,
      "start_time": 3466.8,
      "text": " Fear mongering is overblown. I love that because I want to hear I hope that's the case I wanted to be true that it's all just like any other technology like the calculator when it came out and some people were in upheaval Great explain to me why I would love that So I'm glad that there are people like you let yawn lacoon from Facebook from Metta Anyhow so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3522.841,
      "index": 134,
      "start_time": 3495.691,
      "text": " You are kind of happy with what is happening, like with the current concern and with the current innovation and with the current optimism as well. Like you want this to continue, this trend as I understand. Yeah, I just want there to be overall concern and there seems to be that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3546.118,
      "index": 135,
      "start_time": 3526.288,
      "text": " Just as there is with with anything else and I like that there's people who say that you shouldn't be concerned like there are some people who say you should be concerned about banning guns and there's some people who say you should be concerned about not banning guns and I like personally I like to hear both sides and I like it when"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3576.8,
      "index": 136,
      "start_time": 3550.418,
      "text": " Yeah, I'd like to hear it. It doesn't mean that there should always be a debate. It doesn't mean that we should endlessly debate whether or not the Holocaust was a good thing. That's a bit foolish to me. At some point, you have to put a stake in the ground. Larry Page and Elon Musk had, I don't know if you are aware, a famous argument about one Larry Page, CEO of Google being a species,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3604.104,
      "index": 137,
      "start_time": 3577.346,
      "text": " and Elon Musk supporting humans. So basically the argument, it's one second and I just clicked something in the VR world, now I'm K. It's funny guys, I'm still in the VR. So that argument was that a lot of page beliefs let evolution do its thing and if we get extinct as a species on the way,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3624.872,
      "index": 138,
      "start_time": 3604.753,
      "text": " Let it be and Elon Musk is saying, no, let's make sure 100% that we're going to prevent and make sure this and make sure that humans will be good in the future. So this is what do you think about this and do you have any personal opinion about this?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3667.346,
      "index": 139,
      "start_time": 3639.002,
      "text": " I don't see why Larry would say that. I would need to know more about that position. Well, maybe. Let's say we stop AI because we want humans to survive or something like that. Maybe we're stopping, actually. Imagine the future."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3672.961,
      "index": 140,
      "start_time": 3667.892,
      "text": " The point is that, look, it's such a fatalistic"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3699.189,
      "index": 141,
      "start_time": 3673.353,
      "text": " Sorry to interrupt you. No, it's such a fatalistic point of view, because Larry's company Google and Alphabet itself has statements on and being anti climate change. Why do you even care about that? Why don't you just say, hey, let the climate do whatever it's like it does. And let's just die in the process if it's if it's going to. So to me, it seems like he's if that's his claim is that let the chips fall where they may. Well, then let the chips fall where they may don't."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3725.572,
      "index": 142,
      "start_time": 3701.732,
      "text": " There's a performative contradiction between that statement and then how the company at least publicizes itself. Well, I just don't see why you can't take that argument and apply it further. If that's the logic, why can't you just apply it in other domains? Why not just"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3746.118,
      "index": 143,
      "start_time": 3726.783,
      "text": " Why not have, why not eradicate laws? Why not have no traffic? Because we might stop something very important on the way. Let's say the age, I will go and colonize the whole universe and find different universes. And let's say that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3773.217,
      "index": 144,
      "start_time": 3746.118,
      "text": " If AI has consciousness, then an AGI will have consciousness or something like that. They were going to stop all this stuff from happening if we don't, if we put some limits now. And that's why he say let evolution do its thing because it doesn't want properly to get us to get in a way in all the exponential magic that will happen with this thing."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3795.401,
      "index": 145,
      "start_time": 3774.718,
      "text": " Yeah, well, if that's what his claim is, then, then I would question where does he get that the value where does he value where does where does he get the value of this exponential magic? Why does he value this exploration of space by AI? Like, where, where does that come from? Who's to say that that's more valuable? Where does this objective morality come from?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3806.903,
      "index": 146,
      "start_time": 3796.527,
      "text": " Or this objective valuation and now we're coming to the debate that we are having now in the world like our machines going to be conscious and if they are conscious."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3829.172,
      "index": 147,
      "start_time": 3807.619,
      "text": " They have more or less freedom rights than us. Yeah. So the Turing test is less of a test of the computer's intelligence and more a test of our models of ourself. So for instance, you can get a five-year-old to be"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3858.387,
      "index": 148,
      "start_time": 3829.582,
      "text": " Okay, so you don't think... Continue, I'm sorry for interrupting. Oh."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3883.353,
      "index": 149,
      "start_time": 3859.275,
      "text": " No, no, no. What I was going to say is that it doesn't matter whether in some ways it matters, obviously, whether or not a computer is conscious. But what also matters or what matters even more is whether or not we or the majority of people think it's conscious. And that can happen. Well, whether does it matter that you are conscious? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3911.015,
      "index": 150,
      "start_time": 3883.797,
      "text": " Yeah, it matters. Well, why not? It doesn't matter for a computer to be conscious. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter for a computer. But what I mean is that it matters more that other people think it's conscious. Why? If other if if other people think that you are conscious, it changed. You still can experience chocolate. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3939.582,
      "index": 151,
      "start_time": 3912.671,
      "text": " Well, I mean for society at large, it matters that people think computers are conscious. If people don't think computers are conscious and computers are conscious, well, that's poor for the computers, but it has less of an impact on society. Whereas if we think computers are conscious and they're not conscious, it has the same exact effect."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3968.37,
      "index": 152,
      "start_time": 3939.94,
      "text": " as if computers were conscious and we think that they're conscious. So? So what? So are computers conscious? Is that what you're asking me? No, I want you to explore this idea more because it's interesting. So if that's right, what you're saying, then what? This is what I mean with my poor English when I asked. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3979.36,
      "index": 153,
      "start_time": 3969.753,
      "text": " Let me think of an analogy. Hear that sound?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4005.879,
      "index": 154,
      "start_time": 3979.701,
      "text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4031.954,
      "index": 155,
      "start_time": 4005.879,
      "text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4057.705,
      "index": 156,
      "start_time": 4031.954,
      "text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4083.353,
      "index": 157,
      "start_time": 4057.705,
      "text": " Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today at participating McDonald's for a limited time."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4104.667,
      "index": 158,
      "start_time": 4087.244,
      "text": " Yes, it's tricky because it does matter whether or not they're conscious, but it also matters whether or not we think they're conscious So there's a difference. So some people have it matters or it matters to them Said that to us. I'm speaking about to us. So"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4134.104,
      "index": 159,
      "start_time": 4105.418,
      "text": " Yeah, and we have no idea if whatever consciousness they have is going to be the same sort of consciousness. We have no idea if they have the same continuity of self. So that's something that people just assume while a computer can replicate itself. What makes you think that it believes its own replication is going to be an instance of itself rather than a competitor? And that's also an open question is something called narrow representationalism. Can you clone yourself if your clone was just a copy of your brain?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4163.37,
      "index": 160,
      "start_time": 4134.565,
      "text": " Would that then be you? Or does the concept of you also have to deal with the external environments and all your interactions there as well? And so in cognitive science, there's something called the four E's of cognitive science. I don't remember what it used to be, but I know this is considered like the third wave of cognitive science. The four E's. It's your embodied, your enacted, meaning you have some actions. Your cognition is also action. It's also embodied. So it's part of your body, not just in your brain, not just in your encephalon, I mean."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4189.002,
      "index": 161,
      "start_time": 4163.968,
      "text": " And then it's extended, meaning that we use computers and pens and glasses and so on. Well, glasses aren't a tool. Yeah, no, maybe that counts. I don't I don't see how the case could be made, though. But your cognition is extended. I forgot what the other is. So there's embodied, enacted, extended. Hmm."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4211.015,
      "index": 162,
      "start_time": 4194.053,
      "text": " Embodied, enacted, extended. Someone else can fill in the other E. But the point is that it's not clear to me if you clone someone. Does that clone all aspects of their cognition? Does that clone them? Does that mean that that new one is them, quote unquote?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4241.442,
      "index": 163,
      "start_time": 4212.398,
      "text": " Is that clone? Yeah, so that's that's what I'm saying. Some people think that it's that AI can live forever because it can clone itself. It's not clear to me then that a sufficiently advanced intelligence would not also have a different model of what it means to be the self. Maybe our model of what it means to be some self is super poor, just like we think that whatever a three year old's model of itself is, is super poor. So you think this"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4267.739,
      "index": 164,
      "start_time": 4241.852,
      "text": " is with them having consciousness, the machines having consciousness is a lot. I'm not sure exactly what you said with that. I would ask for you to clarify a bit the last thoughts about the three E's and also the last thing that you mean with the whole. What do you mean exactly about that?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4288.456,
      "index": 165,
      "start_time": 4268.166,
      "text": " Related to the previous conversation because I was I was lost in your beautiful rhythm of thought Okay, so what I'm saying is I'm just saying it's not clear to me that a copy of a program. So let's say I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4310.009,
      "index": 166,
      "start_time": 4289.241,
      "text": " You have Riverside running right now on your computer and I have it running on mine and we both say it's it's Riverside quote-unquote running on mine. We say it's Riverside running on yours as if they're just instantiations of Riverside. Okay, rather than they're two separate completely separate so much so that we'd give them a different name one is Bob one is Alice."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4334.94,
      "index": 167,
      "start_time": 4310.794,
      "text": " so we think of a compute we often say this you can mind upload or a computer can live forever because it's just a program that the program is just the information we have no idea if that's the case we don't even we don't even if it is the case we don't know if the computer program itself would look at another instantiation of itself another copy as itself or if it would look at that as a competitor"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4365.776,
      "index": 168,
      "start_time": 4337.483,
      "text": " In the same way, some twins have twin rivalry. You think, oh, why don't they view themselves as as look, if I die, at least my twin lives on and therefore I live. But I wish you are that they're copying themselves and maybe it's not just a machine that lives for like, I don't know, and just upgrades or something. Yeah, that's that's something else. Are you the same person as you were when you were five years old? There's this great paradox called the"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4390.043,
      "index": 169,
      "start_time": 4366.049,
      "text": " The paradox of the heap or sorority is paradox. When does, if you have one grain of sand, you just call it a grain of sand, but at some point you put enough grains of sand, like two, three, four, and you make a heap, a heap of sand, a little hill of sand. At what point? Was it at the 10th grain? Was it at the 300th grain? At some point you make this arbitrary cutoff. And so it's difficult to say"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4419.394,
      "index": 170,
      "start_time": 4390.555,
      "text": " Yeah, that's that's an eight. You're raising an age old philosophical problem that may be one of the deepest philosophical problems. I happen to think it is. I think that the the paradox of the heap or sororities paradoxes is at the heart of almost all of our. Of our. Contemporary philosophical problems. Are you ready for the question that I ask all the guests? Sure."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4447.978,
      "index": 171,
      "start_time": 4419.804,
      "text": " I give you one trillion dollars with the goal to have a maximum impact, positive impact in the planet. How do you spend it? OK, so I have like I have one"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4470.247,
      "index": 172,
      "start_time": 4448.558,
      "text": " I think they're both serious answers, but it's going to sound not serious. I'm a germaphobe, and I just have fantasies. I imagine all the time, I fantasize about this, that there are robots that will clean"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4497.961,
      "index": 173,
      "start_time": 4470.964,
      "text": " The washrooms because I feel so bad for janitors feel so bad so bad for janitors. I think people mistreat them. They're not paid enough. I think it's like the I can't do that job. I don't know how any anyhow. She's what they have to deal with. So I envision robots back and I vision like every aspect of the robot like how's the robot going to clean itself because I don't want people to maintain the robot. That's just as bad as the as you cleaning the washrooms yourself."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4524.394,
      "index": 174,
      "start_time": 4499.497,
      "text": " So I would develop some way of of cleaning washrooms so people never have to do that. And some sort of repair of homes and self-construction of homes. OK, so that's the it's somewhat serious, but it's also facetious answer. But then the other answer is that very, very unique answer, by the way, I never had anything close to this."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4553.439,
      "index": 175,
      "start_time": 4526.049,
      "text": " Part of part of it is that is that I think that the quality of your society is the quality which you take care of your homeless people. So you need to build homes and the widows and the orphans. There's like a common trope in almost all religions about widows, orphans and the homeless. So whatever takes care of them. So that's one. But then the other answer is just that it's too much power and I just have to give you the trillion dollars right back."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4584.531,
      "index": 176,
      "start_time": 4555.418,
      "text": " And give it to less responsible people. Or you can destroy it. In Harry Potter, the the end they had, he had the most powerful wand. I think I don't recall what it's called. Someone else can fill that in. The elder wand, I think it was the elder wand, elder wand. And then he could do whatever he wanted with this wand. And his friends asked him, what are you going to do next now that Voldemort is defeated? And he breaks in and throws it away."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4614.48,
      "index": 177,
      "start_time": 4585.094,
      "text": " And to me, that's the, that's the right answer to unlimited power is you break in and throw it away. What about those people that you could show is really like, it's a very poetic, very interesting, very philosophical answer. But, uh,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4642.79,
      "index": 178,
      "start_time": 4615.794,
      "text": " People would live with something, I don't know, less in a way, the opportunity cost. The problem is that I can't, I don't trust myself to be motivated by goodness. And it's not clear to me that with"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4670.435,
      "index": 179,
      "start_time": 4643.985,
      "text": " a large enough weapon that I would just do more good than harm. And I think that that's always the case. I think that almost it's it's it's it's it's extremely tricky. I understand. I understand. Super tricky, super tricky. Well, but that's pretty that's why. So the robots, the self-cleaning robots,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4698.814,
      "index": 180,
      "start_time": 4670.879,
      "text": " And I also, by the way, imagine like I have several solutions to this man. Like I thought about nanomachines that can build their own toilet and then deconstruct the toilet. So instead, you don't even need to clean the washroom. I have many ideas on this. So maybe it'll maybe I'll just be like, I'll default back, like, you know, give me back that trillion. I'll invest in it. This blew my mind, actually, sunset was good, but too much power."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4728.831,
      "index": 181,
      "start_time": 4700.35,
      "text": " And also the toilets as well blew my mind. This is what I've been very curious about, democracy. It's a shitty system. If it has hopes to actually function better and stuff. So what are your thoughts about democracy?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4760.64,
      "index": 182,
      "start_time": 4731.34,
      "text": " I have no clue, man. That's a whole other can of worms. Yeah, I don't know. So just so you know, Plato didn't think we should have democracy. He thought we should have philosopher kings. There's only two people as far as I know in history who thought that and one was Thomas Hobbes, the other was was Plato. So Plato would be the type that would say, give me the trillion or give it to someone wise."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4793.729,
      "index": 183,
      "start_time": 4766.374,
      "text": " I don't know, but why don't you think about this? When has there ever been the case that someone has positively spent billions of dollars? When has there ever been the case of that? Like many people questioned, I don't know enough about this, but many people question Bill Gates motivations because he sure he's doing good, but he's consolidating global influence and that is more powerful than money."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4822.278,
      "index": 184,
      "start_time": 4794.787,
      "text": " At least, at least according to some accounts, I haven't looked into that. The point is that of all the charitable people, of all the people who have spent the most money on so-called charity, Bill Gates would be near the top. And even those questions and sorry, and even those motivations are deeply questioned. So you mean about more about power that I don't know. I'm just I I stay out of that."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4835.572,
      "index": 185,
      "start_time": 4823.404,
      "text": " I'm just saying that these are the different views on it. And so what my response is to that trillion dollar question is, show me a case in history, like five cases."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4863.541,
      "index": 186,
      "start_time": 4836.049,
      "text": " There should be five, at least five cases where someone has done something extremely positive, almost unanimously agreed upon with their obscene amounts of money. Well, I cannot do that. SpaceX is probably one of these example. OK, that's one. That's right. I'm not saying I'm not accepting that. I'm just saying that if hypothetically, if one was to accept it, that would just still just be one one example."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4891.766,
      "index": 187,
      "start_time": 4863.951,
      "text": " And that's a for-profit enterprise. You are. But yeah, I don't know, man. It's a great question. It's a fun one. I'll probably think about it as I am up at 2 a.m. No, please. It's more fun than what I usually do. It's more lighthearted and mirthful. What about my question of democracy? Do you have any thoughts on that?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4923.046,
      "index": 188,
      "start_time": 4893.746,
      "text": " I don't know. In religious texts, there's an emphasis on God's kingdom, which is distinct from human kingdoms. So maybe you pay attention to doing good."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4940.162,
      "index": 189,
      "start_time": 4925.589,
      "text": " Keep your eye on God's kingdom. I don't know. So you think democracy is functioning or dysfunctional system?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4966.101,
      "index": 190,
      "start_time": 4942.637,
      "text": " I don't know. The political questions are far too complicated for me. I prefer string theory to the political questions."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4992.773,
      "index": 191,
      "start_time": 4966.8,
      "text": " I think there are less variables in string theory than there are in political questions. I think people's answers to political questions are so motivated by their own are so deeply ingrained by their personalities, which is handed to them by their in large part by their social environment and their and their genetics. And so they're influenced by factors that they haven't examined, yet they state them with such. Hmm."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5021.186,
      "index": 192,
      "start_time": 4996.323,
      "text": " Audacity and unquestioningly they state them as if they're these inexorable truths with conviction. They state them with conviction. Yeah, and I don't know if they realize if they"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5047.193,
      "index": 193,
      "start_time": 5021.817,
      "text": " weren't so open or were less open in terms of the personality test, there's ocean, so openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism, that basically those five in large part determine your political beliefs. And those five are genetic, are largely genetic. And so let's say 30% of your political beliefs are just because of something that is way beyond your control."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5076.015,
      "index": 194,
      "start_time": 5049.599,
      "text": " It's a can of worms. It's a problem with a thousand different factors. And I prefer the 26 parameters of the standard model. Oh, I never thought that. Yes, that's probably right that democracy or all these political questions that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5096.954,
      "index": 195,
      "start_time": 5076.34,
      "text": " A lot more complex because they have so much more variables in comparison to some scientific problems. Yeah, they also come down to values. I don't know how people justify their values. And then when someone will say, well, I just wanted to produce less suffering. Well, then what is a utilitarian view? So it's just whatever produces less suffering as a whole."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5127.602,
      "index": 196,
      "start_time": 5097.739,
      "text": " So what if I was to say that there was some alien civilization that would benefit tremendously off of our own global suffering, but their consciousness is far beyond ours and they get pleasure out of it? Are you saying that that's okay? You can perform so many thought experiments that demonstrate a lack of cohesion in most worldviews. Maybe in all of them, I don't know. Yeah, this goes back to these thoughts that I have that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5153.643,
      "index": 197,
      "start_time": 5128.114,
      "text": " are just, it leaves me a straddle, yeah, a straddle and tentative, because I can see, I can see inadequacies. They just come to me, that's why interviewing people is so easy, because like, it's so easy to formulate questions, they just occur like,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5177.824,
      "index": 198,
      "start_time": 5154.787,
      "text": " Three instantaneously when someone says something, I just have to hold myself back. Podcasting is like it's always like super hard because I can't ask all the questions I want to. But it's extremely easy because I have an abundance of them. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5207.739,
      "index": 199,
      "start_time": 5179.565,
      "text": " A lot of people struggle to come up with something to ask. For example, my father has a big problem with asking questions. He sits there, he doesn't ask questions. But you seem to have no problem to come up with millions of questions at once."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5236.834,
      "index": 200,
      "start_time": 5208.49,
      "text": " On that end, I have an exercise a bit later that I'm curious to see that in action. But for now, kind of to close this chapter, I wanted to ask you because you think very deeply about stuff. And I'm not sure if I understood if you are an optimistic person or a pessimistic person. I would say optimistic."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5267.654,
      "index": 201,
      "start_time": 5239.411,
      "text": " And one of the reasons is because it seems like there are aspects of this world which are self-fulfilling prophecies, in which case it pays to be optimistic. So you are not optimistic. You ask so that being optimistic is better and that's why you are optimistic. Well, it seems to be the case that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5293.643,
      "index": 202,
      "start_time": 5270.179,
      "text": " There exists a phenomenon called self-fulfilling prophecies. It's unclear to me how much of the world comprises these. By the way, I'm also inconsistent, terribly inconsistent, so it's... Yeah, I'd say I'm optimistic overall."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5322.568,
      "index": 203,
      "start_time": 5294.326,
      "text": " But optimistic to what? I don't know. Humans may be annihilated, but I'm optimistic that if it was to be annihilated, it would be for the good and it would still work out for us in the end. It would still work out. Like, I have faith that even when it doesn't work out, it will still work out. I don't know how to square that. Oh, pretty satisfied with the answer. And now for the moment that everyone has been waiting for."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5340.947,
      "index": 204,
      "start_time": 5324.599,
      "text": " and me included. I won two in one and a half hour actually which is very exciting. So I'm curious because"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5356.049,
      "index": 205,
      "start_time": 5341.323,
      "text": " You can understand how emotionally excited I am about this taking it off for 30 days in a VR headset. I'm curious to see what you are curious about me doing this challenge for 30 days."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5387.312,
      "index": 206,
      "start_time": 5359.019,
      "text": " I want to know, are you sleeping with it on and then opening your eyes and that's what you're seeing first? Sleeping, showering. I didn't take it off for the last... How do you shower with that on though? I shower under here and sometimes I shower three times my hair. So I went to the barber shop and they have these things that they do the hair. So I disconnected this part and I was holding the front and they showered my hair. So I never took this headset off."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5417.073,
      "index": 207,
      "start_time": 5387.619,
      "text": " for the last 30 days. And I was live streaming consistently on my channel. So people make sure Okay, well, yeah, I'm just I'm I'm curious to know what your eyesight is going to be like right afterward and how long it will take to get adjusted. Because I know that when I just stare at my screen for a few hours, it hurts my eyes. And then I can't even look. Yeah, my my vision gets blurry. So I'm super curious."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5430.657,
      "index": 208,
      "start_time": 5420.094,
      "text": " I wish you the best. I'm just curious. I hope that it's great for you because then it means I could stare at my screen longer. I can study for longer. There's hope."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5450.674,
      "index": 209,
      "start_time": 5431.664,
      "text": " So I just want to point out some small things for this. I'm not sure. This has never been done before, so I don't know. Maybe I'm hurting myself too much. So guys, don't try this at home that you are watching."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5469.224,
      "index": 210,
      "start_time": 5450.674,
      "text": " I do this stuff by the way out of curiosity because I want to see and taste and put my toes keep my toes into the future. So with wearing this headset, I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5487.398,
      "index": 211,
      "start_time": 5469.531,
      "text": " I feel that we're not going to have phones in the future because it's very convenient to see everything like now I'm like bringing even with my dashboard here I have my dashboard in front of me by the way I'm recording this on my headset as well so people after they will see what I'm watching now and I kind of"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5503.012,
      "index": 212,
      "start_time": 5487.858,
      "text": " Click Instagram, I can close Instagram, I can open WhatsApp, and it's super convenient to have like a big screen in front of you and position it everywhere that you want. So with doing these things and kind of seeing"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5530.52,
      "index": 213,
      "start_time": 5503.012,
      "text": " how the future looks like. By the way, I just want to say like this was hugely, hugely, hugely impactful for me. Like the way that you do things, the way that you see things deeply and the way that you do your podcast as well inspires me as well to do a lot of things. And probably you don't think about this, your impact that you have to others with your podcast, other podcasters, the humans, but"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5540.35,
      "index": 214,
      "start_time": 5531.101,
      "text": " It's very exciting for me to have this opportunity. And now with the last question. You are going to die after this podcast."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5562.244,
      "index": 215,
      "start_time": 5541.032,
      "text": " And if you actually die in like 10, 20, 30 years from now, people can come back and look at this 30, 40 seconds to hear your message, what you have to say. This 30, 40 seconds was your actual last words, what you had to say to the world."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5602.551,
      "index": 216,
      "start_time": 5573.251,
      "text": " well it would be to my wife I would direct it to my wife and I would say I love you and it would be okay everything will be okay if it was to the world I don't I don't like I be good locally and take care of the widows and orphans and the homeless have some criteria that when you interact with with a"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5632.773,
      "index": 217,
      "start_time": 5603.319,
      "text": " a homeless person you give some amount of money something like that like have some rules about that and help the help the the people who need help and I know I understand that that that's some kind of that's in that stands or seems to stand in contradiction with the trillion dollar throwing away but I think there's something much there's something more powerful about"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5665.452,
      "index": 218,
      "start_time": 5644.428,
      "text": " Yeah, about us. About us all. About doing our part. Doing one's part. And that's different. It's different. It's more meaningful. Way, way more meaningful. And I just don't trust myself with the money. But anyway."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5679.462,
      "index": 219,
      "start_time": 5666.783,
      "text": " That's all. It would be directed to my wife if anything. Thank you so much. I love you. Thank you for your time. And I wish you to have the best 2024 of your life. Thank you, man. You as well, man. Take care."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5705.503,
      "index": 220,
      "start_time": 5680.111,
      "text": " If you enjoyed this and you would like to hear more from me, then there are a couple examples of me being interviewed. One is coming up. You've heard me interview Jesse Michaels. Well, Jesse Michaels interviewed me one year ago and we're going to be mirroring it on this platform. Also, there are Ask Me Anythings and you can just search on YouTube or hear AMA's Kurt. There are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma loves you and she would never say no to McDonald's. So treat yourself to a Grandma McFlurry"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5719.002,
      "index": 221,
      "start_time": 5708.319,
      "text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 5743.131,
      "index": 222,
      "start_time": 5723.507,
      "text": " . . . . . . ."
    }
  ]
}

No transcript available.