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Ross Coulthart: Recovered UAPs, Whistleblower Grusch [Part 2]
July 4, 2023
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This is real. There is an intelligence source by the name of David Grush who has come forward saying that he is aware of a crash retrieval program that has been illegally kept secret from the American public. He's also alleged by the way, bodies
Ross Coulthart is a world-renowned investigative journalist who's built a career reporting on issues ranging from war to corporate malfeasance to what brings us here today, namely the UAP topic. His work includes award-winning documentaries, for instance, many of them from the 60 Minutes Australia, as well as the UFO phenomenon.
Ross has a notable book titled In Plain Sight, which serves as a fantastic, sober, no-fluff introduction to the subject and links as usual to everything is in the description. Recently, Ross has made headlines for his interview with UFO whistleblower David Grush, a former member of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, also known as AERO, and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, where Grush made claims about the existence of non-human origin vehicles, as well as even bodies.
That interview gained worldwide attention. The last interview with Ross on the Theories of Everything podcast is one of the most viewed of all of the podcasts on tow. Needless to say, this episode, a second part with Ross, is one of the most requested. My name is Kurt Jamal.
and I have a podcast here called Theories of Everything, where I use my background in mathematical physics to analyze theories of everything, predominantly from a theoretical physics perspective, though I'm interested in other approaches as to what's fundamental. Is presentism correct? What about holism over reductionism? What about consciousness? Where does experience come into play? What ontological status does mathematics have? You can think of it as explorations of the largest mysteries of the universe without already having some defined position that I'm advocating for and
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Good morning Kurt. Well Ross, how's your morning going? My morning is terrific Kurt. I'm having my first cup of coffee and it's bitterly cold here in Australia where I live. Probably a bit warmer where you are, but I'm very, very happy because I've just seen the Douglas Dean Johnson report on
Some legislation that I've known is coming for a while, which is the Gillibrand Amendment, which essentially requires holders of non-Earth origin or exotic UAP materials. They give them six months to make it available to Aro, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office. And whilst it's dry and dusty legislation, it's extraordinarily significant to see the Pentagon
Putting in black and white text references to non-human origin technology. Essentially, it's an explicit admission of what people like myself and David Grush, the UAP witness, have known for some considerable time that there are witnesses that have come forward to the Congress, oversight committees, notably the House Permanent Select Committee,
for intelligence and also the senate select committee for intelligence and multiple witnesses whether the debunkers and denialists want to know it or not have given evidence about their knowledge of a legacy crash retrieval and reverse engineering program that is in operation right now that your country Canada is involved in
And I think slowly but surely we are incrementally getting closer to an acknowledgement that there is a truth behind all of this. You said that you and David Grush know about you feel as if you know this. I've been in the difficult position even the first time that I spoke to you of having confidential sources who are not yet prepared to go public and
In recent times, David Grush, of course, has been one of them. People who support his contention that there is a crash retrieval program that has been in existence for some considerable time involving the retrieval of non-human technology and that there has been secret agreements within the Five Eyes Alliance for the retrieval of that technology
And more importantly, that the United States in collaboration with other countries has been involved in the attempted reverse engineering of that technology. And yes, I have multiple witnesses who brought to be knowledgeable about the legacy UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program, including David Grush, who are at the right time prepared to come forward with their evidence.
Evidence other than testimonial coming? Yeah, there probably will be. I mean, I think a lot depends, frankly, on how the Congress handles it from here. I'll be honest with you, my friend, I'm very skeptical, quite glum at the moment about the possibilities that the Congress is going to run with this. I do see and hear from individual representatives and senators who are dedicated and determined
To get to the truth of this matter, but I think that there are competing interests here. You have to, I don't want to sound like some wacky conspiracy theorist, but the reality is that the military and the intelligence community in the United States are an extremely formidable and powerful lobby in the Congress. Many congressmen and senators are reliant on support from that industry for their continued reelection.
including people who sit on the respective committees in the Congress. And really, I think at the moment, where we're at at the moment is you have, since David Grush went public a few weeks ago, you have people in the skeptic debunker camp, and quite rightly, I think, saying, well, where's the evidence? And debunkers quite rightly say, well, he hasn't provided any yet.
But I think there's a bit of willful blindness going on there. People are ignoring the fact that Mr. Grush legally faces criminal prosecution if he reveals the full extent of what he knows and about which he has testified not only to the two congressional intelligence committees, but also to the inspector general of defense and the inspector general of the intelligence community.
And I don't want to sound like a long-winded lawyer, and I really think I have to keep on saying this until the sun goes down. But the simple fact is his evidence has been provided under oath to the relevant government agencies and committees that are entitled to hear it. And I respect and understand why there are officials in our intelligence community and defense community
who want to keep certain aspects highly confidential. I can actually understand why they're doing that. Knowing what I know, not from David Grush, but from other sources, I can understand why certain things, certain technologies, certain potential weaponries, certain capabilities are being kept confidential. What I do find increasingly bewildering is the reluctance of mainstream media
to acknowledge a growing reality. I've just this morning read a stupid piece written by a columnist in my national newspaper in Australia, the Australian newspaper. And it's a column entitled space aliens are everywhere. Oh, wait. And essentially, it's a piss take. It's a it's an attack on so called conspiracists who've
I said that the Pentagon knows all about UFOs, but have withheld it from the president and the Congress, preferring to exploit the non-human technology. And essentially it's a piss-take. It's a laugh. The whole idea, the whole concept that there might be some veracity to this. And the thing that really shocks me is I guess I'm lucky because I've been talking to people now for several years who have a knowledge of this program. I mean, no data exists.
People can call me a tinfoil hat crazy as much as they like, but the simple fact is it's real and it's slowly but surely dribbling out. I've spoken to senators and representatives in the Congress and staffers who've told me that they have been in the room when credible witnesses have given evidence, multiple witnesses have given evidence about retrieved non-human technology.
So my friend, the only question in my mind, and I'm very, very skeptical in light of the ridiculous blowback from even people in the UFO UAP community who should know better skills for the Pentagon, people who are conspiring in the cover up. There is a real problem at the moment in getting mainstream media engagement on this issue.
And it's not that there's some dark conspiracy, there's not some intelligence service, black men in black, telling editors not to run the story. What this is, is a residual stigma, a taboo that's been attached to this subject so well. And the hilarious thing is, I'm actually talking to people in the military who want this story out from within the high levels at the Pentagon.
Who are frustrated that the national mainstream media is not engaging with this issue. They are incredulous that the disinformation campaign has been so effective that you've now got newspapers like the New York Times and the Washington Post either dismissing or passing or taking their time dragging their feet on deciding whether or not they want to investigate the allegations of a man like David Grush.
Frankly, mate, I don't know what's going on in the national newspapers in the US, Canada and Australia and the UK and most of the world's major newspapers anymore. When an intelligence insider of the caliber of David Grush comes forward, somebody who has indubitable credible credentials, who the Pentagon in the three or four weeks since he went public,
Has not laid a glove on his credibility. Don't you think, don't you think if there was anything that they could pull out of the cupboard to attack David Grush with, the Pentagon would have done by now. They are desperately trying to plug the leaks and stop this from coming out. They're terrified that they are involved and indeed according to Mr. Grush involved in a potentially criminal conspiracy.
There are people at the highest levels of the Pentagon who have knowingly covered up and concealed from the Congress knowledge of a non-human intelligence. And they've done this for 80 plus years. And the thing that is fascinating to me is we now have legislation that my colleague and friend Douglas Dean Johnson has written about today.
Which specifically states that there's now a bill written by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, which gives holders of non-earth origin or exotic UAP material, essentially an amnesty to come forward with what they know. Why would Congress demand the necessity for such legislation if they didn't know something? And what is going wrong with the curiosity of the world's greatest newspapers?
This is not, as some charge, a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Don't buy into the line that this is some spurious allegation made by some wacky, ill-informed intelligence operative. This is somebody, David Grush is somebody who at the very highest levels of the US intelligence community was cleared to top secret, compartmented intelligence.
More than 2000 special access programs. This is a guy with one of the highest clearances in the US intelligence community who was tasked by a congressional mandate to go out as part of the UAP task force to investigate the phenomenon, to find out the truth of what America really knows. And you know what he found?
He found a hidden crash retrieval legacy UFO reverse engineering program that's been going on since the 1940s and 50s. And frankly, I'm at the stage at the moment where if America's mainstream media and political leadership doesn't want to engage with this issue, then let them deny it. And then if the American public don't care about it,
Let them get on with their lives. Because. Inherently at the heart of all of this, and I know you have a lot of scientists in your community of watches could. I'm talking to people inside the legacy program who tell me frustratedly with great emotion, how much as scientists they care about the fact that this knowledge is being kept from a huge chunk of the human race.
that only a select cadre of people inside the intelligence and military establishment are privy to this information. And they think, they tell me, it's unwarranted, it's unjustifiable. They acknowledge that we should not let our potential adversaries, Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, gain access to such dangerous technologies.
But they see no reason why the human race can't be told what they tell me is the truth, which is there are NIH's non-human intelligences that have been engaging with this planet for many, many thousands of years. Thousands, not tens of thousands. Oh, well, I can't specify tens of thousands. I've just, you know, it would be more than tens of thousands. I mean, they've been with us for time immemorial, I'm told.
No. Millions. That's your that's your words, my friend. I don't know. I don't know for sure. But the simple fact is I'm kind of I'm bored with this debate at the moment. You know, I don't care anymore. I just think. You know, people. There's a fundamental failure here of oversight. I know a lot of people are going to get excited with what this new legislation says.
I want to deal with that because I think it's important that we talk about it. But I have a gut feeling that congress is hot is not in this. And that the lobby the powerful military lobby that wants this suppressed is winning. And sure enough they've got their shields out there in social media they've got their friends in the media you know every national security correspondent is being told on the qt stay away from this one on the qt.
Can you explain how this works? Yeah, sure. I mean, I've reported on national security issues. The thing I find hilarious is, let's use an analogy. Let's talk about what happened at the time of the last Gulf War, shortly after the Al-Qaeda attacks, 2002, 2003. For some reason that has never been even now fully properly explained, Al-Qaeda became Iraq,
and Afghanistan and we ended up launching totally disastrous wars into both of those countries based on intelligence from sources. Okay. Now ask yourself credulous national security reporters who have since been hung out to drive for their failure to do their job properly accepted assurances from the CIA, from Cole Powell and his testimony to the UN.
This was an important moment where the world was essentially strict into going to war against Saddam Hussein on the false claim that he had weapons of mass destruction in the Iraqi desert. That was all sourced back largely in part to one guy called Curveball. That was his code name, Curveball, a guy based, I think, somewhere in Germany, who was a refugee. And it turned out he was a put up by the Iraqi National Congress, who were essentially
a group that were largely aligned with Iran. And because of credulous national security reporters not doing their job, a source led the world to war in the Middle East. Billions of dollars have been expended in an unnecessary war. Hundreds of thousands of lives of good people have been lost in an unnecessary war.
Now the problem with that was you had largely American journalists, but also British and Australian journalists. And I cut myself in this as well. I was involved in doing some of these stories. You know, we credulously accepted the assurances that the Americans were giving that there were weapons of mass destruction in the Iraqi desert and that they had to be an engagement with Saddam Hussein to bring this to a resolution to stop this evil man from doing these terrible things.
The reality was that it soon emerged within a few weeks of the invasion, that there weren't these WMDs. The whole pretext for the war was wrong. The intelligence was wrong. So you have a double standard here. You have the media back in 2003, what's that, 18 years ago, credulously accepting assurances from the National Assurance Security Establishment. But, oh yeah, we should believe our sources. Yeah, yeah, we should go to war in the Middle East. Absolutely. Now we've got a situation where
A highly reputable, credible intelligence source, somebody who personally hand delivered the presidential daily briefings from the National Geospatial Agency directly to the west wing of the White House, entrusted with 2,000 special access programs, goes public and makes very dramatic and, yeah, I'm sure quite ontologically shocking claims about an NHI presence, an alien presence on this planet.
How many stories have you seen in the news sections of the New York Times, the Washington Post, or any of the TV networks, ABC, CBS, NBC? Not one. The only stories that have run in the New York Times or the Washington Post are doubting op-ed pieces run by opinion writers that are very easily marginalized. Why is it?
That on the one hand, 18 years ago, the same national security reporters were so credulously willing to accept and to parrot the assertions of intelligence officials that, oh yes, that we do have high evidence, strong evidence to support a war in the Middle East. And 18 years later, yet again, their critical faculties are under test. Hear that sound?
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Why are they accepting what I assume is going on behind the scenes, which is background briefings from people in Pentagon PR saying, oh, no, no, this is all nonsense. You know, don't believe this guy. He's got an axe to grind or whatever it is they're saying about David Grush. The reality is if they had
I have not seen any credible refutation drawing any reasonable doubt about why David Grush should not be allowed to say what he's saying. Yes, he hasn't put up the evidence that he can't put up because it's classified.
But why on earth did the defense office of pre-publication security review give him the authorization to talk about non-human intelligence, about crash retrievals, about agreements? Why did he do that? He did that because he believes on the basis of evidence he has received, he thinks the American public and the world have the right to know the truth.
And frankly, if we are going to continue with the incredible lack of curiosity inside the mainstream media, we're not one news reporter has engaged with this issue in a serious way. They've all just ignored it. They've gone, Oh my God, I can't talk about that because if I talk about that, I won't get invited to the next Pentagon.
Chomsky talked about this in manufacturing consent as well for the Vietnam War, but it's not just the UFO topic like you mentioned, it's the Iraq War as well. It's something that's known about. Yeah, and look, it's a really important one because
It's part of David Grush's allegations and they are only allegations. He's been at pains to say, yeah, sure, I've got the evidence. If you want the evidence, put me under oath in the right circumstances where I'm allowed to give that evidence and I will provide it. But he's not about to put himself in jail by revealing what he knows in a public forum because the Pentagon knows that they have him
Where they want him if he reveals beyond what he's authorized to reveal in the so called DOPSA, the defense office, pre publication security review document. If he goes beyond that document, he's in jail in a flash for breaching his classified constraints. So you have a really, which I really think people need to particularly opinion leaders, particularly thought leaders in politics,
Social media. We're now in a situation where the Congress, I know, because I've been talking to people in the Congress, has actively interviewed and deposed witnesses who support Russia's claims. That's why this legislation that Douglas Dean Johnson has written about today is so significant. Why would the Congress be talking about companies that are holding secretly
Items of non-earth origin or exotic UAP material if they didn't think there was something to it. The people behind this move, Gillibrand, Marco Rubio, it's not unreasonable to expect that they have presidential ambitions one day.
Would they really put their presidential ambitions on the line by making assertions implicit in legislation like this if they didn't think there was something to it? And what on earth is going on inside the major newspapers in America, Canada, the UK, Australia, that this issue is just consistently ignored and swept under the carpet?
Yeah, I mean, we didn't go when I was approached by David and it was suggested that I do this TV interview. I didn't even consider going to ABC, CBS or NBC. You know why? Because I knew we wouldn't have got within QE of getting it on air. And the reason why is because all of these networks, all of these major newspapers have completely lost their objectivity on national security issues.
It's really interesting. One of the things I've noticed just in the last few hours while this whole pre-Gaussian advance on Moscow has been going on, the best commentary has not been coming from the New York Times or the Washington Post, because all of these institutions, they no longer have the resources to have their reporters on the ground doing the work that these kind of papers used to do. They're waiting for the Pentagon to tell them what to say. And that's the tragedy.
What's really going on and this is why social media i think in the long run will be the entity that breaks the story of the reality because mainstream legacy media.
which i've been apart for so many years has completely dropped the ball on the uap issue that's the problem and it's a it's a huge dilemma because i i suspect that there are people in the pentagon right now who feel that they've done a really good job suppressing this story that david grush has been effectively marginalized
And they're working, I'm sure, behind the scenes right now to try and neuter any congressional inquiries. I mean, for example, Tim Burchette, the Tennessee representative, and Koma, the chairman of the oversight committee in the House, they volunteered that they want a hearing. They want an investigative hearing by the oversight committee into Dave Grush's allegations. And they've made it quite clear they'd like to call Grush.
But there's no way they have the clearances to hear what David Grush wants to tell them. It's pointless. I mean, I have huge respect for their motivations and what they're trying to achieve. But even if they do it in camera, it's not entirely clear to me that all of the members of the oversight committee that would want to hear this evidence have the Title 10, Title 50 clearances that would allow them to hear
What has been so well locked up by the national security establishment behind special access programs for so many years. And people are missing the point here. Everywhere you go on this story, the Pentagon's there ahead of you. And I'm not painting some evil picture. There are really good people at the Pentagon that I respect and admire. Good people in the intelligence community who are extremely well motivated and who want this story out.
They are as frustrated as we all are with the fact that there's a lot of nonsense being used to disguise and hide what the Pentagon and the government really knows. But unfortunately, there are a cadre of people who I suspect are frightened of being held responsible for the consequences of their actions, who have presided over what I suspect is a long and enduring cover-up for decades.
And it's quite astonishing because in my line of work as a journalist, you always get taught to assume a screw up before a conspiracy. Very rarely do conspiracies happen, largely because governments can't keep secrets. But in this case, they have kept this secret. They've done an incredible job. And when it's leaked, they've been able to marginalize, ridicule, and stigmatize the people who've come forward.
Because people say, oh, it's never leaked, you know, therefore it can't be true. It has leaked. People have come forward. But what the National Security Establishment has done so well through operatives of disinformation who continue to get traction to my huge frustration, even on social media today, and I'm not going to name them, but there are people that consistently appear on social media and plant false information who purport to be representing government agencies, and they're not.
All there are are shills of disinformation and they're there to essentially continue to sow doubt about the issue. It's brilliant. I take my hat off to them. They've done a fantastic job. But I can tell you the Congress or there are individuals in the Congress who are determined to get to the bottom of this. And this legislation, this bill that Senator Gillibrand has now brought to the House or is about to bring to the House is incredibly important.
It's vitally important that this legislation pass because it's only a bill at this time. Do you think it will? It's a tough gig. I mean, okay, it's a bipartisan measure. Both sides of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence want this bill to pass. Marco Rubio is for it as well. I think ultimately what it boils down to is whether there is the political will
In the congress and the political world is derived from public sentiment and at the moment you know i would say that because of the control that mainstream media has even to this day on social opinion public opinion i would say it's a line ball at the moment whether or not the congress is going to back it and and certainly i think there probably will be
Private in-camera secret congressional hearings like there already have been. I mean, what we're talking about here, it's already known. Marco Rubio, Senator Gillibrand, they already know what I know. They already know about the legacy program and the reverse engineering program because there have been depositions of witnesses, plural, who have provided evidence to their committees to support the claims made by David Grush.
People missed this point. Secretly, inside the Congress now, for quite some time, many, many months, there have been hearings where witnesses have come forward. I'm told at least one of those hearings, Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor for the President, may very well have been involved. Why are the White House press corps not asking questions like this?
Did you see that ridiculous question and answer with, forgive me if I've got her name, is it Corrine Jean-Pierre, the presidential spokeswoman? Lovely woman, but she was asked the other day about the claims made by Mr. Grush, and she just deferred it. She just ducked past it to the Pentagon and said, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that. Why is it satisfactory for the White House press corps, supposedly the elite of media in the world,
To allow the presidential spokesperson to duck a question that is absolutely fundamental. When a very senior intelligence operative recently resigned has come forward saying all these incredible things. They may well be incredible. They may very well be ontologically shocking to people. But why is the media not doing its job and asking the question? Why did the White House press call when that question was asked?
just let the presidential spokeswoman duck it and say, Oh, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that. Because what the Pentagon then does is it says arrow, which is the Pentagon's UFO investigation office has no credible evidence to support, you know, the existence of extraterrestrial presence on planet earth or something like that. And that's not an answer. The Pentagon is confining its answers to arrow and arrow is heavily constrained in
Where it's allowed to look and what it's allowed to do, because it doesn't have the security clearances it needs to make the investigations it needs to be able to do into special access programs that are concealing allegedly these hidden programs. And so you've got this, you've got this catchall where the public is being fed a line and where you see, you know, columns like this in my national newspaper, which are just spurious nonsense.
Where they essentially, without any justification, they make a claim that it's all a conspiracy theory. And they don't look at the fact that the Pentagon is saying, gee, we think this is serious enough to put in legislation reference to technology of non-Earth origin. Gee, as journalists, maybe we should ask the question, why is the Pentagon being asked
Why are private aerospace being asked to reveal if they have items of non-earth origin, if there's nothing to this? Why is it good enough? I mean, do you get the feeling I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over again? Because I do. I mean, I don't know what has happened to the capacity for critical thinking that used to be in the American media I know.
I mean, what happens to the brave and resolute congressmen and women who would ask tough questions? The Daniel Inouyees, the Harry Reads, the people who would actually stand up and question. Are we to accept that now Congress's role is to meekly rubber stamp what the Pentagon and the intelligence community say? Because we're being played here. Even this legislation,
that is coming up in the Gillibrand bill. It's very constrained in what it allows the in what it requires these companies to do. Under my reading of this legislation. If the aerospace company
was privately involved in the recovery of non-human technology. If it didn't use the US government to recover that technology, it doesn't have to report it to Aero. It doesn't have to report it to Congress. And I'm told that on multiple occasions, private aerospace companies using private military contractors have been involved in crash retrievals.
I can hear the debunkers and the declaimers rolling their eyes and going wacky conspiracy theory. I don't care what you guys think. I know what my sources are telling me. And my sources are telling me that private aerospace companies have been involved in private retrievals. And under the Senate Intelligence Committee proposed legislation, I don't think there would be an obligation on those private aerospace companies to reveal what they have.
Another loophole in this legislation that's a worry to me is that if a private aerospace company is in possession of technology that was recovered with government assistance or was passed on to them by government, say 50, 60, 70 years ago, if they divest themselves of that technology, then they're not required under my reading of this bill to report it to the Congress or to the arrow.
What do you mean if they divest themselves of the technology? Okay, well, I understand at the moment. I'll tell you my understanding. This is how much I know. I am told that right at this very moment, there is a major private aerospace company that is trying to divest itself of a craft. It has approached another company expressing interest in selling that technology to them. And the reason why
I suspect it's because they've known this legislation is coming. That's what's going on here. You know, you have private aerospace companies that are actively involved in trying to subvert the intention of Congress. Now roll your eyes. I don't care. The simple fact is there are people who are telling me this from within the
The legacy program who are very concerned that there is an active attempt underway to hide technology from the Congress. And there's another issue here. Another issue is if a private aerospace company has been involved in a retrieval, as I understand they have been by law, it's their property. Sure. They may have to reveal it to the Congress, but by law,
There's a very, very good argument that they are under no obligation to hand over that technology or to give the knowledge to the government. And that's because there's actually a law called the law of ownership and control of meteorites. And essentially, there are provisions in international law that mean that it's not just meteorites. Essentially,
If you come into possession of something and you've spent the money on recovering it yourself, it's an incentive for people to develop the technology that might arise from that recovery, that they enjoy the private ownership of that material. So one of the issues that we have behind all of this is let's assume hypothetically that there are private aerospace companies that have been sitting on technology for 50, 60, 70 years.
In the first category, let's say Roswell happened in 1947, and let's say around about 1950 or so, perhaps in the 1970s, the Roswell craft was passed on to a private aerospace company. What happens then if they've had possession of that object for 50, 60 years? Does the US government really have a claim on that technology? In law, there's a question mark. And what if
As I noticed, somebody was recently asserting just in the last 24 hours on Twitter. What if say technology from recoveries in the US has been moved extraterritorially into Canada? Oh, gee, that's interesting. What if Canada was secretly in possession of retrieved technology that is owned by a US aerospace company and being worked on by, say, Canadian government scientists in collaboration with US scientists?
What's the law on that? Does the US Congress have extraterrestrial control over that technology? Interesting question. And then separately from that, another loophole that you could drive a truck through here is what if those private aerospace companies have recovered that technology using private military contractors, as I understand it has very much been the case in the last few years,
What if it's been entirely recovered by those private aerospace companies, perhaps in collaboration with the U.S. government, but they've spent all the money and all the resources on doing that. Shouldn't they ought properly to have the rights to that technology? I mean, imagine hypothetically if it is true. Imagine, just imagine if it is true that say Lockheed Martin, let's say Lockheed Martin has a spacecraft. Let's say they've got a
a perfectly operating flying saucer from, say, Kingman, Texas, sitting on blocks somewhere in a cave, sitting in a private facility somewhere. Why do they have to give that technology knowledge to the Congress? And why should they? They're a private aerospace company. They've got they've got every reason to want to develop an advantage over the around over their corporate rivals. Even if that company was dealing with the government,
Well, that's the issue. The issue is, I've spoken to people at a very high level in Silicon Valley who have resources and money, who are very angry that they believe technology was gifted, vested into private aerospace companies 50, 60 years ago when they didn't exist. And they're now aware of this. And what they're not angry about is that the public don't know about it. What they're angry about is that they've not been cut into it. That's what's going on here.
And it may all sound like a wacky conspiracy theory, but let's see it investigated. Grush has made these claims. He has risked his career. He's risked his security classification to come forward and give evidence. And he's done it by the book. He still has those security classifications. He does. Okay. Can I summarize the Grush story and see if I have it correct? Sure.
The crush is a senior official he has was was a senior official has or had plenty of access to different secret parts of the government secret activities I'm trying to make this simple for myself and the audience as well.
He's like, okay, I'm seeing something here that has to do with non-human intelligence. I'm hearing it through the grapevine. I perhaps have seen doc. No, no, it's more, it's, it's more, more than through the grapevine. He's spoken directly. He's spoken directly with people in the legacy programs or people who at least purport to have had direct knowledge and contact with non-human technology. Okay. Then he's like people, namely the public should know about this.
Okay, how do I go about doing this? Because I don't want to go to jail. So I'm going to go to a part of the government. There's a part of the government called DOPSR. So Defense Office of Pre-Publication Security Review. It's when somebody's got a security clearance, they need to get authorization to speak publicly about whatever it is they want to speak about.
They write down in a proposal what they want to say and then DOPSA approves it. And that's exactly what he's done here. He's gone to DOPSA, the defense office, pre-publication security review office, and they have approved him revealing what he's revealed. Okay. So then he tells them, here's what I want to tell the public. And then they say yes or no, but the parts they say yes to. Sure. And just to be just to be clear, Kurt,
The fact that DOPSA gives that approval is not an endorsement that what he is saying is necessarily true. All it is, is merely an endorsement that what he is saying is not breaching national security because that's their role. Their role is to make sure that the statements that he makes don't breach his security classification. Okay. So they're not saying that it's true. They're just saying that what you're saying is not classified.
Okay, so then he goes on with you and this huge news story breaks and he says that there are non-human intelligences or non-human crafts and bodies. So what I was thinking is there's this no-win scenario here because if he says extraordinary claims, then we can just say, yeah, but the government said that that's not classified. If that was going on, that would be classified. They would say, please don't talk about that. Well, that's what's going through my head and plenty of others. So how do you think about that?
Okay, I mean, I think he had to get DOPSA approval in order to do the interview that he did with myself and that he did with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. And he did that. And as I've emphasized, that approval in and of itself doesn't mean it's a warranty by the Defense Department that what he's saying is true.
But if the defense department had not wanted him to do the interview, then they would have had to have cited the laws that he was breaching by revealing what he knows. And then as he's explained it to me to, to be forced to, he would have taken them on in court and challenged them on that. And he was ready to do that because if, as he asserts, there is illegal and possibly criminal
withholding of evidence from the Congress. That legal challenge would have given him the right to present evidence that would then have validated his claims publicly in a way that would have been incontrovertible for the Defense Department. So the only choice that they had when presented with the DOPSA application was to give him the approval because they couldn't risk
If he's telling the truth, they couldn't risk the damage that would be caused if they try to cover this up of this being forced out into the open in an open hearing in a court. Because there are lawyers who are prepared to take this to the highest courts in the land. There are people in
companies in America who are angry that they have been cut out of the vesting of technology that allegedly occurred 50, 60 years ago. And there is bitterness that a small cadre of private aerospace companies in the military intelligence community with a long association with the US government have been given alleged access to this technology in a way that other companies haven't.
Not least because those companies feel they have a better job, a better capacity of developing the technologies than the private aerospace companies that have been trying to do it for 50 or 60 years. That's what's behind all of this. It's not really a public campaign. What's driving the moves in Congress is that privately there are companies that are bitterly angry that they have been cut out of the loop.
It's part of American capitalism, free enterprise, good old free enterprise, that companies should be able to compete for contracts with, you know, to help the American government do what it does well. If it's true that there are companies that have been given access to non-human alien technology and that they've had that technology now for 60, 70, 80 years, if that's true, and that's what Mr. Grush is alleging, if that's true,
Then there are other companies in America that have every right to feel resentful and bitter that they've been cut out of the deal. It might explain the reason for some of the dominant companies in defense aerospace today. This is what's at stake here. And so what's going on behind the scenes is yes, there is a formidable military and intelligence lobby
trying to shut this whole Grush stuff down, trying to stop the Senate Intelligence Committee from holding public hearings. And it's the Senate Intelligence Committee, by the way, that has the security clearances that would allow it to hear the evidence that Mr. Grush has got. But what's going on behind the scenes is quietly and behind the scenes, there are other people who are not part of that defense aerospace loop.
who are bitterly angry and they are lobbying their congressmen as well and they're saying if this is true and i think it is because i've had conversations with some of these people if this is true this is outrageous this is an abrogation of the good qualities of american capitalism and free enterprise why should these private aerospace companies be given a free run hence this groundbreaking legislation which for once and for all is going to force
the truth to come to the open. If it's true that there is non-human technology of non-earth origin held by private aerospace companies somewhere in the world, under this law that's proposed, they will now be forced to reveal it. That's why this matters. But as a separate issue, I don't know necessarily that the public is going to get told this. I think that there is quite a
a strong opinion inside the Congress, even amongst some of the people pushing for disclosure, that if we can get away with revealing this to the Congress privately in oversight committees inside secure, compartmented information, secret, you know, compartmented information facilities, or whatever the word is for a skiff, it might be the better way to do it.
I don't think there is a push or a strong feeling in the Congress politically that it's a good idea for America to know, if it's true, that there are non-human intelligences engaging with this planet. I don't think that there is a strong political impetus for the politicians to feel that it's time for the existence of the retention of non-human technology to be brought to public attention.
But I do feel, and this is what people need to understand, there is an imperative inside the Congress now for the truth to be brought to the attention of those oversight committees. And it's what those oversight committees decide to do with that information that will be absolutely fundamental. I mean, no disrespect to, I think, Mark Warner, who's the chairman of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence. But he's, I think, based in Virginia. I mean, who are his constituency in Virginia?
The military and intelligence community. What does the military and intelligence community likely want done about some revelations of retained, highly advanced technology? Well, if I was them, if I was the CIA, the NSA, the DIA, I'd want it kept confidential so that we can develop it for our own advantage and try and develop a superiority over the Russians or the Chinese. It's not hard.
I wouldn't want it made public and I'd be lobbying the chairman of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence to keep it confidential. But I think that what's slowly happening is people misunderstand and I think there's a large amount of the social media commentary at the moment on UAPs who think that what we're heading towards is some mass disclosure event. I don't think that's going to happen. I really don't. I think that what is probably going to be happening is that a very controlled disclosure
And I think they will learn that, yes, there is retrieved non-human technology and that there is a secret reverse engineering program going on in which your country, Canada, is involved intimately. And if people dug into that, they'd find a whole lot more if they only bothered to ask, don't you find it by the way extraordinary, Kurt?
Absolutely extraordinary that this Larry Maguire letter can leak. Jeremy Corbell and NAP leak this letter. I've known about this letter for some time. And in fact, it was posted back in May by another source on Twitter and it was completely ignored by people. Daniel Otis, a very respectable journalist from Canada has noted that this document was actually up online as early as May.
But it actually says Larry McGuire alleges to the Minister of National Defence in Canada, quote, You may not be aware, Defence Research and Development Canada, DRDC, that's Canada's equivalent, if you like, of DARPA, the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, has participated in efforts to analyse UAP, which is publicly traceable to circa 1950.
This recovered foreign material is studied through the Five Eyes Foreign Material Program, the FMP, which in Canada is sponsored by the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command, aligned with several intelligence sharing arrangements and treaties. Now, Maguire, who's not a senior member of parliament, but he's obviously spoken, and I know he has, he's spoken to people inside that program.
I know he's spoken to scientists and people with a direct knowledge of that retrieval program. But what's not happening is the spin is starting. People are now coming back and saying, oh, the only thing he knows is stuff that Grant Cameron's told him from public sources. That's not true. And Mr. McGuire needs to be pushed. And a good journalist in Canada needs to get on the phone to Mr. McGuire or
Stick a TV camera in front of him and say to him, sir, what are you alleging? When you told your defense minister that DRDC has been working in efforts to analyze UAP, what is your knowledge based on? Is it just based on what you've read in somebody else's book, or is it based on direct conversations with sources? And I think he will tell you the latter. Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store
Larry Maguire, if you're watching, I would love to have you on if you're willing to answer questions like this. Now, what worries me is that
We're not seeing the follow up from media i'm trained as an investigative journalist to ask questions like that because i've learned to read between the lines in what are you serious so when susan goth the pentagon PR woman stands up and says that arrow has found no credible evidence of et. That sounds like a pentagon denial but it's not.
Because she's speaking for arrow, which is not a body in the Pentagon that has the clearances to even ask the questions that need to be asked. And so we've got this ridiculous containment going on of information where a glib accepting credulous media in the mainstream media is allowing a continued peddling of falsehood and
People like myself who are engaging directly with people in the program who are watching to see what happens and weighing whether to come forward. I'm getting increasingly pessimistic because whilst legislation like this, this bill is important. You could drive a truck through the loopholes in it. And as I've pointed out, as I've pointed out, you know,
A clever lawyer for a big defense zero space company could go, look, all we need to do is develop a front company, divested into that front company, and we no longer have physical possession of that information. So let's, let's just do that. I mean, there is any number of ways they can evade accountability to the Congress. What is needed and what I suspect is not going to happen is the kind of proactive investigation that David Grush did.
Because this is the issue. In the comments that were made by Susan Gough, the Pentagon PR woman, she said there is no restriction to Aro, the Pentagon's UFO investigation office, receiving, that's the important point, receiving any past or present UAP related information, regardless of the affiliation of the original classification authority within DOD or the intelligence community.
Receiving is the pertinent word because ARROW is set up to receive information that witnesses decide to come forward with to ARROW under the incentive provisions laid out in the National Defence Authorisation Act. And I can tell you, because I'm talking to some of them, those witnesses are sitting there looking at ARROW and they do not think that ARROW is an objective player.
They think that there is spin coming from the Pentagon, that it's being disingenuous with what it's saying, and they do not trust Arrow or its heads. People like Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, however well motivated he may be, the perception is that Arrow is not a fair player, which is why David Grush went directly to Congress, by the way, because before the National Defense Authorization Act legislation was brought in, in late December last year,
He'd already given his evidence to the oversight committees in the Congress. I suspect he would now be required to go to Arrow first under the new legislation. And he probably wouldn't do that because he doesn't trust them, because he's seen how they operate. And the point is, is that when I drew your attention then to the fact that Susan Goff's comment was restricted to Arrow receiving any past or present UAP related information,
Her whole response is predicated on the assumption that people are going to come forward. What David Grush did was proactively go out and do his job as a UAP task force investigator, and he investigated. And that's what wrong-footed the Pentagon. Because there are, I'm sorry, it's a terrible thing to have to say, but there are people in your military and intelligence community in America who are actively involved in a cover-up, and I include Canada in that as well.
There are people in both governments that do not want the story of crash retrievals and reverse engineering programs to come out. And I think a large part of that is because they're worried about the consequences for them and their careers if it's revealed that they've been actively subverting accountability to Congress. And so what David Grush did
was rather than wait for witnesses to come forward to arrow as came forward came through in the NDA legislation at the time he was working on the UAP task force he was tasked to go out and proactively investigate and that's what he did he went out and he proactively investigated he talked to some of his friends who had similar security clearances to his and as he told me in the interview to his shock and amazement
He discovered that some of them knew about the program, the legacy program. And contemporaneously with Mr. Grush, the reason he and I crossed paths is because even though neither of us have confirmed this to the other, because we don't want to betray sources, we suspect that at different times we were talking to some of the same people inside the program. Interesting.
And so I was told about the existence of this guy, David Grush, who was doing this great work, doing this proactive investigation and how he was the victim of reprisals. Reprisals? I can't go into a lot of detail, but they form the basis of his complaint to the Inspector General, both of the Defense Department and the intelligence community. But I think
It's for Mr. Grush to give evidence under oath in the Congress and in the public hearing that might be happening, where he can describe what's been happening. I'm waiting for him to have the right to explain to the public what's been going on. But frankly, I mean, I know from other witnesses, what's been going on is quite despicable. I've spoken to other witnesses who tell me that they've been threatened, that they've been told their or their families could be killed if they spoke publicly or came forward with the evidence that they have.
Um, there is a very active attempt to try to subvert the Congress's intentions in forcing this to be made knowledge to the public or at least to the Congress's attention. I mean, what people need to understand Kurt is the Congress already knows there are members, particularly of the gang of eight, not all of the Congress, some members of the Congress, some members of the Congress.
No, no, no, no, no. Some members of the Congress, only a very few select members of the Congress have the clearances that are sufficient to allow them to even hear this information. Sometimes when David Grush was giving evidence, I've heard from people who were in the room, certain people had to leave the room because they didn't have a sufficiently high clearance to hear what he was revealing. That's in this oversight committee that you're referring to? Yeah.
Okay. And do you happen to know if that split politically is even of those who have access or those who are in the know, or is it more Democrats than conservatives or vice versa? It's interesting. Actually, I'd say there's a bipartisan view at the moment that this is something that ought properly to be brought to the attention of the Congress. I wouldn't say that there's a bipartisan view at the moment that this ought to be made public. Okay.
I think people are missing this point. The motivation of good men like Christopher Mellon, Louis Elizondo and the people who've done the right thing in trying to bring this attention to the Congress is a large part of their motivation is to make sure that proper accountability controls are put in place and that if there have been
breaches of the law or crimes committed that those crimes and breaches of the law are investigated and that any people responsible are properly dealt with according to law. But whether it's decided in the interests of national security that this be brought to public attention is another question entirely. Now we know, I think it's a reasonable assumption that back in 2016 at the time of the Clinton Trump election campaign,
It's very, very clear now that there was an effort inside the Pentagon to address the fact that Hillary Clinton was going to be clearly a disclosure president. She and her husband Bill know something clearly, and they were clearly, according to the leaked WikiLeaks emails of the John Podesta emails, Podesta as the
I think he was campaign chairman for Hillary Clinton was deeply involved in negotiations with two senior former Pentagon generals in discussing disclosure, UAP disclosure. And clearly this was being driven, I suspect out of a realization that with a president that was determined to push for disclosure, there was going to have to be some candor from the defense and intelligence establishment. What's happened since is
In the intervening five years, there's been, I think, a strong pushback from the intelligence and defense community. They're really angry and nervous about the fact that this might be revealed because there is. I mean, I'm very confident there is a crash retrieval program underway where there is attempt to reverse engineering on craft.
My source, the former director of science, technology and development for the US Navy told me that and I put that in my book and he went on to introduce me to people in the legacy program who confirmed the veracity of what he said. Now, the simple fact is that I don't think there's the political will at the moment for
this to be made public. I don't think you're going to see what a lot of people in ufology dream of, which is the president standing up at a lectern and saying, ladies and gentlemen, we are not alone. I don't think the world is ready for that at the moment, or at least that's the view of the Pentagon and the intelligence community. And I think it frankly suits strategic objectives of the United States to maintain national security dominance, that it keeps the fact of recovered technology confidential.
And I do think there's a strong likelihood, if not probability, that this will all be put back in a box, that there will be quietly changes made at a very high level in Congress to ensure that the Gang of Eight, at least, is briefed properly about this. The Gang of Eight is a group of nine very senior members of Congress.
who are selected because of their seniority to be briefed into the most sensitive secrets in the US government and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a decision was made that yes we admit the existence of this program to that committee and we keep it all off the books for now.
because this is extraordinarily sensitive. That gang of eight is known, like it's known who they are. Yeah, I beg your pardon. The gang of eight is known like their names. Oh, yeah, you know, it's known. It's referred to, sorry, it's gang of eight, not gang of nine. It's well known as the primary oversight body on intelligence issues inside the Congress. And it's cleared to supposedly hear the most intimate secrets of all inside the U.S. military and intelligence establishment.
And what's been happening, allegedly, is that they have not been briefed into what you and I are discussing. Individuals on the Gang of Eight, I suspect, know some of what we're talking about. But I think that what's happened is there was a divesting of this technology as early as the 1950s and more latterly in the 1970s under Nixon.
And because it's been held for 50 or 60 years in private aerospace, it's been very ambiguous whether there is even an obligation to disclose the Congress knowledge of this. And I think it's suited everybody to keep it quiet, to keep it in private aerospace. But as people like Dr. Eric Davis have said publicly, I think he said this to Alejandro Rojas on a podcast a few years ago. He said that in 1989,
The reverse engineering program was actually shut down for a while, basically because it wasn't getting anywhere, that it was suffering from lack of funding. And that's tragic. And this is one of the reasons why there is a frustration from inside that legacy program that it's time the Congress knew. And frankly, they think the public should know because, you know, if these technologies are real,
Just for a moment, abandon all disbelief and go, if these technologies are real, if it is true that there are craft that can do what Elizondo has referred to as the five observables, positive lift, propulsion systems, instantaneous velocity, incredible speeds, even superluminal speeds, transmedium travel and stealth mode, if those technologies exist,
It means that someone somewhere has developed technologies that are far beyond known human technology. And the interesting thing is we are, I suspect at that point at the moment where even the head of the all domain anomaly resolution office, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick has admitted that there are anomalous metallic spheres
Witnessed by military and other observers around the planet for some time now that are doing anomalous things, and witnesses describe them as apparently moving under intelligent control. Something is allowing these objects that do not have any visible propulsion system to do things that we cannot explain. It suggests that there is technology there, energy systems there, technological secrets that
And for example, I mean, one of the great crises that our planet faces at the moment is the risk of global warming, the climate change. Imagine if overnight that energy system behind this technology could be used and derived to assist humanity to a clean source of energy. If that exists, and it does appear that it does exist.
Otherwise, what's propelling these objects that even the arrow admits are real? This is the thing that I find there's a logical dissonance. There's a dissonance between what we now know publicly, which is yes, UAPs are real. Yes, we are seeing anomalous objects that we cannot explain that appear to be displaying the five observables. Yes, this is real.
By implication i using a technology we do not understand i must have enormous capacities for extracting energy in a way that we do not understand and they obviously have propulsion systems that are not emitting heat or displaying a propeller or a propulsion system that we're familiar with by any definition the fact that we've admitted that such a phenomenon is real is mind-boggling
Because it means someone out there is capable of doing this. And what I find perplexing is the utter lack of curiosity. At what stage does, because I'm hearing even from within NASA and even inside the US government, I'm hearing from people who work for organizations that take an avowedly skeptical view, organizations like NASA, for example, that take an avowedly skeptical view on all of this phenomenon.
And privately they're admitting to me, yeah, this is real. It's baffling to us as well. And they are as intrigued as I am by the fact that there is this dissonance between what we know. I mean, look at the facts, make your own judgment.
We are looking at objects that are displaying the capabilities of the so-called five observables, including capacities to draw extraordinary amounts of energy and propulsion systems without any visible means of propulsion. No heat. I mean, how on earth does an object like a metallic ball stay aloft without rocket propulsion or propellers? How is it doing that?
Perhaps one explanation is that it's developed some form of anti-gravitic propulsion. Now, if such a technology exists, and frankly, prima facie, it appears to, on the US government's own admission, these objects are anomalous, they can't explain them. If these objects exist as they appear to, someone is sitting on that technology.
At what point does the world develop sufficient curiosity to compel those who know about it to come forward and admit what they know? And that's all Mr. Grush is asking. He's never expected that people would believe him just on what he said to me in the interview, or in his interview with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, what he's pleaded for as a loyal, patriotic American citizen who's played it completely by the book,
He's done the DOPSA. He's sought permission to speak. He's obtained it. He's kept within his security oath and made sure he doesn't transgress that security oath in revealing what he reveals to me or to Leslie and to Ralph. But what he said is, I am a credible former senior intelligence officer. Call my bluff. If I'm lying, I go to jail. I accept that.
Because I will have perjured myself not only before the Congress, but also before the inspectors general of defense and intelligence community. Think about that. Why would a man of such high credibility and repute come forward publicly and put himself at such risk if he's lying? All he wants is for his claims to be tested and investigated. What? What are people frightened of?
If it's not true, let's deal with it really quickly. And if it's not true, then frankly, articles like this nonsense article that appeared in the Australian newspaper just yesterday can be got rid of. It's the default media ridicule mode, where what they do is they essentially go, oh, it can't possibly be true, therefore it isn't. That's been the default mode for
Decades and what people don't realize is that it's part of crushes allegations that they've been deliberately disinformed by the pentagon and by the intelligence community that there's been an active disinformation that frankly media and movies and tv shows have been manipulated.
Literally, you've had people from the intelligence and military coming in and actually controlling and dictating by regulating access to military resources, how movies are told. Explain about that, please. Sure. For example, my co-host of my podcast, Need to Know, Bryce Zabel,
Bryce is an illustrious Hollywood screenwriter and producer and he made a TV series that was very much the precursor to X-Files called Dark Skies. And in Dark Skies it tells the story of alien beings secretly operating at the time of JFK.
infiltrating the US government and it's essentially it's a science fiction story and he postulates that JFK was murdered because of his attempts to bring this out into the open, the fact of a secret alien presence on planet earth. Now that's fiction and in one of the sequences the aliens possess humans by
Quite frighteningly emitting a ganglion from their mouth and literally putting it inside a human being and taking them over and it's quite frightening and terrifying and it's one of the graphic video images that you see on dark skies. Bryce had a lot of fun telling it. But the way he tells it, he and his co-producer colleague were approached by the Department of Navy Intelligence.
And in secret, they were approached and offered the opportunity to tell the story accurately about how aliens really do possess people. Now, they can't verify the truth of what these guys were telling them. But what both he and Brett, his colleague, attested to is that they were actually approached by a military agency and offered the opportunity to collaborate on getting the information in their fictional series as accurate as possible.
Sorry, do you put accurate as possible in quotations because you feel like they're going to feed them disinformation at this point? I don't know. I don't know. But I don't know the truth of it. I mean, I don't know if aliens do have such capacities if aliens exist.
But isn't it intriguing why would a military intelligence agency be wanting to actively involve itself in controlling the output of a fictional tv show to influence the public about a non human intelligence aliens that's been happening in hollywood for years.
And since Bryce and I spoke about that on our need to know podcast, which people, by the way, can access at www.needtoknow.today. The link will be on screen right now as well as in the description. Sure. But you know, since we spoke about that, I've heard from other people who've told me about how there's been active attempts by U.S. military and intelligence to essentially influence how movies are told when it comes to talking about non-human intelligence for decades.
Why are they doing that? What's the role of the military or the intelligence community in influencing fictional stories in Hollywood? Why would they feel the necessity to do that? I'm just asking that question. But again, it's the lack of curiosity by media because a lot of this has been dismissed as tinfoil hat nonsense and conspiracy theories. It really isn't.
I mean, I know for a fact, I've spoken directly with producers and filmmakers who've had these approaches and there are whole books written about the way out. I think it's one called, I think it's called Silver Sources. I recommend it. It's a great read. It talks about how Hollywood has routinely been meddled with by the military and intelligence community on the issue of UAPs. Can you tell me more about these fears? You said that they are across the earth and that they move about of their own will.
As viewers of my YouTube channel, which if you just go to YouTube and put in Need to Know and Kultart, you will come across documentaries that I've made for Channel 7 Australia. And in one that I made in 2022,
I interviewed a guy in Texas called Jim Marlin, who told this credible and I emphasize extraordinarily almost an unbelievable story about this metallic sphere that he has possession of. And how large are these fears? I beg your pardon? Sorry. How large are we speaking of? Oh, the sphere that he had is sort of, you know, it's about that big. Okay. It's I think it's from memory. It was about 40, 40 to 50 pounds.
For those listening, Ross just gestured with his hands and it's approximately arms length. So that's two to three feet. And very solid. He'd never opened it. He'd never tried to cut it open. He didn't want to cut it open, but he claimed that it was moving under its own control at times. And, um, he, um,
He basically told me this elaborate story about how he'd got it from a friend of his who'd literally seen it fall out of some kind of craft that hovered over his property. And I ran the story because I've been talking to people now for some time who've been telling me about sightings of metallic spheres all over the world.
and that there is a phenomenon that multiple witnesses have seen where metallic spheres operating under apparently their own propulsion with no visible means of propulsion are intelligently moving around airplanes, objects in the sky, their video, their photograph. And I've also spoken to people in sensitive areas in your government, in the US government,
who've told me that this is something that needs to be taken seriously. And what's fascinating is in the most recent UAP hearing, people have, again, again, I just find it amazing how lacking in curiosity most of the media are. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of ARO, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office,
somewhat begrudgingly admitted that yes, there are anomalous metallic spheres doing anomalous things moving in anomalous ways that have been seen all over the world that they cannot explain. And a number of them have been photographed or videoed by American military assets, notably in the Middle East and captured on video or photographs. And
It's interesting because since I did that documentary on Channel 7 Australia, my life has not been my own. I have been swamped with people sending me videos, photographs, personal accounts of seeing these metallic spheres. I had one yesterday, a guy sent me an account of he and his girlfriend lying in grass in a field somewhere in I think it was Macedonia.
And they look up and there's this metallic sphere hovering right above their heads and, and, you know, ultimately people say witness evidence isn't worth a job, but we send people to prison on witness evidence. You know, we convict people and give them the death sentence on witness evidence. And when you have, as I now have hundreds of people, if not thousands, actually hundreds of people testifying that they have seen these anomalous metallic spheres doing weird things. Um,
I think it should be investigated and so interestingly begrudgingly the Pentagon's arrow office has admitted it should be investigated as well. And this is the thing that amuses me is that everybody in the mainstream media either ignored or wrote off the most recent UAP hearing.
But you actually had an admission from the head of the Pentagon's UAP investigation office that, yeah, there are anomalous things that we can't explain. We have to admit that these include metallic spheres. Now, one of the things he didn't explain is how did he know they were metallic? Have they recovered them? I mean, I wonder. And so what we've done is in collaboration with Professor Gary Nolan,
Jim Marlin the Texas owner of at least one of these spheres and I know owners of other spheres are hopefully able to collaborate with Professor Nolan and he's getting access to a sophisticated materials analysis laboratory and we're in our own time going to do our own analysis and it'll be interesting to see what results eventuate and we will report on those results if and when we can do so.
And I think frankly, that's what's got to happen here, because I suspect, well, I know that the US government knows a lot more about these metallics fused and it's prepared to let on. I have to be very guarded in what I say, because I have to protect sources. But suffice to say, I think the public will get to hear some very interesting information about those objects in due course.
What's the timeline on that? What's the progress look like so far? Can't comment. Okay. Earlier, you mentioned the legacy program. It's still going on though, but it's called the legacy program. Yeah, it's essentially it's a it's an acknowledgement, I guess that this is a program that goes back to the Second World War, at least that there have been retrievals since allegedly, according to Grush.
Well, the first retrieval he knows about was in 1933, which is allegedly the Magenta Italy Italian UAP craft, which was allegedly returned or recovered by the Americans in 1944 with the assistance of the Vatican and brought back to America. And if that's true, that's what Mr. Grush is alleging.
If that's true, one can only hope that it's investigated and that people get to the bottom of in collaboration with the Vatican. Yes, the Vatican the Vatican interceded to assist in handing the technology over from the vestiges of the Italian government at the end of the fascist Mussolini regime and handing it over to the Americans as the Americans moved into Italy at the end of the Second World War. So that doesn't mean that there's something inherently Christian about this. It just happened to be where the Vatican is like there's something geographical about it.
Do you know, it's funny, I've spent a large part of my career revealing the horrible sort of history of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. So I'm not a fan of the way it's conducted itself with its treatment of children. But one thing I will applaud the Catholic Church on is that it's long had a very progressive attitude towards the notion of a non-human intelligence. And I think 10 years ago, the Vatican astronomer, they do actually have a Vatican observatory in Italy. He spoke publicly about the notion that essentially
Whatever species we are of intelligent being, we are all God's children. And I think the Vatican knows an enormous amount about the phenomenon. And one person I commend you speak to is Diana Walsh-Pasolka, who's written a terrific book called American Cosmic. And she's got a new book coming out that I've been privileged to preview. And it's fascinating.
I have indeed spoken with Diana Posolka. It's a great conversation. Actually, it's one of my favorite conversations on the whole of theories of everything where we talk about the dark side of the phenomenon, especially psychologically, as well as how to cope with it. It's listed in the description. And it's fascinating. And I think the Vatican is well aware of allegations that the planet has been shared with a non-human intelligence for a large part of humanity's existence.
and I'm told that some of the best archives and information historically on this is stored in the Vatican. The other word that stuck out to me was the what the legacy program like the like there's a single one. This to me sounds like this would be a multi department and a multi program program. So why is there just one
I think it's a euphemism that's become quite common inside the program, as it's called. It's called the program. That's the euphemism that people have used to it. And I think those of us who are passing comment on it have referred to it often as the legacy program, because essentially it's been a continuing program that never stopped operating throughout the Cold War. And it continues to this day. One of the
Issues though, and you quite rightly make this point, is that it's now fragmented. I think the allegations of my sources, not just Mr. Grush, are that this program is now administered across different private aerospace companies, notably one of them, of course, is Lockheed Martin. I think those companies should be asked directly whether they have had or have possession of non-human technology.
That at one stage was in the position of the U.S. government. And are they going to be obligating their requirements to respond under the new legislation that's coming up before the Congress? It's going to be very interesting to see what they say, because I think that one of the one of the big issues here is, and I say this as somebody who's trained in intellectual property law, they might rightly think it's their property. Why the hell should they have to account for this to the U.S. government?
If they've spent the money and done the work in the last 60, 70 years on trying to develop this technology, what business is it of the US Defense Department or the US government if they were properly vested this material or if they recovered it themselves? Why should the US government have any right over it? I'm kind of on their side on this. You know, frankly, if Elon Musk develops anti-gravitic propulsion based on a recovered piece of technology,
Why the hell should he have to account for it to the US government? What businesses that have theirs, if they've been so incompetent as to hand over this technology invested into private aerospace, then I'm kind of on side. I'm a big fan of private enterprise and capitalism. I think that the profit motive drives some of the best innovations in technology. If I was a private public area, a private aerospace company that's responsible to my shareholders,
I'd be getting my lawyers briefed and ready for a big fight with the Congress. What business is it of theirs? I'm kind of with them in a way, really. Bottom line is, if Lockheed Martin has a flying saucer hidden in a cupboard somewhere, and if they've spent billions of dollars on trying to develop that technology, why should they be putting up being bullied by US Congress? What business is it of Congress? If some president in the past made the decision to divest
The US government of this technology or to take it out of say the department of energy fifty sixty years ago why would they completely divest themselves the government completely give this technology up and not say hey private industry you have great technology to investigate this technology let's work together. That's a very good question could i one explanation that i heard is that.
There was concerns that the Department of Energy in particular was going to be brought under the control of various regulatory agencies, notably the Government Accounting Office, the GAO. And I'm told that at one stage the GAO was asking some very shrewd questions about monies and expenditure relating to the program and a decision was made to divest that technology from the DOE into private enterprise. And unless proper contracts were drawn up at the time that required
remained the property of the US government. Well, frankly, my friend, if I was a clever IP lawyer, I would be saying, stuff the US government. This is ours. You know, we're one of the world's top aerospace companies. Why should we have to hand this over? I'm kind of sympathetic with them. And I think if they came out publicly and actually said that and said, yeah, we've got this technology, but it's none of your bloody business. Piss off, leave us alone. We know we're spending the money.
We've got the scientists, we're spending the dough. If the US government was stupid enough to go off and fight wars in the Middle East in the last 10, 15, 20 years and not spend money on a Manhattan style project to back engineer alien technology, then it's their fault. I mean, I think we're actually a very interesting point here where the implications of this extraordinary legislation
Where clearly what's going on behind the scenes here is the congress is pissed off. It's upset that it's asked. It's demanded. It's already required under the NDAA laws that people come forward with evidence of UAPs and they know it exists. They know that evidence is there. That's what's driving this legislation.
The reason why Senator Gillibrand is pushing for aerospace companies or private corporations to be forced to reveal whether they've got objects of non-Earth origin or exotic UAP material is because they've got witnesses who've already told them about it. And if I'm, I don't know, let's just say Lockheed Martin, and they've got a flying saucer sitting in a cupboard somewhere, they might think, well, hell, guys,
That one there, we recovered that ourselves from Guatemala a few years ago. Why the hell should we tell you about that? It's none of your business. We're a private company. Free enterprise is what made America great. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. These loopholes characterize the states and perhaps Canada, maybe Australia.
Is this something that's occurring worldwide? Because I don't imagine that these loopholes exist in Russia or in China, and I don't see why it wouldn't leak. You did mention that some, I don't recall exactly what, but some parts of this have leaked. But I don't know if it's related to this. Anyway, what do you say to that? Let's deal with your country. I know for a fact that Canadian scientists are actively involved in working and collaborating with the United States on retrieved non-human technology there.
Let's just see if any of your media now go out and ask questions about it. I don't think they will, because they'll be cowed.
They won't even go into a press conference. One reasonable thing to do would be to go to a press conference and ask the Canadian defense minister with the cameras rolling. Minister, what inquiries have you done as a result of the letter from Larry McGuire, a member of parliament who told you that he is aware of a reverse engineering program with which Canadian scientists have been collaborating through your DRDC for decades with the U.S. government? Is she going to answer that question? She should.
Now let's deal with Australia. I've spoken to very senior people in my government who've told me they know nothing about any Australian involvement in reverse engineering. And I think that's true. I think that there have been individual military personnel, mainly from our special forces, who have collaborated in retrievals. I've spoken to people who've alleged to me that they've been involved in retrieval operations.
I do believe that it's possible that technology has been tested on Australian territory or over our sovereign waters without our knowledge. And I'm investigating that at the moment.
Let's deal with the UK. I think the UK knows a lot more than Canada or Australia. It's been a very active member of the Five Eyes through the Foreign Material Program because there have been retrievals in the United Kingdom and in Europe, I am told. It is alleged to me. I don't know that for sure, but the allegation that has been put to me
and that includes British special forces personnel, is that there have been active operations crash retrievals even within the last few years. This has been an ongoing issue. And people may say, oh, well, how come these things are crashing? If these are such advanced technology, why are they crashing so much? Often they're not crashing. They're just retrieved. We don't know the circumstances in which they came to be where they are.
I'm told it has been alleged to me that on occasion they have been fully functioning technologies recovered with no visible damage to them. Now, under the foreign materials program, as is detailed in the Larry Maguire letter, which is a secret Five Eyes agreement for the recovery
normally of foreign adversary technology like Russia or China, like the latest MIG or the latest rocket system and things like that. It's happening a lot at the moment inside Ukraine. I'm told that through that FMP, the foreign materials program, there have also been very controversial and very secret recoveries of what people believe is non-human technology. But if you're a soldier, a special forces operative, and you're cleared to be involved in a retrieval operation like that,
The level of knowledge that you have is limited to your to your utility. You know, it could very well be they've just been standing there with a rifle, making sure nobody comes on scene while scientists and officials move in and remove whatever it is. So it may very well be they have no direct knowledge themselves as to exactly what it is. And they're open to the accusation that what they're talking about might just be a Russian satellite or a Chinese drone or something like that. This is why this needs to be investigated.
Because one of the things that I am aware of is that there is an intelligence take, there is distribution of Five Eyes intelligence now, and it's become much more routinized than it ever used to be. And within the last few years, there is now intelligence sharing on UAPs within the Five Eyes Alliance. And I've spoken to people in Australia who've told me that they've seen some of this take, very senior people in our intelligence community.
And when I've said to them, should we just cut this claim of collaboration inside the five eyes on alleged retrievals? They've giggled and said, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it past the Americans at all. And one of the phenomena that's quite common here in Australia, one of the things that I've reported on as a journalist reporting on the intelligence community has been it's been a long standing practice for Australia, Canada and New Zealand as kind of
junior partners of the Five Eyes Alliance to do plausibly deniable favors for their big brother allies in the US and the UK. And so during the Cold War, it's now public information that Australians, New Zealanders often collaborated with the Brits or the Americans to bug or to tap foreign embassies or foreign adversary companies, countries, buildings.
and we did plausibly deniable favors for our friends. I'm told also that we've been involved in retrievals of, and quite rightly so, it's a good thing that we've been doing this, retrievals of Chinese and Russian and North Korean technology, you know, we're keeping tabs on our potential enemies. But I'm also told because I've had chats with people who've been involved in these operations that there have been retrievals where what's being retrieved is obviously far more controversial.
And I think the Brits know a lot more about this because they've been more actively involved and there is a high level of collaboration between the UK and the US on this issue. But it's interesting because certainly the parliamentary oversight committees in the United Kingdom that I've engaged with, they're not aware of this. So again, there's an accountability issue here. If British military or intelligence have been involved, I don't think their parliamentary committees know about it.
Frankly, I think they should. I'll give you an example. I did a story in 1994, that's how old I am, about how operatives of our Australian Secret Intelligence Service, our equivalent, if you like, of the CIA, assisted the British government in bugging Kuwaiti government officers after the first Gulf War to procure a
trade advantage to win contracts against which Australia was competing. And the operatives that were involved in that operation told me how they were paid cash by the Brits and told not to tell their Australian masters what they'd been doing, bugging Q80 government officers to help the British win contracts against the Australians.
And there was a Royal Commission of Inquiry, which essentially is a bit like a grand jury investigation, which looked into this issue and the whole issue of plausibly deniable favours by our intelligence community to assist our big brother allies, the UK and the US, was brought to the fore. Another incident that I became aware of when I did the story in 1994 was that when the Chinese government was negotiating with the British about the handover of Hong Kong back to China,
Australian government operatives were involved at the behest of the British SIS in bugging Chinese government officers in Hong Kong so that they could negotiate a strategic advantage in the negotiations with the Chinese. And imagine the consequences for Australia if we'd been caught by the Chinese and doing that kind of high level spying. I mean, the blowback would have been enormous. And so I raised in my story the issue of why we were doing these plausibly deniable favors.
This is the same thing that's been going on with UAPs because Larry Maguire, in his letter to the Canadian Minister of Defense, specifically raises how he's concerned that upcoming public announcements will be coordinated between AUKUS, which could damage Canada's credibility with our allies. And AUKUS, it's not a very well-known agreement, but it's the Australia-UK-US agreement.
And what it is, is essentially a collaboration defense agreement, which is essentially targeting, providing Australia with nuclear submarine technology. It's bringing Australia into the nuclear world. Controversially, a huge controversy in Australia, we're spending $400 billion on nuclear attack submarines, probably the Virginia-class American submarines in the next 20 to 30 years.
I know my prime minister in Australia and my defense minister and the heads of our intelligence services in government do not know about the crash retrieval program if it exists. The Australian crash retrieval or the? No, no, no, no. The US Canadian crash retrieval collaboration. If I was Australia and I'm about to spend nearly half a trillion dollars on weaponry
Which is supposedly the top of the line weaponry in the world. I would expect as a five eyes ally partner to be brought into the loop on the fact that the US is potentially sitting on vastly more superior technology. I would expect that it would be a legitimate question for my government to be asking are we being sold a lemon.
Are we being sold technology that will be superseded within five to ten years if and when the American government finally admits the truth of what this alleged crash retrieval program involves? Alleged technology that is capable of extraordinary energy from the vacuum, extraordinary propulsion systems that are capable of instantaneous velocity, the performance characteristics manifested in the five observables. That's the technology I would want
in preference to a nuclear attack summary. And so this is why this is relevant to agreements like the AUKUS agreement. Are members of the Five Eyes Alliance who have historically been treated and patronized as junior partners, are they being locked out of information and knowledge that ought properly to be being shared with them to assist them in making decisions about their future national security? That's why this matters.
I'm not trying to drive a wedge between the Five Eyes partners, but I have had discussions with people in my government in Australia where I've said, look, I know stuff that Canada is allegedly involved in, and you may not want to ask about it. But I think there is the beginning of a realization now in my government in Australia that they haven't been told the whole story.
I suspect, for example, that there are facilities in Australia that have been used for experimentation with some of this technology by the US government as places like Groom Lake and Area 51 became more and more scrutinized and hot. Vast, empty areas of Australia and our ocean are beautiful places to practice technology.
And in my book, In Plain Sight, I start the book by talking about an extraordinary sighting, multiply corroborated, where a gigantic black triangular craft hovered silently over two policemen and a civilian woman and did performance parameters, performance characteristics far beyond known human technology. And that's a technology that has been seen by multiple witnesses that I've since spoken to.
clearly something was operating over northwest Australia back in the early 90s that has never been properly explained and clearly the Americans knew about it and tried to shut people down from talking about it. And so it's funny and I obviously get frustrated with stories like this one in our national newspaper where the whole issue of
alien conspiracies are mocked and you know there really are references to little green men and that sort of nonsense and it's just kind of belittling ridicule that ignores the fact that there is an abundance of evidence no longer circumstantial to suggest that there is something going on.
The Pentagon has admitted the reality of the phenomena. It has admitted that there is an anomalous phenomena, possibly intelligently controlled, doing things, showing performance parameters that we cannot explain. Multiple hundreds, thousands of witnesses have seen objects doing things that are apparently craft under intelligent control, showing performance parameters that just cannot be explained within known human technology.
There is an intelligence source by the name of David Grush, who has come forward and courageously spoken out for the first time publicly saying that he is aware of a crash retrieval program that has been illegally kept secret from the American public. He's also alleged by the way, bodies and some journalists seem very shy about even discussing that issue because they're worried and confronted that people may find it so ontologically shocking that they don't want to talk about it.
This is real. These allegations are being made. They should be being investigated. That's all David Grush wants about that triangle. Do you think that we have the ability to operate? Forget about reverse engineer. I'll refer you to again, one of the episodes of need to know www dot need to know dot today I
I interviewed a former British special forces soldier called John Chapman. He's a former British para, very highly trained British soldier. He was literally in combat in Ukraine in the very early days of the battle around Kiev in April last year. He was with a group of Navy SEALs, special forces soldiers from all over the world, an international battalion that was fighting behind Russian lines.
And in the interview that he did with me, he and his colleagues described seeing firstly three strange lights appear in the sky, in the night sky, and then all of a sudden a triangular craft winked into existence. And the way he's described it, it appeared to be operating as some kind of surveillance and reconnaissance platform. It silently moved above the battlefield literally as they're getting mortared
They're looking up and they're describing it, they're seeing it, they're absolutely categorical that they saw it. I've corroborated that this was seen. Some kind of triangular surveillance platform was being used on the battlefield, clearly monitoring Russian positions in the very early days of the Kiev offensive by the Russians. I don't know who that was, but something was taking an interest.
And that platform, that triangular object has been seen by multiple witnesses all around the world. Now, I know people love to dismiss all this as a wacky conspiracy theory, and they love to sort of push the idea that this is just a conspiracy theory and it's pushed by crazy people with little green men agendas. That's no longer the case. This is being rationally suggested by sober men and women at a very high level.
the American governments, both in Canada and the US. I've had conversations with people in your government. They privately admit to me that they know something's going on, but they're frightened of asking. It's almost like, well, we kind of assume it's in the national good, so we're not going to push any harder. But I think that's what the people who've been hiding this all these years have been playing on. I think there have periodically been people inside the US government
who have an oversight role, one of them is perhaps Admiral Tom Wilson, the Wilson document, as we've discussed previously, Kurt. And I think people have stumbled across the issue from time to time. And I think they've bought the line that this is a national security imperative and that they shouldn't push any harder. But I'm sorry, it's clear to me now from talking to the sources that I've spoken to, and this is clearly what the Congress is finding out as well.
that there have been illegalities, if not criminal breaches of the law. One of the allegations that David Grush made to me in my interview is that people have been murdered, he suspects, to protect this secret. That is one hell of an allegation. And at some stage, he's going to have to put up the evidence to prove that allegation. He's obviously spoken to people on the inside in the program who've told him this.
My understanding is that he has testified about this in secret to the Congress. My understanding is that he's also come forward to the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security about this. Now, what's interesting is, is the Congress going to do its job and ask the questions that need to be asked to investigate that? Is there the political will at both congressional and senatorial level to actually push in a public way for this to be made public?
I'm not sure that it is. We live in such dangerous times. We've teetered in the last 24, 48 hours on the edge of a horrible confrontation in Russia that could have resulted in civil war in Russia. Either way, even though Putin's a thug, it would have been a very bad solution to have open warfare on Russian national territory.
We're looking at the moment of at the likelihood that there's going to be an intervention if it can't be negotiated to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon before the end of this year. I don't see how that can be avoided. Military conflict will have to happen unless a negotiated settlement can occur. There is no way Israel or the US are going to allow any kind of nuclear bomb to be developed by Iran.
You've got the continuing nut job in North Korea with his wacky ICBM trials, where he's trying to demonstrate a capacity to launch ICBMs at the continental United States. And then you've got China, you've got the ever present risk of China. And, you know, I'm being told routinely by officials in my government and in the US government that it's only a matter of time before we're at war with China. 18 to 24 months is the time scale that I'm being told.
God forbid, why in hell's name do we think that we can win a war with China? I do not know. But in the context of all of this, do you think the Congress is going to devote a lot of time and resources and energy to pushing for a hugely embarrassing expose to be revealed of criminal corruption inside the military and intelligence establishment?
Concealing an alleged crash retrieval and reverse engineering program involving retrieved non-human technology for the last 80 years? I don't think so. In other words, as important as we find it, we're like, this is the most important subject. The government's like, you don't know how close to annihilation we are from other sources. It's not the most. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking all the time to people in
the US government who genuinely want this issue out. But in the scheme of things, they're more focused quite legitimately on making sure that Ukraine has enough has artillery shells to be able to take out the command structure of the Russian government. I mean, I don't think UAPs are as big a priority as they should be. And that's the tragedy because as David Grush admitted to me in his interview,
Actually, I don't think a lot of this is in the so far broadcast interview, but he's deeply skeptical about the reasons why we went for war in Iraq and Afghanistan. A lot of good men and women have died. They've given their lives for a conflict in the Middle East that was of dubious provenance. Why? I mean, what benefit was derived from fighting that war?
Imagine if the trillions of dollars that were expended on the Middle Eastern conflict had instead been expended on a Manhattan style project where there was collaborative science between men and women in science from all over the world to develop energy technologies and propulsion systems that could revolutionize human civilization. That's what people are talking about. Now, I don't know for sure that that technology exists because I haven't seen it
But I have spoken to people who've told me that it does exist. I have spoken to people who've urged me to push for the public disclosure of the existence of this technology. And that's one of the reasons why David Grush has come forward. He's the first of many, but those other witnesses are watching on and they're seeing how David Grush gets treated. If he's treated badly, if he's treated, if he's treated peremptorily and dismissed, then the world doesn't deserve to know, frankly.
And I mean, I appeal to your, I mean, one of the things I love about your show, Kurt, is you get a phenomenally well-informed audience. You have highly intelligent people, mainly from science, but also thought leaders who are listening to your show. And they understand that you give people like me the time to explain. And I don't know if I can begin to convey the depth of emotion and frustration that good science oriented people feel.
that they can't talk publicly about what they know that's being concealed right now. Maybe they're lying to me. Maybe the many people that I've spoken to have all contrived to lie to me. Maybe it's just a massive disinformation program. And maybe the whole US Congress has been misled to the extent that they now believe credulously that there might be things of non-Earth origin held within private aerospace. I suspect there is.
And imagine the consequences for the world if that's true. Imagine if, for example, there is a technological discovery to be made that could make fossil fuels redundant overnight. If that exists. And if these technologies exist, as they appear to do, this is the frightening thing about this is this dissonance between what we know
The fact that this technology clearly exists, even Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of Arrow, is begrudgingly admitting that these metallic spheres are anomalous and that he cannot explain them and there's no explanation for how they're manipulating themselves under their own control when they've got no visible means of propulsion. You've got that. Something is doing things we cannot explain. Right. And yet there is this credulous media acceptance
The continuing disinformation program that is run now for 60 to 70 years that we should just accept the glib assertions of the Pentagon that arrow has no credible evidence to support evidence of ET. Well, for one arrow wouldn't know because it's not set up to do that job. It's not set up to proactively investigate. If you want to know this story, if you want to get to the truth, you have to do what Dave crushed is.
He kicked doors in, he knocked on doors, he tracked down people, he did proactive investigation. That's why what he did is different. And that's why if we're talking about intelligence sources that are being given credibility by the mainstream media,
Don't give credibility to the allegations of an anonymous source like Curveball who any reasonable investigator back in 2003 could have found was a put up by the INC. Did they find out who Curveball was by the way? Yeah, they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a story that really hasn't been told. I mean, I'm fascinated by this story because like a lot of Australian journalists, I was briefed by our intelligence community.
about how we should accept the assurances of the American government that this source was impeccable and that they were providing red hot intelligence from right within the WMD program within Saddam Hussein's government and military.
It turned out it was a lie. It was a fabrication pushed by Ahmed Chalabi in the Iraqi National Congress to push America to go to war in Iraq. And essentially what it did, you know who had benefited? The Iranians. And that's why essentially Iraq is now a proxy state of Iran.
Nobody's thought about this. OK, I don't know much about the media and Ross, you were at least steeped in it. So why isn't it that when you get some report from the government, when you're telling it to people, to the public, you don't say that this is the case, rather you say this comes from the government. By the way, the government has been truthful in the past, some not so truthful. So take it with a grain of salt. Here's what they say.
Okay, so when the government puts up a press release as Susan Goff from the Pentagon has said that Arrow has no credible evidence of ET or whatever it is she said, why does the media not do the analysis that I'm suggesting it should be doing, which is, okay, she spoke there for Arrow, but what about the Pentagon? What about the entire intelligence community? What about Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence?
Mr. Grush makes the direct allegation in my interview that he personally provided a copy of his complaint to the DNI, to Avril Haines.
Why has nobody gone to her and said, oh, DNI, by the way, there's a guy called Dave Grush. He's made allegations to the inspectors general and also to two of the main oversight committees for the intelligence community in Congress. He's alleging there are aliens. There's a non-human intelligence. He's alleging you've recovered non-human technology and bodies. He's alleging that people have been murdered to cover up this secret. Now,
Okay, it's a big ontological shock to ask that question. And if you're a journalist and you've got the DNI Avril Haines in front of you, you take a big gulp before you ask. But by golly, you should be asking the question. And when Corrine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary, was asked the same question the other day, and she ducked past and said, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that.
Why did the press gallery, the White House press corps, just let her get away with that? Why did not one journalist in the room not stand up and say, no, excuse me, we need to know. We're the White House press corps. Our job is to find out and report on what the president knows. Has the president sought a briefing on Mr. Grush's allegations? What is the president's response to Mr. Grush's allegations?
Was Jake Sullivan at a secret meeting in the Congress where some of these issues regarding crash retrievals were discussed? Has the national security advisor provided a report to the president on this issue? That's the sort of investigative journalism that needs to be happening here. And I think what the American public, what the world needs to be asking is why those questions aren't being asked.
This isn't some wacky conspiracy theory. We're way beyond that now. As I said at the beginning of this conversation two hours ago, we're now over three weeks into David Grush's allegations and the Pentagon, the intelligence community, nobody has laid a glove on his credibility. Everybody, Colonel Carnell,
Jonathan Gray, the guy who uses the pseudonym from Nasik and Christopher Mellon, three independent witnesses have verified to his credibility on the issue of crash retrievals and reverse engineering. Why, in the face of that multiple corroboration, has no one in the US national media then followed it up and gone, you know what, that is a good question. Why can't the president be asked this? Why can't the director of national intelligence be asked these questions?
Since when did the US national media, especially in light of the fact that they were lied to and deceived at the time of the last Gulf War with false source intelligence, why can't they now go back and ask the White House the truth of these claims? That's the only way that this will ever change when the mainstream media picks up the ball and runs with it. And frankly, I'm not confident they will.
I've called the New York Times and the Washington Post gutless cowards for not running with this and they are, they are gutless cowards and it's because frankly they don't want to offend their sources.
because in defense intelligence. It's not because they think that the public is going to say, hey, I can't believe you're taking this seriously. And then they'll feel like they'll get ridiculed. But is that is that really the responsibility of the media? Should the media really be looking at whether or not the public's going to believe them or not? It's not the media's role. The media's role is without fear or favor to investigate allegations, to test the evidence and to put the claims to the people in authority.
Even now, we're getting on towards a month since David Grush made his allegations and went public. There has been no attempt by the Washington Post, the New York Times, the LA Times, the Chicago Sun Times, the Boston Globe. None of those great newspapers of the United States have sought to put these allegations to the people in power. I just think the world needs to ask why. What's going on behind the scenes? Why are they so frightened of asking the question?
Why is it that when the issue was raised in the White House press room and the White House press secretary was asked, you know, what's the story about these claims about aliens? Why is it that the White House press secretary was allowed to get away with just passing the issue and flicking it across to the Pentagon? Why is that satisfactory? I don't understand.
And the media that I've grown up with, the kind of... It could also just be that they're not as informed as you to know, hey, Aero isn't supposed to be the place that has the knowledge of this. No, Kurt, the problem is that much of the mainstream media is working towards an operant prejudice. They're not operating it objectively. And it's sad. They're operating according to the prejudices that are dictated to them by the sources they speak to.
And, you know, I've sat around the lunch tables and the quiet little chats over a glass of wine with intelligence officials. I know how it works. They delicately put down poison for propositions. And it's made very clear that if you're going in that direction, you're going the wrong way. Can you give me an example? Oh, well, you know, at the time of the last Gulf War, if people had actually investigated whether or not there was any truth to the allegations that Iraq was involved in
making weapons of mass destruction. I mean there was evidence for example that one of the things that was relied upon was claims that an Australian company was involved unknowingly in the production of aluminium tubing that it was suspected was being made to such a high level that it was capable of being used in a centrifuge process to process uranium.
And it turned out there were real doubts about that evidence and the people who were in the company involved were genuinely shocked that this allegation was made. And I was one of the journals that was basically being approached and asked to investigate that issue. But essentially the ability for us to investigate that was drowned out by the assertion from the US intelligence community that they had rock solid intelligence.
I mean, that's what I'm saying, is that if journalists had gone and investigated the aluminium tubes allegations as they sought to do, they would not get invited to the next press briefing.
For the defense department, you know, you'd get cut off the drip. And one of the worst things that can happen for a newspaper that's competing with stories with other newspapers or a TV station for that matter is you don't get invited to be, say, the embedded correspondent with, I don't know, General Schwarzkopf or whoever the commanding general is. You don't get invited inside the tent. And so one of the issues for media organizations is access. You only get these stories if you have access.
Unfortunately, I think especially in the last 20 or so years since 9-11, one of the other stories, for example, that I find fascinating because I've done a lot of stories on privacy and surveillance is the revelation of illegal wiretapping by the National Security Agency. That was a story that a lot of us knew about that was widely circulating.
And the media were terrified of touching it. And there were attempts to shut the media down through the FISA legislation. There was an attempt to meddle with the editorial direction of news departments. There were really strong heavies put on the media in the US to not report that story. It's been well told. I mean, I can't name off the top of my head the correspondents who were responsible for eventually breaking the story.
But one of the major newspapers eventually courageously revealed the story and indeed went on to win the Pulitzer. But the the simple fact is that there was a real pushback that you know you can't report this because to do this would be to compromise national security you know to reveal extensive illegal illegal wiretapping is to compromise national security and it was rubbish.
Essentially what had happened was there was an over misinterpretation of the intelligence laws that wrongly, in the opinion of the intelligence bosses, gave them the power to do the warrantless tapping that they were doing. And the only reason that that was stopped and brought under proper regulation was because there was media exposé of it happening. And sadly, I think that's what's going to have to happen here. There's going to have to be media exposé eventually of
I suspect a leak from Congress. I think that's what will probably happen at some stage. Somebody from the gang of eight or somebody from one of the congressional committees will eventually not be able to control themselves and reveal, yeah, actually, you know what? Grush told the truth. But until then, I think the media is going to be a willing lick spittle in continuing the coverup. I think it's convinced itself that it's all bullshit and they've never devoted the resources to properly investigate it.
And that's the tragedy. The tragedy is that there is a default ridicule and taboo that is attached to the subject of UAPs. You know, if you even mention to an editor that you want to do a UFO story, this is kind of ironic grin that comes across their face. And it's a default stigma. And frankly, in the face of the enormous amount of evidence, most notably the Senate Intelligence Bill that refers to objects of non-Earth origin,
Earlier I asked about if the Americans or anyone has the ability to control the craft, forget about reverse engineering. I didn't hear an answer. Oh, well, that's speculation. I don't know for sure. I mean,
On one analysis, it's claimed that the US has not been able to reverse engineer much at all successfully. And that's the line that I think on his own admission, Dr. Eric Davis, who's investigated the crash retrieval program, passed on to Alejandro Rojas in interviews that he did about four or five years ago. I think he claimed, for example, that it had been so unsuccessful that back in 1989, the program was actually shut down for a while or put on hold.
Other people tell me that there's been quite notable successes. And I think the reason for the dissonance, the reason for the disagreement about what has actually happened is that we may in fact be talking about, like we use the term, the legacy program. But I think part of the problem is in my line of work, we have a saying, always assume a screw up before a conspiracy. And I'm inclined to believe there's been a screw up here.
I suspect, I don't know for sure, I suspect that from the early 50s onwards, the decision was made that the analysis of these objects, these craft was best done by private enterprise oriented companies, big aerospace companies that had the resources and the technical know-how to do the work. This is that divesting that you're referring to earlier. They divested these objects, these craft into their control.
And I suspect there's been a screw up. I suspect the US government didn't write contracts. They didn't want to put anything in writing. I don't think they gave themselves any IP, any intellectual property control over that material. And I think this is part of the problem. This is why this legislation is now necessary, because the Congress has revealed from witnesses that it's quite likely that the military has no idea what has been
done or achieved inside private aerospace. I've had allegations that I have not been able to confirm put to me that certain companies, notably British Aerospace, have actually made notable achievements in developing this technology. But I haven't been able to verify that because of course they're private aerospace companies. They have a formidable ability to use private military and intelligence contractors to cover their trail.
They're not accountable to government or government agencies. There's no ability to scrutinize them unless you have people on the inside speaking out, which I have, but I'm unfortunately not able to talk about them in much detail because they're too terrified. But the simple fact is I think it's possible that there are programs ongoing in private aerospace that are actually not within the knowledge of many of the people in the military intelligence community who supposedly have carriage of this.
I suspect it's a screw up. I suspect that what happened was over the years, it became formalized that we would entrust these private aerospace companies to do the work. Nobody ever thought, gee, who owns this technology? Gee, shouldn't we be monitoring them and letting Congress know so that we can report to Congress the success of any efforts to develop this technology? I don't think that happened. That's why
Always assume a screw up before a conspiracy. That's my mantra. And I think if you assume a screw up before a conspiracy, that's what's happened here. I don't think these private aerospace companies think they've done anything wrong. Yeah, sure. I suspect people probably have been killed and hurt and intimidated and threatened along the way to cover this up. Private enterprise is capable of doing terrible things. So is government. But
I don't know that government necessarily knows about this. And this is why Congress is now trying to get to the truth. And so to those in the mainstream media who have peremptorily dismissed this all these years and gone, oh, there's nothing in this. My sources and intelligence are telling me there's nothing in this. Just laugh about it. Just ignore it. When it comes up in press conferences, titter slightly and follow along with everyone else and just laugh about it.
Some of these journals just need to grow a spine and start asking hard questions. And I think sooner or later, what's it called? The truth embargo will break. It's a great term. I like it. It's a good name. The truth embargo. I think there really is. I think there's a knowing reluctance to ask the question. And I think the reason why is because at the bottom of it, it's a stuffer up.
More often than not, it's not a bunch of gatekeepers actively with full knowledge of the cover up, trying to cover it up. More often than not, it's a bunch of two bit generals and flunky intelligence officials who frankly realize belatedly that they've presided over a very shambolic assigning of technology into private aerospace. And they're terrified about the consequences for the US if it comes out that the US actually doesn't own this technology.
You know, we've probably devoted scientists and material resources to help investigate it for years, but there's never been a lawyer who's actually sat down and gone. So guys, who actually owns this stuff? And that's where we're at now. That's the unloading of the craft of the tech. But what about the bodies? Did they also unload that? And then who would they give that to? Good question. Don't you think Congress should be asking that question?
And don't you think if somebody of the reputation and caliber and undoubted reputation of David Grush comes forward and makes an allegation like that, why is it legitimate for even journalists investigating this story to not even mention the bodies? You know, some of my colleagues have said that we shouldn't talk about bodies. Why? I mean, if these things were piloted, that means somebody was piloting them.
What happened to those entities, to those beings, if they exist? It could be autopilot though. It could be. But Mr. Grush is alleging that there have been bodies recovered. Now, he said that under oath. So has he lied to the inspectors general? Has he lied to the Congress? The consequences for him are enormous if he's lied. Why would he lie like that?
Think about it. I mean, seriously, you've got a very courageous, I happen to think David Grush is one of the most courageous whistleblowers to come forward in recent American history. It's like, it's as if deep throat had gone public. You know, at the time he, we now know he was the, he was the deputy director of the FBI, but it's as if deep throat had gone public and said, I'm alleging that the president has been involved in a criminal conspiracy.
And now you've got the situation where are we to assume that the Washington Post and the New York Times journalists who would have gone, let's just ignore him. He's only he's only the deputy director of the FBI, you know, deep throats. It's my understanding about Gresham, the alien bodies that he never saw them. He's saying that I was told about them or that I saw a picture of him. So he could say under oath that I believe it to be the case that there's only he has he has said what he has said.
What he has said to me is I have a strong suspicion that people have been hurt or murdered. Well, that's the answer that he gave in implicit acknowledgement of the question that I put to him. And I think that should be investigated, don't you? What are we frightened of? If it's not true, it's not true and send Dave Grush to jail for the next 20 years for lying under oath. But why
Don't you see the dissonance between what he's saying publicly and exposing the risks to himself and people in mainstream media who call themselves journalists and more importantly the policy leaders in Congress, the politicians, they've all run like little chickens from these allegations. Nobody very rarely has anybody spoken out. Very few congressmen or women or
Senators have actually spoken out publicly on this issue. Larry McGuire is so that's Canadian is an MP. Larry McGuire hasn't spoken beyond much but what he said in his letter. Why has nobody put him up on national TV and said Mr. McGuire let's be clear is what you are saying based on stuff you've got from reading a book or have you got more solid evidence that you've acquired because of your own investigations and I suspect it's the latter I'm told it's the latter.
Why are nobody asking those questions? Don't you see? I mean, this is the fundamental problem is there is a willful failure by media, investigative researchers, politicians to ask the question, why? Why is there that willful failure?
So Ross about the leaked that you said that there are some leaked videos or leaked evidence or I'm so sorry could I'm not sure what you're referring to the can you be more specific? Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. In the beginning, when we were talking about a complaint is like not that many people from the government come out and there's not that much evidence that's leaked from the government from something that's as large as this. Okay. Okay. I mean, historically, during the course of
What Mr. Grush alleges has been a continuing disinformation operation on UAPs. There are people who have come forward and I know interestingly enough Stephen Greer did his disclosure project thing the other day at the National Press Club. How do you feel about that? Well, it's interesting.
I was inclined because I don't have a very high opinion of Mr Greer, to be honest. I think on occasion he has misrepresented his communications with government officials and made them sound like briefings. For example, he's claimed to have briefed a former CIA director and I've engaged with people who've told me the full story and I don't believe he did a briefing of a CIA director at all.
I don't know why he does this because there are people in the Congress who've told me that some of the witnesses that Stephen Greer has provided to the Congress in secret who've come forward with evidence about the program have indeed been highly credible witnesses and they've been taken very, very seriously indeed. I just wish there was more
Quality control with what Mr. Greer says as he comes through with his claims. I don't want to buy a fight with Stephen Greer, but I think on occasion he has either inadvertently or otherwise misrepresented the way in which he's engaged with government. But I do think that separately from Mr. Greer, they have periodically publicly, and I'm not going to list them all here because then people will realize who I'm talking about.
But they have people periodically bobbed up who have given evidence of their involvement in alleged crash retrieval operations, for example. And there's never really been, if you look at those cases, a satisfactory resolution of whether they're telling the truth or not, because they're clearly people with security clearances. They've clearly worked in the military units that they say they've worked in.
And there's never a resolution of whether or not they're telling the truth or not. Because of course, the only arbiter that can actually adjudicate whether they're telling the truth or not is the Defense Department, which if what Mr. Grush is alleging is true, there are individuals within the Defense Department who have no interest at all in letting this public information out. There's no interest at all in publicizing this information. So that's my problem is that, yes, periodically through history,
I mean, if you go right back to the days of the first director of the CIA, Roscoe Hillencotter, Roscoe Hillencotter came out publicly and set up his own UFO investigation organization because he was convinced there was a cover up the head of the CIA. You know, people have forgotten their history in America. They've been
There's a lovely guy on Twitter, Richard Gildrick, and he's been doing trawling of old media reports and going right back to the forties and the fifties. There were frequent allegations of recovered flying saucers that featured in the media with first person witnesses.
Very little active work was done to investigate those because of course by that stage the taboo had been introduced. Media were being taught to ridicule it and the public was being taught that you know if there was anything real there it was national security and not to be talked about and people were shut down. I think the evidence is overwhelming that witnesses have been intimidated that they've been threatened and indeed if Mr Grush is telling the truth that witnesses have been killed. I mean that's a horrendous allegation
Again, why shouldn't that be being properly investigated? He's called their bluff. I mean, think about it. As a journalist, what do you do when the government's like, I can't tell you it's for reasons of national security? Like, what do you do? What do you say to that? Well, privately, I say, well, why? I mean, seriously, why would the fact that somebody's allegedly been murdered to protect a secret be a national security secret?
Can they not just say the reasons for that are also secrets? I don't know how it works. Well, I mean, do we glibly accept that? I mean, I guess I'd be asking and I have done on occasion. You know, I've asked for the reasons why something is classified and often I've accepted the reasons why it's classified. It's a matter of negotiation and trust often. But this is the problem is that a lot of media
Lively accept what's told to them by a security official. I'll look, you know, this is classified. Can't talk about it. Can't talk about it. But, you know, if this is a government program and if it is a high national security program, there is a possibility that murdering people may be legal under the intelligence laws of the day. I mean, spies are allowed to kill, you know, in the public interest. We've killed people through our intelligence services to protect national security interests.
Have people been killed? Was it legal? Don't know. But it should be investigated. People don't understand that, you know, if there is indeed this incredible, awesome technology that is being secreted by the US government, if that's true, I'm not justifying this, but I would certainly as a security official be trying to protect that secret and to stop the Russians and the Chinese from getting access to it. Are you afraid for your life?
No, no, not all. I mean, I accept that I'm probably under surveillance. I know that I am at times. But you haven't been told, hey, stop talking about it or some men in black or some other. No, no, no. And I think they know I would go public if they did. I mean, the moment any threat like that emerged, I'd make my damn just to make sure the world knew about it. So no intimidation, no harassment.
No, but the witnesses that I'm talking to have been intimidated. They have been harassed and they've been told on some occasions that they would be murdered if they spoke out about it. I imagine Grash is afraid. Probably he feels good that he feels like he's doing the right thing. I don't know. I don't know how that works. Neither do I. Neither do I, my friend. Yeah.
Okay, to wrap up, you've been with us for quite some time. There's been talk from Leslie Kane and John Ramirez that something's occurring at the late 2020s, 2027, 2029. I don't know. I just know that these years have been set out like some significant event is going to happen. What do you know about that? Look, there are people who have suggested to me that there are
Apocalyptic events like catastrophic, one of the ones I heard at one stage was the reversal of the poles, and I don't know why that would cause any calamitous geological changes, but it was suggested to me that there might be a calamitous movement of the Earth's crust. I was referred to the so-called Adam and Eve story that's apparently in part in a redacted form in the CIA library.
But 2027 was mentioned at one time. I've heard other dates in the 30s. I don't know. I've got no idea. I have no leads that make me feel strongly that this is true. I think it's speculative. I just don't know. You'd have to ask Leslie or John Ramirez. And on John, look, to be honest, I've spoken to John.
It's never entirely clear to me how much of what John is talking about is sourced to his past role as a GS-14 or GS-15 in the CIA, a senior public official, and how much of what he's doing is speculating at almost like a hobby post job. I mean, I think I'd like to see John pinned down more. I've actually asked him for an interview and he declined and
said that he was going back into working in the top secret role somewhere else. And I've been amused to see that he's subsequently gone on and spoken to other people. And the offer is still there for John to speak to me because John, if you're watching, go on to know. I would I would like to talk to him on need to know because I'd like to clarify with him whether what he's talking about is derived from his CIA experience or whether it's derived from
For your NewsNation story with David Grush, how do you feel it went and what would you do differently? I'm happy we got the story out there and I admire and respect NewsNation for having the courage and the decisiveness to actually run the story because
It was line ball, frankly, for any US TV network to make the decision to run the story and they're not a top string TV network. They're a new aspiring news network.
Um, and I think it's done them no end of good. They've had a massive increase in their ratings as a result of the story. Oh yes. Okay. I thought you're saying it's done them no good. Okay. No, no, no, no. It's done them a world of good. Um, they're really happy that they've done the story and they're now aware that UAPs are a story that people are interested in. And this is the thing that I find fascinating is that there's a wisdom of the crowd here that
The media executives in mainstream media, they pompously dictate what you and I get to read, and they assign the op-ed writers to write the nonsense, ridiculing articles that belittle the subject of UAPs. There's that mantra, that trope that runs through how mainstream media organizations traditionally deal with the subject of UAPs.
But what I'm fascinated by as a journal that's worked in that area is how social media programs like yours are superseding the role that used to be played by mainstream media. I mean, you've given me here over two and a half hours to talk expensively, but I'm grateful for it because I think the public need and want long form analysis of the UAP issue.
And NewsNation did that. They created an hour of prime time TV. They've got the full interview with Dave Grush, which I think runs about three and a half hours. I'd probably edit it down to a tighter two hours. I'd like to run the fuller interview so that people can see the full extensive questions and answers that I put to Dave. And it would be my hope that in some format we can run that at some stage. Yeah, what hold that back?
Good question. You'd have to ask News Nation. I'm hoping to be able to run it or a version of a Dave Grush interview on Need to Know.today at some stage, if they're not going to, because I do think there's more material that ought properly to be poured into the public domain. And I think also people want to see Grush being pressed in the way that I did press him in the interview. I think in the News Nation story,
I did a fantastic job really professional job really proud to have been working with them and i hope i can continue to work with them in the future. The one thing i would have loved to have seen more of is the competitive interviewing and pressing of mr grush that we showed in the way that we challenged him during the interview.
I think people would understand more about why I find Mr. Grush a highly credible witness if they could see the question and answer and analysis that we do in the course of the interview. And that's always a frustration with TV because network TV always wants to put things into bite-sized chunks that fit around the advertisements because ultimately all news is is the stuff you wrap around advertisements. It's all about selling
selling cornflakes. But the simple fact is I think the audience wants more and I'm aspiring and hoping to be able to provide them in some format with more. What a lot of people don't realize, Kurt, is I laughed just recently because somebody with malign intent created a Wikipedia entry for me where they said that Kultart
is making the claims that he's making in order to join the, quote, lucrative UAP lecture circuit with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. And it's hilarious because I have never earned a cent from any UAP lecture. And I really, as you know, I'm not being paid for this interview with you or I've given you nearly three hours of my time. And frankly, I don't expect to be. And the work that I do is largely unpaid.
And I do this work in conjunction with an occasional day job that I do as an investigative reporter for Australian network television. And it's a hard gig. They don't care that you've had some choice words about the mainstream media?
I think they share my view. I mean, to be honest with you, I think most people in mainstream media are depressed about the way mainstream media is going. It's failing its audiences, dumbing down. It's frightened of long form analysis. And the irony is, as the Dave Grush interview showed, when you give people long form analysis, they love it.
I will give you some questions to ask him about some of the physics claims he had.
happy to do
You can imagine 4 and 5D space where what we experience is linear time ends up being a physical dimension in higher dimensional space where if you were living there you could translate across what we perceive as a linear flow. So there is a possibility that, and this is a theory here, I'm not saying this is 100% the case, but
I don't mean to pick apart, it just stands out. So he said, and I'm quoting, It's a well established, at least mathematically and based on empirical observation and analysis, that there are likely physical additional spatial dimensions. And you can imagine on 4 or 5D space, where what we experience as linear time ends up being a physical dimension for higher dimensional space.
If we were living there, you could translate across what we perceive as a linear flow. And this is a theory here. I'm not saying this is 100% the case. Okay, so what's interesting? Firstly, it goes from this is a well established to then this is most likely to then this is a possibility to then this is a theory to then I'm not saying this is the case. And then secondly, event says it's well established mathematically. I don't think it's established mathematically or empirically that there are other physical dimensions. Also, it doesn't have anything to do with quantum mechanics. It's also false to say that
It's from a different dimension because we're a part of the same dimension. It's just a different value within that same dimension. Your time isn't a term used in physics unless dealing with computational complexity like calculating. That's why you should see the interview because I was pushing him at that point. I was basically saying, well, what are you talking about? Where are these aliens from? And he goes, they're not aliens. They're a non-human intelligence. And
And one of the things we talk about is we go into whether they've lived here on this planet all these years, and we get into the issue of whether they're actually on Earth-based intelligence, so they're not extraterrestrial at all, they're intra-terrestrial. And then
Okay. Now, thank you so much. My only question is like, I know that you spent so long with me and
I think this is the first podcast that you've done since that story. Well, it's a thank you and why like what do I do to deserve this? It's an honor for me.
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Look, I'm not pissing in your pocket here, Kurt, when I say that I love your show because you let people talk and you have an understanding of science because of your training in physics and you ask good questions. You've put me on the spot at times where you've asked me to justify what I've said. I like being put on the spot. It's fun. It's what journalists should do.
The irony is it's a show like yours that's doing the job that major newspapers and television in mainstream should be doing. What's happening at the moment is we're seeing a shift
My daughters, God bless them, they don't watch TV news. My wife and I watch the six o'clock news every night, the TV news, and we like to see the network news, you know, and we know the news anchor, and we read the newspaper, and we're religious about following the news every day. But I think we're the last generation that are going to do that. One of my daughters told me she gets most of her news from TikTok, Instagram. I mean, I've had to learn.
Robbie Williams, of all people, followed me on Instagram the other day and recommended me to his audience. And my daughter, who's a social media marketer, basically came to me and said, dad, Robbie Williams followed you. And I went, what does that mean? Sorry. And she went, it's huge. You know, you should use Instagram more. And I went, what's Instagram? You know, honestly, truly, I created an Instagram account years ago to basically monitor
Pictures of dogs that my wife sends me, but I have to admit, I've never really used it for news dissemination. And what fascinates me is that there's a younger generation that is impatient with mainstream media. They don't care about it anymore. They don't watch the news. They don't listen to network television or radio. And those news organizations are losing their audience. Like when I first started in network television, Australia is only a country of
27 million people but one of the biggest stories I ever did was a corruption exposure and I think we got nearly three million views which was just massive huge chunk of the national audience and these days a really good rating is 500 000 views in network television and the reason why I think is because they're not doing the sort of stories that you and I are interested in
the kind of long form discursive analysis that you do. It's not for any coincidence that shows like yours are doing really well and drawing millions of views. It's because people are impatient with old style legacy media. All right, Ross, get some coffee. You go and have a good night's sleep, Kurt. I've kept you up way past your bedtime, man. Yeah, man. I never do a podcast this late, but for you, I'll wake up at 1 a.m. Take care, man.
After this podcast over text, I asked Ross about the Indian situation with regard to UAPs, as this whole topic seems to be US-focused. Here's what Ross said, and I won't even attempt to do his accent. Hi Kurt, I've spoken to Indian and Pakistani officials and scientists, but they've confined what they've told me to admissions that they have witnessed craft and anomalous objects operating quote unquote intelligently
over known nuclear facilities, mainly weapons repositories. No one has indicated any willingness or government intention for disclosure, quote unquote, per se. But they're very open and willing to share. I think India is a verdant pasture for investigation. No one's funding such research. That's the simple issue.
Okay thank you for watching this two maybe even three hour podcast with ross coldheart the time just flies by especially with ross and hopefully you enjoyed it i think you must have given that you've watched all the way till this point or perhaps you just skipped through because you love to see my face and who could blame you.
There are just about seven quick announcements. Number one, you should know about the previous conversation with Ross on this channel. The link is in the description. Like I said before, in the intro, it's our most viewed podcast. In fact, it has almost two million hits. Number two, you should know about the UFO playlist. So we've spoken to Les Stroud, Avi Loeb, Kevin Knuth, Salvatore Pius, Jacques Vallee, Jeremy Korbel, Lou Elisando three times, Jeremy Korbel twice, Richard Dolan twice, actually, with the Tonanza.
which is an 8-hour special. Thirdly, you should know that there's a video on the controversial history of quantum gravity. Most people don't know, but quantum gravity owes its development while general relativity, the renaissance of it,
always its development to anti gravity and interest in anti gravity with ufos as well by two private investors.
Agnubansen and Roger Babson. It's a dark secret that most people don't know about, including many in the physics community. And so there's this 30 minute documentary on that subject. Fourthly, there's a moderately disputatious conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's either out now or it's about to be out in a couple of days with Neil and myself. Check it out. It's in the description. We talk about UFOs, AI, as well as the limitations of science or in Neil's eyes, the unlimitations of science. Fifthly,
There's an iTunes version of this podcast, a Spotify version. Basically any audio platform that you listen to podcasts from, there's going to be theories of everything. You just search it in case you want to re-listen. Many people, including myself, I learn the most when I re-watch or re-listen.
And if you want to, then please re-listen on those places. Sixthly, there's now Toe merch. Theories of everything merch. There's only three weeks left as of this date. The end of June right now, 2023. This will end in the middle of July. We're closing it down. Some of the references. You can get to it by going to tinyurl.com slash Toe merch. Some of the references, you have to be a hardcore Toe listener to understand, like, dystocia. I agree with how you're agreeing with me. That one comes from John Vervecky.
Thrust your toe. Trust your toe. Getting wet with Kurt. Don't talk to me or I'll bring up Hegel. True nobility is being coordinate free. That one comes from the crash course on physics that I had. It's a two hour crash course on all of theoretical physics, like as best as I could compress it.
Then there's a toe hat. There's, I say, face space inorganically in everyday conversation. That one is something that I noticed plenty of people do. It's babbling all the way down. I have a toe fetish. Okay. I'm just a gym rat for toes. Yeah, that's something that I say because that's all I do is study for toes. I'm just a gym rat for toes. Got Abbie Genesis. The voices are back. Excellent. That one comes from Gary Nolan himself. So visit tinyurl.com slash toe merch and pick up your toe merch, any of the merch that you want. You also twinly support the podcast.
Browse it, see if there's something that interests you. Seventhly, and lastly, there's the blacktoevault.com, the blacktoevault.com, which is an AI tool. Technically, it's an LLM, which was developed with the help of Dan Van Zandt, Daniel Van Zandt, and John Greenwald to query John's FOIA request database. You can visit the blacktoevault.com, but what I recommend you do instead is visit the link in the description, which is a few minutes long clip about the behind the scenes of the development of this tool.
This will help you understand what it is and where it's going, what features will be added as this is just a first step. All right, that gets all of the announcements out of the way. Thank you so much. The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked on that like button now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people.
You should also know that there's a remarkably active discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate tolls, disagree respectfully about theories, and build as a community our own tolls. Links to both are in the description. Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm.
which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well. Last but not least, you should know that this podcast is on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on every one of the audio platforms. Just type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Often I gain from rewatching lectures and podcasts and I read in the comments that, hey, total listeners also gain from replaying.
So how about instead re-listening on those platforms, iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts, whichever podcast catcher you use. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal and donate whatever you like. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You get early access to ad free audio episodes there as well. Every dollar helps far more than you may think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you.
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▶ View Full JSON Data (Word-Level Timestamps)
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"text": " The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze."
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"text": " Have you heard? Sling TV offers the news you love for less. Hey, Wade, you look and sound just like me. I am you. I'm the same news programs on Sling TV for less. You mean you're me but for less money. A lot less. I'm all the favorite news programs and more on Sling TV starting at just $40 a month. Everything great about me but for less money? Which makes me greater, don't you think? Get the news you love and more for less. Start saving today. Visit sling.com to see your offer."
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"text": " This is real. There is an intelligence source by the name of David Grush who has come forward saying that he is aware of a crash retrieval program that has been illegally kept secret from the American public. He's also alleged by the way, bodies"
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"text": " Ross Coulthart is a world-renowned investigative journalist who's built a career reporting on issues ranging from war to corporate malfeasance to what brings us here today, namely the UAP topic. His work includes award-winning documentaries, for instance, many of them from the 60 Minutes Australia, as well as the UFO phenomenon."
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"text": " Ross has a notable book titled In Plain Sight, which serves as a fantastic, sober, no-fluff introduction to the subject and links as usual to everything is in the description. Recently, Ross has made headlines for his interview with UFO whistleblower David Grush, a former member of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, also known as AERO, and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, where Grush made claims about the existence of non-human origin vehicles, as well as even bodies."
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"text": " That interview gained worldwide attention. The last interview with Ross on the Theories of Everything podcast is one of the most viewed of all of the podcasts on tow. Needless to say, this episode, a second part with Ross, is one of the most requested. My name is Kurt Jamal."
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"text": " and I have a podcast here called Theories of Everything, where I use my background in mathematical physics to analyze theories of everything, predominantly from a theoretical physics perspective, though I'm interested in other approaches as to what's fundamental. Is presentism correct? What about holism over reductionism? What about consciousness? Where does experience come into play? What ontological status does mathematics have? You can think of it as explorations of the largest mysteries of the universe without already having some defined position that I'm advocating for and"
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"text": " trying to force the conversation in a contrived way toward it. At approximately the 20 to 30 minute mark, there will be a couple of ads. Those drastically help toe as well as the patrons. You'll also get audio episodes like this ad free and early. For instance, this episode was released a couple of days ago prior to it premiering on YouTube as a thank you to the patrons."
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"text": " So thank you to the sponsors and thank you to the patrons. If you'd like to support theories of everything this podcast, then visit patreon.com slash Kurt Jai Mungle at C-U-R-T-J-A-I-M-U-N-G-A-L with a donation of whatever you like. It genuinely helps. It helps both financially as well as emotionally. That is motivationally to know that there are other people like yourself who are willing to support a project like this, to bring it to other people, to thousands, to even millions of people at zero cost."
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"text": " Good morning Kurt. Well Ross, how's your morning going? My morning is terrific Kurt. I'm having my first cup of coffee and it's bitterly cold here in Australia where I live. Probably a bit warmer where you are, but I'm very, very happy because I've just seen the Douglas Dean Johnson report on"
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"text": " Some legislation that I've known is coming for a while, which is the Gillibrand Amendment, which essentially requires holders of non-Earth origin or exotic UAP materials. They give them six months to make it available to Aro, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office. And whilst it's dry and dusty legislation, it's extraordinarily significant to see the Pentagon"
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"text": " Putting in black and white text references to non-human origin technology. Essentially, it's an explicit admission of what people like myself and David Grush, the UAP witness, have known for some considerable time that there are witnesses that have come forward to the Congress, oversight committees, notably the House Permanent Select Committee,"
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"text": " for intelligence and also the senate select committee for intelligence and multiple witnesses whether the debunkers and denialists want to know it or not have given evidence about their knowledge of a legacy crash retrieval and reverse engineering program that is in operation right now that your country Canada is involved in"
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"text": " And I think slowly but surely we are incrementally getting closer to an acknowledgement that there is a truth behind all of this. You said that you and David Grush know about you feel as if you know this. I've been in the difficult position even the first time that I spoke to you of having confidential sources who are not yet prepared to go public and"
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"text": " In recent times, David Grush, of course, has been one of them. People who support his contention that there is a crash retrieval program that has been in existence for some considerable time involving the retrieval of non-human technology and that there has been secret agreements within the Five Eyes Alliance for the retrieval of that technology"
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"text": " And more importantly, that the United States in collaboration with other countries has been involved in the attempted reverse engineering of that technology. And yes, I have multiple witnesses who brought to be knowledgeable about the legacy UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program, including David Grush, who are at the right time prepared to come forward with their evidence."
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"text": " Evidence other than testimonial coming? Yeah, there probably will be. I mean, I think a lot depends, frankly, on how the Congress handles it from here. I'll be honest with you, my friend, I'm very skeptical, quite glum at the moment about the possibilities that the Congress is going to run with this. I do see and hear from individual representatives and senators who are dedicated and determined"
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"text": " To get to the truth of this matter, but I think that there are competing interests here. You have to, I don't want to sound like some wacky conspiracy theorist, but the reality is that the military and the intelligence community in the United States are an extremely formidable and powerful lobby in the Congress. Many congressmen and senators are reliant on support from that industry for their continued reelection."
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"text": " including people who sit on the respective committees in the Congress. And really, I think at the moment, where we're at at the moment is you have, since David Grush went public a few weeks ago, you have people in the skeptic debunker camp, and quite rightly, I think, saying, well, where's the evidence? And debunkers quite rightly say, well, he hasn't provided any yet."
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"text": " But I think there's a bit of willful blindness going on there. People are ignoring the fact that Mr. Grush legally faces criminal prosecution if he reveals the full extent of what he knows and about which he has testified not only to the two congressional intelligence committees, but also to the inspector general of defense and the inspector general of the intelligence community."
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"text": " And I don't want to sound like a long-winded lawyer, and I really think I have to keep on saying this until the sun goes down. But the simple fact is his evidence has been provided under oath to the relevant government agencies and committees that are entitled to hear it. And I respect and understand why there are officials in our intelligence community and defense community"
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"text": " who want to keep certain aspects highly confidential. I can actually understand why they're doing that. Knowing what I know, not from David Grush, but from other sources, I can understand why certain things, certain technologies, certain potential weaponries, certain capabilities are being kept confidential. What I do find increasingly bewildering is the reluctance of mainstream media"
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"text": " to acknowledge a growing reality. I've just this morning read a stupid piece written by a columnist in my national newspaper in Australia, the Australian newspaper. And it's a column entitled space aliens are everywhere. Oh, wait. And essentially, it's a piss take. It's a it's an attack on so called conspiracists who've"
},
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"text": " I said that the Pentagon knows all about UFOs, but have withheld it from the president and the Congress, preferring to exploit the non-human technology. And essentially it's a piss-take. It's a laugh. The whole idea, the whole concept that there might be some veracity to this. And the thing that really shocks me is I guess I'm lucky because I've been talking to people now for several years who have a knowledge of this program. I mean, no data exists."
},
{
"end_time": 742.585,
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"text": " People can call me a tinfoil hat crazy as much as they like, but the simple fact is it's real and it's slowly but surely dribbling out. I've spoken to senators and representatives in the Congress and staffers who've told me that they have been in the room when credible witnesses have given evidence, multiple witnesses have given evidence about retrieved non-human technology."
},
{
"end_time": 767.602,
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"text": " So my friend, the only question in my mind, and I'm very, very skeptical in light of the ridiculous blowback from even people in the UFO UAP community who should know better skills for the Pentagon, people who are conspiring in the cover up. There is a real problem at the moment in getting mainstream media engagement on this issue."
},
{
"end_time": 795.128,
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"text": " And it's not that there's some dark conspiracy, there's not some intelligence service, black men in black, telling editors not to run the story. What this is, is a residual stigma, a taboo that's been attached to this subject so well. And the hilarious thing is, I'm actually talking to people in the military who want this story out from within the high levels at the Pentagon."
},
{
"end_time": 821.22,
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"start_time": 795.469,
"text": " Who are frustrated that the national mainstream media is not engaging with this issue. They are incredulous that the disinformation campaign has been so effective that you've now got newspapers like the New York Times and the Washington Post either dismissing or passing or taking their time dragging their feet on deciding whether or not they want to investigate the allegations of a man like David Grush."
},
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"text": " Frankly, mate, I don't know what's going on in the national newspapers in the US, Canada and Australia and the UK and most of the world's major newspapers anymore. When an intelligence insider of the caliber of David Grush comes forward, somebody who has indubitable credible credentials, who the Pentagon in the three or four weeks since he went public,"
},
{
"end_time": 878.251,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 850.606,
"text": " Has not laid a glove on his credibility. Don't you think, don't you think if there was anything that they could pull out of the cupboard to attack David Grush with, the Pentagon would have done by now. They are desperately trying to plug the leaks and stop this from coming out. They're terrified that they are involved and indeed according to Mr. Grush involved in a potentially criminal conspiracy."
},
{
"end_time": 904.462,
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"text": " There are people at the highest levels of the Pentagon who have knowingly covered up and concealed from the Congress knowledge of a non-human intelligence. And they've done this for 80 plus years. And the thing that is fascinating to me is we now have legislation that my colleague and friend Douglas Dean Johnson has written about today."
},
{
"end_time": 934.65,
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"start_time": 905.009,
"text": " Which specifically states that there's now a bill written by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, which gives holders of non-earth origin or exotic UAP material, essentially an amnesty to come forward with what they know. Why would Congress demand the necessity for such legislation if they didn't know something? And what is going wrong with the curiosity of the world's greatest newspapers?"
},
{
"end_time": 963.643,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 935.247,
"text": " This is not, as some charge, a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Don't buy into the line that this is some spurious allegation made by some wacky, ill-informed intelligence operative. This is somebody, David Grush is somebody who at the very highest levels of the US intelligence community was cleared to top secret, compartmented intelligence."
},
{
"end_time": 989.326,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 963.951,
"text": " More than 2000 special access programs. This is a guy with one of the highest clearances in the US intelligence community who was tasked by a congressional mandate to go out as part of the UAP task force to investigate the phenomenon, to find out the truth of what America really knows. And you know what he found?"
},
{
"end_time": 1018.456,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 989.821,
"text": " He found a hidden crash retrieval legacy UFO reverse engineering program that's been going on since the 1940s and 50s. And frankly, I'm at the stage at the moment where if America's mainstream media and political leadership doesn't want to engage with this issue, then let them deny it. And then if the American public don't care about it,"
},
{
"end_time": 1048.933,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 1019.326,
"text": " Let them get on with their lives. Because. Inherently at the heart of all of this, and I know you have a lot of scientists in your community of watches could. I'm talking to people inside the legacy program who tell me frustratedly with great emotion, how much as scientists they care about the fact that this knowledge is being kept from a huge chunk of the human race."
},
{
"end_time": 1072.995,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 1049.462,
"text": " that only a select cadre of people inside the intelligence and military establishment are privy to this information. And they think, they tell me, it's unwarranted, it's unjustifiable. They acknowledge that we should not let our potential adversaries, Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, gain access to such dangerous technologies."
},
{
"end_time": 1101.954,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 1073.729,
"text": " But they see no reason why the human race can't be told what they tell me is the truth, which is there are NIH's non-human intelligences that have been engaging with this planet for many, many thousands of years. Thousands, not tens of thousands. Oh, well, I can't specify tens of thousands. I've just, you know, it would be more than tens of thousands. I mean, they've been with us for time immemorial, I'm told."
},
{
"end_time": 1132.21,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 1102.654,
"text": " No. Millions. That's your that's your words, my friend. I don't know. I don't know for sure. But the simple fact is I'm kind of I'm bored with this debate at the moment. You know, I don't care anymore. I just think. You know, people. There's a fundamental failure here of oversight. I know a lot of people are going to get excited with what this new legislation says."
},
{
"end_time": 1162.142,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1132.415,
"text": " I want to deal with that because I think it's important that we talk about it. But I have a gut feeling that congress is hot is not in this. And that the lobby the powerful military lobby that wants this suppressed is winning. And sure enough they've got their shields out there in social media they've got their friends in the media you know every national security correspondent is being told on the qt stay away from this one on the qt."
},
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"end_time": 1192.346,
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"start_time": 1162.585,
"text": " Can you explain how this works? Yeah, sure. I mean, I've reported on national security issues. The thing I find hilarious is, let's use an analogy. Let's talk about what happened at the time of the last Gulf War, shortly after the Al-Qaeda attacks, 2002, 2003. For some reason that has never been even now fully properly explained, Al-Qaeda became Iraq,"
},
{
"end_time": 1220.606,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1193.046,
"text": " and Afghanistan and we ended up launching totally disastrous wars into both of those countries based on intelligence from sources. Okay. Now ask yourself credulous national security reporters who have since been hung out to drive for their failure to do their job properly accepted assurances from the CIA, from Cole Powell and his testimony to the UN."
},
{
"end_time": 1250.794,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1221.049,
"text": " This was an important moment where the world was essentially strict into going to war against Saddam Hussein on the false claim that he had weapons of mass destruction in the Iraqi desert. That was all sourced back largely in part to one guy called Curveball. That was his code name, Curveball, a guy based, I think, somewhere in Germany, who was a refugee. And it turned out he was a put up by the Iraqi National Congress, who were essentially"
},
{
"end_time": 1278.2,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1251.254,
"text": " a group that were largely aligned with Iran. And because of credulous national security reporters not doing their job, a source led the world to war in the Middle East. Billions of dollars have been expended in an unnecessary war. Hundreds of thousands of lives of good people have been lost in an unnecessary war."
},
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"end_time": 1305.725,
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"start_time": 1278.951,
"text": " Now the problem with that was you had largely American journalists, but also British and Australian journalists. And I cut myself in this as well. I was involved in doing some of these stories. You know, we credulously accepted the assurances that the Americans were giving that there were weapons of mass destruction in the Iraqi desert and that they had to be an engagement with Saddam Hussein to bring this to a resolution to stop this evil man from doing these terrible things."
},
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"end_time": 1336.425,
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"text": " The reality was that it soon emerged within a few weeks of the invasion, that there weren't these WMDs. The whole pretext for the war was wrong. The intelligence was wrong. So you have a double standard here. You have the media back in 2003, what's that, 18 years ago, credulously accepting assurances from the National Assurance Security Establishment. But, oh yeah, we should believe our sources. Yeah, yeah, we should go to war in the Middle East. Absolutely. Now we've got a situation where"
},
{
"end_time": 1363.712,
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"start_time": 1337.005,
"text": " A highly reputable, credible intelligence source, somebody who personally hand delivered the presidential daily briefings from the National Geospatial Agency directly to the west wing of the White House, entrusted with 2,000 special access programs, goes public and makes very dramatic and, yeah, I'm sure quite ontologically shocking claims about an NHI presence, an alien presence on this planet."
},
{
"end_time": 1389.957,
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"start_time": 1365.179,
"text": " How many stories have you seen in the news sections of the New York Times, the Washington Post, or any of the TV networks, ABC, CBS, NBC? Not one. The only stories that have run in the New York Times or the Washington Post are doubting op-ed pieces run by opinion writers that are very easily marginalized. Why is it?"
},
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"end_time": 1415.111,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1390.35,
"text": " That on the one hand, 18 years ago, the same national security reporters were so credulously willing to accept and to parrot the assertions of intelligence officials that, oh yes, that we do have high evidence, strong evidence to support a war in the Middle East. And 18 years later, yet again, their critical faculties are under test. Hear that sound?"
},
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"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
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"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone."
},
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"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
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"text": " Why are they accepting what I assume is going on behind the scenes, which is background briefings from people in Pentagon PR saying, oh, no, no, this is all nonsense. You know, don't believe this guy. He's got an axe to grind or whatever it is they're saying about David Grush. The reality is if they had"
},
{
"end_time": 1550.316,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1523.729,
"text": " I have not seen any credible refutation drawing any reasonable doubt about why David Grush should not be allowed to say what he's saying. Yes, he hasn't put up the evidence that he can't put up because it's classified."
},
{
"end_time": 1580.265,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1551.118,
"text": " But why on earth did the defense office of pre-publication security review give him the authorization to talk about non-human intelligence, about crash retrievals, about agreements? Why did he do that? He did that because he believes on the basis of evidence he has received, he thinks the American public and the world have the right to know the truth."
},
{
"end_time": 1602.432,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1581.203,
"text": " And frankly, if we are going to continue with the incredible lack of curiosity inside the mainstream media, we're not one news reporter has engaged with this issue in a serious way. They've all just ignored it. They've gone, Oh my God, I can't talk about that because if I talk about that, I won't get invited to the next Pentagon."
},
{
"end_time": 1622.961,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1602.944,
"text": " Chomsky talked about this in manufacturing consent as well for the Vietnam War, but it's not just the UFO topic like you mentioned, it's the Iraq War as well. It's something that's known about. Yeah, and look, it's a really important one because"
},
{
"end_time": 1650.401,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1623.763,
"text": " It's part of David Grush's allegations and they are only allegations. He's been at pains to say, yeah, sure, I've got the evidence. If you want the evidence, put me under oath in the right circumstances where I'm allowed to give that evidence and I will provide it. But he's not about to put himself in jail by revealing what he knows in a public forum because the Pentagon knows that they have him"
},
{
"end_time": 1679.821,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1651.049,
"text": " Where they want him if he reveals beyond what he's authorized to reveal in the so called DOPSA, the defense office, pre publication security review document. If he goes beyond that document, he's in jail in a flash for breaching his classified constraints. So you have a really, which I really think people need to particularly opinion leaders, particularly thought leaders in politics,"
},
{
"end_time": 1709.087,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1680.128,
"text": " Social media. We're now in a situation where the Congress, I know, because I've been talking to people in the Congress, has actively interviewed and deposed witnesses who support Russia's claims. That's why this legislation that Douglas Dean Johnson has written about today is so significant. Why would the Congress be talking about companies that are holding secretly"
},
{
"end_time": 1726.954,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1709.684,
"text": " Items of non-earth origin or exotic UAP material if they didn't think there was something to it. The people behind this move, Gillibrand, Marco Rubio, it's not unreasonable to expect that they have presidential ambitions one day."
},
{
"end_time": 1753.797,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1727.432,
"text": " Would they really put their presidential ambitions on the line by making assertions implicit in legislation like this if they didn't think there was something to it? And what on earth is going on inside the major newspapers in America, Canada, the UK, Australia, that this issue is just consistently ignored and swept under the carpet?"
},
{
"end_time": 1781.015,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1754.377,
"text": " Yeah, I mean, we didn't go when I was approached by David and it was suggested that I do this TV interview. I didn't even consider going to ABC, CBS or NBC. You know why? Because I knew we wouldn't have got within QE of getting it on air. And the reason why is because all of these networks, all of these major newspapers have completely lost their objectivity on national security issues."
},
{
"end_time": 1810.316,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1782.142,
"text": " It's really interesting. One of the things I've noticed just in the last few hours while this whole pre-Gaussian advance on Moscow has been going on, the best commentary has not been coming from the New York Times or the Washington Post, because all of these institutions, they no longer have the resources to have their reporters on the ground doing the work that these kind of papers used to do. They're waiting for the Pentagon to tell them what to say. And that's the tragedy."
},
{
"end_time": 1834.189,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1810.708,
"text": " What's really going on and this is why social media i think in the long run will be the entity that breaks the story of the reality because mainstream legacy media."
},
{
"end_time": 1857.21,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1834.462,
"text": " which i've been apart for so many years has completely dropped the ball on the uap issue that's the problem and it's a it's a huge dilemma because i i suspect that there are people in the pentagon right now who feel that they've done a really good job suppressing this story that david grush has been effectively marginalized"
},
{
"end_time": 1886.22,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1857.91,
"text": " And they're working, I'm sure, behind the scenes right now to try and neuter any congressional inquiries. I mean, for example, Tim Burchette, the Tennessee representative, and Koma, the chairman of the oversight committee in the House, they volunteered that they want a hearing. They want an investigative hearing by the oversight committee into Dave Grush's allegations. And they've made it quite clear they'd like to call Grush."
},
{
"end_time": 1912.79,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1887.022,
"text": " But there's no way they have the clearances to hear what David Grush wants to tell them. It's pointless. I mean, I have huge respect for their motivations and what they're trying to achieve. But even if they do it in camera, it's not entirely clear to me that all of the members of the oversight committee that would want to hear this evidence have the Title 10, Title 50 clearances that would allow them to hear"
},
{
"end_time": 1940.094,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1913.097,
"text": " What has been so well locked up by the national security establishment behind special access programs for so many years. And people are missing the point here. Everywhere you go on this story, the Pentagon's there ahead of you. And I'm not painting some evil picture. There are really good people at the Pentagon that I respect and admire. Good people in the intelligence community who are extremely well motivated and who want this story out."
},
{
"end_time": 1966.169,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1940.23,
"text": " They are as frustrated as we all are with the fact that there's a lot of nonsense being used to disguise and hide what the Pentagon and the government really knows. But unfortunately, there are a cadre of people who I suspect are frightened of being held responsible for the consequences of their actions, who have presided over what I suspect is a long and enduring cover-up for decades."
},
{
"end_time": 1993.183,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1966.527,
"text": " And it's quite astonishing because in my line of work as a journalist, you always get taught to assume a screw up before a conspiracy. Very rarely do conspiracies happen, largely because governments can't keep secrets. But in this case, they have kept this secret. They've done an incredible job. And when it's leaked, they've been able to marginalize, ridicule, and stigmatize the people who've come forward."
},
{
"end_time": 2023.234,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1993.865,
"text": " Because people say, oh, it's never leaked, you know, therefore it can't be true. It has leaked. People have come forward. But what the National Security Establishment has done so well through operatives of disinformation who continue to get traction to my huge frustration, even on social media today, and I'm not going to name them, but there are people that consistently appear on social media and plant false information who purport to be representing government agencies, and they're not."
},
{
"end_time": 2052.466,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 2023.592,
"text": " All there are are shills of disinformation and they're there to essentially continue to sow doubt about the issue. It's brilliant. I take my hat off to them. They've done a fantastic job. But I can tell you the Congress or there are individuals in the Congress who are determined to get to the bottom of this. And this legislation, this bill that Senator Gillibrand has now brought to the House or is about to bring to the House is incredibly important."
},
{
"end_time": 2079.48,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 2052.978,
"text": " It's vitally important that this legislation pass because it's only a bill at this time. Do you think it will? It's a tough gig. I mean, okay, it's a bipartisan measure. Both sides of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence want this bill to pass. Marco Rubio is for it as well. I think ultimately what it boils down to is whether there is the political will"
},
{
"end_time": 2106.954,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 2079.957,
"text": " In the congress and the political world is derived from public sentiment and at the moment you know i would say that because of the control that mainstream media has even to this day on social opinion public opinion i would say it's a line ball at the moment whether or not the congress is going to back it and and certainly i think there probably will be"
},
{
"end_time": 2137.159,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 2107.295,
"text": " Private in-camera secret congressional hearings like there already have been. I mean, what we're talking about here, it's already known. Marco Rubio, Senator Gillibrand, they already know what I know. They already know about the legacy program and the reverse engineering program because there have been depositions of witnesses, plural, who have provided evidence to their committees to support the claims made by David Grush."
},
{
"end_time": 2160.538,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 2137.568,
"text": " People missed this point. Secretly, inside the Congress now, for quite some time, many, many months, there have been hearings where witnesses have come forward. I'm told at least one of those hearings, Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor for the President, may very well have been involved. Why are the White House press corps not asking questions like this?"
},
{
"end_time": 2188.746,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 2160.947,
"text": " Did you see that ridiculous question and answer with, forgive me if I've got her name, is it Corrine Jean-Pierre, the presidential spokeswoman? Lovely woman, but she was asked the other day about the claims made by Mr. Grush, and she just deferred it. She just ducked past it to the Pentagon and said, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that. Why is it satisfactory for the White House press corps, supposedly the elite of media in the world,"
},
{
"end_time": 2218.575,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 2189.07,
"text": " To allow the presidential spokesperson to duck a question that is absolutely fundamental. When a very senior intelligence operative recently resigned has come forward saying all these incredible things. They may well be incredible. They may very well be ontologically shocking to people. But why is the media not doing its job and asking the question? Why did the White House press call when that question was asked?"
},
{
"end_time": 2247.739,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 2219.053,
"text": " just let the presidential spokeswoman duck it and say, Oh, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that. Because what the Pentagon then does is it says arrow, which is the Pentagon's UFO investigation office has no credible evidence to support, you know, the existence of extraterrestrial presence on planet earth or something like that. And that's not an answer. The Pentagon is confining its answers to arrow and arrow is heavily constrained in"
},
{
"end_time": 2278.046,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 2248.353,
"text": " Where it's allowed to look and what it's allowed to do, because it doesn't have the security clearances it needs to make the investigations it needs to be able to do into special access programs that are concealing allegedly these hidden programs. And so you've got this, you've got this catchall where the public is being fed a line and where you see, you know, columns like this in my national newspaper, which are just spurious nonsense."
},
{
"end_time": 2302.466,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2278.592,
"text": " Where they essentially, without any justification, they make a claim that it's all a conspiracy theory. And they don't look at the fact that the Pentagon is saying, gee, we think this is serious enough to put in legislation reference to technology of non-Earth origin. Gee, as journalists, maybe we should ask the question, why is the Pentagon being asked"
},
{
"end_time": 2329.411,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2302.927,
"text": " Why are private aerospace being asked to reveal if they have items of non-earth origin, if there's nothing to this? Why is it good enough? I mean, do you get the feeling I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over again? Because I do. I mean, I don't know what has happened to the capacity for critical thinking that used to be in the American media I know."
},
{
"end_time": 2359.667,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2331.015,
"text": " I mean, what happens to the brave and resolute congressmen and women who would ask tough questions? The Daniel Inouyees, the Harry Reads, the people who would actually stand up and question. Are we to accept that now Congress's role is to meekly rubber stamp what the Pentagon and the intelligence community say? Because we're being played here. Even this legislation,"
},
{
"end_time": 2383.404,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2360.418,
"text": " that is coming up in the Gillibrand bill. It's very constrained in what it allows the in what it requires these companies to do. Under my reading of this legislation. If the aerospace company"
},
{
"end_time": 2407.5,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2383.848,
"text": " was privately involved in the recovery of non-human technology. If it didn't use the US government to recover that technology, it doesn't have to report it to Aero. It doesn't have to report it to Congress. And I'm told that on multiple occasions, private aerospace companies using private military contractors have been involved in crash retrievals."
},
{
"end_time": 2435.657,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2407.961,
"text": " I can hear the debunkers and the declaimers rolling their eyes and going wacky conspiracy theory. I don't care what you guys think. I know what my sources are telling me. And my sources are telling me that private aerospace companies have been involved in private retrievals. And under the Senate Intelligence Committee proposed legislation, I don't think there would be an obligation on those private aerospace companies to reveal what they have."
},
{
"end_time": 2466.22,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2436.425,
"text": " Another loophole in this legislation that's a worry to me is that if a private aerospace company is in possession of technology that was recovered with government assistance or was passed on to them by government, say 50, 60, 70 years ago, if they divest themselves of that technology, then they're not required under my reading of this bill to report it to the Congress or to the arrow."
},
{
"end_time": 2494.002,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2466.766,
"text": " What do you mean if they divest themselves of the technology? Okay, well, I understand at the moment. I'll tell you my understanding. This is how much I know. I am told that right at this very moment, there is a major private aerospace company that is trying to divest itself of a craft. It has approached another company expressing interest in selling that technology to them. And the reason why"
},
{
"end_time": 2519.565,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2494.684,
"text": " I suspect it's because they've known this legislation is coming. That's what's going on here. You know, you have private aerospace companies that are actively involved in trying to subvert the intention of Congress. Now roll your eyes. I don't care. The simple fact is there are people who are telling me this from within the"
},
{
"end_time": 2548.37,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2520.213,
"text": " The legacy program who are very concerned that there is an active attempt underway to hide technology from the Congress. And there's another issue here. Another issue is if a private aerospace company has been involved in a retrieval, as I understand they have been by law, it's their property. Sure. They may have to reveal it to the Congress, but by law,"
},
{
"end_time": 2577.995,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2548.933,
"text": " There's a very, very good argument that they are under no obligation to hand over that technology or to give the knowledge to the government. And that's because there's actually a law called the law of ownership and control of meteorites. And essentially, there are provisions in international law that mean that it's not just meteorites. Essentially,"
},
{
"end_time": 2608.78,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2580.111,
"text": " If you come into possession of something and you've spent the money on recovering it yourself, it's an incentive for people to develop the technology that might arise from that recovery, that they enjoy the private ownership of that material. So one of the issues that we have behind all of this is let's assume hypothetically that there are private aerospace companies that have been sitting on technology for 50, 60, 70 years."
},
{
"end_time": 2637.568,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2609.582,
"text": " In the first category, let's say Roswell happened in 1947, and let's say around about 1950 or so, perhaps in the 1970s, the Roswell craft was passed on to a private aerospace company. What happens then if they've had possession of that object for 50, 60 years? Does the US government really have a claim on that technology? In law, there's a question mark. And what if"
},
{
"end_time": 2667.756,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2638.046,
"text": " As I noticed, somebody was recently asserting just in the last 24 hours on Twitter. What if say technology from recoveries in the US has been moved extraterritorially into Canada? Oh, gee, that's interesting. What if Canada was secretly in possession of retrieved technology that is owned by a US aerospace company and being worked on by, say, Canadian government scientists in collaboration with US scientists?"
},
{
"end_time": 2695.009,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2668.66,
"text": " What's the law on that? Does the US Congress have extraterrestrial control over that technology? Interesting question. And then separately from that, another loophole that you could drive a truck through here is what if those private aerospace companies have recovered that technology using private military contractors, as I understand it has very much been the case in the last few years,"
},
{
"end_time": 2721.647,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2695.964,
"text": " What if it's been entirely recovered by those private aerospace companies, perhaps in collaboration with the U.S. government, but they've spent all the money and all the resources on doing that. Shouldn't they ought properly to have the rights to that technology? I mean, imagine hypothetically if it is true. Imagine, just imagine if it is true that say Lockheed Martin, let's say Lockheed Martin has a spacecraft. Let's say they've got a"
},
{
"end_time": 2748.763,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2722.056,
"text": " a perfectly operating flying saucer from, say, Kingman, Texas, sitting on blocks somewhere in a cave, sitting in a private facility somewhere. Why do they have to give that technology knowledge to the Congress? And why should they? They're a private aerospace company. They've got they've got every reason to want to develop an advantage over the around over their corporate rivals. Even if that company was dealing with the government,"
},
{
"end_time": 2777.961,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2749.582,
"text": " Well, that's the issue. The issue is, I've spoken to people at a very high level in Silicon Valley who have resources and money, who are very angry that they believe technology was gifted, vested into private aerospace companies 50, 60 years ago when they didn't exist. And they're now aware of this. And what they're not angry about is that the public don't know about it. What they're angry about is that they've not been cut into it. That's what's going on here."
},
{
"end_time": 2804.309,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2778.677,
"text": " And it may all sound like a wacky conspiracy theory, but let's see it investigated. Grush has made these claims. He has risked his career. He's risked his security classification to come forward and give evidence. And he's done it by the book. He still has those security classifications. He does. Okay. Can I summarize the Grush story and see if I have it correct? Sure."
},
{
"end_time": 2817.875,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2804.582,
"text": " The crush is a senior official he has was was a senior official has or had plenty of access to different secret parts of the government secret activities I'm trying to make this simple for myself and the audience as well."
},
{
"end_time": 2844.889,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2818.541,
"text": " He's like, okay, I'm seeing something here that has to do with non-human intelligence. I'm hearing it through the grapevine. I perhaps have seen doc. No, no, it's more, it's, it's more, more than through the grapevine. He's spoken directly. He's spoken directly with people in the legacy programs or people who at least purport to have had direct knowledge and contact with non-human technology. Okay. Then he's like people, namely the public should know about this."
},
{
"end_time": 2864.65,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2845.35,
"text": " Okay, how do I go about doing this? Because I don't want to go to jail. So I'm going to go to a part of the government. There's a part of the government called DOPSR. So Defense Office of Pre-Publication Security Review. It's when somebody's got a security clearance, they need to get authorization to speak publicly about whatever it is they want to speak about."
},
{
"end_time": 2889.155,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2864.991,
"text": " They write down in a proposal what they want to say and then DOPSA approves it. And that's exactly what he's done here. He's gone to DOPSA, the defense office, pre-publication security review office, and they have approved him revealing what he's revealed. Okay. So then he tells them, here's what I want to tell the public. And then they say yes or no, but the parts they say yes to. Sure. And just to be just to be clear, Kurt,"
},
{
"end_time": 2916.118,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2889.633,
"text": " The fact that DOPSA gives that approval is not an endorsement that what he is saying is necessarily true. All it is, is merely an endorsement that what he is saying is not breaching national security because that's their role. Their role is to make sure that the statements that he makes don't breach his security classification. Okay. So they're not saying that it's true. They're just saying that what you're saying is not classified."
},
{
"end_time": 2945.503,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2916.544,
"text": " Okay, so then he goes on with you and this huge news story breaks and he says that there are non-human intelligences or non-human crafts and bodies. So what I was thinking is there's this no-win scenario here because if he says extraordinary claims, then we can just say, yeah, but the government said that that's not classified. If that was going on, that would be classified. They would say, please don't talk about that. Well, that's what's going through my head and plenty of others. So how do you think about that?"
},
{
"end_time": 2967.978,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2947.09,
"text": " Okay, I mean, I think he had to get DOPSA approval in order to do the interview that he did with myself and that he did with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. And he did that. And as I've emphasized, that approval in and of itself doesn't mean it's a warranty by the Defense Department that what he's saying is true."
},
{
"end_time": 2998.712,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2968.951,
"text": " But if the defense department had not wanted him to do the interview, then they would have had to have cited the laws that he was breaching by revealing what he knows. And then as he's explained it to me to, to be forced to, he would have taken them on in court and challenged them on that. And he was ready to do that because if, as he asserts, there is illegal and possibly criminal"
},
{
"end_time": 3026.937,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2998.985,
"text": " withholding of evidence from the Congress. That legal challenge would have given him the right to present evidence that would then have validated his claims publicly in a way that would have been incontrovertible for the Defense Department. So the only choice that they had when presented with the DOPSA application was to give him the approval because they couldn't risk"
},
{
"end_time": 3047.295,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 3028.08,
"text": " If he's telling the truth, they couldn't risk the damage that would be caused if they try to cover this up of this being forced out into the open in an open hearing in a court. Because there are lawyers who are prepared to take this to the highest courts in the land. There are people in"
},
{
"end_time": 3077.449,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 3048.353,
"text": " companies in America who are angry that they have been cut out of the vesting of technology that allegedly occurred 50, 60 years ago. And there is bitterness that a small cadre of private aerospace companies in the military intelligence community with a long association with the US government have been given alleged access to this technology in a way that other companies haven't."
},
{
"end_time": 3106.493,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 3078.012,
"text": " Not least because those companies feel they have a better job, a better capacity of developing the technologies than the private aerospace companies that have been trying to do it for 50 or 60 years. That's what's behind all of this. It's not really a public campaign. What's driving the moves in Congress is that privately there are companies that are bitterly angry that they have been cut out of the loop."
},
{
"end_time": 3137.022,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 3107.79,
"text": " It's part of American capitalism, free enterprise, good old free enterprise, that companies should be able to compete for contracts with, you know, to help the American government do what it does well. If it's true that there are companies that have been given access to non-human alien technology and that they've had that technology now for 60, 70, 80 years, if that's true, and that's what Mr. Grush is alleging, if that's true,"
},
{
"end_time": 3163.08,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 3137.705,
"text": " Then there are other companies in America that have every right to feel resentful and bitter that they've been cut out of the deal. It might explain the reason for some of the dominant companies in defense aerospace today. This is what's at stake here. And so what's going on behind the scenes is yes, there is a formidable military and intelligence lobby"
},
{
"end_time": 3189.821,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 3163.541,
"text": " trying to shut this whole Grush stuff down, trying to stop the Senate Intelligence Committee from holding public hearings. And it's the Senate Intelligence Committee, by the way, that has the security clearances that would allow it to hear the evidence that Mr. Grush has got. But what's going on behind the scenes is quietly and behind the scenes, there are other people who are not part of that defense aerospace loop."
},
{
"end_time": 3219.701,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 3190.06,
"text": " who are bitterly angry and they are lobbying their congressmen as well and they're saying if this is true and i think it is because i've had conversations with some of these people if this is true this is outrageous this is an abrogation of the good qualities of american capitalism and free enterprise why should these private aerospace companies be given a free run hence this groundbreaking legislation which for once and for all is going to force"
},
{
"end_time": 3247.688,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 3220.145,
"text": " the truth to come to the open. If it's true that there is non-human technology of non-earth origin held by private aerospace companies somewhere in the world, under this law that's proposed, they will now be forced to reveal it. That's why this matters. But as a separate issue, I don't know necessarily that the public is going to get told this. I think that there is quite a"
},
{
"end_time": 3269.735,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 3247.978,
"text": " a strong opinion inside the Congress, even amongst some of the people pushing for disclosure, that if we can get away with revealing this to the Congress privately in oversight committees inside secure, compartmented information, secret, you know, compartmented information facilities, or whatever the word is for a skiff, it might be the better way to do it."
},
{
"end_time": 3293.899,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 3270.674,
"text": " I don't think there is a push or a strong feeling in the Congress politically that it's a good idea for America to know, if it's true, that there are non-human intelligences engaging with this planet. I don't think that there is a strong political impetus for the politicians to feel that it's time for the existence of the retention of non-human technology to be brought to public attention."
},
{
"end_time": 3322.705,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 3294.514,
"text": " But I do feel, and this is what people need to understand, there is an imperative inside the Congress now for the truth to be brought to the attention of those oversight committees. And it's what those oversight committees decide to do with that information that will be absolutely fundamental. I mean, no disrespect to, I think, Mark Warner, who's the chairman of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence. But he's, I think, based in Virginia. I mean, who are his constituency in Virginia?"
},
{
"end_time": 3347.432,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 3323.217,
"text": " The military and intelligence community. What does the military and intelligence community likely want done about some revelations of retained, highly advanced technology? Well, if I was them, if I was the CIA, the NSA, the DIA, I'd want it kept confidential so that we can develop it for our own advantage and try and develop a superiority over the Russians or the Chinese. It's not hard."
},
{
"end_time": 3377.039,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 3347.927,
"text": " I wouldn't want it made public and I'd be lobbying the chairman of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence to keep it confidential. But I think that what's slowly happening is people misunderstand and I think there's a large amount of the social media commentary at the moment on UAPs who think that what we're heading towards is some mass disclosure event. I don't think that's going to happen. I really don't. I think that what is probably going to be happening is that a very controlled disclosure"
},
{
"end_time": 3407.722,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 3377.961,
"text": " And I think they will learn that, yes, there is retrieved non-human technology and that there is a secret reverse engineering program going on in which your country, Canada, is involved intimately. And if people dug into that, they'd find a whole lot more if they only bothered to ask, don't you find it by the way extraordinary, Kurt?"
},
{
"end_time": 3433.507,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3408.319,
"text": " Absolutely extraordinary that this Larry Maguire letter can leak. Jeremy Corbell and NAP leak this letter. I've known about this letter for some time. And in fact, it was posted back in May by another source on Twitter and it was completely ignored by people. Daniel Otis, a very respectable journalist from Canada has noted that this document was actually up online as early as May."
},
{
"end_time": 3461.459,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3434.206,
"text": " But it actually says Larry McGuire alleges to the Minister of National Defence in Canada, quote, You may not be aware, Defence Research and Development Canada, DRDC, that's Canada's equivalent, if you like, of DARPA, the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, has participated in efforts to analyse UAP, which is publicly traceable to circa 1950."
},
{
"end_time": 3487.517,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3462.125,
"text": " This recovered foreign material is studied through the Five Eyes Foreign Material Program, the FMP, which in Canada is sponsored by the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command, aligned with several intelligence sharing arrangements and treaties. Now, Maguire, who's not a senior member of parliament, but he's obviously spoken, and I know he has, he's spoken to people inside that program."
},
{
"end_time": 3510.538,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3488.029,
"text": " I know he's spoken to scientists and people with a direct knowledge of that retrieval program. But what's not happening is the spin is starting. People are now coming back and saying, oh, the only thing he knows is stuff that Grant Cameron's told him from public sources. That's not true. And Mr. McGuire needs to be pushed. And a good journalist in Canada needs to get on the phone to Mr. McGuire or"
},
{
"end_time": 3540.606,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3510.794,
"text": " Stick a TV camera in front of him and say to him, sir, what are you alleging? When you told your defense minister that DRDC has been working in efforts to analyze UAP, what is your knowledge based on? Is it just based on what you've read in somebody else's book, or is it based on direct conversations with sources? And I think he will tell you the latter. Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store"
},
{
"end_time": 3573.541,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3544.326,
"text": " Larry Maguire, if you're watching, I would love to have you on if you're willing to answer questions like this. Now, what worries me is that"
},
{
"end_time": 3596.152,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3573.916,
"text": " We're not seeing the follow up from media i'm trained as an investigative journalist to ask questions like that because i've learned to read between the lines in what are you serious so when susan goth the pentagon PR woman stands up and says that arrow has found no credible evidence of et. That sounds like a pentagon denial but it's not."
},
{
"end_time": 3624.036,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3596.578,
"text": " Because she's speaking for arrow, which is not a body in the Pentagon that has the clearances to even ask the questions that need to be asked. And so we've got this ridiculous containment going on of information where a glib accepting credulous media in the mainstream media is allowing a continued peddling of falsehood and"
},
{
"end_time": 3650.64,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3625.265,
"text": " People like myself who are engaging directly with people in the program who are watching to see what happens and weighing whether to come forward. I'm getting increasingly pessimistic because whilst legislation like this, this bill is important. You could drive a truck through the loopholes in it. And as I've pointed out, as I've pointed out, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 3677.858,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3651.101,
"text": " A clever lawyer for a big defense zero space company could go, look, all we need to do is develop a front company, divested into that front company, and we no longer have physical possession of that information. So let's, let's just do that. I mean, there is any number of ways they can evade accountability to the Congress. What is needed and what I suspect is not going to happen is the kind of proactive investigation that David Grush did."
},
{
"end_time": 3706.323,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3678.541,
"text": " Because this is the issue. In the comments that were made by Susan Gough, the Pentagon PR woman, she said there is no restriction to Aro, the Pentagon's UFO investigation office, receiving, that's the important point, receiving any past or present UAP related information, regardless of the affiliation of the original classification authority within DOD or the intelligence community."
},
{
"end_time": 3729.684,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3706.698,
"text": " Receiving is the pertinent word because ARROW is set up to receive information that witnesses decide to come forward with to ARROW under the incentive provisions laid out in the National Defence Authorisation Act. And I can tell you, because I'm talking to some of them, those witnesses are sitting there looking at ARROW and they do not think that ARROW is an objective player."
},
{
"end_time": 3758.353,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3730.299,
"text": " They think that there is spin coming from the Pentagon, that it's being disingenuous with what it's saying, and they do not trust Arrow or its heads. People like Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, however well motivated he may be, the perception is that Arrow is not a fair player, which is why David Grush went directly to Congress, by the way, because before the National Defense Authorization Act legislation was brought in, in late December last year,"
},
{
"end_time": 3785.333,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3759.087,
"text": " He'd already given his evidence to the oversight committees in the Congress. I suspect he would now be required to go to Arrow first under the new legislation. And he probably wouldn't do that because he doesn't trust them, because he's seen how they operate. And the point is, is that when I drew your attention then to the fact that Susan Goff's comment was restricted to Arrow receiving any past or present UAP related information,"
},
{
"end_time": 3814.548,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3785.947,
"text": " Her whole response is predicated on the assumption that people are going to come forward. What David Grush did was proactively go out and do his job as a UAP task force investigator, and he investigated. And that's what wrong-footed the Pentagon. Because there are, I'm sorry, it's a terrible thing to have to say, but there are people in your military and intelligence community in America who are actively involved in a cover-up, and I include Canada in that as well."
},
{
"end_time": 3837.551,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3815.128,
"text": " There are people in both governments that do not want the story of crash retrievals and reverse engineering programs to come out. And I think a large part of that is because they're worried about the consequences for them and their careers if it's revealed that they've been actively subverting accountability to Congress. And so what David Grush did"
},
{
"end_time": 3866.596,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3837.927,
"text": " was rather than wait for witnesses to come forward to arrow as came forward came through in the NDA legislation at the time he was working on the UAP task force he was tasked to go out and proactively investigate and that's what he did he went out and he proactively investigated he talked to some of his friends who had similar security clearances to his and as he told me in the interview to his shock and amazement"
},
{
"end_time": 3888.626,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3866.852,
"text": " He discovered that some of them knew about the program, the legacy program. And contemporaneously with Mr. Grush, the reason he and I crossed paths is because even though neither of us have confirmed this to the other, because we don't want to betray sources, we suspect that at different times we were talking to some of the same people inside the program. Interesting."
},
{
"end_time": 3910.998,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3889.002,
"text": " And so I was told about the existence of this guy, David Grush, who was doing this great work, doing this proactive investigation and how he was the victim of reprisals. Reprisals? I can't go into a lot of detail, but they form the basis of his complaint to the Inspector General, both of the Defense Department and the intelligence community. But I think"
},
{
"end_time": 3940.998,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3912.039,
"text": " It's for Mr. Grush to give evidence under oath in the Congress and in the public hearing that might be happening, where he can describe what's been happening. I'm waiting for him to have the right to explain to the public what's been going on. But frankly, I mean, I know from other witnesses, what's been going on is quite despicable. I've spoken to other witnesses who tell me that they've been threatened, that they've been told their or their families could be killed if they spoke publicly or came forward with the evidence that they have."
},
{
"end_time": 3967.517,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3941.493,
"text": " Um, there is a very active attempt to try to subvert the Congress's intentions in forcing this to be made knowledge to the public or at least to the Congress's attention. I mean, what people need to understand Kurt is the Congress already knows there are members, particularly of the gang of eight, not all of the Congress, some members of the Congress, some members of the Congress."
},
{
"end_time": 3993.66,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3967.807,
"text": " No, no, no, no, no. Some members of the Congress, only a very few select members of the Congress have the clearances that are sufficient to allow them to even hear this information. Sometimes when David Grush was giving evidence, I've heard from people who were in the room, certain people had to leave the room because they didn't have a sufficiently high clearance to hear what he was revealing. That's in this oversight committee that you're referring to? Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 4022.295,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3994.104,
"text": " Okay. And do you happen to know if that split politically is even of those who have access or those who are in the know, or is it more Democrats than conservatives or vice versa? It's interesting. Actually, I'd say there's a bipartisan view at the moment that this is something that ought properly to be brought to the attention of the Congress. I wouldn't say that there's a bipartisan view at the moment that this ought to be made public. Okay."
},
{
"end_time": 4045.077,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 4022.892,
"text": " I think people are missing this point. The motivation of good men like Christopher Mellon, Louis Elizondo and the people who've done the right thing in trying to bring this attention to the Congress is a large part of their motivation is to make sure that proper accountability controls are put in place and that if there have been"
},
{
"end_time": 4073.848,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 4045.691,
"text": " breaches of the law or crimes committed that those crimes and breaches of the law are investigated and that any people responsible are properly dealt with according to law. But whether it's decided in the interests of national security that this be brought to public attention is another question entirely. Now we know, I think it's a reasonable assumption that back in 2016 at the time of the Clinton Trump election campaign,"
},
{
"end_time": 4100.776,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 4074.497,
"text": " It's very, very clear now that there was an effort inside the Pentagon to address the fact that Hillary Clinton was going to be clearly a disclosure president. She and her husband Bill know something clearly, and they were clearly, according to the leaked WikiLeaks emails of the John Podesta emails, Podesta as the"
},
{
"end_time": 4130.845,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 4101.203,
"text": " I think he was campaign chairman for Hillary Clinton was deeply involved in negotiations with two senior former Pentagon generals in discussing disclosure, UAP disclosure. And clearly this was being driven, I suspect out of a realization that with a president that was determined to push for disclosure, there was going to have to be some candor from the defense and intelligence establishment. What's happened since is"
},
{
"end_time": 4155.316,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 4131.578,
"text": " In the intervening five years, there's been, I think, a strong pushback from the intelligence and defense community. They're really angry and nervous about the fact that this might be revealed because there is. I mean, I'm very confident there is a crash retrieval program underway where there is attempt to reverse engineering on craft."
},
{
"end_time": 4178.797,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 4155.674,
"text": " My source, the former director of science, technology and development for the US Navy told me that and I put that in my book and he went on to introduce me to people in the legacy program who confirmed the veracity of what he said. Now, the simple fact is that I don't think there's the political will at the moment for"
},
{
"end_time": 4208.66,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 4179.514,
"text": " this to be made public. I don't think you're going to see what a lot of people in ufology dream of, which is the president standing up at a lectern and saying, ladies and gentlemen, we are not alone. I don't think the world is ready for that at the moment, or at least that's the view of the Pentagon and the intelligence community. And I think it frankly suits strategic objectives of the United States to maintain national security dominance, that it keeps the fact of recovered technology confidential."
},
{
"end_time": 4233.848,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 4209.497,
"text": " And I do think there's a strong likelihood, if not probability, that this will all be put back in a box, that there will be quietly changes made at a very high level in Congress to ensure that the Gang of Eight, at least, is briefed properly about this. The Gang of Eight is a group of nine very senior members of Congress."
},
{
"end_time": 4254.462,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 4234.411,
"text": " who are selected because of their seniority to be briefed into the most sensitive secrets in the US government and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a decision was made that yes we admit the existence of this program to that committee and we keep it all off the books for now."
},
{
"end_time": 4284.087,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 4255.316,
"text": " because this is extraordinarily sensitive. That gang of eight is known, like it's known who they are. Yeah, I beg your pardon. The gang of eight is known like their names. Oh, yeah, you know, it's known. It's referred to, sorry, it's gang of eight, not gang of nine. It's well known as the primary oversight body on intelligence issues inside the Congress. And it's cleared to supposedly hear the most intimate secrets of all inside the U.S. military and intelligence establishment."
},
{
"end_time": 4313.558,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 4284.701,
"text": " And what's been happening, allegedly, is that they have not been briefed into what you and I are discussing. Individuals on the Gang of Eight, I suspect, know some of what we're talking about. But I think that what's happened is there was a divesting of this technology as early as the 1950s and more latterly in the 1970s under Nixon."
},
{
"end_time": 4342.637,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 4314.36,
"text": " And because it's been held for 50 or 60 years in private aerospace, it's been very ambiguous whether there is even an obligation to disclose the Congress knowledge of this. And I think it's suited everybody to keep it quiet, to keep it in private aerospace. But as people like Dr. Eric Davis have said publicly, I think he said this to Alejandro Rojas on a podcast a few years ago. He said that in 1989,"
},
{
"end_time": 4368.746,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 4343.473,
"text": " The reverse engineering program was actually shut down for a while, basically because it wasn't getting anywhere, that it was suffering from lack of funding. And that's tragic. And this is one of the reasons why there is a frustration from inside that legacy program that it's time the Congress knew. And frankly, they think the public should know because, you know, if these technologies are real,"
},
{
"end_time": 4398.729,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 4369.394,
"text": " Just for a moment, abandon all disbelief and go, if these technologies are real, if it is true that there are craft that can do what Elizondo has referred to as the five observables, positive lift, propulsion systems, instantaneous velocity, incredible speeds, even superluminal speeds, transmedium travel and stealth mode, if those technologies exist,"
},
{
"end_time": 4427.517,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 4399.343,
"text": " It means that someone somewhere has developed technologies that are far beyond known human technology. And the interesting thing is we are, I suspect at that point at the moment where even the head of the all domain anomaly resolution office, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick has admitted that there are anomalous metallic spheres"
},
{
"end_time": 4457.875,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 4428.012,
"text": " Witnessed by military and other observers around the planet for some time now that are doing anomalous things, and witnesses describe them as apparently moving under intelligent control. Something is allowing these objects that do not have any visible propulsion system to do things that we cannot explain. It suggests that there is technology there, energy systems there, technological secrets that"
},
{
"end_time": 4484.667,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 4459.138,
"text": " And for example, I mean, one of the great crises that our planet faces at the moment is the risk of global warming, the climate change. Imagine if overnight that energy system behind this technology could be used and derived to assist humanity to a clean source of energy. If that exists, and it does appear that it does exist."
},
{
"end_time": 4508.933,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 4485.162,
"text": " Otherwise, what's propelling these objects that even the arrow admits are real? This is the thing that I find there's a logical dissonance. There's a dissonance between what we now know publicly, which is yes, UAPs are real. Yes, we are seeing anomalous objects that we cannot explain that appear to be displaying the five observables. Yes, this is real."
},
{
"end_time": 4536.288,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4509.411,
"text": " By implication i using a technology we do not understand i must have enormous capacities for extracting energy in a way that we do not understand and they obviously have propulsion systems that are not emitting heat or displaying a propeller or a propulsion system that we're familiar with by any definition the fact that we've admitted that such a phenomenon is real is mind-boggling"
},
{
"end_time": 4566.408,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4536.937,
"text": " Because it means someone out there is capable of doing this. And what I find perplexing is the utter lack of curiosity. At what stage does, because I'm hearing even from within NASA and even inside the US government, I'm hearing from people who work for organizations that take an avowedly skeptical view, organizations like NASA, for example, that take an avowedly skeptical view on all of this phenomenon."
},
{
"end_time": 4584.565,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4567.125,
"text": " And privately they're admitting to me, yeah, this is real. It's baffling to us as well. And they are as intrigued as I am by the fact that there is this dissonance between what we know. I mean, look at the facts, make your own judgment."
},
{
"end_time": 4610.708,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4585.606,
"text": " We are looking at objects that are displaying the capabilities of the so-called five observables, including capacities to draw extraordinary amounts of energy and propulsion systems without any visible means of propulsion. No heat. I mean, how on earth does an object like a metallic ball stay aloft without rocket propulsion or propellers? How is it doing that?"
},
{
"end_time": 4637.517,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4611.254,
"text": " Perhaps one explanation is that it's developed some form of anti-gravitic propulsion. Now, if such a technology exists, and frankly, prima facie, it appears to, on the US government's own admission, these objects are anomalous, they can't explain them. If these objects exist as they appear to, someone is sitting on that technology."
},
{
"end_time": 4668.524,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4638.558,
"text": " At what point does the world develop sufficient curiosity to compel those who know about it to come forward and admit what they know? And that's all Mr. Grush is asking. He's never expected that people would believe him just on what he said to me in the interview, or in his interview with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal, what he's pleaded for as a loyal, patriotic American citizen who's played it completely by the book,"
},
{
"end_time": 4694.838,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4669.036,
"text": " He's done the DOPSA. He's sought permission to speak. He's obtained it. He's kept within his security oath and made sure he doesn't transgress that security oath in revealing what he reveals to me or to Leslie and to Ralph. But what he said is, I am a credible former senior intelligence officer. Call my bluff. If I'm lying, I go to jail. I accept that."
},
{
"end_time": 4723.353,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4695.213,
"text": " Because I will have perjured myself not only before the Congress, but also before the inspectors general of defense and intelligence community. Think about that. Why would a man of such high credibility and repute come forward publicly and put himself at such risk if he's lying? All he wants is for his claims to be tested and investigated. What? What are people frightened of?"
},
{
"end_time": 4748.2,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4723.78,
"text": " If it's not true, let's deal with it really quickly. And if it's not true, then frankly, articles like this nonsense article that appeared in the Australian newspaper just yesterday can be got rid of. It's the default media ridicule mode, where what they do is they essentially go, oh, it can't possibly be true, therefore it isn't. That's been the default mode for"
},
{
"end_time": 4768.234,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4748.626,
"text": " Decades and what people don't realize is that it's part of crushes allegations that they've been deliberately disinformed by the pentagon and by the intelligence community that there's been an active disinformation that frankly media and movies and tv shows have been manipulated."
},
{
"end_time": 4789.172,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4768.712,
"text": " Literally, you've had people from the intelligence and military coming in and actually controlling and dictating by regulating access to military resources, how movies are told. Explain about that, please. Sure. For example, my co-host of my podcast, Need to Know, Bryce Zabel,"
},
{
"end_time": 4808.473,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4789.684,
"text": " Bryce is an illustrious Hollywood screenwriter and producer and he made a TV series that was very much the precursor to X-Files called Dark Skies. And in Dark Skies it tells the story of alien beings secretly operating at the time of JFK."
},
{
"end_time": 4829.94,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4808.899,
"text": " infiltrating the US government and it's essentially it's a science fiction story and he postulates that JFK was murdered because of his attempts to bring this out into the open, the fact of a secret alien presence on planet earth. Now that's fiction and in one of the sequences the aliens possess humans by"
},
{
"end_time": 4855.862,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4830.23,
"text": " Quite frighteningly emitting a ganglion from their mouth and literally putting it inside a human being and taking them over and it's quite frightening and terrifying and it's one of the graphic video images that you see on dark skies. Bryce had a lot of fun telling it. But the way he tells it, he and his co-producer colleague were approached by the Department of Navy Intelligence."
},
{
"end_time": 4885.742,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4856.698,
"text": " And in secret, they were approached and offered the opportunity to tell the story accurately about how aliens really do possess people. Now, they can't verify the truth of what these guys were telling them. But what both he and Brett, his colleague, attested to is that they were actually approached by a military agency and offered the opportunity to collaborate on getting the information in their fictional series as accurate as possible."
},
{
"end_time": 4909.428,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4886.544,
"text": " Sorry, do you put accurate as possible in quotations because you feel like they're going to feed them disinformation at this point? I don't know. I don't know. But I don't know the truth of it. I mean, I don't know if aliens do have such capacities if aliens exist."
},
{
"end_time": 4927.807,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4910.162,
"text": " But isn't it intriguing why would a military intelligence agency be wanting to actively involve itself in controlling the output of a fictional tv show to influence the public about a non human intelligence aliens that's been happening in hollywood for years."
},
{
"end_time": 4957.381,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4928.268,
"text": " And since Bryce and I spoke about that on our need to know podcast, which people, by the way, can access at www.needtoknow.today. The link will be on screen right now as well as in the description. Sure. But you know, since we spoke about that, I've heard from other people who've told me about how there's been active attempts by U.S. military and intelligence to essentially influence how movies are told when it comes to talking about non-human intelligence for decades."
},
{
"end_time": 4984.121,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4957.91,
"text": " Why are they doing that? What's the role of the military or the intelligence community in influencing fictional stories in Hollywood? Why would they feel the necessity to do that? I'm just asking that question. But again, it's the lack of curiosity by media because a lot of this has been dismissed as tinfoil hat nonsense and conspiracy theories. It really isn't."
},
{
"end_time": 5012.671,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4984.497,
"text": " I mean, I know for a fact, I've spoken directly with producers and filmmakers who've had these approaches and there are whole books written about the way out. I think it's one called, I think it's called Silver Sources. I recommend it. It's a great read. It talks about how Hollywood has routinely been meddled with by the military and intelligence community on the issue of UAPs. Can you tell me more about these fears? You said that they are across the earth and that they move about of their own will."
},
{
"end_time": 5031.067,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 5013.353,
"text": " As viewers of my YouTube channel, which if you just go to YouTube and put in Need to Know and Kultart, you will come across documentaries that I've made for Channel 7 Australia. And in one that I made in 2022,"
},
{
"end_time": 5059.889,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 5031.578,
"text": " I interviewed a guy in Texas called Jim Marlin, who told this credible and I emphasize extraordinarily almost an unbelievable story about this metallic sphere that he has possession of. And how large are these fears? I beg your pardon? Sorry. How large are we speaking of? Oh, the sphere that he had is sort of, you know, it's about that big. Okay. It's I think it's from memory. It was about 40, 40 to 50 pounds."
},
{
"end_time": 5078.968,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 5060.282,
"text": " For those listening, Ross just gestured with his hands and it's approximately arms length. So that's two to three feet. And very solid. He'd never opened it. He'd never tried to cut it open. He didn't want to cut it open, but he claimed that it was moving under its own control at times. And, um, he, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 5103.456,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 5079.957,
"text": " He basically told me this elaborate story about how he'd got it from a friend of his who'd literally seen it fall out of some kind of craft that hovered over his property. And I ran the story because I've been talking to people now for some time who've been telling me about sightings of metallic spheres all over the world."
},
{
"end_time": 5131.698,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 5103.746,
"text": " and that there is a phenomenon that multiple witnesses have seen where metallic spheres operating under apparently their own propulsion with no visible means of propulsion are intelligently moving around airplanes, objects in the sky, their video, their photograph. And I've also spoken to people in sensitive areas in your government, in the US government,"
},
{
"end_time": 5158.131,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 5132.193,
"text": " who've told me that this is something that needs to be taken seriously. And what's fascinating is in the most recent UAP hearing, people have, again, again, I just find it amazing how lacking in curiosity most of the media are. Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of ARO, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office,"
},
{
"end_time": 5186.476,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 5158.916,
"text": " somewhat begrudgingly admitted that yes, there are anomalous metallic spheres doing anomalous things moving in anomalous ways that have been seen all over the world that they cannot explain. And a number of them have been photographed or videoed by American military assets, notably in the Middle East and captured on video or photographs. And"
},
{
"end_time": 5216.732,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 5187.09,
"text": " It's interesting because since I did that documentary on Channel 7 Australia, my life has not been my own. I have been swamped with people sending me videos, photographs, personal accounts of seeing these metallic spheres. I had one yesterday, a guy sent me an account of he and his girlfriend lying in grass in a field somewhere in I think it was Macedonia."
},
{
"end_time": 5246.63,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 5217.244,
"text": " And they look up and there's this metallic sphere hovering right above their heads and, and, you know, ultimately people say witness evidence isn't worth a job, but we send people to prison on witness evidence. You know, we convict people and give them the death sentence on witness evidence. And when you have, as I now have hundreds of people, if not thousands, actually hundreds of people testifying that they have seen these anomalous metallic spheres doing weird things. Um,"
},
{
"end_time": 5265.418,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 5247.295,
"text": " I think it should be investigated and so interestingly begrudgingly the Pentagon's arrow office has admitted it should be investigated as well. And this is the thing that amuses me is that everybody in the mainstream media either ignored or wrote off the most recent UAP hearing."
},
{
"end_time": 5292.5,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 5266.049,
"text": " But you actually had an admission from the head of the Pentagon's UAP investigation office that, yeah, there are anomalous things that we can't explain. We have to admit that these include metallic spheres. Now, one of the things he didn't explain is how did he know they were metallic? Have they recovered them? I mean, I wonder. And so what we've done is in collaboration with Professor Gary Nolan,"
},
{
"end_time": 5320.572,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 5293.08,
"text": " Jim Marlin the Texas owner of at least one of these spheres and I know owners of other spheres are hopefully able to collaborate with Professor Nolan and he's getting access to a sophisticated materials analysis laboratory and we're in our own time going to do our own analysis and it'll be interesting to see what results eventuate and we will report on those results if and when we can do so."
},
{
"end_time": 5347.176,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 5321.391,
"text": " And I think frankly, that's what's got to happen here, because I suspect, well, I know that the US government knows a lot more about these metallics fused and it's prepared to let on. I have to be very guarded in what I say, because I have to protect sources. But suffice to say, I think the public will get to hear some very interesting information about those objects in due course."
},
{
"end_time": 5371.954,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 5347.398,
"text": " What's the timeline on that? What's the progress look like so far? Can't comment. Okay. Earlier, you mentioned the legacy program. It's still going on though, but it's called the legacy program. Yeah, it's essentially it's a it's an acknowledgement, I guess that this is a program that goes back to the Second World War, at least that there have been retrievals since allegedly, according to Grush."
},
{
"end_time": 5396.408,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 5372.927,
"text": " Well, the first retrieval he knows about was in 1933, which is allegedly the Magenta Italy Italian UAP craft, which was allegedly returned or recovered by the Americans in 1944 with the assistance of the Vatican and brought back to America. And if that's true, that's what Mr. Grush is alleging."
},
{
"end_time": 5426.374,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 5396.869,
"text": " If that's true, one can only hope that it's investigated and that people get to the bottom of in collaboration with the Vatican. Yes, the Vatican the Vatican interceded to assist in handing the technology over from the vestiges of the Italian government at the end of the fascist Mussolini regime and handing it over to the Americans as the Americans moved into Italy at the end of the Second World War. So that doesn't mean that there's something inherently Christian about this. It just happened to be where the Vatican is like there's something geographical about it."
},
{
"end_time": 5455.06,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 5427.005,
"text": " Do you know, it's funny, I've spent a large part of my career revealing the horrible sort of history of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. So I'm not a fan of the way it's conducted itself with its treatment of children. But one thing I will applaud the Catholic Church on is that it's long had a very progressive attitude towards the notion of a non-human intelligence. And I think 10 years ago, the Vatican astronomer, they do actually have a Vatican observatory in Italy. He spoke publicly about the notion that essentially"
},
{
"end_time": 5477.09,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 5455.538,
"text": " Whatever species we are of intelligent being, we are all God's children. And I think the Vatican knows an enormous amount about the phenomenon. And one person I commend you speak to is Diana Walsh-Pasolka, who's written a terrific book called American Cosmic. And she's got a new book coming out that I've been privileged to preview. And it's fascinating."
},
{
"end_time": 5506.476,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 5477.534,
"text": " I have indeed spoken with Diana Posolka. It's a great conversation. Actually, it's one of my favorite conversations on the whole of theories of everything where we talk about the dark side of the phenomenon, especially psychologically, as well as how to cope with it. It's listed in the description. And it's fascinating. And I think the Vatican is well aware of allegations that the planet has been shared with a non-human intelligence for a large part of humanity's existence."
},
{
"end_time": 5530.145,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5507.073,
"text": " and I'm told that some of the best archives and information historically on this is stored in the Vatican. The other word that stuck out to me was the what the legacy program like the like there's a single one. This to me sounds like this would be a multi department and a multi program program. So why is there just one"
},
{
"end_time": 5559.036,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5531.425,
"text": " I think it's a euphemism that's become quite common inside the program, as it's called. It's called the program. That's the euphemism that people have used to it. And I think those of us who are passing comment on it have referred to it often as the legacy program, because essentially it's been a continuing program that never stopped operating throughout the Cold War. And it continues to this day. One of the"
},
{
"end_time": 5589.275,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5559.616,
"text": " Issues though, and you quite rightly make this point, is that it's now fragmented. I think the allegations of my sources, not just Mr. Grush, are that this program is now administered across different private aerospace companies, notably one of them, of course, is Lockheed Martin. I think those companies should be asked directly whether they have had or have possession of non-human technology."
},
{
"end_time": 5619.138,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5590.009,
"text": " That at one stage was in the position of the U.S. government. And are they going to be obligating their requirements to respond under the new legislation that's coming up before the Congress? It's going to be very interesting to see what they say, because I think that one of the one of the big issues here is, and I say this as somebody who's trained in intellectual property law, they might rightly think it's their property. Why the hell should they have to account for this to the U.S. government?"
},
{
"end_time": 5645.589,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5619.718,
"text": " If they've spent the money and done the work in the last 60, 70 years on trying to develop this technology, what business is it of the US Defense Department or the US government if they were properly vested this material or if they recovered it themselves? Why should the US government have any right over it? I'm kind of on their side on this. You know, frankly, if Elon Musk develops anti-gravitic propulsion based on a recovered piece of technology,"
},
{
"end_time": 5672.466,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5646.067,
"text": " Why the hell should he have to account for it to the US government? What businesses that have theirs, if they've been so incompetent as to hand over this technology invested into private aerospace, then I'm kind of on side. I'm a big fan of private enterprise and capitalism. I think that the profit motive drives some of the best innovations in technology. If I was a private public area, a private aerospace company that's responsible to my shareholders,"
},
{
"end_time": 5700.538,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5672.91,
"text": " I'd be getting my lawyers briefed and ready for a big fight with the Congress. What business is it of theirs? I'm kind of with them in a way, really. Bottom line is, if Lockheed Martin has a flying saucer hidden in a cupboard somewhere, and if they've spent billions of dollars on trying to develop that technology, why should they be putting up being bullied by US Congress? What business is it of Congress? If some president in the past made the decision to divest"
},
{
"end_time": 5722.961,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5700.93,
"text": " The US government of this technology or to take it out of say the department of energy fifty sixty years ago why would they completely divest themselves the government completely give this technology up and not say hey private industry you have great technology to investigate this technology let's work together. That's a very good question could i one explanation that i heard is that."
},
{
"end_time": 5753.797,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5723.797,
"text": " There was concerns that the Department of Energy in particular was going to be brought under the control of various regulatory agencies, notably the Government Accounting Office, the GAO. And I'm told that at one stage the GAO was asking some very shrewd questions about monies and expenditure relating to the program and a decision was made to divest that technology from the DOE into private enterprise. And unless proper contracts were drawn up at the time that required"
},
{
"end_time": 5781.032,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5755.401,
"text": " remained the property of the US government. Well, frankly, my friend, if I was a clever IP lawyer, I would be saying, stuff the US government. This is ours. You know, we're one of the world's top aerospace companies. Why should we have to hand this over? I'm kind of sympathetic with them. And I think if they came out publicly and actually said that and said, yeah, we've got this technology, but it's none of your bloody business. Piss off, leave us alone. We know we're spending the money."
},
{
"end_time": 5806.22,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5781.8,
"text": " We've got the scientists, we're spending the dough. If the US government was stupid enough to go off and fight wars in the Middle East in the last 10, 15, 20 years and not spend money on a Manhattan style project to back engineer alien technology, then it's their fault. I mean, I think we're actually a very interesting point here where the implications of this extraordinary legislation"
},
{
"end_time": 5828.251,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5806.8,
"text": " Where clearly what's going on behind the scenes here is the congress is pissed off. It's upset that it's asked. It's demanded. It's already required under the NDAA laws that people come forward with evidence of UAPs and they know it exists. They know that evidence is there. That's what's driving this legislation."
},
{
"end_time": 5853.985,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5828.643,
"text": " The reason why Senator Gillibrand is pushing for aerospace companies or private corporations to be forced to reveal whether they've got objects of non-Earth origin or exotic UAP material is because they've got witnesses who've already told them about it. And if I'm, I don't know, let's just say Lockheed Martin, and they've got a flying saucer sitting in a cupboard somewhere, they might think, well, hell, guys,"
},
{
"end_time": 5874.94,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5854.718,
"text": " That one there, we recovered that ourselves from Guatemala a few years ago. Why the hell should we tell you about that? It's none of your business. We're a private company. Free enterprise is what made America great. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. These loopholes characterize the states and perhaps Canada, maybe Australia."
},
{
"end_time": 5902.261,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5875.794,
"text": " Is this something that's occurring worldwide? Because I don't imagine that these loopholes exist in Russia or in China, and I don't see why it wouldn't leak. You did mention that some, I don't recall exactly what, but some parts of this have leaked. But I don't know if it's related to this. Anyway, what do you say to that? Let's deal with your country. I know for a fact that Canadian scientists are actively involved in working and collaborating with the United States on retrieved non-human technology there."
},
{
"end_time": 5910.299,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5903.404,
"text": " Let's just see if any of your media now go out and ask questions about it. I don't think they will, because they'll be cowed."
},
{
"end_time": 5939.462,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5910.725,
"text": " They won't even go into a press conference. One reasonable thing to do would be to go to a press conference and ask the Canadian defense minister with the cameras rolling. Minister, what inquiries have you done as a result of the letter from Larry McGuire, a member of parliament who told you that he is aware of a reverse engineering program with which Canadian scientists have been collaborating through your DRDC for decades with the U.S. government? Is she going to answer that question? She should."
},
{
"end_time": 5965.452,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5940.35,
"text": " Now let's deal with Australia. I've spoken to very senior people in my government who've told me they know nothing about any Australian involvement in reverse engineering. And I think that's true. I think that there have been individual military personnel, mainly from our special forces, who have collaborated in retrievals. I've spoken to people who've alleged to me that they've been involved in retrieval operations."
},
{
"end_time": 5978.473,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5966.254,
"text": " I do believe that it's possible that technology has been tested on Australian territory or over our sovereign waters without our knowledge. And I'm investigating that at the moment."
},
{
"end_time": 6000.776,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5979.326,
"text": " Let's deal with the UK. I think the UK knows a lot more than Canada or Australia. It's been a very active member of the Five Eyes through the Foreign Material Program because there have been retrievals in the United Kingdom and in Europe, I am told. It is alleged to me. I don't know that for sure, but the allegation that has been put to me"
},
{
"end_time": 6028.148,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 6001.374,
"text": " and that includes British special forces personnel, is that there have been active operations crash retrievals even within the last few years. This has been an ongoing issue. And people may say, oh, well, how come these things are crashing? If these are such advanced technology, why are they crashing so much? Often they're not crashing. They're just retrieved. We don't know the circumstances in which they came to be where they are."
},
{
"end_time": 6050.691,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 6029.036,
"text": " I'm told it has been alleged to me that on occasion they have been fully functioning technologies recovered with no visible damage to them. Now, under the foreign materials program, as is detailed in the Larry Maguire letter, which is a secret Five Eyes agreement for the recovery"
},
{
"end_time": 6079.872,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 6051.459,
"text": " normally of foreign adversary technology like Russia or China, like the latest MIG or the latest rocket system and things like that. It's happening a lot at the moment inside Ukraine. I'm told that through that FMP, the foreign materials program, there have also been very controversial and very secret recoveries of what people believe is non-human technology. But if you're a soldier, a special forces operative, and you're cleared to be involved in a retrieval operation like that,"
},
{
"end_time": 6109.428,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 6080.265,
"text": " The level of knowledge that you have is limited to your to your utility. You know, it could very well be they've just been standing there with a rifle, making sure nobody comes on scene while scientists and officials move in and remove whatever it is. So it may very well be they have no direct knowledge themselves as to exactly what it is. And they're open to the accusation that what they're talking about might just be a Russian satellite or a Chinese drone or something like that. This is why this needs to be investigated."
},
{
"end_time": 6139.77,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 6109.957,
"text": " Because one of the things that I am aware of is that there is an intelligence take, there is distribution of Five Eyes intelligence now, and it's become much more routinized than it ever used to be. And within the last few years, there is now intelligence sharing on UAPs within the Five Eyes Alliance. And I've spoken to people in Australia who've told me that they've seen some of this take, very senior people in our intelligence community."
},
{
"end_time": 6170.435,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 6140.452,
"text": " And when I've said to them, should we just cut this claim of collaboration inside the five eyes on alleged retrievals? They've giggled and said, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it past the Americans at all. And one of the phenomena that's quite common here in Australia, one of the things that I've reported on as a journalist reporting on the intelligence community has been it's been a long standing practice for Australia, Canada and New Zealand as kind of"
},
{
"end_time": 6198.2,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 6170.845,
"text": " junior partners of the Five Eyes Alliance to do plausibly deniable favors for their big brother allies in the US and the UK. And so during the Cold War, it's now public information that Australians, New Zealanders often collaborated with the Brits or the Americans to bug or to tap foreign embassies or foreign adversary companies, countries, buildings."
},
{
"end_time": 6228.217,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 6198.558,
"text": " and we did plausibly deniable favors for our friends. I'm told also that we've been involved in retrievals of, and quite rightly so, it's a good thing that we've been doing this, retrievals of Chinese and Russian and North Korean technology, you know, we're keeping tabs on our potential enemies. But I'm also told because I've had chats with people who've been involved in these operations that there have been retrievals where what's being retrieved is obviously far more controversial."
},
{
"end_time": 6258.524,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 6228.814,
"text": " And I think the Brits know a lot more about this because they've been more actively involved and there is a high level of collaboration between the UK and the US on this issue. But it's interesting because certainly the parliamentary oversight committees in the United Kingdom that I've engaged with, they're not aware of this. So again, there's an accountability issue here. If British military or intelligence have been involved, I don't think their parliamentary committees know about it."
},
{
"end_time": 6288.012,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 6259.326,
"text": " Frankly, I think they should. I'll give you an example. I did a story in 1994, that's how old I am, about how operatives of our Australian Secret Intelligence Service, our equivalent, if you like, of the CIA, assisted the British government in bugging Kuwaiti government officers after the first Gulf War to procure a"
},
{
"end_time": 6307.534,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 6288.268,
"text": " trade advantage to win contracts against which Australia was competing. And the operatives that were involved in that operation told me how they were paid cash by the Brits and told not to tell their Australian masters what they'd been doing, bugging Q80 government officers to help the British win contracts against the Australians."
},
{
"end_time": 6337.619,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 6308.2,
"text": " And there was a Royal Commission of Inquiry, which essentially is a bit like a grand jury investigation, which looked into this issue and the whole issue of plausibly deniable favours by our intelligence community to assist our big brother allies, the UK and the US, was brought to the fore. Another incident that I became aware of when I did the story in 1994 was that when the Chinese government was negotiating with the British about the handover of Hong Kong back to China,"
},
{
"end_time": 6366.237,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 6337.91,
"text": " Australian government operatives were involved at the behest of the British SIS in bugging Chinese government officers in Hong Kong so that they could negotiate a strategic advantage in the negotiations with the Chinese. And imagine the consequences for Australia if we'd been caught by the Chinese and doing that kind of high level spying. I mean, the blowback would have been enormous. And so I raised in my story the issue of why we were doing these plausibly deniable favors."
},
{
"end_time": 6395.657,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 6367.21,
"text": " This is the same thing that's been going on with UAPs because Larry Maguire, in his letter to the Canadian Minister of Defense, specifically raises how he's concerned that upcoming public announcements will be coordinated between AUKUS, which could damage Canada's credibility with our allies. And AUKUS, it's not a very well-known agreement, but it's the Australia-UK-US agreement."
},
{
"end_time": 6424.548,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 6396.22,
"text": " And what it is, is essentially a collaboration defense agreement, which is essentially targeting, providing Australia with nuclear submarine technology. It's bringing Australia into the nuclear world. Controversially, a huge controversy in Australia, we're spending $400 billion on nuclear attack submarines, probably the Virginia-class American submarines in the next 20 to 30 years."
},
{
"end_time": 6453.404,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 6426.067,
"text": " I know my prime minister in Australia and my defense minister and the heads of our intelligence services in government do not know about the crash retrieval program if it exists. The Australian crash retrieval or the? No, no, no, no. The US Canadian crash retrieval collaboration. If I was Australia and I'm about to spend nearly half a trillion dollars on weaponry"
},
{
"end_time": 6475.759,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 6453.899,
"text": " Which is supposedly the top of the line weaponry in the world. I would expect as a five eyes ally partner to be brought into the loop on the fact that the US is potentially sitting on vastly more superior technology. I would expect that it would be a legitimate question for my government to be asking are we being sold a lemon."
},
{
"end_time": 6504.206,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 6476.493,
"text": " Are we being sold technology that will be superseded within five to ten years if and when the American government finally admits the truth of what this alleged crash retrieval program involves? Alleged technology that is capable of extraordinary energy from the vacuum, extraordinary propulsion systems that are capable of instantaneous velocity, the performance characteristics manifested in the five observables. That's the technology I would want"
},
{
"end_time": 6534.65,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 6504.667,
"text": " in preference to a nuclear attack summary. And so this is why this is relevant to agreements like the AUKUS agreement. Are members of the Five Eyes Alliance who have historically been treated and patronized as junior partners, are they being locked out of information and knowledge that ought properly to be being shared with them to assist them in making decisions about their future national security? That's why this matters."
},
{
"end_time": 6558.08,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 6535.435,
"text": " I'm not trying to drive a wedge between the Five Eyes partners, but I have had discussions with people in my government in Australia where I've said, look, I know stuff that Canada is allegedly involved in, and you may not want to ask about it. But I think there is the beginning of a realization now in my government in Australia that they haven't been told the whole story."
},
{
"end_time": 6585.452,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 6558.285,
"text": " I suspect, for example, that there are facilities in Australia that have been used for experimentation with some of this technology by the US government as places like Groom Lake and Area 51 became more and more scrutinized and hot. Vast, empty areas of Australia and our ocean are beautiful places to practice technology."
},
{
"end_time": 6614.053,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 6586.203,
"text": " And in my book, In Plain Sight, I start the book by talking about an extraordinary sighting, multiply corroborated, where a gigantic black triangular craft hovered silently over two policemen and a civilian woman and did performance parameters, performance characteristics far beyond known human technology. And that's a technology that has been seen by multiple witnesses that I've since spoken to."
},
{
"end_time": 6638.234,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 6614.377,
"text": " clearly something was operating over northwest Australia back in the early 90s that has never been properly explained and clearly the Americans knew about it and tried to shut people down from talking about it. And so it's funny and I obviously get frustrated with stories like this one in our national newspaper where the whole issue of"
},
{
"end_time": 6656.049,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 6638.609,
"text": " alien conspiracies are mocked and you know there really are references to little green men and that sort of nonsense and it's just kind of belittling ridicule that ignores the fact that there is an abundance of evidence no longer circumstantial to suggest that there is something going on."
},
{
"end_time": 6685.776,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 6656.544,
"text": " The Pentagon has admitted the reality of the phenomena. It has admitted that there is an anomalous phenomena, possibly intelligently controlled, doing things, showing performance parameters that we cannot explain. Multiple hundreds, thousands of witnesses have seen objects doing things that are apparently craft under intelligent control, showing performance parameters that just cannot be explained within known human technology."
},
{
"end_time": 6715.384,
"index": 251,
"start_time": 6686.647,
"text": " There is an intelligence source by the name of David Grush, who has come forward and courageously spoken out for the first time publicly saying that he is aware of a crash retrieval program that has been illegally kept secret from the American public. He's also alleged by the way, bodies and some journalists seem very shy about even discussing that issue because they're worried and confronted that people may find it so ontologically shocking that they don't want to talk about it."
},
{
"end_time": 6739.667,
"index": 252,
"start_time": 6716.391,
"text": " This is real. These allegations are being made. They should be being investigated. That's all David Grush wants about that triangle. Do you think that we have the ability to operate? Forget about reverse engineer. I'll refer you to again, one of the episodes of need to know www dot need to know dot today I"
},
{
"end_time": 6768.046,
"index": 253,
"start_time": 6740.009,
"text": " I interviewed a former British special forces soldier called John Chapman. He's a former British para, very highly trained British soldier. He was literally in combat in Ukraine in the very early days of the battle around Kiev in April last year. He was with a group of Navy SEALs, special forces soldiers from all over the world, an international battalion that was fighting behind Russian lines."
},
{
"end_time": 6797.671,
"index": 254,
"start_time": 6768.473,
"text": " And in the interview that he did with me, he and his colleagues described seeing firstly three strange lights appear in the sky, in the night sky, and then all of a sudden a triangular craft winked into existence. And the way he's described it, it appeared to be operating as some kind of surveillance and reconnaissance platform. It silently moved above the battlefield literally as they're getting mortared"
},
{
"end_time": 6824.206,
"index": 255,
"start_time": 6798.148,
"text": " They're looking up and they're describing it, they're seeing it, they're absolutely categorical that they saw it. I've corroborated that this was seen. Some kind of triangular surveillance platform was being used on the battlefield, clearly monitoring Russian positions in the very early days of the Kiev offensive by the Russians. I don't know who that was, but something was taking an interest."
},
{
"end_time": 6854.241,
"index": 256,
"start_time": 6824.582,
"text": " And that platform, that triangular object has been seen by multiple witnesses all around the world. Now, I know people love to dismiss all this as a wacky conspiracy theory, and they love to sort of push the idea that this is just a conspiracy theory and it's pushed by crazy people with little green men agendas. That's no longer the case. This is being rationally suggested by sober men and women at a very high level."
},
{
"end_time": 6879.633,
"index": 257,
"start_time": 6854.616,
"text": " the American governments, both in Canada and the US. I've had conversations with people in your government. They privately admit to me that they know something's going on, but they're frightened of asking. It's almost like, well, we kind of assume it's in the national good, so we're not going to push any harder. But I think that's what the people who've been hiding this all these years have been playing on. I think there have periodically been people inside the US government"
},
{
"end_time": 6907.858,
"index": 258,
"start_time": 6880.043,
"text": " who have an oversight role, one of them is perhaps Admiral Tom Wilson, the Wilson document, as we've discussed previously, Kurt. And I think people have stumbled across the issue from time to time. And I think they've bought the line that this is a national security imperative and that they shouldn't push any harder. But I'm sorry, it's clear to me now from talking to the sources that I've spoken to, and this is clearly what the Congress is finding out as well."
},
{
"end_time": 6935.811,
"index": 259,
"start_time": 6908.387,
"text": " that there have been illegalities, if not criminal breaches of the law. One of the allegations that David Grush made to me in my interview is that people have been murdered, he suspects, to protect this secret. That is one hell of an allegation. And at some stage, he's going to have to put up the evidence to prove that allegation. He's obviously spoken to people on the inside in the program who've told him this."
},
{
"end_time": 6964.582,
"index": 260,
"start_time": 6936.169,
"text": " My understanding is that he has testified about this in secret to the Congress. My understanding is that he's also come forward to the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security about this. Now, what's interesting is, is the Congress going to do its job and ask the questions that need to be asked to investigate that? Is there the political will at both congressional and senatorial level to actually push in a public way for this to be made public?"
},
{
"end_time": 6987.551,
"index": 261,
"start_time": 6965.265,
"text": " I'm not sure that it is. We live in such dangerous times. We've teetered in the last 24, 48 hours on the edge of a horrible confrontation in Russia that could have resulted in civil war in Russia. Either way, even though Putin's a thug, it would have been a very bad solution to have open warfare on Russian national territory."
},
{
"end_time": 7012.363,
"index": 262,
"start_time": 6987.79,
"text": " We're looking at the moment of at the likelihood that there's going to be an intervention if it can't be negotiated to stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon before the end of this year. I don't see how that can be avoided. Military conflict will have to happen unless a negotiated settlement can occur. There is no way Israel or the US are going to allow any kind of nuclear bomb to be developed by Iran."
},
{
"end_time": 7041.971,
"index": 263,
"start_time": 7013.148,
"text": " You've got the continuing nut job in North Korea with his wacky ICBM trials, where he's trying to demonstrate a capacity to launch ICBMs at the continental United States. And then you've got China, you've got the ever present risk of China. And, you know, I'm being told routinely by officials in my government and in the US government that it's only a matter of time before we're at war with China. 18 to 24 months is the time scale that I'm being told."
},
{
"end_time": 7067.073,
"index": 264,
"start_time": 7042.637,
"text": " God forbid, why in hell's name do we think that we can win a war with China? I do not know. But in the context of all of this, do you think the Congress is going to devote a lot of time and resources and energy to pushing for a hugely embarrassing expose to be revealed of criminal corruption inside the military and intelligence establishment?"
},
{
"end_time": 7092.346,
"index": 265,
"start_time": 7067.483,
"text": " Concealing an alleged crash retrieval and reverse engineering program involving retrieved non-human technology for the last 80 years? I don't think so. In other words, as important as we find it, we're like, this is the most important subject. The government's like, you don't know how close to annihilation we are from other sources. It's not the most. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking all the time to people in"
},
{
"end_time": 7122.602,
"index": 266,
"start_time": 7093.114,
"text": " the US government who genuinely want this issue out. But in the scheme of things, they're more focused quite legitimately on making sure that Ukraine has enough has artillery shells to be able to take out the command structure of the Russian government. I mean, I don't think UAPs are as big a priority as they should be. And that's the tragedy because as David Grush admitted to me in his interview,"
},
{
"end_time": 7147.534,
"index": 267,
"start_time": 7123.336,
"text": " Actually, I don't think a lot of this is in the so far broadcast interview, but he's deeply skeptical about the reasons why we went for war in Iraq and Afghanistan. A lot of good men and women have died. They've given their lives for a conflict in the Middle East that was of dubious provenance. Why? I mean, what benefit was derived from fighting that war?"
},
{
"end_time": 7177.056,
"index": 268,
"start_time": 7148.217,
"text": " Imagine if the trillions of dollars that were expended on the Middle Eastern conflict had instead been expended on a Manhattan style project where there was collaborative science between men and women in science from all over the world to develop energy technologies and propulsion systems that could revolutionize human civilization. That's what people are talking about. Now, I don't know for sure that that technology exists because I haven't seen it"
},
{
"end_time": 7207.005,
"index": 269,
"start_time": 7177.637,
"text": " But I have spoken to people who've told me that it does exist. I have spoken to people who've urged me to push for the public disclosure of the existence of this technology. And that's one of the reasons why David Grush has come forward. He's the first of many, but those other witnesses are watching on and they're seeing how David Grush gets treated. If he's treated badly, if he's treated, if he's treated peremptorily and dismissed, then the world doesn't deserve to know, frankly."
},
{
"end_time": 7237.432,
"index": 270,
"start_time": 7207.688,
"text": " And I mean, I appeal to your, I mean, one of the things I love about your show, Kurt, is you get a phenomenally well-informed audience. You have highly intelligent people, mainly from science, but also thought leaders who are listening to your show. And they understand that you give people like me the time to explain. And I don't know if I can begin to convey the depth of emotion and frustration that good science oriented people feel."
},
{
"end_time": 7266.152,
"index": 271,
"start_time": 7238.336,
"text": " that they can't talk publicly about what they know that's being concealed right now. Maybe they're lying to me. Maybe the many people that I've spoken to have all contrived to lie to me. Maybe it's just a massive disinformation program. And maybe the whole US Congress has been misled to the extent that they now believe credulously that there might be things of non-Earth origin held within private aerospace. I suspect there is."
},
{
"end_time": 7295.862,
"index": 272,
"start_time": 7266.903,
"text": " And imagine the consequences for the world if that's true. Imagine if, for example, there is a technological discovery to be made that could make fossil fuels redundant overnight. If that exists. And if these technologies exist, as they appear to do, this is the frightening thing about this is this dissonance between what we know"
},
{
"end_time": 7324.019,
"index": 273,
"start_time": 7296.152,
"text": " The fact that this technology clearly exists, even Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of Arrow, is begrudgingly admitting that these metallic spheres are anomalous and that he cannot explain them and there's no explanation for how they're manipulating themselves under their own control when they've got no visible means of propulsion. You've got that. Something is doing things we cannot explain. Right. And yet there is this credulous media acceptance"
},
{
"end_time": 7351.459,
"index": 274,
"start_time": 7324.957,
"text": " The continuing disinformation program that is run now for 60 to 70 years that we should just accept the glib assertions of the Pentagon that arrow has no credible evidence to support evidence of ET. Well, for one arrow wouldn't know because it's not set up to do that job. It's not set up to proactively investigate. If you want to know this story, if you want to get to the truth, you have to do what Dave crushed is."
},
{
"end_time": 7369.599,
"index": 275,
"start_time": 7351.971,
"text": " He kicked doors in, he knocked on doors, he tracked down people, he did proactive investigation. That's why what he did is different. And that's why if we're talking about intelligence sources that are being given credibility by the mainstream media,"
},
{
"end_time": 7391.834,
"index": 276,
"start_time": 7370.077,
"text": " Don't give credibility to the allegations of an anonymous source like Curveball who any reasonable investigator back in 2003 could have found was a put up by the INC. Did they find out who Curveball was by the way? Yeah, they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a story that really hasn't been told. I mean, I'm fascinated by this story because like a lot of Australian journalists, I was briefed by our intelligence community."
},
{
"end_time": 7405.845,
"index": 277,
"start_time": 7392.227,
"text": " about how we should accept the assurances of the American government that this source was impeccable and that they were providing red hot intelligence from right within the WMD program within Saddam Hussein's government and military."
},
{
"end_time": 7422.773,
"index": 278,
"start_time": 7406.357,
"text": " It turned out it was a lie. It was a fabrication pushed by Ahmed Chalabi in the Iraqi National Congress to push America to go to war in Iraq. And essentially what it did, you know who had benefited? The Iranians. And that's why essentially Iraq is now a proxy state of Iran."
},
{
"end_time": 7446.067,
"index": 279,
"start_time": 7423.609,
"text": " Nobody's thought about this. OK, I don't know much about the media and Ross, you were at least steeped in it. So why isn't it that when you get some report from the government, when you're telling it to people, to the public, you don't say that this is the case, rather you say this comes from the government. By the way, the government has been truthful in the past, some not so truthful. So take it with a grain of salt. Here's what they say."
},
{
"end_time": 7471.903,
"index": 280,
"start_time": 7446.613,
"text": " Okay, so when the government puts up a press release as Susan Goff from the Pentagon has said that Arrow has no credible evidence of ET or whatever it is she said, why does the media not do the analysis that I'm suggesting it should be doing, which is, okay, she spoke there for Arrow, but what about the Pentagon? What about the entire intelligence community? What about Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence?"
},
{
"end_time": 7481.51,
"index": 281,
"start_time": 7472.261,
"text": " Mr. Grush makes the direct allegation in my interview that he personally provided a copy of his complaint to the DNI, to Avril Haines."
},
{
"end_time": 7505.418,
"index": 282,
"start_time": 7482.278,
"text": " Why has nobody gone to her and said, oh, DNI, by the way, there's a guy called Dave Grush. He's made allegations to the inspectors general and also to two of the main oversight committees for the intelligence community in Congress. He's alleging there are aliens. There's a non-human intelligence. He's alleging you've recovered non-human technology and bodies. He's alleging that people have been murdered to cover up this secret. Now,"
},
{
"end_time": 7527.654,
"index": 283,
"start_time": 7506.442,
"text": " Okay, it's a big ontological shock to ask that question. And if you're a journalist and you've got the DNI Avril Haines in front of you, you take a big gulp before you ask. But by golly, you should be asking the question. And when Corrine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary, was asked the same question the other day, and she ducked past and said, you'll have to ask the Pentagon about that."
},
{
"end_time": 7551.084,
"index": 284,
"start_time": 7528.148,
"text": " Why did the press gallery, the White House press corps, just let her get away with that? Why did not one journalist in the room not stand up and say, no, excuse me, we need to know. We're the White House press corps. Our job is to find out and report on what the president knows. Has the president sought a briefing on Mr. Grush's allegations? What is the president's response to Mr. Grush's allegations?"
},
{
"end_time": 7577.022,
"index": 285,
"start_time": 7551.493,
"text": " Was Jake Sullivan at a secret meeting in the Congress where some of these issues regarding crash retrievals were discussed? Has the national security advisor provided a report to the president on this issue? That's the sort of investigative journalism that needs to be happening here. And I think what the American public, what the world needs to be asking is why those questions aren't being asked."
},
{
"end_time": 7599.48,
"index": 286,
"start_time": 7577.5,
"text": " This isn't some wacky conspiracy theory. We're way beyond that now. As I said at the beginning of this conversation two hours ago, we're now over three weeks into David Grush's allegations and the Pentagon, the intelligence community, nobody has laid a glove on his credibility. Everybody, Colonel Carnell,"
},
{
"end_time": 7629.445,
"index": 287,
"start_time": 7599.787,
"text": " Jonathan Gray, the guy who uses the pseudonym from Nasik and Christopher Mellon, three independent witnesses have verified to his credibility on the issue of crash retrievals and reverse engineering. Why, in the face of that multiple corroboration, has no one in the US national media then followed it up and gone, you know what, that is a good question. Why can't the president be asked this? Why can't the director of national intelligence be asked these questions?"
},
{
"end_time": 7655.435,
"index": 288,
"start_time": 7629.753,
"text": " Since when did the US national media, especially in light of the fact that they were lied to and deceived at the time of the last Gulf War with false source intelligence, why can't they now go back and ask the White House the truth of these claims? That's the only way that this will ever change when the mainstream media picks up the ball and runs with it. And frankly, I'm not confident they will."
},
{
"end_time": 7668.183,
"index": 289,
"start_time": 7655.879,
"text": " I've called the New York Times and the Washington Post gutless cowards for not running with this and they are, they are gutless cowards and it's because frankly they don't want to offend their sources."
},
{
"end_time": 7697.534,
"index": 290,
"start_time": 7668.66,
"text": " because in defense intelligence. It's not because they think that the public is going to say, hey, I can't believe you're taking this seriously. And then they'll feel like they'll get ridiculed. But is that is that really the responsibility of the media? Should the media really be looking at whether or not the public's going to believe them or not? It's not the media's role. The media's role is without fear or favor to investigate allegations, to test the evidence and to put the claims to the people in authority."
},
{
"end_time": 7727.824,
"index": 291,
"start_time": 7698.148,
"text": " Even now, we're getting on towards a month since David Grush made his allegations and went public. There has been no attempt by the Washington Post, the New York Times, the LA Times, the Chicago Sun Times, the Boston Globe. None of those great newspapers of the United States have sought to put these allegations to the people in power. I just think the world needs to ask why. What's going on behind the scenes? Why are they so frightened of asking the question?"
},
{
"end_time": 7750.981,
"index": 292,
"start_time": 7728.387,
"text": " Why is it that when the issue was raised in the White House press room and the White House press secretary was asked, you know, what's the story about these claims about aliens? Why is it that the White House press secretary was allowed to get away with just passing the issue and flicking it across to the Pentagon? Why is that satisfactory? I don't understand."
},
{
"end_time": 7778.439,
"index": 293,
"start_time": 7751.476,
"text": " And the media that I've grown up with, the kind of... It could also just be that they're not as informed as you to know, hey, Aero isn't supposed to be the place that has the knowledge of this. No, Kurt, the problem is that much of the mainstream media is working towards an operant prejudice. They're not operating it objectively. And it's sad. They're operating according to the prejudices that are dictated to them by the sources they speak to."
},
{
"end_time": 7807.176,
"index": 294,
"start_time": 7779.36,
"text": " And, you know, I've sat around the lunch tables and the quiet little chats over a glass of wine with intelligence officials. I know how it works. They delicately put down poison for propositions. And it's made very clear that if you're going in that direction, you're going the wrong way. Can you give me an example? Oh, well, you know, at the time of the last Gulf War, if people had actually investigated whether or not there was any truth to the allegations that Iraq was involved in"
},
{
"end_time": 7829.343,
"index": 295,
"start_time": 7807.602,
"text": " making weapons of mass destruction. I mean there was evidence for example that one of the things that was relied upon was claims that an Australian company was involved unknowingly in the production of aluminium tubing that it was suspected was being made to such a high level that it was capable of being used in a centrifuge process to process uranium."
},
{
"end_time": 7853.746,
"index": 296,
"start_time": 7830.179,
"text": " And it turned out there were real doubts about that evidence and the people who were in the company involved were genuinely shocked that this allegation was made. And I was one of the journals that was basically being approached and asked to investigate that issue. But essentially the ability for us to investigate that was drowned out by the assertion from the US intelligence community that they had rock solid intelligence."
},
{
"end_time": 7884.002,
"index": 297,
"start_time": 7854.104,
"text": " I mean, that's what I'm saying, is that if journalists had gone and investigated the aluminium tubes allegations as they sought to do, they would not get invited to the next press briefing."
},
{
"end_time": 7913.404,
"index": 298,
"start_time": 7884.394,
"text": " For the defense department, you know, you'd get cut off the drip. And one of the worst things that can happen for a newspaper that's competing with stories with other newspapers or a TV station for that matter is you don't get invited to be, say, the embedded correspondent with, I don't know, General Schwarzkopf or whoever the commanding general is. You don't get invited inside the tent. And so one of the issues for media organizations is access. You only get these stories if you have access."
},
{
"end_time": 7939.991,
"index": 299,
"start_time": 7913.882,
"text": " Unfortunately, I think especially in the last 20 or so years since 9-11, one of the other stories, for example, that I find fascinating because I've done a lot of stories on privacy and surveillance is the revelation of illegal wiretapping by the National Security Agency. That was a story that a lot of us knew about that was widely circulating."
},
{
"end_time": 7968.37,
"index": 300,
"start_time": 7940.52,
"text": " And the media were terrified of touching it. And there were attempts to shut the media down through the FISA legislation. There was an attempt to meddle with the editorial direction of news departments. There were really strong heavies put on the media in the US to not report that story. It's been well told. I mean, I can't name off the top of my head the correspondents who were responsible for eventually breaking the story."
},
{
"end_time": 7989.855,
"index": 301,
"start_time": 7968.814,
"text": " But one of the major newspapers eventually courageously revealed the story and indeed went on to win the Pulitzer. But the the simple fact is that there was a real pushback that you know you can't report this because to do this would be to compromise national security you know to reveal extensive illegal illegal wiretapping is to compromise national security and it was rubbish."
},
{
"end_time": 8018.746,
"index": 302,
"start_time": 7990.452,
"text": " Essentially what had happened was there was an over misinterpretation of the intelligence laws that wrongly, in the opinion of the intelligence bosses, gave them the power to do the warrantless tapping that they were doing. And the only reason that that was stopped and brought under proper regulation was because there was media exposé of it happening. And sadly, I think that's what's going to have to happen here. There's going to have to be media exposé eventually of"
},
{
"end_time": 8047.346,
"index": 303,
"start_time": 8019.275,
"text": " I suspect a leak from Congress. I think that's what will probably happen at some stage. Somebody from the gang of eight or somebody from one of the congressional committees will eventually not be able to control themselves and reveal, yeah, actually, you know what? Grush told the truth. But until then, I think the media is going to be a willing lick spittle in continuing the coverup. I think it's convinced itself that it's all bullshit and they've never devoted the resources to properly investigate it."
},
{
"end_time": 8075.964,
"index": 304,
"start_time": 8048.251,
"text": " And that's the tragedy. The tragedy is that there is a default ridicule and taboo that is attached to the subject of UAPs. You know, if you even mention to an editor that you want to do a UFO story, this is kind of ironic grin that comes across their face. And it's a default stigma. And frankly, in the face of the enormous amount of evidence, most notably the Senate Intelligence Bill that refers to objects of non-Earth origin,"
},
{
"end_time": 8100.265,
"index": 305,
"start_time": 8076.34,
"text": " Earlier I asked about if the Americans or anyone has the ability to control the craft, forget about reverse engineering. I didn't hear an answer. Oh, well, that's speculation. I don't know for sure. I mean,"
},
{
"end_time": 8130.299,
"index": 306,
"start_time": 8100.64,
"text": " On one analysis, it's claimed that the US has not been able to reverse engineer much at all successfully. And that's the line that I think on his own admission, Dr. Eric Davis, who's investigated the crash retrieval program, passed on to Alejandro Rojas in interviews that he did about four or five years ago. I think he claimed, for example, that it had been so unsuccessful that back in 1989, the program was actually shut down for a while or put on hold."
},
{
"end_time": 8159.07,
"index": 307,
"start_time": 8131.271,
"text": " Other people tell me that there's been quite notable successes. And I think the reason for the dissonance, the reason for the disagreement about what has actually happened is that we may in fact be talking about, like we use the term, the legacy program. But I think part of the problem is in my line of work, we have a saying, always assume a screw up before a conspiracy. And I'm inclined to believe there's been a screw up here."
},
{
"end_time": 8187.449,
"index": 308,
"start_time": 8160.145,
"text": " I suspect, I don't know for sure, I suspect that from the early 50s onwards, the decision was made that the analysis of these objects, these craft was best done by private enterprise oriented companies, big aerospace companies that had the resources and the technical know-how to do the work. This is that divesting that you're referring to earlier. They divested these objects, these craft into their control."
},
{
"end_time": 8216.852,
"index": 309,
"start_time": 8188.063,
"text": " And I suspect there's been a screw up. I suspect the US government didn't write contracts. They didn't want to put anything in writing. I don't think they gave themselves any IP, any intellectual property control over that material. And I think this is part of the problem. This is why this legislation is now necessary, because the Congress has revealed from witnesses that it's quite likely that the military has no idea what has been"
},
{
"end_time": 8243.114,
"index": 310,
"start_time": 8217.534,
"text": " done or achieved inside private aerospace. I've had allegations that I have not been able to confirm put to me that certain companies, notably British Aerospace, have actually made notable achievements in developing this technology. But I haven't been able to verify that because of course they're private aerospace companies. They have a formidable ability to use private military and intelligence contractors to cover their trail."
},
{
"end_time": 8273.319,
"index": 311,
"start_time": 8243.422,
"text": " They're not accountable to government or government agencies. There's no ability to scrutinize them unless you have people on the inside speaking out, which I have, but I'm unfortunately not able to talk about them in much detail because they're too terrified. But the simple fact is I think it's possible that there are programs ongoing in private aerospace that are actually not within the knowledge of many of the people in the military intelligence community who supposedly have carriage of this."
},
{
"end_time": 8301.988,
"index": 312,
"start_time": 8273.951,
"text": " I suspect it's a screw up. I suspect that what happened was over the years, it became formalized that we would entrust these private aerospace companies to do the work. Nobody ever thought, gee, who owns this technology? Gee, shouldn't we be monitoring them and letting Congress know so that we can report to Congress the success of any efforts to develop this technology? I don't think that happened. That's why"
},
{
"end_time": 8330.145,
"index": 313,
"start_time": 8302.551,
"text": " Always assume a screw up before a conspiracy. That's my mantra. And I think if you assume a screw up before a conspiracy, that's what's happened here. I don't think these private aerospace companies think they've done anything wrong. Yeah, sure. I suspect people probably have been killed and hurt and intimidated and threatened along the way to cover this up. Private enterprise is capable of doing terrible things. So is government. But"
},
{
"end_time": 8360.196,
"index": 314,
"start_time": 8331.032,
"text": " I don't know that government necessarily knows about this. And this is why Congress is now trying to get to the truth. And so to those in the mainstream media who have peremptorily dismissed this all these years and gone, oh, there's nothing in this. My sources and intelligence are telling me there's nothing in this. Just laugh about it. Just ignore it. When it comes up in press conferences, titter slightly and follow along with everyone else and just laugh about it."
},
{
"end_time": 8384.991,
"index": 315,
"start_time": 8361.493,
"text": " Some of these journals just need to grow a spine and start asking hard questions. And I think sooner or later, what's it called? The truth embargo will break. It's a great term. I like it. It's a good name. The truth embargo. I think there really is. I think there's a knowing reluctance to ask the question. And I think the reason why is because at the bottom of it, it's a stuffer up."
},
{
"end_time": 8414.889,
"index": 316,
"start_time": 8385.384,
"text": " More often than not, it's not a bunch of gatekeepers actively with full knowledge of the cover up, trying to cover it up. More often than not, it's a bunch of two bit generals and flunky intelligence officials who frankly realize belatedly that they've presided over a very shambolic assigning of technology into private aerospace. And they're terrified about the consequences for the US if it comes out that the US actually doesn't own this technology."
},
{
"end_time": 8441.374,
"index": 317,
"start_time": 8415.725,
"text": " You know, we've probably devoted scientists and material resources to help investigate it for years, but there's never been a lawyer who's actually sat down and gone. So guys, who actually owns this stuff? And that's where we're at now. That's the unloading of the craft of the tech. But what about the bodies? Did they also unload that? And then who would they give that to? Good question. Don't you think Congress should be asking that question?"
},
{
"end_time": 8470.828,
"index": 318,
"start_time": 8441.852,
"text": " And don't you think if somebody of the reputation and caliber and undoubted reputation of David Grush comes forward and makes an allegation like that, why is it legitimate for even journalists investigating this story to not even mention the bodies? You know, some of my colleagues have said that we shouldn't talk about bodies. Why? I mean, if these things were piloted, that means somebody was piloting them."
},
{
"end_time": 8499.735,
"index": 319,
"start_time": 8471.101,
"text": " What happened to those entities, to those beings, if they exist? It could be autopilot though. It could be. But Mr. Grush is alleging that there have been bodies recovered. Now, he said that under oath. So has he lied to the inspectors general? Has he lied to the Congress? The consequences for him are enormous if he's lied. Why would he lie like that?"
},
{
"end_time": 8527.995,
"index": 320,
"start_time": 8500.759,
"text": " Think about it. I mean, seriously, you've got a very courageous, I happen to think David Grush is one of the most courageous whistleblowers to come forward in recent American history. It's like, it's as if deep throat had gone public. You know, at the time he, we now know he was the, he was the deputy director of the FBI, but it's as if deep throat had gone public and said, I'm alleging that the president has been involved in a criminal conspiracy."
},
{
"end_time": 8558.2,
"index": 321,
"start_time": 8529.104,
"text": " And now you've got the situation where are we to assume that the Washington Post and the New York Times journalists who would have gone, let's just ignore him. He's only he's only the deputy director of the FBI, you know, deep throats. It's my understanding about Gresham, the alien bodies that he never saw them. He's saying that I was told about them or that I saw a picture of him. So he could say under oath that I believe it to be the case that there's only he has he has said what he has said."
},
{
"end_time": 8584.002,
"index": 322,
"start_time": 8558.507,
"text": " What he has said to me is I have a strong suspicion that people have been hurt or murdered. Well, that's the answer that he gave in implicit acknowledgement of the question that I put to him. And I think that should be investigated, don't you? What are we frightened of? If it's not true, it's not true and send Dave Grush to jail for the next 20 years for lying under oath. But why"
},
{
"end_time": 8613.217,
"index": 323,
"start_time": 8585.23,
"text": " Don't you see the dissonance between what he's saying publicly and exposing the risks to himself and people in mainstream media who call themselves journalists and more importantly the policy leaders in Congress, the politicians, they've all run like little chickens from these allegations. Nobody very rarely has anybody spoken out. Very few congressmen or women or"
},
{
"end_time": 8642.449,
"index": 324,
"start_time": 8613.575,
"text": " Senators have actually spoken out publicly on this issue. Larry McGuire is so that's Canadian is an MP. Larry McGuire hasn't spoken beyond much but what he said in his letter. Why has nobody put him up on national TV and said Mr. McGuire let's be clear is what you are saying based on stuff you've got from reading a book or have you got more solid evidence that you've acquired because of your own investigations and I suspect it's the latter I'm told it's the latter."
},
{
"end_time": 8666.596,
"index": 325,
"start_time": 8643.49,
"text": " Why are nobody asking those questions? Don't you see? I mean, this is the fundamental problem is there is a willful failure by media, investigative researchers, politicians to ask the question, why? Why is there that willful failure?"
},
{
"end_time": 8694.531,
"index": 326,
"start_time": 8667.227,
"text": " So Ross about the leaked that you said that there are some leaked videos or leaked evidence or I'm so sorry could I'm not sure what you're referring to the can you be more specific? Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. In the beginning, when we were talking about a complaint is like not that many people from the government come out and there's not that much evidence that's leaked from the government from something that's as large as this. Okay. Okay. I mean, historically, during the course of"
},
{
"end_time": 8712.756,
"index": 327,
"start_time": 8694.991,
"text": " What Mr. Grush alleges has been a continuing disinformation operation on UAPs. There are people who have come forward and I know interestingly enough Stephen Greer did his disclosure project thing the other day at the National Press Club. How do you feel about that? Well, it's interesting."
},
{
"end_time": 8738.746,
"index": 328,
"start_time": 8713.029,
"text": " I was inclined because I don't have a very high opinion of Mr Greer, to be honest. I think on occasion he has misrepresented his communications with government officials and made them sound like briefings. For example, he's claimed to have briefed a former CIA director and I've engaged with people who've told me the full story and I don't believe he did a briefing of a CIA director at all."
},
{
"end_time": 8766.237,
"index": 329,
"start_time": 8739.394,
"text": " I don't know why he does this because there are people in the Congress who've told me that some of the witnesses that Stephen Greer has provided to the Congress in secret who've come forward with evidence about the program have indeed been highly credible witnesses and they've been taken very, very seriously indeed. I just wish there was more"
},
{
"end_time": 8794.428,
"index": 330,
"start_time": 8766.92,
"text": " Quality control with what Mr. Greer says as he comes through with his claims. I don't want to buy a fight with Stephen Greer, but I think on occasion he has either inadvertently or otherwise misrepresented the way in which he's engaged with government. But I do think that separately from Mr. Greer, they have periodically publicly, and I'm not going to list them all here because then people will realize who I'm talking about."
},
{
"end_time": 8817.432,
"index": 331,
"start_time": 8794.804,
"text": " But they have people periodically bobbed up who have given evidence of their involvement in alleged crash retrieval operations, for example. And there's never really been, if you look at those cases, a satisfactory resolution of whether they're telling the truth or not, because they're clearly people with security clearances. They've clearly worked in the military units that they say they've worked in."
},
{
"end_time": 8847.261,
"index": 332,
"start_time": 8818.234,
"text": " And there's never a resolution of whether or not they're telling the truth or not. Because of course, the only arbiter that can actually adjudicate whether they're telling the truth or not is the Defense Department, which if what Mr. Grush is alleging is true, there are individuals within the Defense Department who have no interest at all in letting this public information out. There's no interest at all in publicizing this information. So that's my problem is that, yes, periodically through history,"
},
{
"end_time": 8872.295,
"index": 333,
"start_time": 8847.927,
"text": " I mean, if you go right back to the days of the first director of the CIA, Roscoe Hillencotter, Roscoe Hillencotter came out publicly and set up his own UFO investigation organization because he was convinced there was a cover up the head of the CIA. You know, people have forgotten their history in America. They've been"
},
{
"end_time": 8892.756,
"index": 334,
"start_time": 8872.961,
"text": " There's a lovely guy on Twitter, Richard Gildrick, and he's been doing trawling of old media reports and going right back to the forties and the fifties. There were frequent allegations of recovered flying saucers that featured in the media with first person witnesses."
},
{
"end_time": 8923.183,
"index": 335,
"start_time": 8893.695,
"text": " Very little active work was done to investigate those because of course by that stage the taboo had been introduced. Media were being taught to ridicule it and the public was being taught that you know if there was anything real there it was national security and not to be talked about and people were shut down. I think the evidence is overwhelming that witnesses have been intimidated that they've been threatened and indeed if Mr Grush is telling the truth that witnesses have been killed. I mean that's a horrendous allegation"
},
{
"end_time": 8945.282,
"index": 336,
"start_time": 8923.746,
"text": " Again, why shouldn't that be being properly investigated? He's called their bluff. I mean, think about it. As a journalist, what do you do when the government's like, I can't tell you it's for reasons of national security? Like, what do you do? What do you say to that? Well, privately, I say, well, why? I mean, seriously, why would the fact that somebody's allegedly been murdered to protect a secret be a national security secret?"
},
{
"end_time": 8974.155,
"index": 337,
"start_time": 8945.64,
"text": " Can they not just say the reasons for that are also secrets? I don't know how it works. Well, I mean, do we glibly accept that? I mean, I guess I'd be asking and I have done on occasion. You know, I've asked for the reasons why something is classified and often I've accepted the reasons why it's classified. It's a matter of negotiation and trust often. But this is the problem is that a lot of media"
},
{
"end_time": 9002.517,
"index": 338,
"start_time": 8974.343,
"text": " Lively accept what's told to them by a security official. I'll look, you know, this is classified. Can't talk about it. Can't talk about it. But, you know, if this is a government program and if it is a high national security program, there is a possibility that murdering people may be legal under the intelligence laws of the day. I mean, spies are allowed to kill, you know, in the public interest. We've killed people through our intelligence services to protect national security interests."
},
{
"end_time": 9027.927,
"index": 339,
"start_time": 9002.892,
"text": " Have people been killed? Was it legal? Don't know. But it should be investigated. People don't understand that, you know, if there is indeed this incredible, awesome technology that is being secreted by the US government, if that's true, I'm not justifying this, but I would certainly as a security official be trying to protect that secret and to stop the Russians and the Chinese from getting access to it. Are you afraid for your life?"
},
{
"end_time": 9054.889,
"index": 340,
"start_time": 9028.37,
"text": " No, no, not all. I mean, I accept that I'm probably under surveillance. I know that I am at times. But you haven't been told, hey, stop talking about it or some men in black or some other. No, no, no. And I think they know I would go public if they did. I mean, the moment any threat like that emerged, I'd make my damn just to make sure the world knew about it. So no intimidation, no harassment."
},
{
"end_time": 9073.951,
"index": 341,
"start_time": 9055.384,
"text": " No, but the witnesses that I'm talking to have been intimidated. They have been harassed and they've been told on some occasions that they would be murdered if they spoke out about it. I imagine Grash is afraid. Probably he feels good that he feels like he's doing the right thing. I don't know. I don't know how that works. Neither do I. Neither do I, my friend. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 9099.206,
"index": 342,
"start_time": 9074.326,
"text": " Okay, to wrap up, you've been with us for quite some time. There's been talk from Leslie Kane and John Ramirez that something's occurring at the late 2020s, 2027, 2029. I don't know. I just know that these years have been set out like some significant event is going to happen. What do you know about that? Look, there are people who have suggested to me that there are"
},
{
"end_time": 9124.701,
"index": 343,
"start_time": 9099.667,
"text": " Apocalyptic events like catastrophic, one of the ones I heard at one stage was the reversal of the poles, and I don't know why that would cause any calamitous geological changes, but it was suggested to me that there might be a calamitous movement of the Earth's crust. I was referred to the so-called Adam and Eve story that's apparently in part in a redacted form in the CIA library."
},
{
"end_time": 9150.572,
"index": 344,
"start_time": 9125.316,
"text": " But 2027 was mentioned at one time. I've heard other dates in the 30s. I don't know. I've got no idea. I have no leads that make me feel strongly that this is true. I think it's speculative. I just don't know. You'd have to ask Leslie or John Ramirez. And on John, look, to be honest, I've spoken to John."
},
{
"end_time": 9179.787,
"index": 345,
"start_time": 9151.067,
"text": " It's never entirely clear to me how much of what John is talking about is sourced to his past role as a GS-14 or GS-15 in the CIA, a senior public official, and how much of what he's doing is speculating at almost like a hobby post job. I mean, I think I'd like to see John pinned down more. I've actually asked him for an interview and he declined and"
},
{
"end_time": 9208.012,
"index": 346,
"start_time": 9180.35,
"text": " said that he was going back into working in the top secret role somewhere else. And I've been amused to see that he's subsequently gone on and spoken to other people. And the offer is still there for John to speak to me because John, if you're watching, go on to know. I would I would like to talk to him on need to know because I'd like to clarify with him whether what he's talking about is derived from his CIA experience or whether it's derived from"
},
{
"end_time": 9233.046,
"index": 347,
"start_time": 9208.695,
"text": " For your NewsNation story with David Grush, how do you feel it went and what would you do differently? I'm happy we got the story out there and I admire and respect NewsNation for having the courage and the decisiveness to actually run the story because"
},
{
"end_time": 9246.476,
"index": 348,
"start_time": 9233.746,
"text": " It was line ball, frankly, for any US TV network to make the decision to run the story and they're not a top string TV network. They're a new aspiring news network."
},
{
"end_time": 9275.725,
"index": 349,
"start_time": 9247.125,
"text": " Um, and I think it's done them no end of good. They've had a massive increase in their ratings as a result of the story. Oh yes. Okay. I thought you're saying it's done them no good. Okay. No, no, no, no. It's done them a world of good. Um, they're really happy that they've done the story and they're now aware that UAPs are a story that people are interested in. And this is the thing that I find fascinating is that there's a wisdom of the crowd here that"
},
{
"end_time": 9301.886,
"index": 350,
"start_time": 9276.237,
"text": " The media executives in mainstream media, they pompously dictate what you and I get to read, and they assign the op-ed writers to write the nonsense, ridiculing articles that belittle the subject of UAPs. There's that mantra, that trope that runs through how mainstream media organizations traditionally deal with the subject of UAPs."
},
{
"end_time": 9329.019,
"index": 351,
"start_time": 9302.568,
"text": " But what I'm fascinated by as a journal that's worked in that area is how social media programs like yours are superseding the role that used to be played by mainstream media. I mean, you've given me here over two and a half hours to talk expensively, but I'm grateful for it because I think the public need and want long form analysis of the UAP issue."
},
{
"end_time": 9358.217,
"index": 352,
"start_time": 9329.428,
"text": " And NewsNation did that. They created an hour of prime time TV. They've got the full interview with Dave Grush, which I think runs about three and a half hours. I'd probably edit it down to a tighter two hours. I'd like to run the fuller interview so that people can see the full extensive questions and answers that I put to Dave. And it would be my hope that in some format we can run that at some stage. Yeah, what hold that back?"
},
{
"end_time": 9386.493,
"index": 353,
"start_time": 9359.582,
"text": " Good question. You'd have to ask News Nation. I'm hoping to be able to run it or a version of a Dave Grush interview on Need to Know.today at some stage, if they're not going to, because I do think there's more material that ought properly to be poured into the public domain. And I think also people want to see Grush being pressed in the way that I did press him in the interview. I think in the News Nation story,"
},
{
"end_time": 9406.186,
"index": 354,
"start_time": 9387.056,
"text": " I did a fantastic job really professional job really proud to have been working with them and i hope i can continue to work with them in the future. The one thing i would have loved to have seen more of is the competitive interviewing and pressing of mr grush that we showed in the way that we challenged him during the interview."
},
{
"end_time": 9435.435,
"index": 355,
"start_time": 9406.493,
"text": " I think people would understand more about why I find Mr. Grush a highly credible witness if they could see the question and answer and analysis that we do in the course of the interview. And that's always a frustration with TV because network TV always wants to put things into bite-sized chunks that fit around the advertisements because ultimately all news is is the stuff you wrap around advertisements. It's all about selling"
},
{
"end_time": 9461.391,
"index": 356,
"start_time": 9435.998,
"text": " selling cornflakes. But the simple fact is I think the audience wants more and I'm aspiring and hoping to be able to provide them in some format with more. What a lot of people don't realize, Kurt, is I laughed just recently because somebody with malign intent created a Wikipedia entry for me where they said that Kultart"
},
{
"end_time": 9491.084,
"index": 357,
"start_time": 9461.852,
"text": " is making the claims that he's making in order to join the, quote, lucrative UAP lecture circuit with Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal. And it's hilarious because I have never earned a cent from any UAP lecture. And I really, as you know, I'm not being paid for this interview with you or I've given you nearly three hours of my time. And frankly, I don't expect to be. And the work that I do is largely unpaid."
},
{
"end_time": 9508.046,
"index": 358,
"start_time": 9491.51,
"text": " And I do this work in conjunction with an occasional day job that I do as an investigative reporter for Australian network television. And it's a hard gig. They don't care that you've had some choice words about the mainstream media?"
},
{
"end_time": 9528.643,
"index": 359,
"start_time": 9509.804,
"text": " I think they share my view. I mean, to be honest with you, I think most people in mainstream media are depressed about the way mainstream media is going. It's failing its audiences, dumbing down. It's frightened of long form analysis. And the irony is, as the Dave Grush interview showed, when you give people long form analysis, they love it."
},
{
"end_time": 9558.473,
"index": 360,
"start_time": 9528.882,
"text": " I will give you some questions to ask him about some of the physics claims he had."
},
{
"end_time": 9575.708,
"index": 361,
"start_time": 9559.121,
"text": " happy to do"
},
{
"end_time": 9600.247,
"index": 362,
"start_time": 9576.51,
"text": " You can imagine 4 and 5D space where what we experience is linear time ends up being a physical dimension in higher dimensional space where if you were living there you could translate across what we perceive as a linear flow. So there is a possibility that, and this is a theory here, I'm not saying this is 100% the case, but"
},
{
"end_time": 9618.336,
"index": 363,
"start_time": 9600.247,
"text": " I don't mean to pick apart, it just stands out. So he said, and I'm quoting, It's a well established, at least mathematically and based on empirical observation and analysis, that there are likely physical additional spatial dimensions. And you can imagine on 4 or 5D space, where what we experience as linear time ends up being a physical dimension for higher dimensional space."
},
{
"end_time": 9647.585,
"index": 364,
"start_time": 9618.592,
"text": " If we were living there, you could translate across what we perceive as a linear flow. And this is a theory here. I'm not saying this is 100% the case. Okay, so what's interesting? Firstly, it goes from this is a well established to then this is most likely to then this is a possibility to then this is a theory to then I'm not saying this is the case. And then secondly, event says it's well established mathematically. I don't think it's established mathematically or empirically that there are other physical dimensions. Also, it doesn't have anything to do with quantum mechanics. It's also false to say that"
},
{
"end_time": 9673.712,
"index": 365,
"start_time": 9647.585,
"text": " It's from a different dimension because we're a part of the same dimension. It's just a different value within that same dimension. Your time isn't a term used in physics unless dealing with computational complexity like calculating. That's why you should see the interview because I was pushing him at that point. I was basically saying, well, what are you talking about? Where are these aliens from? And he goes, they're not aliens. They're a non-human intelligence. And"
},
{
"end_time": 9692.944,
"index": 366,
"start_time": 9673.712,
"text": " And one of the things we talk about is we go into whether they've lived here on this planet all these years, and we get into the issue of whether they're actually on Earth-based intelligence, so they're not extraterrestrial at all, they're intra-terrestrial. And then"
},
{
"end_time": 9721.886,
"index": 367,
"start_time": 9693.319,
"text": " Okay. Now, thank you so much. My only question is like, I know that you spent so long with me and"
},
{
"end_time": 9732.039,
"index": 368,
"start_time": 9722.193,
"text": " I think this is the first podcast that you've done since that story. Well, it's a thank you and why like what do I do to deserve this? It's an honor for me."
},
{
"end_time": 9760.555,
"index": 369,
"start_time": 9732.892,
"text": " A KFC tale in the pursuit of flavor. The holidays were tricky for the Colonel. He loved people, but he also loved peace and quiet. So he cooked up KFC's 499 Chicken Pot Pie. Warm, flaky, with savory sauce and vegetables. It's a tender chicken-filled excuse to get some time to yourself and step away from decking the halls. Whatever that means. The Colonel lived so we could chicken. KFC's Chicken Pot Pie. The best 499 you'll spend this season."
},
{
"end_time": 9788.66,
"index": 370,
"start_time": 9760.555,
"text": " Look, I'm not pissing in your pocket here, Kurt, when I say that I love your show because you let people talk and you have an understanding of science because of your training in physics and you ask good questions. You've put me on the spot at times where you've asked me to justify what I've said. I like being put on the spot. It's fun. It's what journalists should do."
},
{
"end_time": 9801.578,
"index": 371,
"start_time": 9789.121,
"text": " The irony is it's a show like yours that's doing the job that major newspapers and television in mainstream should be doing. What's happening at the moment is we're seeing a shift"
},
{
"end_time": 9830.009,
"index": 372,
"start_time": 9802.585,
"text": " My daughters, God bless them, they don't watch TV news. My wife and I watch the six o'clock news every night, the TV news, and we like to see the network news, you know, and we know the news anchor, and we read the newspaper, and we're religious about following the news every day. But I think we're the last generation that are going to do that. One of my daughters told me she gets most of her news from TikTok, Instagram. I mean, I've had to learn."
},
{
"end_time": 9854.241,
"index": 373,
"start_time": 9830.435,
"text": " Robbie Williams, of all people, followed me on Instagram the other day and recommended me to his audience. And my daughter, who's a social media marketer, basically came to me and said, dad, Robbie Williams followed you. And I went, what does that mean? Sorry. And she went, it's huge. You know, you should use Instagram more. And I went, what's Instagram? You know, honestly, truly, I created an Instagram account years ago to basically monitor"
},
{
"end_time": 9884.582,
"index": 374,
"start_time": 9854.65,
"text": " Pictures of dogs that my wife sends me, but I have to admit, I've never really used it for news dissemination. And what fascinates me is that there's a younger generation that is impatient with mainstream media. They don't care about it anymore. They don't watch the news. They don't listen to network television or radio. And those news organizations are losing their audience. Like when I first started in network television, Australia is only a country of"
},
{
"end_time": 9912.415,
"index": 375,
"start_time": 9885.043,
"text": " 27 million people but one of the biggest stories I ever did was a corruption exposure and I think we got nearly three million views which was just massive huge chunk of the national audience and these days a really good rating is 500 000 views in network television and the reason why I think is because they're not doing the sort of stories that you and I are interested in"
},
{
"end_time": 9942.227,
"index": 376,
"start_time": 9912.756,
"text": " the kind of long form discursive analysis that you do. It's not for any coincidence that shows like yours are doing really well and drawing millions of views. It's because people are impatient with old style legacy media. All right, Ross, get some coffee. You go and have a good night's sleep, Kurt. I've kept you up way past your bedtime, man. Yeah, man. I never do a podcast this late, but for you, I'll wake up at 1 a.m. Take care, man."
},
{
"end_time": 9965.572,
"index": 377,
"start_time": 9942.807,
"text": " After this podcast over text, I asked Ross about the Indian situation with regard to UAPs, as this whole topic seems to be US-focused. Here's what Ross said, and I won't even attempt to do his accent. Hi Kurt, I've spoken to Indian and Pakistani officials and scientists, but they've confined what they've told me to admissions that they have witnessed craft and anomalous objects operating quote unquote intelligently"
},
{
"end_time": 9985.452,
"index": 378,
"start_time": 9965.572,
"text": " over known nuclear facilities, mainly weapons repositories. No one has indicated any willingness or government intention for disclosure, quote unquote, per se. But they're very open and willing to share. I think India is a verdant pasture for investigation. No one's funding such research. That's the simple issue."
},
{
"end_time": 10002.09,
"index": 379,
"start_time": 9985.572,
"text": " Okay thank you for watching this two maybe even three hour podcast with ross coldheart the time just flies by especially with ross and hopefully you enjoyed it i think you must have given that you've watched all the way till this point or perhaps you just skipped through because you love to see my face and who could blame you."
},
{
"end_time": 10030.418,
"index": 380,
"start_time": 10002.09,
"text": " There are just about seven quick announcements. Number one, you should know about the previous conversation with Ross on this channel. The link is in the description. Like I said before, in the intro, it's our most viewed podcast. In fact, it has almost two million hits. Number two, you should know about the UFO playlist. So we've spoken to Les Stroud, Avi Loeb, Kevin Knuth, Salvatore Pius, Jacques Vallee, Jeremy Korbel, Lou Elisando three times, Jeremy Korbel twice, Richard Dolan twice, actually, with the Tonanza."
},
{
"end_time": 10053.609,
"index": 381,
"start_time": 10030.418,
"text": " which is an 8-hour special. Thirdly, you should know that there's a video on the controversial history of quantum gravity. Most people don't know, but quantum gravity owes its development while general relativity, the renaissance of it,"
},
{
"end_time": 10060.913,
"index": 382,
"start_time": 10053.609,
"text": " always its development to anti gravity and interest in anti gravity with ufos as well by two private investors."
},
{
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"text": " Agnubansen and Roger Babson. It's a dark secret that most people don't know about, including many in the physics community. And so there's this 30 minute documentary on that subject. Fourthly, there's a moderately disputatious conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's either out now or it's about to be out in a couple of days with Neil and myself. Check it out. It's in the description. We talk about UFOs, AI, as well as the limitations of science or in Neil's eyes, the unlimitations of science. Fifthly,"
},
{
"end_time": 10105.367,
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"text": " There's an iTunes version of this podcast, a Spotify version. Basically any audio platform that you listen to podcasts from, there's going to be theories of everything. You just search it in case you want to re-listen. Many people, including myself, I learn the most when I re-watch or re-listen."
},
{
"end_time": 10131.834,
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"text": " And if you want to, then please re-listen on those places. Sixthly, there's now Toe merch. Theories of everything merch. There's only three weeks left as of this date. The end of June right now, 2023. This will end in the middle of July. We're closing it down. Some of the references. You can get to it by going to tinyurl.com slash Toe merch. Some of the references, you have to be a hardcore Toe listener to understand, like, dystocia. I agree with how you're agreeing with me. That one comes from John Vervecky."
},
{
"end_time": 10144.94,
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"text": " Thrust your toe. Trust your toe. Getting wet with Kurt. Don't talk to me or I'll bring up Hegel. True nobility is being coordinate free. That one comes from the crash course on physics that I had. It's a two hour crash course on all of theoretical physics, like as best as I could compress it."
},
{
"end_time": 10173.643,
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"start_time": 10145.162,
"text": " Then there's a toe hat. There's, I say, face space inorganically in everyday conversation. That one is something that I noticed plenty of people do. It's babbling all the way down. I have a toe fetish. Okay. I'm just a gym rat for toes. Yeah, that's something that I say because that's all I do is study for toes. I'm just a gym rat for toes. Got Abbie Genesis. The voices are back. Excellent. That one comes from Gary Nolan himself. So visit tinyurl.com slash toe merch and pick up your toe merch, any of the merch that you want. You also twinly support the podcast."
},
{
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"text": " Browse it, see if there's something that interests you. Seventhly, and lastly, there's the blacktoevault.com, the blacktoevault.com, which is an AI tool. Technically, it's an LLM, which was developed with the help of Dan Van Zandt, Daniel Van Zandt, and John Greenwald to query John's FOIA request database. You can visit the blacktoevault.com, but what I recommend you do instead is visit the link in the description, which is a few minutes long clip about the behind the scenes of the development of this tool."
},
{
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"text": " This will help you understand what it is and where it's going, what features will be added as this is just a first step. All right, that gets all of the announcements out of the way. Thank you so much. The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked on that like button now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people."
},
{
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"text": " You should also know that there's a remarkably active discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate tolls, disagree respectfully about theories, and build as a community our own tolls. Links to both are in the description. Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm."
},
{
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"text": " which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well. Last but not least, you should know that this podcast is on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on every one of the audio platforms. Just type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Often I gain from rewatching lectures and podcasts and I read in the comments that, hey, total listeners also gain from replaying."
},
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"text": " So how about instead re-listening on those platforms, iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts, whichever podcast catcher you use. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal and donate whatever you like. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You get early access to ad free audio episodes there as well. Every dollar helps far more than you may think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you."
},
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"text": " Back so soon? Oh no, what happened? A little incident at the dog park. We gotta head to the vet. Oh, not again. These bills. We can use Cashnet USA. We can apply in minutes, get a fast decision, and have the money in the account as soon as the same business day. Alright, Cheddar, back in the car. When you need money fast, be the hero. All loans subject to lender approval, speed of funding, and subject to verifications in your bank's processing time. See CashnetUSA.com for more details."
},
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"text": " Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's for a limited time."
}
]
}No transcript available.