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John Greenewald: Mojave UAPs, FOIA, Gov't Coverups
June 5, 2023
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The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze.
Culture, they analyze finance, economics, business, international affairs across every region. I'm particularly liking their new insider feature. It was just launched this month. It gives you, it gives me, a front row access to The Economist's internal editorial debates.
Where senior editors argue through the news with world leaders and policy makers in twice weekly long format shows. Basically an extremely high quality podcast. Whether it's scientific innovation or shifting global politics, The Economist provides comprehensive coverage beyond headlines. As a toe listener, you get a special discount. Head over to economist.com slash TOE to subscribe. That's economist.com slash TOE for your discount.
There's always a smoke screen or something that makes you look the opposite direction. And that is the absolute best way to summarize government secrecy and cover-up. And it's something that has gone on well over a half a century, not only with UAP and UFOs, but pretty much with any secret that they don't want you to give.
This UAP topic is an intriguing one, to say the least. Views on them range from something mundane and terrain like, hey, it's just atmospheric effects, it's just lens flares, to its mass psychosis, to there's something metaphysical here, some consciousness-related connection to other beings, to its government secrecies and
We're going to explore each of these in today's episode and in particular that last point with John Greenwald Jr. Now John's a seasoned researcher in this phenomenon has developed this reputation for focusing primarily on the hard facts. That is, what can he get his hands on?
Welcome to Theories of Everything with myself, Kurt Jaimungal. My background is in mathematical physics and so this podcast, Theories of Everything, is dedicated to exploring toes, predominantly from a theoretical physics perspective. But I'm also open to the more philosophical toes, as well as the larger questions that seem to
This is Season 3 of the Toe Podcast. Each episode will be more in-depth, have more research, more energy placed into it than any of the other episodes on Toe. In this episode, with John Greenwald in particular, there will be expository material to aid the understanding of some of the concepts, and there will be a special announcement about midway
As usual, there are timestamps, so feel free to skip around to your favorite part. The point is to just get wet and soak in the topics, especially the more mathematical ones. And also note that around the 30 minute mark or so, there will be a message from sponsors, which allow this podcast to have as much attention placed into it as it does. Along with those who are kind enough to contribute and support on Patreon, you allow this to be viewed and listened to at zero cost. Thank you, thank you so much. And now on to the introduction.
Today we have a guest who spent almost his entire life journeying through the labyrinthian annals of government records, shedding light on the clandestine corners of our world. His efforts have created a vast reservoir of declassified documents. I'm gladdened to introduce esteemed creator of TheBlackVault.com, Mr. John Greenwald.
But there is a small percentage that the military will even admit to where they say we just we can't put a definitive explanation on this and that's what's intrigued me for more than 26 years now and why I run the blackball.com and and why UFOs has always been one of my favorite topics because after 26 plus years
I think would want this all to go away. And I could bore you to death with hours of trying to work through the Freedom of Information Act and try and get information from the government that the military just doesn't want us to have. And we can see that secrecy.
Since his teenage years, Johns had an unwavering curiosity about government operations and their many veiled undertakings, leading him to pioneer a wonderful platform, the Black Vault, a testament to his commitment to unearthing data on this topic meticulously gathered and processed.
What's interesting is when you talk about the explanation skeptics debunkers if you want to call them that come out and say well it could be classified technology or drones or stuff like that. What's interesting about this is they investigated 144 cases and they could not put 143 of them in any category that they came up with. They were only able to explain one which was a balloon.
The other explanations they said were potentially classified systems from our own military or a foreign adversary, but they weren't able to identify any of the cases they investigated into those categories. John's Freedom of Information Act requests have unearthed a plethora of previously classified information, illuminating the topics of UAP sightings and covert intelligence operations. Whether you're a lifelong avid UFO enthusiast
A budding historian or just someone with an insatiable appetite for questions that seem to lead to more questions, welcome to the captivating world of John Greenwald Jr. Enjoy.
Every scientific man in order to preserve his reputation has to say he dislikes metaphysics. What he means is he dislikes having his metaphysics criticized. All right, John, welcome. Welcome to the Toe podcast. It's been a long time coming. I appreciate you coming on. Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you, man. So how did you get started in this field? And what is this field? How do you characterize it?
Sure. So I started when I was 15 years old, utilizing the Freedom of Information Act. I was just essentially curious about what the government had. Didn't know exactly what I would find. I could tell you back in 1995, when I started filing FOIAs in 96, the internet was a different beast. I mean, there was something a lot different about the internet then than what you see here in 2023.
And UFOs was still a popular topic even back then, even prior to the web being a popular thing on the internet. Prior to that, there were more chat rooms, file sharing sites, and stuff like that. UFOs was always one of these bigger topics that was distributed online. And I was hooked into that. I loved it. I loved going to the chat rooms. I loved seeing what was there.
But what was difficult was to try and figure out what was real, what was legitimate, and what was something you could trust. And being 15 years old, I had no idea. I mean, I'm a lot older now. I still have no idea, but you get a little bit more of an understanding of what's going on. But again, back then, I didn't know what to believe. But I read about this government document.
four pages long, said to be from the Defense Intelligence Agency. And I thought, you know what, after I read it, there's no way that this thing is real. And this website, if I remember correctly, was called the Computer UFO Network. And they were distributing some of these files way back in the day. And they said, if you don't believe it's legitimacy, you can file a Freedom of Information Act yourself or request yourself. And I was like, what? What's that? I have no idea. But it wouldn't cost me anything more than a postage stamp.
I did it. Got the four page document. It was real. It was a UFO incident known infamously as the 1976 Iran incident and past that I was hooked.
and went back online and looked for any more websites, any more government documents, anything that I could find because even though I knew the government was lying even back then, there was some type of legitimacy to a government document versus seeing someone's story written in a blog or article. The government documents had a different feel to them.
And there was no website with it, just a few documents scattered here and there. So I started the Black Vault when I was 15. I figured if I was looking for documents, other people would be too. So I was utilizing the Freedom of Information Act. I learned from that first request and just taught myself how to use it and was sending out 10, 20, 50 requests at a time and were getting these documents. And then I was getting documents that had never been released before.
You said you have no idea. Is that still true? You have no idea.
Well, I mean, I say it a little bit facetiously, but seriously as well. I don't have any idea what UFOs are at their root. I think that there's many answers. No idea who to trust, that's true. I mean, you look at UFO history going well beyond my time in it of 26 years, it's hard to know who to trust. In relation to the Freedom of Information Act, I'm still learning after 26 years.
So my I have no idea still statement applies to all of that because because it's true. I mean I I hope I never get to a day where I feel that I've Figured it all out meaning understand it. I want to continue to learn I want to I want to I want to learn along the way and get answers but I want to still have questions to back it up and and here we are 26 years later and again, I don't have
Final answers for you on what these phenomena are all I can comfortably say is that there is a massive cover-up I feel that no one really has the ultimate answer and on top of all that yeah, I aim to continue to learn for myself because Look anybody who tells you they figured it out is lying to you because I don't think that's possible at this point
When you say that you still don't know, do you have exclusions, for instance, that you know it's not so-and-so? You can't say what it is, but you can say it's likely not this and this and this.
Are you talking specifically to the UFO phenomenon? Yeah. So I think when you talk about the phenomenon or I use plural phenomena, I say that because I think there's multiple facets to it. I don't think there's any exclusions because you have to drill down on a specific case, a specific experience, and you have to deal with it in a very minuscule manner to figure that particular one out. I think a lot of people approach this topic
Wanting an answer is it alien is it not well you can't do a blanket explanation and in the same respect I feel like you can't do a blanket dismissal either because I can't say that I've excluded classified aircraft from from
Being the root cause of this. Why do I say that? Well, because you can only exclude that in certain instances, not in all of them. So if somebody is in their backyard and they see something streak across the sky and they happen to live in Las Vegas, well, that could absolutely be attributed to their experience.
When we're talking about military pilots, military experiences, that's a little bit different. Maybe something is classified flying in their airspace and they're not aware of it. That's also a possibility or it's something else. So I think that the blanket answers, blanket dismissals, incredibly hard to do with this because
This topic deserves a microscope. I mean, truly you have to zero in on every single facet of it and figure that part out and then go on to the next one, whether that be cases, whether that be unanswered questions, whether that be the physics behind it, whether that be consciousness questions. I'm sure that plays a role in a lot of this. You've got a wide range of things to zero in on.
When people say that this is related to consciousness regarding the phenomenon, what is it that they mean?
So I approach this topic on I want to be able to research something, whether it be documents, photographs, videos, or material. I'm a three-dimensional physical, I need to see it, touch it, feel it if I can type of person, but others find a much more spiritual aspect
To this topic and these phenomena they feel that it's not necessarily about the nuts bolts proof science or whatever it's more about the experience the love the light the the they're here to save us. Again that's not my wheelhouse that's not how i approach it but i think a lot of people do.
approach it in more of that metaphysical way, because that's their experience, that's their mindset, that's where they are on their journey to figure it all out. And that's fine, but you have to essentially rely a little bit less on science, or a lot a bit less on science, and more so on faith. And again, that's not why that's my approach, but for some it is, and for them it works for them.
It's just a different approach, I think, to a phenomena that's still a mystery to us all. And if it works for them, I support that. It's just not my angle. Yeah, so they mean something spiritual? Because when people say it's related to consciousness, my question is, well, what's not related to consciousness? If you take your experience as primary, everything is related to consciousness, including a pen, including a table. Yeah, and the way I took your question was more of the
spiritual aspect of this those that are finding answers within their within themselves versus actual science or again those those nuts and bolts that I'm talking about
With that, I think that there's a very dangerous part of this conversation as well. And you see this a lot, I would say more in the last five years, but even prior, you know, you talk about the Heaven's Gate cult and so on and so forth, that they attribute UFOs, extraterrestrials, alien life to spiritual followings and then sometimes very dangerous
followings. Heaven's Gate obviously was a mass suicide thinking that a UFO was behind a comet. You have others that are much more cultish in nature talking about aliens and so on and so forth. The Raelian movement is one that comes to mind that's been around for quite some time. But then you again have in the last five years or so a much I would say
Much more dangerous part of this, not the majority, but there's a part of it where people just believe and they sacrifice. I call it the I want to believe syndrome. They sacrifice all logic, common sense, our basic form of investigation, asking questions. They sacrifice all of that.
for the want to believe. And they want to believe so much that they will make sure that you do not harm that, that you do not get in the way of that. And if you do, there's hell to pay. They want to believe in what? They want to believe that there's a higher, more intelligent life form out there that is wanting to talk to humanity, that they're here to take us to another level of consciousness, another
place in the cosmos that we're going to join some kind of cosmic brotherhood. I'm not saying that's true for everybody, but that's out there. Those beliefs are out there. And then you have the debate of good aliens versus bad aliens. Are they here to save us from destroying the planet and destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and so on? Or are they here to kill us all? That debate is rampant out there. That brings up a whole new aspect to this conversation, which I'm fascinated by.
But to sum it up, why would they care? Because if they are there and we are here, and they can get here, the likelihood of us being the only two life forms in the cosmos is nil. So why would they care? To me, I attribute it to the Antill analogy.
We will save you.
I'm sorry, the intelligence gap between us and an ant is likely closer than us and a civilization that started two million years ago. I believe that because I think that their intelligence will be so far surpassed our own. Why would they want to come here and number one, even talk to us? But number two, save us. Does it matter? You know, the only reason they would is if we are the only two
In the cosmos you know if there's just a handful of civilizations in this vast universe to me that's not even likely but you know that's the only reason they would and if that is the case.
How would we ever find each other, right? So there's a lot of questions that I think we have to ponder here. It's not about was that UFO an alien spaceship going across the Pacific Ocean, but rather we have to really drill deep into a lot of these pressing questions that you have to tackle if you want to believe in extraterrestrials are here. See, for the anthill analogy, I don't think people think about it carefully enough, because if the ants were able to communicate to us, there would be
Teams of scientists, there will be new stories about, look, we can now communicate with ants. Further, virtually every single species on the planet has a professor whose sole job it is to study it. It's difficult to find a life form that we're not interested in. And then third, we are concerned with species preservation.
So if the ants were going to war with gorillas and one of them were going to be wiped out somehow, we would care about that. Like we already care about that. And there are some people who care about extinction. So there's both sides. So I don't see this dispassionate assessment because it's an anthill and we're so much more advanced as holding up to indicate that we don't
Want to intervene or communicate back because if we could, that would be firstly, we're teaching gorillas to try and communicate to them saying with parrots and we're super excited when they can say a syllable or string together a verb and an adjective and it's like a revolutionary Chomsky gets involved. Yeah. You, you bring up a great, you bring up a great rebuttal.
The only reason I would push back is not every human being studies. You're talking about a very small percentage of humans that make that study and that care. I'm one of those that care, right? So I'm an animal geek. I love that. I love that kind of stuff. But sadly, humanity doesn't. So the reason I bring up the analogy is talking about life forms as a whole here on Earth, humanity as a whole. What's the percentage that cares?
broaden that to a wider scope in the universe to find a full civilization that would again want to come here and speak to us and save us. That to me is more of the point that it would be a much smaller if a percentage point at all. But on top of all that, using what rebuttal you just brought up, which was great, we want to save that life form
Because all we know is one planet and that's it, right? So life is precious to us and I agree with that, right? Like I believe life is precious.
But if then the universe and cosmos is teeming with life, would another advanced civilization have that same appreciation and that same care to go, okay, people of Earth or creatures of Earth, we don't want you to be extinct. We want to coddle you. I want to believe that that's true.
Because I'm the type that in my backyard I will save a hummingbird in my pool, which there's pictures We do that all the time me and my kids will save hummingbirds will say so we do that, right? But it's because we have that appreciation for life would a civilization millions of years ahead of us in a cosmos teeming with life care
And that's I think the bigger question here is that we want to think they would because of humanity and where we are in the infant stages that we are. But the reality is it could be a machine that we run into when we talk about an extraterrestrial.
And that brings up this whole other debate wherein we are operating off the assumption that we are going to run into a biological creature of some kind. But that unanswered question is, when that happens, if it hasn't already, will it be biological at all? And then that brings up a whole other slew of questions.
I get your point absolutely, but for me I remove myself as much as I can from humanity and try and look at it as a bigger picture and that's where I feel the the Antill analogy then comes into play. Yeah, I see that. I'll say some thoughts that occurred to me. Number one is that if there
sufficiently advanced and they would have something like auto GPT. So right now we have AIs and they can run automatically without our intervention. So it could be that even though the average person doesn't care about a particular animal, like you mentioned, there's a subset of people who care about a particular animal. Even though that's the case, it could just be it runs automatically. So it doesn't matter that all of us as a whole aren't, it could be that you're sending out probes automatically. Secondly,
This is something I think about. We tend to think that what's valuable is what's rare, like diamonds and gold. But it may be the case that we have that backward and that that's based on something like materialism and that what may be the most valuable is what's the most abundant. And that is to say like our consciousness or meaning or significance.
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It's a difficult concept to parse out because we tend to make an equivalence between what's valuable and what's rare and what's uncommon.
I don't see it as being completely obvious that what's precious is what's most rare. It may be the opposite. What's precious is what's most common. Yeah, and you bring up an interesting, I'm not sure if this will connect to your thought at all, but you bring up an interesting point about the gold and the precious metals that are precious to us and therefore valuable.
If we were able to go out those precious metals to us humans
is completely abundant like there's that one I forget exactly the value of the the comet that they said is is worth like quintillions of dollars and that you know the idea is that if you go out and actually can rope it and bring it in and you can start mining it and and so on and so forth it brings up I guess an interesting concept that what and which kind of plays into my point earlier is that what is essentially rare to us
that we value it more. Gold is much more valuable than dirt because it's much more precious to us and so on and so forth. And therefore we coddle that and we hold on to it. It's got value. It grows in value. But using gold as the example in the cosmos,
that's one of those precious metals that if you rope one of those comets you completely crash the gold market here because you are just overflowing with it and it's not precious anymore it's just a metal it's just dirt you know it's not worth anything that i think plays into what i was saying earlier where here on earth humanity values what it does because we're small and that's all we know but once that broadens to literally a cosmic scale
those values change, both monetary values, but also what's here and what's here in our mind and our heart. So it's a mind blowing topic because you can go so many different ways. And like you said, does the abundance create value? I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe with a higher intelligence that would come into play. But sadly for humanity, as you and I chat right now,
That's not the case. And that's how we have to, at this point, think about how it might be out there. Just because we don't know where we're going to be in a thousand years. How much do you think the government knows? And when I say the government, that may be a misnomer because we say the as if it's unified. One all-powerful, all-knowing entity. Yeah. And even ourselves, we're disparate. We have different goals, like you mentioned.
Despite that, despite those caveats, interpret that as you wish. How much does the government know? Well, I get myself in a lot of trouble here because I said this first years and years ago, and I couldn't believe the hate mail that I got. I said it's quite possible the government has no clue. That they're just as clueless as you and I, and forgive me, I don't mean you're clueless, but humanity itself on unraveling this
this whole phenomenon right these phenomena what is it what's the root of it it's possible that the government doesn't know either
And I couldn't believe the hate mail that I got from that because a lot of people think that the government is this all-powerful, all-knowing entity that knows all. And they're bad people and they're covering it all up, which I believe there is a cover up, but they're covering it all up and they know the secrets and they're stashed away in some warehouse somewhere, but they're not going to tell you about it.
That's the easy way to think about it. The harder way is to think that the government doesn't know either. That they just, after all these decades of researching it, cannot essentially figure out really what the root is or at least the final answer. Maybe they have clues, maybe they have pieces of evidence, maybe they have material. And let me say that and let me take that back.
It's proven they have material there are declassified documents that that prove that that are connected to ufos post project blue book era so that's all provable that's not conspiracy talk material of some kind so they have physical objects.
What does that prove to them? That's what we don't know. They could be studying it for a week, figure it out, and hide and cover up the answer. Or they could be looking at it for decades going, yeah, we think that this is manufactured by extraterrestrials, but we're not really sure because we have zero clue on how to figure that out. We'd like to think that we could with our 21st century technology and most brilliant minds that have security clearances, but there's a possibility that we just kind of can't.
So going back to your question, it's a possibility they don't know. But on top of that, if they did, would they ever tell us? So let's operate off the assumption that they really do know and they've found ultimate connections to extraterrestrials. It's undeniable. Maybe they don't know how the using the nuts and bolts thing. Again, they don't know the nuts and bolts behind it, but they know that it's manufactured by an extraterrestrial entity. That's an assumption, right?
If that's true, then they wouldn't tell us. I truly believe that. I think that they would keep that under wraps. You have too much working against society that would allow a world government to come clean. So what do they know? It's kind of a crapshoot on what they know, but either way, it's not good. If there's a cover-up, how is it that you determine which documents that you receive from FOIA requests are credible and which ones are not?
Well, that's a great question because do I believe the government fabricates the material that comes to me? And I would hate to think that they would. I mean, the easy out for them is to essentially just either redact it or deny it. So to create these disinformation campaigns, I'm not big on those types of stories. Even though I doubt some individuals that have come out,
and had these stories and so on and so forth and some of the UFO community will call it will say ah he's on a disinformation campaign you can't trust him you know you don't do that I've long outspoken against that I just don't think the government will create more work than they have to they don't want to do the work that they're supposed to do so creating this massive disinformation campaign
to essentially fabricate documents and throw off FOIA researchers, I've never seen any indicator that that's going on. Rather, I think they're just going to black it out, redact it, or fully deny you getting access to it, and that's their legal
Alright, that's quite a slew of information and previously in the Daniel Schmottenberger episode, people appreciated the summaries and so let's just go over what's been covered so far. This way we can breathe and gain our bearings.
John talks about how this government's cover-up has been going on for half a century, and it's not just relegated to UAPs. He also talks about why it's difficult to discern what's real from what's not when it comes to UFOs, and government documents have a different feel to them, at least according to John, where they feel more legitimate compared to stories written in blogs and articles.
Again, this is according to John. Now, the Black Vault is something John started when he was 15, and he's been doing this for over 20 years. We talked about the spiritual versus the scientific approach, and the spiritual one seems to be more experiential, and the science one seems to involve more physical evidence and documents, photographs, videos. There's the dangerous side to beliefs, so John outlined the Heaven's Gate cult, though there's also the dangers of just not caring.
John also talks about that if aliens do exist perhaps they wouldn't be concerned about us and I have this rebuttal to the anthill analogy because to me it's not a great comparison given that we give considerable scrutiny to almost every single species including ongoing attempted communication. We talk about what is the value in the universe? Is it something that's rare or is it that in fact what's abundant? And do extraterrestrials advance civilizations if we want to put quotations around advanced? Do they have the same value for life as we do?
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There's also, I think, an area of the government that is not touchable. I mean, that's kind of a given to many people, but that I think is definitely the harsh reality for someone like me to go up against.
What does that mean that there's an area that's not touchable? That I think that there's going to be a lot of files that if you request information that they will say there's nothing there when in reality there is. So not touchable via FOIA and not just because of the exemptions but I believe you reach a level of classification. Let's take the Edward Snowden leaks for example.
I believe there were pushes through FOIA to get some of those surveillance documents out and obviously the government was denying those programs existed. So in essence, that's not touchable. We now know that it existed, but that's a provable example that through legal means and the government talking about it, they're saying, no, we're not doing this. Snowden then releases a bunch of surveillance
Program records that are classified top secret and so on and then all of a sudden we find out well all of that stuff is real the stuff that made it into Hollywood movies like echelon and stuff like that with the NSA is is actually going on so so again that's where I think is a provable example that
Even though I let's say prior to Edward Edward Snow never leaking material were to go after that the NSA would likely not say No, we have nothing they would likely say We can neither confirm nor deny which is called a Glomar response or they would lie about it you know, I think that that is that provable way to prove there's Something we can't touch
Or they would lie about it. How? Like not through the FOIA request. They wouldn't manufacture something for a FOIA request. That's a lie. They would just say something like, what do you mean? No, I think that they, I think that they would just say, we have nothing pertaining to the request. If I understood your question correctly. I mean, it's as easy as that. I think they would lie and say, yeah, we know that we have a room full of stuff, but we can't give it to them. So let's just say no.
And that is by the way also not conspiracy talk. I have a umpteen examples of that through the past 26 years where the government has said no and then years later figure out that actually documents were there and then I would file again get the documents out. Prime example when it comes to UFOs Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had over a thousand pages that they claimed they searched found nothing. Years later I read an article that Wright-Patterson Air Force Base released
over a thousand pages of UFO material and I wrote the guy I said well wait a minute and this was a lesson I learned very young because you never want to think that the government's lying I mean I'm a lot older now so I know better but when you're 15 and you're getting into it you think if they say no they mean no right I mean you just don't like automatically go aha it's a conspiracy
When you're that young, you're just dumb, in my case. So you just want to believe it. And when he wrote back and said, oh yeah, they were here, I'm paraphrasing, but essentially, if you want them, here's a bill, like he didn't really even give an explanation. Sorry, he's referring to? Yeah, the Freedom of Information Act officer.
So, his last name was Hulesman. He was a T Sergeant. That's public record, so I'm not ousting anybody. He's long not worked for Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, but the letter's online and so on and so forth. And he was actually the one that released it, so it was an odd connection that he was the one that signed the letter a couple years prior to the release.
And it was the same person that released the records years later that I read about in a magazine. So was that a lie? Well, okay, maybe it was a mistake, but that's just not one instance. There are tons of them. I have numerous Freedom of Information Act appeals where through the Freedom of Information Act, they will say, sorry, Kurt, we have nothing. That's called a no records response. So they say we're issuing a new no records response.
So, Kurt appeals because he thinks that he knows something is there. He's got proof. He appeals. It goes to a higher what they call appellate authority. That appellate authority reviews it and goes, hey, wait a minute. You guys didn't do X, Y, or Z and it actually was there. So, all mistakes in my opinion? No. I believe that there are sadly malicious instances where they say no even though they know the answer is yes. Is that legal?
I'm trying to find the right way to say it. Is it legal? Well, by law, they have to say that they searched. They have to actually have searched and if the documents do not meet their nine FOIA exemptions, release the material. When they say no and there's really a yes,
Can we call it illegal? I don't know because I can't sue on that. What if it's just a mistake? And I think mistakes are made. There's some amazing FOIA officers out there. So I don't want to immediately jump and say they're doing something illegal. You know, that's wrong. I don't think that that's necessarily the right approach. But rather, I think that there is a malicious intent here and it goes against the law.
What I call it illegal, that would be hard to prove. For me, even though I'm not an attorney, I would say anything illegal, you sue in a court of law and win because they did something illegal. You can sue under the Freedom of Information Act, but to prove that they were lying is tough because they have the human error to fall back on and sadly, that's a tough one to argue.
When you were saying that you don't buy the disinformation chronicle about that they send them out through the FOIA requests, you're not saying that there is no such thing as disinformation from the government, you're saying that the disinformation doesn't occur through what you receive from a FOIA request?
Yeah, I'd hate to just say that it doesn't exist through FOIA because I know that my biggest haters out there will say, well, John just trust the FOIA and that's not necessarily true. What I'm more saying with that is that I don't think that they're going to go to the lengths of fabricating documents through a FOIA requester because the majority of FOIA requesters don't publish everything anyway.
So that disinformation campaign would have to be geared towards someone like me who does publish everything. And then on top of that, you have to hope that they're actually going to publish it, you know, because I get material sometimes that really isn't all that interesting. So it to me, there's too much work there for a government that doesn't like to work anyway.
Where I think the disinformation does come in, and I do believe that this is going on, is more of the press statements, the public hearings. Under oath, I don't think means much when it comes to national security. I don't want to sound conspiratorial there, but yeah, I believe that certain people, including Congress, is likely misled about certain programs, UAP included.
That's also not conspiracy talk because when you go back in the decades there are multiple examples of them being misled or stonewalled. I mean just in the last couple of years we hear senators scream into the high heavens about being stonewalled for information. Rand Paul is a prime example to prove that statement where he requests information from the agencies they stonewall him and even senators are now using the Freedom of Information Act. Rand Paul had referenced that
with COVID material with the HHS. So I think that that is for me the disinformation that I believe in because I think it's provable and it's there. A full operation to manufacture documents and evidence and send that out. I don't think they have to. I think that they can do enough damage with
Press statements, spokespeople, stuff like that. That's the much bigger challenge to figure out what's real and what's not. I see. You mentioned that some of the critics say so and so. What else do the critics say for yourself? Something I've observed is that given enough time, almost anyone in this field, this quote unquote field, I don't know what to call it, ufology, this field, they become irascible. I don't know why, but maybe you can speak to that. Like what makes people
become so hostile or sensitive after a certain period of time investigating this topic? In my opinion, it's that I want to believe syndrome. And I think that the hostility comes from the want to believe. And if you go against that, they'll come after you. And your question was how specifically has it affected me?
Well, post 2017, when December, October, to be real specific, but when Luis Elizondo had come out and talked about this UFO aerial threat program, he didn't even say ATIP in October of 2017, but he talked about these aerial threats.
I was all over that. I was fascinated by it because that had played into at the time a little over 20 years worth of research that I knew the government was up to something. I knew that they were researching it. I could prove the lie at that point even prior to Luis Elizondo and that lie was in 1969 they stopped researching and caring about UFOs.
Full stop. That's been their stance for decades prior to Luis Elizondo's story coming out. The documentation, that evidence from the United States Air Force, from the CIA, from the DIA and the NSA alone, amongst many others, but just those biggies completely disproved what they were trying to claim. So now fast forward to 2017.
Elizondo comes out. I'm all over it. I'm like watching that. I'm like taking notes. I'm like, this is great. By the time that that conference had ended that press conference with no press by to the Stars Academy in October of 2017, I had FOIA requests sitting in the Pentagon email boxes, but sitting in the Pentagon requesting information based on the testimony that Luis Elizondo was giving to the public.
I didn't have a reason to doubt Elizondo. There was no reason to. I was super excited. Fast forward to December. I was ironically speaking at a conference. It was a UFO themed conference and everybody was talking on this morning of December 17th and everybody
was speaking about this. I remember I think Stephen Bassett was there. I'm not sure if you've had Stephen on your show, but he's the activist, the lobbyist, I should say, in Washington DC. So a lot of people were at this conference, they were talking about this. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And then it broke through New York Times, Politico, and it was a big deal. Wow, I thought it was great. Well, around that time, fast forward now to the end of December, I started getting FOIA responses from October.
certain things didn't match up and so I started questioning things and then a lot of things didn't match up and then not only the Freedom of Information Act was getting responses but also the spokespeople which I'm a firm believer have disinformation sometimes attached were contradicting the story so I started writing about it then go to 2018 beginning of 2018 I was trying to get a hold of Luis Elizondo going hey what's going on here there's a lot of question marks here
And fast forward a little bit more, as I wrote more about it, you get lambasted. Why? Because that October and December 2017 event, right, where Luis Elizondo comes out, a tips a thing, UFO secret programs in the Pentagon, that's what people wanted to believe in. That's what they wanted. Here I come along after months of looking into it going, there's a lot of things that don't match up here.
and they come after you guns blazing because you're going against what they want to believe. Don't interrupt that. Don't, don't, don't go against this. This is what we've been wanting for decades. Now it's here. Just shut up about it and they'll come after you. And I'm speaking- Who's they, sorry? They meaning those, I don't know if you want, I'm not going to name names, but rather those that want to believe. I'm just talking about the hostility in general.
which kind of goes to your question, like the attacks. And it's not one or two people. There's a lot. I mean, Luis Elizondo has a large fan base. There's a lot of people that follow him. But with that, it comes that hostility. And that's what I'm speaking to, to your question. Like, why do people become hostile? And I'm just speaking from personal experience answering that, that it is the going against what people want to believe.
and at that at that point and then even now in 2023 people want to believe in Luis Elizondo and that's fine he's he's done a lot of great things but he's also got a lot of questionable things as well and i think people don't want to look at the questionable things they want to just look at what he's what he's saying and that's it don't don't question it don't upset the the apple cart on that and
When you have the government going against someone like Luis Elizondo via their spokesperson, everybody creates a villain there. And this also is to your question, where is that hostility? Well, in this field, however you want to term it, there are villains and there are heroes. To some, I'm a villain.
to others, I could be a hero because I'm getting these documents. And I think it all depends on that particular person. Luis Elizondo is largely a hero. So you have that, this Pentagon spokesperson, Susan Goff, public record, she's the one that has issued all of these statements. She's a villain to a lot of those that are involved in this conversation because she's going against what Luis Elizondo said.
So that plays into the hostility that we see because it goes against what people want to believe. And that's not true for everybody. There's, again, a lot of amazing people out there. But when you look on social media, Twitter especially, you have a lot of hostility. There are some that gets incredibly dangerous. People getting banned off of Twitter for threats of violence against me
and others. That's true. I'm not exaggerating on that. So that's a dangerous... I laugh about it because I can do nothing else, right? I mean, it becomes a very dangerous thing.
For those who are unacquainted, you mentioned that there was an official story and then there were contradictions to it. Can you explain what the official story was and then what the contradictions were that either came out or you uncovered? Sure. So the official story, if what you mean by what Luis Elizondo's story was as echoed by Politico in the New York Times in December of 2017, the nutshell was Luis Elizondo
Directed a program called the advanced they published it at the time the advanced aviation Threat identification program it turned out that the name was more likely advanced aerospace Threat identification program or a tip again Elizondo was the head of it and the whole direction of the program was to investigate UFOs the reason I point out the name discrepancy is that
At the time, I didn't realize it, but would later become the root of a lot of this debate.
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The official, this being the government side of it, was that ATIP was not an official program. It was simply a nickname. The real program was something called OSAP, A-A-W-S-A-P. And on top of all of that, it didn't investigate UFOs at all. And on top of that, it was at the Defense Intelligence Agency, not at the office in the Pentagon where Luis Elizondo worked.
So all of a sudden you had these contradictions that started to, over the course of six months and a year after it came out, all started to kind of trickle out themselves of creating this controversy. The one that I really latched onto was the videos, the nature of the three videos that came out.
the story I'll call it the official story from Luis Elizondo and to the stars Academy, which was the private entity to where he worked said that those videos were officially declassified went through the review process of the Department of Defense.
And were released essentially to the public. And then Luis Elizondo took them to the Stars Academy. That was what we were all led to believe. New York Times published two of them. The third one came out in March of 2018. Well, that's what we thought. Pentagon says, nope, we never officially released any of those.
So I and I had gotten some of the original statements that were that were published out and so of course that naturally made me the bad guy but those are bold statements to make. There's a difference between disinformation and misleading and sometimes saying saying stuff like that because this is something that you get into a very provable territory. So I won't bore you to death with with
Kind of the full of what I mean by that, but the short of it is when you misinform, you either have to make sure that you can back it up or that the evidence to disprove what you're saying never can see the light of day. So there's a big line. So when they were coming out saying, oh, no, we've never officially released these.
Well, I would think that there would be a long paper trail of that official declassification process that we were told that took place. That did not exist. In fact, when the documents came out, it showed that Luis Elizondo, when he filed the paperwork, didn't call them UFOs at all. He called them balloons and essentially drones, unidentified aerial systems. But on top of that, he had stated on the form
And it's provable that Luis Elizondo wrote this, this isn't third-hand information, that he was only going to use them for internal government use only. That's a far cry from what we were being told through the media and through to the Stars Academy. So what happened there? Where is this wild contradiction coming from? Any of these little things standing alone are sometimes small. It's a little bit minuscule. But when you add them all together,
All of a sudden, it kind of begs the question, what's going on? If you're able to talk about this program, it means that it's either declassified or unclassified in nature. You can't just go out and start talking about classified stuff. You just can't. Ask anybody with a clearance. So the fact that he was talking about it at all, naming the program name, or what we were told was the program name, unclassified or declassified, pick one, but he's not in cuffs. So it's got to be one or the other.
But as time went on, we realized that a lot of it really wasn't even true. And it wasn't because of the spokespeople, it was because of the documentation that started to surface. It took a couple of years for that OSAP material to come out from the DIA.
If this was a UFO research program, all 38 reports
should have had something to do with UFOs. But instead, they were very much geared toward what OSAP was all about, published in 2008, and all of that is verifiable as well. So again, there's a lot of facets to this, but the bottom line is that the story that we were told was not ultimately the truth.
And for someone like me, it's frustrating because I know these phenomena are real. I've researched it for decades, and I'm not talking because Joe Blow told me a story in a parking lot somewhere. I'm talking about official documents that go back to the 1940s that lack explanation. There's a lot of them. Government wants you to think there's not, but there really is, and that's provable.
So when this came about and the contradictions were there, I have no skin in the game on making you believe what I want you to believe. Rather, I just kind of report what I find, you know? Like I source everything. I publish 100% of it, unless it's really not even worth the bandwidth. But that's a rare occasion. I publish everything, especially when I write articles. And those contradictions, most of them still exist.
and they still haven't been addressed. And rather than addressing them, this has kind of turned into a big kind of war when it comes to this conversation. And it's the war of, well, you are going to either believe the government or believe Luis Elizondo. Well, that's not how I look at it, because I think Luis Elizondo has brought out a lot of great stuff. In fact, I wrote a story that I broke about it. It was 2021.
And it was a big deal to me because I'm an investigator and essentially an archivist and I preserve as much history as I can. That's what the Black Vault is. It's approaching three and a half million pages now on various topics. I mean, there's a ton of stuff.
And I was going after Luis Elizondo's emails. The story I broke was that after working on this for literally a couple of years, I discovered that the Department of Defense had destroyed Luis Elizondo's email boxes and essentially all the attachments that went along with it, well ahead of what they call the records retention schedule.
That is not kosher at all. Whether or not you want to call it illegal, I'll leave that to someone else. But I was able to prove that they destroyed everything. So the proof that I was looking for to prove his story was largely destroyed by the Department of Defense.
And so, again, my whole point with this part is there's a lot going on on both sides. The contradictions is not just, again, on Luis Elizondo's side, but rather the Pentagon as well. There's a lot of shenanigans going on, but that part I can prove. Why is the part that I don't know yet, even after five years of looking into it? And part of me thinks that that's the point, that this stuff gets dragged on so long
It becomes a point when it comes to the smaller stuff, like who cares anymore, right? Like who cares that he lied in 2017? Well, I do, but a lot of people will, that is the argument online, where people that are calling themselves activists and so on and so forth, they are fighting with me saying, well, who cares now? It's 2023. In 2017, they cared. 2018, they cared.
But in 2023, now it's proven that those videos were not brought out the way that we were told. It's proven that people have not been telling the truth. That's proven. And now it doesn't matter. So let's just move on. And that's what's frustrating because to me, I want the whole truth. I don't want my truth. I don't want your truth. I want the truth. I want the whole truth.
and that's what I fight for and what I aim for and along the way that hostility is just from people who don't like it.
I'm not looking to start any drama, any more drama. I know there's already some issues with different people. Is Lou's contention that the government is suppressing him? There's plenty of turmoil, clearly. So what would you say in defense of Lou for people who are not aware of what's going on? What is Lou's response to this? And I don't want to put words into Lou's mouth. I don't like even asking this question, but in order to give the alternate perspective. Sure.
Yeah, and I can easily address that without putting words in Mr. Elizondo's mouth. He filed a Department of Defense complaint alleging that certain individuals had essentially targeted him for coming out.
Now that was filed and given to certain journalists. I tried to get a hold of it myself when I had found out about it for no other reason other than that could be used to verify the claims. Whether or not spokespeople want to do it, whether or not they would release the investigation results, that was irrelevant to me.
The information that he put down on paper I knew would be helpful. He never wanted to give it to me. And there was a time that he and I were chatting and talking. So it wasn't like, oh, no, Greenwald's a bad guy. Now, sadly, he refuses to speak with me and has blocked me on social media, which is fine. I don't know why, to be honest. But the complaint itself has been published by the New York Post.
They redacted names that were not publicly available. So now anybody can read it. Some of the names again are redacted, but anybody can read it. So to your question, I don't have to speak for him or we don't have to guess. He put it on paper that he essentially was being targeted. What I had discovered through the FOIA
After I knew that this had been submitted and I dug for a long time about a year and a half I guess but but quite a long time the case was dismissed
I was able through FOIA to get his interview transcript, which is mostly available, some redactions, of course, but mostly available. So you can actually read his transcript on top of his complaint, again, with the effort of not speaking for him. So you'll be able to read that as well. So that's what is kind of interesting about this is that people can say what they want. But when it comes to the government, you can start verifying what they say to a point.
and that information will come out. What was kind of frustrating to see was that the general public was told about the complaint and the investigation by the DOD's Inspector General Office, but what the public wasn't told was that it was closed like in earlier last year.
They didn't see any evidence to support it, so essentially they closed the case and dismissed it. I have the letter that was sent to Mr. Elizondo's attorney, again through FOIA, and I believe that was fully released. Maybe some small redactions, I don't remember off the top of my head. But regardless, you can see that the case was not proven and Mr. Elizondo had maintained a security clearance and they essentially closed the case.
So all of that information is now available. But again, that frustration was why is the public only told part of the story? I mean, you know, it's not like it had closed a week or two prior, but quite a while ago, but the public still talks about this. In fact, Politico wrote about it. So where's where's the
Where's the attention to what happened? And I think that that's how legends and myths are born, where you have part of a story and that lives on for decades. You never get the resolution because people don't want you to hear that part, but rather that myth will live on in infamy in UFO land. And that's frustrating because people deserve the full story, all the pieces of the puzzle. And that's what I aim to do with these types of requests.
So, John, what's the deal? There's a large uproar about is it ASAP? Is it a tip for me as an outsider? Remember, I know I'm a fool. I know extremely little. What difference doesn't make? An analogy would be Microsoft has Bing AI. Apparently it was called Sydney. I don't care if it was called Sydney or Bulbasaur. It doesn't make a difference to me. So why is there a huge hubbub over this?
When it comes to the name itself, the hubbub was for people like me looking for information. Why was the name so hard to lock down? Why was the media reporting different names? That should be something that's straightforward. Journalism 101, just fact checking what the program name was.
So the writing was on the wall from day one that the reporting itself wasn't solid. But now again, fast forward as more information and documents came out because that in some cases took years. The OSAP stuff came out I think in 2022. So you're talking well over four and a half years of waiting for material. Once we heard OSAP, it was years before we actually got the documentation.
But then also to your question of why it matters away from the name is the scope itself. We were told it was a UFO research program.
Great. That's fantastic. I have proof going back to the US Air Force in the late 1990s that they were researching UFOs. So this was more evidence to it. That was my original thought. But as documentation came out, spokespeople were talking about it. They're like, no, this had nothing to do with UAP. And then they later said that they utilized information that touched on UAP, but it wasn't a UAP research program.
So why does it matter? Because now we have research programs, we have Aero, we have an office in the DOD that aims to research UAP. But for me, and I'm only speaking for me here, but why it's important is why was it such a mess to begin with? What was the intention here? Was the intention to bring out a wild story that had fictionalized elements in hopes to get us to today? Okay.
But did the ends justify the means? I'm not really sure. I'm not a big believer again in that disinformation campaign, but others believe that that's what this was, to create a public hype that reached every corner of the globe, which it did. I mean, we can't argue that. Create that hype, then shoot it down.
both figuratively and literally. But look at the conversation since these balloons got shot down. This to me may come off as conspiratorial, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. You know, you had that Chinese spy balloon and we shot it down. Then in the course of like days, we started shooting stuff down, you know, all over the place. Then nothing, right? Nothing has essentially happened since then. But what did they do? They connected UAP and the conversation to these balloons.
that happened in the mainstream media that all of a sudden I'm seeing it on Twitter and I don't want to name names but they are bigger journalists who had reporting for periodicals you'd recognize and again I just don't want to be rude here on on journalists but you'll see a shift that they were I don't want to say pro-UAP but very much reporting legitimately on the UAP topic a year and a half ago two years ago and now they're making fun of it
And the reason is because that message of, well, it's all balloons. It's all foreign spy tech. We screwed up. They got balloons over us. But that's what we're talking about with UAP. So move along here. And some of those journalists have bought it, hook, line and sinker. And so now their articles have changed. Their scope has changed. Even the masthead has changed their tone of reporting on UAP.
It's an interesting connection that the documents that got those three original UAP videos out, the official document, described them as balloons and drones. Why? All a coincidence? Maybe. I don't know. But for me, that's where I start questioning it going, that's too much of a coincidence to me because that was an alarm to me in 2018.
And those contradictions never went away. Now here we are in 2023, literally connecting balloons to UAP. I do not believe that that is the source of the true UAP discussion that we should be having. So let me stress that to you. I do not believe this is about balloons and drones fully. Uh-huh. Partially it is. Yes, absolutely. It's partially conversation, but not fully.
And I think at this point that shift is starting to happen. Recently there was a UAP hearing and Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who heads the UAP office, they were talking about drones, they were talking about balloons, spy platforms, and even though he said, I am paraphrasing, but essentially he couldn't
attribute some of the unexplained cases to Russia or to China specifically that he found indicators of it. Now obviously those indicators were likely set in a classified setting because he didn't elaborate past that and the two senators that were actually there that showed up I think there were three ultimately but one just popped in for one question and left. No one pushed him on it so it's either from the classified session or whatever.
So you can see that the Pentagon is now trying to kind of shift that discussion. I think that's the wrong thing. But it makes you wonder about the allegations against a disinformation campaign. Was this part of the plan? Now, as conspiratorial as that sounds, I will add this. Backtrack all the way to the 1960s, even to 1952 if you want it.
And their aim during the Project Blue Book era, the CIA realized that they needed to squash public interest in this, in UFOs and the UFO world. That was 1952 into 1953 with what they call the Robertson Panel, right? All of the documentation's out, so this isn't crazy talk. All of this is backed by official documents. They needed to explain, not investigate, but explain because they felt that the general public
was the national security threat that we with our interest with our voice and with our ability could essentially overload the capabilities at the time of the US government and the military and start flooding 911 and so on and so forth. So it became less about investigation more about explanation.
And then when you get into the 1960s, the same thing happened. Very similar to today. You had whistleblowers that came out from the military. You had people that were essentially the debunkers. Well, they brought together a panel of scientists that ultimately led to what they call the Condon Committee Study. And they shut UFOs down in 1969 and officially closed it in January of 1970. What's the Condon Committee? Sorry.
Yeah, so that was essentially a culmination of scientists that were going to analyze the data that had been collected from 1947. I believe it was 1966 or so when they started looking at it or at least talking about it. But the data all the way through that date and they were going to analyze the findings of the Air Force and issue their conclusion per se. It was this a worthwhile phenomena to study.
and ultimately that scientific study determined no and so the government said we're not interested either and shut it all down because they felt that it wasn't a threat to national security and what objects they did collect and investigate were largely all identified and those that were not were simply because of lack of facts and and lack of data
eerily similar to what Dr. Kirk Patrick just said to Congress. The majority of them, and he said majority, and there's a reason to put a pin in that for a second, but he said majority were clutter, identifiable objects, and whatever other
That sounds believable because I imagine that the majority of what's unidentified is usually explainable.
were remaining unidentified. Okay, so that's not majority. But my whole point is actually opposite of what you might have thought I was going to say. I'm surprised that it wasn't 98% of clutter, misidentifications, and identifiable objects. Honestly, because I think that the human eye thinks they see things and given the proper scrutiny, yeah, you're talking about the high 90s. Easy. So the fact that it was a roughly half, that's amazing to me when you're talking about 650 cases.
So as of mid or so April of 2023, he said in that hearing 650 cases, roughly half essentially weren't identified. So are we on the same path to what we were? Are these contradictions relevant? I say yes, especially for the history of this, but I say yes. And is there disinformation coming from all angles?
And I think that those are important questions with evidence to back it up that we need to be asking right now, because we don't have the answers. And one last final thought, and I pointed this on my YouTube channel myself, is when you look at Kirkpatrick Talk, he looks strained. He looks like he's forced to be there. Thank you, Chairwoman Geo Brand, Ranking Member Ernst, distinguished members of the subcommittee.
It's a privilege to be here today to testify on the defense's efforts to address unidentified anomalous phenomena. First, I want to thank Congress for its extensive and continued partnership as the department works to better understand and respond to UAP in an effort to minimize technical and intelligence surprise. And he looks like he's forced to say what he is. That's an opinion. Let me stress that based on nothing but an opinion.
But when you look at Dr. J. Alan Hynek, who happened to have been the main scientific advisor and consultant and scientist on the Project Blue Book UFO investigations through the 50s and 60s, when you look at his evolution, he was essentially made to explain UFOs. We know that because he later wrote books about it.
There was a shift while he was working with the government that he had seen enough to realize the government was not taking it seriously. That he was forced to explain the objects, but a lot of objects could not be explained. And he went from that skeptic to believer
After he left the U.S. Air Force and Project Blue Book closed, he started his own UFO research organization and went on for years investigating UFOs and those with what they call physical trace evidence. I spent a lot of time with his protege, the late Ted Phillips, who sadly passed away a few years, but I had produced and wrote some history channel shows that profiled Dr. Hynek and Ted Phillips and the amount of information that they went out and collected
brought it back and and a lot of stuff that had you know quite a few question marks about it not proof of of aliens per se but rather question marks that led to what were these craft coming down what altered the soil why were these physical trace evidence left behind so on and so forth so now again going to comparing the the two errors here is Kirkpatrick just brought in as that scientist to be forced to explain
And I don't know. Again, maybe he just doesn't like cameras and doesn't like hearing settings and just was a little nervous. You know, that's a possibility. But to me, it screamed that he was forced to read. This is a lot of what we have is all explainable and what we don't.
other signs of Russia and China, but I can't really go into it. And he went through those points. But again, I think that there's more to that story. And I think that hopefully in the years to come, we'll start really digging in and finding out what that story is. But I don't think the whole story is written yet. I really don't. And as much as the government wants to now lean on the balloon angle and essentially dismiss UAP,
In the sense that they can explain it so dismiss the the intrigue the mystery a little bit I don't think you can I really don't Was there a in the same way that with Sean there's a discernible tonality and body language shift, maybe not shift Well for Heineck was there a shift like he said that he was this way before then some way afterward Did you see it from how he was presenting himself for conducting himself? I
Times were a lot different in the 1950s and 60s. Film reels are going to be fairly limited. Obviously, film was round, but they didn't record everything like today. But when you hear Heineck talk in some of the earlier clips, because we went through a ton of stock footage, and by a ton, I just mean like every reel that we could find of J. Alan Heineck, and you can see a tone difference between those earlier days and his
Hear that sound?
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Hi, I'm here to pick up my son Milo. There's no Milo here. Who picked up my son from school? I'm gonna need the name of everyone that could have a connection. You don't understand. It was just the five of us.
So this was all planned? What are you gonna do? I will do whatever it takes to get my son back. I honestly didn't see this coming. These nice people killing each other. All Her Fault, a new series streaming now only on Peacock.
throughout what scientific evidence and proof was there to to collect and his main scope or I guess it's arguable if it was his main scope but his his protege and my my friend Ted Phillips who had mentioned earlier
his main scope was the physical trace evidence. That stuff that they could put in front of you and say, Kurt, here's the dirt from the landing area, here's the control sample, and here's the dirt analysis showing that it was called hydroponic, I think it is, where it rejects water when the control sample does not. I think it was called hydroponic?
Gosh, now I'm drawing a blank on it. It's been quite a few years. The science was a little over my head, but essentially it wouldn't suck in the water and make mud that the soil was changed to a point of not being able to get the water.
Who is Stanton Friedman and what is the Majestic 12?
Stan was a friend of mine for over 20 years. I say that because he, I think, is one of the last true researchers in this field. Sadly, he passed away. But where I say one of the last, I don't think a lot of people understood the true research that Stan did. And he was an amazing individual with an amazing background of the work that he did with the US government.
He and I became friends in the late 90s and his main scope of research was a group called Majestic 12 or MJ12. Now, he and I slightly differed on our beliefs of MJ12, but I was always impressed with the level that Stanton would go to. He believed that the original, what they call Majestic 12 documents that came out, that they were genuine.
And essentially it was a group of government people and scientists that were essentially keeping UFOs and the extraterrestrial reality a secret.
And he had dove in on every single character on those documents, the people that were mentioned, the claims that were made, even the typeset font on the era the documents were allegedly written, the signatures that came along with it. I think Truman was one of the signatures that they investigated. So
When I say investigation, he did every ounce that you could think of when it came to Majestic 12, and he determined that they were real.
And I smile about it because, again, he and I differed. I didn't really feel that they were legitimate. I felt that they were based on a hoax. You had people that had come out and said that they were a hoax. But Stanton was true to the end, that he felt that they were real. And that always struck me because I had, I'll make the story quick, but I had an opportunity when I lectured in DC to go to the National Archives with
Stanton Friedman. And again, he and I at this point, we're friends for quite a few years. So we were talking about it and we said, well, let's go together. It's great. What are the, you know, cause this guy was a legend, whether you believed him or not, it didn't matter what believed his research, I should say, or not. Guy was a legend. So we went and to see the care that he took that, that isn't even conveyed in his books or even as lectures, but to see that firsthand, he was there pulling boxes.
You were friends with them at this point or you became friends?
and it was an amazing experience because you realize the amount of research that he did and he was one of those researchers which you don't see nowadays that would pick up the telephone and he would call people you know nowadays we're like let's just send an email maybe i can linkedin him you know uh no stan would pick up the phone he would figure out where people lived
I respect that, I really do. It's always intrigued me, his determination on MJ12. Again, he knew that I differed a little bit on it, but friends to the end. Sadly though, he had passed away a couple years ago.
So you're conflicted about MJ-12 because you admire Stan so much, he believed in it, but you don't. At the same time, you want to give a bit more credence to what he believes in because you feel like he's such a great researcher, so it keeps that door open a bit more. That's exactly it. Yeah, and one last note that I'll add too that always kind of intrigued me was I have a huge collection of FBI files.
And one angle that Stanton had never really pursued, likely because it really didn't go to the legitimacy of the MJ-12 documents, was I had went after all of the FBI files of every single MJ-12 member and every single MJ-12 member had all or part
of their FBI file destroyed. All a coincidence? Maybe, but there are millions and millions of pages of FBI files that have been released over the last quite a few decades, and yes, document destruction does happen.
But the odds to have all of the MJ-12 with either all or some of their file destroyed I always found intriguing. One last note, the FBI also has a file on Majestic 12, on MJ-12, the documents that we've been talking about here. And it essentially has a copy of the documents, but there's handwritten bogus on it across.
Handwritten bogus? Sorry, what does that mean? To ensure that nobody thought that they were real top secret documents. Meaning someone came about and wrote with a marker the word bogus. That's correct. Yeah, because the FBI determined that they were bogus. And so when you have a document that says top secret at the top,
You don't want that misconstrued as actually being top secret if it's a bogus document. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to know is the standard like bogus sounds like a colloquial word though. So that's actually FBI lingo that they use frequently. I mean, I don't know how official of a term it is in this particular case. That's what they did off the top of my head. I can't think of any FBI file that I've gotten not that I've searched for it, but on any document investigation that they've done to figure out legitimacy.
And please don't read into that. I don't think off the top of my head I've ever gone after one. Majestic 12 exists, the file on that, because
According to the FBI, somebody had found copies of these alleged top secret documents in a hotel, I think it was, and they sent them to the FBI and the FBI began an investigation to see if real top secret documents were laying on a hotel floor or if they were a hoax.
Now, they ultimately determined that they were bogus. And again, I don't know if that's an official term, but I'll have to look into that because now I'm morbidly curious. But the root of why they believed they were bogus
was the FBI initiated contact with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations or AFOSI and AFOSI had said to the FBI, well, we investigated this given now what you have told us and they are a hoax. So then that went back to the FBI, FBI writes bogus and the case is closed.
So I revisited the file a couple of years ago and started tracking down the Air Force Office of Special Investigations files on what they did on MJ-12 because again, the FBI stuff still exists and they determined it was bogus based on what AFOSI said. So that's what you do in FOIA. You just kind of just keep going for leads. AFOSI. Yeah, Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
And so I filed the request to them and found out just in the last few months that everything related to that was likely destroyed.
So all of it is gone. None of us can find it. So I'm trying to look into the National Archives in hopes that maybe they had archived it there, but sadly this is another puzzle piece in history that was lost. So some skeptics point to that FBI file. So this is the bottom line point here. Some skeptics will point to that FBI file and say, well look,
You know, the federal government looked into this and the FBI deemed them bogus. But the root of that goes to a file we will never be able to access. There is no way to figure out why they term them as bogus. We just have to believe it, you know. So that doesn't prove anything other than another frustrating puzzle piece is gone for good that we'll never be able to find.
What occurs to me is, is this field, this UFO field, UAP field, does it have more destroyed documents and misinformation than a generic field of the government? So for instance, the NSA and what Edward Snowden had leaked. I don't know if it's the case that prior to Edward Snowden, if you were to try and investigate it, you would run into as many dead ends and lies and so on. In other words,
Is this just a generic problem of the government or is there something special about this topic, this UAP topic? When it comes to destruction or secrecy or both? Destruction. So with destruction, I can tell you that the CIA is the most problematic that I've seen, that I know of, that has lost and or destroyed UFO documents.
This goes back to material that cites UFO physical evidence that was collected by the CIA years after the closure of Project Blue Book. The documents heavily redacted, and there's quite a few of them now, I've got them all in different articles and stuff, but what I do is I pull these documents that were released, a lot of them in the late 1970s, some in the early 1980s, heavily redacted.
And through what's called the mandatory declassification review process, it's like FOIA, but essentially it demands that an agency reviews a record. By now we've mentioned FOIA several times and so it's pertinent to give an overview for people who may be unacquainted. In 1966, a pivotal moment in American democracy occurred with the establishment of the Freedom of Information Act, colloquially known as FOIA.
Congressman John Moss spearheaded this legislation, which fundamentally reshaped the power dynamics by demanding government transparency. The bill's implementation aimed to satisfy the need for answers and accountability. Initially met with resistance from Lyndon Johnson, FOIA eventually received his signature on July 4th, symbolically reinforcing the freedom it sought to grant. Over time, the FOIA underwent amendments, notably in 1974, after the Watergate scandal, and again in 1996 to adapt it to the digital era.
This tool has been utilized by journalists, activists, and ordinary citizens to penetrate the bureaucratic barriers and expose the inner workings of those in power. Despite its inherent imperfections, FOIA remains as one of the few safeguards against governmental secrecy.
Now it's advantageous to go over how do you make such a request as well as what are the best practices especially what to make sure that you definitely don't do. Number one to initiate a FOIA request begin by visiting the official FOIA website located on screen as well as you can just go to foia.gov foia.gov click the make a request button.
Then you have to identify the appropriate agency. So for the UFO related information, a potential choice may be the DOD or NASA or the DIA or the CIA. Number two, once you've determined the appropriate agency, click its name, access this, you'll typically find an online form or an email address that you have to send your request to. Number three, you have to create a well-defined request. This is vital. Clearly specify the information you seek. We'll talk more about this in a moment.
Number four, just know that the FOIA officers who process your request, they come in multiple forms. They can be a record manager, they can have specialized knowledge of the documents, they can be an attorney. Number five, once you've submitted your request, expect to receive at least an acknowledgement and a tracking number. That may take about a week. Don't be discouraged if you don't receive an immediate response. Number six, if it's denied, you can always file an appeal. Analyze the reason for the denial.
As it may simply be a misunderstanding that can be resolved through clearer language or by negotiating the scope of your request. Number seven, throughout the process, just be respectful. Always be respectful. This can be difficult because you're frustrated, but approach them as collaborators rather than adversaries. That's what's most likely to receive assistance.
And number eight, exercise patience. Sometimes these can take weeks, even months, even years, apparently. So one common mistake is to submit a request that's too broad, such as, look, I'm seeking any available reports, photographs or other records pertaining to UFO sightings reported to the DOD between January 1st and December 1st of some year. Please provide digital copies of these documents if available.
Although this request sounds specific and clear, it's still overly broad. To make it even more precise and targeted, consider the following. I'm seeking reports, photographs, video evidence and incident evaluations specifically associated with the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program and the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force within the
And through what's called the mandatory declassification review process, it's like FOIA,
But essentially it demands that an agency reviews a record and what was classified 15 years ago may not be classified now. So they re-review the original and then essentially redo the redactions. Sometimes you end up where you started. Other times redactions are lifted and you get some stuff revealed. Other times I've had more redactions added. Go figure. But that's essentially the process.
And so I went back to a lot of the more interesting CIA UFO documents requested an MDR that the CIA would look through all of these things. All the interesting ones, they're gone. The originals, poof, they shredded them, lost them, can't find them, so on and so forth. I can tell you when it comes to everything that I researched, because you and I are just talking about UFOs,
I've got over 3 million pages, close to 3.5 million pages now on all sorts of topics. You pick a government secret, I've generally done something on it. I can tell you UFOs and UAP are the most problematic. Why?
It seems like I can get nuclear weapons documents and secrets that way declassified than I can UFO material. Why? And that's actually true. I've got a big section on nuclear material. I wasn't being facetious. So why is that? You know, why do some cases when it comes to UAP, why are they so incredibly problematic? Why is the government so adamant about covering it up or destroying records?
And again, the CIA is the worst at that, but the DIA and the NSA also have lost each and every one of their redacted pages on UFOs. This is also provable. And I had received those in the late 90s, around 97, I think, is when I really received both the NSA and DIA material. And when I requested an MDR, this is probably 10 years ago now, on all of that redacted material, because there's a lot of it.
And you realize that both the NSA and the DIA, they did not want to tell you everything about UFOs at the time. But fast forward, maybe they will. Requested that MDR. The NSA was up first. They told me they lost each and every one of the pages, all of them. And then the DIA was up second just because they're a lot slower. And they essentially said the exact same thing. Not the same documents. There's no connection with the NSA, but it's the same topic. And all of them were gone. They couldn't review anything.
So the question mark is why? Why is it that I run into more problems like that? It's not a statistic bias either, meaning yes, I do a lot of UFO related requests, but I also I would say my non UFO related requests outnumber UFOs.
That will probably surprise some people. But the non-UFO requests outnumber UFO-related requests. And statistically, I still have more document destruction, lost information, or problems with UFO-related requests than all other topics.
One of those weird things. So for me, you hear a hearing, like the recent one with Kirkpatrick, and he says, the majority of them are all clutter, identifiable objects, so on and so forth. What he doesn't tell you is that through FOIA, I went after every single video from the US Navy, specifically, that was tagged or termed an unidentified aerial phenomena, or now it's anomalous phenomena, or UAP.
They found videos, they won't tell me how many, they found them, 100% of them classified across the board. They won't give me any of them. Now, they claim that sources and methods, so I'm going to pull the MQ9 Reaper drone just as an example. Everything the MQ9 photographs or videos is classified. A review process has to take place for that to go out into the open. We just saw that in the recent hearing.
that they can blur all the sensitive information that's on that video and release to you what they want you to see. They can do that.
Yet they denied everything for me with the U.S. Navy and the Department of Defense as a whole also recently denied the exact same thing. So that would include the MQ-9 since it's Air Force. But now I'm getting into semantics. But the whole point being, how is it if the majority is trash clutter and identifiable objects, how is it that everything is classified? It doesn't make any sense. So it's like the public is hearing one thing
but documentation is saying another. And again, the biggest rebuttal that I get, especially through social media channels, is sources and methods. Because the government uses that excuse, so some people want to back that up and say, well, it's obvious the information is gathered by a classified platform, so they don't want to tell you. All of that could be true, except we have now ample evidence just in the last couple of months
that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that they can release that imagery once the sensitive information is blurred. We saw that in the UAP hearing and then we also saw that with the MQ-9 shot of the Russian aircraft that sprayed it with the fuel, if you remember that, early in 2023. That was released within days of the incident.
My whole point being is that classified platforms are taking videos all the time. And when the government wants you to see them, there's absolutely no problem for you to see them. So they can't fall back on the sources and methods. To me, that's null and void. They've proven that. So now it comes down to whatever the UAP is, is the classified part of the video. There's no other way to look at it because they've proven they can strip everything else out.
and they can show you the object. In the MQ-9 example with the Russian jet, they can show you this jet come in, spray the fuel. In the UAP hearing, they can show you even what they call a UAP coming through the frame, and you see all these blurs, but again, proving that they could do it if they want to. And yet, with everything else, they won't do it. So for me, there's something there. That's not sources and methods. We can get rid of that argument.
Uh, that's not foreign technology because they're doing, they're showing it already, you know, they're showing that Russian aircraft. If it's classified foreign technology, okay, we can start putting an argument up, but hundreds of cases, that doesn't make sense either. So I think that there's something there that's still worth pursuing, but the government is trying to make you forget about that.
And I'll close this thought with my favorite analogy, which is the greatest trick of a magician. Look at my right hand so you don't see what my left hand is doing.
They want you to look over here because they don't want you to see right here. And that is the absolute best way to summarize government secrecy and cover up. And it's something that has gone on well over a half a century, not only with UAP and UFOs, but pretty much with any secret that they don't want you to give. There's always a smoke screen or something that makes you look the opposite direction. And I think that that is what we are seeing unfold right now with UAP. So currently the smoke screen is balloons?
I think so. And what's on the left hand? If you were to speculate. Yeah. Well, I think you still have a... My guess is not as good as yours. Trust me. Well, now I'm curious on that. So the way that I would answer it is this though, when it comes to the balloons, is that you have documented incidents from the reports that are seen not only by the human eye or the pilot, but also multiple instruments. So you have multi-sensor observations doing
maneuvers according to, again, some of these documents that have come out that are not balloon-like. So you clearly have other aspects here. Are these stealth aircraft from Russia or China or Iran or North Korea or whatever that are flying over our training exercises? Okay, let's have that conversation. It should be out in the open. You know, we had the balloon conversation, so why not a stealth aircraft or something that exhibits these characteristics that they're seeing in UAP? Let's have that conversation, but they're not.
So they want you to see these balloons. And again, the media latched onto that story in large part and started connecting UAP to these types of spy platforms. To me, there isn't that that connection yet. Like they haven't proven that it's the swamp gas of today. Drones a couple of years ago, balloons today and both.
Ironically, going back to that form, both were mentioned on getting those UAP videos declassified. But again, just a very weird coincidence that you're talking about drones and balloons and that's what most skeptics will call them fall back on.
And it's mostly and by skeptics and this one I will say because he's I consider him a friend. I don't know what he considers me. I like McWest a lot. I think he's great in this conversation but he's one that I got into a public conversation with recently where essentially you are making a determination based on not having all the evidence. You're saying that about him or he's saying that about you. Correct. So he's essentially saying that this is all
explainable and and and I'm paraphrasing I mean I wish I could bring up the tweet because I hate speaking on other people's behalves but so essentially he's saying that he's got his conclusion that there's not extraordinary evidence there because we haven't seen it and my argument is it's clear they are hiding everything they admit to hiding everything the videos being the main point here where they don't want you to see anything they will tell you one thing
But they're not giving you the evidence to support it. And so I made that point recently on social media with the clip of Kirkpatrick saying, you know, the majority is all identifiable. But then I source link to my story about the Navy denying 100% of anything they termed as a UAP.
So those two things don't coincide with each other. Because you would think that the Navy may not be able to release everything, and I understand that, but I would at least get a couple examples of trash, trash, bird, plane, whatever, blurs all around, but you see a Cessna going through, fine, let's back all of this up. And that's my biggest problems, I'm speaking in general now, with skeptics that fight this topic.
We are being denied all the evidence. We don't even see any of the data, with the exception of a few little clips in the hearing. We see nothing and skeptics are arguing saying, well, there's nothing to be seen there. Well, I mean, you haven't seen everything yet. And that's the problem. You can't make a conclusion without all the evidence.
and then chastise others for making a conclusion without all the evidence. That's my whole point here is that if you're truly going to be unbiased, then let's get all the evidence. If we're being told we're being denied evidence, don't state a conclusion yet or at least fight for the evidence with us. To Mick's credit, he has. There was an effort to get
Data released and information released. Luis Jimenez with the big phone home. They did a petition, you know, different types of petitions that you can copy and paste and send it and send into your senator. And Mick West actually did that. He joined everybody else. I have a lot of respect for that. That's awesome. That's why I like him, you know, but most skeptics don't. They just have their conclusion and that's it. My argument is we definitely don't have all of it.
and that to me is is uh... a big question on why because if we really are going down the same path as we did in the fifties and sixties where everything the majority of is explainable and that's fine let's see that information you can show us and don't fall back on sources and methods because every time they speak about it in my opinion they're putting their foot in their mouth deeper and deeper because the things don't make sense they don't match up
Leave the UFO arena and get a lot of other material easy, but when you stick with UFOs and UAP, all of a sudden it becomes really problematic and their excuses make no sense whatsoever. So a brief analogy would be if someone had a deck of cards, you can't see them, they reveal four of them and they're queens, and then someone in the back is saying, the whole deck is queens, why are you here? And you're saying, well, we haven't seen the other 48 cards.
Yeah, and that's a great way to put it. I mean, the likelihood of them all being the same to some people, the likelihood would be they're all Queens. But to others, the likelihood would be, well, those are the four Queens in the deck. The rest are every other card in the deck. Depends on your mindset and how you look at it. But regardless, both parties still don't know. And that's my argument is that at the end of the day, we don't have all the pieces of the puzzle.
There's this old joke about an engineer, a physicist and a mathematician. They're in a plane and they go by this island. Well, they see this black sheep and then the engineers like, oh, wow, the island is filled with black sheep or their black sheep on this island. And the physicist pipes up says, actually, we can only say one sheep is black. And the mathematician says, actually, we can only say that half of the sheep that we see is black. Do you feel like people don't give Luis enough credit for the big phone home and the good that he did with that?
I think Luis Jimenez doesn't give himself enough credit for what he did. The reason I say that is I think that he has shifted a little bit based on the postings that I've seen. And by a little bit, I think I mean a lot a bit on his viewpoint on this. He feels duped.
He feels that there's not a whole lot to this and again I don't want to speak for him but the impression I get from his postings and he and I remain friends. I like the guy a lot. I think he's a great dude but he's definitely shifted his mindset. He won't do another big phone home as far as I'm concerned or that I'm aware of. He's changed the scope of his show and I think the root of that is the
Forgive the phrasing, but the heaps of BS that we have been confronted with since 2017. People get frustrated. People really do. The hostility just doesn't exist on the side of those I-wanna-believers.
The hostility can come up from people that are so upset because they feel duped. And I'm not gearing that just to Luis Jimenez, but rather there's quite a few people that have gone from believer or someone who felt that there was something to these phenomena worthy of scrutiny to, oh my gosh, I was duped. Forget this. Some we still see on social media. Others we don't. Others have just gone.
Unfortunately, you see that with people that only had the experience of the last couple of years and have realized that there's been a lot of BS that has been slung. That's the easiest way to put it. And some people just don't have time for it.
I love it. I have a day job that has nothing to do with the black vault. I work about 70, 80 hours a week, but I'm very lucky. I built that business and it allows me to sometimes check in on social media. I have four monitors in front of me. I can keep screens up to just kind of pay attention. As I do a lot of daytime work on screen number four, I can peek to screen number one. I'm very lucky in that regard and kind of pay attention, so to speak.
Others don't have that luxury, and they want that bottom line. They don't want to feel duped, and when they do, they're out. And I don't blame them. It's frustrating. I'm a very outspoken advocate for saying, do not look at the last five years and judge the UFO topic, because it's a mess. It really is.
There's a lot of people who think I'm a skeptic out there or a debunker. And to be honest with you, I'm skeptical and I don't mind debunking, but it's quite the opposite for me that I believe there's more to this. Can I prove to you there's aliens flying over us? No. Do I believe that 100%? No. But I'm not a skeptic or a debunker. You got to look at my 26 years. But in the last five or now close to six, I guess,
When you look at what we've been confronted with, we can't be afraid to challenge it, right? We can't. And we can't be afraid to find out somebody lied to us. We have to find out why.
None of that kills the 50 plus year history to this topic. 75 plus year history to this topic. There's too much. There's too much material that has come out from the US government supporting that these phenomena are not balloons or drones. They're not. It's just plain and simple. We have surpassed the amount of time in the world of government secrecy.
that if some of these objects that are within government documents 40, 50, 60 years ago, which do exist, that display characteristics that we didn't have at the time, which is true, going faster than this faster aircraft that we had on record at the time. I'm not trying to give a shameless plug, but I documented that in the book behind my head. And the reason I say that is
The book behind your head is?
And so what I do is I highlight some of those documents. So I apologize. I'm not trying to give a shameless plug. People would want to be able to find out more. I appreciate that. But my point being is that we've surpassed the part that I think we would need to get to that if these were secret government programs,
if these were something that was being tested at the time that we would have learned about it by now. I guess the general rule of thumb, or at least it used to be, we're about 30 to 50 years behind hearing what they're actually in development of, meaning the general public. So we hear about it roughly 30 to 50 years after the fact.
Well, we've far surpassed that at this point. So when you go back and look at some of those older documents, and admittedly, to some people, they're going to be snoozy. It's like, I don't care what happened in 1952. Well, you should, because at that time, the Freedom of Information Act didn't exist.
There was no concerted effort to be careful about what you wrote down. Rather, it was just documenting that information, the experience, the case, what they saw, what that UFO or in using their phraseology, flying saucers, what that was.
And there was no fear that one day some John Greenwald guy would come out and start pounding the government for answers through FOIA. Rather this was all written prior to that. So you kind of see that it's a little looser when they put things down because nowadays, yeah, there's going to be some more caution on what you're going to put in an open channel. You're going to make sure that it's in proper channels because people like me can
FOIA and go after it. But again, we should have heard about that technology that can connect to those past cases and you don't have it. But one thing that I've spoken a lot about is the government tried that actually, namely the CIA with the flights of the U-2. And they tried it at, I forget what year it was, but it was essentially the dawn of their Twitter account when CIA joined Twitter. And one of their first posts or most popular ones was
Paraphrasing slightly, but do you remember all the UFOs in the 1950s? That was us and a link to a declassified document on the U2. It was a joke or they meant it?
They meant it. They were trying to because the document itself then connected the U2 flights to some of what people were seeing at the time in the 1950s. Well, the problem was that the U2 didn't even get off the ground until the mid 1950s. So you're not talking about the 50s. Here's talking about the latter half of it. But then on top of that, there was really not one major UFO case that I ever saw that was ever attributed to a U2 flight.
Meaning now we know all the U2 flights. Decades ago we didn't know that, but now they've all been declassified. You can track the history, you can track the documents, see where they were, see where they flew, see the altitudes. All that stuff is declassified because again, that 30 to 50 year rule, all of a sudden these secrets start trickling out. Yet when you go back decades to this UFO material, there's no connection there. Absolutely none. So there was no connection to the U2 in my opinion that the government was trying to connect.
So I filed a FOIA request to the CIA seeking out all of the research and communication they did to structure that tweet. As silly as that sounds,
The government agencies, they get in a lot of trouble when they post things out to the general public and it's wrong. Wait, hold on. Sorry. You filed a FOIA for what precisely? Why did they make the tweet or what was the... Right. So as the CIA, they don't just tweet stuff out. There's an approval process. There are people that need to be involved, fact-checking what image is the CIA going to have by this particular tweet, so on and so forth. Sounds excruciating. Just a tweet. It is. Look, it is.
But what's great about it is the paper trail. And for people like me, I dig that. And so that's what I did. I went after that paper trail. This sounds like a joke question. Is there a paper trail for also what do they heart and retweet? Like, do they have to have a reason for bookmarking, for hearting, for... Well, since bookmarking I don't think is public, I don't think that that would be a protocol. Liking, I would imagine there wouldn't be a paper trail, but more so a social media manual.
So protocol manuals on who manages the social media account. So yeah, I'm sure there's rules and procedures for a like or a share. I'm guessing there probably would be for a share, but the likes probably not, but I'm sure there's procedures for it. Okay, going back to your FOIA request. Yeah, no problem.
So I filed the request for all the emails, all the research, you know, what did you guys base this on other than the document they posted, but like who did this, right? Well, the names were redacted. That's a standard and pretty common. But essentially the email exchange was this. Again, the names were redacted, so I can't name them, but
The one person goes to likely a supervisor or a boss and says, hey, what about this? Because it was world UFO day around that time. So they were trying to like latch on to world UFO day and put out the tweet, you know, in the email print printed it out. The supervisor essentially said, yep, looks good. And that was it.
Now, some might think, well, okay, well, that's standard. It's just a tweet. Well, that's generally not how it works, that there are drafts and like they really kind of get into this, especially if you're making the claim that you're taking credit for UFOs from the 1950s. But that was it. That was the basis and the extent of the conversation. And I got those emails out and that was it. But why I bring it up is it's laughable.
Because it that's essentially how much research they do on UFO related statements Roswell is another prime example, you know, they change their I don't know what to think about Roswell I'm not here to argue that it was a flying saucer alien craft that crashed But what I do find funny is the fact that they needed to change their story four times over the course of decades and what I did was I dissected the fourth one and even that doesn't line up they were trying to blame and
The alien bodies, I use quotes because I don't know, but the stories related to alien bodies, there's quite a few people that were first-hand information sources that have passed away, but their stories live on and then others secondhand, but there were quite a few stories. They tried to blame that on Air Force crash test dummies. The problem was that Roswell happened five years before crash test dummies were even invented.
So they're trying to attribute things that didn't even exist at the time to something that happened in 1947. They also said that multiple Air Force crashes were a few Air Force pilots were either injured or killed. There were multiple crashes. Those happened both nine and 12 years after Roswell.
So how is that connected, right? But that's what the Air Force says. And again, anybody can fact check that. So why is it that every time they speak to UFO related cases or questions, they can't get it right? They just can't. And when you're talking about the majority of identifiable objects, which is what they want us to believe present day, why is that?
You don't. And I say somewhat because, look, the reality is like we talked earlier,
Drones, balloons, spy technology and classified platforms are part of this conversation, whether we like to believe it or not. It just is. That's the reality. So you're encroaching on classified material. So you're obviously going to find denials and you're going to find roadblocks. That's expected. I get that. I navigate those bombs all the time on all sorts of topics, but not like this. And that's what's kept me interested for 26 plus years because they can't get it right.
And that's what I can't explain. I don't know. I can't prove it's aliens to you, but I can't prove that you can rule it out either.
you know based on the information at hand if they released everything we can then have a different discussion but the reality is is that they're holding on to so much and in some cases the most valuable data that visual stuff a hundred percent of it or near one hundred percent that makes it impossible to rule anything out or believe anything and and that's what i think we need to really tackle is why is that secrecy there in the first place because their explanation does not make sense
Does your frustration ever turn to bitterness? You know, bitterness is a good word for it. I get angry. You know, you can't help but not. My record for waiting alone, let's not even talk about the FOIA games, waiting is 14 and a half years.
Imagine waiting for a request to be processed for 14 and a half years. It wasn't even a UFO related request. The result wasn't even interesting, but it was 14 and a half years. That's incredibly frustrating. The games that are played, connecting it to the UAP topic, one specific one is one that has frustrated me to no end. I've been fighting it now for two years. The US Navy, when it comes to UAP related requests, will randomly close the request.
And say that they will add responsive material to their online what they call reading room. Excuse me but they they close the request so there's no way to track it and you don't get updates you just have to like sit on the page and refresh it and I recently found cases that were closed a over a year ago UFO related.
that had never been added to the reading room at all. So I've been fighting it, but these types of games make it so incredibly hard for researchers and for people like me, FOIA requesters, to make sense of all of it. And when they play those games, yeah, you can't help but be bitter.
But there are those that really do want to help. Honestly, there are some great FOIA officers through some of the agencies. There are some that are awful and they're just not into their job at all. There are others that are there to help. And if they don't know,
They're open to listen to you. In some cases, I've helped FOIA officers on sometimes where to look for stuff and I laugh about it, but just because I've been doing it for so long and sometimes this is just their assignment, especially with different military facilities and stuff like that. Sometimes they're just there for six months and they get assigned and they got to learn on the job and so on.
You have a wide spectrum of people to deal with and and it does get frustrating you become bitter but at the end of the day I try not to I try and swallow all of that because The only result is to give up for me, you know, and and I'm not gonna I don't want to so I just have to swallow all that sometimes it'll come out my frustration comes out in a letter and usually when it does it's it's well deserved and
But you just can't give up. I mean, that's what they want you to do. And if you stick to your guns, you could be doing it for years or like me, more than 26. For them, they're likely not going to be in that FOIA office.
so they may upset you but they're likely not going to be there indefinitely so they'll they'll move on to a different office or whatever and then you can either try again or hopefully your frustration will subside but yeah it gets challenging i ain't gonna lie it is it gets pretty rough sometimes
It seems to me like what happens, and this is just from my cursory glance of being in, I'm not in this field, but of surveying it, is that people get into this because they feel like it's consequential. It's a meaningful subject. They look into it, then they're confronted with misinformation and disinformation. They put a stake in the ground saying, I believe in this or I don't believe in this.
You nailed it. I ain't gonna lie. There's no way to rebut that. I think that people get into this because they're curious, they want answers. Some people have more time than others, but
those that get into it and they see that BS, they give up. We've seen it. I spoke about it previously a little bit, but you absolutely nailed it because those people don't have time for the BS. They want the answers. There's a lot of good people out there that may even want to believe. They may even not know how to research. They may not know even how to ask the right questions. And I don't chastise those people at all. They're curious. They're there. They want to learn. They want to read. They want to
understand and that's why I get passionate about the topic because there's so much there to think about, so much real stuff to think about and to explore and to learn from and to kind of scratch our heads over and to expand on. We need more people to ask those important questions or try and get more answers.
And that's why I get passionate because when you see the BS slung people buy it hook line and sinker and there's nothing worse than realizing you were wrong to believe it in the first place. So the normal reaction is
See ya. I'm done. I'm out.
that are here to learn. That's what this is all about. Because the implications behind it are much more than figuring out a program name or an acronym or did this study UFOs or not.
All of that stuff is just, they're small puzzle pieces that I care about because I love history. But this all sits on a foundation that is much more important. And we question ourselves, we question who we are, we literally can question our place in the universe. If any ounce of this is true, if any small percentage truly does connect to an extraterrestrial whatever, that to me is what's worth it.
And for people to give up on that curiosity that they have because they were lied to, that's awful to me. I hate it. I really do. I think the field, if you want to call it that, has lost some great people.
due to their bitterness, their frustration, and their anger over what they experienced. And in the cases that I'm referring to, first-hand experiences. And they felt duped, and they feel lied to, and they feel that this is a charade, and so the two words, I'm out, and they leave.
And I think that the field itself has lost a lot of great people because it deserves the attention. It deserves a scientific scrutiny and it deserves the human mind to look at it. It really does. I wouldn't be around. I don't have time to waste my time on something. And yet I feel that it's worth it because I think the root of it is important. And I think there's enough evidence to support that those that want to should stick around and know that those that are
being caught in lies or maybe out to be malicious or
Whatever. Fill in the blank. It's just part of the territory. I don't know why that is. It just is. And we have to kind of learn to differentiate that if they say, and I'll make it simplistic, look, I researched this house and the house is blue, then fine. Prove to me that the house is blue. Don't say, trust me, bro. You know, and that's been kind of the ongoing joke that a lot of this is now the whole trust me, bro. You know, I've got anonymous sources and I pull my hair out with the whole anonymous source thing.
I really do because people base their stories, claims, tweets, blogs on all these secret anonymous sources and it's solely based on that. There's a room for anonymous sources in journalism. Don't get me wrong. But when you solely base your claims and in some cases or most cases,
Those claims are astronomical. It's just not going to cut it and it doesn't do the field any good to make these empty promises. And that's again going back to what I was saying a few minutes ago. That's why I get passionate.
That's why I get outspoken. That's why I get myself in trouble with some people. And I've learned to really try and just swallow it and not go after people. But yeah, sometimes you get angry because people don't appreciate, I think, the reality of what this topic is and the seriousness of it. And when you don't allow other facts to maybe change your mind, I have. I've changed my mind a thousand times over the years.
That's okay. We have to be okay with that. There's nothing set in stone yet. But too many then fall victim to the, my mind's made up, don't bother me with the facts mindset. And then they will go after the curious minds that I were talking about. They get chastised to death. And then they go, you know what, I'm done. And they leave. And it's a shame. Let's talk about some specifics now. What are your views on the Wilson docs? What have you uncovered? Sorry, Wilson memos.
Yeah, it's a hot, hot, hot topic in the last few years and it's one that I think is fake. And that's based on a couple of different things. When the story first surfaced, look, I don't just automatically dismiss.
But obviously I was very skeptical. There were a lot of anonymous sources that fed information to hear to there about the root of where these documents came from. That bothered me from the get-go, but I looked into it anyway. I was getting asked the question a lot and so I didn't mind looking into it.
What I found was the majority of the story, believers in this document will disagree with me, by the way, but I'm going to say it anyway, hinged on a what they called NRO document or National Reconnaissance Office document that was taken by, I guess, Stephen Greer and Will Miller and Edgar Mitchell to meet with Admiral Wilson in the Pentagon and essentially was giving them a
MJ-12 keyword list, majestic, magic, all these different keywords on this document. Well, this document then set Wilson off, according to the story, set Wilson off on his journey to find these UFO related programs, ended up finding one or more, got denied access, and he decides to come back and found Dr. Eric Davis, met him,
in a dark street on a, I mean, I'm making a part of these, but it's like a movie, you know, meet some, meet some in Las Vegas. They have their conversation. Eric Davis writes down these notes and essentially the legend is born. Well, the problem now going back to that's an incredibly nutshell version of the story, but the problem with the start of the story is this NRO document. The NRO document is tied to a Dr. Steven Greer.
and Stephen Greer has a controversial past. Without going through that part of it, the document itself, in my opinion, is an easily proven fake.
I did a full video breakdown of it. There's a lot of reasons why, but the short of it is you have quite a few errors within it. You have the wrong seal at the top. It actually has a US Air Force seal on it. The National Reconnaissance Office has its own seal. It's not part of the Air Force. People have tried to argue this. Look, no argument makes sense. I think that people have realized it's a hoax after I made this video.
The believers in the Wilson Davis documents have now said the NRO documents are relevant. This is what set Wilson off on the journey.
I'm surprised that they didn't even really fight me on the legitimacy of the document. They just kind of are now removing it from the story. And they're saying, well, it doesn't really matter what Greenwald says. The document is fake, but who cares? It's not the glue to the story. Well, okay, fine. Moving on from that document, the problem then is the whole idea and concept
that an Admiral, a former J2, would violate a security clearance, come out and talk to Dr. Eric Davis in a car and allow him either to take notes or have it, you know, essentially being put out into the open. I mean, those guys both have security clearances, Davis included. So the likelihood of that would be incredibly nil.
uh... people fall back on the notes uh... saying wilson stated if it ever came out he would deny it so wilson has denied he's gone on the record with uh... journalist out of florida and he denies the whole thing well the believers go aha the notes said he would deny it ergo it's true i'm like well okay you guys gotta look at the anatomy of a hoax here i mean you can clearly set up these these types of
There was talk in the first UAP hearing about the Wilson Davis notes.
And I just, Politico quoted me in this. I called it a facepalm moment. And it was just like, oh God, like what? Of all the history, of UFOs, of all the documents that are available, of everything that you guys can throw in front of Congress, all of a sudden Wilson Davis comes up. And I called it a facepalm moment, but then I started thinking about it after the fact and Politico published their piece. And I stand by my quote, but now I'm like, throw them in front of everybody.
Put them under oath and ask them. Sorry, I meant them, but throw them in front of everybody and put them both under oath and have them tell the story. And if Wilson still denies it, then where do we go from there? And just call it a day. But the problem for me is that's not what we should focus on, in my opinion, because I just don't think it's a legitimate thing. Other people have, and I want to make sure I add this in because I'll get a lot of hate mail,
from your fans that that may support this document but the idea that there are factual tidbits woven in in this document meaning i think oak shannon had a health problem who is one of the individuals named
and who I consider a friend also, Jay from Project Unity, had actually tracked down Oak Shannon, and I give him a lot of credit for that, because he added to the story. He tracked this guy down, did an interview, and although the guy didn't say, look, these notes are real, he essentially confirmed the part where he had a medical issue at the time, was very hard to get a hold of, he was the guy that allegedly Admiral Wilson had contacted,
To ask about eric davis credibility right so this guy comes out and it kind of confirmed the health issue and so then the argument began well look if it's a hoax how would all of these real facts get in there.
No one's considering the fact that if it is a hoax, and it was written by someone that had the knowledge of the details there, that it would be from a very small select group of people. And sadly, when it comes to these types of government people, a lot of them stay around each other through history. You know, the Dr. Howell put off, Eric Davis, all those guys have found themselves in very tight-knit groups through the years, through different programs and research endeavors.
And so look, I'm not, I'm not accusing Davis of writing it. I'm not accusing put off, but rather it doesn't surprise me that you're going to have factual elements in a hoax document. So you can't rely on that. You can't say, well, this guy really did have health issues.
Ergo, it's a real document. I'm not saying this, but I could easily come back and say, well, you've only supported the fact that he had health issues. Maybe he wrote it. I'm not making that claim, but that rebuttal has just as much weight as saying that the documents are confirming the existence of crashed alien spacecraft.
so you know you you do have that debate there so not to go off on a tangent but but I said earlier in the interview how you have to drill in to every single aspect to these phenomena these cases these photographs these videos every single thing and you gotta put it under a microscope the same is true for document that's you know eight nine pages whatever it is you have to look at every little thing you have to look at every
fact that you can squeeze out of it, every potential fabrication you can squeeze out of it, who is involved and so on and go from there. And I just think at this point, you don't have anything to support that these notes were legitimate. Many fall back to the fact that they were found in Edgar Mitchell's estate. I don't think that that's refuted, nor would I refute it. I'm sure that they probably would be.
I shook hands with Edgar Mitchell many times. I met him through the years, lectured at the same conferences. There was a very young me picture in my early lecture days and him next to a stage. So I met him. And I can tell you he was an amazing individual and American hero. But amazing individuals and American heroes can get duped as well.
And so whomever gave him those documents, it doesn't automatically make them gospel that he kept them in his archive. So I think that a lot of the arguments that are going to say, look, they were in Edgar Mitchell's estate. Oh, that doesn't really matter. This tidbit was real. Well, that doesn't really matter. We need to get actual verifiable proof. If you're going to say these notes confirm alien crashed spacecraft,
and that there are secret programs investigating that in the private sector that deny even a J2 access to it. You gotta do a little bit more than that in my book. So the counter is, hey, you're saying that someone made a hoax, gave it to Edgar Mitchell, put in some fact about Oak Shannon sickness that you would have to uncover decades later by interviewing sources, by interviewing people.
How likely is that? Is that the counter? No. In fact, for me, the counter, and I'm not saying it's a script, and this really upsets a lot of people out there, but in the video breakdown I did, I used a script as a potential alternate explanation.
that if somebody was creating a fictionalized scene of something that was happening, this was a way to do it. You have real people, you have real events, you pull in real facts. When you read it, it's even using a bunch of exclamation points that
Interrupted and there's like scene cues what we would call scene cues now I wrote scripts for quite a long time for yeah I noticed that as well when I read that I found that odd and I hadn't seen than any other document But I haven't read several other documents like you know well there's an in fairness There's not many that allege the same thing or have the same type of backstory, so it's kind of a standalone
a standalone issue here where you kind of have to start from scratch and evaluate this thing. But yeah, the way that it was written was a little bit unique. Now, if somebody wants to put a pile of Eric Davis notes in front of me and that's how he writes, cool, we can have that conversation. But for me, I used a hypothetical alternative that in my opinion had just as much evidence to support it.
I pulled a script, I just happened it's in my shelves behind that curtain back there, but I have a script from around the same era of essentially scene setups the same way, the dialogue the very similar way. You dissect what was popular at the time, it were paranormal themed television shows. You look at, I think Jonathan Frakes was hosting one, The X-Files was popular,
So I was using that as kind of like this potential alternative that in my book had just as much supporting, circumstantial, barely any evidence to support it. But why not consider that? If you're truly unbiased, you'll consider both. I can consider that it's real. Absolutely. Somebody shows it to me tomorrow.
You can air this to your audience. I would believe it. If I have enough proof, I will change my mind. That's not a problem. What interests me are the people that will come down on you and never change your mind, won't even consider it. And to this day, I get people that have their sarcastic, oh, it's like Greenwald thinking it's a script again or something like that. I stand by it. I mean, it had all the hallmarks of being a fictionalized creative account of an event.
And I even went into, I mean, you can start filling in the blanks, but Davis had recently lost his job around that time with Robert Bigelow. Yeah, you want to go on a stretch? Hey, what if this was concocted for him to save his job? Like, hey, look, these are the types of meetings that I've had.
And it got out of hand. Copies were made, passed around. Edgar Mitchell gets a copy. He was connected to that group as well. Again, that's a hypothetical. I'm not placing the accusation, but rather all of these are plausible scenarios. And the argument to tell me that there's a secret government program that can authenticate crashed alien spacecraft, that's great. But you can't tell me that these notes prove that.
Right? It could be 80% verifiable facts, but that does not tell me that crashed alien spacecraft is here or are here and the government has them and is hiding it from you. We've got to do better than that. So can Congress, I guess, pull those guys under oath and see what happens. But when people, and I hate to speak in generality, I just hate to like
say this person or that person. So again, this is part of the more bigger conversation. You see this a lot in various articles, even published in mainstream articles where if Wilson says no and denies it, he's a liar. He has a security oath. He has to do that.
If a military officer decorated comes out and says something that they want to believe, however, they saw a UFO. It was a tic tac shaped object that was going speeds that they had never seen before.
That's automatically gospel because they're the military. How dare you go against the military and deny what they say? And that to me is such the hypocritical mindset of some of these debates that if a military person says something and you label them a liar, what's the difference between that and somebody coming out from the military and telling you something you want to believe? And yes, a lot of those authors will do that hypocritical stance.
And that's what's frustrating. We can't just rely on military background as a carte blanche acceptance of whatever they say. In the same respect, we can't just, well, they have a security clearance, we have to believe that they're lying. Or the note said he would lie, so ergo, he's lying. Those are all silly mindsets to be in. I mean, if we are going to start saying,
What is the Baghdad Phantom?
So, Baghdad Phantom was one of the videos Jeremy Corbell has leaked out. I am not a fan of leaks. Anybody who follows the Black Vault, I like to get things legitimately. I'm not a fan of leaks. Mostly because 99% of the time they don't pan out.
What has intrigued me about Jeremy is that his leaks have panned out. His videos do get comments that I've received from the Pentagon. We'll get a comment for the most part of them being utilized by the UAP task force. The Baghdad Phantom was a little bit different, but I pay attention to Jeremy Corbell. I don't agree with his stance on everything, but pay attention to him because he obviously has connections. He's obviously bringing stuff out.
The Baghdad Phantom was one that was recent. I was surprised it didn't get more media attention. It really didn't get a lot at all and is a, what we think, what we're told, a UAP, an unknown object streaking across a video. I think this particular one was taken by an MQ-9 Reaper drone. We keep hearing about the MQ-9s a lot and was over a war zone. So that being said,
With it being a leak, we don't have more than that. We're told it's a UAP, but we don't have more than that. At the recent UAP hearing, something interesting happened where another Warzone footage video was shown, where it had a ghost-like image trailing behind it. It's the only best way to explain it. And I had noted that from the Baghdad Phantom, but some people thought it was an exhaust.
and what i did was posted on twitter and i can send this to you is that when you look at the object which was a make sure i get the camera angle right more of a cylindrical object you had essentially the exact same uh... length images behind it in repeat it's like a ghost image pardon the pun with phantom but it was like a ghost image of the image not an exhaust plume and and
oddly that came up in the UAP hearing that they were talking about that being an artifact on the video that again not the Baghdad phantom but something very similar was having these ghost-like images trailing behind whatever the UFO was in the case of the hearing they claimed it was a commercial aircraft
that that particular one they were able to solve. They showed one other one that also oddly resembled a Jeremy Corbell leak. That was the Mosul Orb, I think is what Jeremy called it. Not the same video, but similar object. So did the Pentagon plan that or is it just a commonality between all their cases that they're primarily seeing these long cylindrical type objects on the
Jeremy Corbell's leaks.
What they are, not really sure. Because with leaks, it's hard to verify anything beyond what we're told. We don't know who the source is. We don't know where it exactly came from. We don't know what the government considers it. Not that the government couldn't or wouldn't lie to you, but in essence, there's nothing to go by. So it's a little challenging to figure it out. I did file a FOIA request though to
dig in a little bit deeper. I do have reason to believe that there are more objects from the same time frame in the same region. So I have filed FOIA requests on that as well. We'll see if they come up. But interestingly, I think the one that the government showed was within the same 60-day mark in the Middle East that something was going on over there. I don't know what it was, but
What about the Ukrainian UAPs?
I will be the first to admit I'm not a scientist. So a lot of times when you start getting into science, math and calculations and stuff like that, it's going to be over my head. I'm fully aware of my limitations when it comes to that. So I didn't dig in in that regard. But to me, I don't think it was as impressive as some of the media made it out to be or some of the people wanted it to be in the general.
you're talking about a war zone you're talking about something that there's gonna be so much in the sky so for that when you're saying there's too much noise it could be may not be let's move on we have others that are exactly what about that triangle shaped video that Jeremy had put out quite some time goes green I don't know if that has a name the pyramid yeah where he alleged they were pyramid shaped UFOs I think Mick West and then full credit to him
Put up an excellent argument that those were, I think the correct pronunciation is Bokeh, Bokeh, but essentially that is the shape of the iris of the camera and that they are not pyramid but rather everything in that sky has a pyramid shape and somebody involved in his Metabunk discussion forum did a replication of it with a very similar or exact
Night vision scope with the same type of triangular Iris in there and came up with the same result to me. It's identical so
In my book, you could put it to bed. It's my understanding that there were other people there who saw with their eyes something triangular as well. So then how does that change the claims of McWest about it being an artifact? Or does it just not factor in you say, well, well, I think I'm channeling my own inner McWest here and saying, OK, show us that data. I think that when somebody gives you a story and they say this is a video of it and then you debunk that video and they go, well, that's not necessarily the video, but I've got testimony.
Well, it's like, well, wait a minute. Didn't you just argue that these were the pyramids? However, I think Jeremy Corbell still stands by, the last I'm aware of, still stands by that that video represents pyramid-shaped objects. So he's not even accepting the alternative explanation for the video and then falling back on testimony. He's doubling down on the video itself. And I mean, I guess if that works for him, I just think that when it comes to the evidence that we can look at,
that can be dismissed, in my opinion. I think that it's replicable, plain and simple. So I think that that puts the video to bed. If somebody else has a story, great, we can hear it and go from there, but I just think too much is working against that one. We'll move on then. Does the government still investigate psi phenomenon, psi tech, remote viewing,
They claim no, and I haven't had any documentation of it, but you look at what they've been doing through the last however many decades, it won't surprise me if when I'm 70 that in 2022, 2023, and 2024 they had some
Citech research program and that's what makes it very challenging with researching some of this stuff because they really can deny things for decades and and then you find out later on they go oopsies you know we didn't tell you guys but your grandparents were right you know and so I don't see any evidence of it but it doesn't surprise me especially this this day and age they're all looking for a heads up on on their intelligence capabilities versus their enemy
What have you uncovered about the Phoenix lights?
So my connection with the Phoenix Lights goes back to 1997 when the government actually came out with their original explanation of flares that were launched that night and so on. I filed a request to Luke Air Force Base because with the FOIA, very quick note, you kind of look for back channel ways to verify claims. So you can't just say, you know, give me all documents you have of aircraft flares that were misinterpreted as
You gotta find other ways to look for it. And so what I was going for were tower logs and any flights that were in the air that could be attributed to the dropping of the aircraft flares that would be connected to the Phoenix lights.
What I found out in writing was Luke Air Force Base said that they were they kind of put two and two together on what I was going for. They said even though it was said that aircraft flares from aircraft launch from Luke Air Force Base were to blame, Luke Air Force Base did not have any planes in the air, nor did they drop.
any aircraft flares. Lynn Kitai, Dr. Lynn Kitai, she did the documentary on the Phoenix Lights. She, I know, was citing that letter a lot because that was black and white proof that the Pentagon said one thing, but the actual evidence said something else. And it was like the Pentagon said, okay, like we got a problem here in Phoenix. Let's figure out an explanation. Somebody came up with flares. They said, okay, great. Put that out into the into the ether.
Yet nobody called Luke Air Force Base and said, hey, by the way, if anybody asks or anything, this is our story. Luke Air Force Base was quite the contrary, like, hey, we didn't do anything that night. Later, it changed that it was some classified mission or something with the National Guard. But this is another one of those examples that what you are told just kind of keeps shifting after you disprove the story than another tidbit
So is that true? I mean, maybe, but again, whenever it comes to these UFO types of stories, usually if you push hard enough, you realize that that original explanation just doesn't make sense. And then they'll change the story to help kind of draw it out a few more years until the point no one cares.
If there was one case that you could get the truth on, you feel like this is where there would be the most uncovered. Which one would it be? This is a little selfish. This is the case, the four page government document that got me interested. I've always had a connection, an emotional connection to it because that launched me on my journey. But it was a 1976 Iran case.
Where according, I go by the documentation, because one of the pilots ended up coming out and kind of contradicted the documents a little bit. His story was a little bit more, I don't want to say exaggerated, but just more in depth. And so I think it was a little bit harder to prove his story, but per the documentation,
There were multiple UFOs that were seen, and I'll just quickly summarize it, but main object, call it, I hate to use the word mothership, but that's the only way to describe it, that was seen over Tehran. There were multiple UFOs coming out of the sides and underneath it. It showed intelligent control per the documentation where originally one of the pilots thought it was an incoming missile.
and it goes to fire back at the object, but all of his instrumentation and all of his control panels shut down. The incoming object then made a dip and looped around his aircraft. It was a F-4 Phantom Jet that he was flying. So whatever this unknown object was dipped, went around his aircraft, rejoined the original UFO, whatever that was. Another one landed or hovered right above Earth.
as the documentation goes.
event that happened after meaning like what happened after this thing went to the ground it just kind of skips that part and then the pilot regained all controls the next morning they go out and investigate the area there was some local residents they saw a bunch of flashing lights coming through their windows they were terrified they didn't want to look out they have no idea they said that they were collecting soil samples and that results would be forwarded when available
Why I think that's a fascinating case is just how it unfolded. It was 76. There's still no adequate explanation for it. It was shown to shut down strategically two F-4 Phantom jets. I mentioned one, but there were actually two that were scrambled to go intercept this thing. What happened after the object either landed or hovered above the ground?
And then on top of that what happened to the soil samples, that is not found anywhere. I've searched high and low and everywhere for additional documentation. There's nothing. So that's what set me off on my journey to create the Black Vault and have this information online for free because I believed in people having access to it. And it was that one case that really taught me not only the FOIA, but the importance of having this information.
And I think that if I had to pick one, it would be that. One of the others is I'm intrigued by the UFO material that was shown in the CIA in 1975, I believe it was. I've got the documentation on that. Again, heavily redacted, but whatever it was.
It was connected to a UFO, did not have an explanation and what the scientist at the CIA had recommended was all redacted and they lost that document. So we'll never know what it was but it's clear that there's physical material from something unknown of unknown origin within the CIA or at least there was at one time.
So what does your research show about the Rendlesham Forest case, if I'm pronouncing that correctly? Yeah, to be honest with you, I've never really done a whole lot on that particular case, I hate to say. I'm familiar with the story a little bit. I never dove into it. We did a television series on it that went into syndication, but beyond that, I hate to say, I just don't have much to add to it. How about the Virginia case?
That's obviously going to be a James Fox question who did the recent documentary. I'm intrigued by it. I used to host a radio program with a Dr. Roger Lear. He passed away, sadly, quite a few years ago, but at that time when he and I were doing the radio show together, he had come out with one of the original books on it. Him and AJ Gavard, I think, worked together on the case. I've always been intrigued by it, but it's one of those cases in UFO history
that at this point, there's a lot of big claims, but there was nothing at that time anyway to put in front of anybody and say, hey, look, we really believe that we have some type of alien connection here. But that was quite a few years ago. I have not seen James Fox's newest. I'm looking forward to it, but
You know, that's another one of those cases that I think sounds great, and I'm looking forward to seeing what's there, but up until at least a couple months ago before his documentary came out, I just didn't see anything that was the hardcore proof that everybody's looking for. I don't like to ask a question like this because I'm not a fan of just asking people to comment on people. Those are my favorite questions. Sure, this was a question that was upvoted plenty. What are your thoughts on Jacques Vallee?
You know what? I met Dr. Valet only once. I've very rarely talked to him. So I'm not going to have any type of, you know, opinion in that way because I have no experience with him. I think I just shook hands with him once and that was it. I don't think we had a conversation. So I've been very lucky in that regard. I've met a lot of people at these conferences, but he's one that I've never, never went beyond that with. Nothing I can really say good or bad. I just, I'm familiar with his reputation. What do you make of the Salvatore Pius Petens?
To repeat my not being a scientist, they're going to be over my head. I'm intrigued by them, but the fact that there's patents available, I think that it's probably a brilliant mind creating something that he's patenting, but I think people really read into what that was. At least that was my broad stroke view of it where I'm not going to understand the schematics of what he has in those patents.
But I think that the internet being what it is kind of made it take a life of its own that the Navy was doing, you know, these exotic and extraordinary craft and stuff like that to where people like that they they have these designs. I mean, the patent office is full of them and
You know, he's just one of many that have done it. So I think the story got a little bit overblown a little bit. But I mean, I'm intrigued. If some of that technology ever comes to fruition, I'm obviously going to be all eyes to see it. You know how you mentioned you have about three and a half million pages that are online? I presume you haven't had a chance to go through each of those pages because... That's a lot. Yeah, that's almost 500 a day. So how do you make heads and tails of it?
Yeah, so a lot of documents I get that are sometimes more historical, historical records, 300, 400 pages. Unless I'm really interested in reading that book, sometimes I just will scan it, put it online, or if I get it digital, you know, put it online. So no, I would not pretend to say I've read all three
Yeah, and soon you'll be able to use a large language model to crawl through it.
Yeah, OCR has to get a little bit better for that. I'm really excited about the implications behind it, but some of these older documents that are decades old and old typewriters, OCR has to be incredibly strong to decipher all of that text for a machine to essentially make sense of it.
Alright we have something super large to announce and I want to take you through the whole thought process. So firstly let's talk about how is it that I came up with 500 because many people are interested in these napkin calculations. So John said that hey there's 3.5 million pages so I just rounded up to 3.65 million pages. Why? So that I can divide it cleanly by
the amount of days in a year 365 divide that that's 10 000 now he said that he's been doing this for 27 years or so or 26 maybe even 25 so what i did is just reduce that to 20 and then divide that so that's approximately 500 there's a whole video on just doing physics calculations and how you can calculate the size of a black hole for instance from just a napkin calculation
We also talk about why the wave function is not a function, how to approximate the length of an atom, how to calculate the pressure in a neutron star. Alright, now onto the announcement. A machine learning website which was inspired by John saying that he has a multitude of FOIA documents that aren't indexed. I wanted to create an app that actually uses the latest AI to crawl through his documents, but there were problems.
John said that there were millions of pages. I remember thinking, there's no way, John, they can be million. No, there are millions of pages and they're extremely large. They're strewn across several servers and hard drives. Remember that this is 26, 27 years of John's life. Keep that in mind. All that I'm doing is that I'm coming in and saying, hey, John, your documents, you've gathered them for decades. Some are searchable and some aren't. You had so much intensity and
If you have any examples, if there's anything that you could send over that you've seen on my site,
that you feel is kind of representative of what you feel would be used in such a model. I would love to help. I just am not 100% sure if
Those documents would be worthwhile to you. So anyway, I'll stop blabbing, but hopefully that gives a little bit better of an impression. I'm around tomorrow. If you want to chat, I'm driving right now. If you can't tell, I'm going to pick up my son and then heading over to my daughter's school for a dance recital. So daddy duties kind of kicking in.
So anyway, I look forward to hearing from you and I'll hopefully talk to you soon. All right. Now at this point of the conversation with John, I said, hey, I'd love for there to be an integration of a large language model with your PDF. Why doesn't this exist? Then I thought like, hey, I have some coding skills. They're not terribly efficient, but why not try and create this myself? So then what happened was I ran into certain hurdles. Like I was watching videos on here's how to chat with your documents.
and I thought that this would be what I need but it's more like here's how to train a large language model to mimic the style and some of the knowledge but not precisely of the documents and I wanted it to be factual I wanted it to cite specific PDFs if you ask it a question a question like what types of medals did the US government find at crash sites I wanted to bring up well here document number three says this and here's a PDF that talks about this and it shows the excerpts
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you as well, thank you for taking this call, I appreciate it. I've been looking for a service where I can give it a set of PDFs. I would like to be able to, with natural language, have people query it. Well, for instance, if you say, can you find an inconsistency in the document about the weight of a box? Then it'll say, yes, I found that on document 2 it says the weight is 30 pounds, but on document 40 it says the weight is 80 pounds.
He seemed to be going through with this but then turns out that this project was a bit more intricate than what he was developing so we had to not go through with that and I'm thinking okay
Come on, I want to release this episode for you all. I want to come out with this tool. This will be fantastic. If when this podcast premieres with John, there's this tool that the community that people are interested in UAPs can actually use. So I was dismayed. And then I remembered, Hey, I went to this conference in Florida, this mindfest conference where there were several extremely competent people who are experts in machine learning.
And in fact, there was one that stood out among the rest and we became friends. His name is Dan Van Zandt. It's a fantastic name, Daniel Van Zandt. And he has this company called Cephalopod AI Solutions. So I contacted Dan and I told him my frankly insulting budget, which is essentially nothing. But then he decided, he's like, you know what, Kurt, I'll work with you because I believe in this project. And he also has some familiarity with FOIA requests himself.
which we'll talk about. From what I understand from you, the MVP is just a person can put in a text query in a chat GPT style way, get a chat GPT style answer, text files that are linked to the PDF. So that won't be a huge issue. I'm curious how these files are named. We're going to need to have the total data size and the approximate amount of pages we have. I don't think there's been too many people that are
more altruistically motivated like you who are making FOIA requests. Yeah, I'll think about it. One feature that you have mentioned that would be fairly easy to implement is the trends. Are these documents dated at all? How many queries do you think this is going to be getting, say in like the first two months or something? And then how many do you think it's going to have in one day at its height?
That's important for load balancing. It's at this point that I asked Daniel about his experience with FOIA requests. I'm decently familiar with FOIA requests because my lab actually makes them quite frequently. It's amazing the things that we'll think of as we're kind of on the cutting edge of AI and we'll find out, oh, the military did this 20 years ago and they just haven't told anyone about it.
until now. They were using microfluidic computers for weapon systems and based on what they can target. So like these large guns on battleships and things like that. And to us and to the field, this was like a brand new undeveloped idea. Some people had done something with it at some point, but the military just casually came back at us and basically told us, yeah, we've been working with this for 20 or 30 years. And we've been working with it enough that
And by the way, there are timestamps in all these videos you can always skip to sections that you like. I think it'll be extremely fruitful to understand the process and the mindset that went into creating this tool that you're about to see so that you can understand the context and see where it may lead to. Another hurdle was that we had to take these PDFs or Dan had to and then convert them to text TXT files and yet to create certain efficient prompts for that because they're scanned documents so it's large and in size and it's difficult to read as well for people, let alone a computer.
so we contacted some people who had or claimed to have ready-made solutions IBM was one of them we contacted them had several meetings with IBM with some of their tools and I thought that they would have a free version of their tool or just a couple hundred USD like 500 USD after meeting with them so many back and forth they said hey for the minimum amount it's 5000 USD and I was just like
so so disappointed like oh my gosh man why is this so difficult and that's just the first stage five thousand dollars for this we contacted another developer working with them closely and then they said okay here's the cost
It's one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. I'm not even kidding you. One hundred and eighty thousand dollars for a year of this service, which is actually a great service, a fantastic one. It's almost exactly what we're looking for, except far out of our budget, far out of our budget. I would say functionality wise, it's about done. What I've been doing today is I've been doing some load balancing and some other things like that. Really boring infrastructure type things, but they still take a decent amount of work.
to make sure that it can handle about 4,000 requests per day.
It's not huge, but that's a pretty substantial amount. It should be pretty much ready to go as long as you think the UI looks good. When you see YouTube videos on here's how to do something with the LLM, most of the time they're overhyped and they're for specific use cases and you have to use many different programs and many of them have interoperability issues. Anyway, what we've done is we've scaled back the project scope significantly. So rather than it being all of John's work, we've made it a percentage of a percentage and we've done so by crawling and focusing specifically on the UFO aspect.
because many of his FOIA requests don't pertain to that. Now, without further ado, here is the tool. Hello there. My name is Daniel Van Zandt. I am the owner of Cephalopod AI Solutions and I am so excited to present this new tool in collaboration with John Greenwald of The Black Vault and Kurt Jemungle of Theories of Everything. And so John Greenwald
has spent years collecting this really awesome resource of Freedom of Information Act requested documents. And Kurt had this idea and came to me about implementing it on what if we made this an AI database? What if we harness this new power of LLMs like ChatDBT to be able to talk to the database, get answers, and almost compose a mini research report for the user?
As opposed to the user having to search through each PDF themselves and slog through it and make it harder to see patterns. And so I will jump right into things here and just show you how it works. So I can ask it any question. I think that I'll ask it a question about UFOs. I'm going to ask it, what are the main types of UFO sightings?
And so it takes a little bit, but what it's going to do is it's going to go to that database and it's going to dynamically find parts of those PDFs in the database that could answer this question. PDFs don't have to have exact keywords. They just have to be related somehow. And so it's already come up with an answer.
And it says there are various types of UFO sightings. The most common are of course astronomical sightings. It's got close range sightings on the ground are most intriguing. Most UFO sightings can be attributed to the misidentification of known objects and phenomena. So you're going to notice that it says snippet 12, snippet 6, snippet 2, snippet 3.
These are references to these and so you can see a shortened version of all of these snippets down here And if you click on them, so it's signed as snippet 6 on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. That sounds kind of interesting I'm going to go down and I'm going to click on snippet 6 and it's going to show me the full context that it dynamically chose to feed into the LLM
And so here it is. It's somewhat ugly because we OCR'd a bunch of PDFs and they're just not a way to do that well without getting some ugly text, especially when the PDF stands, but it's still very much readable. I can see what it says. Kishu Suits.
stars bright celestial objects are main culprits and UFO sightings they fool many advanced observers even pilots oh that's interesting and so i'm going to look at this and i'm going to see that it mentions airmen and mentions pilots uh and i'm going to ask it have there been any extraterrestrial
sightings from the air force uh because that seems quite interesting to me and so you can see i was able to ask a question i was able to get a summary i was able to go down to the snippet i was interested in and then i was able to use that to generate another question and this has been one of my favorite things to do even as i've just been developing this is
Getting into it and getting deeper and deeper into the questions. I don't know if you've ever gotten lost on Wikipedia or you've ever gotten lost Googling and learning about something, but it's a similar type of feeling. And so it popped up with something. According to Snippet 1, the Air Force has investigated over 10,000 reports of UFOs in the United States, which found no evidence that they represent extraterrestrial vehicles. Snippet 2 mentions Major Donald Kehoe.
He believes that the Air Force is withholding information about extraterrestrial sightings. That's kind of interesting. And so I'm going to look at what this says. So he thinks that the Air Force was withholding information for fear of causing a public panic. That sounds kind of interesting.
And then Snippet 6 suggests that the Pentagon has been involved in UFO research and may release documents related to the subject. Snippet 9 describes witnesses. I'm interested if there's more than one document on this Major Donald Geho and if there is one document I would still like it summarized for me instead of having to read through this sort of dense government paperwork.
So I'm going to ask it to tell me about Major Donald Kehoe and see what pops up. And so again, takes a few seconds, not too long, but such is the nature of this being sort of a cutting edge thing. All right. Oh, I got quite a few snippets on Major Donald Kehoe. This is sort of interesting. Major Donald Kehoe was the director of NICAP, the world's largest UFO research organization.
with over 30 subcommittees in the US and abroad. He wrote the book, Aliens from Space. Kehoe believed that the Air Force was suppressing information. He talked to Senator Barry Goldwater. So there's all these interesting things and I can look at these sources and I could dive deeper and deeper and learn more and more things all day and learn it so much quicker and easier than sort of looking through dense government paperwork.
And so we're able to, I know I watched some of John Greenwald's videos and he always talks about collecting the different stuff that we're able to access publicly from the government, the FOIA request and collecting it into important information and sort of reading between the lines and seeing the patterns emerge. And in my opinion, this is such a perfect tool to do exactly that.
So I'm excited to see people play with it. I'm excited to see what they find. And I can't wait to see what kind of questions people ask and what kind of things people learn. So you can go to this website, the black toe vault dot com. Remember, John's website is the black vault. So I just made a pun and maybe this website will change. But regardless, it's also in the description. The black toe vault to vault dot com. This is a tool that will be upgraded over time.
Over time we'll put in more features and there's even a feature request like what are your use cases? What do you think this tool could possibly do in the future? What would you like to see? Here's what I'd like it to include in the let's say the next year or so. I'd like to implement let's say GPT-5 so that you can ask it context aware queries like what are the documents related to sightings of triangular UFOs over military bases in the 1970s?
Show me the case that had the largest number of civilian eyewitnesses.
I'd like it to infer certain context from redacted statements. I'd like it to have the automatic crawling and indexing of new PDFs uploaded. So that is if you have a FOIA request or some other government documents you'd like to submit it, then it can easily ingest those and it doesn't have to go through a whole re-ingesting of all of the PDFs. It can just
I'd like to implement a time-based query system to analyze changes in the government's positions on certain topics over a specific period. I'd also like to have a site map where we implement a global map of locations of UFO sightings and the released files, a time series analysis
So you can see the, again, frequency of UFO sightings over a certain time and perhaps even scroll through it. UFO type classifier, that's interesting. So classify the different types of, let the model, the large language model classify the different types of UFOs based in the descriptions of the
A proximity search, so use the AI to help find UFO cases that happen near to each other and so propinquity in space and time. I'd like to have case comparisons so you can side by side compare different UFO cases. Eyewitness accounts aggregators collate the eyewitness accounts related to specific sightings. An AI hypothesis aggregator based on the context and the content of documents, the AI could suggest possible explanations. Sentiment analysis and of all of them this one seems like
the most easily done so you can analyze the sentiment toward UFOs within the government documents predictive analysis now that one's interesting implement a feature using whatever is the most cutting-edge tool to predict trends and patterns and UFO sightings based on historical data
Now, all of these features, every single thing above all needs to be above board and legal. And also, I'd like a developer to come on and just take this over and make this open source. This way it can be maintained by the community and transparent. I'm already extremely packed to the brim studying for Toe episodes for the Theories of Everything podcast. So if there's someone who wants to come on and help out with this, then please let me know. Anyway, you can enjoy the website right now. It's the blacktoevault.com. And maybe this URL changes because remember, this is all John's work.
just a bit of salt on his decades long sous vide steak that's just fall off the bone and and so toe is just like a hair pinky nail atop the giant shoulders of john the giant body of john and
The Black Toe Vault.com
Actually come to the full fruition of the vision of it, then definitely contact me and let me know. The contact information is on the website. You can also email toe at indiefilmto.com Also, don't forget this is John's work. If you want to donate to John, which you should, the button is on the website as well. And it's also in this description. Remember, this is John's work.
The most profound technologies are those that disappear. They weave themselves into the fabric of everyday life until they're indistinguishable from it. Why do you think that Black Hawk helicopters intimidate the people who are at the Skinwalker Ranch, seemingly intentionally? Okay, so Skinwalker is going to be tough for me, simply because I worked in television a lot, and I am not going to say any of those scenes were fabricated.
But what I can say from, and you're referring to, just to make sure I'm clear prior to answering, you're referring to what's been coming out on the show, right? Also, Brandon's personal testimonial, and I'm unsure if all of what he's saying has been documented on the television show. And when I say Brandon, I mean Brandon Fugel for people who are wondering.
Yeah, so then I'll make it quick with the television reference, because I think a lot of people do base the Blackhawks coming in from the television series. And to be honest with you, I have no idea if it's actually happening the way that the television show is conveying it. And I speak from experience with that just because I saw it so many times and I hated it. It's one of the reasons why I don't work in nonfiction programming anymore, simply because
There was a lot of fictionalized elements to non-fiction that I just hated. So when I see television shows like Skinwalker Ranch, and this is not against Brandon or the production staff, I know both sides of their production, it's not against them, but I don't know if things are embellished. I don't know if it's exactly true. Based on testimony itself, I mean, look, you've got a lot of military installations, truly everywhere,
But in places like Utah, stuff like that, you're going to have flights. I've had military helicopters come over my area here in a city called Castaic. It's in northern Los Angeles. There's actually not really a military base that close here, but they're around, maybe within 45 minutes driving or so. So they're close enough.
But I've had it. I don't read into it. They have flight paths just like everyone else, especially in those areas like Utah that's gonna have quite a few military installations. So are they buzzing?
Skinwalker? I mean, I'd like to see a little bit more proof of that. Why would they be doing it? And of course, again, everything has a paper trail. You can't just throw a Blackhawk helicopter over a private ranch in Utah and have it circle for no reason. But on top of that, you can't do it without a paper trail of some kind. You're going to have air traffic control logs, you're going to have where did it come from, you're going to have all that.
So I'm happy to help anybody who has those types of stories, Brandon included, who I actually like a lot. He seems like a really nice gentleman. I've spoken to him quite a few times. That doesn't mean that everything is coming out of Skimwalker's gospel, but I really like Brandon. But people like Brandon that have those types of stories, hey, I'm happy to help them and get those logs and figure out where this information can be
found and help support those types of stories. And I've done that with past UFO cases. I've got air traffic control recordings from UFO stories. I grabbed one from even the social media Reddit. And I was like, ah, well, let's see what I can find. And sure enough, found the actual recording. Based on that, somebody started feeding me UFO cases that were essentially being bantered about by the FAA. Started going after those too and getting some really cool results.
So, my whole point is that when people have stories, they shouldn't be discounted, but it's harder to base an opinion just on the story. Let's go for evidence, you know? And that's how I try and approach it, especially with those FAA cases. The story standalone wasn't impressive. Add FAA traffic audio to it? Yeah, it became a lot cooler. And that's what I mean by that. And so, yeah, if Blackhawk helicopters are buzzing Skinwalker or anywhere for that matter, let me know. I'm happy to help.
Let's imagine Brandon Fugal is watching this right now, your message is, hey, contact me, I will help you figure out what's going on with regard to the Blackhawks. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And
Full stop. I mean, I have no problem. I have no, again, I'll use the expression, no skin in the game either way to prove or disprove. If somebody says a Blackhawk was there, cool. It came from somewhere, so let's figure that out and go for tower logs. Prove that the flight was there. There's a lot of public sourced information too that could potentially show flight path and stuff like that. So if he says it's circling, I'm sure we could prove that too. And he's a pilot, so he knows that better than I do. John, what do you want to be remembered for?
I don't even know if I'll be remembered. I don't even really think about that. That's a tough one. When it comes to my public life, look, I want to be remembered as someone who cared about bringing the truth forward, whatever that is.
It can go any which direction, but I want to be known as that guy that really tried to inform the masses of what that truth is. More than that, a good dad and husband, but attributing it to what our conversation is, going after the truth and uncovering every piece of the puzzle that can be uncovered and giving the pieces to everyone else.
Alright, in two and a half minutes, we're going to talk to John about the Mojave Triangle from Jeremy Corbell. We also talked about Travis Taylor's connections to the government, as well as recently uncovered contradictions between the AOI MSG of the government and the redactions therein.
For now, since people seem to appreciate the summaries of the podcast, particular in the Daniel Schmottenberger episode, I'll summarize again what's been covered so far. We talked, of course, about government secrecy and cover-ups, and how John suggests that the government's smoke screens focus on balloons, and those are being used as distractions from the more significant UAP issue. John, while being a skeptic himself, in many ways, doesn't like what he feels as skeptics who jump to conclusions without all the evidence.
John challenges the authenticity of the Wilson documents. John disputes the Pentagon's explanation for the Phoenix Lights incident, revealing there were no aircraft flares that were deployed by Luke Air Force Base on the night in question. John talks about how his favorite case is the 1979 Iran UFO case, as well as he expresses recent intrigue toward the Virginia case.
You should know about other interviews that pertain to this one. If you like this interview, that is, then you'll enjoy the three interviews that we've done with Lou Elizondo. We've also spoken to George Knapp and Colm Kelleher. Actually, we've spoken to George twice, once on the Tonanza. So that's like this eight hour live stream. George Knapp appeared with Jeremy Corbell there.
As well as there's two episodes with Jeremy Corbell, there's an episode with Kevin Knuth, actually two episodes, if you're interested in the more physics angle when it comes to this topic. There's Gary Nolan, there's Diana Pasolka, there's also Avi Loeb, of course, Les Stroud, Salvatore Pius, for whatever reason. The heartful and earnest Salvatore Pius has appeared exclusively on the Theories of Everything podcast in video form. Sal holds a special place in my heart and you can see that connection as we speak to one another.
There's Richard Dolan and Ross Coulthart, Travis Walton, Tom DeLong, Linda Moulton-Howe, Stephen Greer, Leslie Kane. In fact, you can find all of these just on the playlist for the UFOs. And the link to that will be in the description. You should also know that this podcast is on Spotify and iTunes and virtually every audio platform that's out there. So if you're listening to this on Spotify or iTunes, you should know that there's a YouTube version with the video which has plenty
of context placed into the video, the actual visuals. And if you're just watching this, then you should know about the audio side. You should also know that there's merch that's available only for the next three weeks. It just opened up for season three, and you'll see that there's some specific references to Toe. Like, you have to be a hardcore fan of Toe to understand. Distoesher, for instance, that's a UFO one that we talked about on the Diana Pasolka podcast. Distoesher. I have a Toe fetish, that's hilarious. There's Toe socks, there's a Toe hat.
There's what Gary Nolan said, which is, the voices are back, excellent. There's don't thrust your toe, trust your toe. There's also this having mode and being mode, that one comes from John Vervecky. There's the toe cup, obviously a Theories of Everything cup. There's hey, we're not fighting, it's a theolo-cution. And there's a metal plate, a metal print of the Theories of Everything logo if you want that. Again, this is all exclusive to the next three weeks, it will not be offered after that.
You can visit tinyurl.com slash TOE merch. Also, the link is in the description. You should also know about the Patreon. If you want to support this podcast, that's patreon.com slash KurtJMungle. Over there, you get access, exclusive access to early ad free versions of the episodes. Additionally, you can always personally message me and request a question to be asked to a guest.
Now keep in mind that I don't care if someone pays or doesn't pay for a question. A good question is a good question. If you want to nudge me then feel free to do so over there. You can also ask for further contextualization behind something. You can also ask about upcoming guests and behind the scenes info if you like. Alright, now we talk to John Greenwald. So Jeremy Korbel recently revealed the Mojave Triangle UAP, the footage of it. Those are not aluminum rounds because aluminum rounds fall.
and nobody shoots in a five-gun section
Now, Jeremy Corbell and the co-host of the podcast Weaponized, George Knapp, say they have been looking into this since 2021. There's another image right there. He says, according to reports from witnesses, the whole thing only lasted about 10 minutes from 820 when it appeared to 830 when it blinked out. According to Corbell, it was seen by more than 50 people, many of them Marines. Explain what they saw. So please let the audience know what is that and then what are your views on it? What have you uncovered?
Sure. Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, who run the Weaponized podcast, have really intrigued me because they go against what I normally speak out against, which is excessive uses of anonymous sources. Now, in journalism, I totally get it. Anonymous sources, they're part of the game. I don't completely dismiss it. But when it comes to UFOs,
I always cringe when something is purely anonymously sourced, and generally you get that a lot. But why Korbel and Knapp intrigue me is the fact that their stuff actually pans out a lot of the time. So they have published these leaked videos and photographs in the past,
And to my surprise, despite there being no provenance whatsoever, the Pentagon has responded and said, yes, these are genuine videos utilized by the UAP task force. So although we can't get a ton of information, things start to pan out. Now with that preface, here's a new one that they dropped and that again always piques my interest.
And this was an event that happened on April 20th, 2021 over 29 palms. According to the story, there were 50 and as much as 80 plus witnesses that saw a triangular shaped craft.
in which multiple videos were taken, which are all great things, if true. Lots of witnesses, multiple videos, different angles, so on and so forth. So when I woke up the morning after they dropped this video, because they always do it at midnight and I'm long asleep to try and get in as much as I can with the kids,
I was really intrigued, looked into it, and for many, many years, just so your audience knows, I had produced television for History Channel, Discovery Channel. One of the shows I worked on was a show called UFO Hunters.
And I can tell you that we saw videos like this all the time. They got submitted to our executive producers or the network itself, and we would be tasked to investigate them. Now I'm bringing that up because when I saw these videos, they looked identical to numerous videos we had gotten in the past, generally around military bases,
Generally with an Air Force connection, generally with aircraft flares. So I thought, okay, let's apply the same tactics that we did on that show to this. Dug in a little bit and over 29 palms discovered that there was a training exercise that was going on at the exact same time. Now some argue, well, training happens all the time so who cares?
Well, the reason why we should care is the magnitude of this training exercise that does not happen all the time. So it just happened to have been going on at the exact same time. Digging in a little bit further, I was able to dig up visuals that were published by the Department of Defense, all unclassified, so there was nothing secret about it. And they've been online for actually two years.
One video that was, I would say, more damning than anything to solve this case was labeled to be shot the night of April 20th, 2021, the exact same date.
the last three or four seconds of this b-roll video for those that don't know what b-roll is it's just a compilation of footage for news stations and whomever that's covering this training exercise can get lots of different clips of various parts of the exercise while the last clip was about three four seconds of clearly aircraft flares
And you see the five bright lights and smoke coming down. It was clearly, you know, flares that were being launched as part of this exercise. Now, why is that important? When you take the UAP footage, there were five lights. When you look at the flares and contrast that with the UAP footage, they match.
And it's a fascinating revelation to see because they literally are five different lights that do not stay in triangular formation. Again, a lot of people are arguing, hey, wait a minute, how did they fly in a triangular formation? Well, when you look at all the evidence Jeremy Corbell published,
They're not staying in the same exact position whatsoever. They're not triangular. If you freeze frame, you know, this video or this frame, sure, you can get a triangular formation, but as you scrub through all of them, they do not stay in that triangular formation and kind of vary slightly.
with their elevations, seemingly like flares would. So it has created quite a firestorm by posting this stuff out there and showing the military exercise, showing verifiable visuals that match, all coinciding with the exact same time and location.
Now before I get hate mail, we're still trying to figure out exactly what time the DOD footage was shot. So I'm looking into that, I'm still working on it as you and I speak, but when you have an exact match of five different lights that are not in an exact triangular formation and they happen to match,
That to me is something you have to look at and really consider because the odds, I don't know what the percentage would be, but the odds of five lights falling that are clearly flares in this DOD video, but falling to the same odd formation of lights in a UAP video, you got to look at that. You just, you have to, but some people don't want to, you know, they want to say, well, there's witnesses that go along with it, which is true. But those, those are anonymously sourced.
At this point, two more voices have surfaced, so I think at this point there's four total. And those witnesses say what? That they saw it, but that's it? That they saw it, that they believed it was a craft, that they believed that there was structure in between the lights. They said that it hovered, that it lasted anywhere from ten to
30 minutes.
And again, I don't want to discredit eyewitness testimony. It's not about disrespecting Marines or what they saw. I believe that they likely did see something that they couldn't explain. But when you look at the videos, you can see these lights were miles into the distance.
And so they weren't near it which can explain certain attributes that they said didn't make any noise. Well if you're that far away flares aren't all that loud so you may not have seen it. It was also very very dark and they said that they didn't see smoke. Well given the distance maybe you wouldn't see the smoke.
So there's a lot of variables there where it doesn't matter about your training, it doesn't matter about your background, it doesn't matter about your IQ, it doesn't matter about any of that. We can all be wrong with what we think we saw. And I mean, some people hold the idea that if you question a military witness,
that you're insulting them. And that's not the case at all. It is less about what you believe, more about what you can prove. And what we can prove is what's in these videos and what the DOD has long published. Again, this is not new information. It's been out there for two years. The last thing I'll say too is it's been stated that this lasted anywhere again from about 10 to 30 minutes, but the video evidence that we have
The longest clip is 36 seconds, and that's it. The shortest is 16 seconds. So the question mark is, why do we have these limited visuals? And I can't get an answer to that, though I have asked, did Jeremy Corbell truncate the footage and only put out a clip? If so, why? Because that doesn't make sense. Or did he only get a 36 second clip, a 16 second clip, and so on? And if that's the case, if these Marines were seeing something that they felt was a craft,
Why only shoot a video for 36 seconds and go, ah, we're done. You know, that doesn't make sense either. So there's a lot of some of the footage is from Marines as well. That's that's that's what we're told. Yeah. I mean, it's not official footage just to make sure that that is stated. These look like cell phone video cameras or something to that effect. There are five of them, I believe that he released.
All of which again are very dark kind of shaky you can you can see the lights but they just don't stay in the same shape as the name suggests that triangular UAP label that's been put on it so there is that fluctuation so it's not official footage whatsoever and that was also contrary to what Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp have done in the past where they received
Videos from anonymous sources and then published these these leaked videos and photos But but are utilized in an official capacity and the Pentagon will admit to it
Fast forward to this one, though, again, completely contrary to the past. It is not the case. But then on top of that, the Pentagon says, no, there was no contact whatsoever. There's no record of any UAP reported. And on top of that, they did confirm what I had come out with that morning after, which was a major training exercise with aircraft in the air.
and what they called military assets in the air. So there was a lot of lot there to kind of go against what we were told and these unanswered questions on where's the extra evidence, why aren't we seeing it is all just kind of up in the air at this point.
If I got this correct, you don't trust anonymous sources, generally speaking, or you don't like when people come out saying, I have some evidence predicated on something anonymous. However, when it comes to George and Jeremy, George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell, they've done the same except that it tends to pan out, meaning that there's then some official corroboration afterward. So you look at their evidence differently than you look at the average person who says, I have something that's contingent on what's anonymous. Minor correction. I don't look at it differently. You're right across the board, but I, I,
I look at everything the same way, but I do get my interest peaked by them because of their track record of anonymous sources. I see. Panning out. And then when it comes to this, they said that it was something that's a triangle, except that when you look at it, it doesn't retain its shape. There are slight fluctuations that's consistent with if it was a flare and it was just moving a bit with the wind. Correct. However, then there are some people on the ground who said,
If it was a flare, why would it last for 20 minutes? But then you're saying, well, if it's lasting for that long, which players apparently don't do, but I don't know if that's the case. Maybe there are flares that do, but let's put an asterisk on that. Now, if it's lasting that long, why is there just 30 seconds? Is that about correct? Oh, yeah. And then at the same time, there's a Marine and then you want to give a bit more weight to someone who's in the military because they're familiar with flares. Yeah. And yeah, you're absolutely right. I just question
Number one whether or not they can be wrong because again military personnel can absolutely be wrong. But the other thing that I question number two is Jeremy Corbell has made the claim that he accounts for ten minutes of this timeline, right? So he by video footage at least that's how I've walked away from his interviews can account for ten minutes worth of the sighting if that's the case and
We haven't seen any of it. And that's what also kind of boggles my mind a little bit because he says that he wants to crowdsource information, which is a great mindset to have. The internet is an incredibly powerful tool. There's a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds that come from different walks of life that can throw in their two cents. Sometimes their expertise is a little bit more valuable than somebody else's, but regardless, that collective approach
is something that is so incredibly valuable and it proves itself time and time again. Yet in this case, we're told, yeah, I can account for 10 minutes of the timeline indicating these things were in the air for 10 minutes, which makes flares a little less likely and an arguably a lot less likely. But we've only accounted for seconds, you know, and that's what's very frustrating in something like this, because if you are crowdsourcing for ideas, put that information out there.
You know, and I think that so many people have, if you're willing to look at the evidence, sees that evidence and kind of scratches their head going, why is this getting publicity? Because there's so much to this topic that, in my opinion, deserves much more scrutiny and media attention.
yet this is like out in the open and media, you know, clums all over it and gets the story wrong. And it's not even about not reporting about the exercise or the DOD video match. Sadly, that's a pretty big frustrating thing for me to see. But it's less about that more about the fact that they don't do anything to fact check what they're reporting on.
So moving away from kind of like Jeremy and George, because I don't want to make it seem like I'm harping on them, let's say they just made a mistake. When major mainstream outlets report on this, there was only two that I've seen that actually made mention of the exercise, yet there was a ton of media coverage to it. Anytime a UFO story goes on to the Drudge Report, you get what I call copy and paste journalism.
And it doesn't matter what your views are on Drudge Report. That's an incredibly coveted spot to be in. So the minute an article goes on there, which in this case it did, all of a sudden all these other outlets cover it. And I'm not talking about like lesser known news outlets. I'm talking about CBS. I'm talking about NBC. I'm talking about Fox News. So you get a lot of that coverage and sadly it's just parroted
uh, same copy and paste journalism of the same wrong story. One even said that it was officially released footage by the Pentagon, which is like completely wrong. So it's like, how does that happen with this story? And, and it's frustrating for me just simply because you want that good attention. There's enough to give good attention. Sometimes it's not as sexy, uh, but it's true. It's verifiable. And that's what I would rather see the attention go to, but sadly,
Did anyone talk about how they saw it come in or leave?
It sounds like from the story that it was at different times, but in the same amount of period, like the whole thing just went away. And again, it's a little bit tough because you're hearing Jeremy Corbell convey from the witnesses, but the witness testimony itself, again, there's four of them, is fairly limited. But from what I understand of the story, the thing had vanished.
Uh, which is great, but the videos don't really depict that either. And again, when you compare it to the flare theory kind of coincides, that's what you would have. You would have the kind of the burnout, but the videos don't really have an ending. So you, you have this, this craft and you know, it, it's great that we have that visual evidence, but it really doesn't show you the same story as what the witnesses are conveying, but more so what Jeremy and George has conveyed to the public.
Mm hmm. I did a quick search. A general range may be between one and 10 minutes. Some specialized military flares may last even longer depending on their design and purpose. And certain marine distress flares such as those designed to be used by boats or ships may last up to 20 minutes or more. And then there are certain marine smoke flares that can emit smoke for much longer.
Anyway, if they all disappeared, like I don't know how flares work, or if they're extremely precise in their timing, like this flares meant to last exactly 10 minutes. And so if they all go up at the exact same time, then if they all disappeared at the exact same time, that could be consistent. But if they all disappeared at the exact same time, and they're extremely variable as to how long they last,
then well that's odd that they would all disappear like that unless they're all roped away for some reason at the exact same time I don't know why the military would do that yeah I think the argument at this point would be that they're what's called illumination battlefield illumination flares that essentially they're they're launched and they come down very very slowly and essentially will light up a battlefield one of the videos that it was said to also include
were these flares illuminating the object itself. And although that sounds neat when you look at the video, it could absolutely mean that the two flares that we think are illuminating the others are much closer to the camera. They're different types of flares. As you saw from your search, there's all these different types of flares.
that that are in this, you know, essentially this conversation that that this could be connected to. But I think if I were to, you know, bet a dollar, it would be these illumination flares and that they likely didn't last 10 minutes. One of the witnesses that Jeremy just published
I don't know.
That's not insinuating that he's lying, but we're talking about something that happened two years ago. It's human nature just to kind of round up. I mean, a lot of times when we're doing something in our backyard or in the kitchen or whatever, it could be five minutes, it could be seven minutes, it could be 10, it could be 12. And somebody says, hey, how long did you wash the dishes for? Yeah, I washed them for about 10 minutes.
You know, I mean, it's just around. So yes, it's important. This testimony is very, very important, but we need the visual evidence to back it up. So I go back to that that argument, like how can you disrespect trained observers like United States Marines? Well, it's not about disrespecting them. It's just about the evidence that was brought forward. And at this point, it just doesn't support the story.
All right, so let's move on. The DOD released something called an AOI MSG. So what is that? And then why are there questions raised over the redactions?
One of the documents that I love to go for are what are utilized by public affairs and these are called briefing cards. And various topics will get internal banter on how to respond to questions on, we'll say UFOs or something that's happening in Afghanistan or the Ukraine or whatever. These briefing cards assist the Office of Public Affairs with how to answer questions.
It also allows them to know what's unclassified, what is something that we can talk about as a government without harming any national security because obviously the press room, the journalists, if they're doing their job, they're asking questions that could impede on classified information. So these briefing cards will really aid in helping answer those questions.
and it really is a straightforward as them creating a hypothetical questions that could be asked and then you have answers.
And so when somebody asks it, you'll see this if you watch a press briefing, which are sometimes pretty snoozy to watch. But when you watch them, you'll see them go in their notebook, open up as the journalist is asking a question. Reason being is they have these answers prepared. So you hear a lot of lines over and over the same way. Well, it's because they're approved. They go through these approval processes. So one of the
Fun things to get my hands on are the ones related to UFOs because it breaks down the different UFO research efforts. It involves all the different angles of journalists asking these questions. And the AOI MSG was one of the few research efforts that were aimed to investigate UAP.
The current one is Aero, but prior to that was the AOI MSG. It stood for the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group. And when you get these documents, it really gives you a sneak peek into what they wanted the public to know and essentially what they didn't want the public to know. So both ends of the spectrum. So when I first got some of these documents about two weeks ago,
What was interesting was there was no redactions and it just kind of broke down what the AOI MSG was. Its approach to UAP, why it was doing it, all the stuff we've heard before was nothing earth shattering. But then a second request came in about a week and a half later where it was the same exact briefing card with the same exact date, but it had more information to it. Now, the first one did have a question about extraterrestrials.
And if a journalist were to ask about aliens, what was the response? And essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here, but the DOD was kind of getting away from that topic. They didn't want to talk about it. So they would push the answer towards NASA that the DOD doesn't look for aliens and extraterrestrials.
But NASA does, so essentially trying to say, hey, go to them because we're not looking for extraterrestrials or aliens. My quick argument to that is it doesn't matter if the DOD is looking for aliens or not, if they are truly investigating UAP.
And that slim possibility indicates that there is an extraterrestrial connection, regardless of if they were looking for it or not. They are looking for the truth, right? So we don't push that to NASA. We should be able to deal with the topic, but the DOD doesn't want to.
There were no redactions in that first release, but in the version that I got on the second release had a full redacted section after the extraterrestrial question about additional talking points. And I want to make sure that I quote the document correctly, but additional background information and in parentheses, not for release. And it was entirely redacted this entire section. The question mark is why?
Now, I want to put up front, it's possible that this section and this header has nothing to do with extraterrestrials, and that's fine. So I want to make sure that that's stated. It may just be a coincidence it comes after the extraterrestrial question. But the other part of it, regardless of if it's connected to extraterrestrials or not, what don't they want us to know in a public affairs document? One key point I may not have mentioned yet is it's unclassified.
So these documents, when it comes to public affairs, these types of documents are unclassified, so there's no classified information in it, simply because this is what they want to convey to the public. But in this particular document, these redactions were there. The legal justification, when it comes to the letter of the law, states that the DOD is arguing it is deliberative
process information. So essentially they're talking about something internally and they don't want you to know. So that deliberative process, that internal banter is potentially exempt under FOIA. That's a technical term, deliberative process? Right. So it's deliberative in nature. So the phrase that we've used a lot to reference, it's called exemption B5.
The phrase that we've used to reference this is essentially the exempt it if you want to exemption because they can, if they want to just cite B5 and fall back on that. And there's really no way to fight it. Now I have issued an appeal. I have wanted to, to fight this, which I am, and that's ongoing as we speak, but it is very, very hard to, to fight B5 exemptions simply because
It doesn't have to be classified. It doesn't have to be a threat to national security if they release it. There doesn't have to be an internal statute that exempts them from releasing the information. No, the reviewer just has to look at it and go, ah, it's deliberative. Let's go ahead and use B5. And that's why we call it on my side of the fence, not the government side, but my side of the fence, the exempt if you want to exemption. So it's frustrating to see
but again it begs the question of if if we really are dealing with a government that wants to be as transparent as they can
Yeah, I wouldn't say that the government is trying to be as transparent as they can.
They claim to be. They say they're trying to be as transparent as they can? Yeah. In the hearing, Scott Bray or Ronald Moultray or both, they were kind of saying like, look, as long as we don't have a threat to national security here, we want to be as transparent with the public and this, that, and the other thing. In the most recent hearing, so that was the first hearing, the most recent one,
Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick said something similar and that they were trying to create a website that people like you and I can go on from the public and download information from their UFO case files that they've released to the public. Now all that sounds great but nothing is happening and Kirkpatrick said that the upper essentially the upper echelon at the DOD has the draft
of this website in their hands and has had so since the holiday season of 2022 and has not approved anything and hasn't launched anything. So what they say in these hearings is wildly different than what they're actually doing.
So while the government hasn't been able to create such a website, me and you have worked behind the scenes to try and create some indexable natural language way of searching through your documents. And that website is the blacktoevault.com. The Black Vault is like 99.99999% of the work. I want to keep letting people know that I'm just like a hair on the top of John's head.
So just saying like, Hey, there's got to be like, you've done all this work across all these years, these decades, like, let's find some way to make it even more accessible using the latest technology. So that's the blacktoeva.com and whether or not that forwards to another URL that we change it to later by the time you hear this, who knows, but currently that's the website.
I'm super excited about that too, because obviously the buzzwords in today's society, even away from UFOs, is AI and artificial intelligence and how can those tools be utilized for our everyday work. And I'll be honest with you, I began utilizing it myself for things that I do, even unrelated to the Black Vault, but it's an incredibly powerful tool. But how can you take that technology and take that power and connect it to a database of 3.2 million pages of documents on
all sorts of topics or just the UFO section. What can be done with it? I'm really, really eager to see how this plays out and how the technology evolves and then how that can help us all with research and getting answers and trying to unravel some of these mysteries.
Yeah, and Dan, Daniel, person you've been speaking with, Daniel van Zandt, he said, Kurt, this wouldn't have even been able to be talked about being done six months ago. Like we're using the cutting edge. Yeah. These tools will continue to evolve and more features will be added. And who knows, maybe even it becomes I would like it to become open source and transparent in terms of the algorithm and how it's taking in the information and processing it. Yeah. And hopefully someone else takes this over because I just I like to theories of everything and studying math and physics.
And this was like a way, way, way larger project than I thought. Yeah. You correctly estimated it and I remember thinking, no, it's got to be easier than that, John. Yeah. But you know what's cool and on your point and Daniel's point is that six months ago, this wasn't possible. Now we're having the conversation. And even though we're seeing those road bumps and kind of concerns over the amount of data and how that's going to happen,
in a couple months from now six months or even a year from now you see the evolution of this technology and in my mind you really want to have a show that that how that technology will evolve itself and i think that there's going to become a point where all of a sudden you will run into these roadblocks
But the assistance of AI will help you overcome those roadblocks themselves. So even though I can't see it with my pea brain, AI might be able to or create some kind of algorithm that we could utilize that we never thought of. That's what's fascinating about it because what is impossible on Monday is commonplace on Tuesday in this world and that's what intrigues me the most about it.
Okay, so now let's lastly talk about a recent article on your website about the UAP Task Force and Travis Taylor. So just walk us through what is that about? What are your thoughts on that? Sure. So the UAP Task Force was yet again one of those efforts with many names. It keeps evolving name-wise and Office who controls them makes it a little bit frustrating for a researcher. But the UAP Task Force was an effort
to investigate UFOs, UAP, and by research and kind of digging into documents, had discovered a couple years ago it was likely led by a man by the name of Jay Stratton. And that has since been confirmed. But what wasn't really confirmed was who worked with him. Now, Dr. Travis Taylor, who's an incredibly smart individual, I worked with him when I was producing for History Channel many, many years ago before any of this UFO stuff
had broken with his connection to it and had produced some shows, talked to him, you know, throughout the production of those really, really great individual, incredibly intelligent. So as word started to kind of pass that these names were coming out,
Dr. Travis Taylor, I think, and this is partly a guess, decided to come out on his own accord to reveal that he was what was called the chief scientist on the UAP task force. Now you may not recognize Dr. Taylor's name per se, but if you watch the show Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel, wildly popular, he's one of the stars of that show. So he's been involved in TV for a very long time, involved in
classified programs with rocketry and stuff like that for a long time so his name was getting
kind of mixed into the paranormal through that show. But then all of a sudden he comes out and he goes, yeah, essentially the government was paying me to be the chief scientist of the UAP task force. It was a huge revelation. That story was broken by George Knapp. So credit where it's due. That had come out through him. So when that story had broke, anytime a new name comes out, I'm right there to take that name, connect it to FOIA requests and start seeing what you can find.
And when that story broke, that's what I did. I took a FOIA request and was looking for communications between Dr. Travis Taylor and his work at Redstone Arsenal and the UAP Task Force.
and because again that those were all provable aspects of his career we knew where he was in the army so if he was doing work with the UAP task force certainly there were communications emails stuff like that what I received back was
highly redacted yet again that they didn't want to tell us what was going on between Dr. Taylor and the UAP task force. There's an unknown number of pages that were sent to the Navy for review and hopeful release to me. So it could be a hundred pages, could be a thousand pages. I have no idea. They don't want to tell you. So I'm still working on figuring out a number. But that aside, I think there were about 28 pages that were released. Essentially all of them were redacted, but eight.
Something like that. So it was just a very high percentage of material that was redacted Same kind of thing where you don't really know a whole lot of reasons on why there was some information that was exempted because of the deliberative process and that was was considered deliberative in nature Some other, you know redaction citations. I won't bore you to death with but essentially they just didn't want to tell you so what you can deduce though from it was a
He was obviously involved so that kind of solidified all that even though we kind of knew that already it's it's nice to have documentation, but we also have other records that indicate essentially how they viewed themselves in the story.
And even though his name was redacted, it's pretty sorry how they viewed themselves. They correct. Yeah. So, so one email that although the name was redacted, it's easy to figure out was likely written by Jay Stratton. He was the director of the UAPTF. That's how he signed on the signature line, but they just redact the name. So a lot of times you can just deduce who it is. Um, but in their, in their email, he was introducing Travis Taylor to a team. We don't know the entire team.
number or who the names were, but was saying that Dr. Travis Taylor was going to help make their mark on history. And it was kind of this inside look that that's what they felt on the inside, that they were going to be making history running the UAP Task Force. And so when Taylor was introduced to everybody, that was how Jay Stratton said it, like, this is the guy that's going to help make our mark on history.
So it's a very interesting thing where even though you have all these redactions, it's interesting because you can start to see the mindset that they were in, that they believe that with the UAP Task Force, they were going to make their mark. They were going to change history. In what way? I don't know. I mean, we can kind of guess on that, but it is interesting to see that that's what they believed behind the scenes about their work in the UAP Task Force.
What's odd to me is that when someone works for the government, especially in this topic, like, let's say, Eric Davis, or at least allegedly works for the government, they can't do media. Someone like Travis Taylor, I assume the UAP task force is related to the government and is working for the government and then is allowed to have seasons on the History Channel about the same topic. How does that work?
Yeah, that was a big question mark from people like me and many, many others. If you're doing that work and you're working in a classified realm, all of that is 100% confirmed. There's no arguing that. So Dr. Taylor was involved in highly classified material and working on that at the same time working on a History Channel show called Skinwalker Ranch.
that was in the same paranormal genre. Imagine if someone was a CIA spy and that's secret classified and then they go and then they're an actor in a show where they play a CIA spy and that's completely allowed and not only is it once like it's a major role and it's several episodes and then it gets renewed for seasons. I think that that was a concern by many of the public but also within the cast of Skinwalker Ranch.
And they had done a behind the scenes interview which I saw on their it's like a paywall area that they have for the for the show and they were all talking after this broke that Dr. Taylor was
kind of doubling, if you want to call it that. I mean, he was head of the UAP Task Force working on highly classified information within the government, but at the same time, working with them on the ranch, investigating UFOs and other paranormal events. How could you not tell the people that you're working with on this TV show, hey, by the way, I'm working for the government too, which some of you may think is involved in this massive cover-up
I'm with them right now. I'm working for them too, but I'm not going to tell you. It's a really bizarre situation and on top of that, I question how do you not know? Like how is that possible that somebody who's doing the classified work for the government, doing the consulting work for the UAP Task Force, which was official, so you're doing all that official work but then doing
This tv show on the side there's a lot of questions there how much information was doctor taylor taking from that show and giving it to the government potentially without their knowledge i'm not trying to create any conspiracies there but those are those are viable questions to ask.
when you're doing such double work. And I think that those have not been answered. So going back to that FOIA request that reveals some of these emails, you start to piece together some of those answers. Not all, but some of them where you can kind of see Stratton was getting funding to get Dr. Travis Taylor to fly to Washington. So you start putting things together in a big timeline.
Which is what I've done and it's a massive, massive undertaking in itself. But every time these documents come in, like the Dr. Travis Taylor documents and so on, you can take dates or at least some idea of a date and put it on that timeline and say, Dr. Travis was
You just put all these pieces of the puzzle together.
It seems likely that I'll be able to speak to Travis for the podcast so I can ask him any questions that you have and any questions in the audience if you have, you can comment below.
Apparently, Travis has a PhD in optical engineering. So it would be great to speak to him about some of the physics. A question I have is when people say that UFOs break the laws of physics, like how do you know that they break the laws? Because do you have enough data to even state that? But anyway, I'm looking forward to that. And I appreciate that you've spent now three hours, maybe even total three and a half hours with me and far more like
Over text, just working out this project. Thank you, man. Thank you for spending so much time with me. Of course. I hope it was okay. Oh, it's wonderful. It was an honor to be here, man. You ask excellent questions. I've looked forward to the interview since we first talked about it, however many months ago. And yeah, I'm glad we were able to do it. And hopefully the answers made a little bit of sense. I hope that it lived up to the hype.
Of course. Look, it's always fun to be interviewed by someone who asks intelligent, great questions. And you can tell by your interviews, that's who you are. That's a channel you've built. I have a lot of respect for that. So kudos to you and wish you all the best. And I hope my side lived up to being asked to be on the show. So thank you for that. Thank you, man.
All right, this podcast has been so, so long in the making because I wanted to release this tool with it. And Daniel Vanzant is the person I keep bringing up. His name is across the screen right now and he has Cephalopod AI solutions. I just want to plug them once more because he's not only a machine learning expert, he develops from the idea stage, the product along with you to its final form.
He's also an automation specialist and with large companies, he focuses on ROI. So if you're watching this, go to the website, you can check out his work. You've seen the interview. You can check out his website. I recommend him wholeheartedly. Daniel Van Zandt, Cephalopod AI Solutions. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate how much you have advised me when it comes to machine learning and building this product. The black toe vault dot com. That's a place that you can go with natural language, meaning just the way that you would speak to another person and ask queries to a percentage of John's FOIA requests.
The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked on that like button, now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people. You should also know that there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes, disagree respectfully about theories and build as a community our own toes. Links to both are in the description.
Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting theoriesofeverything.org. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on Toe full-time.
You get early access to ad-free audio episodes there as well. Every dollar helps far more than you may think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you.
▶ View Full JSON Data (Word-Level Timestamps)
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"text": " The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze."
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"text": " Where senior editors argue through the news with world leaders and policy makers in twice weekly long format shows. Basically an extremely high quality podcast. Whether it's scientific innovation or shifting global politics, The Economist provides comprehensive coverage beyond headlines. As a toe listener, you get a special discount. Head over to economist.com slash TOE to subscribe. That's economist.com slash TOE for your discount."
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"text": " There's always a smoke screen or something that makes you look the opposite direction. And that is the absolute best way to summarize government secrecy and cover-up. And it's something that has gone on well over a half a century, not only with UAP and UFOs, but pretty much with any secret that they don't want you to give."
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"text": " This UAP topic is an intriguing one, to say the least. Views on them range from something mundane and terrain like, hey, it's just atmospheric effects, it's just lens flares, to its mass psychosis, to there's something metaphysical here, some consciousness-related connection to other beings, to its government secrecies and"
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"text": " We're going to explore each of these in today's episode and in particular that last point with John Greenwald Jr. Now John's a seasoned researcher in this phenomenon has developed this reputation for focusing primarily on the hard facts. That is, what can he get his hands on?"
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"text": " Welcome to Theories of Everything with myself, Kurt Jaimungal. My background is in mathematical physics and so this podcast, Theories of Everything, is dedicated to exploring toes, predominantly from a theoretical physics perspective. But I'm also open to the more philosophical toes, as well as the larger questions that seem to"
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"text": " As usual, there are timestamps, so feel free to skip around to your favorite part. The point is to just get wet and soak in the topics, especially the more mathematical ones. And also note that around the 30 minute mark or so, there will be a message from sponsors, which allow this podcast to have as much attention placed into it as it does. Along with those who are kind enough to contribute and support on Patreon, you allow this to be viewed and listened to at zero cost. Thank you, thank you so much. And now on to the introduction."
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"text": " Today we have a guest who spent almost his entire life journeying through the labyrinthian annals of government records, shedding light on the clandestine corners of our world. His efforts have created a vast reservoir of declassified documents. I'm gladdened to introduce esteemed creator of TheBlackVault.com, Mr. John Greenwald."
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"text": " But there is a small percentage that the military will even admit to where they say we just we can't put a definitive explanation on this and that's what's intrigued me for more than 26 years now and why I run the blackball.com and and why UFOs has always been one of my favorite topics because after 26 plus years"
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"text": " I think would want this all to go away. And I could bore you to death with hours of trying to work through the Freedom of Information Act and try and get information from the government that the military just doesn't want us to have. And we can see that secrecy."
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"text": " Since his teenage years, Johns had an unwavering curiosity about government operations and their many veiled undertakings, leading him to pioneer a wonderful platform, the Black Vault, a testament to his commitment to unearthing data on this topic meticulously gathered and processed."
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"text": " What's interesting is when you talk about the explanation skeptics debunkers if you want to call them that come out and say well it could be classified technology or drones or stuff like that. What's interesting about this is they investigated 144 cases and they could not put 143 of them in any category that they came up with. They were only able to explain one which was a balloon."
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"text": " The other explanations they said were potentially classified systems from our own military or a foreign adversary, but they weren't able to identify any of the cases they investigated into those categories. John's Freedom of Information Act requests have unearthed a plethora of previously classified information, illuminating the topics of UAP sightings and covert intelligence operations. Whether you're a lifelong avid UFO enthusiast"
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"text": " A budding historian or just someone with an insatiable appetite for questions that seem to lead to more questions, welcome to the captivating world of John Greenwald Jr. Enjoy."
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"text": " Every scientific man in order to preserve his reputation has to say he dislikes metaphysics. What he means is he dislikes having his metaphysics criticized. All right, John, welcome. Welcome to the Toe podcast. It's been a long time coming. I appreciate you coming on. Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you, man. So how did you get started in this field? And what is this field? How do you characterize it?"
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"text": " Sure. So I started when I was 15 years old, utilizing the Freedom of Information Act. I was just essentially curious about what the government had. Didn't know exactly what I would find. I could tell you back in 1995, when I started filing FOIAs in 96, the internet was a different beast. I mean, there was something a lot different about the internet then than what you see here in 2023."
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"text": " And UFOs was still a popular topic even back then, even prior to the web being a popular thing on the internet. Prior to that, there were more chat rooms, file sharing sites, and stuff like that. UFOs was always one of these bigger topics that was distributed online. And I was hooked into that. I loved it. I loved going to the chat rooms. I loved seeing what was there."
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"text": " But what was difficult was to try and figure out what was real, what was legitimate, and what was something you could trust. And being 15 years old, I had no idea. I mean, I'm a lot older now. I still have no idea, but you get a little bit more of an understanding of what's going on. But again, back then, I didn't know what to believe. But I read about this government document."
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"text": " four pages long, said to be from the Defense Intelligence Agency. And I thought, you know what, after I read it, there's no way that this thing is real. And this website, if I remember correctly, was called the Computer UFO Network. And they were distributing some of these files way back in the day. And they said, if you don't believe it's legitimacy, you can file a Freedom of Information Act yourself or request yourself. And I was like, what? What's that? I have no idea. But it wouldn't cost me anything more than a postage stamp."
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"text": " I did it. Got the four page document. It was real. It was a UFO incident known infamously as the 1976 Iran incident and past that I was hooked."
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"text": " and went back online and looked for any more websites, any more government documents, anything that I could find because even though I knew the government was lying even back then, there was some type of legitimacy to a government document versus seeing someone's story written in a blog or article. The government documents had a different feel to them."
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"text": " And there was no website with it, just a few documents scattered here and there. So I started the Black Vault when I was 15. I figured if I was looking for documents, other people would be too. So I was utilizing the Freedom of Information Act. I learned from that first request and just taught myself how to use it and was sending out 10, 20, 50 requests at a time and were getting these documents. And then I was getting documents that had never been released before."
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"text": " You said you have no idea. Is that still true? You have no idea."
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"text": " Well, I mean, I say it a little bit facetiously, but seriously as well. I don't have any idea what UFOs are at their root. I think that there's many answers. No idea who to trust, that's true. I mean, you look at UFO history going well beyond my time in it of 26 years, it's hard to know who to trust. In relation to the Freedom of Information Act, I'm still learning after 26 years."
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"text": " So my I have no idea still statement applies to all of that because because it's true. I mean I I hope I never get to a day where I feel that I've Figured it all out meaning understand it. I want to continue to learn I want to I want to I want to learn along the way and get answers but I want to still have questions to back it up and and here we are 26 years later and again, I don't have"
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"text": " Final answers for you on what these phenomena are all I can comfortably say is that there is a massive cover-up I feel that no one really has the ultimate answer and on top of all that yeah, I aim to continue to learn for myself because Look anybody who tells you they figured it out is lying to you because I don't think that's possible at this point"
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"text": " When you say that you still don't know, do you have exclusions, for instance, that you know it's not so-and-so? You can't say what it is, but you can say it's likely not this and this and this."
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"text": " Are you talking specifically to the UFO phenomenon? Yeah. So I think when you talk about the phenomenon or I use plural phenomena, I say that because I think there's multiple facets to it. I don't think there's any exclusions because you have to drill down on a specific case, a specific experience, and you have to deal with it in a very minuscule manner to figure that particular one out. I think a lot of people approach this topic"
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"text": " Wanting an answer is it alien is it not well you can't do a blanket explanation and in the same respect I feel like you can't do a blanket dismissal either because I can't say that I've excluded classified aircraft from from"
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"text": " Being the root cause of this. Why do I say that? Well, because you can only exclude that in certain instances, not in all of them. So if somebody is in their backyard and they see something streak across the sky and they happen to live in Las Vegas, well, that could absolutely be attributed to their experience."
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"text": " When we're talking about military pilots, military experiences, that's a little bit different. Maybe something is classified flying in their airspace and they're not aware of it. That's also a possibility or it's something else. So I think that the blanket answers, blanket dismissals, incredibly hard to do with this because"
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"text": " This topic deserves a microscope. I mean, truly you have to zero in on every single facet of it and figure that part out and then go on to the next one, whether that be cases, whether that be unanswered questions, whether that be the physics behind it, whether that be consciousness questions. I'm sure that plays a role in a lot of this. You've got a wide range of things to zero in on."
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"text": " When people say that this is related to consciousness regarding the phenomenon, what is it that they mean?"
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"text": " So I approach this topic on I want to be able to research something, whether it be documents, photographs, videos, or material. I'm a three-dimensional physical, I need to see it, touch it, feel it if I can type of person, but others find a much more spiritual aspect"
},
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"end_time": 820.998,
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"start_time": 801.288,
"text": " To this topic and these phenomena they feel that it's not necessarily about the nuts bolts proof science or whatever it's more about the experience the love the light the the they're here to save us. Again that's not my wheelhouse that's not how i approach it but i think a lot of people do."
},
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"text": " approach it in more of that metaphysical way, because that's their experience, that's their mindset, that's where they are on their journey to figure it all out. And that's fine, but you have to essentially rely a little bit less on science, or a lot a bit less on science, and more so on faith. And again, that's not why that's my approach, but for some it is, and for them it works for them."
},
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"end_time": 879.701,
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"text": " It's just a different approach, I think, to a phenomena that's still a mystery to us all. And if it works for them, I support that. It's just not my angle. Yeah, so they mean something spiritual? Because when people say it's related to consciousness, my question is, well, what's not related to consciousness? If you take your experience as primary, everything is related to consciousness, including a pen, including a table. Yeah, and the way I took your question was more of the"
},
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"end_time": 891.749,
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"text": " spiritual aspect of this those that are finding answers within their within themselves versus actual science or again those those nuts and bolts that I'm talking about"
},
{
"end_time": 917.278,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 892.329,
"text": " With that, I think that there's a very dangerous part of this conversation as well. And you see this a lot, I would say more in the last five years, but even prior, you know, you talk about the Heaven's Gate cult and so on and so forth, that they attribute UFOs, extraterrestrials, alien life to spiritual followings and then sometimes very dangerous"
},
{
"end_time": 944.087,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 917.278,
"text": " followings. Heaven's Gate obviously was a mass suicide thinking that a UFO was behind a comet. You have others that are much more cultish in nature talking about aliens and so on and so forth. The Raelian movement is one that comes to mind that's been around for quite some time. But then you again have in the last five years or so a much I would say"
},
{
"end_time": 964.445,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 945.896,
"text": " Much more dangerous part of this, not the majority, but there's a part of it where people just believe and they sacrifice. I call it the I want to believe syndrome. They sacrifice all logic, common sense, our basic form of investigation, asking questions. They sacrifice all of that."
},
{
"end_time": 993.797,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 964.906,
"text": " for the want to believe. And they want to believe so much that they will make sure that you do not harm that, that you do not get in the way of that. And if you do, there's hell to pay. They want to believe in what? They want to believe that there's a higher, more intelligent life form out there that is wanting to talk to humanity, that they're here to take us to another level of consciousness, another"
},
{
"end_time": 1025.435,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 995.503,
"text": " place in the cosmos that we're going to join some kind of cosmic brotherhood. I'm not saying that's true for everybody, but that's out there. Those beliefs are out there. And then you have the debate of good aliens versus bad aliens. Are they here to save us from destroying the planet and destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and so on? Or are they here to kill us all? That debate is rampant out there. That brings up a whole new aspect to this conversation, which I'm fascinated by."
},
{
"end_time": 1042.227,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1025.828,
"text": " But to sum it up, why would they care? Because if they are there and we are here, and they can get here, the likelihood of us being the only two life forms in the cosmos is nil. So why would they care? To me, I attribute it to the Antill analogy."
},
{
"end_time": 1062.381,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1042.227,
"text": " We will save you."
},
{
"end_time": 1088.814,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1062.381,
"text": " I'm sorry, the intelligence gap between us and an ant is likely closer than us and a civilization that started two million years ago. I believe that because I think that their intelligence will be so far surpassed our own. Why would they want to come here and number one, even talk to us? But number two, save us. Does it matter? You know, the only reason they would is if we are the only two"
},
{
"end_time": 1100.708,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1088.814,
"text": " In the cosmos you know if there's just a handful of civilizations in this vast universe to me that's not even likely but you know that's the only reason they would and if that is the case."
},
{
"end_time": 1130.23,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1101.203,
"text": " How would we ever find each other, right? So there's a lot of questions that I think we have to ponder here. It's not about was that UFO an alien spaceship going across the Pacific Ocean, but rather we have to really drill deep into a lot of these pressing questions that you have to tackle if you want to believe in extraterrestrials are here. See, for the anthill analogy, I don't think people think about it carefully enough, because if the ants were able to communicate to us, there would be"
},
{
"end_time": 1151.971,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1130.794,
"text": " Teams of scientists, there will be new stories about, look, we can now communicate with ants. Further, virtually every single species on the planet has a professor whose sole job it is to study it. It's difficult to find a life form that we're not interested in. And then third, we are concerned with species preservation."
},
{
"end_time": 1173.746,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1152.892,
"text": " So if the ants were going to war with gorillas and one of them were going to be wiped out somehow, we would care about that. Like we already care about that. And there are some people who care about extinction. So there's both sides. So I don't see this dispassionate assessment because it's an anthill and we're so much more advanced as holding up to indicate that we don't"
},
{
"end_time": 1194.906,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1174.445,
"text": " Want to intervene or communicate back because if we could, that would be firstly, we're teaching gorillas to try and communicate to them saying with parrots and we're super excited when they can say a syllable or string together a verb and an adjective and it's like a revolutionary Chomsky gets involved. Yeah. You, you bring up a great, you bring up a great rebuttal."
},
{
"end_time": 1222.995,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1195.282,
"text": " The only reason I would push back is not every human being studies. You're talking about a very small percentage of humans that make that study and that care. I'm one of those that care, right? So I'm an animal geek. I love that. I love that kind of stuff. But sadly, humanity doesn't. So the reason I bring up the analogy is talking about life forms as a whole here on Earth, humanity as a whole. What's the percentage that cares?"
},
{
"end_time": 1252.619,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1222.995,
"text": " broaden that to a wider scope in the universe to find a full civilization that would again want to come here and speak to us and save us. That to me is more of the point that it would be a much smaller if a percentage point at all. But on top of all that, using what rebuttal you just brought up, which was great, we want to save that life form"
},
{
"end_time": 1262.398,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1252.978,
"text": " Because all we know is one planet and that's it, right? So life is precious to us and I agree with that, right? Like I believe life is precious."
},
{
"end_time": 1284.036,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1262.961,
"text": " But if then the universe and cosmos is teeming with life, would another advanced civilization have that same appreciation and that same care to go, okay, people of Earth or creatures of Earth, we don't want you to be extinct. We want to coddle you. I want to believe that that's true."
},
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"end_time": 1306.869,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1284.036,
"text": " Because I'm the type that in my backyard I will save a hummingbird in my pool, which there's pictures We do that all the time me and my kids will save hummingbirds will say so we do that, right? But it's because we have that appreciation for life would a civilization millions of years ahead of us in a cosmos teeming with life care"
},
{
"end_time": 1325.52,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1307.466,
"text": " And that's I think the bigger question here is that we want to think they would because of humanity and where we are in the infant stages that we are. But the reality is it could be a machine that we run into when we talk about an extraterrestrial."
},
{
"end_time": 1349.206,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1325.845,
"text": " And that brings up this whole other debate wherein we are operating off the assumption that we are going to run into a biological creature of some kind. But that unanswered question is, when that happens, if it hasn't already, will it be biological at all? And then that brings up a whole other slew of questions."
},
{
"end_time": 1368.507,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1350.555,
"text": " I get your point absolutely, but for me I remove myself as much as I can from humanity and try and look at it as a bigger picture and that's where I feel the the Antill analogy then comes into play. Yeah, I see that. I'll say some thoughts that occurred to me. Number one is that if there"
},
{
"end_time": 1395.35,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1369.121,
"text": " sufficiently advanced and they would have something like auto GPT. So right now we have AIs and they can run automatically without our intervention. So it could be that even though the average person doesn't care about a particular animal, like you mentioned, there's a subset of people who care about a particular animal. Even though that's the case, it could just be it runs automatically. So it doesn't matter that all of us as a whole aren't, it could be that you're sending out probes automatically. Secondly,"
},
{
"end_time": 1414.428,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1395.674,
"text": " This is something I think about. We tend to think that what's valuable is what's rare, like diamonds and gold. But it may be the case that we have that backward and that that's based on something like materialism and that what may be the most valuable is what's the most abundant. And that is to say like our consciousness or meaning or significance."
},
{
"end_time": 1434.206,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1416.408,
"text": " Razor blades are like diving boards. The longer the board, the more the wobble, the more the wobble, the more nicks, cuts, scrapes. A bad shave isn't a blade problem, it's an extension problem. Henson is a family-owned aerospace parts manufacturer that's made parts for the International Space Station and the Mars Rover."
},
{
"end_time": 1462.688,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1434.206,
"text": " Now they're bringing that precision engineering to your shaving experience. By using aerospace-grade CNC machines, Henson makes razors that extend less than the thickness of a human hair. The razor also has built-in channels that evacuates hair and cream, which make clogging virtually impossible. Henson Shaving wants to produce the best razors, not the best razor business, so that means no plastics, no subscriptions, no proprietary blades, and no planned obsolescence."
},
{
"end_time": 1479.053,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1462.688,
"text": " It's also extremely affordable. The Henson razor works with the standard dual edge blades that give you that old school shave with the benefits of this new school tech. It's time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that'll last you a lifetime. Visit hensonshaving.com slash everything."
},
{
"end_time": 1505.486,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1479.053,
"text": " It's a difficult concept to parse out because we tend to make an equivalence between what's valuable and what's rare and what's uncommon."
},
{
"end_time": 1529.804,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1505.811,
"text": " I don't see it as being completely obvious that what's precious is what's most rare. It may be the opposite. What's precious is what's most common. Yeah, and you bring up an interesting, I'm not sure if this will connect to your thought at all, but you bring up an interesting point about the gold and the precious metals that are precious to us and therefore valuable."
},
{
"end_time": 1536.288,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1530.606,
"text": " If we were able to go out those precious metals to us humans"
},
{
"end_time": 1561.527,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1536.715,
"text": " is completely abundant like there's that one I forget exactly the value of the the comet that they said is is worth like quintillions of dollars and that you know the idea is that if you go out and actually can rope it and bring it in and you can start mining it and and so on and so forth it brings up I guess an interesting concept that what and which kind of plays into my point earlier is that what is essentially rare to us"
},
{
"end_time": 1582.108,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1562.056,
"text": " that we value it more. Gold is much more valuable than dirt because it's much more precious to us and so on and so forth. And therefore we coddle that and we hold on to it. It's got value. It grows in value. But using gold as the example in the cosmos,"
},
{
"end_time": 1610.162,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1582.534,
"text": " that's one of those precious metals that if you rope one of those comets you completely crash the gold market here because you are just overflowing with it and it's not precious anymore it's just a metal it's just dirt you know it's not worth anything that i think plays into what i was saying earlier where here on earth humanity values what it does because we're small and that's all we know but once that broadens to literally a cosmic scale"
},
{
"end_time": 1637.312,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1610.162,
"text": " those values change, both monetary values, but also what's here and what's here in our mind and our heart. So it's a mind blowing topic because you can go so many different ways. And like you said, does the abundance create value? I'm not sure. Maybe, maybe with a higher intelligence that would come into play. But sadly for humanity, as you and I chat right now,"
},
{
"end_time": 1663.183,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1637.637,
"text": " That's not the case. And that's how we have to, at this point, think about how it might be out there. Just because we don't know where we're going to be in a thousand years. How much do you think the government knows? And when I say the government, that may be a misnomer because we say the as if it's unified. One all-powerful, all-knowing entity. Yeah. And even ourselves, we're disparate. We have different goals, like you mentioned."
},
{
"end_time": 1687.79,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1663.609,
"text": " Despite that, despite those caveats, interpret that as you wish. How much does the government know? Well, I get myself in a lot of trouble here because I said this first years and years ago, and I couldn't believe the hate mail that I got. I said it's quite possible the government has no clue. That they're just as clueless as you and I, and forgive me, I don't mean you're clueless, but humanity itself on unraveling this"
},
{
"end_time": 1695.572,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1688.063,
"text": " this whole phenomenon right these phenomena what is it what's the root of it it's possible that the government doesn't know either"
},
{
"end_time": 1718.609,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 1696.101,
"text": " And I couldn't believe the hate mail that I got from that because a lot of people think that the government is this all-powerful, all-knowing entity that knows all. And they're bad people and they're covering it all up, which I believe there is a cover up, but they're covering it all up and they know the secrets and they're stashed away in some warehouse somewhere, but they're not going to tell you about it."
},
{
"end_time": 1744.514,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 1718.985,
"text": " That's the easy way to think about it. The harder way is to think that the government doesn't know either. That they just, after all these decades of researching it, cannot essentially figure out really what the root is or at least the final answer. Maybe they have clues, maybe they have pieces of evidence, maybe they have material. And let me say that and let me take that back."
},
{
"end_time": 1760.128,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 1744.514,
"text": " It's proven they have material there are declassified documents that that prove that that are connected to ufos post project blue book era so that's all provable that's not conspiracy talk material of some kind so they have physical objects."
},
{
"end_time": 1788.712,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 1760.589,
"text": " What does that prove to them? That's what we don't know. They could be studying it for a week, figure it out, and hide and cover up the answer. Or they could be looking at it for decades going, yeah, we think that this is manufactured by extraterrestrials, but we're not really sure because we have zero clue on how to figure that out. We'd like to think that we could with our 21st century technology and most brilliant minds that have security clearances, but there's a possibility that we just kind of can't."
},
{
"end_time": 1818.831,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 1789.002,
"text": " So going back to your question, it's a possibility they don't know. But on top of that, if they did, would they ever tell us? So let's operate off the assumption that they really do know and they've found ultimate connections to extraterrestrials. It's undeniable. Maybe they don't know how the using the nuts and bolts thing. Again, they don't know the nuts and bolts behind it, but they know that it's manufactured by an extraterrestrial entity. That's an assumption, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 1844.48,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 1819.36,
"text": " If that's true, then they wouldn't tell us. I truly believe that. I think that they would keep that under wraps. You have too much working against society that would allow a world government to come clean. So what do they know? It's kind of a crapshoot on what they know, but either way, it's not good. If there's a cover-up, how is it that you determine which documents that you receive from FOIA requests are credible and which ones are not?"
},
{
"end_time": 1871.391,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 1845.93,
"text": " Well, that's a great question because do I believe the government fabricates the material that comes to me? And I would hate to think that they would. I mean, the easy out for them is to essentially just either redact it or deny it. So to create these disinformation campaigns, I'm not big on those types of stories. Even though I doubt some individuals that have come out,"
},
{
"end_time": 1895.862,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 1871.391,
"text": " and had these stories and so on and so forth and some of the UFO community will call it will say ah he's on a disinformation campaign you can't trust him you know you don't do that I've long outspoken against that I just don't think the government will create more work than they have to they don't want to do the work that they're supposed to do so creating this massive disinformation campaign"
},
{
"end_time": 1914.019,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 1895.862,
"text": " to essentially fabricate documents and throw off FOIA researchers, I've never seen any indicator that that's going on. Rather, I think they're just going to black it out, redact it, or fully deny you getting access to it, and that's their legal"
},
{
"end_time": 1933.422,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 1914.019,
"text": " Alright, that's quite a slew of information and previously in the Daniel Schmottenberger episode, people appreciated the summaries and so let's just go over what's been covered so far. This way we can breathe and gain our bearings."
},
{
"end_time": 1952.961,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 1933.422,
"text": " John talks about how this government's cover-up has been going on for half a century, and it's not just relegated to UAPs. He also talks about why it's difficult to discern what's real from what's not when it comes to UFOs, and government documents have a different feel to them, at least according to John, where they feel more legitimate compared to stories written in blogs and articles."
},
{
"end_time": 1975.026,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 1952.961,
"text": " Again, this is according to John. Now, the Black Vault is something John started when he was 15, and he's been doing this for over 20 years. We talked about the spiritual versus the scientific approach, and the spiritual one seems to be more experiential, and the science one seems to involve more physical evidence and documents, photographs, videos. There's the dangerous side to beliefs, so John outlined the Heaven's Gate cult, though there's also the dangers of just not caring."
},
{
"end_time": 2002.21,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 1975.026,
"text": " John also talks about that if aliens do exist perhaps they wouldn't be concerned about us and I have this rebuttal to the anthill analogy because to me it's not a great comparison given that we give considerable scrutiny to almost every single species including ongoing attempted communication. We talk about what is the value in the universe? Is it something that's rare or is it that in fact what's abundant? And do extraterrestrials advance civilizations if we want to put quotations around advanced? Do they have the same value for life as we do?"
},
{
"end_time": 2030.555,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2002.21,
"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network, is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store"
},
{
"end_time": 2063.029,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2034.991,
"text": " Science does not know its debt to imagination."
},
{
"end_time": 2078.456,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2065.725,
"text": " There's also, I think, an area of the government that is not touchable. I mean, that's kind of a given to many people, but that I think is definitely the harsh reality for someone like me to go up against."
},
{
"end_time": 2101.852,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2078.746,
"text": " What does that mean that there's an area that's not touchable? That I think that there's going to be a lot of files that if you request information that they will say there's nothing there when in reality there is. So not touchable via FOIA and not just because of the exemptions but I believe you reach a level of classification. Let's take the Edward Snowden leaks for example."
},
{
"end_time": 2128.695,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2101.852,
"text": " I believe there were pushes through FOIA to get some of those surveillance documents out and obviously the government was denying those programs existed. So in essence, that's not touchable. We now know that it existed, but that's a provable example that through legal means and the government talking about it, they're saying, no, we're not doing this. Snowden then releases a bunch of surveillance"
},
{
"end_time": 2147.21,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2128.933,
"text": " Program records that are classified top secret and so on and then all of a sudden we find out well all of that stuff is real the stuff that made it into Hollywood movies like echelon and stuff like that with the NSA is is actually going on so so again that's where I think is a provable example that"
},
{
"end_time": 2173.097,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2147.21,
"text": " Even though I let's say prior to Edward Edward Snow never leaking material were to go after that the NSA would likely not say No, we have nothing they would likely say We can neither confirm nor deny which is called a Glomar response or they would lie about it you know, I think that that is that provable way to prove there's Something we can't touch"
},
{
"end_time": 2196.084,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2173.439,
"text": " Or they would lie about it. How? Like not through the FOIA request. They wouldn't manufacture something for a FOIA request. That's a lie. They would just say something like, what do you mean? No, I think that they, I think that they would just say, we have nothing pertaining to the request. If I understood your question correctly. I mean, it's as easy as that. I think they would lie and say, yeah, we know that we have a room full of stuff, but we can't give it to them. So let's just say no."
},
{
"end_time": 2224.872,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2196.476,
"text": " And that is by the way also not conspiracy talk. I have a umpteen examples of that through the past 26 years where the government has said no and then years later figure out that actually documents were there and then I would file again get the documents out. Prime example when it comes to UFOs Wright-Patterson Air Force Base had over a thousand pages that they claimed they searched found nothing. Years later I read an article that Wright-Patterson Air Force Base released"
},
{
"end_time": 2244.616,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2224.872,
"text": " over a thousand pages of UFO material and I wrote the guy I said well wait a minute and this was a lesson I learned very young because you never want to think that the government's lying I mean I'm a lot older now so I know better but when you're 15 and you're getting into it you think if they say no they mean no right I mean you just don't like automatically go aha it's a conspiracy"
},
{
"end_time": 2266.937,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2244.616,
"text": " When you're that young, you're just dumb, in my case. So you just want to believe it. And when he wrote back and said, oh yeah, they were here, I'm paraphrasing, but essentially, if you want them, here's a bill, like he didn't really even give an explanation. Sorry, he's referring to? Yeah, the Freedom of Information Act officer."
},
{
"end_time": 2286.22,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2267.637,
"text": " So, his last name was Hulesman. He was a T Sergeant. That's public record, so I'm not ousting anybody. He's long not worked for Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, but the letter's online and so on and so forth. And he was actually the one that released it, so it was an odd connection that he was the one that signed the letter a couple years prior to the release."
},
{
"end_time": 2313.456,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2286.22,
"text": " And it was the same person that released the records years later that I read about in a magazine. So was that a lie? Well, okay, maybe it was a mistake, but that's just not one instance. There are tons of them. I have numerous Freedom of Information Act appeals where through the Freedom of Information Act, they will say, sorry, Kurt, we have nothing. That's called a no records response. So they say we're issuing a new no records response."
},
{
"end_time": 2342.108,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2313.456,
"text": " So, Kurt appeals because he thinks that he knows something is there. He's got proof. He appeals. It goes to a higher what they call appellate authority. That appellate authority reviews it and goes, hey, wait a minute. You guys didn't do X, Y, or Z and it actually was there. So, all mistakes in my opinion? No. I believe that there are sadly malicious instances where they say no even though they know the answer is yes. Is that legal?"
},
{
"end_time": 2367.278,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2347.381,
"text": " I'm trying to find the right way to say it. Is it legal? Well, by law, they have to say that they searched. They have to actually have searched and if the documents do not meet their nine FOIA exemptions, release the material. When they say no and there's really a yes,"
},
{
"end_time": 2391.442,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2367.722,
"text": " Can we call it illegal? I don't know because I can't sue on that. What if it's just a mistake? And I think mistakes are made. There's some amazing FOIA officers out there. So I don't want to immediately jump and say they're doing something illegal. You know, that's wrong. I don't think that that's necessarily the right approach. But rather, I think that there is a malicious intent here and it goes against the law."
},
{
"end_time": 2416.34,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2391.442,
"text": " What I call it illegal, that would be hard to prove. For me, even though I'm not an attorney, I would say anything illegal, you sue in a court of law and win because they did something illegal. You can sue under the Freedom of Information Act, but to prove that they were lying is tough because they have the human error to fall back on and sadly, that's a tough one to argue."
},
{
"end_time": 2430.828,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2417.073,
"text": " When you were saying that you don't buy the disinformation chronicle about that they send them out through the FOIA requests, you're not saying that there is no such thing as disinformation from the government, you're saying that the disinformation doesn't occur through what you receive from a FOIA request?"
},
{
"end_time": 2459.428,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2431.476,
"text": " Yeah, I'd hate to just say that it doesn't exist through FOIA because I know that my biggest haters out there will say, well, John just trust the FOIA and that's not necessarily true. What I'm more saying with that is that I don't think that they're going to go to the lengths of fabricating documents through a FOIA requester because the majority of FOIA requesters don't publish everything anyway."
},
{
"end_time": 2479.906,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2459.428,
"text": " So that disinformation campaign would have to be geared towards someone like me who does publish everything. And then on top of that, you have to hope that they're actually going to publish it, you know, because I get material sometimes that really isn't all that interesting. So it to me, there's too much work there for a government that doesn't like to work anyway."
},
{
"end_time": 2506.988,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2480.265,
"text": " Where I think the disinformation does come in, and I do believe that this is going on, is more of the press statements, the public hearings. Under oath, I don't think means much when it comes to national security. I don't want to sound conspiratorial there, but yeah, I believe that certain people, including Congress, is likely misled about certain programs, UAP included."
},
{
"end_time": 2536.22,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2507.551,
"text": " That's also not conspiracy talk because when you go back in the decades there are multiple examples of them being misled or stonewalled. I mean just in the last couple of years we hear senators scream into the high heavens about being stonewalled for information. Rand Paul is a prime example to prove that statement where he requests information from the agencies they stonewall him and even senators are now using the Freedom of Information Act. Rand Paul had referenced that"
},
{
"end_time": 2560.316,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2536.22,
"text": " with COVID material with the HHS. So I think that that is for me the disinformation that I believe in because I think it's provable and it's there. A full operation to manufacture documents and evidence and send that out. I don't think they have to. I think that they can do enough damage with"
},
{
"end_time": 2588.37,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2560.794,
"text": " Press statements, spokespeople, stuff like that. That's the much bigger challenge to figure out what's real and what's not. I see. You mentioned that some of the critics say so and so. What else do the critics say for yourself? Something I've observed is that given enough time, almost anyone in this field, this quote unquote field, I don't know what to call it, ufology, this field, they become irascible. I don't know why, but maybe you can speak to that. Like what makes people"
},
{
"end_time": 2615.299,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 2588.865,
"text": " become so hostile or sensitive after a certain period of time investigating this topic? In my opinion, it's that I want to believe syndrome. And I think that the hostility comes from the want to believe. And if you go against that, they'll come after you. And your question was how specifically has it affected me?"
},
{
"end_time": 2634.514,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 2615.691,
"text": " Well, post 2017, when December, October, to be real specific, but when Luis Elizondo had come out and talked about this UFO aerial threat program, he didn't even say ATIP in October of 2017, but he talked about these aerial threats."
},
{
"end_time": 2660.35,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 2634.514,
"text": " I was all over that. I was fascinated by it because that had played into at the time a little over 20 years worth of research that I knew the government was up to something. I knew that they were researching it. I could prove the lie at that point even prior to Luis Elizondo and that lie was in 1969 they stopped researching and caring about UFOs."
},
{
"end_time": 2684.565,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 2660.35,
"text": " Full stop. That's been their stance for decades prior to Luis Elizondo's story coming out. The documentation, that evidence from the United States Air Force, from the CIA, from the DIA and the NSA alone, amongst many others, but just those biggies completely disproved what they were trying to claim. So now fast forward to 2017."
},
{
"end_time": 2709.377,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 2685.606,
"text": " Elizondo comes out. I'm all over it. I'm like watching that. I'm like taking notes. I'm like, this is great. By the time that that conference had ended that press conference with no press by to the Stars Academy in October of 2017, I had FOIA requests sitting in the Pentagon email boxes, but sitting in the Pentagon requesting information based on the testimony that Luis Elizondo was giving to the public."
},
{
"end_time": 2726.34,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 2709.991,
"text": " I didn't have a reason to doubt Elizondo. There was no reason to. I was super excited. Fast forward to December. I was ironically speaking at a conference. It was a UFO themed conference and everybody was talking on this morning of December 17th and everybody"
},
{
"end_time": 2755.589,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 2726.34,
"text": " was speaking about this. I remember I think Stephen Bassett was there. I'm not sure if you've had Stephen on your show, but he's the activist, the lobbyist, I should say, in Washington DC. So a lot of people were at this conference, they were talking about this. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. And then it broke through New York Times, Politico, and it was a big deal. Wow, I thought it was great. Well, around that time, fast forward now to the end of December, I started getting FOIA responses from October."
},
{
"end_time": 2784.616,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 2755.828,
"text": " certain things didn't match up and so I started questioning things and then a lot of things didn't match up and then not only the Freedom of Information Act was getting responses but also the spokespeople which I'm a firm believer have disinformation sometimes attached were contradicting the story so I started writing about it then go to 2018 beginning of 2018 I was trying to get a hold of Luis Elizondo going hey what's going on here there's a lot of question marks here"
},
{
"end_time": 2812.875,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 2785.009,
"text": " And fast forward a little bit more, as I wrote more about it, you get lambasted. Why? Because that October and December 2017 event, right, where Luis Elizondo comes out, a tips a thing, UFO secret programs in the Pentagon, that's what people wanted to believe in. That's what they wanted. Here I come along after months of looking into it going, there's a lot of things that don't match up here."
},
{
"end_time": 2842.551,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 2813.319,
"text": " and they come after you guns blazing because you're going against what they want to believe. Don't interrupt that. Don't, don't, don't go against this. This is what we've been wanting for decades. Now it's here. Just shut up about it and they'll come after you. And I'm speaking- Who's they, sorry? They meaning those, I don't know if you want, I'm not going to name names, but rather those that want to believe. I'm just talking about the hostility in general."
},
{
"end_time": 2868.37,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 2843.387,
"text": " which kind of goes to your question, like the attacks. And it's not one or two people. There's a lot. I mean, Luis Elizondo has a large fan base. There's a lot of people that follow him. But with that, it comes that hostility. And that's what I'm speaking to, to your question. Like, why do people become hostile? And I'm just speaking from personal experience answering that, that it is the going against what people want to believe."
},
{
"end_time": 2894.77,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 2868.763,
"text": " and at that at that point and then even now in 2023 people want to believe in Luis Elizondo and that's fine he's he's done a lot of great things but he's also got a lot of questionable things as well and i think people don't want to look at the questionable things they want to just look at what he's what he's saying and that's it don't don't question it don't upset the the apple cart on that and"
},
{
"end_time": 2918.609,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 2895.179,
"text": " When you have the government going against someone like Luis Elizondo via their spokesperson, everybody creates a villain there. And this also is to your question, where is that hostility? Well, in this field, however you want to term it, there are villains and there are heroes. To some, I'm a villain."
},
{
"end_time": 2942.602,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 2919.155,
"text": " to others, I could be a hero because I'm getting these documents. And I think it all depends on that particular person. Luis Elizondo is largely a hero. So you have that, this Pentagon spokesperson, Susan Goff, public record, she's the one that has issued all of these statements. She's a villain to a lot of those that are involved in this conversation because she's going against what Luis Elizondo said."
},
{
"end_time": 2965.845,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 2942.602,
"text": " So that plays into the hostility that we see because it goes against what people want to believe. And that's not true for everybody. There's, again, a lot of amazing people out there. But when you look on social media, Twitter especially, you have a lot of hostility. There are some that gets incredibly dangerous. People getting banned off of Twitter for threats of violence against me"
},
{
"end_time": 2977.568,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 2965.845,
"text": " and others. That's true. I'm not exaggerating on that. So that's a dangerous... I laugh about it because I can do nothing else, right? I mean, it becomes a very dangerous thing."
},
{
"end_time": 3004.582,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 2978.439,
"text": " For those who are unacquainted, you mentioned that there was an official story and then there were contradictions to it. Can you explain what the official story was and then what the contradictions were that either came out or you uncovered? Sure. So the official story, if what you mean by what Luis Elizondo's story was as echoed by Politico in the New York Times in December of 2017, the nutshell was Luis Elizondo"
},
{
"end_time": 3028.507,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3004.582,
"text": " Directed a program called the advanced they published it at the time the advanced aviation Threat identification program it turned out that the name was more likely advanced aerospace Threat identification program or a tip again Elizondo was the head of it and the whole direction of the program was to investigate UFOs the reason I point out the name discrepancy is that"
},
{
"end_time": 3034.821,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3028.831,
"text": " At the time, I didn't realize it, but would later become the root of a lot of this debate."
},
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"index": 132,
"start_time": 3034.923,
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"end_time": 3077.21,
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"start_time": 3061.766,
"text": " They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms. There's also something called Shopify magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes."
},
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"text": " What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States."
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"text": " If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify.com slash theories."
},
{
"end_time": 3154.326,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3131.101,
"text": " The official, this being the government side of it, was that ATIP was not an official program. It was simply a nickname. The real program was something called OSAP, A-A-W-S-A-P. And on top of all of that, it didn't investigate UFOs at all. And on top of that, it was at the Defense Intelligence Agency, not at the office in the Pentagon where Luis Elizondo worked."
},
{
"end_time": 3174.497,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3154.787,
"text": " So all of a sudden you had these contradictions that started to, over the course of six months and a year after it came out, all started to kind of trickle out themselves of creating this controversy. The one that I really latched onto was the videos, the nature of the three videos that came out."
},
{
"end_time": 3192.534,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3174.923,
"text": " the story I'll call it the official story from Luis Elizondo and to the stars Academy, which was the private entity to where he worked said that those videos were officially declassified went through the review process of the Department of Defense."
},
{
"end_time": 3212.346,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3192.892,
"text": " And were released essentially to the public. And then Luis Elizondo took them to the Stars Academy. That was what we were all led to believe. New York Times published two of them. The third one came out in March of 2018. Well, that's what we thought. Pentagon says, nope, we never officially released any of those."
},
{
"end_time": 3235.759,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3213.251,
"text": " So I and I had gotten some of the original statements that were that were published out and so of course that naturally made me the bad guy but those are bold statements to make. There's a difference between disinformation and misleading and sometimes saying saying stuff like that because this is something that you get into a very provable territory. So I won't bore you to death with with"
},
{
"end_time": 3255.486,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3235.759,
"text": " Kind of the full of what I mean by that, but the short of it is when you misinform, you either have to make sure that you can back it up or that the evidence to disprove what you're saying never can see the light of day. So there's a big line. So when they were coming out saying, oh, no, we've never officially released these."
},
{
"end_time": 3280.691,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3255.486,
"text": " Well, I would think that there would be a long paper trail of that official declassification process that we were told that took place. That did not exist. In fact, when the documents came out, it showed that Luis Elizondo, when he filed the paperwork, didn't call them UFOs at all. He called them balloons and essentially drones, unidentified aerial systems. But on top of that, he had stated on the form"
},
{
"end_time": 3309.531,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3280.691,
"text": " And it's provable that Luis Elizondo wrote this, this isn't third-hand information, that he was only going to use them for internal government use only. That's a far cry from what we were being told through the media and through to the Stars Academy. So what happened there? Where is this wild contradiction coming from? Any of these little things standing alone are sometimes small. It's a little bit minuscule. But when you add them all together,"
},
{
"end_time": 3337.056,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3310.06,
"text": " All of a sudden, it kind of begs the question, what's going on? If you're able to talk about this program, it means that it's either declassified or unclassified in nature. You can't just go out and start talking about classified stuff. You just can't. Ask anybody with a clearance. So the fact that he was talking about it at all, naming the program name, or what we were told was the program name, unclassified or declassified, pick one, but he's not in cuffs. So it's got to be one or the other."
},
{
"end_time": 3352.534,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3337.056,
"text": " But as time went on, we realized that a lot of it really wasn't even true. And it wasn't because of the spokespeople, it was because of the documentation that started to surface. It took a couple of years for that OSAP material to come out from the DIA."
},
{
"end_time": 3368.933,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3352.654,
"text": " If this was a UFO research program, all 38 reports"
},
{
"end_time": 3393.404,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3370.009,
"text": " should have had something to do with UFOs. But instead, they were very much geared toward what OSAP was all about, published in 2008, and all of that is verifiable as well. So again, there's a lot of facets to this, but the bottom line is that the story that we were told was not ultimately the truth."
},
{
"end_time": 3417.039,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3393.916,
"text": " And for someone like me, it's frustrating because I know these phenomena are real. I've researched it for decades, and I'm not talking because Joe Blow told me a story in a parking lot somewhere. I'm talking about official documents that go back to the 1940s that lack explanation. There's a lot of them. Government wants you to think there's not, but there really is, and that's provable."
},
{
"end_time": 3443.763,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3417.807,
"text": " So when this came about and the contradictions were there, I have no skin in the game on making you believe what I want you to believe. Rather, I just kind of report what I find, you know? Like I source everything. I publish 100% of it, unless it's really not even worth the bandwidth. But that's a rare occasion. I publish everything, especially when I write articles. And those contradictions, most of them still exist."
},
{
"end_time": 3472.108,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3444.155,
"text": " and they still haven't been addressed. And rather than addressing them, this has kind of turned into a big kind of war when it comes to this conversation. And it's the war of, well, you are going to either believe the government or believe Luis Elizondo. Well, that's not how I look at it, because I think Luis Elizondo has brought out a lot of great stuff. In fact, I wrote a story that I broke about it. It was 2021."
},
{
"end_time": 3490.623,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3472.602,
"text": " And it was a big deal to me because I'm an investigator and essentially an archivist and I preserve as much history as I can. That's what the Black Vault is. It's approaching three and a half million pages now on various topics. I mean, there's a ton of stuff."
},
{
"end_time": 3511.92,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3491.118,
"text": " And I was going after Luis Elizondo's emails. The story I broke was that after working on this for literally a couple of years, I discovered that the Department of Defense had destroyed Luis Elizondo's email boxes and essentially all the attachments that went along with it, well ahead of what they call the records retention schedule."
},
{
"end_time": 3530.094,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3512.261,
"text": " That is not kosher at all. Whether or not you want to call it illegal, I'll leave that to someone else. But I was able to prove that they destroyed everything. So the proof that I was looking for to prove his story was largely destroyed by the Department of Defense."
},
{
"end_time": 3559.394,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 3530.623,
"text": " And so, again, my whole point with this part is there's a lot going on on both sides. The contradictions is not just, again, on Luis Elizondo's side, but rather the Pentagon as well. There's a lot of shenanigans going on, but that part I can prove. Why is the part that I don't know yet, even after five years of looking into it? And part of me thinks that that's the point, that this stuff gets dragged on so long"
},
{
"end_time": 3585.674,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 3559.838,
"text": " It becomes a point when it comes to the smaller stuff, like who cares anymore, right? Like who cares that he lied in 2017? Well, I do, but a lot of people will, that is the argument online, where people that are calling themselves activists and so on and so forth, they are fighting with me saying, well, who cares now? It's 2023. In 2017, they cared. 2018, they cared."
},
{
"end_time": 3607.995,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 3586.049,
"text": " But in 2023, now it's proven that those videos were not brought out the way that we were told. It's proven that people have not been telling the truth. That's proven. And now it doesn't matter. So let's just move on. And that's what's frustrating because to me, I want the whole truth. I don't want my truth. I don't want your truth. I want the truth. I want the whole truth."
},
{
"end_time": 3616.544,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 3608.387,
"text": " and that's what I fight for and what I aim for and along the way that hostility is just from people who don't like it."
},
{
"end_time": 3643.643,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 3617.79,
"text": " I'm not looking to start any drama, any more drama. I know there's already some issues with different people. Is Lou's contention that the government is suppressing him? There's plenty of turmoil, clearly. So what would you say in defense of Lou for people who are not aware of what's going on? What is Lou's response to this? And I don't want to put words into Lou's mouth. I don't like even asking this question, but in order to give the alternate perspective. Sure."
},
{
"end_time": 3659.957,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 3644.07,
"text": " Yeah, and I can easily address that without putting words in Mr. Elizondo's mouth. He filed a Department of Defense complaint alleging that certain individuals had essentially targeted him for coming out."
},
{
"end_time": 3681.169,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 3660.93,
"text": " Now that was filed and given to certain journalists. I tried to get a hold of it myself when I had found out about it for no other reason other than that could be used to verify the claims. Whether or not spokespeople want to do it, whether or not they would release the investigation results, that was irrelevant to me."
},
{
"end_time": 3708.166,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 3681.681,
"text": " The information that he put down on paper I knew would be helpful. He never wanted to give it to me. And there was a time that he and I were chatting and talking. So it wasn't like, oh, no, Greenwald's a bad guy. Now, sadly, he refuses to speak with me and has blocked me on social media, which is fine. I don't know why, to be honest. But the complaint itself has been published by the New York Post."
},
{
"end_time": 3731.817,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 3708.541,
"text": " They redacted names that were not publicly available. So now anybody can read it. Some of the names again are redacted, but anybody can read it. So to your question, I don't have to speak for him or we don't have to guess. He put it on paper that he essentially was being targeted. What I had discovered through the FOIA"
},
{
"end_time": 3741.886,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 3732.295,
"text": " After I knew that this had been submitted and I dug for a long time about a year and a half I guess but but quite a long time the case was dismissed"
},
{
"end_time": 3772.21,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 3742.346,
"text": " I was able through FOIA to get his interview transcript, which is mostly available, some redactions, of course, but mostly available. So you can actually read his transcript on top of his complaint, again, with the effort of not speaking for him. So you'll be able to read that as well. So that's what is kind of interesting about this is that people can say what they want. But when it comes to the government, you can start verifying what they say to a point."
},
{
"end_time": 3792.039,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 3772.722,
"text": " and that information will come out. What was kind of frustrating to see was that the general public was told about the complaint and the investigation by the DOD's Inspector General Office, but what the public wasn't told was that it was closed like in earlier last year."
},
{
"end_time": 3822.142,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 3792.346,
"text": " They didn't see any evidence to support it, so essentially they closed the case and dismissed it. I have the letter that was sent to Mr. Elizondo's attorney, again through FOIA, and I believe that was fully released. Maybe some small redactions, I don't remember off the top of my head. But regardless, you can see that the case was not proven and Mr. Elizondo had maintained a security clearance and they essentially closed the case."
},
{
"end_time": 3841.869,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 3822.483,
"text": " So all of that information is now available. But again, that frustration was why is the public only told part of the story? I mean, you know, it's not like it had closed a week or two prior, but quite a while ago, but the public still talks about this. In fact, Politico wrote about it. So where's where's the"
},
{
"end_time": 3872.483,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 3842.534,
"text": " Where's the attention to what happened? And I think that that's how legends and myths are born, where you have part of a story and that lives on for decades. You never get the resolution because people don't want you to hear that part, but rather that myth will live on in infamy in UFO land. And that's frustrating because people deserve the full story, all the pieces of the puzzle. And that's what I aim to do with these types of requests."
},
{
"end_time": 3897.517,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 3873.609,
"text": " So, John, what's the deal? There's a large uproar about is it ASAP? Is it a tip for me as an outsider? Remember, I know I'm a fool. I know extremely little. What difference doesn't make? An analogy would be Microsoft has Bing AI. Apparently it was called Sydney. I don't care if it was called Sydney or Bulbasaur. It doesn't make a difference to me. So why is there a huge hubbub over this?"
},
{
"end_time": 3914.65,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 3898.183,
"text": " When it comes to the name itself, the hubbub was for people like me looking for information. Why was the name so hard to lock down? Why was the media reporting different names? That should be something that's straightforward. Journalism 101, just fact checking what the program name was."
},
{
"end_time": 3939.616,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 3914.65,
"text": " So the writing was on the wall from day one that the reporting itself wasn't solid. But now again, fast forward as more information and documents came out because that in some cases took years. The OSAP stuff came out I think in 2022. So you're talking well over four and a half years of waiting for material. Once we heard OSAP, it was years before we actually got the documentation."
},
{
"end_time": 3948.114,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 3939.616,
"text": " But then also to your question of why it matters away from the name is the scope itself. We were told it was a UFO research program."
},
{
"end_time": 3974.309,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 3948.865,
"text": " Great. That's fantastic. I have proof going back to the US Air Force in the late 1990s that they were researching UFOs. So this was more evidence to it. That was my original thought. But as documentation came out, spokespeople were talking about it. They're like, no, this had nothing to do with UAP. And then they later said that they utilized information that touched on UAP, but it wasn't a UAP research program."
},
{
"end_time": 4002.056,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 3974.821,
"text": " So why does it matter? Because now we have research programs, we have Aero, we have an office in the DOD that aims to research UAP. But for me, and I'm only speaking for me here, but why it's important is why was it such a mess to begin with? What was the intention here? Was the intention to bring out a wild story that had fictionalized elements in hopes to get us to today? Okay."
},
{
"end_time": 4026.732,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4002.619,
"text": " But did the ends justify the means? I'm not really sure. I'm not a big believer again in that disinformation campaign, but others believe that that's what this was, to create a public hype that reached every corner of the globe, which it did. I mean, we can't argue that. Create that hype, then shoot it down."
},
{
"end_time": 4056.049,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4027.398,
"text": " both figuratively and literally. But look at the conversation since these balloons got shot down. This to me may come off as conspiratorial, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. You know, you had that Chinese spy balloon and we shot it down. Then in the course of like days, we started shooting stuff down, you know, all over the place. Then nothing, right? Nothing has essentially happened since then. But what did they do? They connected UAP and the conversation to these balloons."
},
{
"end_time": 4083.507,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4056.903,
"text": " that happened in the mainstream media that all of a sudden I'm seeing it on Twitter and I don't want to name names but they are bigger journalists who had reporting for periodicals you'd recognize and again I just don't want to be rude here on on journalists but you'll see a shift that they were I don't want to say pro-UAP but very much reporting legitimately on the UAP topic a year and a half ago two years ago and now they're making fun of it"
},
{
"end_time": 4108.166,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4084.172,
"text": " And the reason is because that message of, well, it's all balloons. It's all foreign spy tech. We screwed up. They got balloons over us. But that's what we're talking about with UAP. So move along here. And some of those journalists have bought it, hook, line and sinker. And so now their articles have changed. Their scope has changed. Even the masthead has changed their tone of reporting on UAP."
},
{
"end_time": 4131.34,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4109.087,
"text": " It's an interesting connection that the documents that got those three original UAP videos out, the official document, described them as balloons and drones. Why? All a coincidence? Maybe. I don't know. But for me, that's where I start questioning it going, that's too much of a coincidence to me because that was an alarm to me in 2018."
},
{
"end_time": 4155.964,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4131.954,
"text": " And those contradictions never went away. Now here we are in 2023, literally connecting balloons to UAP. I do not believe that that is the source of the true UAP discussion that we should be having. So let me stress that to you. I do not believe this is about balloons and drones fully. Uh-huh. Partially it is. Yes, absolutely. It's partially conversation, but not fully."
},
{
"end_time": 4176.664,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4156.254,
"text": " And I think at this point that shift is starting to happen. Recently there was a UAP hearing and Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who heads the UAP office, they were talking about drones, they were talking about balloons, spy platforms, and even though he said, I am paraphrasing, but essentially he couldn't"
},
{
"end_time": 4204.002,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4176.664,
"text": " attribute some of the unexplained cases to Russia or to China specifically that he found indicators of it. Now obviously those indicators were likely set in a classified setting because he didn't elaborate past that and the two senators that were actually there that showed up I think there were three ultimately but one just popped in for one question and left. No one pushed him on it so it's either from the classified session or whatever."
},
{
"end_time": 4228.439,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4204.002,
"text": " So you can see that the Pentagon is now trying to kind of shift that discussion. I think that's the wrong thing. But it makes you wonder about the allegations against a disinformation campaign. Was this part of the plan? Now, as conspiratorial as that sounds, I will add this. Backtrack all the way to the 1960s, even to 1952 if you want it."
},
{
"end_time": 4257.807,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4229.053,
"text": " And their aim during the Project Blue Book era, the CIA realized that they needed to squash public interest in this, in UFOs and the UFO world. That was 1952 into 1953 with what they call the Robertson Panel, right? All of the documentation's out, so this isn't crazy talk. All of this is backed by official documents. They needed to explain, not investigate, but explain because they felt that the general public"
},
{
"end_time": 4279.48,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4258.08,
"text": " was the national security threat that we with our interest with our voice and with our ability could essentially overload the capabilities at the time of the US government and the military and start flooding 911 and so on and so forth. So it became less about investigation more about explanation."
},
{
"end_time": 4304.548,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4280.06,
"text": " And then when you get into the 1960s, the same thing happened. Very similar to today. You had whistleblowers that came out from the military. You had people that were essentially the debunkers. Well, they brought together a panel of scientists that ultimately led to what they call the Condon Committee Study. And they shut UFOs down in 1969 and officially closed it in January of 1970. What's the Condon Committee? Sorry."
},
{
"end_time": 4333.78,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4304.923,
"text": " Yeah, so that was essentially a culmination of scientists that were going to analyze the data that had been collected from 1947. I believe it was 1966 or so when they started looking at it or at least talking about it. But the data all the way through that date and they were going to analyze the findings of the Air Force and issue their conclusion per se. It was this a worthwhile phenomena to study."
},
{
"end_time": 4360.401,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4334.684,
"text": " and ultimately that scientific study determined no and so the government said we're not interested either and shut it all down because they felt that it wasn't a threat to national security and what objects they did collect and investigate were largely all identified and those that were not were simply because of lack of facts and and lack of data"
},
{
"end_time": 4380.486,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4360.93,
"text": " eerily similar to what Dr. Kirk Patrick just said to Congress. The majority of them, and he said majority, and there's a reason to put a pin in that for a second, but he said majority were clutter, identifiable objects, and whatever other"
},
{
"end_time": 4393.387,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4381.613,
"text": " That sounds believable because I imagine that the majority of what's unidentified is usually explainable."
},
{
"end_time": 4423.558,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4393.643,
"text": " were remaining unidentified. Okay, so that's not majority. But my whole point is actually opposite of what you might have thought I was going to say. I'm surprised that it wasn't 98% of clutter, misidentifications, and identifiable objects. Honestly, because I think that the human eye thinks they see things and given the proper scrutiny, yeah, you're talking about the high 90s. Easy. So the fact that it was a roughly half, that's amazing to me when you're talking about 650 cases."
},
{
"end_time": 4448.626,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 4423.558,
"text": " So as of mid or so April of 2023, he said in that hearing 650 cases, roughly half essentially weren't identified. So are we on the same path to what we were? Are these contradictions relevant? I say yes, especially for the history of this, but I say yes. And is there disinformation coming from all angles?"
},
{
"end_time": 4474.735,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 4448.848,
"text": " And I think that those are important questions with evidence to back it up that we need to be asking right now, because we don't have the answers. And one last final thought, and I pointed this on my YouTube channel myself, is when you look at Kirkpatrick Talk, he looks strained. He looks like he's forced to be there. Thank you, Chairwoman Geo Brand, Ranking Member Ernst, distinguished members of the subcommittee."
},
{
"end_time": 4501.647,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 4475.64,
"text": " It's a privilege to be here today to testify on the defense's efforts to address unidentified anomalous phenomena. First, I want to thank Congress for its extensive and continued partnership as the department works to better understand and respond to UAP in an effort to minimize technical and intelligence surprise. And he looks like he's forced to say what he is. That's an opinion. Let me stress that based on nothing but an opinion."
},
{
"end_time": 4526.681,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 4502.261,
"text": " But when you look at Dr. J. Alan Hynek, who happened to have been the main scientific advisor and consultant and scientist on the Project Blue Book UFO investigations through the 50s and 60s, when you look at his evolution, he was essentially made to explain UFOs. We know that because he later wrote books about it."
},
{
"end_time": 4543.114,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 4527.21,
"text": " There was a shift while he was working with the government that he had seen enough to realize the government was not taking it seriously. That he was forced to explain the objects, but a lot of objects could not be explained. And he went from that skeptic to believer"
},
{
"end_time": 4572.79,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 4543.507,
"text": " After he left the U.S. Air Force and Project Blue Book closed, he started his own UFO research organization and went on for years investigating UFOs and those with what they call physical trace evidence. I spent a lot of time with his protege, the late Ted Phillips, who sadly passed away a few years, but I had produced and wrote some history channel shows that profiled Dr. Hynek and Ted Phillips and the amount of information that they went out and collected"
},
{
"end_time": 4602.534,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 4572.79,
"text": " brought it back and and a lot of stuff that had you know quite a few question marks about it not proof of of aliens per se but rather question marks that led to what were these craft coming down what altered the soil why were these physical trace evidence left behind so on and so forth so now again going to comparing the the two errors here is Kirkpatrick just brought in as that scientist to be forced to explain"
},
{
"end_time": 4618.08,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 4602.961,
"text": " And I don't know. Again, maybe he just doesn't like cameras and doesn't like hearing settings and just was a little nervous. You know, that's a possibility. But to me, it screamed that he was forced to read. This is a lot of what we have is all explainable and what we don't."
},
{
"end_time": 4644.002,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 4618.08,
"text": " other signs of Russia and China, but I can't really go into it. And he went through those points. But again, I think that there's more to that story. And I think that hopefully in the years to come, we'll start really digging in and finding out what that story is. But I don't think the whole story is written yet. I really don't. And as much as the government wants to now lean on the balloon angle and essentially dismiss UAP,"
},
{
"end_time": 4668.131,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 4644.002,
"text": " In the sense that they can explain it so dismiss the the intrigue the mystery a little bit I don't think you can I really don't Was there a in the same way that with Sean there's a discernible tonality and body language shift, maybe not shift Well for Heineck was there a shift like he said that he was this way before then some way afterward Did you see it from how he was presenting himself for conducting himself? I"
},
{
"end_time": 4695.845,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 4668.814,
"text": " Times were a lot different in the 1950s and 60s. Film reels are going to be fairly limited. Obviously, film was round, but they didn't record everything like today. But when you hear Heineck talk in some of the earlier clips, because we went through a ton of stock footage, and by a ton, I just mean like every reel that we could find of J. Alan Heineck, and you can see a tone difference between those earlier days and his"
},
{
"end_time": 4711.715,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 4695.845,
"text": " Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 4730.981,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 4711.715,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person."
},
{
"end_time": 4746.374,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 4730.981,
"text": " They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms. There's also something called Shopify magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes."
},
{
"end_time": 4763.985,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 4746.374,
"text": " What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
},
{
"end_time": 4789.906,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 4763.985,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
},
{
"end_time": 4813.422,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 4789.906,
"text": " Hi, I'm here to pick up my son Milo. There's no Milo here. Who picked up my son from school? I'm gonna need the name of everyone that could have a connection. You don't understand. It was just the five of us."
},
{
"end_time": 4828.319,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 4814.138,
"text": " So this was all planned? What are you gonna do? I will do whatever it takes to get my son back. I honestly didn't see this coming. These nice people killing each other. All Her Fault, a new series streaming now only on Peacock."
},
{
"end_time": 4846.971,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 4830.435,
"text": " throughout what scientific evidence and proof was there to to collect and his main scope or I guess it's arguable if it was his main scope but his his protege and my my friend Ted Phillips who had mentioned earlier"
},
{
"end_time": 4873.558,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 4846.971,
"text": " his main scope was the physical trace evidence. That stuff that they could put in front of you and say, Kurt, here's the dirt from the landing area, here's the control sample, and here's the dirt analysis showing that it was called hydroponic, I think it is, where it rejects water when the control sample does not. I think it was called hydroponic?"
},
{
"end_time": 4890.998,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 4873.968,
"text": " Gosh, now I'm drawing a blank on it. It's been quite a few years. The science was a little over my head, but essentially it wouldn't suck in the water and make mud that the soil was changed to a point of not being able to get the water."
},
{
"end_time": 4911.032,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 4890.998,
"text": " Who is Stanton Friedman and what is the Majestic 12?"
},
{
"end_time": 4941.408,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 4912.193,
"text": " Stan was a friend of mine for over 20 years. I say that because he, I think, is one of the last true researchers in this field. Sadly, he passed away. But where I say one of the last, I don't think a lot of people understood the true research that Stan did. And he was an amazing individual with an amazing background of the work that he did with the US government."
},
{
"end_time": 4966.527,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 4941.698,
"text": " He and I became friends in the late 90s and his main scope of research was a group called Majestic 12 or MJ12. Now, he and I slightly differed on our beliefs of MJ12, but I was always impressed with the level that Stanton would go to. He believed that the original, what they call Majestic 12 documents that came out, that they were genuine."
},
{
"end_time": 4977.688,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 4966.527,
"text": " And essentially it was a group of government people and scientists that were essentially keeping UFOs and the extraterrestrial reality a secret."
},
{
"end_time": 5004.241,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 4978.592,
"text": " And he had dove in on every single character on those documents, the people that were mentioned, the claims that were made, even the typeset font on the era the documents were allegedly written, the signatures that came along with it. I think Truman was one of the signatures that they investigated. So"
},
{
"end_time": 5014.326,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5004.514,
"text": " When I say investigation, he did every ounce that you could think of when it came to Majestic 12, and he determined that they were real."
},
{
"end_time": 5043.729,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5014.701,
"text": " And I smile about it because, again, he and I differed. I didn't really feel that they were legitimate. I felt that they were based on a hoax. You had people that had come out and said that they were a hoax. But Stanton was true to the end, that he felt that they were real. And that always struck me because I had, I'll make the story quick, but I had an opportunity when I lectured in DC to go to the National Archives with"
},
{
"end_time": 5071.425,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5043.729,
"text": " Stanton Friedman. And again, he and I at this point, we're friends for quite a few years. So we were talking about it and we said, well, let's go together. It's great. What are the, you know, cause this guy was a legend, whether you believed him or not, it didn't matter what believed his research, I should say, or not. Guy was a legend. So we went and to see the care that he took that, that isn't even conveyed in his books or even as lectures, but to see that firsthand, he was there pulling boxes."
},
{
"end_time": 5089.172,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5071.766,
"text": " You were friends with them at this point or you became friends?"
},
{
"end_time": 5108.114,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5089.172,
"text": " and it was an amazing experience because you realize the amount of research that he did and he was one of those researchers which you don't see nowadays that would pick up the telephone and he would call people you know nowadays we're like let's just send an email maybe i can linkedin him you know uh no stan would pick up the phone he would figure out where people lived"
},
{
"end_time": 5127.21,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5108.114,
"text": " I respect that, I really do. It's always intrigued me, his determination on MJ12. Again, he knew that I differed a little bit on it, but friends to the end. Sadly though, he had passed away a couple years ago."
},
{
"end_time": 5149.053,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5127.5,
"text": " So you're conflicted about MJ-12 because you admire Stan so much, he believed in it, but you don't. At the same time, you want to give a bit more credence to what he believes in because you feel like he's such a great researcher, so it keeps that door open a bit more. That's exactly it. Yeah, and one last note that I'll add too that always kind of intrigued me was I have a huge collection of FBI files."
},
{
"end_time": 5169.138,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5149.377,
"text": " And one angle that Stanton had never really pursued, likely because it really didn't go to the legitimacy of the MJ-12 documents, was I had went after all of the FBI files of every single MJ-12 member and every single MJ-12 member had all or part"
},
{
"end_time": 5184.155,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5169.138,
"text": " of their FBI file destroyed. All a coincidence? Maybe, but there are millions and millions of pages of FBI files that have been released over the last quite a few decades, and yes, document destruction does happen."
},
{
"end_time": 5207.841,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5184.155,
"text": " But the odds to have all of the MJ-12 with either all or some of their file destroyed I always found intriguing. One last note, the FBI also has a file on Majestic 12, on MJ-12, the documents that we've been talking about here. And it essentially has a copy of the documents, but there's handwritten bogus on it across."
},
{
"end_time": 5225.93,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5208.183,
"text": " Handwritten bogus? Sorry, what does that mean? To ensure that nobody thought that they were real top secret documents. Meaning someone came about and wrote with a marker the word bogus. That's correct. Yeah, because the FBI determined that they were bogus. And so when you have a document that says top secret at the top,"
},
{
"end_time": 5254.394,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5225.93,
"text": " You don't want that misconstrued as actually being top secret if it's a bogus document. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to know is the standard like bogus sounds like a colloquial word though. So that's actually FBI lingo that they use frequently. I mean, I don't know how official of a term it is in this particular case. That's what they did off the top of my head. I can't think of any FBI file that I've gotten not that I've searched for it, but on any document investigation that they've done to figure out legitimacy."
},
{
"end_time": 5265.964,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5254.77,
"text": " And please don't read into that. I don't think off the top of my head I've ever gone after one. Majestic 12 exists, the file on that, because"
},
{
"end_time": 5286.34,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5266.476,
"text": " According to the FBI, somebody had found copies of these alleged top secret documents in a hotel, I think it was, and they sent them to the FBI and the FBI began an investigation to see if real top secret documents were laying on a hotel floor or if they were a hoax."
},
{
"end_time": 5301.408,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5286.493,
"text": " Now, they ultimately determined that they were bogus. And again, I don't know if that's an official term, but I'll have to look into that because now I'm morbidly curious. But the root of why they believed they were bogus"
},
{
"end_time": 5322.5,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 5301.766,
"text": " was the FBI initiated contact with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations or AFOSI and AFOSI had said to the FBI, well, we investigated this given now what you have told us and they are a hoax. So then that went back to the FBI, FBI writes bogus and the case is closed."
},
{
"end_time": 5349.48,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 5322.5,
"text": " So I revisited the file a couple of years ago and started tracking down the Air Force Office of Special Investigations files on what they did on MJ-12 because again, the FBI stuff still exists and they determined it was bogus based on what AFOSI said. So that's what you do in FOIA. You just kind of just keep going for leads. AFOSI. Yeah, Air Force Office of Special Investigations."
},
{
"end_time": 5358.148,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 5349.838,
"text": " And so I filed the request to them and found out just in the last few months that everything related to that was likely destroyed."
},
{
"end_time": 5380.282,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 5358.66,
"text": " So all of it is gone. None of us can find it. So I'm trying to look into the National Archives in hopes that maybe they had archived it there, but sadly this is another puzzle piece in history that was lost. So some skeptics point to that FBI file. So this is the bottom line point here. Some skeptics will point to that FBI file and say, well look,"
},
{
"end_time": 5405.572,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 5380.282,
"text": " You know, the federal government looked into this and the FBI deemed them bogus. But the root of that goes to a file we will never be able to access. There is no way to figure out why they term them as bogus. We just have to believe it, you know. So that doesn't prove anything other than another frustrating puzzle piece is gone for good that we'll never be able to find."
},
{
"end_time": 5429.889,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 5406.63,
"text": " What occurs to me is, is this field, this UFO field, UAP field, does it have more destroyed documents and misinformation than a generic field of the government? So for instance, the NSA and what Edward Snowden had leaked. I don't know if it's the case that prior to Edward Snowden, if you were to try and investigate it, you would run into as many dead ends and lies and so on. In other words,"
},
{
"end_time": 5456.237,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 5430.794,
"text": " Is this just a generic problem of the government or is there something special about this topic, this UAP topic? When it comes to destruction or secrecy or both? Destruction. So with destruction, I can tell you that the CIA is the most problematic that I've seen, that I know of, that has lost and or destroyed UFO documents."
},
{
"end_time": 5485.316,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 5456.886,
"text": " This goes back to material that cites UFO physical evidence that was collected by the CIA years after the closure of Project Blue Book. The documents heavily redacted, and there's quite a few of them now, I've got them all in different articles and stuff, but what I do is I pull these documents that were released, a lot of them in the late 1970s, some in the early 1980s, heavily redacted."
},
{
"end_time": 5511.271,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 5485.862,
"text": " And through what's called the mandatory declassification review process, it's like FOIA, but essentially it demands that an agency reviews a record. By now we've mentioned FOIA several times and so it's pertinent to give an overview for people who may be unacquainted. In 1966, a pivotal moment in American democracy occurred with the establishment of the Freedom of Information Act, colloquially known as FOIA."
},
{
"end_time": 5541.135,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 5511.271,
"text": " Congressman John Moss spearheaded this legislation, which fundamentally reshaped the power dynamics by demanding government transparency. The bill's implementation aimed to satisfy the need for answers and accountability. Initially met with resistance from Lyndon Johnson, FOIA eventually received his signature on July 4th, symbolically reinforcing the freedom it sought to grant. Over time, the FOIA underwent amendments, notably in 1974, after the Watergate scandal, and again in 1996 to adapt it to the digital era."
},
{
"end_time": 5556.169,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 5541.135,
"text": " This tool has been utilized by journalists, activists, and ordinary citizens to penetrate the bureaucratic barriers and expose the inner workings of those in power. Despite its inherent imperfections, FOIA remains as one of the few safeguards against governmental secrecy."
},
{
"end_time": 5575.555,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 5556.169,
"text": " Now it's advantageous to go over how do you make such a request as well as what are the best practices especially what to make sure that you definitely don't do. Number one to initiate a FOIA request begin by visiting the official FOIA website located on screen as well as you can just go to foia.gov foia.gov click the make a request button."
},
{
"end_time": 5600.418,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 5575.555,
"text": " Then you have to identify the appropriate agency. So for the UFO related information, a potential choice may be the DOD or NASA or the DIA or the CIA. Number two, once you've determined the appropriate agency, click its name, access this, you'll typically find an online form or an email address that you have to send your request to. Number three, you have to create a well-defined request. This is vital. Clearly specify the information you seek. We'll talk more about this in a moment."
},
{
"end_time": 5624.957,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 5600.418,
"text": " Number four, just know that the FOIA officers who process your request, they come in multiple forms. They can be a record manager, they can have specialized knowledge of the documents, they can be an attorney. Number five, once you've submitted your request, expect to receive at least an acknowledgement and a tracking number. That may take about a week. Don't be discouraged if you don't receive an immediate response. Number six, if it's denied, you can always file an appeal. Analyze the reason for the denial."
},
{
"end_time": 5642.568,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 5624.957,
"text": " As it may simply be a misunderstanding that can be resolved through clearer language or by negotiating the scope of your request. Number seven, throughout the process, just be respectful. Always be respectful. This can be difficult because you're frustrated, but approach them as collaborators rather than adversaries. That's what's most likely to receive assistance."
},
{
"end_time": 5663.097,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 5642.568,
"text": " And number eight, exercise patience. Sometimes these can take weeks, even months, even years, apparently. So one common mistake is to submit a request that's too broad, such as, look, I'm seeking any available reports, photographs or other records pertaining to UFO sightings reported to the DOD between January 1st and December 1st of some year. Please provide digital copies of these documents if available."
},
{
"end_time": 5681.152,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 5663.097,
"text": " Although this request sounds specific and clear, it's still overly broad. To make it even more precise and targeted, consider the following. I'm seeking reports, photographs, video evidence and incident evaluations specifically associated with the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program and the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force within the"
},
{
"end_time": 5708.473,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 5681.152,
"text": " And through what's called the mandatory declassification review process, it's like FOIA,"
},
{
"end_time": 5733.712,
"index": 251,
"start_time": 5708.473,
"text": " But essentially it demands that an agency reviews a record and what was classified 15 years ago may not be classified now. So they re-review the original and then essentially redo the redactions. Sometimes you end up where you started. Other times redactions are lifted and you get some stuff revealed. Other times I've had more redactions added. Go figure. But that's essentially the process."
},
{
"end_time": 5756.101,
"index": 252,
"start_time": 5734.138,
"text": " And so I went back to a lot of the more interesting CIA UFO documents requested an MDR that the CIA would look through all of these things. All the interesting ones, they're gone. The originals, poof, they shredded them, lost them, can't find them, so on and so forth. I can tell you when it comes to everything that I researched, because you and I are just talking about UFOs,"
},
{
"end_time": 5769.462,
"index": 253,
"start_time": 5756.596,
"text": " I've got over 3 million pages, close to 3.5 million pages now on all sorts of topics. You pick a government secret, I've generally done something on it. I can tell you UFOs and UAP are the most problematic. Why?"
},
{
"end_time": 5796.237,
"index": 254,
"start_time": 5769.821,
"text": " It seems like I can get nuclear weapons documents and secrets that way declassified than I can UFO material. Why? And that's actually true. I've got a big section on nuclear material. I wasn't being facetious. So why is that? You know, why do some cases when it comes to UAP, why are they so incredibly problematic? Why is the government so adamant about covering it up or destroying records?"
},
{
"end_time": 5826.51,
"index": 255,
"start_time": 5796.749,
"text": " And again, the CIA is the worst at that, but the DIA and the NSA also have lost each and every one of their redacted pages on UFOs. This is also provable. And I had received those in the late 90s, around 97, I think, is when I really received both the NSA and DIA material. And when I requested an MDR, this is probably 10 years ago now, on all of that redacted material, because there's a lot of it."
},
{
"end_time": 5856.459,
"index": 256,
"start_time": 5826.937,
"text": " And you realize that both the NSA and the DIA, they did not want to tell you everything about UFOs at the time. But fast forward, maybe they will. Requested that MDR. The NSA was up first. They told me they lost each and every one of the pages, all of them. And then the DIA was up second just because they're a lot slower. And they essentially said the exact same thing. Not the same documents. There's no connection with the NSA, but it's the same topic. And all of them were gone. They couldn't review anything."
},
{
"end_time": 5874.292,
"index": 257,
"start_time": 5856.852,
"text": " So the question mark is why? Why is it that I run into more problems like that? It's not a statistic bias either, meaning yes, I do a lot of UFO related requests, but I also I would say my non UFO related requests outnumber UFOs."
},
{
"end_time": 5892.568,
"index": 258,
"start_time": 5874.718,
"text": " That will probably surprise some people. But the non-UFO requests outnumber UFO-related requests. And statistically, I still have more document destruction, lost information, or problems with UFO-related requests than all other topics."
},
{
"end_time": 5923.575,
"index": 259,
"start_time": 5894.138,
"text": " One of those weird things. So for me, you hear a hearing, like the recent one with Kirkpatrick, and he says, the majority of them are all clutter, identifiable objects, so on and so forth. What he doesn't tell you is that through FOIA, I went after every single video from the US Navy, specifically, that was tagged or termed an unidentified aerial phenomena, or now it's anomalous phenomena, or UAP."
},
{
"end_time": 5950.759,
"index": 260,
"start_time": 5924.565,
"text": " They found videos, they won't tell me how many, they found them, 100% of them classified across the board. They won't give me any of them. Now, they claim that sources and methods, so I'm going to pull the MQ9 Reaper drone just as an example. Everything the MQ9 photographs or videos is classified. A review process has to take place for that to go out into the open. We just saw that in the recent hearing."
},
{
"end_time": 5959.002,
"index": 261,
"start_time": 5951.271,
"text": " that they can blur all the sensitive information that's on that video and release to you what they want you to see. They can do that."
},
{
"end_time": 5988.234,
"index": 262,
"start_time": 5959.616,
"text": " Yet they denied everything for me with the U.S. Navy and the Department of Defense as a whole also recently denied the exact same thing. So that would include the MQ-9 since it's Air Force. But now I'm getting into semantics. But the whole point being, how is it if the majority is trash clutter and identifiable objects, how is it that everything is classified? It doesn't make any sense. So it's like the public is hearing one thing"
},
{
"end_time": 6015.247,
"index": 263,
"start_time": 5988.234,
"text": " but documentation is saying another. And again, the biggest rebuttal that I get, especially through social media channels, is sources and methods. Because the government uses that excuse, so some people want to back that up and say, well, it's obvious the information is gathered by a classified platform, so they don't want to tell you. All of that could be true, except we have now ample evidence just in the last couple of months"
},
{
"end_time": 6039.514,
"index": 264,
"start_time": 6015.247,
"text": " that prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that they can release that imagery once the sensitive information is blurred. We saw that in the UAP hearing and then we also saw that with the MQ-9 shot of the Russian aircraft that sprayed it with the fuel, if you remember that, early in 2023. That was released within days of the incident."
},
{
"end_time": 6066.237,
"index": 265,
"start_time": 6040.196,
"text": " My whole point being is that classified platforms are taking videos all the time. And when the government wants you to see them, there's absolutely no problem for you to see them. So they can't fall back on the sources and methods. To me, that's null and void. They've proven that. So now it comes down to whatever the UAP is, is the classified part of the video. There's no other way to look at it because they've proven they can strip everything else out."
},
{
"end_time": 6094.462,
"index": 266,
"start_time": 6066.613,
"text": " and they can show you the object. In the MQ-9 example with the Russian jet, they can show you this jet come in, spray the fuel. In the UAP hearing, they can show you even what they call a UAP coming through the frame, and you see all these blurs, but again, proving that they could do it if they want to. And yet, with everything else, they won't do it. So for me, there's something there. That's not sources and methods. We can get rid of that argument."
},
{
"end_time": 6119.053,
"index": 267,
"start_time": 6094.923,
"text": " Uh, that's not foreign technology because they're doing, they're showing it already, you know, they're showing that Russian aircraft. If it's classified foreign technology, okay, we can start putting an argument up, but hundreds of cases, that doesn't make sense either. So I think that there's something there that's still worth pursuing, but the government is trying to make you forget about that."
},
{
"end_time": 6129.565,
"index": 268,
"start_time": 6119.514,
"text": " And I'll close this thought with my favorite analogy, which is the greatest trick of a magician. Look at my right hand so you don't see what my left hand is doing."
},
{
"end_time": 6158.746,
"index": 269,
"start_time": 6129.991,
"text": " They want you to look over here because they don't want you to see right here. And that is the absolute best way to summarize government secrecy and cover up. And it's something that has gone on well over a half a century, not only with UAP and UFOs, but pretty much with any secret that they don't want you to give. There's always a smoke screen or something that makes you look the opposite direction. And I think that that is what we are seeing unfold right now with UAP. So currently the smoke screen is balloons?"
},
{
"end_time": 6188.114,
"index": 270,
"start_time": 6159.718,
"text": " I think so. And what's on the left hand? If you were to speculate. Yeah. Well, I think you still have a... My guess is not as good as yours. Trust me. Well, now I'm curious on that. So the way that I would answer it is this though, when it comes to the balloons, is that you have documented incidents from the reports that are seen not only by the human eye or the pilot, but also multiple instruments. So you have multi-sensor observations doing"
},
{
"end_time": 6218.456,
"index": 271,
"start_time": 6189.07,
"text": " maneuvers according to, again, some of these documents that have come out that are not balloon-like. So you clearly have other aspects here. Are these stealth aircraft from Russia or China or Iran or North Korea or whatever that are flying over our training exercises? Okay, let's have that conversation. It should be out in the open. You know, we had the balloon conversation, so why not a stealth aircraft or something that exhibits these characteristics that they're seeing in UAP? Let's have that conversation, but they're not."
},
{
"end_time": 6241.817,
"index": 272,
"start_time": 6218.797,
"text": " So they want you to see these balloons. And again, the media latched onto that story in large part and started connecting UAP to these types of spy platforms. To me, there isn't that that connection yet. Like they haven't proven that it's the swamp gas of today. Drones a couple of years ago, balloons today and both."
},
{
"end_time": 6257.108,
"index": 273,
"start_time": 6242.517,
"text": " Ironically, going back to that form, both were mentioned on getting those UAP videos declassified. But again, just a very weird coincidence that you're talking about drones and balloons and that's what most skeptics will call them fall back on."
},
{
"end_time": 6284.735,
"index": 274,
"start_time": 6257.722,
"text": " And it's mostly and by skeptics and this one I will say because he's I consider him a friend. I don't know what he considers me. I like McWest a lot. I think he's great in this conversation but he's one that I got into a public conversation with recently where essentially you are making a determination based on not having all the evidence. You're saying that about him or he's saying that about you. Correct. So he's essentially saying that this is all"
},
{
"end_time": 6312.654,
"index": 275,
"start_time": 6285.162,
"text": " explainable and and and I'm paraphrasing I mean I wish I could bring up the tweet because I hate speaking on other people's behalves but so essentially he's saying that he's got his conclusion that there's not extraordinary evidence there because we haven't seen it and my argument is it's clear they are hiding everything they admit to hiding everything the videos being the main point here where they don't want you to see anything they will tell you one thing"
},
{
"end_time": 6331.8,
"index": 276,
"start_time": 6313.148,
"text": " But they're not giving you the evidence to support it. And so I made that point recently on social media with the clip of Kirkpatrick saying, you know, the majority is all identifiable. But then I source link to my story about the Navy denying 100% of anything they termed as a UAP."
},
{
"end_time": 6359.053,
"index": 277,
"start_time": 6332.21,
"text": " So those two things don't coincide with each other. Because you would think that the Navy may not be able to release everything, and I understand that, but I would at least get a couple examples of trash, trash, bird, plane, whatever, blurs all around, but you see a Cessna going through, fine, let's back all of this up. And that's my biggest problems, I'm speaking in general now, with skeptics that fight this topic."
},
{
"end_time": 6379.923,
"index": 278,
"start_time": 6359.889,
"text": " We are being denied all the evidence. We don't even see any of the data, with the exception of a few little clips in the hearing. We see nothing and skeptics are arguing saying, well, there's nothing to be seen there. Well, I mean, you haven't seen everything yet. And that's the problem. You can't make a conclusion without all the evidence."
},
{
"end_time": 6406.408,
"index": 279,
"start_time": 6380.299,
"text": " and then chastise others for making a conclusion without all the evidence. That's my whole point here is that if you're truly going to be unbiased, then let's get all the evidence. If we're being told we're being denied evidence, don't state a conclusion yet or at least fight for the evidence with us. To Mick's credit, he has. There was an effort to get"
},
{
"end_time": 6434.258,
"index": 280,
"start_time": 6406.817,
"text": " Data released and information released. Luis Jimenez with the big phone home. They did a petition, you know, different types of petitions that you can copy and paste and send it and send into your senator. And Mick West actually did that. He joined everybody else. I have a lot of respect for that. That's awesome. That's why I like him, you know, but most skeptics don't. They just have their conclusion and that's it. My argument is we definitely don't have all of it."
},
{
"end_time": 6462.363,
"index": 281,
"start_time": 6434.258,
"text": " and that to me is is uh... a big question on why because if we really are going down the same path as we did in the fifties and sixties where everything the majority of is explainable and that's fine let's see that information you can show us and don't fall back on sources and methods because every time they speak about it in my opinion they're putting their foot in their mouth deeper and deeper because the things don't make sense they don't match up"
},
{
"end_time": 6484.991,
"index": 282,
"start_time": 6462.773,
"text": " Leave the UFO arena and get a lot of other material easy, but when you stick with UFOs and UAP, all of a sudden it becomes really problematic and their excuses make no sense whatsoever. So a brief analogy would be if someone had a deck of cards, you can't see them, they reveal four of them and they're queens, and then someone in the back is saying, the whole deck is queens, why are you here? And you're saying, well, we haven't seen the other 48 cards."
},
{
"end_time": 6509.787,
"index": 283,
"start_time": 6485.452,
"text": " Yeah, and that's a great way to put it. I mean, the likelihood of them all being the same to some people, the likelihood would be they're all Queens. But to others, the likelihood would be, well, those are the four Queens in the deck. The rest are every other card in the deck. Depends on your mindset and how you look at it. But regardless, both parties still don't know. And that's my argument is that at the end of the day, we don't have all the pieces of the puzzle."
},
{
"end_time": 6537.176,
"index": 284,
"start_time": 6510.179,
"text": " There's this old joke about an engineer, a physicist and a mathematician. They're in a plane and they go by this island. Well, they see this black sheep and then the engineers like, oh, wow, the island is filled with black sheep or their black sheep on this island. And the physicist pipes up says, actually, we can only say one sheep is black. And the mathematician says, actually, we can only say that half of the sheep that we see is black. Do you feel like people don't give Luis enough credit for the big phone home and the good that he did with that?"
},
{
"end_time": 6555.64,
"index": 285,
"start_time": 6538.609,
"text": " I think Luis Jimenez doesn't give himself enough credit for what he did. The reason I say that is I think that he has shifted a little bit based on the postings that I've seen. And by a little bit, I think I mean a lot a bit on his viewpoint on this. He feels duped."
},
{
"end_time": 6579.275,
"index": 286,
"start_time": 6555.845,
"text": " He feels that there's not a whole lot to this and again I don't want to speak for him but the impression I get from his postings and he and I remain friends. I like the guy a lot. I think he's a great dude but he's definitely shifted his mindset. He won't do another big phone home as far as I'm concerned or that I'm aware of. He's changed the scope of his show and I think the root of that is the"
},
{
"end_time": 6600.657,
"index": 287,
"start_time": 6580.742,
"text": " Forgive the phrasing, but the heaps of BS that we have been confronted with since 2017. People get frustrated. People really do. The hostility just doesn't exist on the side of those I-wanna-believers."
},
{
"end_time": 6630.555,
"index": 288,
"start_time": 6601.101,
"text": " The hostility can come up from people that are so upset because they feel duped. And I'm not gearing that just to Luis Jimenez, but rather there's quite a few people that have gone from believer or someone who felt that there was something to these phenomena worthy of scrutiny to, oh my gosh, I was duped. Forget this. Some we still see on social media. Others we don't. Others have just gone."
},
{
"end_time": 6649.735,
"index": 289,
"start_time": 6631.015,
"text": " Unfortunately, you see that with people that only had the experience of the last couple of years and have realized that there's been a lot of BS that has been slung. That's the easiest way to put it. And some people just don't have time for it."
},
{
"end_time": 6677.005,
"index": 290,
"start_time": 6650.333,
"text": " I love it. I have a day job that has nothing to do with the black vault. I work about 70, 80 hours a week, but I'm very lucky. I built that business and it allows me to sometimes check in on social media. I have four monitors in front of me. I can keep screens up to just kind of pay attention. As I do a lot of daytime work on screen number four, I can peek to screen number one. I'm very lucky in that regard and kind of pay attention, so to speak."
},
{
"end_time": 6697.005,
"index": 291,
"start_time": 6677.005,
"text": " Others don't have that luxury, and they want that bottom line. They don't want to feel duped, and when they do, they're out. And I don't blame them. It's frustrating. I'm a very outspoken advocate for saying, do not look at the last five years and judge the UFO topic, because it's a mess. It really is."
},
{
"end_time": 6724.002,
"index": 292,
"start_time": 6697.005,
"text": " There's a lot of people who think I'm a skeptic out there or a debunker. And to be honest with you, I'm skeptical and I don't mind debunking, but it's quite the opposite for me that I believe there's more to this. Can I prove to you there's aliens flying over us? No. Do I believe that 100%? No. But I'm not a skeptic or a debunker. You got to look at my 26 years. But in the last five or now close to six, I guess,"
},
{
"end_time": 6739.462,
"index": 293,
"start_time": 6724.804,
"text": " When you look at what we've been confronted with, we can't be afraid to challenge it, right? We can't. And we can't be afraid to find out somebody lied to us. We have to find out why."
},
{
"end_time": 6763.814,
"index": 294,
"start_time": 6739.974,
"text": " None of that kills the 50 plus year history to this topic. 75 plus year history to this topic. There's too much. There's too much material that has come out from the US government supporting that these phenomena are not balloons or drones. They're not. It's just plain and simple. We have surpassed the amount of time in the world of government secrecy."
},
{
"end_time": 6788.712,
"index": 295,
"start_time": 6764.258,
"text": " that if some of these objects that are within government documents 40, 50, 60 years ago, which do exist, that display characteristics that we didn't have at the time, which is true, going faster than this faster aircraft that we had on record at the time. I'm not trying to give a shameless plug, but I documented that in the book behind my head. And the reason I say that is"
},
{
"end_time": 6802.688,
"index": 296,
"start_time": 6788.712,
"text": " The book behind your head is?"
},
{
"end_time": 6821.971,
"index": 297,
"start_time": 6803.063,
"text": " And so what I do is I highlight some of those documents. So I apologize. I'm not trying to give a shameless plug. People would want to be able to find out more. I appreciate that. But my point being is that we've surpassed the part that I think we would need to get to that if these were secret government programs,"
},
{
"end_time": 6841.169,
"index": 298,
"start_time": 6822.193,
"text": " if these were something that was being tested at the time that we would have learned about it by now. I guess the general rule of thumb, or at least it used to be, we're about 30 to 50 years behind hearing what they're actually in development of, meaning the general public. So we hear about it roughly 30 to 50 years after the fact."
},
{
"end_time": 6856.015,
"index": 299,
"start_time": 6841.169,
"text": " Well, we've far surpassed that at this point. So when you go back and look at some of those older documents, and admittedly, to some people, they're going to be snoozy. It's like, I don't care what happened in 1952. Well, you should, because at that time, the Freedom of Information Act didn't exist."
},
{
"end_time": 6873.336,
"index": 300,
"start_time": 6856.288,
"text": " There was no concerted effort to be careful about what you wrote down. Rather, it was just documenting that information, the experience, the case, what they saw, what that UFO or in using their phraseology, flying saucers, what that was."
},
{
"end_time": 6899.787,
"index": 301,
"start_time": 6873.763,
"text": " And there was no fear that one day some John Greenwald guy would come out and start pounding the government for answers through FOIA. Rather this was all written prior to that. So you kind of see that it's a little looser when they put things down because nowadays, yeah, there's going to be some more caution on what you're going to put in an open channel. You're going to make sure that it's in proper channels because people like me can"
},
{
"end_time": 6929.787,
"index": 302,
"start_time": 6899.787,
"text": " FOIA and go after it. But again, we should have heard about that technology that can connect to those past cases and you don't have it. But one thing that I've spoken a lot about is the government tried that actually, namely the CIA with the flights of the U-2. And they tried it at, I forget what year it was, but it was essentially the dawn of their Twitter account when CIA joined Twitter. And one of their first posts or most popular ones was"
},
{
"end_time": 6942.927,
"index": 303,
"start_time": 6930.725,
"text": " Paraphrasing slightly, but do you remember all the UFOs in the 1950s? That was us and a link to a declassified document on the U2. It was a joke or they meant it?"
},
{
"end_time": 6970.35,
"index": 304,
"start_time": 6943.473,
"text": " They meant it. They were trying to because the document itself then connected the U2 flights to some of what people were seeing at the time in the 1950s. Well, the problem was that the U2 didn't even get off the ground until the mid 1950s. So you're not talking about the 50s. Here's talking about the latter half of it. But then on top of that, there was really not one major UFO case that I ever saw that was ever attributed to a U2 flight."
},
{
"end_time": 7000.555,
"index": 305,
"start_time": 6970.725,
"text": " Meaning now we know all the U2 flights. Decades ago we didn't know that, but now they've all been declassified. You can track the history, you can track the documents, see where they were, see where they flew, see the altitudes. All that stuff is declassified because again, that 30 to 50 year rule, all of a sudden these secrets start trickling out. Yet when you go back decades to this UFO material, there's no connection there. Absolutely none. So there was no connection to the U2 in my opinion that the government was trying to connect."
},
{
"end_time": 7011.971,
"index": 306,
"start_time": 7001.032,
"text": " So I filed a FOIA request to the CIA seeking out all of the research and communication they did to structure that tweet. As silly as that sounds,"
},
{
"end_time": 7041.817,
"index": 307,
"start_time": 7012.381,
"text": " The government agencies, they get in a lot of trouble when they post things out to the general public and it's wrong. Wait, hold on. Sorry. You filed a FOIA for what precisely? Why did they make the tweet or what was the... Right. So as the CIA, they don't just tweet stuff out. There's an approval process. There are people that need to be involved, fact-checking what image is the CIA going to have by this particular tweet, so on and so forth. Sounds excruciating. Just a tweet. It is. Look, it is."
},
{
"end_time": 7071.459,
"index": 308,
"start_time": 7041.817,
"text": " But what's great about it is the paper trail. And for people like me, I dig that. And so that's what I did. I went after that paper trail. This sounds like a joke question. Is there a paper trail for also what do they heart and retweet? Like, do they have to have a reason for bookmarking, for hearting, for... Well, since bookmarking I don't think is public, I don't think that that would be a protocol. Liking, I would imagine there wouldn't be a paper trail, but more so a social media manual."
},
{
"end_time": 7091.937,
"index": 309,
"start_time": 7072.244,
"text": " So protocol manuals on who manages the social media account. So yeah, I'm sure there's rules and procedures for a like or a share. I'm guessing there probably would be for a share, but the likes probably not, but I'm sure there's procedures for it. Okay, going back to your FOIA request. Yeah, no problem."
},
{
"end_time": 7112.927,
"index": 310,
"start_time": 7092.824,
"text": " So I filed the request for all the emails, all the research, you know, what did you guys base this on other than the document they posted, but like who did this, right? Well, the names were redacted. That's a standard and pretty common. But essentially the email exchange was this. Again, the names were redacted, so I can't name them, but"
},
{
"end_time": 7134.343,
"index": 311,
"start_time": 7113.439,
"text": " The one person goes to likely a supervisor or a boss and says, hey, what about this? Because it was world UFO day around that time. So they were trying to like latch on to world UFO day and put out the tweet, you know, in the email print printed it out. The supervisor essentially said, yep, looks good. And that was it."
},
{
"end_time": 7159.531,
"index": 312,
"start_time": 7134.872,
"text": " Now, some might think, well, okay, well, that's standard. It's just a tweet. Well, that's generally not how it works, that there are drafts and like they really kind of get into this, especially if you're making the claim that you're taking credit for UFOs from the 1950s. But that was it. That was the basis and the extent of the conversation. And I got those emails out and that was it. But why I bring it up is it's laughable."
},
{
"end_time": 7188.302,
"index": 313,
"start_time": 7160.128,
"text": " Because it that's essentially how much research they do on UFO related statements Roswell is another prime example, you know, they change their I don't know what to think about Roswell I'm not here to argue that it was a flying saucer alien craft that crashed But what I do find funny is the fact that they needed to change their story four times over the course of decades and what I did was I dissected the fourth one and even that doesn't line up they were trying to blame and"
},
{
"end_time": 7213.712,
"index": 314,
"start_time": 7188.695,
"text": " The alien bodies, I use quotes because I don't know, but the stories related to alien bodies, there's quite a few people that were first-hand information sources that have passed away, but their stories live on and then others secondhand, but there were quite a few stories. They tried to blame that on Air Force crash test dummies. The problem was that Roswell happened five years before crash test dummies were even invented."
},
{
"end_time": 7236.783,
"index": 315,
"start_time": 7213.712,
"text": " So they're trying to attribute things that didn't even exist at the time to something that happened in 1947. They also said that multiple Air Force crashes were a few Air Force pilots were either injured or killed. There were multiple crashes. Those happened both nine and 12 years after Roswell."
},
{
"end_time": 7263.951,
"index": 316,
"start_time": 7237.381,
"text": " So how is that connected, right? But that's what the Air Force says. And again, anybody can fact check that. So why is it that every time they speak to UFO related cases or questions, they can't get it right? They just can't. And when you're talking about the majority of identifiable objects, which is what they want us to believe present day, why is that?"
},
{
"end_time": 7282.517,
"index": 317,
"start_time": 7265.691,
"text": " You don't. And I say somewhat because, look, the reality is like we talked earlier,"
},
{
"end_time": 7312.312,
"index": 318,
"start_time": 7282.961,
"text": " Drones, balloons, spy technology and classified platforms are part of this conversation, whether we like to believe it or not. It just is. That's the reality. So you're encroaching on classified material. So you're obviously going to find denials and you're going to find roadblocks. That's expected. I get that. I navigate those bombs all the time on all sorts of topics, but not like this. And that's what's kept me interested for 26 plus years because they can't get it right."
},
{
"end_time": 7319.923,
"index": 319,
"start_time": 7313.08,
"text": " And that's what I can't explain. I don't know. I can't prove it's aliens to you, but I can't prove that you can rule it out either."
},
{
"end_time": 7348.541,
"index": 320,
"start_time": 7320.299,
"text": " you know based on the information at hand if they released everything we can then have a different discussion but the reality is is that they're holding on to so much and in some cases the most valuable data that visual stuff a hundred percent of it or near one hundred percent that makes it impossible to rule anything out or believe anything and and that's what i think we need to really tackle is why is that secrecy there in the first place because their explanation does not make sense"
},
{
"end_time": 7368.387,
"index": 321,
"start_time": 7349.411,
"text": " Does your frustration ever turn to bitterness? You know, bitterness is a good word for it. I get angry. You know, you can't help but not. My record for waiting alone, let's not even talk about the FOIA games, waiting is 14 and a half years."
},
{
"end_time": 7397.944,
"index": 322,
"start_time": 7368.831,
"text": " Imagine waiting for a request to be processed for 14 and a half years. It wasn't even a UFO related request. The result wasn't even interesting, but it was 14 and a half years. That's incredibly frustrating. The games that are played, connecting it to the UAP topic, one specific one is one that has frustrated me to no end. I've been fighting it now for two years. The US Navy, when it comes to UAP related requests, will randomly close the request."
},
{
"end_time": 7416.613,
"index": 323,
"start_time": 7398.285,
"text": " And say that they will add responsive material to their online what they call reading room. Excuse me but they they close the request so there's no way to track it and you don't get updates you just have to like sit on the page and refresh it and I recently found cases that were closed a over a year ago UFO related."
},
{
"end_time": 7435.52,
"index": 324,
"start_time": 7416.937,
"text": " that had never been added to the reading room at all. So I've been fighting it, but these types of games make it so incredibly hard for researchers and for people like me, FOIA requesters, to make sense of all of it. And when they play those games, yeah, you can't help but be bitter."
},
{
"end_time": 7451.493,
"index": 325,
"start_time": 7436.101,
"text": " But there are those that really do want to help. Honestly, there are some great FOIA officers through some of the agencies. There are some that are awful and they're just not into their job at all. There are others that are there to help. And if they don't know,"
},
{
"end_time": 7473.131,
"index": 326,
"start_time": 7451.493,
"text": " They're open to listen to you. In some cases, I've helped FOIA officers on sometimes where to look for stuff and I laugh about it, but just because I've been doing it for so long and sometimes this is just their assignment, especially with different military facilities and stuff like that. Sometimes they're just there for six months and they get assigned and they got to learn on the job and so on."
},
{
"end_time": 7498.012,
"index": 327,
"start_time": 7473.131,
"text": " You have a wide spectrum of people to deal with and and it does get frustrating you become bitter but at the end of the day I try not to I try and swallow all of that because The only result is to give up for me, you know, and and I'm not gonna I don't want to so I just have to swallow all that sometimes it'll come out my frustration comes out in a letter and usually when it does it's it's well deserved and"
},
{
"end_time": 7511.834,
"index": 328,
"start_time": 7498.285,
"text": " But you just can't give up. I mean, that's what they want you to do. And if you stick to your guns, you could be doing it for years or like me, more than 26. For them, they're likely not going to be in that FOIA office."
},
{
"end_time": 7528.933,
"index": 329,
"start_time": 7512.432,
"text": " so they may upset you but they're likely not going to be there indefinitely so they'll they'll move on to a different office or whatever and then you can either try again or hopefully your frustration will subside but yeah it gets challenging i ain't gonna lie it is it gets pretty rough sometimes"
},
{
"end_time": 7549.36,
"index": 330,
"start_time": 7529.565,
"text": " It seems to me like what happens, and this is just from my cursory glance of being in, I'm not in this field, but of surveying it, is that people get into this because they feel like it's consequential. It's a meaningful subject. They look into it, then they're confronted with misinformation and disinformation. They put a stake in the ground saying, I believe in this or I don't believe in this."
},
{
"end_time": 7576.971,
"index": 331,
"start_time": 7549.36,
"text": " You nailed it. I ain't gonna lie. There's no way to rebut that. I think that people get into this because they're curious, they want answers. Some people have more time than others, but"
},
{
"end_time": 7606.817,
"index": 332,
"start_time": 7578.302,
"text": " those that get into it and they see that BS, they give up. We've seen it. I spoke about it previously a little bit, but you absolutely nailed it because those people don't have time for the BS. They want the answers. There's a lot of good people out there that may even want to believe. They may even not know how to research. They may not know even how to ask the right questions. And I don't chastise those people at all. They're curious. They're there. They want to learn. They want to read. They want to"
},
{
"end_time": 7632.892,
"index": 333,
"start_time": 7607.125,
"text": " understand and that's why I get passionate about the topic because there's so much there to think about, so much real stuff to think about and to explore and to learn from and to kind of scratch our heads over and to expand on. We need more people to ask those important questions or try and get more answers."
},
{
"end_time": 7646.271,
"index": 334,
"start_time": 7633.558,
"text": " And that's why I get passionate because when you see the BS slung people buy it hook line and sinker and there's nothing worse than realizing you were wrong to believe it in the first place. So the normal reaction is"
},
{
"end_time": 7666.8,
"index": 335,
"start_time": 7646.766,
"text": " See ya. I'm done. I'm out."
},
{
"end_time": 7678.729,
"index": 336,
"start_time": 7666.8,
"text": " that are here to learn. That's what this is all about. Because the implications behind it are much more than figuring out a program name or an acronym or did this study UFOs or not."
},
{
"end_time": 7705.879,
"index": 337,
"start_time": 7679.002,
"text": " All of that stuff is just, they're small puzzle pieces that I care about because I love history. But this all sits on a foundation that is much more important. And we question ourselves, we question who we are, we literally can question our place in the universe. If any ounce of this is true, if any small percentage truly does connect to an extraterrestrial whatever, that to me is what's worth it."
},
{
"end_time": 7720.009,
"index": 338,
"start_time": 7706.186,
"text": " And for people to give up on that curiosity that they have because they were lied to, that's awful to me. I hate it. I really do. I think the field, if you want to call it that, has lost some great people."
},
{
"end_time": 7742.193,
"index": 339,
"start_time": 7720.418,
"text": " due to their bitterness, their frustration, and their anger over what they experienced. And in the cases that I'm referring to, first-hand experiences. And they felt duped, and they feel lied to, and they feel that this is a charade, and so the two words, I'm out, and they leave."
},
{
"end_time": 7770.759,
"index": 340,
"start_time": 7742.602,
"text": " And I think that the field itself has lost a lot of great people because it deserves the attention. It deserves a scientific scrutiny and it deserves the human mind to look at it. It really does. I wouldn't be around. I don't have time to waste my time on something. And yet I feel that it's worth it because I think the root of it is important. And I think there's enough evidence to support that those that want to should stick around and know that those that are"
},
{
"end_time": 7774.616,
"index": 341,
"start_time": 7771.374,
"text": " being caught in lies or maybe out to be malicious or"
},
{
"end_time": 7803.49,
"index": 342,
"start_time": 7775.35,
"text": " Whatever. Fill in the blank. It's just part of the territory. I don't know why that is. It just is. And we have to kind of learn to differentiate that if they say, and I'll make it simplistic, look, I researched this house and the house is blue, then fine. Prove to me that the house is blue. Don't say, trust me, bro. You know, and that's been kind of the ongoing joke that a lot of this is now the whole trust me, bro. You know, I've got anonymous sources and I pull my hair out with the whole anonymous source thing."
},
{
"end_time": 7820.93,
"index": 343,
"start_time": 7803.626,
"text": " I really do because people base their stories, claims, tweets, blogs on all these secret anonymous sources and it's solely based on that. There's a room for anonymous sources in journalism. Don't get me wrong. But when you solely base your claims and in some cases or most cases,"
},
{
"end_time": 7835.179,
"index": 344,
"start_time": 7820.93,
"text": " Those claims are astronomical. It's just not going to cut it and it doesn't do the field any good to make these empty promises. And that's again going back to what I was saying a few minutes ago. That's why I get passionate."
},
{
"end_time": 7864.514,
"index": 345,
"start_time": 7835.589,
"text": " That's why I get outspoken. That's why I get myself in trouble with some people. And I've learned to really try and just swallow it and not go after people. But yeah, sometimes you get angry because people don't appreciate, I think, the reality of what this topic is and the seriousness of it. And when you don't allow other facts to maybe change your mind, I have. I've changed my mind a thousand times over the years."
},
{
"end_time": 7893.541,
"index": 346,
"start_time": 7865.094,
"text": " That's okay. We have to be okay with that. There's nothing set in stone yet. But too many then fall victim to the, my mind's made up, don't bother me with the facts mindset. And then they will go after the curious minds that I were talking about. They get chastised to death. And then they go, you know what, I'm done. And they leave. And it's a shame. Let's talk about some specifics now. What are your views on the Wilson docs? What have you uncovered? Sorry, Wilson memos."
},
{
"end_time": 7907.534,
"index": 347,
"start_time": 7894.104,
"text": " Yeah, it's a hot, hot, hot topic in the last few years and it's one that I think is fake. And that's based on a couple of different things. When the story first surfaced, look, I don't just automatically dismiss."
},
{
"end_time": 7924.787,
"index": 348,
"start_time": 7908.029,
"text": " But obviously I was very skeptical. There were a lot of anonymous sources that fed information to hear to there about the root of where these documents came from. That bothered me from the get-go, but I looked into it anyway. I was getting asked the question a lot and so I didn't mind looking into it."
},
{
"end_time": 7950.811,
"index": 349,
"start_time": 7925.162,
"text": " What I found was the majority of the story, believers in this document will disagree with me, by the way, but I'm going to say it anyway, hinged on a what they called NRO document or National Reconnaissance Office document that was taken by, I guess, Stephen Greer and Will Miller and Edgar Mitchell to meet with Admiral Wilson in the Pentagon and essentially was giving them a"
},
{
"end_time": 7978.831,
"index": 350,
"start_time": 7951.169,
"text": " MJ-12 keyword list, majestic, magic, all these different keywords on this document. Well, this document then set Wilson off, according to the story, set Wilson off on his journey to find these UFO related programs, ended up finding one or more, got denied access, and he decides to come back and found Dr. Eric Davis, met him,"
},
{
"end_time": 8007.824,
"index": 351,
"start_time": 7979.48,
"text": " in a dark street on a, I mean, I'm making a part of these, but it's like a movie, you know, meet some, meet some in Las Vegas. They have their conversation. Eric Davis writes down these notes and essentially the legend is born. Well, the problem now going back to that's an incredibly nutshell version of the story, but the problem with the start of the story is this NRO document. The NRO document is tied to a Dr. Steven Greer."
},
{
"end_time": 8020.811,
"index": 352,
"start_time": 8008.166,
"text": " and Stephen Greer has a controversial past. Without going through that part of it, the document itself, in my opinion, is an easily proven fake."
},
{
"end_time": 8046.152,
"index": 353,
"start_time": 8021.271,
"text": " I did a full video breakdown of it. There's a lot of reasons why, but the short of it is you have quite a few errors within it. You have the wrong seal at the top. It actually has a US Air Force seal on it. The National Reconnaissance Office has its own seal. It's not part of the Air Force. People have tried to argue this. Look, no argument makes sense. I think that people have realized it's a hoax after I made this video."
},
{
"end_time": 8056.834,
"index": 354,
"start_time": 8046.613,
"text": " The believers in the Wilson Davis documents have now said the NRO documents are relevant. This is what set Wilson off on the journey."
},
{
"end_time": 8079.804,
"index": 355,
"start_time": 8057.483,
"text": " I'm surprised that they didn't even really fight me on the legitimacy of the document. They just kind of are now removing it from the story. And they're saying, well, it doesn't really matter what Greenwald says. The document is fake, but who cares? It's not the glue to the story. Well, okay, fine. Moving on from that document, the problem then is the whole idea and concept"
},
{
"end_time": 8103.114,
"index": 356,
"start_time": 8079.804,
"text": " that an Admiral, a former J2, would violate a security clearance, come out and talk to Dr. Eric Davis in a car and allow him either to take notes or have it, you know, essentially being put out into the open. I mean, those guys both have security clearances, Davis included. So the likelihood of that would be incredibly nil."
},
{
"end_time": 8127.858,
"index": 357,
"start_time": 8103.592,
"text": " uh... people fall back on the notes uh... saying wilson stated if it ever came out he would deny it so wilson has denied he's gone on the record with uh... journalist out of florida and he denies the whole thing well the believers go aha the notes said he would deny it ergo it's true i'm like well okay you guys gotta look at the anatomy of a hoax here i mean you can clearly set up these these types of"
},
{
"end_time": 8152.824,
"index": 358,
"start_time": 8127.858,
"text": " There was talk in the first UAP hearing about the Wilson Davis notes."
},
{
"end_time": 8181.357,
"index": 359,
"start_time": 8152.961,
"text": " And I just, Politico quoted me in this. I called it a facepalm moment. And it was just like, oh God, like what? Of all the history, of UFOs, of all the documents that are available, of everything that you guys can throw in front of Congress, all of a sudden Wilson Davis comes up. And I called it a facepalm moment, but then I started thinking about it after the fact and Politico published their piece. And I stand by my quote, but now I'm like, throw them in front of everybody."
},
{
"end_time": 8207.841,
"index": 360,
"start_time": 8182.108,
"text": " Put them under oath and ask them. Sorry, I meant them, but throw them in front of everybody and put them both under oath and have them tell the story. And if Wilson still denies it, then where do we go from there? And just call it a day. But the problem for me is that's not what we should focus on, in my opinion, because I just don't think it's a legitimate thing. Other people have, and I want to make sure I add this in because I'll get a lot of hate mail,"
},
{
"end_time": 8223.183,
"index": 361,
"start_time": 8207.841,
"text": " from your fans that that may support this document but the idea that there are factual tidbits woven in in this document meaning i think oak shannon had a health problem who is one of the individuals named"
},
{
"end_time": 8250.06,
"index": 362,
"start_time": 8223.183,
"text": " and who I consider a friend also, Jay from Project Unity, had actually tracked down Oak Shannon, and I give him a lot of credit for that, because he added to the story. He tracked this guy down, did an interview, and although the guy didn't say, look, these notes are real, he essentially confirmed the part where he had a medical issue at the time, was very hard to get a hold of, he was the guy that allegedly Admiral Wilson had contacted,"
},
{
"end_time": 8265.776,
"index": 363,
"start_time": 8250.06,
"text": " To ask about eric davis credibility right so this guy comes out and it kind of confirmed the health issue and so then the argument began well look if it's a hoax how would all of these real facts get in there."
},
{
"end_time": 8296.254,
"index": 364,
"start_time": 8266.305,
"text": " No one's considering the fact that if it is a hoax, and it was written by someone that had the knowledge of the details there, that it would be from a very small select group of people. And sadly, when it comes to these types of government people, a lot of them stay around each other through history. You know, the Dr. Howell put off, Eric Davis, all those guys have found themselves in very tight-knit groups through the years, through different programs and research endeavors."
},
{
"end_time": 8311.715,
"index": 365,
"start_time": 8296.647,
"text": " And so look, I'm not, I'm not accusing Davis of writing it. I'm not accusing put off, but rather it doesn't surprise me that you're going to have factual elements in a hoax document. So you can't rely on that. You can't say, well, this guy really did have health issues."
},
{
"end_time": 8334.48,
"index": 366,
"start_time": 8311.715,
"text": " Ergo, it's a real document. I'm not saying this, but I could easily come back and say, well, you've only supported the fact that he had health issues. Maybe he wrote it. I'm not making that claim, but that rebuttal has just as much weight as saying that the documents are confirming the existence of crashed alien spacecraft."
},
{
"end_time": 8359.753,
"index": 367,
"start_time": 8334.48,
"text": " so you know you you do have that debate there so not to go off on a tangent but but I said earlier in the interview how you have to drill in to every single aspect to these phenomena these cases these photographs these videos every single thing and you gotta put it under a microscope the same is true for document that's you know eight nine pages whatever it is you have to look at every little thing you have to look at every"
},
{
"end_time": 8384.787,
"index": 368,
"start_time": 8360.64,
"text": " fact that you can squeeze out of it, every potential fabrication you can squeeze out of it, who is involved and so on and go from there. And I just think at this point, you don't have anything to support that these notes were legitimate. Many fall back to the fact that they were found in Edgar Mitchell's estate. I don't think that that's refuted, nor would I refute it. I'm sure that they probably would be."
},
{
"end_time": 8407.807,
"index": 369,
"start_time": 8384.787,
"text": " I shook hands with Edgar Mitchell many times. I met him through the years, lectured at the same conferences. There was a very young me picture in my early lecture days and him next to a stage. So I met him. And I can tell you he was an amazing individual and American hero. But amazing individuals and American heroes can get duped as well."
},
{
"end_time": 8430.469,
"index": 370,
"start_time": 8408.131,
"text": " And so whomever gave him those documents, it doesn't automatically make them gospel that he kept them in his archive. So I think that a lot of the arguments that are going to say, look, they were in Edgar Mitchell's estate. Oh, that doesn't really matter. This tidbit was real. Well, that doesn't really matter. We need to get actual verifiable proof. If you're going to say these notes confirm alien crashed spacecraft,"
},
{
"end_time": 8456.101,
"index": 371,
"start_time": 8430.469,
"text": " and that there are secret programs investigating that in the private sector that deny even a J2 access to it. You gotta do a little bit more than that in my book. So the counter is, hey, you're saying that someone made a hoax, gave it to Edgar Mitchell, put in some fact about Oak Shannon sickness that you would have to uncover decades later by interviewing sources, by interviewing people."
},
{
"end_time": 8478.08,
"index": 372,
"start_time": 8457.159,
"text": " How likely is that? Is that the counter? No. In fact, for me, the counter, and I'm not saying it's a script, and this really upsets a lot of people out there, but in the video breakdown I did, I used a script as a potential alternate explanation."
},
{
"end_time": 8498.012,
"index": 373,
"start_time": 8478.575,
"text": " that if somebody was creating a fictionalized scene of something that was happening, this was a way to do it. You have real people, you have real events, you pull in real facts. When you read it, it's even using a bunch of exclamation points that"
},
{
"end_time": 8518.729,
"index": 374,
"start_time": 8498.012,
"text": " Interrupted and there's like scene cues what we would call scene cues now I wrote scripts for quite a long time for yeah I noticed that as well when I read that I found that odd and I hadn't seen than any other document But I haven't read several other documents like you know well there's an in fairness There's not many that allege the same thing or have the same type of backstory, so it's kind of a standalone"
},
{
"end_time": 8545.435,
"index": 375,
"start_time": 8518.729,
"text": " a standalone issue here where you kind of have to start from scratch and evaluate this thing. But yeah, the way that it was written was a little bit unique. Now, if somebody wants to put a pile of Eric Davis notes in front of me and that's how he writes, cool, we can have that conversation. But for me, I used a hypothetical alternative that in my opinion had just as much evidence to support it."
},
{
"end_time": 8575.06,
"index": 376,
"start_time": 8545.759,
"text": " I pulled a script, I just happened it's in my shelves behind that curtain back there, but I have a script from around the same era of essentially scene setups the same way, the dialogue the very similar way. You dissect what was popular at the time, it were paranormal themed television shows. You look at, I think Jonathan Frakes was hosting one, The X-Files was popular,"
},
{
"end_time": 8595.998,
"index": 377,
"start_time": 8575.316,
"text": " So I was using that as kind of like this potential alternative that in my book had just as much supporting, circumstantial, barely any evidence to support it. But why not consider that? If you're truly unbiased, you'll consider both. I can consider that it's real. Absolutely. Somebody shows it to me tomorrow."
},
{
"end_time": 8626.186,
"index": 378,
"start_time": 8596.186,
"text": " You can air this to your audience. I would believe it. If I have enough proof, I will change my mind. That's not a problem. What interests me are the people that will come down on you and never change your mind, won't even consider it. And to this day, I get people that have their sarcastic, oh, it's like Greenwald thinking it's a script again or something like that. I stand by it. I mean, it had all the hallmarks of being a fictionalized creative account of an event."
},
{
"end_time": 8643.592,
"index": 379,
"start_time": 8626.681,
"text": " And I even went into, I mean, you can start filling in the blanks, but Davis had recently lost his job around that time with Robert Bigelow. Yeah, you want to go on a stretch? Hey, what if this was concocted for him to save his job? Like, hey, look, these are the types of meetings that I've had."
},
{
"end_time": 8670.196,
"index": 380,
"start_time": 8643.592,
"text": " And it got out of hand. Copies were made, passed around. Edgar Mitchell gets a copy. He was connected to that group as well. Again, that's a hypothetical. I'm not placing the accusation, but rather all of these are plausible scenarios. And the argument to tell me that there's a secret government program that can authenticate crashed alien spacecraft, that's great. But you can't tell me that these notes prove that."
},
{
"end_time": 8697.329,
"index": 381,
"start_time": 8670.674,
"text": " Right? It could be 80% verifiable facts, but that does not tell me that crashed alien spacecraft is here or are here and the government has them and is hiding it from you. We've got to do better than that. So can Congress, I guess, pull those guys under oath and see what happens. But when people, and I hate to speak in generality, I just hate to like"
},
{
"end_time": 8718.899,
"index": 382,
"start_time": 8697.756,
"text": " say this person or that person. So again, this is part of the more bigger conversation. You see this a lot in various articles, even published in mainstream articles where if Wilson says no and denies it, he's a liar. He has a security oath. He has to do that."
},
{
"end_time": 8732.961,
"index": 383,
"start_time": 8719.565,
"text": " If a military officer decorated comes out and says something that they want to believe, however, they saw a UFO. It was a tic tac shaped object that was going speeds that they had never seen before."
},
{
"end_time": 8759.599,
"index": 384,
"start_time": 8733.439,
"text": " That's automatically gospel because they're the military. How dare you go against the military and deny what they say? And that to me is such the hypocritical mindset of some of these debates that if a military person says something and you label them a liar, what's the difference between that and somebody coming out from the military and telling you something you want to believe? And yes, a lot of those authors will do that hypocritical stance."
},
{
"end_time": 8782.978,
"index": 385,
"start_time": 8759.599,
"text": " And that's what's frustrating. We can't just rely on military background as a carte blanche acceptance of whatever they say. In the same respect, we can't just, well, they have a security clearance, we have to believe that they're lying. Or the note said he would lie, so ergo, he's lying. Those are all silly mindsets to be in. I mean, if we are going to start saying,"
},
{
"end_time": 8812.927,
"index": 386,
"start_time": 8782.978,
"text": " What is the Baghdad Phantom?"
},
{
"end_time": 8828.404,
"index": 387,
"start_time": 8814.343,
"text": " So, Baghdad Phantom was one of the videos Jeremy Corbell has leaked out. I am not a fan of leaks. Anybody who follows the Black Vault, I like to get things legitimately. I'm not a fan of leaks. Mostly because 99% of the time they don't pan out."
},
{
"end_time": 8854.07,
"index": 388,
"start_time": 8828.763,
"text": " What has intrigued me about Jeremy is that his leaks have panned out. His videos do get comments that I've received from the Pentagon. We'll get a comment for the most part of them being utilized by the UAP task force. The Baghdad Phantom was a little bit different, but I pay attention to Jeremy Corbell. I don't agree with his stance on everything, but pay attention to him because he obviously has connections. He's obviously bringing stuff out."
},
{
"end_time": 8881.015,
"index": 389,
"start_time": 8854.684,
"text": " The Baghdad Phantom was one that was recent. I was surprised it didn't get more media attention. It really didn't get a lot at all and is a, what we think, what we're told, a UAP, an unknown object streaking across a video. I think this particular one was taken by an MQ-9 Reaper drone. We keep hearing about the MQ-9s a lot and was over a war zone. So that being said,"
},
{
"end_time": 8907.449,
"index": 390,
"start_time": 8881.732,
"text": " With it being a leak, we don't have more than that. We're told it's a UAP, but we don't have more than that. At the recent UAP hearing, something interesting happened where another Warzone footage video was shown, where it had a ghost-like image trailing behind it. It's the only best way to explain it. And I had noted that from the Baghdad Phantom, but some people thought it was an exhaust."
},
{
"end_time": 8933.012,
"index": 391,
"start_time": 8907.858,
"text": " and what i did was posted on twitter and i can send this to you is that when you look at the object which was a make sure i get the camera angle right more of a cylindrical object you had essentially the exact same uh... length images behind it in repeat it's like a ghost image pardon the pun with phantom but it was like a ghost image of the image not an exhaust plume and and"
},
{
"end_time": 8953.319,
"index": 392,
"start_time": 8933.268,
"text": " oddly that came up in the UAP hearing that they were talking about that being an artifact on the video that again not the Baghdad phantom but something very similar was having these ghost-like images trailing behind whatever the UFO was in the case of the hearing they claimed it was a commercial aircraft"
},
{
"end_time": 8980.794,
"index": 393,
"start_time": 8953.729,
"text": " that that particular one they were able to solve. They showed one other one that also oddly resembled a Jeremy Corbell leak. That was the Mosul Orb, I think is what Jeremy called it. Not the same video, but similar object. So did the Pentagon plan that or is it just a commonality between all their cases that they're primarily seeing these long cylindrical type objects on the"
},
{
"end_time": 8995.913,
"index": 394,
"start_time": 8980.794,
"text": " Jeremy Corbell's leaks."
},
{
"end_time": 9017.039,
"index": 395,
"start_time": 8995.913,
"text": " What they are, not really sure. Because with leaks, it's hard to verify anything beyond what we're told. We don't know who the source is. We don't know where it exactly came from. We don't know what the government considers it. Not that the government couldn't or wouldn't lie to you, but in essence, there's nothing to go by. So it's a little challenging to figure it out. I did file a FOIA request though to"
},
{
"end_time": 9043.626,
"index": 396,
"start_time": 9017.944,
"text": " dig in a little bit deeper. I do have reason to believe that there are more objects from the same time frame in the same region. So I have filed FOIA requests on that as well. We'll see if they come up. But interestingly, I think the one that the government showed was within the same 60-day mark in the Middle East that something was going on over there. I don't know what it was, but"
},
{
"end_time": 9064.872,
"index": 397,
"start_time": 9043.626,
"text": " What about the Ukrainian UAPs?"
},
{
"end_time": 9089.002,
"index": 398,
"start_time": 9065.794,
"text": " I will be the first to admit I'm not a scientist. So a lot of times when you start getting into science, math and calculations and stuff like that, it's going to be over my head. I'm fully aware of my limitations when it comes to that. So I didn't dig in in that regard. But to me, I don't think it was as impressive as some of the media made it out to be or some of the people wanted it to be in the general."
},
{
"end_time": 9116.169,
"index": 399,
"start_time": 9089.002,
"text": " you're talking about a war zone you're talking about something that there's gonna be so much in the sky so for that when you're saying there's too much noise it could be may not be let's move on we have others that are exactly what about that triangle shaped video that Jeremy had put out quite some time goes green I don't know if that has a name the pyramid yeah where he alleged they were pyramid shaped UFOs I think Mick West and then full credit to him"
},
{
"end_time": 9143.285,
"index": 400,
"start_time": 9116.766,
"text": " Put up an excellent argument that those were, I think the correct pronunciation is Bokeh, Bokeh, but essentially that is the shape of the iris of the camera and that they are not pyramid but rather everything in that sky has a pyramid shape and somebody involved in his Metabunk discussion forum did a replication of it with a very similar or exact"
},
{
"end_time": 9152.483,
"index": 401,
"start_time": 9143.592,
"text": " Night vision scope with the same type of triangular Iris in there and came up with the same result to me. It's identical so"
},
{
"end_time": 9183.114,
"index": 402,
"start_time": 9153.114,
"text": " In my book, you could put it to bed. It's my understanding that there were other people there who saw with their eyes something triangular as well. So then how does that change the claims of McWest about it being an artifact? Or does it just not factor in you say, well, well, I think I'm channeling my own inner McWest here and saying, OK, show us that data. I think that when somebody gives you a story and they say this is a video of it and then you debunk that video and they go, well, that's not necessarily the video, but I've got testimony."
},
{
"end_time": 9212.705,
"index": 403,
"start_time": 9183.114,
"text": " Well, it's like, well, wait a minute. Didn't you just argue that these were the pyramids? However, I think Jeremy Corbell still stands by, the last I'm aware of, still stands by that that video represents pyramid-shaped objects. So he's not even accepting the alternative explanation for the video and then falling back on testimony. He's doubling down on the video itself. And I mean, I guess if that works for him, I just think that when it comes to the evidence that we can look at,"
},
{
"end_time": 9239.787,
"index": 404,
"start_time": 9213.217,
"text": " that can be dismissed, in my opinion. I think that it's replicable, plain and simple. So I think that that puts the video to bed. If somebody else has a story, great, we can hear it and go from there, but I just think too much is working against that one. We'll move on then. Does the government still investigate psi phenomenon, psi tech, remote viewing,"
},
{
"end_time": 9261.561,
"index": 405,
"start_time": 9241.476,
"text": " They claim no, and I haven't had any documentation of it, but you look at what they've been doing through the last however many decades, it won't surprise me if when I'm 70 that in 2022, 2023, and 2024 they had some"
},
{
"end_time": 9290.776,
"index": 406,
"start_time": 9261.869,
"text": " Citech research program and that's what makes it very challenging with researching some of this stuff because they really can deny things for decades and and then you find out later on they go oopsies you know we didn't tell you guys but your grandparents were right you know and so I don't see any evidence of it but it doesn't surprise me especially this this day and age they're all looking for a heads up on on their intelligence capabilities versus their enemy"
},
{
"end_time": 9293.319,
"index": 407,
"start_time": 9291.34,
"text": " What have you uncovered about the Phoenix lights?"
},
{
"end_time": 9323.507,
"index": 408,
"start_time": 9294.701,
"text": " So my connection with the Phoenix Lights goes back to 1997 when the government actually came out with their original explanation of flares that were launched that night and so on. I filed a request to Luke Air Force Base because with the FOIA, very quick note, you kind of look for back channel ways to verify claims. So you can't just say, you know, give me all documents you have of aircraft flares that were misinterpreted as"
},
{
"end_time": 9338.933,
"index": 409,
"start_time": 9323.507,
"text": " You gotta find other ways to look for it. And so what I was going for were tower logs and any flights that were in the air that could be attributed to the dropping of the aircraft flares that would be connected to the Phoenix lights."
},
{
"end_time": 9358.882,
"index": 410,
"start_time": 9338.933,
"text": " What I found out in writing was Luke Air Force Base said that they were they kind of put two and two together on what I was going for. They said even though it was said that aircraft flares from aircraft launch from Luke Air Force Base were to blame, Luke Air Force Base did not have any planes in the air, nor did they drop."
},
{
"end_time": 9386.049,
"index": 411,
"start_time": 9358.882,
"text": " any aircraft flares. Lynn Kitai, Dr. Lynn Kitai, she did the documentary on the Phoenix Lights. She, I know, was citing that letter a lot because that was black and white proof that the Pentagon said one thing, but the actual evidence said something else. And it was like the Pentagon said, okay, like we got a problem here in Phoenix. Let's figure out an explanation. Somebody came up with flares. They said, okay, great. Put that out into the into the ether."
},
{
"end_time": 9415.913,
"index": 412,
"start_time": 9386.647,
"text": " Yet nobody called Luke Air Force Base and said, hey, by the way, if anybody asks or anything, this is our story. Luke Air Force Base was quite the contrary, like, hey, we didn't do anything that night. Later, it changed that it was some classified mission or something with the National Guard. But this is another one of those examples that what you are told just kind of keeps shifting after you disprove the story than another tidbit"
},
{
"end_time": 9441.067,
"index": 413,
"start_time": 9415.913,
"text": " So is that true? I mean, maybe, but again, whenever it comes to these UFO types of stories, usually if you push hard enough, you realize that that original explanation just doesn't make sense. And then they'll change the story to help kind of draw it out a few more years until the point no one cares."
},
{
"end_time": 9465.879,
"index": 414,
"start_time": 9442.005,
"text": " If there was one case that you could get the truth on, you feel like this is where there would be the most uncovered. Which one would it be? This is a little selfish. This is the case, the four page government document that got me interested. I've always had a connection, an emotional connection to it because that launched me on my journey. But it was a 1976 Iran case."
},
{
"end_time": 9485.572,
"index": 415,
"start_time": 9466.357,
"text": " Where according, I go by the documentation, because one of the pilots ended up coming out and kind of contradicted the documents a little bit. His story was a little bit more, I don't want to say exaggerated, but just more in depth. And so I think it was a little bit harder to prove his story, but per the documentation,"
},
{
"end_time": 9510.845,
"index": 416,
"start_time": 9486.22,
"text": " There were multiple UFOs that were seen, and I'll just quickly summarize it, but main object, call it, I hate to use the word mothership, but that's the only way to describe it, that was seen over Tehran. There were multiple UFOs coming out of the sides and underneath it. It showed intelligent control per the documentation where originally one of the pilots thought it was an incoming missile."
},
{
"end_time": 9537.91,
"index": 417,
"start_time": 9511.357,
"text": " and it goes to fire back at the object, but all of his instrumentation and all of his control panels shut down. The incoming object then made a dip and looped around his aircraft. It was a F-4 Phantom Jet that he was flying. So whatever this unknown object was dipped, went around his aircraft, rejoined the original UFO, whatever that was. Another one landed or hovered right above Earth."
},
{
"end_time": 9542.125,
"index": 418,
"start_time": 9538.2,
"text": " as the documentation goes."
},
{
"end_time": 9572.927,
"index": 419,
"start_time": 9543.763,
"text": " event that happened after meaning like what happened after this thing went to the ground it just kind of skips that part and then the pilot regained all controls the next morning they go out and investigate the area there was some local residents they saw a bunch of flashing lights coming through their windows they were terrified they didn't want to look out they have no idea they said that they were collecting soil samples and that results would be forwarded when available"
},
{
"end_time": 9594.821,
"index": 420,
"start_time": 9572.927,
"text": " Why I think that's a fascinating case is just how it unfolded. It was 76. There's still no adequate explanation for it. It was shown to shut down strategically two F-4 Phantom jets. I mentioned one, but there were actually two that were scrambled to go intercept this thing. What happened after the object either landed or hovered above the ground?"
},
{
"end_time": 9623.268,
"index": 421,
"start_time": 9594.821,
"text": " And then on top of that what happened to the soil samples, that is not found anywhere. I've searched high and low and everywhere for additional documentation. There's nothing. So that's what set me off on my journey to create the Black Vault and have this information online for free because I believed in people having access to it. And it was that one case that really taught me not only the FOIA, but the importance of having this information."
},
{
"end_time": 9643.951,
"index": 422,
"start_time": 9623.268,
"text": " And I think that if I had to pick one, it would be that. One of the others is I'm intrigued by the UFO material that was shown in the CIA in 1975, I believe it was. I've got the documentation on that. Again, heavily redacted, but whatever it was."
},
{
"end_time": 9664.343,
"index": 423,
"start_time": 9645.009,
"text": " It was connected to a UFO, did not have an explanation and what the scientist at the CIA had recommended was all redacted and they lost that document. So we'll never know what it was but it's clear that there's physical material from something unknown of unknown origin within the CIA or at least there was at one time."
},
{
"end_time": 9689.087,
"index": 424,
"start_time": 9665.094,
"text": " So what does your research show about the Rendlesham Forest case, if I'm pronouncing that correctly? Yeah, to be honest with you, I've never really done a whole lot on that particular case, I hate to say. I'm familiar with the story a little bit. I never dove into it. We did a television series on it that went into syndication, but beyond that, I hate to say, I just don't have much to add to it. How about the Virginia case?"
},
{
"end_time": 9717.79,
"index": 425,
"start_time": 9690.196,
"text": " That's obviously going to be a James Fox question who did the recent documentary. I'm intrigued by it. I used to host a radio program with a Dr. Roger Lear. He passed away, sadly, quite a few years ago, but at that time when he and I were doing the radio show together, he had come out with one of the original books on it. Him and AJ Gavard, I think, worked together on the case. I've always been intrigued by it, but it's one of those cases in UFO history"
},
{
"end_time": 9738.507,
"index": 426,
"start_time": 9718.217,
"text": " that at this point, there's a lot of big claims, but there was nothing at that time anyway to put in front of anybody and say, hey, look, we really believe that we have some type of alien connection here. But that was quite a few years ago. I have not seen James Fox's newest. I'm looking forward to it, but"
},
{
"end_time": 9767.517,
"index": 427,
"start_time": 9738.507,
"text": " You know, that's another one of those cases that I think sounds great, and I'm looking forward to seeing what's there, but up until at least a couple months ago before his documentary came out, I just didn't see anything that was the hardcore proof that everybody's looking for. I don't like to ask a question like this because I'm not a fan of just asking people to comment on people. Those are my favorite questions. Sure, this was a question that was upvoted plenty. What are your thoughts on Jacques Vallee?"
},
{
"end_time": 9798.251,
"index": 428,
"start_time": 9769.428,
"text": " You know what? I met Dr. Valet only once. I've very rarely talked to him. So I'm not going to have any type of, you know, opinion in that way because I have no experience with him. I think I just shook hands with him once and that was it. I don't think we had a conversation. So I've been very lucky in that regard. I've met a lot of people at these conferences, but he's one that I've never, never went beyond that with. Nothing I can really say good or bad. I just, I'm familiar with his reputation. What do you make of the Salvatore Pius Petens?"
},
{
"end_time": 9831.357,
"index": 429,
"start_time": 9801.476,
"text": " To repeat my not being a scientist, they're going to be over my head. I'm intrigued by them, but the fact that there's patents available, I think that it's probably a brilliant mind creating something that he's patenting, but I think people really read into what that was. At least that was my broad stroke view of it where I'm not going to understand the schematics of what he has in those patents."
},
{
"end_time": 9848.319,
"index": 430,
"start_time": 9831.578,
"text": " But I think that the internet being what it is kind of made it take a life of its own that the Navy was doing, you know, these exotic and extraordinary craft and stuff like that to where people like that they they have these designs. I mean, the patent office is full of them and"
},
{
"end_time": 9876.903,
"index": 431,
"start_time": 9848.319,
"text": " You know, he's just one of many that have done it. So I think the story got a little bit overblown a little bit. But I mean, I'm intrigued. If some of that technology ever comes to fruition, I'm obviously going to be all eyes to see it. You know how you mentioned you have about three and a half million pages that are online? I presume you haven't had a chance to go through each of those pages because... That's a lot. Yeah, that's almost 500 a day. So how do you make heads and tails of it?"
},
{
"end_time": 9897.227,
"index": 432,
"start_time": 9877.381,
"text": " Yeah, so a lot of documents I get that are sometimes more historical, historical records, 300, 400 pages. Unless I'm really interested in reading that book, sometimes I just will scan it, put it online, or if I get it digital, you know, put it online. So no, I would not pretend to say I've read all three"
},
{
"end_time": 9925.503,
"index": 433,
"start_time": 9897.227,
"text": " Yeah, and soon you'll be able to use a large language model to crawl through it."
},
{
"end_time": 9945.52,
"index": 434,
"start_time": 9926.715,
"text": " Yeah, OCR has to get a little bit better for that. I'm really excited about the implications behind it, but some of these older documents that are decades old and old typewriters, OCR has to be incredibly strong to decipher all of that text for a machine to essentially make sense of it."
},
{
"end_time": 9964.548,
"index": 435,
"start_time": 9945.52,
"text": " Alright we have something super large to announce and I want to take you through the whole thought process. So firstly let's talk about how is it that I came up with 500 because many people are interested in these napkin calculations. So John said that hey there's 3.5 million pages so I just rounded up to 3.65 million pages. Why? So that I can divide it cleanly by"
},
{
"end_time": 9985.367,
"index": 436,
"start_time": 9964.548,
"text": " the amount of days in a year 365 divide that that's 10 000 now he said that he's been doing this for 27 years or so or 26 maybe even 25 so what i did is just reduce that to 20 and then divide that so that's approximately 500 there's a whole video on just doing physics calculations and how you can calculate the size of a black hole for instance from just a napkin calculation"
},
{
"end_time": 10006.527,
"index": 437,
"start_time": 9985.367,
"text": " We also talk about why the wave function is not a function, how to approximate the length of an atom, how to calculate the pressure in a neutron star. Alright, now onto the announcement. A machine learning website which was inspired by John saying that he has a multitude of FOIA documents that aren't indexed. I wanted to create an app that actually uses the latest AI to crawl through his documents, but there were problems."
},
{
"end_time": 10029.735,
"index": 438,
"start_time": 10006.527,
"text": " John said that there were millions of pages. I remember thinking, there's no way, John, they can be million. No, there are millions of pages and they're extremely large. They're strewn across several servers and hard drives. Remember that this is 26, 27 years of John's life. Keep that in mind. All that I'm doing is that I'm coming in and saying, hey, John, your documents, you've gathered them for decades. Some are searchable and some aren't. You had so much intensity and"
},
{
"end_time": 10050.162,
"index": 439,
"start_time": 10029.735,
"text": " If you have any examples, if there's anything that you could send over that you've seen on my site,"
},
{
"end_time": 10062.637,
"index": 440,
"start_time": 10050.64,
"text": " that you feel is kind of representative of what you feel would be used in such a model. I would love to help. I just am not 100% sure if"
},
{
"end_time": 10081.698,
"index": 441,
"start_time": 10063.012,
"text": " Those documents would be worthwhile to you. So anyway, I'll stop blabbing, but hopefully that gives a little bit better of an impression. I'm around tomorrow. If you want to chat, I'm driving right now. If you can't tell, I'm going to pick up my son and then heading over to my daughter's school for a dance recital. So daddy duties kind of kicking in."
},
{
"end_time": 10107.193,
"index": 442,
"start_time": 10081.698,
"text": " So anyway, I look forward to hearing from you and I'll hopefully talk to you soon. All right. Now at this point of the conversation with John, I said, hey, I'd love for there to be an integration of a large language model with your PDF. Why doesn't this exist? Then I thought like, hey, I have some coding skills. They're not terribly efficient, but why not try and create this myself? So then what happened was I ran into certain hurdles. Like I was watching videos on here's how to chat with your documents."
},
{
"end_time": 10134.821,
"index": 443,
"start_time": 10107.193,
"text": " and I thought that this would be what I need but it's more like here's how to train a large language model to mimic the style and some of the knowledge but not precisely of the documents and I wanted it to be factual I wanted it to cite specific PDFs if you ask it a question a question like what types of medals did the US government find at crash sites I wanted to bring up well here document number three says this and here's a PDF that talks about this and it shows the excerpts"
},
{
"end_time": 10147.261,
"index": 444,
"start_time": 10134.821,
"text": " Nice to meet you."
},
{
"end_time": 10172.039,
"index": 445,
"start_time": 10147.637,
"text": " Nice to meet you as well, thank you for taking this call, I appreciate it. I've been looking for a service where I can give it a set of PDFs. I would like to be able to, with natural language, have people query it. Well, for instance, if you say, can you find an inconsistency in the document about the weight of a box? Then it'll say, yes, I found that on document 2 it says the weight is 30 pounds, but on document 40 it says the weight is 80 pounds."
},
{
"end_time": 10194.206,
"index": 446,
"start_time": 10172.039,
"text": " He seemed to be going through with this but then turns out that this project was a bit more intricate than what he was developing so we had to not go through with that and I'm thinking okay"
},
{
"end_time": 10217.978,
"index": 447,
"start_time": 10194.206,
"text": " Come on, I want to release this episode for you all. I want to come out with this tool. This will be fantastic. If when this podcast premieres with John, there's this tool that the community that people are interested in UAPs can actually use. So I was dismayed. And then I remembered, Hey, I went to this conference in Florida, this mindfest conference where there were several extremely competent people who are experts in machine learning."
},
{
"end_time": 10241.203,
"index": 448,
"start_time": 10217.978,
"text": " And in fact, there was one that stood out among the rest and we became friends. His name is Dan Van Zandt. It's a fantastic name, Daniel Van Zandt. And he has this company called Cephalopod AI Solutions. So I contacted Dan and I told him my frankly insulting budget, which is essentially nothing. But then he decided, he's like, you know what, Kurt, I'll work with you because I believe in this project. And he also has some familiarity with FOIA requests himself."
},
{
"end_time": 10267.654,
"index": 449,
"start_time": 10241.203,
"text": " which we'll talk about. From what I understand from you, the MVP is just a person can put in a text query in a chat GPT style way, get a chat GPT style answer, text files that are linked to the PDF. So that won't be a huge issue. I'm curious how these files are named. We're going to need to have the total data size and the approximate amount of pages we have. I don't think there's been too many people that are"
},
{
"end_time": 10289.138,
"index": 450,
"start_time": 10267.654,
"text": " more altruistically motivated like you who are making FOIA requests. Yeah, I'll think about it. One feature that you have mentioned that would be fairly easy to implement is the trends. Are these documents dated at all? How many queries do you think this is going to be getting, say in like the first two months or something? And then how many do you think it's going to have in one day at its height?"
},
{
"end_time": 10309.172,
"index": 451,
"start_time": 10289.531,
"text": " That's important for load balancing. It's at this point that I asked Daniel about his experience with FOIA requests. I'm decently familiar with FOIA requests because my lab actually makes them quite frequently. It's amazing the things that we'll think of as we're kind of on the cutting edge of AI and we'll find out, oh, the military did this 20 years ago and they just haven't told anyone about it."
},
{
"end_time": 10334.633,
"index": 452,
"start_time": 10309.172,
"text": " until now. They were using microfluidic computers for weapon systems and based on what they can target. So like these large guns on battleships and things like that. And to us and to the field, this was like a brand new undeveloped idea. Some people had done something with it at some point, but the military just casually came back at us and basically told us, yeah, we've been working with this for 20 or 30 years. And we've been working with it enough that"
},
{
"end_time": 10364.241,
"index": 453,
"start_time": 10334.633,
"text": " And by the way, there are timestamps in all these videos you can always skip to sections that you like. I think it'll be extremely fruitful to understand the process and the mindset that went into creating this tool that you're about to see so that you can understand the context and see where it may lead to. Another hurdle was that we had to take these PDFs or Dan had to and then convert them to text TXT files and yet to create certain efficient prompts for that because they're scanned documents so it's large and in size and it's difficult to read as well for people, let alone a computer."
},
{
"end_time": 10387.483,
"index": 454,
"start_time": 10364.241,
"text": " so we contacted some people who had or claimed to have ready-made solutions IBM was one of them we contacted them had several meetings with IBM with some of their tools and I thought that they would have a free version of their tool or just a couple hundred USD like 500 USD after meeting with them so many back and forth they said hey for the minimum amount it's 5000 USD and I was just like"
},
{
"end_time": 10401.305,
"index": 455,
"start_time": 10387.483,
"text": " so so disappointed like oh my gosh man why is this so difficult and that's just the first stage five thousand dollars for this we contacted another developer working with them closely and then they said okay here's the cost"
},
{
"end_time": 10430.52,
"index": 456,
"start_time": 10401.664,
"text": " It's one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. I'm not even kidding you. One hundred and eighty thousand dollars for a year of this service, which is actually a great service, a fantastic one. It's almost exactly what we're looking for, except far out of our budget, far out of our budget. I would say functionality wise, it's about done. What I've been doing today is I've been doing some load balancing and some other things like that. Really boring infrastructure type things, but they still take a decent amount of work."
},
{
"end_time": 10435.572,
"index": 457,
"start_time": 10430.964,
"text": " to make sure that it can handle about 4,000 requests per day."
},
{
"end_time": 10465.162,
"index": 458,
"start_time": 10436.015,
"text": " It's not huge, but that's a pretty substantial amount. It should be pretty much ready to go as long as you think the UI looks good. When you see YouTube videos on here's how to do something with the LLM, most of the time they're overhyped and they're for specific use cases and you have to use many different programs and many of them have interoperability issues. Anyway, what we've done is we've scaled back the project scope significantly. So rather than it being all of John's work, we've made it a percentage of a percentage and we've done so by crawling and focusing specifically on the UFO aspect."
},
{
"end_time": 10491.852,
"index": 459,
"start_time": 10465.162,
"text": " because many of his FOIA requests don't pertain to that. Now, without further ado, here is the tool. Hello there. My name is Daniel Van Zandt. I am the owner of Cephalopod AI Solutions and I am so excited to present this new tool in collaboration with John Greenwald of The Black Vault and Kurt Jemungle of Theories of Everything. And so John Greenwald"
},
{
"end_time": 10519.923,
"index": 460,
"start_time": 10492.398,
"text": " has spent years collecting this really awesome resource of Freedom of Information Act requested documents. And Kurt had this idea and came to me about implementing it on what if we made this an AI database? What if we harness this new power of LLMs like ChatDBT to be able to talk to the database, get answers, and almost compose a mini research report for the user?"
},
{
"end_time": 10550.094,
"index": 461,
"start_time": 10520.418,
"text": " As opposed to the user having to search through each PDF themselves and slog through it and make it harder to see patterns. And so I will jump right into things here and just show you how it works. So I can ask it any question. I think that I'll ask it a question about UFOs. I'm going to ask it, what are the main types of UFO sightings?"
},
{
"end_time": 10577.261,
"index": 462,
"start_time": 10552.466,
"text": " And so it takes a little bit, but what it's going to do is it's going to go to that database and it's going to dynamically find parts of those PDFs in the database that could answer this question. PDFs don't have to have exact keywords. They just have to be related somehow. And so it's already come up with an answer."
},
{
"end_time": 10602.244,
"index": 463,
"start_time": 10577.978,
"text": " And it says there are various types of UFO sightings. The most common are of course astronomical sightings. It's got close range sightings on the ground are most intriguing. Most UFO sightings can be attributed to the misidentification of known objects and phenomena. So you're going to notice that it says snippet 12, snippet 6, snippet 2, snippet 3."
},
{
"end_time": 10625.623,
"index": 464,
"start_time": 10602.773,
"text": " These are references to these and so you can see a shortened version of all of these snippets down here And if you click on them, so it's signed as snippet 6 on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. That sounds kind of interesting I'm going to go down and I'm going to click on snippet 6 and it's going to show me the full context that it dynamically chose to feed into the LLM"
},
{
"end_time": 10650.913,
"index": 465,
"start_time": 10626.664,
"text": " And so here it is. It's somewhat ugly because we OCR'd a bunch of PDFs and they're just not a way to do that well without getting some ugly text, especially when the PDF stands, but it's still very much readable. I can see what it says. Kishu Suits."
},
{
"end_time": 10680.623,
"index": 466,
"start_time": 10652.346,
"text": " stars bright celestial objects are main culprits and UFO sightings they fool many advanced observers even pilots oh that's interesting and so i'm going to look at this and i'm going to see that it mentions airmen and mentions pilots uh and i'm going to ask it have there been any extraterrestrial"
},
{
"end_time": 10707.398,
"index": 467,
"start_time": 10682.108,
"text": " sightings from the air force uh because that seems quite interesting to me and so you can see i was able to ask a question i was able to get a summary i was able to go down to the snippet i was interested in and then i was able to use that to generate another question and this has been one of my favorite things to do even as i've just been developing this is"
},
{
"end_time": 10735.179,
"index": 468,
"start_time": 10707.961,
"text": " Getting into it and getting deeper and deeper into the questions. I don't know if you've ever gotten lost on Wikipedia or you've ever gotten lost Googling and learning about something, but it's a similar type of feeling. And so it popped up with something. According to Snippet 1, the Air Force has investigated over 10,000 reports of UFOs in the United States, which found no evidence that they represent extraterrestrial vehicles. Snippet 2 mentions Major Donald Kehoe."
},
{
"end_time": 10760.128,
"index": 469,
"start_time": 10736.374,
"text": " He believes that the Air Force is withholding information about extraterrestrial sightings. That's kind of interesting. And so I'm going to look at what this says. So he thinks that the Air Force was withholding information for fear of causing a public panic. That sounds kind of interesting."
},
{
"end_time": 10785.077,
"index": 470,
"start_time": 10761.749,
"text": " And then Snippet 6 suggests that the Pentagon has been involved in UFO research and may release documents related to the subject. Snippet 9 describes witnesses. I'm interested if there's more than one document on this Major Donald Geho and if there is one document I would still like it summarized for me instead of having to read through this sort of dense government paperwork."
},
{
"end_time": 10816.408,
"index": 471,
"start_time": 10787.039,
"text": " So I'm going to ask it to tell me about Major Donald Kehoe and see what pops up. And so again, takes a few seconds, not too long, but such is the nature of this being sort of a cutting edge thing. All right. Oh, I got quite a few snippets on Major Donald Kehoe. This is sort of interesting. Major Donald Kehoe was the director of NICAP, the world's largest UFO research organization."
},
{
"end_time": 10846.186,
"index": 472,
"start_time": 10817.159,
"text": " with over 30 subcommittees in the US and abroad. He wrote the book, Aliens from Space. Kehoe believed that the Air Force was suppressing information. He talked to Senator Barry Goldwater. So there's all these interesting things and I can look at these sources and I could dive deeper and deeper and learn more and more things all day and learn it so much quicker and easier than sort of looking through dense government paperwork."
},
{
"end_time": 10874.889,
"index": 473,
"start_time": 10847.244,
"text": " And so we're able to, I know I watched some of John Greenwald's videos and he always talks about collecting the different stuff that we're able to access publicly from the government, the FOIA request and collecting it into important information and sort of reading between the lines and seeing the patterns emerge. And in my opinion, this is such a perfect tool to do exactly that."
},
{
"end_time": 10903.763,
"index": 474,
"start_time": 10876.067,
"text": " So I'm excited to see people play with it. I'm excited to see what they find. And I can't wait to see what kind of questions people ask and what kind of things people learn. So you can go to this website, the black toe vault dot com. Remember, John's website is the black vault. So I just made a pun and maybe this website will change. But regardless, it's also in the description. The black toe vault to vault dot com. This is a tool that will be upgraded over time."
},
{
"end_time": 10923.951,
"index": 475,
"start_time": 10903.763,
"text": " Over time we'll put in more features and there's even a feature request like what are your use cases? What do you think this tool could possibly do in the future? What would you like to see? Here's what I'd like it to include in the let's say the next year or so. I'd like to implement let's say GPT-5 so that you can ask it context aware queries like what are the documents related to sightings of triangular UFOs over military bases in the 1970s?"
},
{
"end_time": 10944.07,
"index": 476,
"start_time": 10924.343,
"text": " Show me the case that had the largest number of civilian eyewitnesses."
},
{
"end_time": 10962.654,
"index": 477,
"start_time": 10944.07,
"text": " I'd like it to infer certain context from redacted statements. I'd like it to have the automatic crawling and indexing of new PDFs uploaded. So that is if you have a FOIA request or some other government documents you'd like to submit it, then it can easily ingest those and it doesn't have to go through a whole re-ingesting of all of the PDFs. It can just"
},
{
"end_time": 10979.002,
"index": 478,
"start_time": 10962.654,
"text": " I'd like to implement a time-based query system to analyze changes in the government's positions on certain topics over a specific period. I'd also like to have a site map where we implement a global map of locations of UFO sightings and the released files, a time series analysis"
},
{
"end_time": 10994.138,
"index": 479,
"start_time": 10979.002,
"text": " So you can see the, again, frequency of UFO sightings over a certain time and perhaps even scroll through it. UFO type classifier, that's interesting. So classify the different types of, let the model, the large language model classify the different types of UFOs based in the descriptions of the"
},
{
"end_time": 11020.435,
"index": 480,
"start_time": 10994.138,
"text": " A proximity search, so use the AI to help find UFO cases that happen near to each other and so propinquity in space and time. I'd like to have case comparisons so you can side by side compare different UFO cases. Eyewitness accounts aggregators collate the eyewitness accounts related to specific sightings. An AI hypothesis aggregator based on the context and the content of documents, the AI could suggest possible explanations. Sentiment analysis and of all of them this one seems like"
},
{
"end_time": 11034.821,
"index": 481,
"start_time": 11020.435,
"text": " the most easily done so you can analyze the sentiment toward UFOs within the government documents predictive analysis now that one's interesting implement a feature using whatever is the most cutting-edge tool to predict trends and patterns and UFO sightings based on historical data"
},
{
"end_time": 11065.674,
"index": 482,
"start_time": 11035.708,
"text": " Now, all of these features, every single thing above all needs to be above board and legal. And also, I'd like a developer to come on and just take this over and make this open source. This way it can be maintained by the community and transparent. I'm already extremely packed to the brim studying for Toe episodes for the Theories of Everything podcast. So if there's someone who wants to come on and help out with this, then please let me know. Anyway, you can enjoy the website right now. It's the blacktoevault.com. And maybe this URL changes because remember, this is all John's work."
},
{
"end_time": 11080.776,
"index": 483,
"start_time": 11065.674,
"text": " just a bit of salt on his decades long sous vide steak that's just fall off the bone and and so toe is just like a hair pinky nail atop the giant shoulders of john the giant body of john and"
},
{
"end_time": 11099.667,
"index": 484,
"start_time": 11080.776,
"text": " The Black Toe Vault.com"
},
{
"end_time": 11121.032,
"index": 485,
"start_time": 11099.667,
"text": " Actually come to the full fruition of the vision of it, then definitely contact me and let me know. The contact information is on the website. You can also email toe at indiefilmto.com Also, don't forget this is John's work. If you want to donate to John, which you should, the button is on the website as well. And it's also in this description. Remember, this is John's work."
},
{
"end_time": 11154.548,
"index": 486,
"start_time": 11125.06,
"text": " The most profound technologies are those that disappear. They weave themselves into the fabric of everyday life until they're indistinguishable from it. Why do you think that Black Hawk helicopters intimidate the people who are at the Skinwalker Ranch, seemingly intentionally? Okay, so Skinwalker is going to be tough for me, simply because I worked in television a lot, and I am not going to say any of those scenes were fabricated."
},
{
"end_time": 11172.398,
"index": 487,
"start_time": 11154.957,
"text": " But what I can say from, and you're referring to, just to make sure I'm clear prior to answering, you're referring to what's been coming out on the show, right? Also, Brandon's personal testimonial, and I'm unsure if all of what he's saying has been documented on the television show. And when I say Brandon, I mean Brandon Fugel for people who are wondering."
},
{
"end_time": 11202.5,
"index": 488,
"start_time": 11173.285,
"text": " Yeah, so then I'll make it quick with the television reference, because I think a lot of people do base the Blackhawks coming in from the television series. And to be honest with you, I have no idea if it's actually happening the way that the television show is conveying it. And I speak from experience with that just because I saw it so many times and I hated it. It's one of the reasons why I don't work in nonfiction programming anymore, simply because"
},
{
"end_time": 11225.35,
"index": 489,
"start_time": 11202.995,
"text": " There was a lot of fictionalized elements to non-fiction that I just hated. So when I see television shows like Skinwalker Ranch, and this is not against Brandon or the production staff, I know both sides of their production, it's not against them, but I don't know if things are embellished. I don't know if it's exactly true. Based on testimony itself, I mean, look, you've got a lot of military installations, truly everywhere,"
},
{
"end_time": 11247.637,
"index": 490,
"start_time": 11225.35,
"text": " But in places like Utah, stuff like that, you're going to have flights. I've had military helicopters come over my area here in a city called Castaic. It's in northern Los Angeles. There's actually not really a military base that close here, but they're around, maybe within 45 minutes driving or so. So they're close enough."
},
{
"end_time": 11258.882,
"index": 491,
"start_time": 11247.637,
"text": " But I've had it. I don't read into it. They have flight paths just like everyone else, especially in those areas like Utah that's gonna have quite a few military installations. So are they buzzing?"
},
{
"end_time": 11283.422,
"index": 492,
"start_time": 11259.053,
"text": " Skinwalker? I mean, I'd like to see a little bit more proof of that. Why would they be doing it? And of course, again, everything has a paper trail. You can't just throw a Blackhawk helicopter over a private ranch in Utah and have it circle for no reason. But on top of that, you can't do it without a paper trail of some kind. You're going to have air traffic control logs, you're going to have where did it come from, you're going to have all that."
},
{
"end_time": 11308.78,
"index": 493,
"start_time": 11283.422,
"text": " So I'm happy to help anybody who has those types of stories, Brandon included, who I actually like a lot. He seems like a really nice gentleman. I've spoken to him quite a few times. That doesn't mean that everything is coming out of Skimwalker's gospel, but I really like Brandon. But people like Brandon that have those types of stories, hey, I'm happy to help them and get those logs and figure out where this information can be"
},
{
"end_time": 11337.381,
"index": 494,
"start_time": 11308.78,
"text": " found and help support those types of stories. And I've done that with past UFO cases. I've got air traffic control recordings from UFO stories. I grabbed one from even the social media Reddit. And I was like, ah, well, let's see what I can find. And sure enough, found the actual recording. Based on that, somebody started feeding me UFO cases that were essentially being bantered about by the FAA. Started going after those too and getting some really cool results."
},
{
"end_time": 11366.903,
"index": 495,
"start_time": 11337.381,
"text": " So, my whole point is that when people have stories, they shouldn't be discounted, but it's harder to base an opinion just on the story. Let's go for evidence, you know? And that's how I try and approach it, especially with those FAA cases. The story standalone wasn't impressive. Add FAA traffic audio to it? Yeah, it became a lot cooler. And that's what I mean by that. And so, yeah, if Blackhawk helicopters are buzzing Skinwalker or anywhere for that matter, let me know. I'm happy to help."
},
{
"end_time": 11378.814,
"index": 496,
"start_time": 11367.363,
"text": " Let's imagine Brandon Fugal is watching this right now, your message is, hey, contact me, I will help you figure out what's going on with regard to the Blackhawks. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And"
},
{
"end_time": 11408.404,
"index": 497,
"start_time": 11380.333,
"text": " Full stop. I mean, I have no problem. I have no, again, I'll use the expression, no skin in the game either way to prove or disprove. If somebody says a Blackhawk was there, cool. It came from somewhere, so let's figure that out and go for tower logs. Prove that the flight was there. There's a lot of public sourced information too that could potentially show flight path and stuff like that. So if he says it's circling, I'm sure we could prove that too. And he's a pilot, so he knows that better than I do. John, what do you want to be remembered for?"
},
{
"end_time": 11434.275,
"index": 498,
"start_time": 11411.852,
"text": " I don't even know if I'll be remembered. I don't even really think about that. That's a tough one. When it comes to my public life, look, I want to be remembered as someone who cared about bringing the truth forward, whatever that is."
},
{
"end_time": 11462.79,
"index": 499,
"start_time": 11435.026,
"text": " It can go any which direction, but I want to be known as that guy that really tried to inform the masses of what that truth is. More than that, a good dad and husband, but attributing it to what our conversation is, going after the truth and uncovering every piece of the puzzle that can be uncovered and giving the pieces to everyone else."
},
{
"end_time": 11479.718,
"index": 500,
"start_time": 11463.49,
"text": " Alright, in two and a half minutes, we're going to talk to John about the Mojave Triangle from Jeremy Corbell. We also talked about Travis Taylor's connections to the government, as well as recently uncovered contradictions between the AOI MSG of the government and the redactions therein."
},
{
"end_time": 11504.497,
"index": 501,
"start_time": 11479.718,
"text": " For now, since people seem to appreciate the summaries of the podcast, particular in the Daniel Schmottenberger episode, I'll summarize again what's been covered so far. We talked, of course, about government secrecy and cover-ups, and how John suggests that the government's smoke screens focus on balloons, and those are being used as distractions from the more significant UAP issue. John, while being a skeptic himself, in many ways, doesn't like what he feels as skeptics who jump to conclusions without all the evidence."
},
{
"end_time": 11525.435,
"index": 502,
"start_time": 11504.497,
"text": " John challenges the authenticity of the Wilson documents. John disputes the Pentagon's explanation for the Phoenix Lights incident, revealing there were no aircraft flares that were deployed by Luke Air Force Base on the night in question. John talks about how his favorite case is the 1979 Iran UFO case, as well as he expresses recent intrigue toward the Virginia case."
},
{
"end_time": 11543.729,
"index": 503,
"start_time": 11525.435,
"text": " You should know about other interviews that pertain to this one. If you like this interview, that is, then you'll enjoy the three interviews that we've done with Lou Elizondo. We've also spoken to George Knapp and Colm Kelleher. Actually, we've spoken to George twice, once on the Tonanza. So that's like this eight hour live stream. George Knapp appeared with Jeremy Corbell there."
},
{
"end_time": 11570.128,
"index": 504,
"start_time": 11543.729,
"text": " As well as there's two episodes with Jeremy Corbell, there's an episode with Kevin Knuth, actually two episodes, if you're interested in the more physics angle when it comes to this topic. There's Gary Nolan, there's Diana Pasolka, there's also Avi Loeb, of course, Les Stroud, Salvatore Pius, for whatever reason. The heartful and earnest Salvatore Pius has appeared exclusively on the Theories of Everything podcast in video form. Sal holds a special place in my heart and you can see that connection as we speak to one another."
},
{
"end_time": 11593.677,
"index": 505,
"start_time": 11570.128,
"text": " There's Richard Dolan and Ross Coulthart, Travis Walton, Tom DeLong, Linda Moulton-Howe, Stephen Greer, Leslie Kane. In fact, you can find all of these just on the playlist for the UFOs. And the link to that will be in the description. You should also know that this podcast is on Spotify and iTunes and virtually every audio platform that's out there. So if you're listening to this on Spotify or iTunes, you should know that there's a YouTube version with the video which has plenty"
},
{
"end_time": 11621.476,
"index": 506,
"start_time": 11593.677,
"text": " of context placed into the video, the actual visuals. And if you're just watching this, then you should know about the audio side. You should also know that there's merch that's available only for the next three weeks. It just opened up for season three, and you'll see that there's some specific references to Toe. Like, you have to be a hardcore fan of Toe to understand. Distoesher, for instance, that's a UFO one that we talked about on the Diana Pasolka podcast. Distoesher. I have a Toe fetish, that's hilarious. There's Toe socks, there's a Toe hat."
},
{
"end_time": 11646.476,
"index": 507,
"start_time": 11621.476,
"text": " There's what Gary Nolan said, which is, the voices are back, excellent. There's don't thrust your toe, trust your toe. There's also this having mode and being mode, that one comes from John Vervecky. There's the toe cup, obviously a Theories of Everything cup. There's hey, we're not fighting, it's a theolo-cution. And there's a metal plate, a metal print of the Theories of Everything logo if you want that. Again, this is all exclusive to the next three weeks, it will not be offered after that."
},
{
"end_time": 11668.302,
"index": 508,
"start_time": 11646.476,
"text": " You can visit tinyurl.com slash TOE merch. Also, the link is in the description. You should also know about the Patreon. If you want to support this podcast, that's patreon.com slash KurtJMungle. Over there, you get access, exclusive access to early ad free versions of the episodes. Additionally, you can always personally message me and request a question to be asked to a guest."
},
{
"end_time": 11695.811,
"index": 509,
"start_time": 11668.302,
"text": " Now keep in mind that I don't care if someone pays or doesn't pay for a question. A good question is a good question. If you want to nudge me then feel free to do so over there. You can also ask for further contextualization behind something. You can also ask about upcoming guests and behind the scenes info if you like. Alright, now we talk to John Greenwald. So Jeremy Korbel recently revealed the Mojave Triangle UAP, the footage of it. Those are not aluminum rounds because aluminum rounds fall."
},
{
"end_time": 11700.913,
"index": 510,
"start_time": 11696.698,
"text": " and nobody shoots in a five-gun section"
},
{
"end_time": 11729.633,
"index": 511,
"start_time": 11702.022,
"text": " Now, Jeremy Corbell and the co-host of the podcast Weaponized, George Knapp, say they have been looking into this since 2021. There's another image right there. He says, according to reports from witnesses, the whole thing only lasted about 10 minutes from 820 when it appeared to 830 when it blinked out. According to Corbell, it was seen by more than 50 people, many of them Marines. Explain what they saw. So please let the audience know what is that and then what are your views on it? What have you uncovered?"
},
{
"end_time": 11751.408,
"index": 512,
"start_time": 11730.742,
"text": " Sure. Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, who run the Weaponized podcast, have really intrigued me because they go against what I normally speak out against, which is excessive uses of anonymous sources. Now, in journalism, I totally get it. Anonymous sources, they're part of the game. I don't completely dismiss it. But when it comes to UFOs,"
},
{
"end_time": 11769.224,
"index": 513,
"start_time": 11751.886,
"text": " I always cringe when something is purely anonymously sourced, and generally you get that a lot. But why Korbel and Knapp intrigue me is the fact that their stuff actually pans out a lot of the time. So they have published these leaked videos and photographs in the past,"
},
{
"end_time": 11791.647,
"index": 514,
"start_time": 11769.224,
"text": " And to my surprise, despite there being no provenance whatsoever, the Pentagon has responded and said, yes, these are genuine videos utilized by the UAP task force. So although we can't get a ton of information, things start to pan out. Now with that preface, here's a new one that they dropped and that again always piques my interest."
},
{
"end_time": 11805.725,
"index": 515,
"start_time": 11792.022,
"text": " And this was an event that happened on April 20th, 2021 over 29 palms. According to the story, there were 50 and as much as 80 plus witnesses that saw a triangular shaped craft."
},
{
"end_time": 11826.783,
"index": 516,
"start_time": 11806.254,
"text": " in which multiple videos were taken, which are all great things, if true. Lots of witnesses, multiple videos, different angles, so on and so forth. So when I woke up the morning after they dropped this video, because they always do it at midnight and I'm long asleep to try and get in as much as I can with the kids,"
},
{
"end_time": 11840.401,
"index": 517,
"start_time": 11827.244,
"text": " I was really intrigued, looked into it, and for many, many years, just so your audience knows, I had produced television for History Channel, Discovery Channel. One of the shows I worked on was a show called UFO Hunters."
},
{
"end_time": 11861.647,
"index": 518,
"start_time": 11840.657,
"text": " And I can tell you that we saw videos like this all the time. They got submitted to our executive producers or the network itself, and we would be tasked to investigate them. Now I'm bringing that up because when I saw these videos, they looked identical to numerous videos we had gotten in the past, generally around military bases,"
},
{
"end_time": 11882.534,
"index": 519,
"start_time": 11861.92,
"text": " Generally with an Air Force connection, generally with aircraft flares. So I thought, okay, let's apply the same tactics that we did on that show to this. Dug in a little bit and over 29 palms discovered that there was a training exercise that was going on at the exact same time. Now some argue, well, training happens all the time so who cares?"
},
{
"end_time": 11904.445,
"index": 520,
"start_time": 11882.534,
"text": " Well, the reason why we should care is the magnitude of this training exercise that does not happen all the time. So it just happened to have been going on at the exact same time. Digging in a little bit further, I was able to dig up visuals that were published by the Department of Defense, all unclassified, so there was nothing secret about it. And they've been online for actually two years."
},
{
"end_time": 11917.346,
"index": 521,
"start_time": 11904.872,
"text": " One video that was, I would say, more damning than anything to solve this case was labeled to be shot the night of April 20th, 2021, the exact same date."
},
{
"end_time": 11939.616,
"index": 522,
"start_time": 11917.79,
"text": " the last three or four seconds of this b-roll video for those that don't know what b-roll is it's just a compilation of footage for news stations and whomever that's covering this training exercise can get lots of different clips of various parts of the exercise while the last clip was about three four seconds of clearly aircraft flares"
},
{
"end_time": 11962.381,
"index": 523,
"start_time": 11940.111,
"text": " And you see the five bright lights and smoke coming down. It was clearly, you know, flares that were being launched as part of this exercise. Now, why is that important? When you take the UAP footage, there were five lights. When you look at the flares and contrast that with the UAP footage, they match."
},
{
"end_time": 11978.507,
"index": 524,
"start_time": 11962.927,
"text": " And it's a fascinating revelation to see because they literally are five different lights that do not stay in triangular formation. Again, a lot of people are arguing, hey, wait a minute, how did they fly in a triangular formation? Well, when you look at all the evidence Jeremy Corbell published,"
},
{
"end_time": 11996.118,
"index": 525,
"start_time": 11978.507,
"text": " They're not staying in the same exact position whatsoever. They're not triangular. If you freeze frame, you know, this video or this frame, sure, you can get a triangular formation, but as you scrub through all of them, they do not stay in that triangular formation and kind of vary slightly."
},
{
"end_time": 12017.346,
"index": 526,
"start_time": 11996.442,
"text": " with their elevations, seemingly like flares would. So it has created quite a firestorm by posting this stuff out there and showing the military exercise, showing verifiable visuals that match, all coinciding with the exact same time and location."
},
{
"end_time": 12038.66,
"index": 527,
"start_time": 12017.346,
"text": " Now before I get hate mail, we're still trying to figure out exactly what time the DOD footage was shot. So I'm looking into that, I'm still working on it as you and I speak, but when you have an exact match of five different lights that are not in an exact triangular formation and they happen to match,"
},
{
"end_time": 12068.848,
"index": 528,
"start_time": 12038.848,
"text": " That to me is something you have to look at and really consider because the odds, I don't know what the percentage would be, but the odds of five lights falling that are clearly flares in this DOD video, but falling to the same odd formation of lights in a UAP video, you got to look at that. You just, you have to, but some people don't want to, you know, they want to say, well, there's witnesses that go along with it, which is true. But those, those are anonymously sourced."
},
{
"end_time": 12089.019,
"index": 529,
"start_time": 12068.848,
"text": " At this point, two more voices have surfaced, so I think at this point there's four total. And those witnesses say what? That they saw it, but that's it? That they saw it, that they believed it was a craft, that they believed that there was structure in between the lights. They said that it hovered, that it lasted anywhere from ten to"
},
{
"end_time": 12103.097,
"index": 530,
"start_time": 12089.019,
"text": " 30 minutes."
},
{
"end_time": 12122.346,
"index": 531,
"start_time": 12103.746,
"text": " And again, I don't want to discredit eyewitness testimony. It's not about disrespecting Marines or what they saw. I believe that they likely did see something that they couldn't explain. But when you look at the videos, you can see these lights were miles into the distance."
},
{
"end_time": 12140.981,
"index": 532,
"start_time": 12122.346,
"text": " And so they weren't near it which can explain certain attributes that they said didn't make any noise. Well if you're that far away flares aren't all that loud so you may not have seen it. It was also very very dark and they said that they didn't see smoke. Well given the distance maybe you wouldn't see the smoke."
},
{
"end_time": 12160.691,
"index": 533,
"start_time": 12140.981,
"text": " So there's a lot of variables there where it doesn't matter about your training, it doesn't matter about your background, it doesn't matter about your IQ, it doesn't matter about any of that. We can all be wrong with what we think we saw. And I mean, some people hold the idea that if you question a military witness,"
},
{
"end_time": 12188.422,
"index": 534,
"start_time": 12161.203,
"text": " that you're insulting them. And that's not the case at all. It is less about what you believe, more about what you can prove. And what we can prove is what's in these videos and what the DOD has long published. Again, this is not new information. It's been out there for two years. The last thing I'll say too is it's been stated that this lasted anywhere again from about 10 to 30 minutes, but the video evidence that we have"
},
{
"end_time": 12218.575,
"index": 535,
"start_time": 12188.951,
"text": " The longest clip is 36 seconds, and that's it. The shortest is 16 seconds. So the question mark is, why do we have these limited visuals? And I can't get an answer to that, though I have asked, did Jeremy Corbell truncate the footage and only put out a clip? If so, why? Because that doesn't make sense. Or did he only get a 36 second clip, a 16 second clip, and so on? And if that's the case, if these Marines were seeing something that they felt was a craft,"
},
{
"end_time": 12243.78,
"index": 536,
"start_time": 12219.104,
"text": " Why only shoot a video for 36 seconds and go, ah, we're done. You know, that doesn't make sense either. So there's a lot of some of the footage is from Marines as well. That's that's that's what we're told. Yeah. I mean, it's not official footage just to make sure that that is stated. These look like cell phone video cameras or something to that effect. There are five of them, I believe that he released."
},
{
"end_time": 12267.875,
"index": 537,
"start_time": 12243.78,
"text": " All of which again are very dark kind of shaky you can you can see the lights but they just don't stay in the same shape as the name suggests that triangular UAP label that's been put on it so there is that fluctuation so it's not official footage whatsoever and that was also contrary to what Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp have done in the past where they received"
},
{
"end_time": 12278.951,
"index": 538,
"start_time": 12267.875,
"text": " Videos from anonymous sources and then published these these leaked videos and photos But but are utilized in an official capacity and the Pentagon will admit to it"
},
{
"end_time": 12303.012,
"index": 539,
"start_time": 12279.428,
"text": " Fast forward to this one, though, again, completely contrary to the past. It is not the case. But then on top of that, the Pentagon says, no, there was no contact whatsoever. There's no record of any UAP reported. And on top of that, they did confirm what I had come out with that morning after, which was a major training exercise with aircraft in the air."
},
{
"end_time": 12320.316,
"index": 540,
"start_time": 12303.012,
"text": " and what they called military assets in the air. So there was a lot of lot there to kind of go against what we were told and these unanswered questions on where's the extra evidence, why aren't we seeing it is all just kind of up in the air at this point."
},
{
"end_time": 12348.609,
"index": 541,
"start_time": 12321.015,
"text": " If I got this correct, you don't trust anonymous sources, generally speaking, or you don't like when people come out saying, I have some evidence predicated on something anonymous. However, when it comes to George and Jeremy, George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell, they've done the same except that it tends to pan out, meaning that there's then some official corroboration afterward. So you look at their evidence differently than you look at the average person who says, I have something that's contingent on what's anonymous. Minor correction. I don't look at it differently. You're right across the board, but I, I,"
},
{
"end_time": 12374.155,
"index": 542,
"start_time": 12348.609,
"text": " I look at everything the same way, but I do get my interest peaked by them because of their track record of anonymous sources. I see. Panning out. And then when it comes to this, they said that it was something that's a triangle, except that when you look at it, it doesn't retain its shape. There are slight fluctuations that's consistent with if it was a flare and it was just moving a bit with the wind. Correct. However, then there are some people on the ground who said,"
},
{
"end_time": 12399.565,
"index": 543,
"start_time": 12374.155,
"text": " If it was a flare, why would it last for 20 minutes? But then you're saying, well, if it's lasting for that long, which players apparently don't do, but I don't know if that's the case. Maybe there are flares that do, but let's put an asterisk on that. Now, if it's lasting that long, why is there just 30 seconds? Is that about correct? Oh, yeah. And then at the same time, there's a Marine and then you want to give a bit more weight to someone who's in the military because they're familiar with flares. Yeah. And yeah, you're absolutely right. I just question"
},
{
"end_time": 12423.012,
"index": 544,
"start_time": 12399.565,
"text": " Number one whether or not they can be wrong because again military personnel can absolutely be wrong. But the other thing that I question number two is Jeremy Corbell has made the claim that he accounts for ten minutes of this timeline, right? So he by video footage at least that's how I've walked away from his interviews can account for ten minutes worth of the sighting if that's the case and"
},
{
"end_time": 12449.94,
"index": 545,
"start_time": 12423.422,
"text": " We haven't seen any of it. And that's what also kind of boggles my mind a little bit because he says that he wants to crowdsource information, which is a great mindset to have. The internet is an incredibly powerful tool. There's a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds that come from different walks of life that can throw in their two cents. Sometimes their expertise is a little bit more valuable than somebody else's, but regardless, that collective approach"
},
{
"end_time": 12480.06,
"index": 546,
"start_time": 12450.333,
"text": " is something that is so incredibly valuable and it proves itself time and time again. Yet in this case, we're told, yeah, I can account for 10 minutes of the timeline indicating these things were in the air for 10 minutes, which makes flares a little less likely and an arguably a lot less likely. But we've only accounted for seconds, you know, and that's what's very frustrating in something like this, because if you are crowdsourcing for ideas, put that information out there."
},
{
"end_time": 12498.422,
"index": 547,
"start_time": 12480.452,
"text": " You know, and I think that so many people have, if you're willing to look at the evidence, sees that evidence and kind of scratches their head going, why is this getting publicity? Because there's so much to this topic that, in my opinion, deserves much more scrutiny and media attention."
},
{
"end_time": 12522.671,
"index": 548,
"start_time": 12499.172,
"text": " yet this is like out in the open and media, you know, clums all over it and gets the story wrong. And it's not even about not reporting about the exercise or the DOD video match. Sadly, that's a pretty big frustrating thing for me to see. But it's less about that more about the fact that they don't do anything to fact check what they're reporting on."
},
{
"end_time": 12549.326,
"index": 549,
"start_time": 12522.671,
"text": " So moving away from kind of like Jeremy and George, because I don't want to make it seem like I'm harping on them, let's say they just made a mistake. When major mainstream outlets report on this, there was only two that I've seen that actually made mention of the exercise, yet there was a ton of media coverage to it. Anytime a UFO story goes on to the Drudge Report, you get what I call copy and paste journalism."
},
{
"end_time": 12573.712,
"index": 550,
"start_time": 12549.753,
"text": " And it doesn't matter what your views are on Drudge Report. That's an incredibly coveted spot to be in. So the minute an article goes on there, which in this case it did, all of a sudden all these other outlets cover it. And I'm not talking about like lesser known news outlets. I'm talking about CBS. I'm talking about NBC. I'm talking about Fox News. So you get a lot of that coverage and sadly it's just parroted"
},
{
"end_time": 12601.408,
"index": 551,
"start_time": 12574.309,
"text": " uh, same copy and paste journalism of the same wrong story. One even said that it was officially released footage by the Pentagon, which is like completely wrong. So it's like, how does that happen with this story? And, and it's frustrating for me just simply because you want that good attention. There's enough to give good attention. Sometimes it's not as sexy, uh, but it's true. It's verifiable. And that's what I would rather see the attention go to, but sadly,"
},
{
"end_time": 12615.094,
"index": 552,
"start_time": 12602.039,
"text": " Did anyone talk about how they saw it come in or leave?"
},
{
"end_time": 12639.224,
"index": 553,
"start_time": 12615.452,
"text": " It sounds like from the story that it was at different times, but in the same amount of period, like the whole thing just went away. And again, it's a little bit tough because you're hearing Jeremy Corbell convey from the witnesses, but the witness testimony itself, again, there's four of them, is fairly limited. But from what I understand of the story, the thing had vanished."
},
{
"end_time": 12668.456,
"index": 554,
"start_time": 12639.77,
"text": " Uh, which is great, but the videos don't really depict that either. And again, when you compare it to the flare theory kind of coincides, that's what you would have. You would have the kind of the burnout, but the videos don't really have an ending. So you, you have this, this craft and you know, it, it's great that we have that visual evidence, but it really doesn't show you the same story as what the witnesses are conveying, but more so what Jeremy and George has conveyed to the public."
},
{
"end_time": 12686.715,
"index": 555,
"start_time": 12668.66,
"text": " Mm hmm. I did a quick search. A general range may be between one and 10 minutes. Some specialized military flares may last even longer depending on their design and purpose. And certain marine distress flares such as those designed to be used by boats or ships may last up to 20 minutes or more. And then there are certain marine smoke flares that can emit smoke for much longer."
},
{
"end_time": 12705.623,
"index": 556,
"start_time": 12686.715,
"text": " Anyway, if they all disappeared, like I don't know how flares work, or if they're extremely precise in their timing, like this flares meant to last exactly 10 minutes. And so if they all go up at the exact same time, then if they all disappeared at the exact same time, that could be consistent. But if they all disappeared at the exact same time, and they're extremely variable as to how long they last,"
},
{
"end_time": 12731.22,
"index": 557,
"start_time": 12705.623,
"text": " then well that's odd that they would all disappear like that unless they're all roped away for some reason at the exact same time I don't know why the military would do that yeah I think the argument at this point would be that they're what's called illumination battlefield illumination flares that essentially they're they're launched and they come down very very slowly and essentially will light up a battlefield one of the videos that it was said to also include"
},
{
"end_time": 12754.735,
"index": 558,
"start_time": 12731.22,
"text": " were these flares illuminating the object itself. And although that sounds neat when you look at the video, it could absolutely mean that the two flares that we think are illuminating the others are much closer to the camera. They're different types of flares. As you saw from your search, there's all these different types of flares."
},
{
"end_time": 12770.759,
"index": 559,
"start_time": 12754.735,
"text": " that that are in this, you know, essentially this conversation that that this could be connected to. But I think if I were to, you know, bet a dollar, it would be these illumination flares and that they likely didn't last 10 minutes. One of the witnesses that Jeremy just published"
},
{
"end_time": 12786.527,
"index": 560,
"start_time": 12771.169,
"text": " I don't know."
},
{
"end_time": 12807.346,
"index": 561,
"start_time": 12787.176,
"text": " That's not insinuating that he's lying, but we're talking about something that happened two years ago. It's human nature just to kind of round up. I mean, a lot of times when we're doing something in our backyard or in the kitchen or whatever, it could be five minutes, it could be seven minutes, it could be 10, it could be 12. And somebody says, hey, how long did you wash the dishes for? Yeah, I washed them for about 10 minutes."
},
{
"end_time": 12831.203,
"index": 562,
"start_time": 12807.705,
"text": " You know, I mean, it's just around. So yes, it's important. This testimony is very, very important, but we need the visual evidence to back it up. So I go back to that that argument, like how can you disrespect trained observers like United States Marines? Well, it's not about disrespecting them. It's just about the evidence that was brought forward. And at this point, it just doesn't support the story."
},
{
"end_time": 12840.452,
"index": 563,
"start_time": 12831.886,
"text": " All right, so let's move on. The DOD released something called an AOI MSG. So what is that? And then why are there questions raised over the redactions?"
},
{
"end_time": 12867.602,
"index": 564,
"start_time": 12841.63,
"text": " One of the documents that I love to go for are what are utilized by public affairs and these are called briefing cards. And various topics will get internal banter on how to respond to questions on, we'll say UFOs or something that's happening in Afghanistan or the Ukraine or whatever. These briefing cards assist the Office of Public Affairs with how to answer questions."
},
{
"end_time": 12891.578,
"index": 565,
"start_time": 12867.602,
"text": " It also allows them to know what's unclassified, what is something that we can talk about as a government without harming any national security because obviously the press room, the journalists, if they're doing their job, they're asking questions that could impede on classified information. So these briefing cards will really aid in helping answer those questions."
},
{
"end_time": 12900.009,
"index": 566,
"start_time": 12891.578,
"text": " and it really is a straightforward as them creating a hypothetical questions that could be asked and then you have answers."
},
{
"end_time": 12922.91,
"index": 567,
"start_time": 12900.418,
"text": " And so when somebody asks it, you'll see this if you watch a press briefing, which are sometimes pretty snoozy to watch. But when you watch them, you'll see them go in their notebook, open up as the journalist is asking a question. Reason being is they have these answers prepared. So you hear a lot of lines over and over the same way. Well, it's because they're approved. They go through these approval processes. So one of the"
},
{
"end_time": 12944.497,
"index": 568,
"start_time": 12923.507,
"text": " Fun things to get my hands on are the ones related to UFOs because it breaks down the different UFO research efforts. It involves all the different angles of journalists asking these questions. And the AOI MSG was one of the few research efforts that were aimed to investigate UAP."
},
{
"end_time": 12974.241,
"index": 569,
"start_time": 12944.787,
"text": " The current one is Aero, but prior to that was the AOI MSG. It stood for the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group. And when you get these documents, it really gives you a sneak peek into what they wanted the public to know and essentially what they didn't want the public to know. So both ends of the spectrum. So when I first got some of these documents about two weeks ago,"
},
{
"end_time": 13003.985,
"index": 570,
"start_time": 12974.667,
"text": " What was interesting was there was no redactions and it just kind of broke down what the AOI MSG was. Its approach to UAP, why it was doing it, all the stuff we've heard before was nothing earth shattering. But then a second request came in about a week and a half later where it was the same exact briefing card with the same exact date, but it had more information to it. Now, the first one did have a question about extraterrestrials."
},
{
"end_time": 13025.162,
"index": 571,
"start_time": 13004.343,
"text": " And if a journalist were to ask about aliens, what was the response? And essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here, but the DOD was kind of getting away from that topic. They didn't want to talk about it. So they would push the answer towards NASA that the DOD doesn't look for aliens and extraterrestrials."
},
{
"end_time": 13041.698,
"index": 572,
"start_time": 13025.367,
"text": " But NASA does, so essentially trying to say, hey, go to them because we're not looking for extraterrestrials or aliens. My quick argument to that is it doesn't matter if the DOD is looking for aliens or not, if they are truly investigating UAP."
},
{
"end_time": 13057.841,
"index": 573,
"start_time": 13041.698,
"text": " And that slim possibility indicates that there is an extraterrestrial connection, regardless of if they were looking for it or not. They are looking for the truth, right? So we don't push that to NASA. We should be able to deal with the topic, but the DOD doesn't want to."
},
{
"end_time": 13088.114,
"index": 574,
"start_time": 13058.439,
"text": " There were no redactions in that first release, but in the version that I got on the second release had a full redacted section after the extraterrestrial question about additional talking points. And I want to make sure that I quote the document correctly, but additional background information and in parentheses, not for release. And it was entirely redacted this entire section. The question mark is why?"
},
{
"end_time": 13117.09,
"index": 575,
"start_time": 13088.592,
"text": " Now, I want to put up front, it's possible that this section and this header has nothing to do with extraterrestrials, and that's fine. So I want to make sure that that's stated. It may just be a coincidence it comes after the extraterrestrial question. But the other part of it, regardless of if it's connected to extraterrestrials or not, what don't they want us to know in a public affairs document? One key point I may not have mentioned yet is it's unclassified."
},
{
"end_time": 13141.203,
"index": 576,
"start_time": 13117.637,
"text": " So these documents, when it comes to public affairs, these types of documents are unclassified, so there's no classified information in it, simply because this is what they want to convey to the public. But in this particular document, these redactions were there. The legal justification, when it comes to the letter of the law, states that the DOD is arguing it is deliberative"
},
{
"end_time": 13169.548,
"index": 577,
"start_time": 13141.561,
"text": " process information. So essentially they're talking about something internally and they don't want you to know. So that deliberative process, that internal banter is potentially exempt under FOIA. That's a technical term, deliberative process? Right. So it's deliberative in nature. So the phrase that we've used a lot to reference, it's called exemption B5."
},
{
"end_time": 13197.722,
"index": 578,
"start_time": 13170.094,
"text": " The phrase that we've used to reference this is essentially the exempt it if you want to exemption because they can, if they want to just cite B5 and fall back on that. And there's really no way to fight it. Now I have issued an appeal. I have wanted to, to fight this, which I am, and that's ongoing as we speak, but it is very, very hard to, to fight B5 exemptions simply because"
},
{
"end_time": 13222.722,
"index": 579,
"start_time": 13198.148,
"text": " It doesn't have to be classified. It doesn't have to be a threat to national security if they release it. There doesn't have to be an internal statute that exempts them from releasing the information. No, the reviewer just has to look at it and go, ah, it's deliberative. Let's go ahead and use B5. And that's why we call it on my side of the fence, not the government side, but my side of the fence, the exempt if you want to exemption. So it's frustrating to see"
},
{
"end_time": 13229.804,
"index": 580,
"start_time": 13222.995,
"text": " but again it begs the question of if if we really are dealing with a government that wants to be as transparent as they can"
},
{
"end_time": 13253.166,
"index": 581,
"start_time": 13230.265,
"text": " Yeah, I wouldn't say that the government is trying to be as transparent as they can."
},
{
"end_time": 13276.732,
"index": 582,
"start_time": 13253.302,
"text": " They claim to be. They say they're trying to be as transparent as they can? Yeah. In the hearing, Scott Bray or Ronald Moultray or both, they were kind of saying like, look, as long as we don't have a threat to national security here, we want to be as transparent with the public and this, that, and the other thing. In the most recent hearing, so that was the first hearing, the most recent one,"
},
{
"end_time": 13304.531,
"index": 583,
"start_time": 13276.732,
"text": " Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick said something similar and that they were trying to create a website that people like you and I can go on from the public and download information from their UFO case files that they've released to the public. Now all that sounds great but nothing is happening and Kirkpatrick said that the upper essentially the upper echelon at the DOD has the draft"
},
{
"end_time": 13321.237,
"index": 584,
"start_time": 13305.128,
"text": " of this website in their hands and has had so since the holiday season of 2022 and has not approved anything and hasn't launched anything. So what they say in these hearings is wildly different than what they're actually doing."
},
{
"end_time": 13342.398,
"index": 585,
"start_time": 13321.766,
"text": " So while the government hasn't been able to create such a website, me and you have worked behind the scenes to try and create some indexable natural language way of searching through your documents. And that website is the blacktoevault.com. The Black Vault is like 99.99999% of the work. I want to keep letting people know that I'm just like a hair on the top of John's head."
},
{
"end_time": 13361.459,
"index": 586,
"start_time": 13343.148,
"text": " So just saying like, Hey, there's got to be like, you've done all this work across all these years, these decades, like, let's find some way to make it even more accessible using the latest technology. So that's the blacktoeva.com and whether or not that forwards to another URL that we change it to later by the time you hear this, who knows, but currently that's the website."
},
{
"end_time": 13391.357,
"index": 587,
"start_time": 13362.346,
"text": " I'm super excited about that too, because obviously the buzzwords in today's society, even away from UFOs, is AI and artificial intelligence and how can those tools be utilized for our everyday work. And I'll be honest with you, I began utilizing it myself for things that I do, even unrelated to the Black Vault, but it's an incredibly powerful tool. But how can you take that technology and take that power and connect it to a database of 3.2 million pages of documents on"
},
{
"end_time": 13409.377,
"index": 588,
"start_time": 13391.664,
"text": " all sorts of topics or just the UFO section. What can be done with it? I'm really, really eager to see how this plays out and how the technology evolves and then how that can help us all with research and getting answers and trying to unravel some of these mysteries."
},
{
"end_time": 13437.705,
"index": 589,
"start_time": 13409.531,
"text": " Yeah, and Dan, Daniel, person you've been speaking with, Daniel van Zandt, he said, Kurt, this wouldn't have even been able to be talked about being done six months ago. Like we're using the cutting edge. Yeah. These tools will continue to evolve and more features will be added. And who knows, maybe even it becomes I would like it to become open source and transparent in terms of the algorithm and how it's taking in the information and processing it. Yeah. And hopefully someone else takes this over because I just I like to theories of everything and studying math and physics."
},
{
"end_time": 13460.52,
"index": 590,
"start_time": 13437.705,
"text": " And this was like a way, way, way larger project than I thought. Yeah. You correctly estimated it and I remember thinking, no, it's got to be easier than that, John. Yeah. But you know what's cool and on your point and Daniel's point is that six months ago, this wasn't possible. Now we're having the conversation. And even though we're seeing those road bumps and kind of concerns over the amount of data and how that's going to happen,"
},
{
"end_time": 13477.756,
"index": 591,
"start_time": 13461.032,
"text": " in a couple months from now six months or even a year from now you see the evolution of this technology and in my mind you really want to have a show that that how that technology will evolve itself and i think that there's going to become a point where all of a sudden you will run into these roadblocks"
},
{
"end_time": 13502.875,
"index": 592,
"start_time": 13477.756,
"text": " But the assistance of AI will help you overcome those roadblocks themselves. So even though I can't see it with my pea brain, AI might be able to or create some kind of algorithm that we could utilize that we never thought of. That's what's fascinating about it because what is impossible on Monday is commonplace on Tuesday in this world and that's what intrigues me the most about it."
},
{
"end_time": 13530.589,
"index": 593,
"start_time": 13503.677,
"text": " Okay, so now let's lastly talk about a recent article on your website about the UAP Task Force and Travis Taylor. So just walk us through what is that about? What are your thoughts on that? Sure. So the UAP Task Force was yet again one of those efforts with many names. It keeps evolving name-wise and Office who controls them makes it a little bit frustrating for a researcher. But the UAP Task Force was an effort"
},
{
"end_time": 13559.531,
"index": 594,
"start_time": 13530.981,
"text": " to investigate UFOs, UAP, and by research and kind of digging into documents, had discovered a couple years ago it was likely led by a man by the name of Jay Stratton. And that has since been confirmed. But what wasn't really confirmed was who worked with him. Now, Dr. Travis Taylor, who's an incredibly smart individual, I worked with him when I was producing for History Channel many, many years ago before any of this UFO stuff"
},
{
"end_time": 13577.261,
"index": 595,
"start_time": 13559.855,
"text": " had broken with his connection to it and had produced some shows, talked to him, you know, throughout the production of those really, really great individual, incredibly intelligent. So as word started to kind of pass that these names were coming out,"
},
{
"end_time": 13604.906,
"index": 596,
"start_time": 13578.012,
"text": " Dr. Travis Taylor, I think, and this is partly a guess, decided to come out on his own accord to reveal that he was what was called the chief scientist on the UAP task force. Now you may not recognize Dr. Taylor's name per se, but if you watch the show Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel, wildly popular, he's one of the stars of that show. So he's been involved in TV for a very long time, involved in"
},
{
"end_time": 13611.254,
"index": 597,
"start_time": 13604.906,
"text": " classified programs with rocketry and stuff like that for a long time so his name was getting"
},
{
"end_time": 13641.186,
"index": 598,
"start_time": 13611.8,
"text": " kind of mixed into the paranormal through that show. But then all of a sudden he comes out and he goes, yeah, essentially the government was paying me to be the chief scientist of the UAP task force. It was a huge revelation. That story was broken by George Knapp. So credit where it's due. That had come out through him. So when that story had broke, anytime a new name comes out, I'm right there to take that name, connect it to FOIA requests and start seeing what you can find."
},
{
"end_time": 13656.408,
"index": 599,
"start_time": 13641.493,
"text": " And when that story broke, that's what I did. I took a FOIA request and was looking for communications between Dr. Travis Taylor and his work at Redstone Arsenal and the UAP Task Force."
},
{
"end_time": 13672.551,
"index": 600,
"start_time": 13656.732,
"text": " and because again that those were all provable aspects of his career we knew where he was in the army so if he was doing work with the UAP task force certainly there were communications emails stuff like that what I received back was"
},
{
"end_time": 13702.039,
"index": 601,
"start_time": 13672.551,
"text": " highly redacted yet again that they didn't want to tell us what was going on between Dr. Taylor and the UAP task force. There's an unknown number of pages that were sent to the Navy for review and hopeful release to me. So it could be a hundred pages, could be a thousand pages. I have no idea. They don't want to tell you. So I'm still working on figuring out a number. But that aside, I think there were about 28 pages that were released. Essentially all of them were redacted, but eight."
},
{
"end_time": 13730.794,
"index": 602,
"start_time": 13702.039,
"text": " Something like that. So it was just a very high percentage of material that was redacted Same kind of thing where you don't really know a whole lot of reasons on why there was some information that was exempted because of the deliberative process and that was was considered deliberative in nature Some other, you know redaction citations. I won't bore you to death with but essentially they just didn't want to tell you so what you can deduce though from it was a"
},
{
"end_time": 13745.503,
"index": 603,
"start_time": 13731.425,
"text": " He was obviously involved so that kind of solidified all that even though we kind of knew that already it's it's nice to have documentation, but we also have other records that indicate essentially how they viewed themselves in the story."
},
{
"end_time": 13775.265,
"index": 604,
"start_time": 13745.896,
"text": " And even though his name was redacted, it's pretty sorry how they viewed themselves. They correct. Yeah. So, so one email that although the name was redacted, it's easy to figure out was likely written by Jay Stratton. He was the director of the UAPTF. That's how he signed on the signature line, but they just redact the name. So a lot of times you can just deduce who it is. Um, but in their, in their email, he was introducing Travis Taylor to a team. We don't know the entire team."
},
{
"end_time": 13801.715,
"index": 605,
"start_time": 13775.265,
"text": " number or who the names were, but was saying that Dr. Travis Taylor was going to help make their mark on history. And it was kind of this inside look that that's what they felt on the inside, that they were going to be making history running the UAP Task Force. And so when Taylor was introduced to everybody, that was how Jay Stratton said it, like, this is the guy that's going to help make our mark on history."
},
{
"end_time": 13825.64,
"index": 606,
"start_time": 13801.715,
"text": " So it's a very interesting thing where even though you have all these redactions, it's interesting because you can start to see the mindset that they were in, that they believe that with the UAP Task Force, they were going to make their mark. They were going to change history. In what way? I don't know. I mean, we can kind of guess on that, but it is interesting to see that that's what they believed behind the scenes about their work in the UAP Task Force."
},
{
"end_time": 13846.766,
"index": 607,
"start_time": 13826.015,
"text": " What's odd to me is that when someone works for the government, especially in this topic, like, let's say, Eric Davis, or at least allegedly works for the government, they can't do media. Someone like Travis Taylor, I assume the UAP task force is related to the government and is working for the government and then is allowed to have seasons on the History Channel about the same topic. How does that work?"
},
{
"end_time": 13869.889,
"index": 608,
"start_time": 13847.637,
"text": " Yeah, that was a big question mark from people like me and many, many others. If you're doing that work and you're working in a classified realm, all of that is 100% confirmed. There's no arguing that. So Dr. Taylor was involved in highly classified material and working on that at the same time working on a History Channel show called Skinwalker Ranch."
},
{
"end_time": 13898.251,
"index": 609,
"start_time": 13870.384,
"text": " that was in the same paranormal genre. Imagine if someone was a CIA spy and that's secret classified and then they go and then they're an actor in a show where they play a CIA spy and that's completely allowed and not only is it once like it's a major role and it's several episodes and then it gets renewed for seasons. I think that that was a concern by many of the public but also within the cast of Skinwalker Ranch."
},
{
"end_time": 13914.309,
"index": 610,
"start_time": 13898.763,
"text": " And they had done a behind the scenes interview which I saw on their it's like a paywall area that they have for the for the show and they were all talking after this broke that Dr. Taylor was"
},
{
"end_time": 13943.797,
"index": 611,
"start_time": 13915.725,
"text": " kind of doubling, if you want to call it that. I mean, he was head of the UAP Task Force working on highly classified information within the government, but at the same time, working with them on the ranch, investigating UFOs and other paranormal events. How could you not tell the people that you're working with on this TV show, hey, by the way, I'm working for the government too, which some of you may think is involved in this massive cover-up"
},
{
"end_time": 13970.503,
"index": 612,
"start_time": 13944.36,
"text": " I'm with them right now. I'm working for them too, but I'm not going to tell you. It's a really bizarre situation and on top of that, I question how do you not know? Like how is that possible that somebody who's doing the classified work for the government, doing the consulting work for the UAP Task Force, which was official, so you're doing all that official work but then doing"
},
{
"end_time": 13985.964,
"index": 613,
"start_time": 13970.503,
"text": " This tv show on the side there's a lot of questions there how much information was doctor taylor taking from that show and giving it to the government potentially without their knowledge i'm not trying to create any conspiracies there but those are those are viable questions to ask."
},
{
"end_time": 14008.609,
"index": 614,
"start_time": 13985.964,
"text": " when you're doing such double work. And I think that those have not been answered. So going back to that FOIA request that reveals some of these emails, you start to piece together some of those answers. Not all, but some of them where you can kind of see Stratton was getting funding to get Dr. Travis Taylor to fly to Washington. So you start putting things together in a big timeline."
},
{
"end_time": 14026.971,
"index": 615,
"start_time": 14008.609,
"text": " Which is what I've done and it's a massive, massive undertaking in itself. But every time these documents come in, like the Dr. Travis Taylor documents and so on, you can take dates or at least some idea of a date and put it on that timeline and say, Dr. Travis was"
},
{
"end_time": 14044.121,
"index": 616,
"start_time": 14026.971,
"text": " You just put all these pieces of the puzzle together."
},
{
"end_time": 14065.572,
"index": 617,
"start_time": 14044.121,
"text": " It seems likely that I'll be able to speak to Travis for the podcast so I can ask him any questions that you have and any questions in the audience if you have, you can comment below."
},
{
"end_time": 14088.848,
"index": 618,
"start_time": 14065.998,
"text": " Apparently, Travis has a PhD in optical engineering. So it would be great to speak to him about some of the physics. A question I have is when people say that UFOs break the laws of physics, like how do you know that they break the laws? Because do you have enough data to even state that? But anyway, I'm looking forward to that. And I appreciate that you've spent now three hours, maybe even total three and a half hours with me and far more like"
},
{
"end_time": 14114.087,
"index": 619,
"start_time": 14089.053,
"text": " Over text, just working out this project. Thank you, man. Thank you for spending so much time with me. Of course. I hope it was okay. Oh, it's wonderful. It was an honor to be here, man. You ask excellent questions. I've looked forward to the interview since we first talked about it, however many months ago. And yeah, I'm glad we were able to do it. And hopefully the answers made a little bit of sense. I hope that it lived up to the hype."
},
{
"end_time": 14142.125,
"index": 620,
"start_time": 14114.616,
"text": " Of course. Look, it's always fun to be interviewed by someone who asks intelligent, great questions. And you can tell by your interviews, that's who you are. That's a channel you've built. I have a lot of respect for that. So kudos to you and wish you all the best. And I hope my side lived up to being asked to be on the show. So thank you for that. Thank you, man."
},
{
"end_time": 14162.773,
"index": 621,
"start_time": 14142.688,
"text": " All right, this podcast has been so, so long in the making because I wanted to release this tool with it. And Daniel Vanzant is the person I keep bringing up. His name is across the screen right now and he has Cephalopod AI solutions. I just want to plug them once more because he's not only a machine learning expert, he develops from the idea stage, the product along with you to its final form."
},
{
"end_time": 14192.329,
"index": 622,
"start_time": 14162.773,
"text": " He's also an automation specialist and with large companies, he focuses on ROI. So if you're watching this, go to the website, you can check out his work. You've seen the interview. You can check out his website. I recommend him wholeheartedly. Daniel Van Zandt, Cephalopod AI Solutions. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate how much you have advised me when it comes to machine learning and building this product. The black toe vault dot com. That's a place that you can go with natural language, meaning just the way that you would speak to another person and ask queries to a percentage of John's FOIA requests."
},
{
"end_time": 14221.493,
"index": 623,
"start_time": 14192.329,
"text": " The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked on that like button, now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people. You should also know that there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes, disagree respectfully about theories and build as a community our own toes. Links to both are in the description."
},
{
"end_time": 14248.439,
"index": 624,
"start_time": 14221.493,
"text": " Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting theoriesofeverything.org. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on Toe full-time."
},
{
"end_time": 14257.705,
"index": 625,
"start_time": 14248.439,
"text": " You get early access to ad-free audio episodes there as well. Every dollar helps far more than you may think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you."
}
]
}No transcript available.