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Garry Nolan on the Evidence behind UFOs, Psychedelics, and Artificial Consciousness
April 19, 2022
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The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze.
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Just a note, if you haven't seen the April Fool's video, the ranking of the toes, then click on the link in the description as I placed quite a significant amount of effort into it and people seem to enjoy it, which is always a delightful match.
Gary Nolan is an immunologist, an inventor, a business executive, and a professor at the Stanford School of Medicine. Today, we talk about subjects ranging from nootropics to the potential physical evidence of intelligent life being behind what are the reports of UFOs, including the adverse effects of interacting with the phenomenon,
which was just declassified in late March 2022. Click on the timestamp in the description if you'd like to skip this intro. My name is Kurt Jaimungal. I'm a Torontonian filmmaker with a background in mathematical physics dedicated to the explication of the variegated terrain of theories of everything.
from a theoretical physics perspective, but as well as analyzing consciousness and seeing its potential connection to fundamental reality, whatever that is. Essentially, this channel is dedicated to exploring the underived nature of reality, the constitutional laws that govern it, provided those laws exist at all and are even knowable to us. If you enjoy witnessing and engaging with others on the topics of psychology, consciousness, physics, etc., the channel's themes,
Then do consider going to the Discord and the subreddit, which are linked in the description. There's also a link to the Patreon, that is patreon.com slash KurtGymungle, if you'd like to support this podcast, as the patrons and the sponsors are the only reasons that I'm able to have podcasts of this quality and this depth.
Given that I can do this now, full-time, thanks to both the patrons and the sponsors' support. Speaking of sponsors, there are two. The first sponsor is Brilliant. During the winter break, I decided to brush up on some of the fundamentals of physics, particularly with regard to information theory, as I'd like to interview Chiara Marletto on constructor theory, which is heavily based in information theory.
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It seems like it comes down from the sky arbitrarily. And with Brilliant, for the first time, I was able to see how the formula for entropy, which you're seeing right now, is actually extremely natural. And it'd be strange to define it in any other manner. There are plenty of courses, and you can even learn group theory, which is what's being referenced when you hear that the standard model is predicated on U1 cross SU2 cross SU3. Those are Lie groups, continuous Lie groups. Visit brilliant.org slash totoe to get 20% off an annual subscription.
And I recommend that you don't stop before four lessons. I think you'll be greatly surprised at the ease at which you can now comprehend subjects you previously had a difficult time grokking. The second sponsor is Algo. Now, Algo is an end-to-end supply chain optimization software company with software that helps business users optimize sales and operations, planning to avoid stockouts, reduce return and inventory write downs while reducing inventory investment.
It's a supply chain AI that drives smart ROI headed by Amjad Hussain, who's been a huge supporter of this podcast since near its inception. In fact, Amjad has his own podcast on AI and consciousness and business growth. And if you'd like to support the Toe podcast, then visit the link in the description to see Amjad's podcast because subscribing to him or at least visiting supports the Toe podcast indirectly. Thank you and enjoy. Of all the pieces of evidence that you've seen that you've heard of,
hard pieces of evidence that you can disclose. Which one stands out as most extraordinary and why is it not ordinary? Well, of the pieces that I've seen, there's the materials that have supposedly been dropped from craft. They're ordinary in some ways, but they're extraordinary from the standpoint if you ask why.
Why would somebody, as in the case of the Council Bluffs incident, why would something drop some form of molten metal that has iron and a few other impurities, as opposed to anything? I mean, I suppose I would say that anything that you have, which is, again, allegedly dropped off of some of these objects, is in and of itself extraordinary.
because you have to ask the question, okay, well, what is it about this? Should the event be real? That is somehow linked to the formation of either a power supply or a propulsion or something else. I mean, for all we know, it's the side product of their entertainment system. So, you know, when you get something like this,
you would perhaps like it to be related to, you know, something extraordinary about the craft or the object's mobility or function, but it might have a completely side use that is unrelated to any of the above. What I find extraordinary particularly, let's say, about the Council Bluffs is that I know of at least three other events that are similar.
in terms of material that was dropped and in case one of them is here in California where the I haven't had a chance to analyze it directly but at least visually it's the same. So you know when it comes to science when you have two examples of something similar it's more than a coincidence when you have those kinds of things. You know the other one that is both
extraordinary as well as ordinary is the the event in Trinity that Jacques Vallee wrote about and the object which was supposedly taken you know from the from the craft by these two children that you know I've had it here at my house several times with Jacques brings it over and we you know we talk about we don't need it because it's
But it's just, it's just sort of like a point of reference to have it here as we're talking with a group of other people about it. In that it, you know, for all intents and purposes, and there's pictures of it on the web, for all intents and purposes, it looks very normal. And if anything, crafted in a, in a old style way by a kind of what's called sand casting of molten metal, there's a
process. It's called sand casting, I think. And so, you know, either it's something which was, I mean, this is speculation on Jacques part at some point, is that, you know, there was there had been an actual object on the on the graph, but by the time the that had been replaced by this thing, for some reason, we don't know why, but that when the children came on board,
It had already, whatever was actually there had already been removed and then this had been put there. It was the only thing that they could grab and pull off. So they ran with it. So it might have, you know, for instance, absolutely nothing to do with the craft itself or the object itself. Uh, and has been something that the, the, you know, for some reason, the department of defense who got there first decided they just needed to put there as a placeholder. I don't know. So,
I mean, but it's extraordinary in and of itself that somebody, if they took something off the craft, the DOD, let's say there had been something there, they took something off. They felt they had to replace it with something, if that makes sense. So firstly, what do you mean when you said that we don't need it? You said Jack would bring it over, but you don't need it. Oh, we, we, we don't need to have it here every time we have a discussion about it is what I mean. But you know,
It's just the personalities involved like to have it almost like a reference point sitting in the middle of the table as we talk about it. Okay, and so for those who are unfamiliar with this story, there are two children who watched a craft crash, is that correct? And then there were some beings and then actually when I was speaking to Jacques, which I called him Jack before, but Jacques, we didn't get into what happened to those aliens. What happened to them?
Well, I mean, if you read the book, there was, they were observed over the course of several hours, as it was relayed by the children, sort of walking around outside of the craft in a kind of a, in a tizzy, essentially, frantically. Yeah, like, ordinarily, they were moving in fits,
Yeah. And so that in and of itself was interesting. And then they were no longer there at some point, at least when the Defense Department or the Army people arrived. But there was another event because the children who took the object hid it
in a shed, as I recall, on their father's property and one of their father's property under the floorboards. And for some reason, the kids were in there at night. And this is one of the really weird, how do you, how do you put this in a materialism or a materialistic kind of context that they said that the, the beings, whatever they were, walked through the wall into the,
into the shed and pointed towards where the object was. Okay, well, that's strange, right? First of all, because to me, at least the object looks very ordinary. It looks like it's something was probably, you know, taken from some farm tractor or something. And, you know, I would love it if the people would look online. Overlaying an image, you know, but no, I mean, so overlay the image. Yeah. And
Um, you know, can anybody identify this? You know, there've been things like said, Oh, this is a piece of a, of something from a windmill. Well, that's, that's nice speculation, but show me. And I would love for somebody to show me that that's what it is. Because again, to me, it looks ordinary. Um, but if it is ordinary, then why would the children say that later the being seemed to come and point at it as if it was something important and
It comes back to that thing that both John Keele and Jacques have said, is that after these events occur, there are these reinforcement efforts that seem to go on. Like the men in black show up the day after and tell you not to do something, not to say something. Well, what's going to make you remember something more than if somebody shows up and tells you not to remember it? So again, it's that kind of
strangeness associated with it that, you know, many so-called skeptics, rightfully, and as Jacques has said, because I think, frankly, he's the king of skeptics, said, this is absurd. You know, how does it make sense? What do we make from something like this? So anyway, that's those are the two that that I'm most interested in. You know, then I guess a third one would be the the Bismuth material.
that Hal Puthoff talks about a lot around the wave guide. You know, I've looked at it and I've heard both sides of the argument as to whether it's, you know, the byproduct of just a normal human smelting process versus is it something real? I don't know. So I guess only further testing will determine. There's other materials like the one from San Augustine
that again, I have looked at now several of them, not all of them, but several of them. And they're completely explainable. And we'll be publishing some papers on those as well. People who think that there's something called alien honeycomb. It's not. It's something from a 1940s process. And that's, if anything, a bit of a, that's a bit of a news release, if you will. We haven't talked about that publicly, but we know absolutely.
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Do you have any biological samples in your possession? No. I don't. I don't.
I was offered some biological samples. These are some of the so-called implants. But when I started asking questions about the provenance of these things, and the first one was, well, where's the consent forms from the patient? Because you can't just go running willy-nilly with pieces of people's bodies or things out of people's bodies that, first of all, don't have consent forms.
Second of all, and that's for both HIPAA as well as other reasons I'm about to tell you, which is that, you know, let's say that somebody takes a nodule out of somebody's arm. Well, who's to say it's not cancer? Did you send it to a pathologist for review? None of these things were done with most of these things. And I realized that the person who realized who took out some of these things was themselves a doctor, but they probably should have known better.
you know, because if these days something goes wrong and that person gets cancer, even if it wasn't, that thing wasn't cancer, somebody could quite rightly ask you, did you test that? How do you know that that wasn't a initiating cancer and that the person died of a metastasis? So you're at fault. So the materials that I were sent was sent,
at one point after I asked that question within a few days, I sent it right back and said, no, I mean, would I love to be able to get it handle on biological materials? Absolutely. Because I can go through all of the testing that I know how to do. In fact, I'm probably better at biological materials than I am at metals. Are you able to test if it's cancer? Like you are you able to test now, even though it's later? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, as long as as long as it's been preserved,
I can't, I sent it back. But you know, the other thing is that you, you can't, if I don't have a consent form from the patient and in some cases, some of these, let's say objects are, are so old, if you will, uh, that there is no consent form. And then you'd have to go to the family members to get consent because the people are public and often, and the names are public.
And, you know, the families might not want to be dismerged. So, you know, you just got to be very careful with all of this stuff. You know, and I think I learned it, I learned this most through the, the Atacama exercise. That even though I didn't think it was, I thought that it was probably like a monkey or something like that. When we found out conclusively that Atacama was human, well, that's when the
ethicists descended en masse to say, well, we you should have known. Well, you didn't know, first of all. But secondly, you know, there were no consents from family, which was, you know, that's right. But, you know, I didn't take the thing and I didn't I didn't know what it was at the beginning. But now people know conclusively and they can do what they want with that data. And I think give the
That's an interesting point.
walking into an area thinking that you're doing good and then realizing the truth and then realizing you perhaps shouldn't have walked into that to begin with. There's this question I have about when someone's encountering the phenomenon. Let's imagine this occurs to one of the people watching. Do you have advice given from all that you know and all of the people you've spoken to, like Lou, for example, should someone approach it, stay away, run away? Should they contact someone directly afterwards? Should they not wash their clothing because of residual evidence on it? I see. I see. Like a crime scene.
Um, well, first thing is I wouldn't approach it, right? Because, you know, you don't know what it is. You know, just, just because you see a glowing ball of something doesn't mean it's an alien. It could be ball lightning, you know, rare as it is. And that could be, you know, it's a purely terrestrially explainable phenomenon at some level and you, you might hurt yourself. So, you know, and then I just wouldn't approach it and I would save everything that you can. Um, and.
I think writing down your thoughts at the moment is probably the most important thing, because remembering things years later, you fill in the gaps. So, you know, write it down. But also, I would also say don't believe everything you see. Right? Just because you see something doesn't mean it's actually there. You know, there's, there are enough stories about people who feel that these things are projections.
So maybe it's something projected into an individual's mind. Again, this is all conjecture. And again, I want to warn the various skeptics who love to write little nasty grams about me. You know, I'm not a born and true believer. I am interested in finding out what the truth is about these things. I feel that given that there are enough individuals
who seem to report seeing the same things or experiencing the same things that there's a story here that needs to be explained. It's either mass hysteria, some form of Jungian collective unconscious kind of thing, or it's something real. But then once you get to the it's something real, how real or unreal is it? And again, if people are familiar with John Keel and Jacques
primary theses on this, that it's, you know, there's, there's an element of irrea, in reality to this, that has yet to be understood. It drives me crazy, you know, thinking about it. And anybody, especially with Jacques, with the background and knowledge about what it is that Jacques involves himself with, is he's always looking for what's behind the what's behind.
that what you're presented is, as he often has called it, a form of Kabuki theater. It's something which is meant to be an intermediary or a stand-in for an objective, that these beings or whatever the people claim it is that they see aren't necessarily the beings or the consciousness, as you're interested in, that's actually driving the process.
That there's something put there in the stead of whatever this higher level consciousness is as an intermediary. And I had a long discussion about this, I think on the Lex Fridman show for people who want to, you know, talk about that, the whole, the ants and how do you communicate with ants? Right. I'll leave a link to that in the description. Many of the skeptics don't understand. Well, maybe they understand, but for this topic, they don't, they,
don't seem to have a handle that science is contingent on speculation, that it's difficult in some ways the ground that one stands on as a scientist because it's difficult to build up from the atomic rational facts and that one makes intuitive leaps and they're inspired by logic but often in contradiction to it and independent from it. Right. Idea generation is throwing plenty at the wall and knowing most will fail and inventive ideas are generally seen as outlandish nonsensical initially anyway.
One of the goals with the Toe channel with this channel is to have these behind the door conversations that ordinarily occur in academia to be in front of the monitor. So at some point I'll have on Carl Fursten and Michael Levin who are going to be speculating in real time in front of the audience just to show what it looks like. Right. Well, it's absolutely true. And you call out something and I haven't I've ever haven't really ever put it that way is that the foundation of science is, as you said, pure speculation. I'd go only a
Step further, the foundation of science is built on fantasy, right? That the fantasies of how we think the world is operating, right? I mean, nobody would have even, and all of our science is almost two to 3000 years old. If you go back to Plato and the Greeks and even further back, many other cultures have all contributed. And yet none of them understood that today reality is built up from these quantum wave forms.
right way down at the at the base level of whatever it is that the universe really is and so and yet our our ability to talk about it is all built on surrogate knowledge of what is actually really operating and only as it gets to an observable level do we ever really talk about what reality is and yet way down deep is this complex math that is is
still yet unexplainable. And so we're building our picture of the world on a form of a fantasy, and science does that. I mean, as a biologist, for instance, we rarely, if ever, see the things in their native form that we talk about inside of cells. Everything is with these surrogate measurements
I attach something to something else and when it does this, I infer that. And so we make up these ideas about how it is that nature is constructed, but it's rarely having seen what it is that's there. And it was really only, you know, in say the last 50 or so years with the advent of things like electron microscopy and
the determination of protein structures and other things by crystallography, that our fantasies matched a picture of the reality where we can actually see the proteins that we knew were there. And they had the modules and the pieces on them that we inferred must be operable from other genetics or other kinds of experiments. And so I think science is moving towards a more, let's say, picture-based view of the world
but most of our linguistics around the discussion of science is still using the fantasy language of 100 to 200 years ago. So you have to, but you have to come up with crazy ideas to explain these. I mean, we see it every day in my lab. We're like, how, wait, how, what, what's going on here? Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. And I always tell people that there, at least the way that I do it is
your best at science when you can instantly formulate a whole range of ideas that might explain it. And everything from things that are potentially real and based on the experiments you do, all the way down to, I jokingly say, micro elves running the universe. But you have to be able to keep all of that in mind at a moment. And then you have to cut kind of two thresholds. And in order
the most likely chain of probability that one is correct or not. And I come up with a couple of thresholds. One threshold is possible, and then everything below it is, you know, okay, no, there's no micro elves running the universe. But then, and everything above it is possible. And then within that, you have to be able to say, above this is testable. And in here is this kind of no man's land of
possible but I don't have the instrumentation yet to test it and actually that's the area more often that personally I like to work because we don't have the means to test something and then that's where for instance I've created a number of companies and sold them over the years and it's always been about shrinking the size of the untestable realm.
so that we can basically, when we come up with a hypothesis that's based on materialism of some sort, I can actually see it. And that's moved, you know, I mean, some of the instruments in my lab were spun out as companies, and then everybody in the world in the sciences in my area uses them. And, you know, but I've been focusing smaller and smaller and smaller down towards subcellular and now atomic imaging.
What do you make of the derision from the skeptics and maybe even scientists who say, well, I only follow the data and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What's your response to those statements? Well, my response is, well, if that's how you want to operate, stay in the caves. I'm interested in leaving the caves and going out into uncharted territory. And, you know, the derision comes, I think,
from people thinking that a conclusion has been made. No conclusion has been made. A potential explanation for the data has been offered. And even when you publish a paper, everybody knows that when you publish a paper and you state the conclusions, you are stating a formulation of the observations at a moment in time.
fully well realizing that 10 years from now or 20 years from now, what you thought was X, Y, and Z is actually part of a larger framework and picture that you can look back and say, well, that's not quite the way to look at it. Here's how you would think about how this is operating. So papers are, although people like to think are scientists saying this is how things are, even though it comes across that way often in papers,
It really is just a moment in time that you're planting a flag and you're going to say, okay, 10, 20 years from now, we might reformulate because new data has arrived, which allows us to put things into a bigger picture. I mean, you know this from physics, you know, Maxwell's equations on, you know, on electricity and magnetism. You know, there are formulations of those these days that
show that there's a form of quantum physics that Maxwell's equations fall out of, but the quantum equations are a larger picture of reality and that the Maxwell's equations are just a piece of them that fall out of it.
The critics actually don't bother me. If anything, they make themselves out to be obviously less informed. And it's not my job to convince the critics, in my opinion. My job is just to do the science and get the data out there and say, this data is real. Now, you help me figure out what it is that it means. And when data comes out that shows that something is not what they want it to be, I'll be right there.
In fact, if anything, I have disproven more things in this field than I have proven to date. You know, the Atacama, the Starkhouse skull and a couple of these so-called events. It sounds like you're saying, look, I haven't come to conclusions.
In fact, what you're doing as the quote unquote skeptic is coming to a non conclusion by saying so and so is not possible. Or then they may modify and say, well, I'm saying so and so is not probable. But then the way that I like to view that is, well, not like to view that there's a problem that I can't solve, which is called the reference class problem, which if anyone studied statistics, this comes up. It's that how do you know the probability of some events? So for example, if I was to say, well, what's the probability that you're going to die this year? And then you can say, well,
Well, it's actually 99%. And then I say, why? Then you say, well, if you look at all the life forms on the planet, most of them are going to die in the next year, because most of them, right. So why are you choosing that as your reference class? So you'd say, okay, okay. So then when someone says, well, aliens, and so on, so on, or extraterrestrial beings, or so on, so on, not possible, they're choosing from a certain reference class. And that I don't know how one justifies that.
So even claims of probability that so-and-so is more probable or less probable, they're dubious to me. Well, the one that always gets me that just shows me how some of the skeptics are almost knee-jerk about it is this notion that, well, if they came from another star system, it would have taken them thousands of years to get here. All right. Well, OK, I have two solutions to that. One, it's a very old universe.
Well, and in that, there's plenty of time for somebody to have come here even by simply conventional means. And that doesn't mean that the people who created the craft that got here are the ones that are here. If you're advanced enough to be able to create your own AI, right? I mean, there's the whole concept of the von Neumann machines. You know this one, right? The von Neumann machine idea. That something arrives, makes more copies of itself,
sends those copies off elsewhere and basically there's this exponential reach even across, you know, across galaxies. And what's to say that when such an object arrives, it doesn't construct from base processes an egg that then is then turned into whatever it is that the von Neumann machine is meant to make and then
I mean, there have been plenty of science fiction stories written about this, that when they get there, the AI then teaches the humans what it is to be a human. There's actually one that's just on Netflix right now, Raised by Wolves. It's a British show, I think. It's pretty good. So, I mean, that's one of them. And then second, it assumes that we know everything about the laws of physics. This notion that, okay, well, they are somehow
As you in your terminology, they are bound by our reference frame. And that our reference is the current laws of understanding of, you know, E equals MC squared. And, you know, when somebody else has different math. Right. And so if one was going by, if one was choosing the reference class to be, well, look, every 60 years or so in physics, our formulation of physics is drastically overturned, or let's say every 80 years or so, then, and we're assuming these beings
If their beings are far greater than 80 years ahead of us, well, right, we impose that they have the same understanding of physics. Also, it's false to say that from the nearest star system, it takes thousands of years to come to us. They can come to us or someone can come to us with special relativity almost instantaneously. It's just that thousands of as far as they're concerned. Yeah, right, right. In their reference frame, right.
I think she was referring to some comments I had made about my frustration listening to experiencers
and actually having some experiences in my immediate family who had no control over the events that were occurring to them. And there's many, many, many examples of this in the literature. And if you imagine that whatever this is has to
communicate with humans through somehow our sensory apparatus in our brain, whether it's, you know, directly, if it's sound based, well, then there's no drug for that. But if it's somehow coming inside through the sensory apparatus, I use the term telefactoring before that, if it's interfering with us in some way,
Why couldn't we make, if we understand enough about how the interference is being generated, maybe there's a drug to stop us or to prevent that from occurring. I mean, there's a lot of science would have to be done around something like that. And I'm not saying it's doable tomorrow or anything like that. But the notion is for the people who feel that they are being inappropriately
interacted with, give them the ability to turn it off. It makes you wonder sometimes, again, this pure speculation, makes you wonder sometimes whether people who are in mental health facilities today, so-called schizophrenics or what have you, who can't seem to function properly in normal society, how many of them have such, again, speculation, have these continued interactions and they just can't turn them off?
That's freaky. Well, I had some experience. I won't go into it here and it's not a phenomenon. Well, maybe I don't think it's a phenomenon experience where I had to go to the, I had to send myself to the hospital because I was typing and then I wasn't typing and something said to me,
You have to come get me because I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not suicidal in the least, but I don't know why would I
And anyway, I went downstairs. I remember the police came first and I told the police officer, I'm not going to try and grab your gun, which already freaks the police officer out. But I'm like, right. I don't know what I'm like. I'm extremely scared right now. So please just just treat me calmly and nicely because I'm in a sensitive state right now. And then they just looked at me like, OK, all right, let's just wait until the to the right. Let's get to the paramedics come. Yeah. And since then, I almost never use the word crazy to refer to someone. Yeah, I think that that's a word of condescension.
The opinions rendered herein are those of the guests, and not necessarily those
stop studying consciousness for a little while because it was putting me into an extremely horrible, horrible, horrible States. And I think that anyone who thinks about consciousness or UFOs even, or the phenomena and takes it seriously that I don't know how they don't send themselves into a spiral of an unhealthy spiral. Well, I think that's a really interesting point because, you know, I have, again, some friends who are, who get so deeply into this.
that they do, I worry sometimes if they're not just creating a mental world for themselves of true fantasy. And so sometimes just get back out into the real world. And again, don't follow it down the rabbit hole because you can very easily, as you say, you can create the problem for yourself.
that has, it's only going on in your head. Um, you know, I, I had, I'll just say this, this is something I haven't talked about ever publicly before. I had an experience in London once, um, that I still don't understand to this day. It was like, you know, I don't know why this always happens at three o'clock in the morning. It's hilarious, but for a lot of people. Um, and I woke up and my whole body was just,
pulsing in with like some sort of electric fire, like nothing I'd ever felt before. Um, and it feel it and, but hear it, hear it and feel it from the tip of my toes to my fingers, whole body. Um, and right as I woke up, it wasn't even words. It was more like a, but it was clear. It was the words. This is how you connect.
And it went on for about 15 seconds. And then I just said, whatever, stop. This has got to stop. And it stopped. So I was clearly awake. I had control over it. But again, where did this voice come from? Maybe it was a dream. The voice was a dream voice of some sort. But the feeling was not. I'd never had any feeling like that before.
And interestingly, the next evening it happened again at about the same time, but only a very fractional sense of it. So I asked actually, I came back and I asked Jacques, what could that have been? And he said, well, maybe it was a Kundalini event or something like that. So I went and read about Kundalini, never heard of it before. It didn't seem to match any of that. But it was an experience, if you will, that I can't explain.
might be have a completely normal physiologic basis. I spoke to, I mean, my next door neighbor is the chairman of psychiatry at Stanford. And so she sees everything. Um, and I spoke with her, uh, yes, he's useful. And, uh, and, uh, so, uh, she says, no, that doesn't fall into any of the frameworks of things that we hear about. That's not what you want to hear. Exactly. I was like, damn, I just, I, maybe you just told me I ate too much Indian food or something.
which I do when I go to London a lot. The first thing I do is I head to the Indian restaurants in Soho. You should ask them. Yeah. Well, they might have a different explanation for it, right? The mystics and yogis of India, I think, are at the root of many of these stories. They're probably the most sophisticated, I would say, of the shamans,
who have explored consciousness in an almost scientific manner. Hear that sound?
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That to me implies that for the people who don't have those connections, if they were standing next to the other people, that they wouldn't experience the phenomenon if it was purely some projection that only right. Have you heard of cases like this? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Jacques will probably be the better person to talk to about it because he knows them specifically, but yeah, there's, there's several cases where people will see something that the other person doesn't. Um, and actually there's, let me try to talk a little bit about that, about that caudate thing.
Because, you know, we've now we've published one paper with a group at Harvard and we've got another one that is coming out that once again, the Caudate, Potain and Basal Ganglia is at the core of many of the, let's say the more mainstream things that we were claiming, even before we had our first publication that the Caudate is the basically is a central node involved in intuitive
and other, well, crystallized and fluid intelligence. And so even though Kit and I had sort of come to this conclusion that it was involved with intuition, and we intuited it, that it was involved with intuition, when you dive into the literature, you find, we found easily now, dozens of papers that others have done from completely mainstream points of view that show the caudate is key
to, I mean, this tiny little thing inside of your brain, this giant brain and this key little thing in the, in the center is sort of like the node. But what we've also done now is we've been doing, uh, what you would call morphometrics. So we've taken the MRIs of people's brains. We've, uh, basically you can use that to basically circle the areas of the brain that people have recognized before. Here's the thalamus.
We can get the size, the volume, the densities. We can even get with the right kind of MRI, you can get what's called tensor flow, which is really the tracks between brain regions that are basically the cables that connect the various regions. And because you know in biology that there's
that there's always a give and take across a system, that if one thing is doing something and it's bigger because of it, there'll be a compensation elsewhere in the system, and that it's the parts all playing together that create the function. Any one point might be a node that's key for, let's say, driving the process overall, but there's no one thing alone.
And so using this notion of networks, we've now been able to show that, well, it's not just the caudate. There's an area over here that when this is large or small, this compensates. So a person, you know, this focus only on the caudate is again, this is now a reinterpretation of a flag in the sand because of what we could do four years ago versus what we can do today. Now today,
We can look at the whole brain, automate what we call the segmentation of the brain. So when Kit did the analysis originally, he did it by hand, and he did it double-blinded with another forensic pathologist, a neurophysiology forensic pathologist.
and he basically said, okay, well, here's the area that has the higher density. And he basically like, it's hard enough to figure out what the area in 2D is, but to basically do that in 3D, you know, on a computer screen where you're drawing volumes and things, that's a very manual process and obviously going to be subject to bias, right? And so you try to know
You make sure that the person who's doing the measurements doesn't know what it is that they're measuring. In other words, are they from a control group or are they from the experiencer or high functioning group that you think? So you want to take the person out. So then we built artificial intelligence algorithms that would basically scan the brain, find the volumes. Segment means draw a circle around them.
I have experience with this in our cancer work, where we do this kind of segmentation all the time in 2D. One of my companies, two of my companies actually, basically create biopsy images with a kind of biological depth that allows us to do segmentation of the cells and into regions and neighborhoods and things. So we're taking the same thing now up to 3D. So automate the segmentation means now we can basically take 200 patients
run it in the program overnight and get all the segmentation volumes out the next day. I mean, previously it took Kit and his, you know, his colleague something like a year to do that. Are you able to do that with the data that you had before, or you need to rescan people in some new manner? Yeah, we, the, um, the data that we had before, uh, and because of the Havana syndrome, um,
Let's say diagnoses of some of these individuals. It complicates, first of all, the cohort. Second, I don't have access to those MRIs anymore because once it started to become clear that this was going to be an important problem, basically Kit put a lockdown on it because me even getting access to these many of these patients and rightly so.
because some of the patients were public and some of those patients didn't like the fact that we were talking about their or as it turned out even though they had given us verbal permission to study it and talk a little bit about it they didn't want to be grouped with you know either the Havana syndrome or other classifications and so I don't want to touch them anymore right and
No, no, no, because let's say that you are publicly known as being such an individual, right? Maybe as being part of the class. And then I make some statement about that. Like I make the statement on what some of the people might be crazy. Well, you know, I mean, first of all, I wouldn't say that. But second of all, second of all, they will feel painted by that brush. So when you're talking about humans and people,
You know, they're not data points. They're people with feelings and feelings that can be very easily hurt. And if you are in any way known for, you know, having been an experiencer, all it takes is one person tweeting out your name and saying you're this or you're that. And, you know, you can more than just ruin somebody's day. And so in the current social media environment, you have to go with entirely anonymized data.
which is, but that's the reason why I turned to this group at Harvard, because they had access to a lot of the databases and they had the interest in the use of MRIs for these kinds of more let's say mainstream studies. And so the first paper that we did, we looked at schizophrenics and autism individuals, because
You know, on the far end in the positive, in the fully positive sense of schizophrenics is that often they can be very creative individuals because their minds, let's say, range a little bit further than others. They see or make connections that others don't. That others don't, exactly. And that's really the heart of intuition, you know, finding disparate data and showing that they actually have a hidden connection behind the scenes.
And then on the other side of the problem are autistic spectral disorder, of which there are many different types of autisms. But certain autistics, as you probably know, can be extremely high functioning. And they have, again, almost not a form of intuition like their, oh, I see things that other people don't. They can come to conclusions
are remarkable, like mathematical conclusions. You can ask them what the square root of some extraordinary number is, and they go like that. How do they do that? What's the process in their brain that allows them to do that? As it turns out, if you look at the MRIs of such individuals, one of the areas of the brain that's called out repeatedly in both of them, but in different places, is the caudate patina.
There are what we would call, at least from our, let's say normative standpoint, defects in their caudate putamen, you know, not like wholesale rupturing or anything like that, but, you know, smaller regions or things that seem to be have gone wrong. So it's a diminution of the caudate putanum or it's an enlargement? Oh, just, just no, neither. Just kind of, let's say dysmorphias. Dysmorphias just kind of like changes. And, um,
You know, and in one sense, if it's any of these things, and I don't know that all of them or any of them are or which of them are, if it's genetically determined, it's evolution trying out something new. Because if it were a successful mutation that helped both that individual and their, let's say, genetically related group succeed or compete better than others, it will be over the course of time selected for.
and in a positive sense. So anyway, we have these groups. And the reason we were doing this is we wanted to, at least as I've been framing it, if so-called experiencers have these experiences, do their brains look normal? Do their brains look more like schizophrenics? Or do their brains look more like autistics?
because one of the things that you as a skeptic or as a doctor might do is if I say, you know, if you Kurt, you know, repeatedly say there's somebody typing through my fingers, um, the doctor, you know, the, you're a psychiatrist interviewing you would want to say, you know, whether or not this person is showing signs of some sort of dissociative disorder. Well, we would like someday to be able to look in a person's brain,
from a purely pathology standpoint and say with an MRI, ah, their brain structure has elements of schizophrenia or my child is not talking as much as they think. We think he might be autistic. Um, so you get an MRI done and you say, ah, yes, they do actually have a brain structure, which is consistent with an autistic, right? So
So you want to exclude that class from the people who are experienced? No, I don't. I don't want to exclude them, but I want to, I mean, it would be nice to know if experiencers fall on that spectrum or a different spectrum altogether. And when you say this spectrum, so are schizophrenics somehow opposite to autistics? No, no, no, no. Good question. As I said it, I realized it was,
So there's a spectrum between normal and autistics and then there's a spectrum between normal and schizophrenics. Hear that sound?
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Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories. In terms of behaviors, right? And so from a materialist standpoint, you like you people like to somehow think is that there's going to be a brain structure, which is correlated with this, if not even a brain structure, let's say just a metabolism of how the brain operates. I mean, you could have
I can have a normal brain and then something can go wrong with my metabolism and that could mimic a pathology that might be tissue-based. So there's tissue-based pathologies and then there's metabolism-based pathologies, right? You know, I mean, so you just think about it like this, like your kidney, a person could be born with a kidney that is for whatever reason, you know, messed up, right? Just not formed correctly.
Um, and then they won't have a kidney function, right? At least one of the two will not be functional correctly. And then later on in life, though, you could be a normal individual, two perfectly functioning kidneys. And, you know, you eat some mushroom you shouldn't have eaten, you know, made its way into your soup and you have, you know, it kills off part of your kidney metabolism problem. Right. So, but it could mimic the same thing.
the end of the day, your kidney is not functioning. Right. And so this, you know, the brain is much more complex than that. But so, but so I wanted these reference sets, so that when we ever, and I'm not sure we're ever going to do it in the short term, when we get around to doing this with experiencers, or frankly, different classes of individuals with different kinds of
extraordinary mental abilities. And with this, I mean things like math, or, you know, music, or etc. You know, are there brain structures associated with these, you know, high functioning individuals that you can call out? Because that tells us, it's not because you want to know what your child is the day they're born, are they going to be musician or mathematician? But you
by doing this, begin to learn about how the brain is actually functioning. So that with these now, what are public data sets that you can download off the net that have been vetted, people have been classified according to their intellectual capabilities, et cetera. Now you can begin to show that certain, and this is one of the papers that we're just submitting, that certain brain structure, organization sizes and tracks between them appear to be
correlated with certain kinds of intelligence or certain kinds of abilities. And we're not the only ones doing it, not by far. But I haven't seen many papers yet that are taking it the same approach that we are with these automated segmentations. But it's so easy to do that I expect there to be an explosion of research in this area.
because it's going to tell us something about how the brain is operating. So to circle back to your Diana Pasulka question about the drug, if there is a tract between one part of a brain and another that seems to be important for a certain function, you know, with enough analysis, maybe there's a way we can target that area to compensate for either a lack or if you find out that one part of the brain
is overworking itself, which is suppressing some other function. Or maybe you turn this one off. So you either turn one on or you turn one off. And you can either do it with a drug. Drugs are harder to do because brain chemistry, as you probably know, is really messy. And a lot of the antidepressants that people use, et cetera, you have to sort of try one out. Does this one work? Does that one work? But maybe transcranial stimulation.
is something that might be effective to enhance certain abilities or to turn off certain other areas. I mean, another example is what's called the default mode network in your brain. The default mode is sort of the organizing principle that keeps all of the other parts of the brain playing together well, and it sits somewhere close to so-called executive function.
Well, drugs like psychedelics, it looks like turn off the default mode network and allow all of the other parts of the brain to to come, you know, rise to the surface and start having a discussion. So, you know, maybe the default node mode network turn off was what happened when you were typing your fingers that somehow because you were so into what you were doing, the default mode turned off and other parts of your brain that, you know,
Let's say have some ask who have who have access to your personality told you I'm in control now. Right. And maybe when I woke up that night in London, it was my default mode network was off and some other part of my brain said, I'm going to do this to you. Right. Or this is, you know, so you always have to keep those kinds of things in the back of your mind as possible explanations and not always think of it as an outside agency.
that is imposing itself on you. Standard psychiatry would like to keep everything in your head and not think of outside agencies. And I think probably 99% of the time it is internal, but 99% still leaves 1% and external possibility. So you just got to keep it in mind.
I was, I was, I don't know why on Netflix or something. I was watching other night, some guy, Tyler Henry, he's a medium. You should go look him up. Uh, he's it's extraordinary what he, what he does. I won't relay it all, but I mean, I sit there going, where's this guy getting this information? He sits down across from somebody and now he's telling them about their life and somebody close to them who died and giving them information that's clearly having an emotional impact on them. And assuming it's not all a big hoax. Yeah. Not cold reading.
It's kind of a cold reading. And where is he getting this information from? And he has a process. And his process is basically scribbling on a book. And it's almost as if by the scribbling process, it's kind of a meditation. He's turning something off. And that allows other information for him to be able to access.
I would love to get a hold of people like that, get MRIs of their brains as they're doing these things, functional MRIs, first of all just to see what structure do they have.
Do mediums, let's say, or claimed mediums have ever been done as far as you know? No, never. Why do you think that is? Because as you say, it sounds like an extremely interesting study that I'm wondering, why has that not? I know of a guy in LA, in fact, I spoke to them, who's funding some of this kind of research. But again, nobody has had the automated segmentation algorithms
to do this. And again, it's not because I don't think people wanted to do it. It's just because, again, the compute power wasn't there before. I mean, the kind of stuff that I do only in 2D couldn't be done before with my pathology cancer research because the compute power wasn't there. First of all, we couldn't get the data. And second, even if we had the data, we wouldn't be able to do anything with it. But now we have the compute power to do it. So that opens new doors.
Again, you should expect a huge flow. But before one runs to try to hit the ball out of the park, you have to do the groundwork and saying, what is normal? What's the normal range of human brain shapes? And even amongst normals, or let's say non... Non-mediums? Well, non-classified as schizophrenic or autistic, or name 10 other mental health issues.
You want to find out what the main classes of pathologies, again, I'm not using the term saying people have a problem with this, before you start running into doing mediums. You can do it, but then you have no reference set, nobody to compare them against to say, oh, it's like this or it's like that.
or it is this and this is different than normal. So that legwork that we're doing now is setting up for a few years from now when both monies will be available, I think, even if I have to fund it myself, or government funding. But sometimes you can get government funding by doing something which is, let's say, normal in mainstream
mental health studies. And then once you've done that, then it's possible to say mediums, I'm going to do people who have, let's say intuition, and you call it intuition, right? You know, a study on intuition and then amongst the cohort, you, you do this, it's not that you're, it's not that you're doing something inappropriate. You're just defining it in a way, frankly, that normal scientists would, they would say, Oh, these mediums are picking up on they're in two
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Putting something from the environment. Fine. Maybe they are. Then let's figure out what it is that's special about their ability to do it.
It might have no paranormal aspect to it whatsoever. I still would want to know how this guy does it. Is this to be taken as a call for people who are mediums to email you or no? No, my God, no, no, I get enough as it is. I'm at some point. Yes, but at some point in the short term, no, I'm not ready for it at all. And I don't even know that I'm the right person to do it. There's I have been contacted by a few scientists who want to do it.
And then they would want access to these databases at that point. But no, I have enough to do earlier. You mentioned Havana syndrome. And when I looked into it, I found it to be terribly murky. I don't know what Havana syndrome is. And so when you're, this is in reference to my research on you with regard to skin water. And then you said that, well, we can classify some people as Havana syndrome. I want to know firstly, what is Havana syndrome? How are you able to classify them as that? It seems like a cloudy definition. And then also,
you concluded that some of, if not all of what was happening at skinwalker from what you've studied with state actors. So I don't know what is meant by state actors and how you came to that conclusion. So there are a couple of questions right there. Yeah. So, um, okay. So, um, right. So this all started of course with, uh, with kit, uh, and you know, there's, he's actually given a, uh, an interview, I think it was on the debrief or somewhere recently.
that's very in depth about sort of the history of the of the project and the timeline. So when we first were looking at these patients that we got this basically a bucket of cases from the basically the defense intelligence access that the doctors didn't know what to do with people who were
So the reason why many of these cases are murky and is actually hidden in a way in the term syndrome. A syndrome is usually a medical terminology for something that has related but disparate
symptomologies. So usually it's like there's 20 things that can fall within this classification system. You're hearing buzzing, headaches, this and that. And you don't have to have all of them. You just have to have enough of them. And you say, you've got this syndrome. We don't, but usually what people are thinking when they say syndrome is that there's probably multiple different
sub pathologies within them, each of which is a distinct and unique group. So for instance, a hundred years ago, or even 80 years ago, you could have cancer and cancer broadly is, you know, is actually has about, you know, 200 different diseases underneath it, right? Blood cancer, you know, colon, et cetera, et cetera. So we actually in the, by around 2015, 2016,
we're calling it what we called at the time, or I should say kit, uh, interference syndrome that people were being interfered with. Uh, and here were the range of things that were happening to them. Uh, and so what as a doctor you do, you basically, you start to determine what the individual symptoms are.
And those individual symptoms then are matched to definitions in what's the best way to do it is called the ICD codes, right? And so the ICD codes are classification system of diseases and related health problems, right? So you have, you have this kind of a skin blistering it's, you know, and it has these, you know, it has infiltration of macrophages in this and this it's ICD code X.
And so what he does is he takes the verbal testimony or his observations of the patient and writes down these ICD codes. And it's a way of just classifying and knowing that you're talking about apples to apples, oranges to oranges kind of a thing. And then right around 2018 or so, the so-called Havana cases were coming up, which Havana, Cuba,
specifically some of the diplomatic personnel were having these buzzing sounds, getting sick, headaches, et cetera. And that kind of went public. And then Kit got a hold of some of the case files related to some of these events and realized that when he matched the ICD codes of the Havana syndrome, they matched or overlapped
with a lot of our cases, right? And then after that, I'm going to put you a thing here. Somebody actually put it in Twitter somewhere to remind me of it. A science group, the so-called Jasons, which are a group of scientists who the government calls upon. I'm not part of the Jasons.
to help them understand some event that occurs and write white papers and things like that. They were brought in to basically do an assessment of this and it became obvious that these cases were probably driven by
I use the term state actor. Some people got bent out of shape because I use that term. It basically means somebody who is an agent of, let's say, Russia or China or something like that, or a rogue element within our own government. State actor implies some sort of funded by a government.
But it could just as easily be, you know, terrorist groups who gained access to, you know, some of these technologies that could cause these things. And if you look at that PDF that I just sent you, there's all kinds of different approaches, acoustic attacks, electromagnetic attacks, microwave. I'll include a link to that in the description as well. Yeah. And so it's not beyond
the capability of anybody in the last 20 years to have these kinds of attack, you know, approaches, vectors or whatever. So when I say it's out of my hands, when it's, well, these are clearly falling under a, what's the right word?
Um, it's falling under the rubric or an umbrella of something which appears to be purely human or terrestrial. Yeah. With intention, with intention. And that has nothing to do with UAPs whatsoever. Now what's interesting is, and this is what the, whoever it was who tweeted this recently, um, yeah, I haven't found the number in here. I'm going to have to go in, but they said about 10 to 15% of the cases, uh, that the adjacent had looked at could not be explained.
under the rubric of Havana syndrome and were as of yet on indeterminate causation. That doesn't mean that they're UAP, right? It just means that, again, the broad bucket of people with strange things happening to them didn't fall under that. Now, there's already people out there trying to pick apart the things that Lou has been talking about with injury.
and the things that Kit talked about as injury. I actually spoke with Lou about it the other day. Some of the cases that Lou was talking about are different than the ones that Kit are talking about. So just because Kit says he's got them all figured out, it doesn't mean that there aren't other cases out there that Lou is aware of
that are different than the ones that Kit is, that have a much more proximal, let's say, UAP relationship. But even Kit, and I talk with him about it fairly frequently, is like, well, look, I can explain it by human technology. I don't need to invoke something else, right? But he's very careful in how he parses his word. I can explain it.
doesn't say it was caused by human technology, you know, at the end of the day, a burn is a burn, whether it's caused by, you know, an alien power generator, or, you know, the back end of a jet flame. Right. So, you know, he's just saying I don't need the fact that these injuries occur does is not a smoking gun for UAP. So, you know, he's, he's being a good scientist about it.
But the only thing that you have to sort of walk away from with it is some of the people say that the proximal cause was an object that showed up. It wasn't they were working in their office at the, you know, at the Havana, you know, American embassy and they got headaches. You know, these were people who were in the field who saw something and something happened to them. The cash laundromat case is probably one of the best cases in point.
I went through this recently released DIRD document from 2009. The DIRD document that I'm referencing is called the Defense Intelligence Reference Document. It's titled Anomalous Acute and Subacute Field Effects on Human Biological Tissues. You can find a link to it in the description.
I went through this recently released dirt document from 2009, went through it not with a fine tooth comb, with a regular comb, let's say I skimmed it. And I want to read a passage to you and I want to know what you make of it. It said based on historical cases, humans have been found to be injured from the exposures to anomalous vehicles, especially airborne and when in relatively close proximity. And then it said, OK, especially airborne, which to me implies that there are some non airborne cases.
So what are these non-airborne type vehicles and what's the difference between the effects on the witnesses from non-airborne versus airborne? I don't know the specifics that are being discussed there. Non-airborne, I don't know, maybe it's the thing has landed. I don't know. I don't know the individual cases, unfortunately. And again, I can't pry them out of kit.
for good reason. For all the reasons that you, you know, he just, he just can't let these cases out. And it doesn't have anything to do with UAP. I couldn't force this stuff. I can't force the information out of some of the cancer patients that the doctors I work with, because they're rightly protecting their privacy. You know, people have great questions, but they think, they think that we can just play
you know, willy-nilly with people's private data. You can't. And I'm not hiding behind it. I'm telling you as much as what I know. But at the end of the day, the specifics will remain, you know, out of reach. I think what people should take away from it is that it's reason to attempt to fund true research, what we would call prospective,
research, uh, prepare to collect the data in, you know, in a going forward manner, as opposed to retrospective analysis of old cases where you're, you're trying to piece together something that happened in the distant past. You prefer perspective. I prefer prospect now retrospective. I mean, we do retrospective studies all the time on cancer. You know, we, with a large enough cohort of individuals of colorectal cancer, for instance,
we can use, you know, biological analysis of the, of the tissue and find signatures of outcome, right? Because retrospective, we know what the, we know what the disease was. We know what the drug that they were given and we know what the outcome was for those patients. And so now what you're doing is you're looking amongst the patients who had a good outcome versus those that had a bad outcome and saying, was there a, was there a tissue structure that predicted the good outcome or the bad outcome?
because that tissue structure was going to be susceptible to the drug, right? To make the drug be more likely to operate and work than not. And so that's just, that's how these perspective, now a perspective study would be, I'm setting up to do this and I'm going to collect the data knowingly, and I'm going to create inclusion exclusion criteria that bring the right kinds of patients in. And then I, so I'm, no, I'm working with apples and apples.
You work with retrospective usually to form hypotheses of what it is that you want to do and then you prove the retrospective conclusions with a prospective new study that's tailored specifically to look at the things that you think are important. Are there any retrospective or prospective studies
that you know about on psychedelics and UFOs or psychedelic potentially summoning certain beings via some meditative technique. So I, again, I was talking to this, this group in LA that are doing they're serious scientists that have a potentially wealthy benefactor to, to do just this. I mean, I'm not doing the study with them. They just called me to get my perspective on it. And so I hope that they go ahead and do it because
There's lots of people willing to partake in those kinds of studies. There's frankly no NIH program that's ever going to be funded in the near future for doing this kind of stuff for all the reasons we know. So a wealthy and interested benefactor is really the next best thing for that.
Do psychedelics have any role to play in the caudate-putamen connection? And by the way, is this a red herring? Because earlier you mentioned, well, just because it's overgrown here, it could imply a lesser growth somewhere else. And that could be what's actually responsible. Yeah, I mean, or it could limit. I mean, if you're, you know, if you, it's like a fuel injector, you know, if you, if you limit the amount of fuel going into one part of the brain, then it doesn't matter how good the upstream process is, if there's a filter,
It never makes it the rest of the way. Now, where and how the, let's say DMT or these other psychedelics operate and what they do to the brain, I haven't seen anything yet on it. The problem is that these are, of course, almost all scheduled drugs, meaning they have limitations on their uses. And I
do know of, there's a guy at Stanford and there's a guy, I think at Johns Hopkins. Again, I was asking my, um, my, uh, um, psychiatry chair neighbor about this for exactly the reasons you're asking, you know, who's doing these studies right now. Um, and, uh, the guy in LA, uh, is actually a very well known doctor, uh, in this area. Uh, so he's associated with the program, with that program that they're trying to run.
And I think the brain morphometry tools that we're building will be useful to these individuals. And the data sets that we're producing will be useful to these individuals. And how DMT or psilocybin or LSD work into it, I don't know. But I'll be fascinated to see the results.
Do you surmise that psychedelics are acting as a removal of filters and allowing in senses, sorry, and allowing in sensory information? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. And then this seems to me to be a component of one generating it from within one's own mind. And then there is possibly the other element of one allowing in information that wouldn't allow, and then they have to mingle in some manner. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I've said this before that whatever people think electrosensory
whether it's real or not. Eventually, wherever the information comes in, it has to overlay onto the normal, or it seems to be overlaying onto the normal senses. People see things, or they hear things, or they feel something emotionally, or some mixture of the above.
So you have an internal screen in your head. You can close your eyes and you can see things. When you dream, you see it in even more stark clarity. So whatever the so-called antenna might be, it somehow sits on top of the sensory system that you already have and
overlays the information into that. If we are purely materialistic beings, now you can start asking questions about consciousness. Maybe it has nothing to do with the brain at all, but wherever our consciousness resides out there in the 23rd dimension or whatever, that all the information is going on back there. All the passage of information is going on back there. And then it's basically moving it back down into the neurons.
And so we might never find the antenna because the antenna actually sits out there. Maybe consciousness, there's a great physicist, I think, and I have, I should find his... Is it George Hammaroff? No, no, it's a different, he's a German physicist from the 1950s, 60s or so. He came up with this physics of, you know, one of these grand theories of physics. And basically,
He's not well accepted by many people, but he's still followed by some. This notion that structures of physicality can be created, that he basically said that at a certain level of complexity of a structure that's formed, you can instantiate a self-perpetuating object, an entity, that he said is for all intents and purposes consciousness or the soul. So that his
theory, his hypothesis, his premise was basically that evolution and brain structure, et cetera, the purpose of it was to basically create the flowering of an object that he would call consciousness that could then exist independently of the object that created it. It's sort of like was the that the body is a birth is a birth vessel for the formation. And he said, at least, I mean, there's lots of
Interesting.
While Gary is going to get the book, off air I asked Gary about the connection between blood types and the phenomenon and he said there is none, as far as he could tell. We also weren't able to get into meditation and the phenomenon on air, so we'll save it for next time. If you're interested in someone who investigates UAPs and is an experienced Buddhist meditator, then I recommend you visit Christina Gomez's YouTube channel. There's a link in the description. Yeah, this is something that Jacques gave me.
I just had lunch with him yesterday up at his house, and he's got these book collections sitting around him, and I just get this lust in my heart for the book collection. So anyway, this is... Ludwig, Ludwigger? Illebrand von Ludwigger. And I mean, I don't understand the math. I don't even pretend to. But... Is he still alive as far as you know? No, I think he's dead.
But so basically this is like almost this is the end and I don't well, according to this theory is not that way. Yeah, according to this theory. But basically this structure that he draws here at the end is a visual representation of of how when a certain structure is created at the top of it through these levels of organization, consciousness would form because of it.
and that then you could take away the underlying structure that formed it, and then this would continue to exist independently. Which is interesting, the reason why I like this, and he didn't really talk about this, he talks about it in the context of biology, but if it's right, it means you could create
an artificial intelligence, which was in and of itself, um, would could become conscious. You know, most, um, you know, scientists working in AI never think that we will have the ability to create a conscious. I mean, that anything that we create, uh, that looks conscious is just a darn good simulation of, of, uh, you know, it would pass the turning test.
but it would just be a darn good simulation. Uh, but it's not really conscious. Um, so, you know, it's so therefore it has no rights as far as human rights, as far as where, you know, it's a big argument that's been played out in science fiction for, for many years. What this guy is basically saying, I don't know anything about the math. I just find it interesting. I get interested in these kinds of ideas. Yeah.
that you could create an object. Humans might someday be able to, without using biology, but using purely materialistic approaches, build a sufficiently complex machine that creates an object with consciousness and a soul. That's fascinating. Go ahead. Did he say whether or not this soul would survive
for an indeterminate amount of time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But yeah, that's what he's saying. Yeah. Take away the you can take away the thing that caused it and it lives unto itself. Now, now a lot of reason I'm asking about the time aspect is because like, imagine a flower, then it gives rise to some pollen. Well, that pollen lives independent of the flower, but the pollen also at some point dies. So I'm wondering, okay, just because it gives birth, it doesn't mean that it's indefinite. No, it doesn't mean it's indefinite. It means it needs a certain structure to, to create that. Okay.
I'll send you a copy of it if you want. It's fascinating. Again, I don't know the math and a lot of physicists just dismiss him outright. But as with any of these theories, there's a little often cult-like following of people who are absolutely determined to
Gary and I spoke briefly over email afterward and Gary said the following to me with the caveat of letting the audience know that this is not what Gary actually thinks is quote-unquote true, it's simply interesting mathematics that expands one's thinking on the matter.
Look at the last sentence of this document. Fascinating emergent property, he claims. Again, I don't know if this is true or anything, it's just fun to think about. The quote is, Moreover they can continue to exist autonomous as persona without material reconnection. Basically, consciousness or a soul, once created, can exist independently.
I haven't done much research on this, but what are your thoughts on remote viewing, since we're on a similar tangent?
Well, I think it's like that guy, Tyler Henry, that I just spoke about on that Netflix show. Sweet guy, he's like 27 or so. And it's a form of coordinate remote viewing. That thing that Jacques basically came up with, the notion that the coordinate is really just a focusing device.
It's not the means and it's not even the, the position of the object. You could be any series of numbers. It's just something that you use to link to the, to the, whatever it is you're trying to see. So this guy, Tyler Henry uses objects from the person that he's supposedly seeing. And, uh, you know, it's not that it has any,
The Sun released a 1500 page document or a set of documents related to UFOs
Now, I'm not sure if you had a chance to go through it, even with the cursory glance, but if you did, what stood out to you and what do you think that what made someone like you, even you say, wow, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Um, well, some of the cases that Kit was talking about, most of what was in there that the sun, uh, focused on, I haven't read the 1500 pages. I, you know, um, my students would probably kill me if I spent my time reading 1500 pages of somebody else's stuff rather than the papers I should be editing.
Is there something that people should be focusing on that they aren't? That you're wondering, man, people, you're missing this. This is extremely crucial.
whether it's in the sun or whether it's in all of these UFO reports that we've heard about. Well, let's separate the biology versus the materials aspect of it. What's missing is a focus on, I say this many times, the data collection. Bringing to bear real science efforts
at doing it and, and pointing out how little funding is going into it. It's being done on a, you know, literally out of people's pockets. So the focus needs to be on talking to friends, family, you know, uh, political representatives, et cetera, to say, would you please fund this and help us understand it because the questions aren't going away.
So, you know, fund either the biology studies or fund the, you know, the material studies that are being done or should be done. I mean, I've talked about the stuff that I've spent money on personally myself and my time on it. You know, to do it right, you need to bring in for the materials, you need to bring real metallurgists
instrumentation that costs in the millions. You know, it's, and you can rent this stuff, you don't have to buy it, you can rent time on somebody else's machines. But then you still need people to analyze the data. So, you know, getting together, here's what I would love to see somebody set up is, you know, set up a consortium of people who have statistical analysis and metallurgical
analysis that if I create the data, they'll help me analyze it. And they'll do it in a, in a protected data, um, you know, CDA, you know, somebody drives, you know, writes a, you know, confidentiality disclosure agreement so that you, you get to, you work on the data first and it, you know, the day after you collect the data, somebody doesn't go to Twitter and put out some preliminary garbage or say something about the data.
that I as the principal investigator know is not true. There's nothing worse than a preliminary data put out that somebody else says, well, you said this last year, now you're saying this here. So I would like to see somebody make an effort to create some sort of an analytics group that people like me could turn to to say,
Here is the data. Help me understand this. Because I don't have the time to do it. And so that would be great, whether it's biology or materials. So I want people to stop talking about and arguing about cases that happened long ago and start doing something prospective. Helping people do the analysis.
Mick West, for all of the times that I, you know, kind of joke with him about his, his seagulls. With seagulls? Oh, online, he basically saying that some of the observations were seagulls and stuff like this. I mean, it's just ridiculous. But I mean, at least he has reached out and done some of the analysis, even though I think his analysis is faulty.
This is what scientists do. They argue with somebody else's analysis, which is a good thing, right? Because, you know, at least, at least somebody's trying. Um, you know, and others then came out and said, okay, well, the gimbal video, you analyzed it wrong, Mick. Sorry. You know, it's, you know, uh, so we need, we need sort of, uh, an organization that somebody can turn to, to vet the data for us.
No, and I mean, I'm involved with with Lou and others in trying to set something like that up. You know, because if no one else is going to do it, do it yourself. So we'll set it, we'll set something like that up. And that's independent from the Galileo project? Well, no, there's there's, I mean, the Galileo, one of the problems that when I'm now part of the Galileo project, and they're doing some, you know, amazing stuff,
is making sure that we aren't that they have a clear set of goals and but those goals are ever expanding because of course they're looking into some of the societal implications and things underneath and behind it so whatever it is that we create I don't want to overlap with stuff that they're already doing so you know that's why it's a good thing for me to be part
of both of these operations as we get them off the ground. What I was going to say before is that to speak in defense of someone like Mick West is that I happen to like people, even if I'm not saying Mick West is biased, but imagine that he is that he just doesn't believe the conclusion that these that it's non terrestrial. I happen to like speaking to people who are biased only because they're the ones who are most motivated to find some argument that you would not have found. And sometimes their arguments are great.
Yeah. No, I don't mind him. I totally respect him. I brought him up primarily because he at least is trying. I wish in his, let's say in his Twitter profile, he basically says he's a debunker. And I don't like the term debunking because it basically says you're coming in looking to disprove
People have said that I'm a debunker. I'm not. I just want to explain. I come in with an open mind on either side because I have, as everybody knows, seen things that I personally can't explain or experience things that I personally can't explain and they don't have any conventional explanation. I'm biased because if anything, I'm trying to prove to myself that what I saw
or experienced was not the easy thing that I could reach to to say it was a UAP or some sort of non-human intelligence communicating with me. So I have a bias, but I would be perfectly happy to be proven 100% wrong that any of this stuff is
What are some of the experiences you mentioned that you haven't mentioned elsewhere? Because I'm sure people who have followed you. Oh, well, no, I mean, it's known that I saw a craft as a young boy went right over my head.
Um, you know, 30, 40 feet above me, right at tree level. Um, I had no idea what it was when it happened. I didn't say, Oh, there's a UFO. It was silent. Silent. Yeah. Um, and you know, it's, it was only sometime in my twenties or thirties that it sort of clicked. I said, well, that was what you saw. Cause it always has been with me, you know, and the reason it was with it is with me. Cause I went around to the,
other people in the neighborhood to whom I was delivering papers at the time. And I said, did you know, did you see this? And I explained it to them. And they just sort of looked at me like, okay, kid, here's your paper money, you know, go away. So that's, you know, that's what drives me, which is why I would
you know, call myself an experiencer, because I'm looking to explain what it is that I saw. You know, it isn't to me proof of anything. But it's, it's to me something that shook me to my core. At the time, did it when you were a kid, even? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was just like this. How do you explain it? You just say, what was that?
So you remember when we talked about that there are some people who experienced seeing some phenomenon or some element. And there are some people who didn't who were right beside them. Now, in that were there some people or was it just an individual who saw and then others didn't? What I'm asking for was in was there inter subjective agreement between at least more than one person? Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In some of the cases. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the the the Council Bluffs case is the one in point where there were
like three individuals from different vantage points around the town, if council Bluffs, that all saw the same thing, a glowing blinking object that then dropped something bright to the ground. And it was bright because it was molten metal. And then they all arrived at the same time, pretty much. And the police showed up thinking it was a plane crash. And there was a blob. It was a giant blob of molten metal on the ground. And we got the pictures and everything.
Unfortunately, those Polaroids go faint over time. Actually, if there's a person out there who knows how to restore old Polaroids to enhance the original colors that was there, it would be nice for them to reach out to me because we have the original Polaroids.
Earlier you mentioned and many people mentioned this that it may be that there is some component of projections when it comes to UAPs and then it can't be all that because like you said, there's some physical evidence and then I was thinking I've heard this from many other people that depending on the culture at a specific time, the beings if there are beings, they make themselves comprehensible to that culture
Well, there's two kinds of projections. We think of projection in terms of our
you know, let's say current understanding a projection of something on a on a 2d movie screen, right? Now, you can have sort of a holographic projection, which is something which appears to be there. And, you know, as it is in and of itself emanating or reflecting light, there's a projection of something potentially into your head that makes you think you see something. But, you know, again, if you're talking about a technology that's
millions of years ahead of us, maybe it can project material objects. Jacques uses the term often, the phenomenon can take a hold of a volume of space and make a reality real. It can literally change space and manifest material objects. That's a form of a projection.
At that point, does it still retain the word projection? Because if something was created here, then it persists in multiple view. Well, I mean, the question is, is what is created actually functional here in our reality? Or is it just a piece of plastic that's moved from behind the scenes and made to look like it does something? So for instance, let's talk about the so-called craft that people see. I mean,
I would like to think that there's an object with a physics and a physics that can be understood from sitting here in our 3D, 4D world. But maybe, let's say, there's a multi-dimensional reality and whatever it is that is driving these objects sits somewhere else. And it's basically something that it pokes into our reality
and it's moving it from elsewhere. It's made to look like it's moving here, but it has no functionality here. The functionality doesn't reside in our side of the veil. The functionality is elsewhere. So, you know, we might get one of these objects, let's say there's a crashed craft or beings or whatever, and they are no more real than
Okay, let me see if I get this analogy. So in there's this flat line, which I'm sure you do. And so if you're three, just for the people wondering what the heck that is, is if we're at least ostensibly 3D. And then if you look at your paper, if you were to touch your paper, and there was an ant on your paper that could only see what's on the paper, then all of a sudden, it would just see your fingernail and wonder what the heck is happening. And you can remove it and it would just
If you were to now move it through their flat land, left and right,
they would see no, nor even if they were to look at the object where it is, right, the pieces of plastic that are interfacing in their 2D, they would see no visible means of propulsion. The propulsion is your hand, moving it left, right and center. So imagine that this is what's going on here, that there's something else that's, the motility, the functionality is sitting elsewhere.
and then what is here is just like a projection which is being held at arm's length and the purpose even looking at this which is a light right at the bottom there's just a base that's black and they would right they would have a hard time coming up with the purpose of that based on the base so you know I think we have to be prepared for some disappointments in a way because if if what I just said is is true we might get a hold of some of these things and never figure out how they work because
The engine is not here. The driving force is not here. But it is still a puppet which is used to interact with, or in Jacques' sense of the term, is the control feature, the control function, the control system. It still gets us to do stuff. We still dance around like a bunch of monkeys when we see this stuff.
Its purpose, whatever that might be, is fulfilled. The monkeys saw us and then the monkeys will infer that there is an intelligence behind it. And that's all we ever wanted them to do, to think bigger, to explore the notion that they're not alone and maybe to learn how to do this themselves someday. Yeah.
Are there people from the government who watch every one of your appearances, perhaps even watch the appearances of people like Lou, to make sure that you're not revealing too much?
And so who are these people? Are there multiple individuals as a department? Do they tap your phone? No, well, I just got to be careful what I say. I mean, I have been told I should make the assumption that the things that I say are being watched, not just by US, but by others. And so obviously I try to be careful. I try to hold all confidences that I'm
either sworn to or agreed to, you know, as best as possible. At one level, I can't worry about these people, right? I mean, I, I, I've got to just do what it is that I'm doing. Uh, until somebody tells me not to do something, I'm going to do it. You know, I'm not, you know, or if it's obvious I shouldn't be doing, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to put myself or my family in danger, but I have, I've not felt that way. Uh,
You know, I mean, I'm not so much worried about the government. I'm worried about there's any of a number of people who are, let's say, unstable out there in the world, who have nothing to do with the government, who will be convinced that I'm doing something that I should be stopped. You know, I'm part of some grand conspiracy or I know somebody asked a question on that thread about, am I being paid for by something that I haven't disclosed as if I
as if there's an agenda driving my every word. No, not yet at least. Gary, thank you very much. Thank you so much. We've had this sort of personal, you know, what are our mental issues or attempts to be more productive.
Uh, you know, and, you know, I also want you to know, and people to know that like, luckily, luckily man, like I'm a, I mean, I'm generally an extremely psychologically stable person. Some of those experiences that I mentioned recently have set me on edge. So I'm so hypersensitive now that I wouldn't call myself stable right now, but generally I am, and I'm lucky for that. And you seem like you're stable as well. So that's good despite your experiences. Supposedly. Yeah.
Some of my colleagues might not agree, but that's okay. All right, man. Take care and I will ask you for that book if you don't mind. Well, you can send me the title and I'll get it. I'll send you the title. Yeah. Okay. All right. Take care of my friend. Thanks so much, Kurt. Okay. Bye bye. Goodbye.
So now the podcast is over. It's generally frustrating. Maybe you're experiencing the same, where there's a dearth of content, new information when it comes to the UFO scene, and it feels like plenty of ground is being trodden and then retrodden. And so for me, one of the reasons that I focus on the physics and the consciousness is because there's plenty that's new and even inspirational there. That is, it inspires some other ideas for
possible connections to UAPs. And if you're watching the Toe Podcast primarily for the UFO content, I recommend that you at least check out one of the physics videos or one of the consciousness videos. There's plenty that's rich there, that's new, that is inextricably tied or may, let's not say inextricably tied, but has implications for the phenomenon. However, at the same time, I'm not dismayed whenever someone goes over the same ground
repeatedly because there's plenty that can be gained by viewing some phenomenon from slightly different perspectives. So for example, even when someone publishes a peer-reviewed paper with data, it's often still insightful to interview the scientist and find out, well, what worked and what didn't work, and what data was excluded, and what data is extraneous, and why do you think that it's extraneous, and that gives you insight into the initial data despite the data being the same.
Believe I spoke about this on the podcast with Jordan Peterson, where he invited me onto his platform. I was blessed enough for that to have occurred. And so I'll leave a link in the description if you'd like to hear more. One should also know I'm undecided as to how much I'm going to be continuing to explore UFOs alone rather than UFOs as connected to physics and consciousness. However, one of the reasons why one should explore despite the ground being the same that they're covering is that
At least in mathematics and physics, it's known that one can almost never investigate something rudimentary too much, that there's often extreme insight to be gained, that when you think you understand something as simple as, let's say, a compact space, then Terry Tao comes out with an article and you realize, okay, my understanding is deep and despite me thinking was at the maximum that it could be. Same with Kalmagorov, who's famous for Kalmagorov complexity. So you'd think he'd come out with articles about what is complicated,
He had an whole essay. A whole essay just on the equal sign. And you thought, well, I understand what the equal sign is until you read Kolmogorov's essay. So plenty can be gleaned just from retrotting the same ground. I understand that at the same time. Okay. Thank you so much for watching. And as I said in the beginning, there's an April Fools video called Ranking of Toes or the Ranking of the Toes. I recommend you watch that if you want to get a different flavor on this channel. I put plenty of time and effort into that and people seem to enjoy it.
So hopefully you will as well. Plenty of jokes made about some of the figureheads in the UFO scene. Take care. The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash C-U-R-T-J-A-I-M-U-N-G-A-L. That is Kurt Jaimungal. It's support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you.
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"text": " Florida and Georgia. Most importantly, all the transactions on the app are fast, safe and secure. Download the PricePix app today and use code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Spotify to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. PricePix. It's good to be right. Must be present in certain states. Visit PricePix.com for restrictions and details."
},
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"text": " Just a note, if you haven't seen the April Fool's video, the ranking of the toes, then click on the link in the description as I placed quite a significant amount of effort into it and people seem to enjoy it, which is always a delightful match."
},
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"text": " Gary Nolan is an immunologist, an inventor, a business executive, and a professor at the Stanford School of Medicine. Today, we talk about subjects ranging from nootropics to the potential physical evidence of intelligent life being behind what are the reports of UFOs, including the adverse effects of interacting with the phenomenon,"
},
{
"end_time": 174.155,
"index": 8,
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"text": " which was just declassified in late March 2022. Click on the timestamp in the description if you'd like to skip this intro. My name is Kurt Jaimungal. I'm a Torontonian filmmaker with a background in mathematical physics dedicated to the explication of the variegated terrain of theories of everything."
},
{
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"text": " from a theoretical physics perspective, but as well as analyzing consciousness and seeing its potential connection to fundamental reality, whatever that is. Essentially, this channel is dedicated to exploring the underived nature of reality, the constitutional laws that govern it, provided those laws exist at all and are even knowable to us. If you enjoy witnessing and engaging with others on the topics of psychology, consciousness, physics, etc., the channel's themes,"
},
{
"end_time": 216.084,
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"text": " Then do consider going to the Discord and the subreddit, which are linked in the description. There's also a link to the Patreon, that is patreon.com slash KurtGymungle, if you'd like to support this podcast, as the patrons and the sponsors are the only reasons that I'm able to have podcasts of this quality and this depth."
},
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"text": " Given that I can do this now, full-time, thanks to both the patrons and the sponsors' support. Speaking of sponsors, there are two. The first sponsor is Brilliant. During the winter break, I decided to brush up on some of the fundamentals of physics, particularly with regard to information theory, as I'd like to interview Chiara Marletto on constructor theory, which is heavily based in information theory."
},
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"text": " Now, information theory is predicated on entropy, at least there's a fundamental formula for entropy. So, I ended up taking the brilliant course, I challenged myself to do one lesson per day, and I took the courses Random Variable Distributions and Knowledge Slash Uncertainty. What I loved is that despite knowing the formula for entropy, which is essentially hammered into you as an undergraduate,"
},
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"end_time": 282.517,
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"text": " It seems like it comes down from the sky arbitrarily. And with Brilliant, for the first time, I was able to see how the formula for entropy, which you're seeing right now, is actually extremely natural. And it'd be strange to define it in any other manner. There are plenty of courses, and you can even learn group theory, which is what's being referenced when you hear that the standard model is predicated on U1 cross SU2 cross SU3. Those are Lie groups, continuous Lie groups. Visit brilliant.org slash totoe to get 20% off an annual subscription."
},
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"text": " And I recommend that you don't stop before four lessons. I think you'll be greatly surprised at the ease at which you can now comprehend subjects you previously had a difficult time grokking. The second sponsor is Algo. Now, Algo is an end-to-end supply chain optimization software company with software that helps business users optimize sales and operations, planning to avoid stockouts, reduce return and inventory write downs while reducing inventory investment."
},
{
"end_time": 336.664,
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"text": " It's a supply chain AI that drives smart ROI headed by Amjad Hussain, who's been a huge supporter of this podcast since near its inception. In fact, Amjad has his own podcast on AI and consciousness and business growth. And if you'd like to support the Toe podcast, then visit the link in the description to see Amjad's podcast because subscribing to him or at least visiting supports the Toe podcast indirectly. Thank you and enjoy. Of all the pieces of evidence that you've seen that you've heard of,"
},
{
"end_time": 365.52,
"index": 16,
"start_time": 337.005,
"text": " hard pieces of evidence that you can disclose. Which one stands out as most extraordinary and why is it not ordinary? Well, of the pieces that I've seen, there's the materials that have supposedly been dropped from craft. They're ordinary in some ways, but they're extraordinary from the standpoint if you ask why."
},
{
"end_time": 392.278,
"index": 17,
"start_time": 365.896,
"text": " Why would somebody, as in the case of the Council Bluffs incident, why would something drop some form of molten metal that has iron and a few other impurities, as opposed to anything? I mean, I suppose I would say that anything that you have, which is, again, allegedly dropped off of some of these objects, is in and of itself extraordinary."
},
{
"end_time": 420.879,
"index": 18,
"start_time": 393.029,
"text": " because you have to ask the question, okay, well, what is it about this? Should the event be real? That is somehow linked to the formation of either a power supply or a propulsion or something else. I mean, for all we know, it's the side product of their entertainment system. So, you know, when you get something like this,"
},
{
"end_time": 448.882,
"index": 19,
"start_time": 421.323,
"text": " you would perhaps like it to be related to, you know, something extraordinary about the craft or the object's mobility or function, but it might have a completely side use that is unrelated to any of the above. What I find extraordinary particularly, let's say, about the Council Bluffs is that I know of at least three other events that are similar."
},
{
"end_time": 478.49,
"index": 20,
"start_time": 449.514,
"text": " in terms of material that was dropped and in case one of them is here in California where the I haven't had a chance to analyze it directly but at least visually it's the same. So you know when it comes to science when you have two examples of something similar it's more than a coincidence when you have those kinds of things. You know the other one that is both"
},
{
"end_time": 506.442,
"index": 21,
"start_time": 478.814,
"text": " extraordinary as well as ordinary is the the event in Trinity that Jacques Vallee wrote about and the object which was supposedly taken you know from the from the craft by these two children that you know I've had it here at my house several times with Jacques brings it over and we you know we talk about we don't need it because it's"
},
{
"end_time": 536.869,
"index": 22,
"start_time": 506.886,
"text": " But it's just, it's just sort of like a point of reference to have it here as we're talking with a group of other people about it. In that it, you know, for all intents and purposes, and there's pictures of it on the web, for all intents and purposes, it looks very normal. And if anything, crafted in a, in a old style way by a kind of what's called sand casting of molten metal, there's a"
},
{
"end_time": 565.845,
"index": 23,
"start_time": 537.415,
"text": " process. It's called sand casting, I think. And so, you know, either it's something which was, I mean, this is speculation on Jacques part at some point, is that, you know, there was there had been an actual object on the on the graph, but by the time the that had been replaced by this thing, for some reason, we don't know why, but that when the children came on board,"
},
{
"end_time": 594.548,
"index": 24,
"start_time": 566.186,
"text": " It had already, whatever was actually there had already been removed and then this had been put there. It was the only thing that they could grab and pull off. So they ran with it. So it might have, you know, for instance, absolutely nothing to do with the craft itself or the object itself. Uh, and has been something that the, the, you know, for some reason, the department of defense who got there first decided they just needed to put there as a placeholder. I don't know. So,"
},
{
"end_time": 621.664,
"index": 25,
"start_time": 594.77,
"text": " I mean, but it's extraordinary in and of itself that somebody, if they took something off the craft, the DOD, let's say there had been something there, they took something off. They felt they had to replace it with something, if that makes sense. So firstly, what do you mean when you said that we don't need it? You said Jack would bring it over, but you don't need it. Oh, we, we, we don't need to have it here every time we have a discussion about it is what I mean. But you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 648.131,
"index": 26,
"start_time": 622.227,
"text": " It's just the personalities involved like to have it almost like a reference point sitting in the middle of the table as we talk about it. Okay, and so for those who are unfamiliar with this story, there are two children who watched a craft crash, is that correct? And then there were some beings and then actually when I was speaking to Jacques, which I called him Jack before, but Jacques, we didn't get into what happened to those aliens. What happened to them?"
},
{
"end_time": 677.585,
"index": 27,
"start_time": 649.428,
"text": " Well, I mean, if you read the book, there was, they were observed over the course of several hours, as it was relayed by the children, sort of walking around outside of the craft in a kind of a, in a tizzy, essentially, frantically. Yeah, like, ordinarily, they were moving in fits,"
},
{
"end_time": 705.265,
"index": 28,
"start_time": 677.944,
"text": " Yeah. And so that in and of itself was interesting. And then they were no longer there at some point, at least when the Defense Department or the Army people arrived. But there was another event because the children who took the object hid it"
},
{
"end_time": 735.06,
"index": 29,
"start_time": 705.93,
"text": " in a shed, as I recall, on their father's property and one of their father's property under the floorboards. And for some reason, the kids were in there at night. And this is one of the really weird, how do you, how do you put this in a materialism or a materialistic kind of context that they said that the, the beings, whatever they were, walked through the wall into the,"
},
{
"end_time": 766.067,
"index": 30,
"start_time": 736.237,
"text": " into the shed and pointed towards where the object was. Okay, well, that's strange, right? First of all, because to me, at least the object looks very ordinary. It looks like it's something was probably, you know, taken from some farm tractor or something. And, you know, I would love it if the people would look online. Overlaying an image, you know, but no, I mean, so overlay the image. Yeah. And"
},
{
"end_time": 794.735,
"index": 31,
"start_time": 766.288,
"text": " Um, you know, can anybody identify this? You know, there've been things like said, Oh, this is a piece of a, of something from a windmill. Well, that's, that's nice speculation, but show me. And I would love for somebody to show me that that's what it is. Because again, to me, it looks ordinary. Um, but if it is ordinary, then why would the children say that later the being seemed to come and point at it as if it was something important and"
},
{
"end_time": 823.865,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 794.94,
"text": " It comes back to that thing that both John Keele and Jacques have said, is that after these events occur, there are these reinforcement efforts that seem to go on. Like the men in black show up the day after and tell you not to do something, not to say something. Well, what's going to make you remember something more than if somebody shows up and tells you not to remember it? So again, it's that kind of"
},
{
"end_time": 852.79,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 824.377,
"text": " strangeness associated with it that, you know, many so-called skeptics, rightfully, and as Jacques has said, because I think, frankly, he's the king of skeptics, said, this is absurd. You know, how does it make sense? What do we make from something like this? So anyway, that's those are the two that that I'm most interested in. You know, then I guess a third one would be the the Bismuth material."
},
{
"end_time": 878.848,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 853.797,
"text": " that Hal Puthoff talks about a lot around the wave guide. You know, I've looked at it and I've heard both sides of the argument as to whether it's, you know, the byproduct of just a normal human smelting process versus is it something real? I don't know. So I guess only further testing will determine. There's other materials like the one from San Augustine"
},
{
"end_time": 907.961,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 879.275,
"text": " that again, I have looked at now several of them, not all of them, but several of them. And they're completely explainable. And we'll be publishing some papers on those as well. People who think that there's something called alien honeycomb. It's not. It's something from a 1940s process. And that's, if anything, a bit of a, that's a bit of a news release, if you will. We haven't talked about that publicly, but we know absolutely."
},
{
"end_time": 931.442,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 908.353,
"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. Now what to do with your unwanted bills? Ever seen an origami version of the Miami Bull?"
},
{
"end_time": 956.937,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 931.92,
"text": " Do you have any biological samples in your possession? No. I don't. I don't."
},
{
"end_time": 986.903,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 957.278,
"text": " I was offered some biological samples. These are some of the so-called implants. But when I started asking questions about the provenance of these things, and the first one was, well, where's the consent forms from the patient? Because you can't just go running willy-nilly with pieces of people's bodies or things out of people's bodies that, first of all, don't have consent forms."
},
{
"end_time": 1014.633,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 987.585,
"text": " Second of all, and that's for both HIPAA as well as other reasons I'm about to tell you, which is that, you know, let's say that somebody takes a nodule out of somebody's arm. Well, who's to say it's not cancer? Did you send it to a pathologist for review? None of these things were done with most of these things. And I realized that the person who realized who took out some of these things was themselves a doctor, but they probably should have known better."
},
{
"end_time": 1041.886,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 1015.435,
"text": " you know, because if these days something goes wrong and that person gets cancer, even if it wasn't, that thing wasn't cancer, somebody could quite rightly ask you, did you test that? How do you know that that wasn't a initiating cancer and that the person died of a metastasis? So you're at fault. So the materials that I were sent was sent,"
},
{
"end_time": 1072.108,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 1042.261,
"text": " at one point after I asked that question within a few days, I sent it right back and said, no, I mean, would I love to be able to get it handle on biological materials? Absolutely. Because I can go through all of the testing that I know how to do. In fact, I'm probably better at biological materials than I am at metals. Are you able to test if it's cancer? Like you are you able to test now, even though it's later? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, as long as as long as it's been preserved,"
},
{
"end_time": 1099.838,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1072.329,
"text": " I can't, I sent it back. But you know, the other thing is that you, you can't, if I don't have a consent form from the patient and in some cases, some of these, let's say objects are, are so old, if you will, uh, that there is no consent form. And then you'd have to go to the family members to get consent because the people are public and often, and the names are public."
},
{
"end_time": 1128.439,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1100.333,
"text": " And, you know, the families might not want to be dismerged. So, you know, you just got to be very careful with all of this stuff. You know, and I think I learned it, I learned this most through the, the Atacama exercise. That even though I didn't think it was, I thought that it was probably like a monkey or something like that. When we found out conclusively that Atacama was human, well, that's when the"
},
{
"end_time": 1157.841,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1128.575,
"text": " ethicists descended en masse to say, well, we you should have known. Well, you didn't know, first of all. But secondly, you know, there were no consents from family, which was, you know, that's right. But, you know, I didn't take the thing and I didn't I didn't know what it was at the beginning. But now people know conclusively and they can do what they want with that data. And I think give the"
},
{
"end_time": 1183.524,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1158.114,
"text": " That's an interesting point."
},
{
"end_time": 1212.671,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1183.831,
"text": " walking into an area thinking that you're doing good and then realizing the truth and then realizing you perhaps shouldn't have walked into that to begin with. There's this question I have about when someone's encountering the phenomenon. Let's imagine this occurs to one of the people watching. Do you have advice given from all that you know and all of the people you've spoken to, like Lou, for example, should someone approach it, stay away, run away? Should they contact someone directly afterwards? Should they not wash their clothing because of residual evidence on it? I see. I see. Like a crime scene."
},
{
"end_time": 1243.063,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1213.166,
"text": " Um, well, first thing is I wouldn't approach it, right? Because, you know, you don't know what it is. You know, just, just because you see a glowing ball of something doesn't mean it's an alien. It could be ball lightning, you know, rare as it is. And that could be, you know, it's a purely terrestrially explainable phenomenon at some level and you, you might hurt yourself. So, you know, and then I just wouldn't approach it and I would save everything that you can. Um, and."
},
{
"end_time": 1272.398,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1243.507,
"text": " I think writing down your thoughts at the moment is probably the most important thing, because remembering things years later, you fill in the gaps. So, you know, write it down. But also, I would also say don't believe everything you see. Right? Just because you see something doesn't mean it's actually there. You know, there's, there are enough stories about people who feel that these things are projections."
},
{
"end_time": 1303.302,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1273.541,
"text": " So maybe it's something projected into an individual's mind. Again, this is all conjecture. And again, I want to warn the various skeptics who love to write little nasty grams about me. You know, I'm not a born and true believer. I am interested in finding out what the truth is about these things. I feel that given that there are enough individuals"
},
{
"end_time": 1331.544,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1303.626,
"text": " who seem to report seeing the same things or experiencing the same things that there's a story here that needs to be explained. It's either mass hysteria, some form of Jungian collective unconscious kind of thing, or it's something real. But then once you get to the it's something real, how real or unreal is it? And again, if people are familiar with John Keel and Jacques"
},
{
"end_time": 1360.879,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1332.073,
"text": " primary theses on this, that it's, you know, there's, there's an element of irrea, in reality to this, that has yet to be understood. It drives me crazy, you know, thinking about it. And anybody, especially with Jacques, with the background and knowledge about what it is that Jacques involves himself with, is he's always looking for what's behind the what's behind."
},
{
"end_time": 1391.135,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1361.527,
"text": " that what you're presented is, as he often has called it, a form of Kabuki theater. It's something which is meant to be an intermediary or a stand-in for an objective, that these beings or whatever the people claim it is that they see aren't necessarily the beings or the consciousness, as you're interested in, that's actually driving the process."
},
{
"end_time": 1418.558,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1391.578,
"text": " That there's something put there in the stead of whatever this higher level consciousness is as an intermediary. And I had a long discussion about this, I think on the Lex Fridman show for people who want to, you know, talk about that, the whole, the ants and how do you communicate with ants? Right. I'll leave a link to that in the description. Many of the skeptics don't understand. Well, maybe they understand, but for this topic, they don't, they,"
},
{
"end_time": 1443.78,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1419.48,
"text": " don't seem to have a handle that science is contingent on speculation, that it's difficult in some ways the ground that one stands on as a scientist because it's difficult to build up from the atomic rational facts and that one makes intuitive leaps and they're inspired by logic but often in contradiction to it and independent from it. Right. Idea generation is throwing plenty at the wall and knowing most will fail and inventive ideas are generally seen as outlandish nonsensical initially anyway."
},
{
"end_time": 1473.524,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1444.377,
"text": " One of the goals with the Toe channel with this channel is to have these behind the door conversations that ordinarily occur in academia to be in front of the monitor. So at some point I'll have on Carl Fursten and Michael Levin who are going to be speculating in real time in front of the audience just to show what it looks like. Right. Well, it's absolutely true. And you call out something and I haven't I've ever haven't really ever put it that way is that the foundation of science is, as you said, pure speculation. I'd go only a"
},
{
"end_time": 1502.875,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1473.746,
"text": " Step further, the foundation of science is built on fantasy, right? That the fantasies of how we think the world is operating, right? I mean, nobody would have even, and all of our science is almost two to 3000 years old. If you go back to Plato and the Greeks and even further back, many other cultures have all contributed. And yet none of them understood that today reality is built up from these quantum wave forms."
},
{
"end_time": 1532.824,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1503.933,
"text": " right way down at the at the base level of whatever it is that the universe really is and so and yet our our ability to talk about it is all built on surrogate knowledge of what is actually really operating and only as it gets to an observable level do we ever really talk about what reality is and yet way down deep is this complex math that is is"
},
{
"end_time": 1561.783,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1532.995,
"text": " still yet unexplainable. And so we're building our picture of the world on a form of a fantasy, and science does that. I mean, as a biologist, for instance, we rarely, if ever, see the things in their native form that we talk about inside of cells. Everything is with these surrogate measurements"
},
{
"end_time": 1589.292,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1562.244,
"text": " I attach something to something else and when it does this, I infer that. And so we make up these ideas about how it is that nature is constructed, but it's rarely having seen what it is that's there. And it was really only, you know, in say the last 50 or so years with the advent of things like electron microscopy and"
},
{
"end_time": 1619.036,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1590.265,
"text": " the determination of protein structures and other things by crystallography, that our fantasies matched a picture of the reality where we can actually see the proteins that we knew were there. And they had the modules and the pieces on them that we inferred must be operable from other genetics or other kinds of experiments. And so I think science is moving towards a more, let's say, picture-based view of the world"
},
{
"end_time": 1648.387,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1619.667,
"text": " but most of our linguistics around the discussion of science is still using the fantasy language of 100 to 200 years ago. So you have to, but you have to come up with crazy ideas to explain these. I mean, we see it every day in my lab. We're like, how, wait, how, what, what's going on here? Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. And I always tell people that there, at least the way that I do it is"
},
{
"end_time": 1678.507,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1648.66,
"text": " your best at science when you can instantly formulate a whole range of ideas that might explain it. And everything from things that are potentially real and based on the experiments you do, all the way down to, I jokingly say, micro elves running the universe. But you have to be able to keep all of that in mind at a moment. And then you have to cut kind of two thresholds. And in order"
},
{
"end_time": 1707.91,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1678.797,
"text": " the most likely chain of probability that one is correct or not. And I come up with a couple of thresholds. One threshold is possible, and then everything below it is, you know, okay, no, there's no micro elves running the universe. But then, and everything above it is possible. And then within that, you have to be able to say, above this is testable. And in here is this kind of no man's land of"
},
{
"end_time": 1734.394,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1708.251,
"text": " possible but I don't have the instrumentation yet to test it and actually that's the area more often that personally I like to work because we don't have the means to test something and then that's where for instance I've created a number of companies and sold them over the years and it's always been about shrinking the size of the untestable realm."
},
{
"end_time": 1764.94,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1735.64,
"text": " so that we can basically, when we come up with a hypothesis that's based on materialism of some sort, I can actually see it. And that's moved, you know, I mean, some of the instruments in my lab were spun out as companies, and then everybody in the world in the sciences in my area uses them. And, you know, but I've been focusing smaller and smaller and smaller down towards subcellular and now atomic imaging."
},
{
"end_time": 1794.053,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1765.401,
"text": " What do you make of the derision from the skeptics and maybe even scientists who say, well, I only follow the data and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What's your response to those statements? Well, my response is, well, if that's how you want to operate, stay in the caves. I'm interested in leaving the caves and going out into uncharted territory. And, you know, the derision comes, I think,"
},
{
"end_time": 1820.299,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1794.531,
"text": " from people thinking that a conclusion has been made. No conclusion has been made. A potential explanation for the data has been offered. And even when you publish a paper, everybody knows that when you publish a paper and you state the conclusions, you are stating a formulation of the observations at a moment in time."
},
{
"end_time": 1849.07,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1820.776,
"text": " fully well realizing that 10 years from now or 20 years from now, what you thought was X, Y, and Z is actually part of a larger framework and picture that you can look back and say, well, that's not quite the way to look at it. Here's how you would think about how this is operating. So papers are, although people like to think are scientists saying this is how things are, even though it comes across that way often in papers,"
},
{
"end_time": 1879.104,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1849.394,
"text": " It really is just a moment in time that you're planting a flag and you're going to say, okay, 10, 20 years from now, we might reformulate because new data has arrived, which allows us to put things into a bigger picture. I mean, you know this from physics, you know, Maxwell's equations on, you know, on electricity and magnetism. You know, there are formulations of those these days that"
},
{
"end_time": 1905.794,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1879.514,
"text": " show that there's a form of quantum physics that Maxwell's equations fall out of, but the quantum equations are a larger picture of reality and that the Maxwell's equations are just a piece of them that fall out of it."
},
{
"end_time": 1937.5,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1907.927,
"text": " The critics actually don't bother me. If anything, they make themselves out to be obviously less informed. And it's not my job to convince the critics, in my opinion. My job is just to do the science and get the data out there and say, this data is real. Now, you help me figure out what it is that it means. And when data comes out that shows that something is not what they want it to be, I'll be right there."
},
{
"end_time": 1954.497,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1938.029,
"text": " In fact, if anything, I have disproven more things in this field than I have proven to date. You know, the Atacama, the Starkhouse skull and a couple of these so-called events. It sounds like you're saying, look, I haven't come to conclusions."
},
{
"end_time": 1983.2,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1955.196,
"text": " In fact, what you're doing as the quote unquote skeptic is coming to a non conclusion by saying so and so is not possible. Or then they may modify and say, well, I'm saying so and so is not probable. But then the way that I like to view that is, well, not like to view that there's a problem that I can't solve, which is called the reference class problem, which if anyone studied statistics, this comes up. It's that how do you know the probability of some events? So for example, if I was to say, well, what's the probability that you're going to die this year? And then you can say, well,"
},
{
"end_time": 2007.619,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1983.626,
"text": " Well, it's actually 99%. And then I say, why? Then you say, well, if you look at all the life forms on the planet, most of them are going to die in the next year, because most of them, right. So why are you choosing that as your reference class? So you'd say, okay, okay. So then when someone says, well, aliens, and so on, so on, or extraterrestrial beings, or so on, so on, not possible, they're choosing from a certain reference class. And that I don't know how one justifies that."
},
{
"end_time": 2037.483,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 2008.131,
"text": " So even claims of probability that so-and-so is more probable or less probable, they're dubious to me. Well, the one that always gets me that just shows me how some of the skeptics are almost knee-jerk about it is this notion that, well, if they came from another star system, it would have taken them thousands of years to get here. All right. Well, OK, I have two solutions to that. One, it's a very old universe."
},
{
"end_time": 2067.637,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 2037.892,
"text": " Well, and in that, there's plenty of time for somebody to have come here even by simply conventional means. And that doesn't mean that the people who created the craft that got here are the ones that are here. If you're advanced enough to be able to create your own AI, right? I mean, there's the whole concept of the von Neumann machines. You know this one, right? The von Neumann machine idea. That something arrives, makes more copies of itself,"
},
{
"end_time": 2094.991,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 2068.097,
"text": " sends those copies off elsewhere and basically there's this exponential reach even across, you know, across galaxies. And what's to say that when such an object arrives, it doesn't construct from base processes an egg that then is then turned into whatever it is that the von Neumann machine is meant to make and then"
},
{
"end_time": 2125.128,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 2095.486,
"text": " I mean, there have been plenty of science fiction stories written about this, that when they get there, the AI then teaches the humans what it is to be a human. There's actually one that's just on Netflix right now, Raised by Wolves. It's a British show, I think. It's pretty good. So, I mean, that's one of them. And then second, it assumes that we know everything about the laws of physics. This notion that, okay, well, they are somehow"
},
{
"end_time": 2155.981,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 2126.049,
"text": " As you in your terminology, they are bound by our reference frame. And that our reference is the current laws of understanding of, you know, E equals MC squared. And, you know, when somebody else has different math. Right. And so if one was going by, if one was choosing the reference class to be, well, look, every 60 years or so in physics, our formulation of physics is drastically overturned, or let's say every 80 years or so, then, and we're assuming these beings"
},
{
"end_time": 2176.783,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 2156.169,
"text": " If their beings are far greater than 80 years ahead of us, well, right, we impose that they have the same understanding of physics. Also, it's false to say that from the nearest star system, it takes thousands of years to come to us. They can come to us or someone can come to us with special relativity almost instantaneously. It's just that thousands of as far as they're concerned. Yeah, right, right. In their reference frame, right."
},
{
"end_time": 2204.121,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 2177.329,
"text": " I think she was referring to some comments I had made about my frustration listening to experiencers"
},
{
"end_time": 2230.572,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 2204.343,
"text": " and actually having some experiences in my immediate family who had no control over the events that were occurring to them. And there's many, many, many examples of this in the literature. And if you imagine that whatever this is has to"
},
{
"end_time": 2259.838,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 2232.022,
"text": " communicate with humans through somehow our sensory apparatus in our brain, whether it's, you know, directly, if it's sound based, well, then there's no drug for that. But if it's somehow coming inside through the sensory apparatus, I use the term telefactoring before that, if it's interfering with us in some way,"
},
{
"end_time": 2289.377,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2260.418,
"text": " Why couldn't we make, if we understand enough about how the interference is being generated, maybe there's a drug to stop us or to prevent that from occurring. I mean, there's a lot of science would have to be done around something like that. And I'm not saying it's doable tomorrow or anything like that. But the notion is for the people who feel that they are being inappropriately"
},
{
"end_time": 2319.497,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2290.111,
"text": " interacted with, give them the ability to turn it off. It makes you wonder sometimes, again, this pure speculation, makes you wonder sometimes whether people who are in mental health facilities today, so-called schizophrenics or what have you, who can't seem to function properly in normal society, how many of them have such, again, speculation, have these continued interactions and they just can't turn them off?"
},
{
"end_time": 2349.906,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2320.111,
"text": " That's freaky. Well, I had some experience. I won't go into it here and it's not a phenomenon. Well, maybe I don't think it's a phenomenon experience where I had to go to the, I had to send myself to the hospital because I was typing and then I wasn't typing and something said to me,"
},
{
"end_time": 2379.974,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2350.179,
"text": " You have to come get me because I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not suicidal in the least, but I don't know why would I"
},
{
"end_time": 2409.428,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2380.026,
"text": " And anyway, I went downstairs. I remember the police came first and I told the police officer, I'm not going to try and grab your gun, which already freaks the police officer out. But I'm like, right. I don't know what I'm like. I'm extremely scared right now. So please just just treat me calmly and nicely because I'm in a sensitive state right now. And then they just looked at me like, OK, all right, let's just wait until the to the right. Let's get to the paramedics come. Yeah. And since then, I almost never use the word crazy to refer to someone. Yeah, I think that that's a word of condescension."
},
{
"end_time": 2426.288,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2409.718,
"text": " The opinions rendered herein are those of the guests, and not necessarily those"
},
{
"end_time": 2454.138,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2426.92,
"text": " stop studying consciousness for a little while because it was putting me into an extremely horrible, horrible, horrible States. And I think that anyone who thinks about consciousness or UFOs even, or the phenomena and takes it seriously that I don't know how they don't send themselves into a spiral of an unhealthy spiral. Well, I think that's a really interesting point because, you know, I have, again, some friends who are, who get so deeply into this."
},
{
"end_time": 2484.206,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2454.514,
"text": " that they do, I worry sometimes if they're not just creating a mental world for themselves of true fantasy. And so sometimes just get back out into the real world. And again, don't follow it down the rabbit hole because you can very easily, as you say, you can create the problem for yourself."
},
{
"end_time": 2514.309,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2484.65,
"text": " that has, it's only going on in your head. Um, you know, I, I had, I'll just say this, this is something I haven't talked about ever publicly before. I had an experience in London once, um, that I still don't understand to this day. It was like, you know, I don't know why this always happens at three o'clock in the morning. It's hilarious, but for a lot of people. Um, and I woke up and my whole body was just,"
},
{
"end_time": 2543.183,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2514.753,
"text": " pulsing in with like some sort of electric fire, like nothing I'd ever felt before. Um, and it feel it and, but hear it, hear it and feel it from the tip of my toes to my fingers, whole body. Um, and right as I woke up, it wasn't even words. It was more like a, but it was clear. It was the words. This is how you connect."
},
{
"end_time": 2574.548,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2545.333,
"text": " And it went on for about 15 seconds. And then I just said, whatever, stop. This has got to stop. And it stopped. So I was clearly awake. I had control over it. But again, where did this voice come from? Maybe it was a dream. The voice was a dream voice of some sort. But the feeling was not. I'd never had any feeling like that before."
},
{
"end_time": 2603.2,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2574.787,
"text": " And interestingly, the next evening it happened again at about the same time, but only a very fractional sense of it. So I asked actually, I came back and I asked Jacques, what could that have been? And he said, well, maybe it was a Kundalini event or something like that. So I went and read about Kundalini, never heard of it before. It didn't seem to match any of that. But it was an experience, if you will, that I can't explain."
},
{
"end_time": 2631.425,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2603.558,
"text": " might be have a completely normal physiologic basis. I spoke to, I mean, my next door neighbor is the chairman of psychiatry at Stanford. And so she sees everything. Um, and I spoke with her, uh, yes, he's useful. And, uh, and, uh, so, uh, she says, no, that doesn't fall into any of the frameworks of things that we hear about. That's not what you want to hear. Exactly. I was like, damn, I just, I, maybe you just told me I ate too much Indian food or something."
},
{
"end_time": 2660.418,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2632.022,
"text": " which I do when I go to London a lot. The first thing I do is I head to the Indian restaurants in Soho. You should ask them. Yeah. Well, they might have a different explanation for it, right? The mystics and yogis of India, I think, are at the root of many of these stories. They're probably the most sophisticated, I would say, of the shamans,"
},
{
"end_time": 2670.384,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2661.049,
"text": " who have explored consciousness in an almost scientific manner. Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 2697.415,
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"start_time": 2671.323,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
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"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level."
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"text": " Go to shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify.com slash theories."
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"text": " Razor blades are like diving boards. The longer the board, the more the wobble, the more the wobble, the more nicks, cuts, scrapes. A bad shave isn't a blade problem, it's an extension problem. Henson is a family-owned aerospace parts manufacturer that's made parts for the International Space Station and the Mars Rover."
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"end_time": 2806.664,
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"text": " Now they're bringing that precision engineering to your shaving experience. By using aerospace-grade CNC machines, Henson makes razors that extend less than the thickness of a human hair. The razor also has built-in channels that evacuates hair and cream, which make clogging virtually impossible. Henson Shaving wants to produce the best razors, not the best razor business, so that means no plastics, no subscriptions, no proprietary blades, and no planned obsolescence."
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"text": " It's also extremely affordable. The Henson razor works with the standard dual edge blades that give you that old school shave with the benefits of this new school tech. It's time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that'll last you a lifetime. Visit hensonshaving.com slash everything."
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{
"end_time": 2852.108,
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"text": " If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart. Plus 100 free blades when you head to H E N S O N S H A V I N G dot com slash everything and use the code everything. Have you found that any of the people who have experienced the phenomenon recall people who are familiar with, you know, about the caudate and the putamen and there's certain connections that have grown. OK, that"
},
{
"end_time": 2880.947,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2852.551,
"text": " That to me implies that for the people who don't have those connections, if they were standing next to the other people, that they wouldn't experience the phenomenon if it was purely some projection that only right. Have you heard of cases like this? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Jacques will probably be the better person to talk to about it because he knows them specifically, but yeah, there's, there's several cases where people will see something that the other person doesn't. Um, and actually there's, let me try to talk a little bit about that, about that caudate thing."
},
{
"end_time": 2907.79,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2881.442,
"text": " Because, you know, we've now we've published one paper with a group at Harvard and we've got another one that is coming out that once again, the Caudate, Potain and Basal Ganglia is at the core of many of the, let's say the more mainstream things that we were claiming, even before we had our first publication that the Caudate is the basically is a central node involved in intuitive"
},
{
"end_time": 2937.978,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2908.251,
"text": " and other, well, crystallized and fluid intelligence. And so even though Kit and I had sort of come to this conclusion that it was involved with intuition, and we intuited it, that it was involved with intuition, when you dive into the literature, you find, we found easily now, dozens of papers that others have done from completely mainstream points of view that show the caudate is key"
},
{
"end_time": 2966.766,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2938.592,
"text": " to, I mean, this tiny little thing inside of your brain, this giant brain and this key little thing in the, in the center is sort of like the node. But what we've also done now is we've been doing, uh, what you would call morphometrics. So we've taken the MRIs of people's brains. We've, uh, basically you can use that to basically circle the areas of the brain that people have recognized before. Here's the thalamus."
},
{
"end_time": 2996.698,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2967.295,
"text": " We can get the size, the volume, the densities. We can even get with the right kind of MRI, you can get what's called tensor flow, which is really the tracks between brain regions that are basically the cables that connect the various regions. And because you know in biology that there's"
},
{
"end_time": 3026.408,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2997.039,
"text": " that there's always a give and take across a system, that if one thing is doing something and it's bigger because of it, there'll be a compensation elsewhere in the system, and that it's the parts all playing together that create the function. Any one point might be a node that's key for, let's say, driving the process overall, but there's no one thing alone."
},
{
"end_time": 3056.783,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 3026.852,
"text": " And so using this notion of networks, we've now been able to show that, well, it's not just the caudate. There's an area over here that when this is large or small, this compensates. So a person, you know, this focus only on the caudate is again, this is now a reinterpretation of a flag in the sand because of what we could do four years ago versus what we can do today. Now today,"
},
{
"end_time": 3087.193,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 3057.278,
"text": " We can look at the whole brain, automate what we call the segmentation of the brain. So when Kit did the analysis originally, he did it by hand, and he did it double-blinded with another forensic pathologist, a neurophysiology forensic pathologist."
},
{
"end_time": 3116.971,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 3087.381,
"text": " and he basically said, okay, well, here's the area that has the higher density. And he basically like, it's hard enough to figure out what the area in 2D is, but to basically do that in 3D, you know, on a computer screen where you're drawing volumes and things, that's a very manual process and obviously going to be subject to bias, right? And so you try to know"
},
{
"end_time": 3147.312,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 3117.619,
"text": " You make sure that the person who's doing the measurements doesn't know what it is that they're measuring. In other words, are they from a control group or are they from the experiencer or high functioning group that you think? So you want to take the person out. So then we built artificial intelligence algorithms that would basically scan the brain, find the volumes. Segment means draw a circle around them."
},
{
"end_time": 3176.715,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 3147.551,
"text": " I have experience with this in our cancer work, where we do this kind of segmentation all the time in 2D. One of my companies, two of my companies actually, basically create biopsy images with a kind of biological depth that allows us to do segmentation of the cells and into regions and neighborhoods and things. So we're taking the same thing now up to 3D. So automate the segmentation means now we can basically take 200 patients"
},
{
"end_time": 3205.776,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 3177.21,
"text": " run it in the program overnight and get all the segmentation volumes out the next day. I mean, previously it took Kit and his, you know, his colleague something like a year to do that. Are you able to do that with the data that you had before, or you need to rescan people in some new manner? Yeah, we, the, um, the data that we had before, uh, and because of the Havana syndrome, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 3234.548,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 3206.34,
"text": " Let's say diagnoses of some of these individuals. It complicates, first of all, the cohort. Second, I don't have access to those MRIs anymore because once it started to become clear that this was going to be an important problem, basically Kit put a lockdown on it because me even getting access to these many of these patients and rightly so."
},
{
"end_time": 3263.012,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 3235.043,
"text": " because some of the patients were public and some of those patients didn't like the fact that we were talking about their or as it turned out even though they had given us verbal permission to study it and talk a little bit about it they didn't want to be grouped with you know either the Havana syndrome or other classifications and so I don't want to touch them anymore right and"
},
{
"end_time": 3293.012,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 3264.838,
"text": " No, no, no, because let's say that you are publicly known as being such an individual, right? Maybe as being part of the class. And then I make some statement about that. Like I make the statement on what some of the people might be crazy. Well, you know, I mean, first of all, I wouldn't say that. But second of all, second of all, they will feel painted by that brush. So when you're talking about humans and people,"
},
{
"end_time": 3323.404,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 3293.643,
"text": " You know, they're not data points. They're people with feelings and feelings that can be very easily hurt. And if you are in any way known for, you know, having been an experiencer, all it takes is one person tweeting out your name and saying you're this or you're that. And, you know, you can more than just ruin somebody's day. And so in the current social media environment, you have to go with entirely anonymized data."
},
{
"end_time": 3352.193,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 3324.104,
"text": " which is, but that's the reason why I turned to this group at Harvard, because they had access to a lot of the databases and they had the interest in the use of MRIs for these kinds of more let's say mainstream studies. And so the first paper that we did, we looked at schizophrenics and autism individuals, because"
},
{
"end_time": 3380.913,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 3352.398,
"text": " You know, on the far end in the positive, in the fully positive sense of schizophrenics is that often they can be very creative individuals because their minds, let's say, range a little bit further than others. They see or make connections that others don't. That others don't, exactly. And that's really the heart of intuition, you know, finding disparate data and showing that they actually have a hidden connection behind the scenes."
},
{
"end_time": 3410.452,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 3381.254,
"text": " And then on the other side of the problem are autistic spectral disorder, of which there are many different types of autisms. But certain autistics, as you probably know, can be extremely high functioning. And they have, again, almost not a form of intuition like their, oh, I see things that other people don't. They can come to conclusions"
},
{
"end_time": 3440.691,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3410.708,
"text": " are remarkable, like mathematical conclusions. You can ask them what the square root of some extraordinary number is, and they go like that. How do they do that? What's the process in their brain that allows them to do that? As it turns out, if you look at the MRIs of such individuals, one of the areas of the brain that's called out repeatedly in both of them, but in different places, is the caudate patina."
},
{
"end_time": 3471.186,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3441.34,
"text": " There are what we would call, at least from our, let's say normative standpoint, defects in their caudate putamen, you know, not like wholesale rupturing or anything like that, but, you know, smaller regions or things that seem to be have gone wrong. So it's a diminution of the caudate putanum or it's an enlargement? Oh, just, just no, neither. Just kind of, let's say dysmorphias. Dysmorphias just kind of like changes. And, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 3500.384,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3471.544,
"text": " You know, and in one sense, if it's any of these things, and I don't know that all of them or any of them are or which of them are, if it's genetically determined, it's evolution trying out something new. Because if it were a successful mutation that helped both that individual and their, let's say, genetically related group succeed or compete better than others, it will be over the course of time selected for."
},
{
"end_time": 3529.138,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3501.101,
"text": " and in a positive sense. So anyway, we have these groups. And the reason we were doing this is we wanted to, at least as I've been framing it, if so-called experiencers have these experiences, do their brains look normal? Do their brains look more like schizophrenics? Or do their brains look more like autistics?"
},
{
"end_time": 3556.869,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3529.565,
"text": " because one of the things that you as a skeptic or as a doctor might do is if I say, you know, if you Kurt, you know, repeatedly say there's somebody typing through my fingers, um, the doctor, you know, the, you're a psychiatrist interviewing you would want to say, you know, whether or not this person is showing signs of some sort of dissociative disorder. Well, we would like someday to be able to look in a person's brain,"
},
{
"end_time": 3585.572,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3557.654,
"text": " from a purely pathology standpoint and say with an MRI, ah, their brain structure has elements of schizophrenia or my child is not talking as much as they think. We think he might be autistic. Um, so you get an MRI done and you say, ah, yes, they do actually have a brain structure, which is consistent with an autistic, right? So"
},
{
"end_time": 3612.79,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3586.51,
"text": " So you want to exclude that class from the people who are experienced? No, I don't. I don't want to exclude them, but I want to, I mean, it would be nice to know if experiencers fall on that spectrum or a different spectrum altogether. And when you say this spectrum, so are schizophrenics somehow opposite to autistics? No, no, no, no. Good question. As I said it, I realized it was,"
},
{
"end_time": 3623.592,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3613.404,
"text": " So there's a spectrum between normal and autistics and then there's a spectrum between normal and schizophrenics. Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 3650.657,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3624.599,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
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"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone."
},
{
"end_time": 3702.551,
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"start_time": 3676.817,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
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{
"end_time": 3731.357,
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"text": " Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories. In terms of behaviors, right? And so from a materialist standpoint, you like you people like to somehow think is that there's going to be a brain structure, which is correlated with this, if not even a brain structure, let's say just a metabolism of how the brain operates. I mean, you could have"
},
{
"end_time": 3761.647,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3731.852,
"text": " I can have a normal brain and then something can go wrong with my metabolism and that could mimic a pathology that might be tissue-based. So there's tissue-based pathologies and then there's metabolism-based pathologies, right? You know, I mean, so you just think about it like this, like your kidney, a person could be born with a kidney that is for whatever reason, you know, messed up, right? Just not formed correctly."
},
{
"end_time": 3789.787,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3762.568,
"text": " Um, and then they won't have a kidney function, right? At least one of the two will not be functional correctly. And then later on in life, though, you could be a normal individual, two perfectly functioning kidneys. And, you know, you eat some mushroom you shouldn't have eaten, you know, made its way into your soup and you have, you know, it kills off part of your kidney metabolism problem. Right. So, but it could mimic the same thing."
},
{
"end_time": 3817.858,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3790.128,
"text": " the end of the day, your kidney is not functioning. Right. And so this, you know, the brain is much more complex than that. But so, but so I wanted these reference sets, so that when we ever, and I'm not sure we're ever going to do it in the short term, when we get around to doing this with experiencers, or frankly, different classes of individuals with different kinds of"
},
{
"end_time": 3845.657,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3818.387,
"text": " extraordinary mental abilities. And with this, I mean things like math, or, you know, music, or etc. You know, are there brain structures associated with these, you know, high functioning individuals that you can call out? Because that tells us, it's not because you want to know what your child is the day they're born, are they going to be musician or mathematician? But you"
},
{
"end_time": 3875.043,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3845.964,
"text": " by doing this, begin to learn about how the brain is actually functioning. So that with these now, what are public data sets that you can download off the net that have been vetted, people have been classified according to their intellectual capabilities, et cetera. Now you can begin to show that certain, and this is one of the papers that we're just submitting, that certain brain structure, organization sizes and tracks between them appear to be"
},
{
"end_time": 3901.886,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3875.435,
"text": " correlated with certain kinds of intelligence or certain kinds of abilities. And we're not the only ones doing it, not by far. But I haven't seen many papers yet that are taking it the same approach that we are with these automated segmentations. But it's so easy to do that I expect there to be an explosion of research in this area."
},
{
"end_time": 3932.073,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3902.295,
"text": " because it's going to tell us something about how the brain is operating. So to circle back to your Diana Pasulka question about the drug, if there is a tract between one part of a brain and another that seems to be important for a certain function, you know, with enough analysis, maybe there's a way we can target that area to compensate for either a lack or if you find out that one part of the brain"
},
{
"end_time": 3961.903,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3932.585,
"text": " is overworking itself, which is suppressing some other function. Or maybe you turn this one off. So you either turn one on or you turn one off. And you can either do it with a drug. Drugs are harder to do because brain chemistry, as you probably know, is really messy. And a lot of the antidepressants that people use, et cetera, you have to sort of try one out. Does this one work? Does that one work? But maybe transcranial stimulation."
},
{
"end_time": 3992.159,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3962.637,
"text": " is something that might be effective to enhance certain abilities or to turn off certain other areas. I mean, another example is what's called the default mode network in your brain. The default mode is sort of the organizing principle that keeps all of the other parts of the brain playing together well, and it sits somewhere close to so-called executive function."
},
{
"end_time": 4022.722,
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"text": " Well, drugs like psychedelics, it looks like turn off the default mode network and allow all of the other parts of the brain to to come, you know, rise to the surface and start having a discussion. So, you know, maybe the default node mode network turn off was what happened when you were typing your fingers that somehow because you were so into what you were doing, the default mode turned off and other parts of your brain that, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 4051.886,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 4023.148,
"text": " Let's say have some ask who have who have access to your personality told you I'm in control now. Right. And maybe when I woke up that night in London, it was my default mode network was off and some other part of my brain said, I'm going to do this to you. Right. Or this is, you know, so you always have to keep those kinds of things in the back of your mind as possible explanations and not always think of it as an outside agency."
},
{
"end_time": 4082.773,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 4052.927,
"text": " that is imposing itself on you. Standard psychiatry would like to keep everything in your head and not think of outside agencies. And I think probably 99% of the time it is internal, but 99% still leaves 1% and external possibility. So you just got to keep it in mind."
},
{
"end_time": 4111.561,
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"start_time": 4083.114,
"text": " I was, I was, I don't know why on Netflix or something. I was watching other night, some guy, Tyler Henry, he's a medium. You should go look him up. Uh, he's it's extraordinary what he, what he does. I won't relay it all, but I mean, I sit there going, where's this guy getting this information? He sits down across from somebody and now he's telling them about their life and somebody close to them who died and giving them information that's clearly having an emotional impact on them. And assuming it's not all a big hoax. Yeah. Not cold reading."
},
{
"end_time": 4141.903,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 4112.005,
"text": " It's kind of a cold reading. And where is he getting this information from? And he has a process. And his process is basically scribbling on a book. And it's almost as if by the scribbling process, it's kind of a meditation. He's turning something off. And that allows other information for him to be able to access."
},
{
"end_time": 4153.729,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 4142.329,
"text": " I would love to get a hold of people like that, get MRIs of their brains as they're doing these things, functional MRIs, first of all just to see what structure do they have."
},
{
"end_time": 4181.92,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 4154.633,
"text": " Do mediums, let's say, or claimed mediums have ever been done as far as you know? No, never. Why do you think that is? Because as you say, it sounds like an extremely interesting study that I'm wondering, why has that not? I know of a guy in LA, in fact, I spoke to them, who's funding some of this kind of research. But again, nobody has had the automated segmentation algorithms"
},
{
"end_time": 4210.486,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 4182.415,
"text": " to do this. And again, it's not because I don't think people wanted to do it. It's just because, again, the compute power wasn't there before. I mean, the kind of stuff that I do only in 2D couldn't be done before with my pathology cancer research because the compute power wasn't there. First of all, we couldn't get the data. And second, even if we had the data, we wouldn't be able to do anything with it. But now we have the compute power to do it. So that opens new doors."
},
{
"end_time": 4241.664,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 4211.698,
"text": " Again, you should expect a huge flow. But before one runs to try to hit the ball out of the park, you have to do the groundwork and saying, what is normal? What's the normal range of human brain shapes? And even amongst normals, or let's say non... Non-mediums? Well, non-classified as schizophrenic or autistic, or name 10 other mental health issues."
},
{
"end_time": 4272.244,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 4242.432,
"text": " You want to find out what the main classes of pathologies, again, I'm not using the term saying people have a problem with this, before you start running into doing mediums. You can do it, but then you have no reference set, nobody to compare them against to say, oh, it's like this or it's like that."
},
{
"end_time": 4302.227,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 4272.449,
"text": " or it is this and this is different than normal. So that legwork that we're doing now is setting up for a few years from now when both monies will be available, I think, even if I have to fund it myself, or government funding. But sometimes you can get government funding by doing something which is, let's say, normal in mainstream"
},
{
"end_time": 4331.971,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 4302.91,
"text": " mental health studies. And then once you've done that, then it's possible to say mediums, I'm going to do people who have, let's say intuition, and you call it intuition, right? You know, a study on intuition and then amongst the cohort, you, you do this, it's not that you're, it's not that you're doing something inappropriate. You're just defining it in a way, frankly, that normal scientists would, they would say, Oh, these mediums are picking up on they're in two"
},
{
"end_time": 4360.486,
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"text": " Hear that sound? That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
"end_time": 4379.48,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 4360.486,
"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the"
},
{
"end_time": 4405.316,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 4379.48,
"text": " Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklynin. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story?"
},
{
"end_time": 4433.66,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 4405.316,
"text": " Putting something from the environment. Fine. Maybe they are. Then let's figure out what it is that's special about their ability to do it."
},
{
"end_time": 4463.097,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 4434.241,
"text": " It might have no paranormal aspect to it whatsoever. I still would want to know how this guy does it. Is this to be taken as a call for people who are mediums to email you or no? No, my God, no, no, I get enough as it is. I'm at some point. Yes, but at some point in the short term, no, I'm not ready for it at all. And I don't even know that I'm the right person to do it. There's I have been contacted by a few scientists who want to do it."
},
{
"end_time": 4492.739,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 4463.66,
"text": " And then they would want access to these databases at that point. But no, I have enough to do earlier. You mentioned Havana syndrome. And when I looked into it, I found it to be terribly murky. I don't know what Havana syndrome is. And so when you're, this is in reference to my research on you with regard to skin water. And then you said that, well, we can classify some people as Havana syndrome. I want to know firstly, what is Havana syndrome? How are you able to classify them as that? It seems like a cloudy definition. And then also,"
},
{
"end_time": 4521.408,
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"start_time": 4493.285,
"text": " you concluded that some of, if not all of what was happening at skinwalker from what you've studied with state actors. So I don't know what is meant by state actors and how you came to that conclusion. So there are a couple of questions right there. Yeah. So, um, okay. So, um, right. So this all started of course with, uh, with kit, uh, and you know, there's, he's actually given a, uh, an interview, I think it was on the debrief or somewhere recently."
},
{
"end_time": 4550.162,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 4521.749,
"text": " that's very in depth about sort of the history of the of the project and the timeline. So when we first were looking at these patients that we got this basically a bucket of cases from the basically the defense intelligence access that the doctors didn't know what to do with people who were"
},
{
"end_time": 4580.64,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4550.657,
"text": " So the reason why many of these cases are murky and is actually hidden in a way in the term syndrome. A syndrome is usually a medical terminology for something that has related but disparate"
},
{
"end_time": 4606.869,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4580.998,
"text": " symptomologies. So usually it's like there's 20 things that can fall within this classification system. You're hearing buzzing, headaches, this and that. And you don't have to have all of them. You just have to have enough of them. And you say, you've got this syndrome. We don't, but usually what people are thinking when they say syndrome is that there's probably multiple different"
},
{
"end_time": 4637.005,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4607.585,
"text": " sub pathologies within them, each of which is a distinct and unique group. So for instance, a hundred years ago, or even 80 years ago, you could have cancer and cancer broadly is, you know, is actually has about, you know, 200 different diseases underneath it, right? Blood cancer, you know, colon, et cetera, et cetera. So we actually in the, by around 2015, 2016,"
},
{
"end_time": 4662.944,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4637.363,
"text": " we're calling it what we called at the time, or I should say kit, uh, interference syndrome that people were being interfered with. Uh, and here were the range of things that were happening to them. Uh, and so what as a doctor you do, you basically, you start to determine what the individual symptoms are."
},
{
"end_time": 4692.483,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4664.019,
"text": " And those individual symptoms then are matched to definitions in what's the best way to do it is called the ICD codes, right? And so the ICD codes are classification system of diseases and related health problems, right? So you have, you have this kind of a skin blistering it's, you know, and it has these, you know, it has infiltration of macrophages in this and this it's ICD code X."
},
{
"end_time": 4721.425,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4693.131,
"text": " And so what he does is he takes the verbal testimony or his observations of the patient and writes down these ICD codes. And it's a way of just classifying and knowing that you're talking about apples to apples, oranges to oranges kind of a thing. And then right around 2018 or so, the so-called Havana cases were coming up, which Havana, Cuba,"
},
{
"end_time": 4750.811,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4721.664,
"text": " specifically some of the diplomatic personnel were having these buzzing sounds, getting sick, headaches, et cetera. And that kind of went public. And then Kit got a hold of some of the case files related to some of these events and realized that when he matched the ICD codes of the Havana syndrome, they matched or overlapped"
},
{
"end_time": 4780.299,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4751.067,
"text": " with a lot of our cases, right? And then after that, I'm going to put you a thing here. Somebody actually put it in Twitter somewhere to remind me of it. A science group, the so-called Jasons, which are a group of scientists who the government calls upon. I'm not part of the Jasons."
},
{
"end_time": 4809.633,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4780.794,
"text": " to help them understand some event that occurs and write white papers and things like that. They were brought in to basically do an assessment of this and it became obvious that these cases were probably driven by"
},
{
"end_time": 4839.121,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4810.708,
"text": " I use the term state actor. Some people got bent out of shape because I use that term. It basically means somebody who is an agent of, let's say, Russia or China or something like that, or a rogue element within our own government. State actor implies some sort of funded by a government."
},
{
"end_time": 4869.462,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4839.753,
"text": " But it could just as easily be, you know, terrorist groups who gained access to, you know, some of these technologies that could cause these things. And if you look at that PDF that I just sent you, there's all kinds of different approaches, acoustic attacks, electromagnetic attacks, microwave. I'll include a link to that in the description as well. Yeah. And so it's not beyond"
},
{
"end_time": 4899.701,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4870.572,
"text": " the capability of anybody in the last 20 years to have these kinds of attack, you know, approaches, vectors or whatever. So when I say it's out of my hands, when it's, well, these are clearly falling under a, what's the right word?"
},
{
"end_time": 4929.258,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4900.196,
"text": " Um, it's falling under the rubric or an umbrella of something which appears to be purely human or terrestrial. Yeah. With intention, with intention. And that has nothing to do with UAPs whatsoever. Now what's interesting is, and this is what the, whoever it was who tweeted this recently, um, yeah, I haven't found the number in here. I'm going to have to go in, but they said about 10 to 15% of the cases, uh, that the adjacent had looked at could not be explained."
},
{
"end_time": 4957.79,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4929.667,
"text": " under the rubric of Havana syndrome and were as of yet on indeterminate causation. That doesn't mean that they're UAP, right? It just means that, again, the broad bucket of people with strange things happening to them didn't fall under that. Now, there's already people out there trying to pick apart the things that Lou has been talking about with injury."
},
{
"end_time": 4985.282,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4958.2,
"text": " and the things that Kit talked about as injury. I actually spoke with Lou about it the other day. Some of the cases that Lou was talking about are different than the ones that Kit are talking about. So just because Kit says he's got them all figured out, it doesn't mean that there aren't other cases out there that Lou is aware of"
},
{
"end_time": 5015.725,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4985.879,
"text": " that are different than the ones that Kit is, that have a much more proximal, let's say, UAP relationship. But even Kit, and I talk with him about it fairly frequently, is like, well, look, I can explain it by human technology. I don't need to invoke something else, right? But he's very careful in how he parses his word. I can explain it."
},
{
"end_time": 5046.032,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 5016.237,
"text": " doesn't say it was caused by human technology, you know, at the end of the day, a burn is a burn, whether it's caused by, you know, an alien power generator, or, you know, the back end of a jet flame. Right. So, you know, he's just saying I don't need the fact that these injuries occur does is not a smoking gun for UAP. So, you know, he's, he's being a good scientist about it."
},
{
"end_time": 5075.265,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 5046.749,
"text": " But the only thing that you have to sort of walk away from with it is some of the people say that the proximal cause was an object that showed up. It wasn't they were working in their office at the, you know, at the Havana, you know, American embassy and they got headaches. You know, these were people who were in the field who saw something and something happened to them. The cash laundromat case is probably one of the best cases in point."
},
{
"end_time": 5092.875,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 5076.357,
"text": " I went through this recently released DIRD document from 2009. The DIRD document that I'm referencing is called the Defense Intelligence Reference Document. It's titled Anomalous Acute and Subacute Field Effects on Human Biological Tissues. You can find a link to it in the description."
},
{
"end_time": 5120.572,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 5094.548,
"text": " I went through this recently released dirt document from 2009, went through it not with a fine tooth comb, with a regular comb, let's say I skimmed it. And I want to read a passage to you and I want to know what you make of it. It said based on historical cases, humans have been found to be injured from the exposures to anomalous vehicles, especially airborne and when in relatively close proximity. And then it said, OK, especially airborne, which to me implies that there are some non airborne cases."
},
{
"end_time": 5149.411,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 5121.067,
"text": " So what are these non-airborne type vehicles and what's the difference between the effects on the witnesses from non-airborne versus airborne? I don't know the specifics that are being discussed there. Non-airborne, I don't know, maybe it's the thing has landed. I don't know. I don't know the individual cases, unfortunately. And again, I can't pry them out of kit."
},
{
"end_time": 5177.329,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 5150.128,
"text": " for good reason. For all the reasons that you, you know, he just, he just can't let these cases out. And it doesn't have anything to do with UAP. I couldn't force this stuff. I can't force the information out of some of the cancer patients that the doctors I work with, because they're rightly protecting their privacy. You know, people have great questions, but they think, they think that we can just play"
},
{
"end_time": 5206.8,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 5177.91,
"text": " you know, willy-nilly with people's private data. You can't. And I'm not hiding behind it. I'm telling you as much as what I know. But at the end of the day, the specifics will remain, you know, out of reach. I think what people should take away from it is that it's reason to attempt to fund true research, what we would call prospective,"
},
{
"end_time": 5237.039,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 5207.346,
"text": " research, uh, prepare to collect the data in, you know, in a going forward manner, as opposed to retrospective analysis of old cases where you're, you're trying to piece together something that happened in the distant past. You prefer perspective. I prefer prospect now retrospective. I mean, we do retrospective studies all the time on cancer. You know, we, with a large enough cohort of individuals of colorectal cancer, for instance,"
},
{
"end_time": 5266.135,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 5237.312,
"text": " we can use, you know, biological analysis of the, of the tissue and find signatures of outcome, right? Because retrospective, we know what the, we know what the disease was. We know what the drug that they were given and we know what the outcome was for those patients. And so now what you're doing is you're looking amongst the patients who had a good outcome versus those that had a bad outcome and saying, was there a, was there a tissue structure that predicted the good outcome or the bad outcome?"
},
{
"end_time": 5295.896,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 5266.323,
"text": " because that tissue structure was going to be susceptible to the drug, right? To make the drug be more likely to operate and work than not. And so that's just, that's how these perspective, now a perspective study would be, I'm setting up to do this and I'm going to collect the data knowingly, and I'm going to create inclusion exclusion criteria that bring the right kinds of patients in. And then I, so I'm, no, I'm working with apples and apples."
},
{
"end_time": 5322.534,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 5296.903,
"text": " You work with retrospective usually to form hypotheses of what it is that you want to do and then you prove the retrospective conclusions with a prospective new study that's tailored specifically to look at the things that you think are important. Are there any retrospective or prospective studies"
},
{
"end_time": 5352.585,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 5323.046,
"text": " that you know about on psychedelics and UFOs or psychedelic potentially summoning certain beings via some meditative technique. So I, again, I was talking to this, this group in LA that are doing they're serious scientists that have a potentially wealthy benefactor to, to do just this. I mean, I'm not doing the study with them. They just called me to get my perspective on it. And so I hope that they go ahead and do it because"
},
{
"end_time": 5378.166,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 5353.336,
"text": " There's lots of people willing to partake in those kinds of studies. There's frankly no NIH program that's ever going to be funded in the near future for doing this kind of stuff for all the reasons we know. So a wealthy and interested benefactor is really the next best thing for that."
},
{
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"index": 196,
"start_time": 5379.309,
"text": " Do psychedelics have any role to play in the caudate-putamen connection? And by the way, is this a red herring? Because earlier you mentioned, well, just because it's overgrown here, it could imply a lesser growth somewhere else. And that could be what's actually responsible. Yeah, I mean, or it could limit. I mean, if you're, you know, if you, it's like a fuel injector, you know, if you, if you limit the amount of fuel going into one part of the brain, then it doesn't matter how good the upstream process is, if there's a filter,"
},
{
"end_time": 5436.442,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 5408.439,
"text": " It never makes it the rest of the way. Now, where and how the, let's say DMT or these other psychedelics operate and what they do to the brain, I haven't seen anything yet on it. The problem is that these are, of course, almost all scheduled drugs, meaning they have limitations on their uses. And I"
},
{
"end_time": 5465.299,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 5436.63,
"text": " do know of, there's a guy at Stanford and there's a guy, I think at Johns Hopkins. Again, I was asking my, um, my, uh, um, psychiatry chair neighbor about this for exactly the reasons you're asking, you know, who's doing these studies right now. Um, and, uh, the guy in LA, uh, is actually a very well known doctor, uh, in this area. Uh, so he's associated with the program, with that program that they're trying to run."
},
{
"end_time": 5489.991,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 5465.828,
"text": " And I think the brain morphometry tools that we're building will be useful to these individuals. And the data sets that we're producing will be useful to these individuals. And how DMT or psilocybin or LSD work into it, I don't know. But I'll be fascinated to see the results."
},
{
"end_time": 5518.643,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 5490.572,
"text": " Do you surmise that psychedelics are acting as a removal of filters and allowing in senses, sorry, and allowing in sensory information? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. And then this seems to me to be a component of one generating it from within one's own mind. And then there is possibly the other element of one allowing in information that wouldn't allow, and then they have to mingle in some manner. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I've said this before that whatever people think electrosensory"
},
{
"end_time": 5548.916,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 5519.633,
"text": " whether it's real or not. Eventually, wherever the information comes in, it has to overlay onto the normal, or it seems to be overlaying onto the normal senses. People see things, or they hear things, or they feel something emotionally, or some mixture of the above."
},
{
"end_time": 5577.483,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 5549.326,
"text": " So you have an internal screen in your head. You can close your eyes and you can see things. When you dream, you see it in even more stark clarity. So whatever the so-called antenna might be, it somehow sits on top of the sensory system that you already have and"
},
{
"end_time": 5607.056,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 5578.268,
"text": " overlays the information into that. If we are purely materialistic beings, now you can start asking questions about consciousness. Maybe it has nothing to do with the brain at all, but wherever our consciousness resides out there in the 23rd dimension or whatever, that all the information is going on back there. All the passage of information is going on back there. And then it's basically moving it back down into the neurons."
},
{
"end_time": 5636.527,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 5607.619,
"text": " And so we might never find the antenna because the antenna actually sits out there. Maybe consciousness, there's a great physicist, I think, and I have, I should find his... Is it George Hammaroff? No, no, it's a different, he's a German physicist from the 1950s, 60s or so. He came up with this physics of, you know, one of these grand theories of physics. And basically,"
},
{
"end_time": 5665.913,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 5636.783,
"text": " He's not well accepted by many people, but he's still followed by some. This notion that structures of physicality can be created, that he basically said that at a certain level of complexity of a structure that's formed, you can instantiate a self-perpetuating object, an entity, that he said is for all intents and purposes consciousness or the soul. So that his"
},
{
"end_time": 5695.913,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5666.613,
"text": " theory, his hypothesis, his premise was basically that evolution and brain structure, et cetera, the purpose of it was to basically create the flowering of an object that he would call consciousness that could then exist independently of the object that created it. It's sort of like was the that the body is a birth is a birth vessel for the formation. And he said, at least, I mean, there's lots of"
},
{
"end_time": 5722.227,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5696.425,
"text": " Interesting."
},
{
"end_time": 5751.357,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5723.37,
"text": " While Gary is going to get the book, off air I asked Gary about the connection between blood types and the phenomenon and he said there is none, as far as he could tell. We also weren't able to get into meditation and the phenomenon on air, so we'll save it for next time. If you're interested in someone who investigates UAPs and is an experienced Buddhist meditator, then I recommend you visit Christina Gomez's YouTube channel. There's a link in the description. Yeah, this is something that Jacques gave me."
},
{
"end_time": 5781.476,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5751.903,
"text": " I just had lunch with him yesterday up at his house, and he's got these book collections sitting around him, and I just get this lust in my heart for the book collection. So anyway, this is... Ludwig, Ludwigger? Illebrand von Ludwigger. And I mean, I don't understand the math. I don't even pretend to. But... Is he still alive as far as you know? No, I think he's dead."
},
{
"end_time": 5811.988,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5782.108,
"text": " But so basically this is like almost this is the end and I don't well, according to this theory is not that way. Yeah, according to this theory. But basically this structure that he draws here at the end is a visual representation of of how when a certain structure is created at the top of it through these levels of organization, consciousness would form because of it."
},
{
"end_time": 5840.196,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5813.114,
"text": " and that then you could take away the underlying structure that formed it, and then this would continue to exist independently. Which is interesting, the reason why I like this, and he didn't really talk about this, he talks about it in the context of biology, but if it's right, it means you could create"
},
{
"end_time": 5868.387,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5840.555,
"text": " an artificial intelligence, which was in and of itself, um, would could become conscious. You know, most, um, you know, scientists working in AI never think that we will have the ability to create a conscious. I mean, that anything that we create, uh, that looks conscious is just a darn good simulation of, of, uh, you know, it would pass the turning test."
},
{
"end_time": 5895.913,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5869.172,
"text": " but it would just be a darn good simulation. Uh, but it's not really conscious. Um, so, you know, it's so therefore it has no rights as far as human rights, as far as where, you know, it's a big argument that's been played out in science fiction for, for many years. What this guy is basically saying, I don't know anything about the math. I just find it interesting. I get interested in these kinds of ideas. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 5924.275,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5896.305,
"text": " that you could create an object. Humans might someday be able to, without using biology, but using purely materialistic approaches, build a sufficiently complex machine that creates an object with consciousness and a soul. That's fascinating. Go ahead. Did he say whether or not this soul would survive"
},
{
"end_time": 5953.541,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5925.23,
"text": " for an indeterminate amount of time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But yeah, that's what he's saying. Yeah. Take away the you can take away the thing that caused it and it lives unto itself. Now, now a lot of reason I'm asking about the time aspect is because like, imagine a flower, then it gives rise to some pollen. Well, that pollen lives independent of the flower, but the pollen also at some point dies. So I'm wondering, okay, just because it gives birth, it doesn't mean that it's indefinite. No, it doesn't mean it's indefinite. It means it needs a certain structure to, to create that. Okay."
},
{
"end_time": 5981.408,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5954.138,
"text": " I'll send you a copy of it if you want. It's fascinating. Again, I don't know the math and a lot of physicists just dismiss him outright. But as with any of these theories, there's a little often cult-like following of people who are absolutely determined to"
},
{
"end_time": 6010.162,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5981.869,
"text": " Gary and I spoke briefly over email afterward and Gary said the following to me with the caveat of letting the audience know that this is not what Gary actually thinks is quote-unquote true, it's simply interesting mathematics that expands one's thinking on the matter."
},
{
"end_time": 6030.35,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 6010.623,
"text": " Look at the last sentence of this document. Fascinating emergent property, he claims. Again, I don't know if this is true or anything, it's just fun to think about. The quote is, Moreover they can continue to exist autonomous as persona without material reconnection. Basically, consciousness or a soul, once created, can exist independently."
},
{
"end_time": 6056.698,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 6030.623,
"text": " I haven't done much research on this, but what are your thoughts on remote viewing, since we're on a similar tangent?"
},
{
"end_time": 6086.442,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 6057.841,
"text": " Well, I think it's like that guy, Tyler Henry, that I just spoke about on that Netflix show. Sweet guy, he's like 27 or so. And it's a form of coordinate remote viewing. That thing that Jacques basically came up with, the notion that the coordinate is really just a focusing device."
},
{
"end_time": 6116.869,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 6087.039,
"text": " It's not the means and it's not even the, the position of the object. You could be any series of numbers. It's just something that you use to link to the, to the, whatever it is you're trying to see. So this guy, Tyler Henry uses objects from the person that he's supposedly seeing. And, uh, you know, it's not that it has any,"
},
{
"end_time": 6143.114,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 6117.637,
"text": " The Sun released a 1500 page document or a set of documents related to UFOs"
},
{
"end_time": 6172.551,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 6143.558,
"text": " Now, I'm not sure if you had a chance to go through it, even with the cursory glance, but if you did, what stood out to you and what do you think that what made someone like you, even you say, wow, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Um, well, some of the cases that Kit was talking about, most of what was in there that the sun, uh, focused on, I haven't read the 1500 pages. I, you know, um, my students would probably kill me if I spent my time reading 1500 pages of somebody else's stuff rather than the papers I should be editing."
},
{
"end_time": 6201.442,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 6173.131,
"text": " Is there something that people should be focusing on that they aren't? That you're wondering, man, people, you're missing this. This is extremely crucial."
},
{
"end_time": 6233.729,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 6203.746,
"text": " whether it's in the sun or whether it's in all of these UFO reports that we've heard about. Well, let's separate the biology versus the materials aspect of it. What's missing is a focus on, I say this many times, the data collection. Bringing to bear real science efforts"
},
{
"end_time": 6263.729,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 6233.985,
"text": " at doing it and, and pointing out how little funding is going into it. It's being done on a, you know, literally out of people's pockets. So the focus needs to be on talking to friends, family, you know, uh, political representatives, et cetera, to say, would you please fund this and help us understand it because the questions aren't going away."
},
{
"end_time": 6294.343,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 6264.872,
"text": " So, you know, fund either the biology studies or fund the, you know, the material studies that are being done or should be done. I mean, I've talked about the stuff that I've spent money on personally myself and my time on it. You know, to do it right, you need to bring in for the materials, you need to bring real metallurgists"
},
{
"end_time": 6322.892,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 6294.889,
"text": " instrumentation that costs in the millions. You know, it's, and you can rent this stuff, you don't have to buy it, you can rent time on somebody else's machines. But then you still need people to analyze the data. So, you know, getting together, here's what I would love to see somebody set up is, you know, set up a consortium of people who have statistical analysis and metallurgical"
},
{
"end_time": 6352.944,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 6323.49,
"text": " analysis that if I create the data, they'll help me analyze it. And they'll do it in a, in a protected data, um, you know, CDA, you know, somebody drives, you know, writes a, you know, confidentiality disclosure agreement so that you, you get to, you work on the data first and it, you know, the day after you collect the data, somebody doesn't go to Twitter and put out some preliminary garbage or say something about the data."
},
{
"end_time": 6382.722,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 6353.456,
"text": " that I as the principal investigator know is not true. There's nothing worse than a preliminary data put out that somebody else says, well, you said this last year, now you're saying this here. So I would like to see somebody make an effort to create some sort of an analytics group that people like me could turn to to say,"
},
{
"end_time": 6413.114,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 6383.217,
"text": " Here is the data. Help me understand this. Because I don't have the time to do it. And so that would be great, whether it's biology or materials. So I want people to stop talking about and arguing about cases that happened long ago and start doing something prospective. Helping people do the analysis."
},
{
"end_time": 6439.582,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 6413.319,
"text": " Mick West, for all of the times that I, you know, kind of joke with him about his, his seagulls. With seagulls? Oh, online, he basically saying that some of the observations were seagulls and stuff like this. I mean, it's just ridiculous. But I mean, at least he has reached out and done some of the analysis, even though I think his analysis is faulty."
},
{
"end_time": 6469.735,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 6440.35,
"text": " This is what scientists do. They argue with somebody else's analysis, which is a good thing, right? Because, you know, at least, at least somebody's trying. Um, you know, and others then came out and said, okay, well, the gimbal video, you analyzed it wrong, Mick. Sorry. You know, it's, you know, uh, so we need, we need sort of, uh, an organization that somebody can turn to, to vet the data for us."
},
{
"end_time": 6500.401,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 6471.596,
"text": " No, and I mean, I'm involved with with Lou and others in trying to set something like that up. You know, because if no one else is going to do it, do it yourself. So we'll set it, we'll set something like that up. And that's independent from the Galileo project? Well, no, there's there's, I mean, the Galileo, one of the problems that when I'm now part of the Galileo project, and they're doing some, you know, amazing stuff,"
},
{
"end_time": 6529.411,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 6501.152,
"text": " is making sure that we aren't that they have a clear set of goals and but those goals are ever expanding because of course they're looking into some of the societal implications and things underneath and behind it so whatever it is that we create I don't want to overlap with stuff that they're already doing so you know that's why it's a good thing for me to be part"
},
{
"end_time": 6557.91,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 6529.889,
"text": " of both of these operations as we get them off the ground. What I was going to say before is that to speak in defense of someone like Mick West is that I happen to like people, even if I'm not saying Mick West is biased, but imagine that he is that he just doesn't believe the conclusion that these that it's non terrestrial. I happen to like speaking to people who are biased only because they're the ones who are most motivated to find some argument that you would not have found. And sometimes their arguments are great."
},
{
"end_time": 6588.029,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 6558.268,
"text": " Yeah. No, I don't mind him. I totally respect him. I brought him up primarily because he at least is trying. I wish in his, let's say in his Twitter profile, he basically says he's a debunker. And I don't like the term debunking because it basically says you're coming in looking to disprove"
},
{
"end_time": 6617.551,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 6588.66,
"text": " People have said that I'm a debunker. I'm not. I just want to explain. I come in with an open mind on either side because I have, as everybody knows, seen things that I personally can't explain or experience things that I personally can't explain and they don't have any conventional explanation. I'm biased because if anything, I'm trying to prove to myself that what I saw"
},
{
"end_time": 6645.572,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 6618.097,
"text": " or experienced was not the easy thing that I could reach to to say it was a UAP or some sort of non-human intelligence communicating with me. So I have a bias, but I would be perfectly happy to be proven 100% wrong that any of this stuff is"
},
{
"end_time": 6676.305,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 6646.561,
"text": " What are some of the experiences you mentioned that you haven't mentioned elsewhere? Because I'm sure people who have followed you. Oh, well, no, I mean, it's known that I saw a craft as a young boy went right over my head."
},
{
"end_time": 6706.305,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 6676.869,
"text": " Um, you know, 30, 40 feet above me, right at tree level. Um, I had no idea what it was when it happened. I didn't say, Oh, there's a UFO. It was silent. Silent. Yeah. Um, and you know, it's, it was only sometime in my twenties or thirties that it sort of clicked. I said, well, that was what you saw. Cause it always has been with me, you know, and the reason it was with it is with me. Cause I went around to the,"
},
{
"end_time": 6732.415,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 6706.715,
"text": " other people in the neighborhood to whom I was delivering papers at the time. And I said, did you know, did you see this? And I explained it to them. And they just sort of looked at me like, okay, kid, here's your paper money, you know, go away. So that's, you know, that's what drives me, which is why I would"
},
{
"end_time": 6760.077,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 6732.705,
"text": " you know, call myself an experiencer, because I'm looking to explain what it is that I saw. You know, it isn't to me proof of anything. But it's, it's to me something that shook me to my core. At the time, did it when you were a kid, even? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was just like this. How do you explain it? You just say, what was that?"
},
{
"end_time": 6788.848,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 6762.654,
"text": " So you remember when we talked about that there are some people who experienced seeing some phenomenon or some element. And there are some people who didn't who were right beside them. Now, in that were there some people or was it just an individual who saw and then others didn't? What I'm asking for was in was there inter subjective agreement between at least more than one person? Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In some of the cases. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the the the Council Bluffs case is the one in point where there were"
},
{
"end_time": 6816.391,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 6789.275,
"text": " like three individuals from different vantage points around the town, if council Bluffs, that all saw the same thing, a glowing blinking object that then dropped something bright to the ground. And it was bright because it was molten metal. And then they all arrived at the same time, pretty much. And the police showed up thinking it was a plane crash. And there was a blob. It was a giant blob of molten metal on the ground. And we got the pictures and everything."
},
{
"end_time": 6840.265,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 6816.988,
"text": " Unfortunately, those Polaroids go faint over time. Actually, if there's a person out there who knows how to restore old Polaroids to enhance the original colors that was there, it would be nice for them to reach out to me because we have the original Polaroids."
},
{
"end_time": 6865.384,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 6841.459,
"text": " Earlier you mentioned and many people mentioned this that it may be that there is some component of projections when it comes to UAPs and then it can't be all that because like you said, there's some physical evidence and then I was thinking I've heard this from many other people that depending on the culture at a specific time, the beings if there are beings, they make themselves comprehensible to that culture"
},
{
"end_time": 6894.343,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 6865.708,
"text": " Well, there's two kinds of projections. We think of projection in terms of our"
},
{
"end_time": 6924.616,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 6895.23,
"text": " you know, let's say current understanding a projection of something on a on a 2d movie screen, right? Now, you can have sort of a holographic projection, which is something which appears to be there. And, you know, as it is in and of itself emanating or reflecting light, there's a projection of something potentially into your head that makes you think you see something. But, you know, again, if you're talking about a technology that's"
},
{
"end_time": 6952.688,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 6925.401,
"text": " millions of years ahead of us, maybe it can project material objects. Jacques uses the term often, the phenomenon can take a hold of a volume of space and make a reality real. It can literally change space and manifest material objects. That's a form of a projection."
},
{
"end_time": 6982.568,
"index": 251,
"start_time": 6953.541,
"text": " At that point, does it still retain the word projection? Because if something was created here, then it persists in multiple view. Well, I mean, the question is, is what is created actually functional here in our reality? Or is it just a piece of plastic that's moved from behind the scenes and made to look like it does something? So for instance, let's talk about the so-called craft that people see. I mean,"
},
{
"end_time": 7011.237,
"index": 252,
"start_time": 6983.063,
"text": " I would like to think that there's an object with a physics and a physics that can be understood from sitting here in our 3D, 4D world. But maybe, let's say, there's a multi-dimensional reality and whatever it is that is driving these objects sits somewhere else. And it's basically something that it pokes into our reality"
},
{
"end_time": 7040.64,
"index": 253,
"start_time": 7011.8,
"text": " and it's moving it from elsewhere. It's made to look like it's moving here, but it has no functionality here. The functionality doesn't reside in our side of the veil. The functionality is elsewhere. So, you know, we might get one of these objects, let's say there's a crashed craft or beings or whatever, and they are no more real than"
},
{
"end_time": 7071.34,
"index": 254,
"start_time": 7041.425,
"text": " Okay, let me see if I get this analogy. So in there's this flat line, which I'm sure you do. And so if you're three, just for the people wondering what the heck that is, is if we're at least ostensibly 3D. And then if you look at your paper, if you were to touch your paper, and there was an ant on your paper that could only see what's on the paper, then all of a sudden, it would just see your fingernail and wonder what the heck is happening. And you can remove it and it would just"
},
{
"end_time": 7098.797,
"index": 255,
"start_time": 7071.681,
"text": " If you were to now move it through their flat land, left and right,"
},
{
"end_time": 7127.295,
"index": 256,
"start_time": 7099.241,
"text": " they would see no, nor even if they were to look at the object where it is, right, the pieces of plastic that are interfacing in their 2D, they would see no visible means of propulsion. The propulsion is your hand, moving it left, right and center. So imagine that this is what's going on here, that there's something else that's, the motility, the functionality is sitting elsewhere."
},
{
"end_time": 7157.892,
"index": 257,
"start_time": 7128.507,
"text": " and then what is here is just like a projection which is being held at arm's length and the purpose even looking at this which is a light right at the bottom there's just a base that's black and they would right they would have a hard time coming up with the purpose of that based on the base so you know I think we have to be prepared for some disappointments in a way because if if what I just said is is true we might get a hold of some of these things and never figure out how they work because"
},
{
"end_time": 7188.012,
"index": 258,
"start_time": 7158.746,
"text": " The engine is not here. The driving force is not here. But it is still a puppet which is used to interact with, or in Jacques' sense of the term, is the control feature, the control function, the control system. It still gets us to do stuff. We still dance around like a bunch of monkeys when we see this stuff."
},
{
"end_time": 7215.742,
"index": 259,
"start_time": 7188.319,
"text": " Its purpose, whatever that might be, is fulfilled. The monkeys saw us and then the monkeys will infer that there is an intelligence behind it. And that's all we ever wanted them to do, to think bigger, to explore the notion that they're not alone and maybe to learn how to do this themselves someday. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 7241.988,
"index": 260,
"start_time": 7216.408,
"text": " Are there people from the government who watch every one of your appearances, perhaps even watch the appearances of people like Lou, to make sure that you're not revealing too much?"
},
{
"end_time": 7270.794,
"index": 261,
"start_time": 7242.773,
"text": " And so who are these people? Are there multiple individuals as a department? Do they tap your phone? No, well, I just got to be careful what I say. I mean, I have been told I should make the assumption that the things that I say are being watched, not just by US, but by others. And so obviously I try to be careful. I try to hold all confidences that I'm"
},
{
"end_time": 7299.241,
"index": 262,
"start_time": 7271.561,
"text": " either sworn to or agreed to, you know, as best as possible. At one level, I can't worry about these people, right? I mean, I, I, I've got to just do what it is that I'm doing. Uh, until somebody tells me not to do something, I'm going to do it. You know, I'm not, you know, or if it's obvious I shouldn't be doing, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to put myself or my family in danger, but I have, I've not felt that way. Uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 7330.247,
"index": 263,
"start_time": 7300.947,
"text": " You know, I mean, I'm not so much worried about the government. I'm worried about there's any of a number of people who are, let's say, unstable out there in the world, who have nothing to do with the government, who will be convinced that I'm doing something that I should be stopped. You know, I'm part of some grand conspiracy or I know somebody asked a question on that thread about, am I being paid for by something that I haven't disclosed as if I"
},
{
"end_time": 7354.172,
"index": 264,
"start_time": 7330.555,
"text": " as if there's an agenda driving my every word. No, not yet at least. Gary, thank you very much. Thank you so much. We've had this sort of personal, you know, what are our mental issues or attempts to be more productive."
},
{
"end_time": 7383.439,
"index": 265,
"start_time": 7354.77,
"text": " Uh, you know, and, you know, I also want you to know, and people to know that like, luckily, luckily man, like I'm a, I mean, I'm generally an extremely psychologically stable person. Some of those experiences that I mentioned recently have set me on edge. So I'm so hypersensitive now that I wouldn't call myself stable right now, but generally I am, and I'm lucky for that. And you seem like you're stable as well. So that's good despite your experiences. Supposedly. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 7400.367,
"index": 266,
"start_time": 7384.189,
"text": " Some of my colleagues might not agree, but that's okay. All right, man. Take care and I will ask you for that book if you don't mind. Well, you can send me the title and I'll get it. I'll send you the title. Yeah. Okay. All right. Take care of my friend. Thanks so much, Kurt. Okay. Bye bye. Goodbye."
},
{
"end_time": 7425.555,
"index": 267,
"start_time": 7401.715,
"text": " So now the podcast is over. It's generally frustrating. Maybe you're experiencing the same, where there's a dearth of content, new information when it comes to the UFO scene, and it feels like plenty of ground is being trodden and then retrodden. And so for me, one of the reasons that I focus on the physics and the consciousness is because there's plenty that's new and even inspirational there. That is, it inspires some other ideas for"
},
{
"end_time": 7452.142,
"index": 268,
"start_time": 7425.964,
"text": " possible connections to UAPs. And if you're watching the Toe Podcast primarily for the UFO content, I recommend that you at least check out one of the physics videos or one of the consciousness videos. There's plenty that's rich there, that's new, that is inextricably tied or may, let's not say inextricably tied, but has implications for the phenomenon. However, at the same time, I'm not dismayed whenever someone goes over the same ground"
},
{
"end_time": 7477.619,
"index": 269,
"start_time": 7452.654,
"text": " repeatedly because there's plenty that can be gained by viewing some phenomenon from slightly different perspectives. So for example, even when someone publishes a peer-reviewed paper with data, it's often still insightful to interview the scientist and find out, well, what worked and what didn't work, and what data was excluded, and what data is extraneous, and why do you think that it's extraneous, and that gives you insight into the initial data despite the data being the same."
},
{
"end_time": 7505.998,
"index": 270,
"start_time": 7477.756,
"text": " Believe I spoke about this on the podcast with Jordan Peterson, where he invited me onto his platform. I was blessed enough for that to have occurred. And so I'll leave a link in the description if you'd like to hear more. One should also know I'm undecided as to how much I'm going to be continuing to explore UFOs alone rather than UFOs as connected to physics and consciousness. However, one of the reasons why one should explore despite the ground being the same that they're covering is that"
},
{
"end_time": 7536.374,
"index": 271,
"start_time": 7506.903,
"text": " At least in mathematics and physics, it's known that one can almost never investigate something rudimentary too much, that there's often extreme insight to be gained, that when you think you understand something as simple as, let's say, a compact space, then Terry Tao comes out with an article and you realize, okay, my understanding is deep and despite me thinking was at the maximum that it could be. Same with Kalmagorov, who's famous for Kalmagorov complexity. So you'd think he'd come out with articles about what is complicated,"
},
{
"end_time": 7562.278,
"index": 272,
"start_time": 7536.766,
"text": " He had an whole essay. A whole essay just on the equal sign. And you thought, well, I understand what the equal sign is until you read Kolmogorov's essay. So plenty can be gleaned just from retrotting the same ground. I understand that at the same time. Okay. Thank you so much for watching. And as I said in the beginning, there's an April Fools video called Ranking of Toes or the Ranking of the Toes. I recommend you watch that if you want to get a different flavor on this channel. I put plenty of time and effort into that and people seem to enjoy it."
},
{
"end_time": 7589.906,
"index": 273,
"start_time": 7562.739,
"text": " So hopefully you will as well. Plenty of jokes made about some of the figureheads in the UFO scene. Take care. The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash C-U-R-T-J-A-I-M-U-N-G-A-L. That is Kurt Jaimungal. It's support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you."
}
]
}No transcript available.