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Tom Delonge on Alien Bodies, Steven Greer's CE5, Skin Walker, and Luis Elizondo's Departure
December 24, 2021
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This is a repost of the interview with Tom DeLong and Jim Semivan from Professor Brian Keating's podcast Into the Impossible, which took place on August 12th, 2021. Tom DeLong is the co-founder of the rock band Blink-182, as well as the more pertinent To the Stars Academy, which investigates UFOs. Jim Semivan is also a founding member of the To the Stars Academy, as well as being a former employee of the CIA for 25 years.
Brian Keating is an experimental physicist who has a channel interviewing various Nobel Prize winners, among others, which can be found at youtube.com slash Dr. Brian Keating. Links are in the description, and I recommend you subscribe to his content. Many haven't seen this conversation, so I'm reposting here with improved audio, timestamps, and a minor amount of extra footage. If you'd like to see more conversations like this, then do consider supporting at patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal.
I think I know how to do it. I'm always a bit concerned because sometimes
when I live stream, it shows me a previous stream. And so I asked the audience, can you please, and I asked them to say a unique word, like let's say Pokemon or Bulbasaur, because then I know, okay, you're seeing this one. So there's 204 people waiting. That's cool. 210. Wow. That's nice. That's big for me. It's small for Kurt. Now, are you, is there anything off limits, uh, Jim, like Luel Elizondo, is that okay to talk about or? Oh no, Lou's a great guy. We, we,
Lou, Chris, we're all buddies and we talk a lot. Haven't talked to Lou though in about a month. Chris, Mellon and I probably every few days we're exchanging emails. The only thing I can't get into is any detailed questions on CIA, what CIA is doing. Sure. Half my questions, man. That's why I haven't been on a lot of these shows. I mean, I don't
Jim, you also mentioned that both Brian and myself come recommended by who? Just friends of mine in the community. I mean, you know, I'm not talking to any senior government officials saying listen, listen to these guys, but
No, just friends in the community. If you're going to get on something, you want to do something with credibility and good reputation, this is where you want to go. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's a huge, huge compliment. Well, I think it's true. And Brian, I heard of you too a long time ago. I actually did a recruiting session out at University of California, San Diego back in, I think 2000 and gosh, one or two,
I was using a fake name and I was recruiting for the clandestine service. What a great group of students you had though. Yeah, we have some great students and good patriots there. That's really great. I'm glad to hear that. Next time you're in town, let me know. Or next time I come out to the loophole state of Delaware, I'd love to meet you.
We'll be ready to go. So what we're going to do is we're going to introduce ourselves. We're going to talk a little philosophy. So I'll start first. Kurt will go next. Jim will go next. And then you'll go and like kind of what your mission is in life and kind of description, how you got involved in this. I'll say some words of platitudes in the beginning. And, you know, our goal is to be, discuss things, not debate. I think debate is pointless. People get all mired in, in accusations and whatnot. So I just want to have it be high level discussion for the benefit of humanity. Okay.
All right, man. So we're going to go live if I can get this all set up. Preparing this meeting as being live stream. Got it. Yep. Hopefully this will work and we'll shoot out to the internet. Kirk, can you check the live stream is working on urine? It'll take approximately 15 seconds. Welcome everybody to a very special conversation between three of my friends, some more
But discussion is very valuable.
together members of different communities communities from academia represented by me from the military represented by Jim or the government from by Jim and from lay people who have really been responsible for getting this excitement this attention that this subject needs out to the public and of course that's speaking of Tom DeLong who's joining us from to the stars Academy.
Jim is joining us from the East Coast, Jim Sevivan, and my friend Kurt Jaimungal, who runs a wonderful channel, which you should all subscribe to, called Theories of Everything. I've been a guest, many other guests had on people from Lou Elizondo to many others in this community. I'm more of a neophyte novice and I'm more interested in doing what Galileo said. So my hero, as everybody knows who subscribes to my channel is Galileo Galilei. Here's a finger puppet.
We're going to get one of Tom and Jim at some point. Galileo said, let us measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not. And I'm pleased to say I have become a member of the Galileo project at Harvard University.
which just started just about a couple of weeks ago. I'm on their scientific advisory board. And I joined that not because I have so much free time as the chancellor's professor of physics at UC San Diego and the co-director of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination, but because I think this is a very, very important subject, not the least of which, because I hope to learn some of the physics of the advanced future. If indeed we are being visited by an advanced extraterrestrial civilization, or perhaps as Tom calls them threats in either case,
I think it's fascinating. So I'd love to introduce today my guests and first to confirm that my friend Kurt is out there and he can hear us. Kurt, can you please introduce yourself and your channel? Sure. My name is Kurt. I'm uncle. I'm a filmmaker with a background in math and physics. I'm particularly interested in the theoretical ends of physics, something called theories of everything. The channel that I host podcasts on is called theories of everything.
Essentially, what are the fundamental laws of the universe? Investigating that as well as the possible connection those laws have to consciousness and free will and even God. My interest in UFOs is because there seems to be an intimate tie between UFOs and consciousness. There's almost a direct tie between physics and UFOs because they defy our known laws and I'm interested in it. I happen to think that innovation will come from the fringes rather than the center or at least be informed by the fringes.
Yeah, thank you, Kurt. And I want to remind people who want to leave questions, please put it in the live chat. We are live. It is Thursday, 2.38 PM on the Pacific time zone. Next up is Jim Semven, who has a very, very impressive biography. But I thought maybe he could introduce himself and talk about maybe how he came to come to know Tom. Oh, well, thank you very much. And thank you very much for having me on your program. I've heard about you, and I'm really happy to be here.
I met Tom five years ago. There was a group of intelligence community, defense department people that studied this topic for a long time, very informally and unofficially.
And we had got together, I got a phone call from one of them one day and he said, do you know this fella named Tom DeLong? And I said, no, he said blink 182. I said, no, it doesn't ring any bells. He said, well, he wrote a book called secret machines chasing shadows. And there's a lot of information in that book that that is well running true to form. And we don't know whether or not some of the information on
some of the programs that the US government had was being leaked or not. And we knew that Tom, well, at least I was told that Tom had a lot of senior government officials that he was in touch with his his advisors. So I, we took it upon ourselves to go talk to Mr. DeLong. And, and I was the one basically asked, Well, why don't you figure it out? You know, you're you're the you're the operations officer, you know, you did this for a living
So I flew out to San Diego and had a very, very nice chat with Tom. And it became apparent right away that Tom, not only being a very nice guy, but extremely bright guy, but he had put together all this data that he had been hearing and listening to. And actually two and two came out to four. I was rather surprised. Clearly there was no leak of classified information as far as I was concerned, but Tom sort of hit the nail on the head.
So then we had, I think, breakfast the next day with some other people. Dr. Putoff, and I won't name the other people that were there. They may not want their names known, but luminaries in the field. And that's when we started. Tom asked me if we could maybe work with him on To The Stars, and we agreed to do that. And I think, Tom, we sketched out what
Great. That's great to hear. And actually, Jim, I'm sorry, Tom, this will probably hurt your ego a lot.
But my audience and Kurt's audience are really like, they're impressed that you're on Tom, but they're like, we really want to hear from Jim. All of us are the same way. That's the first time in my life anybody wanted to hear from me, but all right. So Tom, you have many distinctions. Of course, you're a guitarist and you could probably be on the beach here in San Diego.
And next time we got to do this in person down up in Encinitas or wherever. But you could spend your whole days, you know, cashing royalty checks from your awesome musical career. And yet you don't do that. You don't rest on your laureate laurels, so to speak. And you've taken on this new mission. And really, you know, I have to confess, you know, in the beginning, when I first heard it, I was like, oh, why is this guy interested? He's not a scientist. He's not a military pilot. But you actually made this into an issue. I would have to say more than almost anyone in popular culture, you've made this an issue. Why is this so important to you?
You know, I've always been fascinated with like, kind of why we're here and what this is all about anybody that has any kind of similar wiring to me would understand, you know, growing up in a broken family and like,
I got kicked out of high school, you know, I just read a lot of bad tough kids and and I and my parents didn't get along, you know, and I just looked around a lot and I said this doesn't make any sense to me like really like somehow by accident or some weird design like I'm just supposed to only care about my bickering family and my my
School that I didn't really fit into and go and get a job that I hate so I kind of started early on on a quest of like not being like my parents, you know and and working for myself and I was I was an artist I wanted to create things but as an artist, you know You want people to emotionally get moved by the art that you're creating the whole good job of an artist is to digest the world and
And with your point of view, you kind of regurgitate it back to somebody, then they get to digest it and hopefully they see other points of view. I mean, that's what we do. That is our job description. So when I looked around, I was like, none of this makes sense. You know, what really moves me would be like, what's the layer deeper than all this? And that's when I started realizing
that there's an entire like kind of esoteric study out there that deals with consciousness and UFOs and, you know, cosmology and all these different things. But really, when you when you get into UFOs, at first, it's fascinating. At first, it's like, oh, my God, conspiracy theory, you know, this is fun. And then you start kind of going, wait,
Some of the shit is like real. There's no way there's an astronaut here. There's like a president. There's like, you know, director of the CIA or some admiral and you're kind of going, wait a second. And then you start diving deeper. And then when you dive deeper, I always tell people it's
you're not studying like events, really. I mean, those are fine. And you get into those the first few years. But really, if you study the subject, you're you're like Jim said, it's like, you know, you're getting into quantum mechanics, you're getting into consciousness, and you're looking at archaeology differently and petroglyphs and stuff. And you start to really soak in all the branches of the tree. And it seemed to me that all those things combined, it really created a glue
In my mind, at least, that tied together so many disparate ends of what mankind is all about and what's been going on. It almost fit like a perfect puzzle piece. Not that I know everything. I don't know if anyone does, but for me, and it just became very evident that this was like, oh my, this is a puzzle piece that fits. It fits
in all these things that I grew up, you know, having interactions with from like religion to government, national security stuff to advanced technology stuff to the history of mankind and so on. And I'm still on that quest. But on another note, it's the only thing that ever took me out of the maddening kind of obsession of trying to write a better song. Like when you're in a band, it's
or you're painting a painting, any kind of art, it's only going to be as good as how much time you can put into it. And so what you end up doing is putting all your time into it, especially if you work for yourself. It's like your wife's like, join the family and you're playing guitar at one in the morning, go, no, I got to figure out this melody. Well, this is like the one thing that got me out of that because I need to learn all the time. I don't really like like predictable movies. I don't like normal fiction books and stuff, but this was like a fiction story.
But that has a bunch of things you can learn. It's like, it's just as fascinating, but you can really enrich your mind and soul by diving into some of these branches of the tree, you know, so here I am 20 years later, I put some good pieces together. But as Jim will tell you, the first day I met Jim, I was like, thank God, you know, he's like,
Who are you and what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm looking for somebody to work with me. I think we can do something great for the world. I just don't really know how to do it by myself. I need, I need some help. And thankfully, Jim and a bunch of the people that he knew and was working with felt the same way. It's, it was just a good time to come together. Do you ever get, you know, kind of the, I'm sure you've had your share of
of negative influences, maybe people that don't like you in some way for your music or this research. Do you find any commonalities though in kinds of the support or maybe the negative attention that you get? Because on the face of it, yes, there are aspects of it. But I would think naively, scientists, pilots, et cetera, we'd be the most interested. But you made the interesting point that it's part of culture.
And people don't appreciate that science is a form of culture to equal in every respect, in my opinion, to arts and you know, and letters and so forth. So do you find commonality there, Tom, just from the two different careers that you've had? I do. I mean,
You know, it's funny, like one of the one of the when I was working with and I was building relationships with people before I knew Jim, that were, you know, high ranking former government officials or military people and stuff. I remember I wanted to thank them for their time listening to me, you know, and so one way to thank them that I came up with was in
the government kind of military industrial complex world, they all create these challenge coins. Have you ever seen the challenge coins where it's like, I've got one here. Yeah, you got one there. Well, for the people watching, it's like, you know, these little coins that have like your platoon name on there, maybe the things you believe in, maybe it's the operation you're a part of. And here's one from my buddy in Afghanistan. Yeah, they all make them. They go.
So these little coins, you bring them out of bars and you owe each other drinks depending on who's got a better coin or whatever. So I decided to make a challenge point and I put on there the Vitruvian man, which was Da Vinci's, you know,
two arms, two, you know, or four arms, four legs kind of thing. But what that stood for was art and science. And what I really liked about that, and this all comes full circle to your question was, art and science to me was something measurable with something that's infinite, you know, it's consciousness and zeros and ones to some degree. But when they come together, I think for the longest time, we've always separated consciousness and things that we don't understand,
And we put it in religion, we just go, that's God's world. So we can't know that we can't measure that. Yeah, there you go. And, and so consciousness in metaphysics, and things we don't understand was supernatural paranormal. And it was in the realm of the Old Testament or something, you know,
or other religions. But the Vitruvian man, this idea of bringing consciousness and science or art and science together, because art is really just a stream of consciousness. You're making things up. So the question is, is where are you getting that? You're some type of antenna, and you're pulling it from consciousness, in my view. So I use this on a challenge point to say, look, as an artist,
And as something that's scientifically based here, if we can merge these together, the future of science, I think, is going to be once we understand consciousness, we take the realm of what used to be all religion or something, and we merge it with science, and now we got like this theory of everything. So I wanted to say that my project was that. It was an artist working with things that are tangible and measurable. And so I made these challenge coils, I put the Vitruvian man on there, and I gave them to everybody. And
And for me, I got the same rush as being an artist, but with this, because I really felt that I was, I was putting something together with a point of view that people really haven't been able to spend time with or study or look at or notice. And it became kind of like the guiding North Star, the light, you know, was the merging of these two things. And it's just been a hell of a lot of fun along the way.
I'm curious and I'm clueless. When I research this topic, I'm just baffled and bewildered constantly. I don't know what to think.
When I spoke to Travis Walton recently, some people thought that I was a skeptic. That's actually not true. I'm asking detailed questions because I want to know what was the air like on this alien ship? I want to know what did the glass rod feel like? Was it heavy? Was gravity the same? And so on. So if I ask you detailed questions, please, it's out of a place of love. I'm curious to know about Skinwalker. You're asking Jim, right? I can ask whoever wants to answer.
What's going on at Skinwalker and what's its connection to UFOs? Well, I am by no means an expert on Skinwalker Ranch. Tom and I know all the people that are involved. George, Calm, Kelleher, and George Knapp, Calm, Kelleher. I've never met Mr. Bigelow. I was supposed to at one point, but it never happened.
I think that's a fascinating case. But I don't know whether I can actually discuss that in any kind of meaningful way because I wasn't there and I wasn't part of it. I read the book like everybody else. John Alexander is a dear friend of mine and he was there and we talk about it quite a bit. I think what had happened there was true and accurate and real. But I also believe that when you go looking for the phenomenon,
It basically doesn't show itself. It doesn't like to do that. And after 40 years of studying that, you know, it's that low observability thing going on, you know, why we can never get a good picture of UAP. For some strange reason, it doesn't want to go there. So you mentioned earlier, you're dazed and confused. Well, yeah, I'm about as dazed and confused as you are by the whole thing. I have my own opinions based on what I know and based on what I've read, but
Skinwalker is fascinating. From everybody I know that been there and done that, including some people that were not mentioned in the book, which I don't want to get into, but it's a pretty serious place and a lot of serious things happen there. But I'll let Tom go and talk more about that. Sure. What I find fascinating about Skinwalker is that you basically have the convergence of multiple
you know, things happening, you know, so when you look at UFOs, you can find stories where somebody might come out and their cattle are missing or there's, you know, a cattle mutilation where blood is gone or parts of the jar dissected, maybe an eyeballs gone, maybe the reproductive, reproductive organs are gone or whatever. And a lot of like really
weird things about it, like maybe the cuts are in between cells, maybe there's no vascular collapse, maybe it happened within 10 minutes when the farmer turned around or something. Then you have people that might have seen lights in the sky the night before when it happened.
You know, then there's people that have paranormal feelings, they might have seen like, you know, some type of entity that's invisible or something, they weren't quite sure. Then you have poltergeist events and other houses, whatever. But what's weird about skinwalkers, they were all happening there, you know, so you have all these things happening in one location. But as Jim said, it's like,
super elusive. It's almost like it'll watch you be there for a week. And then the night you're driving away to go home, it's like you look in your rearview mirror and there's something crazy, you know, and it almost toys with you. That was something that they all seem to say, like it seemed like it knew that you wanted to see something you want to do something, whatever. What I find fascinating is that you have this one location where so many things are happening. And it's documented by a bunch of government people, a bunch of PhD scientists, a bunch of people that have lived there. And
And not only documented over like a few months, we're talking like decades, you know, and it's kind of a hotspot where you can kind of dig into trying to find why are they all happening at this one location. And what interests me is that I think it gives us a potential pathway to discuss some
alternate candidates for where they're from or what they're doing or how it all works. I think most people like to think of UFOs as they're coming from another planet. We found an exoplanet and it's coming there and how do they travel? Well, they could do it in 30 years and they go fast. Well, the data doesn't seem to suggest that really. It's more what's happening at Skinwalker where it seems like
It's more about frequencies and dimensional or they materialize. It's almost like their displacement craft that displaces our time like a submarine would in the ocean. And that was a lot of what Dr. Hal Pudoff worked on on ATIP was understanding the attributes of the propulsion and the science that they're using. And I think once you think about UFOs using that kind of a technology,
then it's kind of like well if they do that if they use that that means there's things that are adjacent to us that we don't see we don't understand but are like right here and every once in a while they can kind of cross over is it because we're aware of it and can see it and that opens it or is it because it's a geomagnetic
area where those types of things have an easier time coming through. Or is it everywhere and we just think it's in one location? I don't know. I mean, there's a story that even happened there where they like, you know, they were there and they and they're talking about like government grade PhDs where they watch, you know, something in the atmosphere open up and something come through, not sure what it is.
And it was a huge event. So they run down to grab the cameras and see what was on the cameras. They open up these lock boxes and then like all the electronics are missing in the cameras. And they're like, wait, what? Like these were locked up. It's like a game. And so it gets really interesting where
Is it a game? I don't know, but it might be a consciousness thing. And so I get passionate about a place like that because it gives you the ability to do to really jump into some wild stuff. I mean, one of the scientists there was walking through a field and they basically saw, you know, they saw they walked past
Are you related or like a life?
It was no, it was alive, you know, and then they run back into the house to go grab a gun or something to take care of it. And when they come out now, it has four broken legs, you know, or something. It's like creepy and like causing alarm because number one, it makes no sense. Number two, it's like, it's happening so quick that they can't even, and I got family showing up from the beach or, you know, you see people behind me, but you mentioned the beach, they all went to the beach earlier.
What it seems to be is that it's an issue with time and an issue with moving it from here to here where we can't see it and back, and then people will see crap. I don't know. It's just wild, and it's so fascinating. I always tell people in Hollywood, because Tooth of Stars is getting into making movies and TV series and documentaries and stuff, and I just go, you don't need to sensationalize this stuff. You don't need to come up with
Have you come up with any theories as to why cattle mutilations occur? Me personally? Or heard any that you found to be interesting, credible?
Well, I wouldn't have any science to back anything up. So I can tell you, I'm a dreamer, you know, so I can come up with a bunch of ideas. I have some, you know, I've heard scientists discuss, you know, tracking our food supply, you know, trying to see if there's
things that are in our food supply that are affecting kind of how we evolve. Okay, that wasn't interesting. And there's a lot more to it, but it's not my place to get into that. I've heard people discuss that, you know, it's genetics or something. It's understanding a bit more about, you know, the life here on earth or whatever, then you get into way more far out stuff is maybe it has something to do with genetics with man, because maybe bovine type samples deal with
You know, the blood or the, I don't know, like the glands or something to do with, you know, people want to go way out and be science fiction about it, but I just don't know. And I think, I just think that what we are hearing is that people are seeing lights and craft in the sky in areas where they find these things. We know they're happening and have been happening for decades and decades, like not just like a few, like thousands.
But no one really knows the reason why. Maybe someone somewhere in some basement knows, but I don't want to pretend that I know because I don't. But I do know people who've been studying this for like 30 years and they all tend to say the same thing. It's like it's happening in a way
that doesn't look like we can pull off what we're finding it just looks way i mean they found cattle with organs like their heart missing but no incisions anywhere like somehow they reached in and just grabbed it and pulled it out you know so it's like what does that mean what is i don't know but it's it's it's wild for sure how do you take the reaction in terms of
You know, people coming and saying, you are basically a repository for people to come forward to come out, etc. That's, you know, it's sort of a unique role for you, Tom, right? It's, it's now you're almost like a priest in confessional and, and people coming exactly.
How is that? How do you deal with that pressure? How do you deal with the, with the notion of, you know, kind of this, this you become the face and symbolizing a lot of this. And, and there's a wonderful clip that one of your fans put out on Twitter. I saw yesterday or a couple of days, you know, it was like what you said in 2017, you know, Joe Rogan show. And then like slowly, as they say, you know, first
creative ideas are dismissed as lunacy, then they're mocked, then they're ridiculed, then they're accepted as trivial and known all along. So now that these Pentagon report, which we have to get into, and maybe I'd love to hear, get Jim's take first on that. Jim, when this came out, did you feel like it answered more questions? For me, I felt like it answered more questions. I mean, honestly, I am a skeptic.
I have to say, as a scientist, there's no one, Tom and Jim, Kurt already knows this, that would be more kind of thrilled, delighted to skip the line, as my friend James Altucher says, and go from the physics of 2021 to the physics required, maybe 2121 or beyond. I would love to do that. First of all, I'd get multiple Nobel prizes.
Second of all, I would satisfy the personal curiosity that sounds like Tom and Jim and Kurt. We all have to understand the nature of reality, because let's face it, guys, we're only here for a short amount of time. We're given maybe the biblical age of 120. That's about it. But if we could skip that line, avoid death, avoid, you know, interstellar, you know, kind of have the secrets to these advanced technologies and
to advance knowledge. That to me is the pinnacle of what homo sapiens could achieve. Jim, when you look at this, when you hear these complaints and so forth, people being skeptic, do you feel like skeptics have a point? I mean, are we just like kind of curmudgeons and we're just not hearing the truth that you guys are telling or, you know,
You have feet in both worlds. You're in the military and the government, but you're also in the community that Tom's in. What do you feel is the right approach here? Believe everything, believe nothing. How do you split those atoms? That's an excellent question. I think you just said it. Believe everything, believe nothing. I'm not a skeptic by the stretch of the imagination. I was not surprised in the least when the
When the UAP Task Force report came out, I understood what it was going to be. It's just an adumbration. It was an outline of what they're planning on doing. There's no way they can put together any kind of substantive report, any kind of intelligence assessment based on this in the short amount of time that they had. And they only took 144 incidents. My god. I mean, that's just from the Navy.
I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of incidents that have happened that credible witnesses have seen. So I wasn't surprised. I thought the writing in there was obviously done by the DNI. It was very, very well crafted, very tight writing. I think they took some pot shots at the Air Force, which I'm glad they did, because I don't know where the hell the Air Force has been in all this. Well, actually, I sort of do, but
Um, uh, but the most important piece I felt, uh, was the deputy secretary defense memo. They came out at the same time that was issued on July 25th. That memo came out and said, knock it off. Cat's out of the bag. We are going to go after this. We're going to, we're going to develop requirements and requirements are basically means that it's an intelligence term for, uh, for questions. We're going to develop these questions. Everybody's going to have to answer them.
And, and, and, and we're going to put money towards this. We're going to put people towards this. That's huge. That's absolutely huge. And, um, and, uh, so I thought I was very, very happy when, when, when, when I saw that now, when they talked about in the report, you know, they had these, these areas, these categories, you know, about what they think it could be, you know, air, air clutter and, and, and what have you, and then going down, it could be this, it could be that it could be the Russians or Chinese.
Look, I've studied Russian and Chinese high technology for my whole career. These UAPs, or whatever the hell they are, I mean, we call them UAPs, we really don't know what they are. They're not Russian, and they're not Chinese. And they're definitely not ours. They're just not. That leaves nothing.
left, except they're something else. And what that something else is, I don't know. I was on TV a couple of weeks ago when I called it. I was prodded by the producers that say something, say something. And I called it I called it a non human technology. And I guess that's the best way I can go. But I don't think science right now
has the ability to look at this in a way that they want to look at it and it's not their fault and it's because you know there's no reliability here, there's no predictability here. This phenomenon plays with us, it teases us, it cajoles us, it gets close but you can't get too close to it. Sometimes it appears to people up close and personal, other times it doesn't.
But if you notice with the Navy, I mean, you know, what is it actually saying? I mean, you know, are they trying to communicate with us or are they basically just trying to affect us socioculturally? When you talked earlier about cattle mutilations, hell yeah, cattle mutilations are real, don't really know what's happening with them. But when you look at what the real effect of that is, the real effect of that is, is all of us sitting here and looking at that,
And all of a sudden, our cultural norms and social norms, things change. Things change. And I know Jacques Vallee talks about this quite a bit. And I'm a huge fan of his. Are they here to basically change us? Are they more of a control mechanism? And the answer is that we don't know. We have tons of questions, zero answers. I think science has a huge, huge way ahead of them. I mean, it's going to be very, very difficult.
But I don't think we have any options except to investigate this. But it's clearly not human. Not human as we know it, yes. Kurt, you've had Jack on. What are your takes? And also Kevin Newth, who's a physics professor in New York State. Talk about your peregrinations, your explorations of this phenomenon. Kurt, what have you kind of surmised as a physicist, as a scientist? What kinds of thoughts do you have about
Approaching this from the colleague of, as you know, our colleagues are very skeptical of some of these kinds of cattle mutilation. What does that have to do with physics? What does that have to do with aliens and other planets and where would they come from? How would they get here? How could these are anyway, Kurt, my brother, tell me, what do you make of your explorations of this as a topic? How have you been influenced, changed, perhaps not mutilated, but how has your mind gotten mutilated in a certain sense? Where do you stand now?
Well, I'm probably, much like most people here, used to be a staunch skeptic, an ardent one, an arrogant one. Not saying that you're not arrogant at all, Brian, but most are, let's say. That's not true. And now I don't know what to think. I don't know if you've played this game called Metal Gear Solid, but at some points when you get spotted, there's an exclamation point that goes over the guard's head. I feel like that all the time, just constantly. What the heck is happening? What the heck is this? What does this mean? How does this fit with this?
So I don't know, I don't even know if there's one alien species, if it's a subspecies, if there are aliens to begin with, if it's multiple races, if it's factions, I don't know. Can I add something to this conversation? Let me give you the government perspective on this. As an intelligence officer for a long, long time, I will tell you,
that back in 1945, actually, you know, this phenomena has been seen since the beginning of time, all major religions have talked about it. We started seeing more of it in the 40s, actually during World War Two, and then later on afterwards, when General Twining came out in 1947, and basically said, look, these are real, these are serious, we're going to have to look at it. And then we had project sign, project grudge, and then, you know, the, you know, blue block, and then
We had all these other things, the Condon report and what have you, where they basically came out and said, screw it, we're not going to do this anymore. Absolute nonsense. There's no way that the Air Force or the intelligence community is going to give up on something like this. That is a very, very real
phenomenon that we don't, I don't think it's a threat at all, to be honest with you. I just, I think it's totally indifferent to who the hell we are, but, but nevertheless, it has to be looked at. The military and the intelligence community does not ignore that. They will not ignore that. And, you know, and, and, and this, it's always going to be bubbling up in the background. It may be in some deep black program, some hidden someplace, but I would be shocked and surprised if that isn't what's going on, that we haven't been seriously studying this
for the last 70 or 80 years. There's no way. There's no way. When you look at the Stargate program, that was a direct reaction to Soviet experiments in psychic phenomena. They were doing that. We had to figure out why they were doing that and what they found out. And I can tell you other stories. I mean, crazy technology to think didn't know exists, but actually do exist.
and and you you find out that other other countries are working on them or trying them and say what have you look there's a huge national national security element in all this too so i mean you know nobody wants to share this data publicly because as they say you know you tell your friends you tell your enemy so a lot of that stuff is hidden and i i don't blame the government for hiding a lot of this stuff either if there is a true and honest national security uh problem associated with this but you know i i just find it extremely difficult uh
with skeptics who, who tell me like when they see this stuff and they go, well, I don't know what it is. Look at that's agreeable. I mean, I don't know what it is either, but it is there and no one has an answer to it. And, and please don't tell me it belongs to, you know, China or Russia or some other act. That's just nonsense. I think that was an out that the UAP task force had to use. Um, um, I mean, once you've read the literature, once you've been read in, it's read in on some of these programs, just, I'm sorry, it just,
I'm not a skeptic that exists. I just don't know what the hell it is.
your quote, opponents perspective. In other words, what's the best argument you've heard counter to your own position, Jim and Tom, especially. But before I do that, I want to just make, take a reset and tell everybody who we're talking to Tom DeLong, of course, the to the stars Academy and also Jim some event of to the stars Academy, former CIA play and Kurt J. Mungle host of the theories of everything channel, which has done yeoman's work. Kurt, you're, you're really a role model in many ways to many YouTubers.
We've got a lot of people listening, Jeremy Reese in the chat room and many other people. But Tom, I want to ask you, when I talk to my fellow scientists about this, and I talked to somebody who's a member of, I don't know if you're familiar with this organization called the Jason's. Jason's are a secret. I'm sure Jim knows about them too. So they actually meet here in San Diego once a year, at least they did before COVID. And they tell me, I said, wouldn't you think like the best and brightest would be at least interested involved in this? And they said, no, they haven't asked us, the government hasn't asked us to investigate it.
We're not just going to go off and investigate stuff on our own. Why would this organization, assuming he's telling me the truth and she, there's actually multiple people, members of the Jason's have told me the same thing. No, we're not investigating these phenomena. Uh, is that insulting to you? How do you take that? Is that proper skepticism? Is that, is that, um, in my experience, um, in my experience, even the people that are very much involved on this stuff would tell you that exact same answer. You know, Jim can explain.
security clearances and national security stuff. I don't know that kind of stuff. I just know through osmosis kind of how it's treated. But when I first met a bunch of people that were involved on this subject before I even knew Jim, I remember specifically, I was in one place and there's a big wig I was talking to and he goes, we don't
ever look at that subject. We don't care about that subject. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any of that is even real, yada, yada, yada. And I was like, okay, thanks. And then I left that person's company, or that person's table and went right outside the door. And there's these other two guys that work directly under him that said,
We want to talk about this." And they talked about it for an hour. And it was like, nothing classified. They can't go there. But it was just like, some people are more open to it, and some people aren't. But the people that are dealing directly with something that's classified, they're never going to even talk about it. As far as the best and the brightest, I guess that's subjective. Because who knows if the Jasons really are or not? I've always heard that they kind of were. But
I think that you have incredible people at the National Academy of Sciences, you have incredible people at the national laboratories, you have incredible people at the Lockheed Martins and the Bowings and they're everywhere. And I think that it's not exclusive that we need this one group of scientists or whatever. Who knows if something's been studied for decades and decades, they're going to choose people that are the best and the brightest that can keep their mouth shut because it probably has these big national security elements that come with it.
And they're going to find people that bring value in ways that they need. It's not just like a blanket, like, you're a great scientist, we're going to bring you in. I mean, I, as far as I know, and what I've learned, you know, black programs don't really work that way. But I'll tell you directly, directly direct experience that
In the very beginning, everyone said that to me. And because they don't need to open up a conversation with me, they don't need to talk about it. They're not going to get anything out of it. If anything, they're just going to get in trouble or make them feel like they need to go back and report a conversation where something slipped or something. So I just don't think that's the right route. But what I will hear that sound
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I talked to the former head of the task force before it's in its current form, however that works. And I asked him, I said, what's the biggest change now that we were able to bring the UFO subject out into the mainstream? And he told me, he said, for the first time ever, we can talk about this in the halls of the Pentagon. Up until this point, you know, it was always in a skiff underground somewhere, you know? I heard similar things from Alexander Dietrich, who's a renowned fighter pilot who was involved along with
with Commander Fravor and the so-called tic-tac incident. And one very valuable thing that this has elucidated is the
breaking down those barriers, the insecurity, the humiliation, the kind of taboo for military pilots who are heroes far beyond what I'm capable of doing. And they volunteered to put their lives on the line. If these are military threats or even weather balloons or whatever, we owe it to our warfighters to make sure that they're safe and secure. So taking away the taboo has been incredibly important for me.
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If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart. Plus, 100 free blades when you head to h-e-n-s-o-n-s-h-a-v-i-n-g dot com slash everything and use the code everything. Kurt, do you have some questions from your audience or from you that you want to pose? Because these gentlemen have a hard cut out in about 40 minutes, 30, 40 minutes.
Yeah, there's this person named Red Panda Koala. Tom, have you seen the documentary on yourself? I have not. No. A wonderful, concise, 60 minute summation of your work in this UFO topic. And he or she asks, what was it that Tom was told that kept him up for three days? Oh, well, I don't talk about that, but there was, I remember, um,
I remember having discussions, the company that I keep with people like Jim, they just, you know, and how, and the way their minds, what's really cool about Jim, by the way, is that I've learned how to parse information a lot better. I'm not going to ever be, you know, him, you know, this guy is master spy, you know, but, but I don't, I don't, I learn a lot, like, like,
Learning how to be a little bit more skeptical of information and being able to put these things together and think differently. But they're all such really big thinkers and they don't just grab onto a piece of data because it exists and says, oh, this matters and this means everything. It's very much like forming patterns and analyzing over time. So I remember like hanging out with all these guys in the beginning and
And one of the bigger things was just about me understanding the stakes of this because you come into this as a, and this kind of answers your question about like what keeps me up at night or what kept me up when I was discussing things was not understanding the stakes.
Not really coming to grips with this being real. Like it's one thing when you when you see a video or you read it in a book, you know, and you're like, oh, whoa, this is all, you know, but you don't know if the video is real. That's why it was so important with the ones we brought out had chain of title all the way back to the DOD. So we knew those were real. It wasn't just like it was on YouTube and leaked. So it's the idea of bringing forth things that you know where they come from.
And you really take it from that point forward and start getting really good data and evidence on people's encounters and the stakes that come with that. And when I've talked about this as a threat, you know, that's just my words, right? I mean, I would never know the way the government does.
treats that. That's not my zone, obviously. But for me, in my own personal research, if something's been here for a long period of time, and it really is showing up in people's bedrooms or in front of an F-18 or on a petroglyph wall or in an ancient text down in the archives of the Vatican or whatever it might be, it's obviously doing something. And it's obviously having an influence. And it might only be an influence on where we end up as mankind. Or it might be an influence to keep us suppressed,
in a weird way to where they can take advantage of something, who knows? But it's here for a reason, and it's not really being forward about its intent. But we do know that we've been dealing with it for a long period of time. And so when you start coming to the way they think and the stakes involved and the reality of it, and I start hearing about these encounters from the people that were there,
I remember in regards to the question you asked, I was out in Colorado Springs and I had a meeting with a couple of generals. And we were just shooting the shit about all this stuff on and something was discussed that, you know, it wasn't some big classified thing it was more like.
things that people are having happen to them or witnessing. And it's an issue. And I remember waking up in the middle of night, just go, I was like, you start to look around you not really trust your environment. You know, it's like, Whoa, like, really? Like, this is real. Like, my mom is a is really religious. Like, she's like, a born again Christian and in hardcore fanatic, you know, religious woman and
And I grew up in a household my dad wasn't so that's part of like the big butting of the heads and it was a broken home but I remember thinking at that time frame when I was talking about some of these things that I saw I discuss where I was where I couldn't sleep very well was I was like if my mom really believed that Jesus
is real and would show up in her room and float towards her with a crown of thorn. I mean, she would freak, she would have a heart attack. That would scare her even though she bases her whole life on it, like who she hangs out with, where she goes on weekends and weeknights, who she might date or marry again. Every call she calls me, she's praying. So she believes this viscerally. But if she saw something like that,
It's a different deal once it's like really real. It's not just reading in a book and believing in it. And that's kind of what I came to with the whole UFO thing. It wasn't just like believing it. It was like, oh my God, this is real. This is like real, not just that we're talking about it and we saw it on the news or we saw it on YouTube. It's like when you're alone in your bedroom in the middle of the night, you got to look around and go, who knows what can happen? And that's kind of where I've landed over the past few years is just like going anything as possible.
Does your mom think that what you're doing is an act of evil or you're studying evil that you shouldn't know what you're doing? She loves me too much and is too supportive to have that thought. So in her head, it's like this. It's probably a crisis of conscience, you know, where it's like, these don't all map up, you know, but this is what I tell people. And I really believe this. I'm not speaking for Jim or the company. This is my own personal thing.
I have a feeling that when we really learn about consciousness and we really learn kind of what these things are, this phenomena is, I think we're going to, like I said earlier, we're going to merge this metaphysical consciousness type of science with normal science. And once it becomes all one, we might look at religions differently, but I think everyone's going to be able to keep the things they love, which is really not all the dogma and the stories that we argue about, but when it comes down to
you know, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or Godhead, your soul and the physical body. It's all the same three things. That Trinity thing is like kind of everywhere. It's all about you as a person with your connection to consciousness, you know, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit kind of thing. So I think what will happen is everyone's so scared that religions will crumble. And I'm kind of like, no, it's going to be the great equalizer that the only three things that matter in all of these things is
us as a physical person with our connection to something bigger and so I don't think people are going to be alienated. I don't think they might
you know, be bummed that the story of the locusts coming out didn't apply, you know, or something. But I think that the things that matter stay, which is, you know, I used to go to my mom and say, like, you know, I'll go, why are you a Christian? Like, what, like, what is it show? I know it, I've seen things, I felt things, I just know in my heart. But then, you know, and she goes, and we've healed the blind, we prayed, and they can heal the blind, that's happened. I'm all, well, that's happened in Islam, too.
It has. So why is it happening in other religions and here? And my whole point was, it's not about the stories. It's physics. And people like yourself are going to help us all understand that here in the future. So Jim and Tom, a question from Sarah Skolls, who's a friend of mine who wrote a book. They are already here in part about Tom. She's a wonderful soul. She asks about, where do things go from now and here maybe?
Now that Luis Elizondo and Chris Mellon aren't part of TTSA, how does that affect your mission, guys? How should that be interpreted? If you were not being charitable, you might say, oh, that's a sign they have internal strife. But is there some other explanation? Or where do you see things going now that these two very prominent
supporters of the narrative that you guys are also supporting have departed from TTSA, at least. I understand from Jim that you guys are on good terms, but where do you go from here?
Well, I mean, a lot, there's so much going on. Number one, the pandemic hit, we're a startup, so we're not giant. We have more people from the government that want to be a part of what we're doing than we have space for. So that's not the issue. With those people in particular, when the pandemic hit, it really caused us as a young company to choose one lane rather than trying to do multiple lanes.
And during the pandemic, the Defense Authorization Act, they couldn't get it passed. They couldn't fund any more research projects with new companies, new programs. And we were a new company with a new program. So we were kind of stuck in this like,
It created an opportunity to focus the company
and get everything really streamlined to grow quickly without trying to dilute ourselves in places where we can't compete with a Lockheed Martin or whatever. But we really wanted to get these things off the ground, some of these early programs, some of which how is still chasing some of which like we still have an open contract with the government on some of the material that we got. But Chris Mellon without I don't want to speak for him, but I do know Chris
is involved in a lot of things back in DC, specifically with trying to get this thing pressed through Congress and with oversight and the task force. And he's so deep in it that I think it frees up a lot of time and gets him kind of away from the entertainment part, which you don't really, it doesn't mix well with the government stuff. And Jim, it'd be better for you to talk about some of this stuff. But that was what we kind of found was some of those issues, I guess,
Yeah, that's pretty much it. And I think Chris needed to go his own way as with Lou. They wanted to pursue other things that weren't, quote unquote, entertainment focused. I get that completely. And they are doing, I think it's just an outstanding job. Both of them, I'm just a huge fan. We're all huge fans of them.
In terms of the partnership between TTSA and the government, there was
I didn't actually see this, but according to my friend Mick West, he says JJ Abrams UFO documentary episode three suggests TTSA might be part of a government disinformation program. That's what I signed up for. I was like, how do I lie to my friends and my family? Can I just comment on that? First of all, you know, that's, that's rather insulting. It's insulting, you know, not only to me and, you know, and all the people that work for the government, what have you.
You can't have a disinformation program in the government. It's illegal. You can't do that. I wouldn't do that personally. I mean, that's terrible. And you cannot influence the population of the United States. Governments can't do that. It's called an operation, and you can't have that. We don't do that. And as a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons I don't like going on shows
Because when people come up with these questions, you know, you sort of sit there and you look at them and say, well, if you really knew how the government worked, you know, when I was in CIA, I mean, you know, when I was in the senior service, and at one point I was running rather large programs, I had lawyers all around me. I mean, you couldn't make a decision without making sure that you were right on the money. And we, CIA in particular, it's a great organization. I mean, they've made a lot of mistakes in the past, but by and large, it's a very, very straight laced organization. You do not do anything.
that would in any way harm a U.S. citizen or the population in general. So that's bogus. Yeah, no, okay. And I appreciate that so much. And believe me, you know, no one has more respect that didn't serve at least than me. I mean, my father served in the U.S. But I do want to say, you know, I mean, one thing just to criticize the government that I do love and support, and it's the best country on earth, I'll say that, except maybe Canada, Kurt's going to speak up about the
The 50 first state to the north up there. But anyway, in all seriousness, you know, I look at COVID-19 and I look at, you know, the trillions of dollars that go from our 16% of our entire budget goes to the military, CIA, FBI, all these NSA. I remember going to dinner in 2020, in January 2020, my friend had told me
You just got an invitation to go to China. Are you going to go, Brian? I said, I don't know. And he said, you shouldn't go because China is building this hospital slash prison. They're going to start locking people in because this thing called COVID. I said, OK, well, I'll keep my eye on it. I'm not going to go to not in a rush to go to Tibet anyway. I'd love to go someday. But but they knew about it. My friend at dinner knew about it. In other words, Jim and trillions of dollars of and the countless lives that were lost
precious individual lives lost in America because, you know, and you think with this huge apparatus, uh, that they'd be capable of doing something, preventing something. And I don't want to get into politics. I, I hate politics and that's why I'm an astronomer because there's no democratic comet. There's no Republican asteroid. Right. So talk about the government. Like could they do, could they cover up something like this? Could they do it malevolently as you're saying the CIA is basically, let's just call it what it is. You're saying they're, they're comprised of good people, good men and women, honest Patriots.
How come they weren't on top of something like COVID, which was, you know, known to my dinner party guests? Well, you know, let me just say this. The last 10 years, I consulted with the intelligence community and I was working on counter biological weapons. And one of the corollaries to that was, you know, working on pandemics and talking about pandemics. I can't tell you how many meetings I sat in with the government from people that did nothing.
But talk about the coming pandemic. CIA has written intelligence assessments on it. So has DIA. I mean, almost every government agency has come out and warned people that this is going to be happening down the road. And it's just a question of when. But the problem with this is nobody listens. The government does not listen. Congress doesn't listen. And the Senate doesn't listen until it happens. And when it happens, they jump up in the air, start pointing fingers.
It's a shame. It really truly is. 9-11 was the same way. We were screaming, you know, bloody murder about, you know, about Osama bin Laden. This is what's going to happen. And we think this is going to happen soon. And people just look at it and, you know, say, well, I don't really believe it could happen. But no, in many, I mean, there are a lot of times where the intelligence community fails. But a lot of these, no, we were not, we were right on top of all this early on. But nobody wanted to spend money, billions of dollars creating
say a, you know, a vaccine that could, you know, help, you know, something when there wasn't one, when there wasn't a pathogen out there yet. So, and, you know, the government budgets, I mean, we can have a whole program on government budgets and how money is spent. And it's usually spent on quarterly things, the things that you absolutely have to do. So anything that's looked in the future, like UAPs, by the way, you know, low probability, high impact events like that, they don't get the kind of
You want to ask some of your viewers questions? Yeah, well about the government not participating in disinformation, I'm curious. There's MKUltra, Project Mockingbird or Operation Mockingbird and Project Blue Book and quite a few others. So what do you make of that? And also even if it is illegal, it's not as if the government hasn't done what's illegal before. Oh, no, no, the government has
Oh, absolutely. I'm not making excuses for the government. I mean, the government has done some terrible things. It wasn't until 1976, for instance, when the CIA was held held accountable is really when all that stopped. When MKUltra came out and and and I can't remember the name of the commission, but it was Gerald Ford was running it and it actually gave presentations on it. I don't know why it's slipping my mind right now. But but essentially,
Ramparts magazine had a big article on this and the intelligence community just changed right there. I mean MKUltra was a program, you know, they were experimenting with hallucinogenics because they thought they could control people's minds because they knew that the Russians were experimenting with it. So they were doing it. It was a terrible, terrible program. And it was an awful program. People died
But you know, and then they burned all the files, so we don't know what the hell happened. And this has gone on throughout the government in the very beginnings, but as the government gets older, and as we learn from these mistakes, things really do get better. So yeah, I mean, when you look at like the Condon report, that was a total whitewash.
And they basically came out and said, you know, we're just going to, we're just going to make fun of people who believe in UAPs and UFOs and all this kind of stuff. And that was all, they shouldn't have done that. And it was actually one of the reasons why a lot of us in this, these unofficial government workers decided we're going to go out, we're going to take this private. We told the highest levels of government, that's what we're going to be doing.
I have a quick question.
Are you aware of any government whether it's our own having possession of an alien body? Are you asking me any? Jim or Tom? I'm not gonna comment on Yeah, I'm not, you know, I think there's no way for us to be aware. I mean, we all hear the stories, we all talk about it online or read about it online. Um, you know, we're that's one of the reasons why we're trying to figure out about the material that we got. So
We have material from a purported crash in the late 40s. We don't really have a chain of title all the way back then. We do for like 20 years or something. We know there's a lot of anomalies about the way it's engineered. We have some theories of what it can do. There's been a lot of studies on it. The government's very interested in this piece. But if that piece ended up being real, then it's like, well, what else was it a part of? And who was piloting this thing? Was it a drone? Was it not? I think it kind of gets us to ask a lot of questions.
I have, you know, I'm under the thinking that, you know, if there's things that have been around here for thousands of years, then there's absolutely the potential for some of these stories to be real. The problem is, is like, you're not going to get anybody to come out and just say that so easily. I think that there's steps to this. You know, I look at the task force report and I look at what's going on now. And, and if I, if there was such a thing like bodies or craft or whatever, um,
And they're so advanced and they're somehow influencing
the you know mankind and the way we are engineered to evolve or something crazy i mean because i look at us now it's like first we we got into the biology of our bodies and then we got deeper and we got into like you know um dna and what that's doing and every time we master parts of the body and parts of you know the world we see and touch and feel like what's the next thing well i think the next thing is going to be discovering consciousness and then we're going to go how do we manipulate consciousness and how do we capture it and how do we are you know so i'm kind of thinking of this these
beings have been around for so long, they must be so far beyond wondering about our DNA or wondering about what our spleen does. I think it's going to be probably unnerving, probably complicated, probably a lot that we don't know. And so the idea of the government just coming out and saying, hey, look what we got before they know what it is, doesn't make any sense to me. And I tell my friends this, I go, if someone like Jim
caught some dude sneaking a nuclear weapon, you know, through the border of Canada somewhere into the States, you know, are they going to stop and tell us all about it and really just talk about it? Or are they going to go and try and track down the guy who he was working with, where he got the parts, where the device is, you know, it goes on and it might take some time. Now imagine if that device was like handing an iPhone to a cow and the cow was like, I got to figure out what this iPhone is.
So I think that the logical steps that one would take are exactly kind of what's happening, which was a number of years trying to figure out something, trying to come up with a plan that helped understand it or whatever.
And then it's like, okay, now let's create a proper organization to start getting more data and letting people know that the data is real and that we need to study this. And then over time, being able to say, this is what we learned, you know, it's real and now we're studying it and this is how they fly. And it looks like they might be doing this and that, you know, and so I think we're doing the logical steps now that might one day lead to we've collected some stuff, you know, but I don't think that if they, even if they did,
I wouldn't knowing what I know about this subject, which isn't like a lot. I feel like it's a lot but but who knows, because they say like studying space is like if we were to study the oceans, it's like we know a half a cup of water of the oceans. That's how much we know about it. Yeah, so I just, I think this is I think you're seeing
a rational, logical progression of something extremely complicated starting to be formed to come out after a long period of time of digging in and trying to wrap their heads around it. That's what it looks like to me. And a big taboo. And you in particular, Tom, you know, doing yeoman's work to make this less taboo, to make it into the public consciousness. And yet I'm curious how you react to my colleagues, professors, astronomers who spend our days
I heard Commander Fravor saying on Lex Friedman's podcast, we are trained pilots. We are trained to use our senses, our eyes and our tools and our technology. Well, so are astronomers. We're pretty good at looking up and things in space.
We survey the sky with high cadence, with quite great frequency. Some right here in Southern California, as you know, look out your window and see Mount Palomar. But I want to ask you, how do you react to those that say, well, astronomers would like nothing better than for these craft to be real, again, so that we could bypass the line and skip from the equivalent of Euclid 2000 years ago to Einstein. That would be a tremendous boost towards humanity. And no one would have a negative state in that in the astronomical community. You might say,
government does and that they want to keep us comfortable and happy and not in revolution, but big astronomy doesn't exist. So how do you react to that? That astronomers would like nothing more for these to be real. We don't have credible reports in any sensor and any wavelength, any frequency, any polarization time of day, year that where it's really credibly come out and been verified, peer reviewed, however you like to say it. How do you react to those kinds of assertions?
Well, two things for me, and I think Jim will have some really great insight on this as usual. But the two things for me are, number one, there has been that stuff. It has been picked up. That was one of Chris Mellon's big pushes, is that all of these satellites that are doing thermal imaging, watching animal migrations, weather satellites, spy satellites, they collect data all day long. And he's like, we need to scan that data and we need to find out if this weather satellite picked up
There's a little Roman right there. You need to send this weather satellite picked up something flying through, but these satellites aren't really geared to pick up things moving 20,000 miles an hour and doing a 90 degree turn, but it still might be in there, but we have to do some software to kind of pull it out. But then we have the videos that come out. There's so many more videos that we know that are probably classified, not so much because of what's on it, but maybe where they filmed it or how good the resolution is or whatever those things are.
But those things do exist. We have filmed these things, the military has them, the government has them on the best systems that have ever been created in the history of man. On the spy one radar, the USS Princeton and these top gun pilots and top gun radar controllers capturing this stuff with their eyeballs, with the sensors, with the people in the planes, all that stuff is there. The second thing is, is I don't personally, and I don't know this, but I don't think these are coming from space. I don't think they're coming from deep space. So if we're looking
at the oceans, but we're wondering where we're going to find a planet. You know, you're not going to find one there. You know, so I think it's better that we're monitoring
the area around our planet and what things are materializing in this realm. So I think astronomers are looking far out and I'm not saying that there isn't other life out there and they're not sending drones out or maybe they've got advanced enough to travel. I'm not saying that. I just have this feeling that the universe
Is more of a duality structure where time can extend in two directions in the exact same moment in the exact same place, which means people that are very advanced or things that are very advanced can just pop over like a radio station and.
That's why we're not seeing them because we're looking out at Mars or we're looking out at like Alpha Centauri and we're like, where's it coming from? It's like, no, it's in Utah. It's just in the future or something. And so I think we're going to learn and think around those lines. And I think astronomers are totally capable. I mean, these are some of the smartest people in the world. I think maybe it's like adding
to like their perv, it's like adding to what they look for and look at and where they look would be kind of cool, you know, getting you guys to look at, you know, frequency and duality theory and time existing at one moment in the same location. And, you know, so it's not just looking at stars, it's kind of react to the new project Galileo, Professor Gavi Loeb, who was the chairman of the Harvard astronomy
I'll tell you.
It's so all the conversations I've had with people that really do know a lot about this stuff on
You know, they can only talk about so much. So even I was on the wrong path 50 different times for like years, I really thought I understood something. And then all of a sudden, someone else says one more thing and it changes everything I thought I knew. And I was like, Oh my God, I got it so wrong. And then, you know, it's, it's difficult to comprehend, especially for a guy like me. I'm not like you. I don't, I didn't go to college. I didn't study science. I don't have that ability, but I'm a pretty clever guy and I could find patterns pretty easily.
And I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly open to learning. But I just think that these scientists... I'll give you an example. I won't go into too much detail because I don't feel comfortable doing it. But there was a very important person that I met early on, long before I knew Jim.
And I remember that somebody that was a very high ranking person at a very important government place said, you should meet this person. He's a very interesting person, very high ranking person. And I said, because I pitched this idea of what to the stars could be. And so this person comes to San Diego, they put me on the phone with this other person.
And I said, Hey, this is Tom, and he's got some great ideas about how to talk to the youth about, you know, life in the universe and so on. This person on the phone was like, well, there's no evidence for that. I don't believe in any of that. It's just not my thing. But why don't you fly up tomorrow? Come meet me, you know, and I was like to talk about what something that doesn't exist. So I remember this person was putting together that you talked about a Rogan was no, no, this is some no, this is something different.
But it led to that. And so this person was just like, it was a two hour conversation. None of it's real, none of it exists. But I want to hear what your plan is, or what you're trying to achieve, you know. And I remember this person was setting up a venture to look for life in the universe somewhere with some really cool technology and a lot of money. I don't want to say too much.
And I was like, you know, sir, you're, you're looking for life out there, you are raising all this money and you're doing this great thing for humanity. And I believe it's out there. I'm all but I, I want to talk about the ones that are here.
I think young people need to know about the ones that are here. And I remember banging on the table, you know, because I knew that the meeting was kind of bearing off for two hours, like, you know, it was going to get shut down, I was going to get anywhere. So I got really full of passion. And I was like, you want to look out there? Great. I need your help, because I want to discuss what's here, the ones here, you know, and then he took a deep breath.
And then he just looked at me and then he and then he said he goes, let's introduce him to so and so. And then the other guy next and turns his head and he goes, Are you sure he goes yeah I'm sure. And that's how it led to that other meeting and the next thing you know you got these people gathering around that want to talk about what's here but they're very limited on what they can say so I have to like.
Kind of put things together and then fortunately I meet Jim and Jim teaches me a lot about how to absorb information and how to digest it and how to hold on to it even if it doesn't because it doesn't have enough about it that means anything yet, but it might be important later.
I'm not him, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can from him. And so the whole thing is just wild. Like it's very real and there's a difference between what's out there and what's here. And it might be, there might be a lot more than that too. The universe is big, you know, there could be infinite possibility out there. Yeah. Yeah. I just add a quick thing about science and scientists in general regarding this UAP phenomenon.
I feel so sorry for them in many respects. I am a huge fan of the Galileo project. I just think it's wonderful. And I think what he's going to be doing and what you guys are all going to be doing with that is really necessary. I just applaud how courageous you guys are going out and doing that. And Dr. Loeb is doing that. I will say I haven't met very many scientists that are doing something like this, or whether they're skeptics or what have you, that have a really
sound understanding of the literature and the research that has been done over the last 70 years on this topic. I think if they did, they'd have a better appreciation for what they're going against or what they're trying to figure out. Personally, based on my knowledge and based on what I know, I don't think we're ever going to come to, at least not in my lifetime, I'm an older guy now, but
In my lifetime, we're ever going to come to any kind of conclusion about what this phenomenon actually is. I think it encompasses a lot more than UAPs. I think there's a huge trickster element to it.
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I could go on, but I'll just say that I appreciate the fact that science is doing this. I think eventually science is going to have to figure out another way to approach this.
Because as Tom keeps mentioning consciousness and what have you, I spoke to a scientist once and who was very involved in this and I asked him, I said, where do you think's behind all this, this phenomenon? And he said, it's somewhere in between consciousness and a nexus of consciousness and quantum theory, quantum mechanics. But when you're talking about quantum mechanics and when I ask you about superpositioning or ask you about quantum entanglement or the particle wave theory and what have you,
You can't explain it. Scientists can't really explain it, but it's in a box. It's in the quantum theory box, and it's a place they can put it, and there's something there. But when you talk about UAPs, there is no ontology. There's no lexicon that you can actually use to even begin the discussion. We can't even figure out what questions to ask about this, because we don't know what it is. There's no there there, as I said before.
And that's what makes this extremely difficult. And I think that's why scientists, many scientists are extremely frustrated over this. The evidence, there is some hard evidence that I feel this hard evidence science, some scientists don't believe that's true. But a lot of the, a lot of what we have is anecdotal and they might call soft evidence, but nevertheless, it's there. As I said before, these tic tacs that were flying over the Nimitz, they're real.
they were absolutely 100% real. And please don't tell me there was sensor anomalies. I know they weren't sensor anomalies. They were absolutely real. So what do you do with that? And so if you're a scientist, you say, well, show me, you know, I got to see them again. I got to take, this is what I love about the Galileo project. I want to take a good picture. That is the perfect thing to say, because that's exactly what we need. We need a good picture first.
And there are some out there, by the way, but I don't know if we'll ever see. Are they classified? The great pictures. I think Lou's even mentioned this a couple of times that some of the evidence that we do have is rather compelling. But there is a problem with releasing them regarding some of the sensor systems that we have and you can't give away, you know, what we're able to do.
I have a quick question about consciousness. At the same time, there's also Steve Greer who said that there's a project called CE5 or at least a technique of CE5 of connecting yourself with an alien via some meditative technique or perhaps even psychedelic, some trance state, some abnormal consciousness state, altered state. What do you make of this?
Well, let me say one thing about Stephen Greer. I've never met the man. I do take my hat off to him. He's done some incredible work early on. He's not a big fan of our organization at all, and I'm not quite sure why, but he isn't. But as far as what he's doing with CE5 and what have you, I don't have any comment on that. I don't go that far. I mean, it's
Yeah, my feeling is that, you know, again, if you look at just what we've done as human beings over the past hundred years, where it's like we first, you know, we invent the telephone and then radio waves and communicating over different frequencies. And then we're able to tap phones and we're able to tap, you know, hack into radio, whatever, like you just look at the progression that we're doing.
I would bet money that down the line when we're technologically advanced, we're going to not be hacking radio waves, we're going to be hacking minds, we're going to be listening in to what people are thinking. And what is the loudest that someone can be when they're thinking? I would imagine it's a group of people that are
that are meditating together, they're all thinking the same thing at the same moment, you know, so it's almost like if you're searching around for a light in the dark, that's a brighter light. So part of me really does subscribe to, you know, consciousness and meditation and the focusing of one's mind is being something that
that something advanced could easily get into. I mean, when you look at the evidence or you look at the data of the people involved, it's, you know, and you can be paralyzed or you hear voices in your head or, you know, there's, it's always something to do with, you know, kind of hacking the system to a degree. So I think that that's all plays a big part of it. And, and I definitely believe it, you know, I just think that it needs to be studied scientifically.
Yeah, I agree. I don't discount what Stephen Greer is saying. It could possibly be true. I just don't know enough about it. But I applaud that he's actually working on it.
Now, when you we do have some questions in the audience, you want to know how they can be involved. What can they do? Obviously, Project Galileo is privately funded. It's at Harvard. What about your endeavors, guys? What would you like to turn to people to attention to get involved if they're interested in joining this mission?
Well, we created a public company, a public benefit company, a company. So our goal was like, if we're going to do this, we can't do this. We're just a few people own it. You know, so we have about four, yeah, somewhere between 3,500, 4,000 investors.
where we let people come and be a part of this and help grow the company so we can do exactly this. We can tell the stories, we can do the research, we can help push the government, we can kind of become a credible place to discuss this stuff. So that's one avenue. Support TTSA, you know, be an owner of it with us and help us get the job done. Look what we've done so far on very little. The second thing is I say this, this is just me talking, this isn't a to the stars position or anything. Don't let the government
sit quietly and just go off and they say one thing and then we just trust it, it's fine. These are human beings that work there, that get distracted, that get overburdened with other jobs they got to do, that really there's not much in it for these guys, you know, that are working some of these difficult issues to come out and just start talking about it and have everyone start calling their office and like bugging them and now they can't get their job done and now they got to go brief a bunch of senators that just want to be on TV and get more votes.
But I think that people need to not
Let them live this down. You know, you got to bring this up when they're interviewing the president. You got to bring this up when they're when the congressmen are having debates, the senators are having debates to be reelected. You got to bring this up in the press environment. You know, when the when the PR person is talking for the DOD or talking for the CIA or talking for any place that might have stakes in this. But when we're quiet and complacent and just read a report that it's all real, but we don't really like follow up blows my mind.
I mean, it blows my mind that people are not beating down the door right now going, wait, what? This is real? How much do you really know that you're not telling us? Well, in my own personal opinion, I think they know a hell of a lot more than we know. And I think they have a hell of a good reason probably for not talking about all of it. I because in my experience,
With all these government guys, they're all really good people and they're smart and they're ethical. They're humans and make mistakes and new laws get created for more oversight and so on. So we don't have a repeat of the MK Ultra stuff or whatever. But I've met a lot of these people and a lot of them are just bound by the by the ethics or the rules of how it works. It's like they create a black program.
But there's no part of a classified program that I know of that's ever been spoken of me where it's kind of like, okay, now comes the part where we tell everybody about it. It just doesn't exist. So then how do you tell everybody about it? I mean, Jim can talk about it better than I can. But the only way is pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure. And then finally, they have to act for the will of the people. And so that's what you need to do. Don't let it go quietly.
No, no, I couldn't agree with Tom anymore. I mean, he's absolutely right in what he just said. And, you know, this is one of the reasons we we formed TTSA. I remember I remember talking with Lou when he was on the task force and being in the Pentagon and talking to some of the officers there. They were very concerned about this phenomenon. They, you know, they knew it was real. They just didn't know what to do about it. And I kept telling them, you know, look, you know, you got to go you got to go public with this. And if you can't go public,
You know, I just formed a company with Tom DeLong and I said, we're going to take this private, we're going to go to the private sector because the government does not own this data. The government doesn't own UAPs or the study of UAPs or the research. It belongs to everybody. It doesn't just appear to carrier strike groups. It appears everywhere to all people around the world. It's appearing in Argentina and China, you know, and Bangladesh. So
We really, as human beings, have to get together and that's when we said we're taking this private and we won't discuss classified information, but we are going private. The public has to be more informed about this and let them know that their consensus reality, the reality we all agree on, isn't quite right. There's something else going on and we really truly have to figure that out because that's what we do as human beings.
Oh, guys, thank you. I let it go with that. And I really do have to leave and I really enjoying this very, very much. Yeah, I'm enjoying it as well. Yeah, let's do a part two, Jim. Let's do it again. I'd be more than happy to do it again with you guys. Yeah, it would be fun and doing doing doing another one. But digging into not so much, you know, is it real and what the government's doing or not, but really just like dig into
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah, the physics implicate young people interested in thinking big. Look, sometimes it borders on sci-fi. Sometimes it has a stigma. But nevertheless, if we can inspire just one mind, as they say, to take physics seriously, to learn, and with the artist eye of Tom, with the patriotic eye of Jim, with the inquisitive nature of Kurt, and maybe with the scientist perspective that I'm trying to bring, I think we're doing a good service. So I'd love to do that again, guys.
Tom, thank you so much for your dinner. I love your work. Thank you, big fan. Maybe Kurt, next time you'll take out your guitar and you'll teach him chords or something, man. That'll be good. I only know three chords. I'm in a punk band. I mean, we don't know any more than three. So that's what we do. Oh, we love you, man. And Kurt, thank you so much, brother. And Jim, it's honor and a pleasure. Thank you for your service to the country. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Bye guys. Bye guys. Bye, Kurt. Bye bye.
The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash C-U-R-T-J-A-I-M-U-N-G-A-L. That is Kurt Jaimungal. It's support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you.
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"text": " This is Martian Beast Mode Lynch. Prize pick is making sports season even more fun. On prize picks, whether you're a football fan, a basketball fan, you'll always feel good to be ranked. Right now, new users get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5. The app is simple to use. Pick two or more players. Pick more or less on their stat projections. Anything from touchdown to threes. And if you're right, you can win big. Mix and match players from"
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"text": " That silence is missed sales. Now, why? It's because you haven't met Shopify, at least until now."
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"text": " Now that's success. As sweet as a solved equation. Join me in trading that silence for success with Shopify. It's like some unify field theory of business. Whether you're a bedroom inventor or a global game changer, Shopify smooths your path. From a garage-based hobby to a bustling e-store, Shopify navigates all sales channels for you. With Shopify powering 10% of all US e-commerce and fueling your ventures in over"
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"text": " This is a repost of the interview with Tom DeLong and Jim Semivan from Professor Brian Keating's podcast Into the Impossible, which took place on August 12th, 2021. Tom DeLong is the co-founder of the rock band Blink-182, as well as the more pertinent To the Stars Academy, which investigates UFOs. Jim Semivan is also a founding member of the To the Stars Academy, as well as being a former employee of the CIA for 25 years."
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"text": " when I live stream, it shows me a previous stream. And so I asked the audience, can you please, and I asked them to say a unique word, like let's say Pokemon or Bulbasaur, because then I know, okay, you're seeing this one. So there's 204 people waiting. That's cool. 210. Wow. That's nice. That's big for me. It's small for Kurt. Now, are you, is there anything off limits, uh, Jim, like Luel Elizondo, is that okay to talk about or? Oh no, Lou's a great guy. We, we,"
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"text": " Lou, Chris, we're all buddies and we talk a lot. Haven't talked to Lou though in about a month. Chris, Mellon and I probably every few days we're exchanging emails. The only thing I can't get into is any detailed questions on CIA, what CIA is doing. Sure. Half my questions, man. That's why I haven't been on a lot of these shows. I mean, I don't"
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"index": 14,
"start_time": 322.756,
"text": " Jim, you also mentioned that both Brian and myself come recommended by who? Just friends of mine in the community. I mean, you know, I'm not talking to any senior government officials saying listen, listen to these guys, but"
},
{
"end_time": 382.244,
"index": 15,
"start_time": 352.637,
"text": " No, just friends in the community. If you're going to get on something, you want to do something with credibility and good reputation, this is where you want to go. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's a huge, huge compliment. Well, I think it's true. And Brian, I heard of you too a long time ago. I actually did a recruiting session out at University of California, San Diego back in, I think 2000 and gosh, one or two,"
},
{
"end_time": 407.722,
"index": 16,
"start_time": 382.875,
"text": " I was using a fake name and I was recruiting for the clandestine service. What a great group of students you had though. Yeah, we have some great students and good patriots there. That's really great. I'm glad to hear that. Next time you're in town, let me know. Or next time I come out to the loophole state of Delaware, I'd love to meet you."
},
{
"end_time": 438.012,
"index": 17,
"start_time": 408.558,
"text": " We'll be ready to go. So what we're going to do is we're going to introduce ourselves. We're going to talk a little philosophy. So I'll start first. Kurt will go next. Jim will go next. And then you'll go and like kind of what your mission is in life and kind of description, how you got involved in this. I'll say some words of platitudes in the beginning. And, you know, our goal is to be, discuss things, not debate. I think debate is pointless. People get all mired in, in accusations and whatnot. So I just want to have it be high level discussion for the benefit of humanity. Okay."
},
{
"end_time": 468.439,
"index": 18,
"start_time": 439.787,
"text": " All right, man. So we're going to go live if I can get this all set up. Preparing this meeting as being live stream. Got it. Yep. Hopefully this will work and we'll shoot out to the internet. Kirk, can you check the live stream is working on urine? It'll take approximately 15 seconds. Welcome everybody to a very special conversation between three of my friends, some more"
},
{
"end_time": 482.449,
"index": 19,
"start_time": 468.968,
"text": " But discussion is very valuable."
},
{
"end_time": 504.206,
"index": 20,
"start_time": 482.671,
"text": " together members of different communities communities from academia represented by me from the military represented by Jim or the government from by Jim and from lay people who have really been responsible for getting this excitement this attention that this subject needs out to the public and of course that's speaking of Tom DeLong who's joining us from to the stars Academy."
},
{
"end_time": 529.855,
"index": 21,
"start_time": 505.179,
"text": " Jim is joining us from the East Coast, Jim Sevivan, and my friend Kurt Jaimungal, who runs a wonderful channel, which you should all subscribe to, called Theories of Everything. I've been a guest, many other guests had on people from Lou Elizondo to many others in this community. I'm more of a neophyte novice and I'm more interested in doing what Galileo said. So my hero, as everybody knows who subscribes to my channel is Galileo Galilei. Here's a finger puppet."
},
{
"end_time": 542.756,
"index": 22,
"start_time": 530.265,
"text": " We're going to get one of Tom and Jim at some point. Galileo said, let us measure what is measurable and make measurable what is not. And I'm pleased to say I have become a member of the Galileo project at Harvard University."
},
{
"end_time": 572.346,
"index": 23,
"start_time": 543.234,
"text": " which just started just about a couple of weeks ago. I'm on their scientific advisory board. And I joined that not because I have so much free time as the chancellor's professor of physics at UC San Diego and the co-director of the Arthur C. Clark Center for Human Imagination, but because I think this is a very, very important subject, not the least of which, because I hope to learn some of the physics of the advanced future. If indeed we are being visited by an advanced extraterrestrial civilization, or perhaps as Tom calls them threats in either case,"
},
{
"end_time": 599.309,
"index": 24,
"start_time": 572.773,
"text": " I think it's fascinating. So I'd love to introduce today my guests and first to confirm that my friend Kurt is out there and he can hear us. Kurt, can you please introduce yourself and your channel? Sure. My name is Kurt. I'm uncle. I'm a filmmaker with a background in math and physics. I'm particularly interested in the theoretical ends of physics, something called theories of everything. The channel that I host podcasts on is called theories of everything."
},
{
"end_time": 628.712,
"index": 25,
"start_time": 600.725,
"text": " Essentially, what are the fundamental laws of the universe? Investigating that as well as the possible connection those laws have to consciousness and free will and even God. My interest in UFOs is because there seems to be an intimate tie between UFOs and consciousness. There's almost a direct tie between physics and UFOs because they defy our known laws and I'm interested in it. I happen to think that innovation will come from the fringes rather than the center or at least be informed by the fringes."
},
{
"end_time": 658.831,
"index": 26,
"start_time": 629.531,
"text": " Yeah, thank you, Kurt. And I want to remind people who want to leave questions, please put it in the live chat. We are live. It is Thursday, 2.38 PM on the Pacific time zone. Next up is Jim Semven, who has a very, very impressive biography. But I thought maybe he could introduce himself and talk about maybe how he came to come to know Tom. Oh, well, thank you very much. And thank you very much for having me on your program. I've heard about you, and I'm really happy to be here."
},
{
"end_time": 679.531,
"index": 27,
"start_time": 659.394,
"text": " I met Tom five years ago. There was a group of intelligence community, defense department people that studied this topic for a long time, very informally and unofficially."
},
{
"end_time": 707.619,
"index": 28,
"start_time": 680.367,
"text": " And we had got together, I got a phone call from one of them one day and he said, do you know this fella named Tom DeLong? And I said, no, he said blink 182. I said, no, it doesn't ring any bells. He said, well, he wrote a book called secret machines chasing shadows. And there's a lot of information in that book that that is well running true to form. And we don't know whether or not some of the information on"
},
{
"end_time": 735.759,
"index": 29,
"start_time": 708.387,
"text": " some of the programs that the US government had was being leaked or not. And we knew that Tom, well, at least I was told that Tom had a lot of senior government officials that he was in touch with his his advisors. So I, we took it upon ourselves to go talk to Mr. DeLong. And, and I was the one basically asked, Well, why don't you figure it out? You know, you're you're the you're the operations officer, you know, you did this for a living"
},
{
"end_time": 762.637,
"index": 30,
"start_time": 736.271,
"text": " So I flew out to San Diego and had a very, very nice chat with Tom. And it became apparent right away that Tom, not only being a very nice guy, but extremely bright guy, but he had put together all this data that he had been hearing and listening to. And actually two and two came out to four. I was rather surprised. Clearly there was no leak of classified information as far as I was concerned, but Tom sort of hit the nail on the head."
},
{
"end_time": 788.285,
"index": 31,
"start_time": 763.49,
"text": " So then we had, I think, breakfast the next day with some other people. Dr. Putoff, and I won't name the other people that were there. They may not want their names known, but luminaries in the field. And that's when we started. Tom asked me if we could maybe work with him on To The Stars, and we agreed to do that. And I think, Tom, we sketched out what"
},
{
"end_time": 805.64,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 788.643,
"text": " Great. That's great to hear. And actually, Jim, I'm sorry, Tom, this will probably hurt your ego a lot."
},
{
"end_time": 828.49,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 806.015,
"text": " But my audience and Kurt's audience are really like, they're impressed that you're on Tom, but they're like, we really want to hear from Jim. All of us are the same way. That's the first time in my life anybody wanted to hear from me, but all right. So Tom, you have many distinctions. Of course, you're a guitarist and you could probably be on the beach here in San Diego."
},
{
"end_time": 858.012,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 828.797,
"text": " And next time we got to do this in person down up in Encinitas or wherever. But you could spend your whole days, you know, cashing royalty checks from your awesome musical career. And yet you don't do that. You don't rest on your laureate laurels, so to speak. And you've taken on this new mission. And really, you know, I have to confess, you know, in the beginning, when I first heard it, I was like, oh, why is this guy interested? He's not a scientist. He's not a military pilot. But you actually made this into an issue. I would have to say more than almost anyone in popular culture, you've made this an issue. Why is this so important to you?"
},
{
"end_time": 873.353,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 858.831,
"text": " You know, I've always been fascinated with like, kind of why we're here and what this is all about anybody that has any kind of similar wiring to me would understand, you know, growing up in a broken family and like,"
},
{
"end_time": 891.766,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 873.797,
"text": " I got kicked out of high school, you know, I just read a lot of bad tough kids and and I and my parents didn't get along, you know, and I just looked around a lot and I said this doesn't make any sense to me like really like somehow by accident or some weird design like I'm just supposed to only care about my bickering family and my my"
},
{
"end_time": 915.828,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 891.766,
"text": " School that I didn't really fit into and go and get a job that I hate so I kind of started early on on a quest of like not being like my parents, you know and and working for myself and I was I was an artist I wanted to create things but as an artist, you know You want people to emotionally get moved by the art that you're creating the whole good job of an artist is to digest the world and"
},
{
"end_time": 936.63,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 916.22,
"text": " And with your point of view, you kind of regurgitate it back to somebody, then they get to digest it and hopefully they see other points of view. I mean, that's what we do. That is our job description. So when I looked around, I was like, none of this makes sense. You know, what really moves me would be like, what's the layer deeper than all this? And that's when I started realizing"
},
{
"end_time": 952.995,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 936.971,
"text": " that there's an entire like kind of esoteric study out there that deals with consciousness and UFOs and, you know, cosmology and all these different things. But really, when you when you get into UFOs, at first, it's fascinating. At first, it's like, oh, my God, conspiracy theory, you know, this is fun. And then you start kind of going, wait,"
},
{
"end_time": 968.08,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 953.387,
"text": " Some of the shit is like real. There's no way there's an astronaut here. There's like a president. There's like, you know, director of the CIA or some admiral and you're kind of going, wait a second. And then you start diving deeper. And then when you dive deeper, I always tell people it's"
},
{
"end_time": 994.753,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 968.422,
"text": " you're not studying like events, really. I mean, those are fine. And you get into those the first few years. But really, if you study the subject, you're you're like Jim said, it's like, you know, you're getting into quantum mechanics, you're getting into consciousness, and you're looking at archaeology differently and petroglyphs and stuff. And you start to really soak in all the branches of the tree. And it seemed to me that all those things combined, it really created a glue"
},
{
"end_time": 1017.637,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 995.179,
"text": " In my mind, at least, that tied together so many disparate ends of what mankind is all about and what's been going on. It almost fit like a perfect puzzle piece. Not that I know everything. I don't know if anyone does, but for me, and it just became very evident that this was like, oh my, this is a puzzle piece that fits. It fits"
},
{
"end_time": 1042.142,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1018.012,
"text": " in all these things that I grew up, you know, having interactions with from like religion to government, national security stuff to advanced technology stuff to the history of mankind and so on. And I'm still on that quest. But on another note, it's the only thing that ever took me out of the maddening kind of obsession of trying to write a better song. Like when you're in a band, it's"
},
{
"end_time": 1071.135,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1042.892,
"text": " or you're painting a painting, any kind of art, it's only going to be as good as how much time you can put into it. And so what you end up doing is putting all your time into it, especially if you work for yourself. It's like your wife's like, join the family and you're playing guitar at one in the morning, go, no, I got to figure out this melody. Well, this is like the one thing that got me out of that because I need to learn all the time. I don't really like like predictable movies. I don't like normal fiction books and stuff, but this was like a fiction story."
},
{
"end_time": 1092.927,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1071.613,
"text": " But that has a bunch of things you can learn. It's like, it's just as fascinating, but you can really enrich your mind and soul by diving into some of these branches of the tree, you know, so here I am 20 years later, I put some good pieces together. But as Jim will tell you, the first day I met Jim, I was like, thank God, you know, he's like,"
},
{
"end_time": 1116.049,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1093.37,
"text": " Who are you and what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm looking for somebody to work with me. I think we can do something great for the world. I just don't really know how to do it by myself. I need, I need some help. And thankfully, Jim and a bunch of the people that he knew and was working with felt the same way. It's, it was just a good time to come together. Do you ever get, you know, kind of the, I'm sure you've had your share of"
},
{
"end_time": 1137.944,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1116.408,
"text": " of negative influences, maybe people that don't like you in some way for your music or this research. Do you find any commonalities though in kinds of the support or maybe the negative attention that you get? Because on the face of it, yes, there are aspects of it. But I would think naively, scientists, pilots, et cetera, we'd be the most interested. But you made the interesting point that it's part of culture."
},
{
"end_time": 1153.49,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1138.353,
"text": " And people don't appreciate that science is a form of culture to equal in every respect, in my opinion, to arts and you know, and letters and so forth. So do you find commonality there, Tom, just from the two different careers that you've had? I do. I mean,"
},
{
"end_time": 1176.493,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1154.155,
"text": " You know, it's funny, like one of the one of the when I was working with and I was building relationships with people before I knew Jim, that were, you know, high ranking former government officials or military people and stuff. I remember I wanted to thank them for their time listening to me, you know, and so one way to thank them that I came up with was in"
},
{
"end_time": 1199.718,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1176.749,
"text": " the government kind of military industrial complex world, they all create these challenge coins. Have you ever seen the challenge coins where it's like, I've got one here. Yeah, you got one there. Well, for the people watching, it's like, you know, these little coins that have like your platoon name on there, maybe the things you believe in, maybe it's the operation you're a part of. And here's one from my buddy in Afghanistan. Yeah, they all make them. They go."
},
{
"end_time": 1212.346,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1200.316,
"text": " So these little coins, you bring them out of bars and you owe each other drinks depending on who's got a better coin or whatever. So I decided to make a challenge point and I put on there the Vitruvian man, which was Da Vinci's, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1235.367,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1212.961,
"text": " two arms, two, you know, or four arms, four legs kind of thing. But what that stood for was art and science. And what I really liked about that, and this all comes full circle to your question was, art and science to me was something measurable with something that's infinite, you know, it's consciousness and zeros and ones to some degree. But when they come together, I think for the longest time, we've always separated consciousness and things that we don't understand,"
},
{
"end_time": 1252.517,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1235.367,
"text": " And we put it in religion, we just go, that's God's world. So we can't know that we can't measure that. Yeah, there you go. And, and so consciousness in metaphysics, and things we don't understand was supernatural paranormal. And it was in the realm of the Old Testament or something, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1272.602,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1252.517,
"text": " or other religions. But the Vitruvian man, this idea of bringing consciousness and science or art and science together, because art is really just a stream of consciousness. You're making things up. So the question is, is where are you getting that? You're some type of antenna, and you're pulling it from consciousness, in my view. So I use this on a challenge point to say, look, as an artist,"
},
{
"end_time": 1301.886,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1272.602,
"text": " And as something that's scientifically based here, if we can merge these together, the future of science, I think, is going to be once we understand consciousness, we take the realm of what used to be all religion or something, and we merge it with science, and now we got like this theory of everything. So I wanted to say that my project was that. It was an artist working with things that are tangible and measurable. And so I made these challenge coils, I put the Vitruvian man on there, and I gave them to everybody. And"
},
{
"end_time": 1329.053,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1301.886,
"text": " And for me, I got the same rush as being an artist, but with this, because I really felt that I was, I was putting something together with a point of view that people really haven't been able to spend time with or study or look at or notice. And it became kind of like the guiding North Star, the light, you know, was the merging of these two things. And it's just been a hell of a lot of fun along the way."
},
{
"end_time": 1353.234,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1329.394,
"text": " I'm curious and I'm clueless. When I research this topic, I'm just baffled and bewildered constantly. I don't know what to think."
},
{
"end_time": 1380.384,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1353.626,
"text": " When I spoke to Travis Walton recently, some people thought that I was a skeptic. That's actually not true. I'm asking detailed questions because I want to know what was the air like on this alien ship? I want to know what did the glass rod feel like? Was it heavy? Was gravity the same? And so on. So if I ask you detailed questions, please, it's out of a place of love. I'm curious to know about Skinwalker. You're asking Jim, right? I can ask whoever wants to answer."
},
{
"end_time": 1409.224,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1381.442,
"text": " What's going on at Skinwalker and what's its connection to UFOs? Well, I am by no means an expert on Skinwalker Ranch. Tom and I know all the people that are involved. George, Calm, Kelleher, and George Knapp, Calm, Kelleher. I've never met Mr. Bigelow. I was supposed to at one point, but it never happened."
},
{
"end_time": 1440.23,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1410.93,
"text": " I think that's a fascinating case. But I don't know whether I can actually discuss that in any kind of meaningful way because I wasn't there and I wasn't part of it. I read the book like everybody else. John Alexander is a dear friend of mine and he was there and we talk about it quite a bit. I think what had happened there was true and accurate and real. But I also believe that when you go looking for the phenomenon,"
},
{
"end_time": 1467.79,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1440.708,
"text": " It basically doesn't show itself. It doesn't like to do that. And after 40 years of studying that, you know, it's that low observability thing going on, you know, why we can never get a good picture of UAP. For some strange reason, it doesn't want to go there. So you mentioned earlier, you're dazed and confused. Well, yeah, I'm about as dazed and confused as you are by the whole thing. I have my own opinions based on what I know and based on what I've read, but"
},
{
"end_time": 1497.892,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1468.541,
"text": " Skinwalker is fascinating. From everybody I know that been there and done that, including some people that were not mentioned in the book, which I don't want to get into, but it's a pretty serious place and a lot of serious things happen there. But I'll let Tom go and talk more about that. Sure. What I find fascinating about Skinwalker is that you basically have the convergence of multiple"
},
{
"end_time": 1520.947,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1498.302,
"text": " you know, things happening, you know, so when you look at UFOs, you can find stories where somebody might come out and their cattle are missing or there's, you know, a cattle mutilation where blood is gone or parts of the jar dissected, maybe an eyeballs gone, maybe the reproductive, reproductive organs are gone or whatever. And a lot of like really"
},
{
"end_time": 1537.176,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1521.459,
"text": " weird things about it, like maybe the cuts are in between cells, maybe there's no vascular collapse, maybe it happened within 10 minutes when the farmer turned around or something. Then you have people that might have seen lights in the sky the night before when it happened."
},
{
"end_time": 1558.08,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1537.176,
"text": " You know, then there's people that have paranormal feelings, they might have seen like, you know, some type of entity that's invisible or something, they weren't quite sure. Then you have poltergeist events and other houses, whatever. But what's weird about skinwalkers, they were all happening there, you know, so you have all these things happening in one location. But as Jim said, it's like,"
},
{
"end_time": 1588.558,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1558.558,
"text": " super elusive. It's almost like it'll watch you be there for a week. And then the night you're driving away to go home, it's like you look in your rearview mirror and there's something crazy, you know, and it almost toys with you. That was something that they all seem to say, like it seemed like it knew that you wanted to see something you want to do something, whatever. What I find fascinating is that you have this one location where so many things are happening. And it's documented by a bunch of government people, a bunch of PhD scientists, a bunch of people that have lived there. And"
},
{
"end_time": 1609.087,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1588.558,
"text": " And not only documented over like a few months, we're talking like decades, you know, and it's kind of a hotspot where you can kind of dig into trying to find why are they all happening at this one location. And what interests me is that I think it gives us a potential pathway to discuss some"
},
{
"end_time": 1632.295,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1609.77,
"text": " alternate candidates for where they're from or what they're doing or how it all works. I think most people like to think of UFOs as they're coming from another planet. We found an exoplanet and it's coming there and how do they travel? Well, they could do it in 30 years and they go fast. Well, the data doesn't seem to suggest that really. It's more what's happening at Skinwalker where it seems like"
},
{
"end_time": 1658.404,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1632.79,
"text": " It's more about frequencies and dimensional or they materialize. It's almost like their displacement craft that displaces our time like a submarine would in the ocean. And that was a lot of what Dr. Hal Pudoff worked on on ATIP was understanding the attributes of the propulsion and the science that they're using. And I think once you think about UFOs using that kind of a technology,"
},
{
"end_time": 1679.906,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1659.138,
"text": " then it's kind of like well if they do that if they use that that means there's things that are adjacent to us that we don't see we don't understand but are like right here and every once in a while they can kind of cross over is it because we're aware of it and can see it and that opens it or is it because it's a geomagnetic"
},
{
"end_time": 1703.507,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1680.452,
"text": " area where those types of things have an easier time coming through. Or is it everywhere and we just think it's in one location? I don't know. I mean, there's a story that even happened there where they like, you know, they were there and they and they're talking about like government grade PhDs where they watch, you know, something in the atmosphere open up and something come through, not sure what it is."
},
{
"end_time": 1719.411,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1703.985,
"text": " And it was a huge event. So they run down to grab the cameras and see what was on the cameras. They open up these lock boxes and then like all the electronics are missing in the cameras. And they're like, wait, what? Like these were locked up. It's like a game. And so it gets really interesting where"
},
{
"end_time": 1740.213,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1720.094,
"text": " Is it a game? I don't know, but it might be a consciousness thing. And so I get passionate about a place like that because it gives you the ability to do to really jump into some wild stuff. I mean, one of the scientists there was walking through a field and they basically saw, you know, they saw they walked past"
},
{
"end_time": 1754.241,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1740.691,
"text": " Are you related or like a life?"
},
{
"end_time": 1782.961,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1754.667,
"text": " It was no, it was alive, you know, and then they run back into the house to go grab a gun or something to take care of it. And when they come out now, it has four broken legs, you know, or something. It's like creepy and like causing alarm because number one, it makes no sense. Number two, it's like, it's happening so quick that they can't even, and I got family showing up from the beach or, you know, you see people behind me, but you mentioned the beach, they all went to the beach earlier."
},
{
"end_time": 1812.875,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 1783.183,
"text": " What it seems to be is that it's an issue with time and an issue with moving it from here to here where we can't see it and back, and then people will see crap. I don't know. It's just wild, and it's so fascinating. I always tell people in Hollywood, because Tooth of Stars is getting into making movies and TV series and documentaries and stuff, and I just go, you don't need to sensationalize this stuff. You don't need to come up with"
},
{
"end_time": 1834.77,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 1813.148,
"text": " Have you come up with any theories as to why cattle mutilations occur? Me personally? Or heard any that you found to be interesting, credible?"
},
{
"end_time": 1851.681,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 1835.282,
"text": " Well, I wouldn't have any science to back anything up. So I can tell you, I'm a dreamer, you know, so I can come up with a bunch of ideas. I have some, you know, I've heard scientists discuss, you know, tracking our food supply, you know, trying to see if there's"
},
{
"end_time": 1877.483,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 1852.125,
"text": " things that are in our food supply that are affecting kind of how we evolve. Okay, that wasn't interesting. And there's a lot more to it, but it's not my place to get into that. I've heard people discuss that, you know, it's genetics or something. It's understanding a bit more about, you know, the life here on earth or whatever, then you get into way more far out stuff is maybe it has something to do with genetics with man, because maybe bovine type samples deal with"
},
{
"end_time": 1900.384,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 1877.637,
"text": " You know, the blood or the, I don't know, like the glands or something to do with, you know, people want to go way out and be science fiction about it, but I just don't know. And I think, I just think that what we are hearing is that people are seeing lights and craft in the sky in areas where they find these things. We know they're happening and have been happening for decades and decades, like not just like a few, like thousands."
},
{
"end_time": 1918.2,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 1900.725,
"text": " But no one really knows the reason why. Maybe someone somewhere in some basement knows, but I don't want to pretend that I know because I don't. But I do know people who've been studying this for like 30 years and they all tend to say the same thing. It's like it's happening in a way"
},
{
"end_time": 1938.046,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 1918.2,
"text": " that doesn't look like we can pull off what we're finding it just looks way i mean they found cattle with organs like their heart missing but no incisions anywhere like somehow they reached in and just grabbed it and pulled it out you know so it's like what does that mean what is i don't know but it's it's it's wild for sure how do you take the reaction in terms of"
},
{
"end_time": 1955.503,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 1938.046,
"text": " You know, people coming and saying, you are basically a repository for people to come forward to come out, etc. That's, you know, it's sort of a unique role for you, Tom, right? It's, it's now you're almost like a priest in confessional and, and people coming exactly."
},
{
"end_time": 1976.544,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 1956.92,
"text": " How is that? How do you deal with that pressure? How do you deal with the, with the notion of, you know, kind of this, this you become the face and symbolizing a lot of this. And, and there's a wonderful clip that one of your fans put out on Twitter. I saw yesterday or a couple of days, you know, it was like what you said in 2017, you know, Joe Rogan show. And then like slowly, as they say, you know, first"
},
{
"end_time": 1998.592,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 1976.732,
"text": " creative ideas are dismissed as lunacy, then they're mocked, then they're ridiculed, then they're accepted as trivial and known all along. So now that these Pentagon report, which we have to get into, and maybe I'd love to hear, get Jim's take first on that. Jim, when this came out, did you feel like it answered more questions? For me, I felt like it answered more questions. I mean, honestly, I am a skeptic."
},
{
"end_time": 2019.019,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 1998.592,
"text": " I have to say, as a scientist, there's no one, Tom and Jim, Kurt already knows this, that would be more kind of thrilled, delighted to skip the line, as my friend James Altucher says, and go from the physics of 2021 to the physics required, maybe 2121 or beyond. I would love to do that. First of all, I'd get multiple Nobel prizes."
},
{
"end_time": 2043.763,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2019.019,
"text": " Second of all, I would satisfy the personal curiosity that sounds like Tom and Jim and Kurt. We all have to understand the nature of reality, because let's face it, guys, we're only here for a short amount of time. We're given maybe the biblical age of 120. That's about it. But if we could skip that line, avoid death, avoid, you know, interstellar, you know, kind of have the secrets to these advanced technologies and"
},
{
"end_time": 2062.21,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2043.763,
"text": " to advance knowledge. That to me is the pinnacle of what homo sapiens could achieve. Jim, when you look at this, when you hear these complaints and so forth, people being skeptic, do you feel like skeptics have a point? I mean, are we just like kind of curmudgeons and we're just not hearing the truth that you guys are telling or, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 2091.203,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2062.21,
"text": " You have feet in both worlds. You're in the military and the government, but you're also in the community that Tom's in. What do you feel is the right approach here? Believe everything, believe nothing. How do you split those atoms? That's an excellent question. I think you just said it. Believe everything, believe nothing. I'm not a skeptic by the stretch of the imagination. I was not surprised in the least when the"
},
{
"end_time": 2117.329,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2091.51,
"text": " When the UAP Task Force report came out, I understood what it was going to be. It's just an adumbration. It was an outline of what they're planning on doing. There's no way they can put together any kind of substantive report, any kind of intelligence assessment based on this in the short amount of time that they had. And they only took 144 incidents. My god. I mean, that's just from the Navy."
},
{
"end_time": 2143.848,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2117.739,
"text": " I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of incidents that have happened that credible witnesses have seen. So I wasn't surprised. I thought the writing in there was obviously done by the DNI. It was very, very well crafted, very tight writing. I think they took some pot shots at the Air Force, which I'm glad they did, because I don't know where the hell the Air Force has been in all this. Well, actually, I sort of do, but"
},
{
"end_time": 2171.698,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2144.667,
"text": " Um, uh, but the most important piece I felt, uh, was the deputy secretary defense memo. They came out at the same time that was issued on July 25th. That memo came out and said, knock it off. Cat's out of the bag. We are going to go after this. We're going to, we're going to develop requirements and requirements are basically means that it's an intelligence term for, uh, for questions. We're going to develop these questions. Everybody's going to have to answer them."
},
{
"end_time": 2200.623,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2172.022,
"text": " And, and, and, and we're going to put money towards this. We're going to put people towards this. That's huge. That's absolutely huge. And, um, and, uh, so I thought I was very, very happy when, when, when, when I saw that now, when they talked about in the report, you know, they had these, these areas, these categories, you know, about what they think it could be, you know, air, air clutter and, and, and what have you, and then going down, it could be this, it could be that it could be the Russians or Chinese."
},
{
"end_time": 2224.292,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2201.305,
"text": " Look, I've studied Russian and Chinese high technology for my whole career. These UAPs, or whatever the hell they are, I mean, we call them UAPs, we really don't know what they are. They're not Russian, and they're not Chinese. And they're definitely not ours. They're just not. That leaves nothing."
},
{
"end_time": 2253.746,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2225.094,
"text": " left, except they're something else. And what that something else is, I don't know. I was on TV a couple of weeks ago when I called it. I was prodded by the producers that say something, say something. And I called it I called it a non human technology. And I guess that's the best way I can go. But I don't think science right now"
},
{
"end_time": 2281.152,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2254.138,
"text": " has the ability to look at this in a way that they want to look at it and it's not their fault and it's because you know there's no reliability here, there's no predictability here. This phenomenon plays with us, it teases us, it cajoles us, it gets close but you can't get too close to it. Sometimes it appears to people up close and personal, other times it doesn't."
},
{
"end_time": 2307.21,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2281.578,
"text": " But if you notice with the Navy, I mean, you know, what is it actually saying? I mean, you know, are they trying to communicate with us or are they basically just trying to affect us socioculturally? When you talked earlier about cattle mutilations, hell yeah, cattle mutilations are real, don't really know what's happening with them. But when you look at what the real effect of that is, the real effect of that is, is all of us sitting here and looking at that,"
},
{
"end_time": 2335.111,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2307.722,
"text": " And all of a sudden, our cultural norms and social norms, things change. Things change. And I know Jacques Vallee talks about this quite a bit. And I'm a huge fan of his. Are they here to basically change us? Are they more of a control mechanism? And the answer is that we don't know. We have tons of questions, zero answers. I think science has a huge, huge way ahead of them. I mean, it's going to be very, very difficult."
},
{
"end_time": 2364.07,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2335.674,
"text": " But I don't think we have any options except to investigate this. But it's clearly not human. Not human as we know it, yes. Kurt, you've had Jack on. What are your takes? And also Kevin Newth, who's a physics professor in New York State. Talk about your peregrinations, your explorations of this phenomenon. Kurt, what have you kind of surmised as a physicist, as a scientist? What kinds of thoughts do you have about"
},
{
"end_time": 2391.237,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2364.599,
"text": " Approaching this from the colleague of, as you know, our colleagues are very skeptical of some of these kinds of cattle mutilation. What does that have to do with physics? What does that have to do with aliens and other planets and where would they come from? How would they get here? How could these are anyway, Kurt, my brother, tell me, what do you make of your explorations of this as a topic? How have you been influenced, changed, perhaps not mutilated, but how has your mind gotten mutilated in a certain sense? Where do you stand now?"
},
{
"end_time": 2422.142,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2392.261,
"text": " Well, I'm probably, much like most people here, used to be a staunch skeptic, an ardent one, an arrogant one. Not saying that you're not arrogant at all, Brian, but most are, let's say. That's not true. And now I don't know what to think. I don't know if you've played this game called Metal Gear Solid, but at some points when you get spotted, there's an exclamation point that goes over the guard's head. I feel like that all the time, just constantly. What the heck is happening? What the heck is this? What does this mean? How does this fit with this?"
},
{
"end_time": 2446.971,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2424.258,
"text": " So I don't know, I don't even know if there's one alien species, if it's a subspecies, if there are aliens to begin with, if it's multiple races, if it's factions, I don't know. Can I add something to this conversation? Let me give you the government perspective on this. As an intelligence officer for a long, long time, I will tell you,"
},
{
"end_time": 2474.889,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2447.534,
"text": " that back in 1945, actually, you know, this phenomena has been seen since the beginning of time, all major religions have talked about it. We started seeing more of it in the 40s, actually during World War Two, and then later on afterwards, when General Twining came out in 1947, and basically said, look, these are real, these are serious, we're going to have to look at it. And then we had project sign, project grudge, and then, you know, the, you know, blue block, and then"
},
{
"end_time": 2493.456,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2475.691,
"text": " We had all these other things, the Condon report and what have you, where they basically came out and said, screw it, we're not going to do this anymore. Absolute nonsense. There's no way that the Air Force or the intelligence community is going to give up on something like this. That is a very, very real"
},
{
"end_time": 2523.968,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2494.497,
"text": " phenomenon that we don't, I don't think it's a threat at all, to be honest with you. I just, I think it's totally indifferent to who the hell we are, but, but nevertheless, it has to be looked at. The military and the intelligence community does not ignore that. They will not ignore that. And, you know, and, and, and this, it's always going to be bubbling up in the background. It may be in some deep black program, some hidden someplace, but I would be shocked and surprised if that isn't what's going on, that we haven't been seriously studying this"
},
{
"end_time": 2550.128,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2524.241,
"text": " for the last 70 or 80 years. There's no way. There's no way. When you look at the Stargate program, that was a direct reaction to Soviet experiments in psychic phenomena. They were doing that. We had to figure out why they were doing that and what they found out. And I can tell you other stories. I mean, crazy technology to think didn't know exists, but actually do exist."
},
{
"end_time": 2580.333,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2551.578,
"text": " and and you you find out that other other countries are working on them or trying them and say what have you look there's a huge national national security element in all this too so i mean you know nobody wants to share this data publicly because as they say you know you tell your friends you tell your enemy so a lot of that stuff is hidden and i i don't blame the government for hiding a lot of this stuff either if there is a true and honest national security uh problem associated with this but you know i i just find it extremely difficult uh"
},
{
"end_time": 2608.66,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2580.794,
"text": " with skeptics who, who tell me like when they see this stuff and they go, well, I don't know what it is. Look at that's agreeable. I mean, I don't know what it is either, but it is there and no one has an answer to it. And, and please don't tell me it belongs to, you know, China or Russia or some other act. That's just nonsense. I think that was an out that the UAP task force had to use. Um, um, I mean, once you've read the literature, once you've been read in, it's read in on some of these programs, just, I'm sorry, it just,"
},
{
"end_time": 2617.005,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2608.951,
"text": " I'm not a skeptic that exists. I just don't know what the hell it is."
},
{
"end_time": 2644.531,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2617.278,
"text": " your quote, opponents perspective. In other words, what's the best argument you've heard counter to your own position, Jim and Tom, especially. But before I do that, I want to just make, take a reset and tell everybody who we're talking to Tom DeLong, of course, the to the stars Academy and also Jim some event of to the stars Academy, former CIA play and Kurt J. Mungle host of the theories of everything channel, which has done yeoman's work. Kurt, you're, you're really a role model in many ways to many YouTubers."
},
{
"end_time": 2674.394,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2644.804,
"text": " We've got a lot of people listening, Jeremy Reese in the chat room and many other people. But Tom, I want to ask you, when I talk to my fellow scientists about this, and I talked to somebody who's a member of, I don't know if you're familiar with this organization called the Jason's. Jason's are a secret. I'm sure Jim knows about them too. So they actually meet here in San Diego once a year, at least they did before COVID. And they tell me, I said, wouldn't you think like the best and brightest would be at least interested involved in this? And they said, no, they haven't asked us, the government hasn't asked us to investigate it."
},
{
"end_time": 2703.626,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2674.394,
"text": " We're not just going to go off and investigate stuff on our own. Why would this organization, assuming he's telling me the truth and she, there's actually multiple people, members of the Jason's have told me the same thing. No, we're not investigating these phenomena. Uh, is that insulting to you? How do you take that? Is that proper skepticism? Is that, is that, um, in my experience, um, in my experience, even the people that are very much involved on this stuff would tell you that exact same answer. You know, Jim can explain."
},
{
"end_time": 2729.957,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 2704.019,
"text": " security clearances and national security stuff. I don't know that kind of stuff. I just know through osmosis kind of how it's treated. But when I first met a bunch of people that were involved on this subject before I even knew Jim, I remember specifically, I was in one place and there's a big wig I was talking to and he goes, we don't"
},
{
"end_time": 2749.718,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 2730.418,
"text": " ever look at that subject. We don't care about that subject. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any of that is even real, yada, yada, yada. And I was like, okay, thanks. And then I left that person's company, or that person's table and went right outside the door. And there's these other two guys that work directly under him that said,"
},
{
"end_time": 2777.039,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 2749.718,
"text": " We want to talk about this.\" And they talked about it for an hour. And it was like, nothing classified. They can't go there. But it was just like, some people are more open to it, and some people aren't. But the people that are dealing directly with something that's classified, they're never going to even talk about it. As far as the best and the brightest, I guess that's subjective. Because who knows if the Jasons really are or not? I've always heard that they kind of were. But"
},
{
"end_time": 2805.776,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 2777.039,
"text": " I think that you have incredible people at the National Academy of Sciences, you have incredible people at the national laboratories, you have incredible people at the Lockheed Martins and the Bowings and they're everywhere. And I think that it's not exclusive that we need this one group of scientists or whatever. Who knows if something's been studied for decades and decades, they're going to choose people that are the best and the brightest that can keep their mouth shut because it probably has these big national security elements that come with it."
},
{
"end_time": 2825.862,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 2805.776,
"text": " And they're going to find people that bring value in ways that they need. It's not just like a blanket, like, you're a great scientist, we're going to bring you in. I mean, I, as far as I know, and what I've learned, you know, black programs don't really work that way. But I'll tell you directly, directly direct experience that"
},
{
"end_time": 2848.063,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 2826.118,
"text": " In the very beginning, everyone said that to me. And because they don't need to open up a conversation with me, they don't need to talk about it. They're not going to get anything out of it. If anything, they're just going to get in trouble or make them feel like they need to go back and report a conversation where something slipped or something. So I just don't think that's the right route. But what I will hear that sound"
},
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"text": " I talked to the former head of the task force before it's in its current form, however that works. And I asked him, I said, what's the biggest change now that we were able to bring the UFO subject out into the mainstream? And he told me, he said, for the first time ever, we can talk about this in the halls of the Pentagon. Up until this point, you know, it was always in a skiff underground somewhere, you know? I heard similar things from Alexander Dietrich, who's a renowned fighter pilot who was involved along with"
},
{
"end_time": 3005.503,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 2998.916,
"text": " with Commander Fravor and the so-called tic-tac incident. And one very valuable thing that this has elucidated is the"
},
{
"end_time": 3031.067,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3005.811,
"text": " breaking down those barriers, the insecurity, the humiliation, the kind of taboo for military pilots who are heroes far beyond what I'm capable of doing. And they volunteered to put their lives on the line. If these are military threats or even weather balloons or whatever, we owe it to our warfighters to make sure that they're safe and secure. So taking away the taboo has been incredibly important for me."
},
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"text": " If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart. Plus, 100 free blades when you head to h-e-n-s-o-n-s-h-a-v-i-n-g dot com slash everything and use the code everything. Kurt, do you have some questions from your audience or from you that you want to pose? Because these gentlemen have a hard cut out in about 40 minutes, 30, 40 minutes."
},
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"text": " Yeah, there's this person named Red Panda Koala. Tom, have you seen the documentary on yourself? I have not. No. A wonderful, concise, 60 minute summation of your work in this UFO topic. And he or she asks, what was it that Tom was told that kept him up for three days? Oh, well, I don't talk about that, but there was, I remember, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 3167.875,
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"text": " I remember having discussions, the company that I keep with people like Jim, they just, you know, and how, and the way their minds, what's really cool about Jim, by the way, is that I've learned how to parse information a lot better. I'm not going to ever be, you know, him, you know, this guy is master spy, you know, but, but I don't, I don't, I learn a lot, like, like,"
},
{
"end_time": 3191.817,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3167.875,
"text": " Learning how to be a little bit more skeptical of information and being able to put these things together and think differently. But they're all such really big thinkers and they don't just grab onto a piece of data because it exists and says, oh, this matters and this means everything. It's very much like forming patterns and analyzing over time. So I remember like hanging out with all these guys in the beginning and"
},
{
"end_time": 3207.108,
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"text": " And one of the bigger things was just about me understanding the stakes of this because you come into this as a, and this kind of answers your question about like what keeps me up at night or what kept me up when I was discussing things was not understanding the stakes."
},
{
"end_time": 3231.288,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3207.108,
"text": " Not really coming to grips with this being real. Like it's one thing when you when you see a video or you read it in a book, you know, and you're like, oh, whoa, this is all, you know, but you don't know if the video is real. That's why it was so important with the ones we brought out had chain of title all the way back to the DOD. So we knew those were real. It wasn't just like it was on YouTube and leaked. So it's the idea of bringing forth things that you know where they come from."
},
{
"end_time": 3249.599,
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"start_time": 3231.288,
"text": " And you really take it from that point forward and start getting really good data and evidence on people's encounters and the stakes that come with that. And when I've talked about this as a threat, you know, that's just my words, right? I mean, I would never know the way the government does."
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"text": " treats that. That's not my zone, obviously. But for me, in my own personal research, if something's been here for a long period of time, and it really is showing up in people's bedrooms or in front of an F-18 or on a petroglyph wall or in an ancient text down in the archives of the Vatican or whatever it might be, it's obviously doing something. And it's obviously having an influence. And it might only be an influence on where we end up as mankind. Or it might be an influence to keep us suppressed,"
},
{
"end_time": 3304.667,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3278.985,
"text": " in a weird way to where they can take advantage of something, who knows? But it's here for a reason, and it's not really being forward about its intent. But we do know that we've been dealing with it for a long period of time. And so when you start coming to the way they think and the stakes involved and the reality of it, and I start hearing about these encounters from the people that were there,"
},
{
"end_time": 3323.217,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3305.111,
"text": " I remember in regards to the question you asked, I was out in Colorado Springs and I had a meeting with a couple of generals. And we were just shooting the shit about all this stuff on and something was discussed that, you know, it wasn't some big classified thing it was more like."
},
{
"end_time": 3346.8,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3323.609,
"text": " things that people are having happen to them or witnessing. And it's an issue. And I remember waking up in the middle of night, just go, I was like, you start to look around you not really trust your environment. You know, it's like, Whoa, like, really? Like, this is real. Like, my mom is a is really religious. Like, she's like, a born again Christian and in hardcore fanatic, you know, religious woman and"
},
{
"end_time": 3366.8,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3346.8,
"text": " And I grew up in a household my dad wasn't so that's part of like the big butting of the heads and it was a broken home but I remember thinking at that time frame when I was talking about some of these things that I saw I discuss where I was where I couldn't sleep very well was I was like if my mom really believed that Jesus"
},
{
"end_time": 3390.196,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3367.261,
"text": " is real and would show up in her room and float towards her with a crown of thorn. I mean, she would freak, she would have a heart attack. That would scare her even though she bases her whole life on it, like who she hangs out with, where she goes on weekends and weeknights, who she might date or marry again. Every call she calls me, she's praying. So she believes this viscerally. But if she saw something like that,"
},
{
"end_time": 3419.65,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3390.623,
"text": " It's a different deal once it's like really real. It's not just reading in a book and believing in it. And that's kind of what I came to with the whole UFO thing. It wasn't just like believing it. It was like, oh my God, this is real. This is like real, not just that we're talking about it and we saw it on the news or we saw it on YouTube. It's like when you're alone in your bedroom in the middle of the night, you got to look around and go, who knows what can happen? And that's kind of where I've landed over the past few years is just like going anything as possible."
},
{
"end_time": 3444.599,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3420.196,
"text": " Does your mom think that what you're doing is an act of evil or you're studying evil that you shouldn't know what you're doing? She loves me too much and is too supportive to have that thought. So in her head, it's like this. It's probably a crisis of conscience, you know, where it's like, these don't all map up, you know, but this is what I tell people. And I really believe this. I'm not speaking for Jim or the company. This is my own personal thing."
},
{
"end_time": 3474.121,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3444.599,
"text": " I have a feeling that when we really learn about consciousness and we really learn kind of what these things are, this phenomena is, I think we're going to, like I said earlier, we're going to merge this metaphysical consciousness type of science with normal science. And once it becomes all one, we might look at religions differently, but I think everyone's going to be able to keep the things they love, which is really not all the dogma and the stories that we argue about, but when it comes down to"
},
{
"end_time": 3500.947,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3474.548,
"text": " you know, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or Godhead, your soul and the physical body. It's all the same three things. That Trinity thing is like kind of everywhere. It's all about you as a person with your connection to consciousness, you know, the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit kind of thing. So I think what will happen is everyone's so scared that religions will crumble. And I'm kind of like, no, it's going to be the great equalizer that the only three things that matter in all of these things is"
},
{
"end_time": 3509.462,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3501.186,
"text": " us as a physical person with our connection to something bigger and so I don't think people are going to be alienated. I don't think they might"
},
{
"end_time": 3535.964,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3509.65,
"text": " you know, be bummed that the story of the locusts coming out didn't apply, you know, or something. But I think that the things that matter stay, which is, you know, I used to go to my mom and say, like, you know, I'll go, why are you a Christian? Like, what, like, what is it show? I know it, I've seen things, I felt things, I just know in my heart. But then, you know, and she goes, and we've healed the blind, we prayed, and they can heal the blind, that's happened. I'm all, well, that's happened in Islam, too."
},
{
"end_time": 3564.48,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3536.425,
"text": " It has. So why is it happening in other religions and here? And my whole point was, it's not about the stories. It's physics. And people like yourself are going to help us all understand that here in the future. So Jim and Tom, a question from Sarah Skolls, who's a friend of mine who wrote a book. They are already here in part about Tom. She's a wonderful soul. She asks about, where do things go from now and here maybe?"
},
{
"end_time": 3587.073,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3564.787,
"text": " Now that Luis Elizondo and Chris Mellon aren't part of TTSA, how does that affect your mission, guys? How should that be interpreted? If you were not being charitable, you might say, oh, that's a sign they have internal strife. But is there some other explanation? Or where do you see things going now that these two very prominent"
},
{
"end_time": 3596.664,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3587.415,
"text": " supporters of the narrative that you guys are also supporting have departed from TTSA, at least. I understand from Jim that you guys are on good terms, but where do you go from here?"
},
{
"end_time": 3617.739,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3596.903,
"text": " Well, I mean, a lot, there's so much going on. Number one, the pandemic hit, we're a startup, so we're not giant. We have more people from the government that want to be a part of what we're doing than we have space for. So that's not the issue. With those people in particular, when the pandemic hit, it really caused us as a young company to choose one lane rather than trying to do multiple lanes."
},
{
"end_time": 3634.07,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3617.739,
"text": " And during the pandemic, the Defense Authorization Act, they couldn't get it passed. They couldn't fund any more research projects with new companies, new programs. And we were a new company with a new program. So we were kind of stuck in this like,"
},
{
"end_time": 3651.425,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 3634.07,
"text": " It created an opportunity to focus the company"
},
{
"end_time": 3673.848,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 3651.425,
"text": " and get everything really streamlined to grow quickly without trying to dilute ourselves in places where we can't compete with a Lockheed Martin or whatever. But we really wanted to get these things off the ground, some of these early programs, some of which how is still chasing some of which like we still have an open contract with the government on some of the material that we got. But Chris Mellon without I don't want to speak for him, but I do know Chris"
},
{
"end_time": 3699.906,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 3673.848,
"text": " is involved in a lot of things back in DC, specifically with trying to get this thing pressed through Congress and with oversight and the task force. And he's so deep in it that I think it frees up a lot of time and gets him kind of away from the entertainment part, which you don't really, it doesn't mix well with the government stuff. And Jim, it'd be better for you to talk about some of this stuff. But that was what we kind of found was some of those issues, I guess,"
},
{
"end_time": 3723.029,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 3700.213,
"text": " Yeah, that's pretty much it. And I think Chris needed to go his own way as with Lou. They wanted to pursue other things that weren't, quote unquote, entertainment focused. I get that completely. And they are doing, I think it's just an outstanding job. Both of them, I'm just a huge fan. We're all huge fans of them."
},
{
"end_time": 3751.92,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 3723.268,
"text": " In terms of the partnership between TTSA and the government, there was"
},
{
"end_time": 3777.449,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 3752.278,
"text": " I didn't actually see this, but according to my friend Mick West, he says JJ Abrams UFO documentary episode three suggests TTSA might be part of a government disinformation program. That's what I signed up for. I was like, how do I lie to my friends and my family? Can I just comment on that? First of all, you know, that's, that's rather insulting. It's insulting, you know, not only to me and, you know, and all the people that work for the government, what have you."
},
{
"end_time": 3806.22,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 3778.029,
"text": " You can't have a disinformation program in the government. It's illegal. You can't do that. I wouldn't do that personally. I mean, that's terrible. And you cannot influence the population of the United States. Governments can't do that. It's called an operation, and you can't have that. We don't do that. And as a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons I don't like going on shows"
},
{
"end_time": 3835.469,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 3807.073,
"text": " Because when people come up with these questions, you know, you sort of sit there and you look at them and say, well, if you really knew how the government worked, you know, when I was in CIA, I mean, you know, when I was in the senior service, and at one point I was running rather large programs, I had lawyers all around me. I mean, you couldn't make a decision without making sure that you were right on the money. And we, CIA in particular, it's a great organization. I mean, they've made a lot of mistakes in the past, but by and large, it's a very, very straight laced organization. You do not do anything."
},
{
"end_time": 3863.541,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 3835.896,
"text": " that would in any way harm a U.S. citizen or the population in general. So that's bogus. Yeah, no, okay. And I appreciate that so much. And believe me, you know, no one has more respect that didn't serve at least than me. I mean, my father served in the U.S. But I do want to say, you know, I mean, one thing just to criticize the government that I do love and support, and it's the best country on earth, I'll say that, except maybe Canada, Kurt's going to speak up about the"
},
{
"end_time": 3882.91,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 3863.831,
"text": " The 50 first state to the north up there. But anyway, in all seriousness, you know, I look at COVID-19 and I look at, you know, the trillions of dollars that go from our 16% of our entire budget goes to the military, CIA, FBI, all these NSA. I remember going to dinner in 2020, in January 2020, my friend had told me"
},
{
"end_time": 3905.981,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 3882.91,
"text": " You just got an invitation to go to China. Are you going to go, Brian? I said, I don't know. And he said, you shouldn't go because China is building this hospital slash prison. They're going to start locking people in because this thing called COVID. I said, OK, well, I'll keep my eye on it. I'm not going to go to not in a rush to go to Tibet anyway. I'd love to go someday. But but they knew about it. My friend at dinner knew about it. In other words, Jim and trillions of dollars of and the countless lives that were lost"
},
{
"end_time": 3934.48,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 3906.323,
"text": " precious individual lives lost in America because, you know, and you think with this huge apparatus, uh, that they'd be capable of doing something, preventing something. And I don't want to get into politics. I, I hate politics and that's why I'm an astronomer because there's no democratic comet. There's no Republican asteroid. Right. So talk about the government. Like could they do, could they cover up something like this? Could they do it malevolently as you're saying the CIA is basically, let's just call it what it is. You're saying they're, they're comprised of good people, good men and women, honest Patriots."
},
{
"end_time": 3962.295,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 3934.889,
"text": " How come they weren't on top of something like COVID, which was, you know, known to my dinner party guests? Well, you know, let me just say this. The last 10 years, I consulted with the intelligence community and I was working on counter biological weapons. And one of the corollaries to that was, you know, working on pandemics and talking about pandemics. I can't tell you how many meetings I sat in with the government from people that did nothing."
},
{
"end_time": 3989.565,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 3962.483,
"text": " But talk about the coming pandemic. CIA has written intelligence assessments on it. So has DIA. I mean, almost every government agency has come out and warned people that this is going to be happening down the road. And it's just a question of when. But the problem with this is nobody listens. The government does not listen. Congress doesn't listen. And the Senate doesn't listen until it happens. And when it happens, they jump up in the air, start pointing fingers."
},
{
"end_time": 4019.548,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 3989.991,
"text": " It's a shame. It really truly is. 9-11 was the same way. We were screaming, you know, bloody murder about, you know, about Osama bin Laden. This is what's going to happen. And we think this is going to happen soon. And people just look at it and, you know, say, well, I don't really believe it could happen. But no, in many, I mean, there are a lot of times where the intelligence community fails. But a lot of these, no, we were not, we were right on top of all this early on. But nobody wanted to spend money, billions of dollars creating"
},
{
"end_time": 4050.077,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4020.828,
"text": " say a, you know, a vaccine that could, you know, help, you know, something when there wasn't one, when there wasn't a pathogen out there yet. So, and, you know, the government budgets, I mean, we can have a whole program on government budgets and how money is spent. And it's usually spent on quarterly things, the things that you absolutely have to do. So anything that's looked in the future, like UAPs, by the way, you know, low probability, high impact events like that, they don't get the kind of"
},
{
"end_time": 4077.534,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4050.794,
"text": " You want to ask some of your viewers questions? Yeah, well about the government not participating in disinformation, I'm curious. There's MKUltra, Project Mockingbird or Operation Mockingbird and Project Blue Book and quite a few others. So what do you make of that? And also even if it is illegal, it's not as if the government hasn't done what's illegal before. Oh, no, no, the government has"
},
{
"end_time": 4106.681,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4078.404,
"text": " Oh, absolutely. I'm not making excuses for the government. I mean, the government has done some terrible things. It wasn't until 1976, for instance, when the CIA was held held accountable is really when all that stopped. When MKUltra came out and and and I can't remember the name of the commission, but it was Gerald Ford was running it and it actually gave presentations on it. I don't know why it's slipping my mind right now. But but essentially,"
},
{
"end_time": 4130.145,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4107.039,
"text": " Ramparts magazine had a big article on this and the intelligence community just changed right there. I mean MKUltra was a program, you know, they were experimenting with hallucinogenics because they thought they could control people's minds because they knew that the Russians were experimenting with it. So they were doing it. It was a terrible, terrible program. And it was an awful program. People died"
},
{
"end_time": 4153.899,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4131.203,
"text": " But you know, and then they burned all the files, so we don't know what the hell happened. And this has gone on throughout the government in the very beginnings, but as the government gets older, and as we learn from these mistakes, things really do get better. So yeah, I mean, when you look at like the Condon report, that was a total whitewash."
},
{
"end_time": 4177.346,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4154.428,
"text": " And they basically came out and said, you know, we're just going to, we're just going to make fun of people who believe in UAPs and UFOs and all this kind of stuff. And that was all, they shouldn't have done that. And it was actually one of the reasons why a lot of us in this, these unofficial government workers decided we're going to go out, we're going to take this private. We told the highest levels of government, that's what we're going to be doing."
},
{
"end_time": 4207.193,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4178.302,
"text": " I have a quick question."
},
{
"end_time": 4235.896,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4208.353,
"text": " Are you aware of any government whether it's our own having possession of an alien body? Are you asking me any? Jim or Tom? I'm not gonna comment on Yeah, I'm not, you know, I think there's no way for us to be aware. I mean, we all hear the stories, we all talk about it online or read about it online. Um, you know, we're that's one of the reasons why we're trying to figure out about the material that we got. So"
},
{
"end_time": 4264.019,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4236.237,
"text": " We have material from a purported crash in the late 40s. We don't really have a chain of title all the way back then. We do for like 20 years or something. We know there's a lot of anomalies about the way it's engineered. We have some theories of what it can do. There's been a lot of studies on it. The government's very interested in this piece. But if that piece ended up being real, then it's like, well, what else was it a part of? And who was piloting this thing? Was it a drone? Was it not? I think it kind of gets us to ask a lot of questions."
},
{
"end_time": 4294.155,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4264.343,
"text": " I have, you know, I'm under the thinking that, you know, if there's things that have been around here for thousands of years, then there's absolutely the potential for some of these stories to be real. The problem is, is like, you're not going to get anybody to come out and just say that so easily. I think that there's steps to this. You know, I look at the task force report and I look at what's going on now. And, and if I, if there was such a thing like bodies or craft or whatever, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 4299.019,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4294.411,
"text": " And they're so advanced and they're somehow influencing"
},
{
"end_time": 4329.531,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4299.804,
"text": " the you know mankind and the way we are engineered to evolve or something crazy i mean because i look at us now it's like first we we got into the biology of our bodies and then we got deeper and we got into like you know um dna and what that's doing and every time we master parts of the body and parts of you know the world we see and touch and feel like what's the next thing well i think the next thing is going to be discovering consciousness and then we're going to go how do we manipulate consciousness and how do we capture it and how do we are you know so i'm kind of thinking of this these"
},
{
"end_time": 4356.63,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4329.531,
"text": " beings have been around for so long, they must be so far beyond wondering about our DNA or wondering about what our spleen does. I think it's going to be probably unnerving, probably complicated, probably a lot that we don't know. And so the idea of the government just coming out and saying, hey, look what we got before they know what it is, doesn't make any sense to me. And I tell my friends this, I go, if someone like Jim"
},
{
"end_time": 4383.951,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4357.346,
"text": " caught some dude sneaking a nuclear weapon, you know, through the border of Canada somewhere into the States, you know, are they going to stop and tell us all about it and really just talk about it? Or are they going to go and try and track down the guy who he was working with, where he got the parts, where the device is, you know, it goes on and it might take some time. Now imagine if that device was like handing an iPhone to a cow and the cow was like, I got to figure out what this iPhone is."
},
{
"end_time": 4398.336,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4383.951,
"text": " So I think that the logical steps that one would take are exactly kind of what's happening, which was a number of years trying to figure out something, trying to come up with a plan that helped understand it or whatever."
},
{
"end_time": 4427.432,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4398.78,
"text": " And then it's like, okay, now let's create a proper organization to start getting more data and letting people know that the data is real and that we need to study this. And then over time, being able to say, this is what we learned, you know, it's real and now we're studying it and this is how they fly. And it looks like they might be doing this and that, you know, and so I think we're doing the logical steps now that might one day lead to we've collected some stuff, you know, but I don't think that if they, even if they did,"
},
{
"end_time": 4445.674,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4428.2,
"text": " I wouldn't knowing what I know about this subject, which isn't like a lot. I feel like it's a lot but but who knows, because they say like studying space is like if we were to study the oceans, it's like we know a half a cup of water of the oceans. That's how much we know about it. Yeah, so I just, I think this is I think you're seeing"
},
{
"end_time": 4473.712,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4445.981,
"text": " a rational, logical progression of something extremely complicated starting to be formed to come out after a long period of time of digging in and trying to wrap their heads around it. That's what it looks like to me. And a big taboo. And you in particular, Tom, you know, doing yeoman's work to make this less taboo, to make it into the public consciousness. And yet I'm curious how you react to my colleagues, professors, astronomers who spend our days"
},
{
"end_time": 4486.34,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4473.968,
"text": " I heard Commander Fravor saying on Lex Friedman's podcast, we are trained pilots. We are trained to use our senses, our eyes and our tools and our technology. Well, so are astronomers. We're pretty good at looking up and things in space."
},
{
"end_time": 4515.555,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4486.51,
"text": " We survey the sky with high cadence, with quite great frequency. Some right here in Southern California, as you know, look out your window and see Mount Palomar. But I want to ask you, how do you react to those that say, well, astronomers would like nothing better than for these craft to be real, again, so that we could bypass the line and skip from the equivalent of Euclid 2000 years ago to Einstein. That would be a tremendous boost towards humanity. And no one would have a negative state in that in the astronomical community. You might say,"
},
{
"end_time": 4540.145,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4515.555,
"text": " government does and that they want to keep us comfortable and happy and not in revolution, but big astronomy doesn't exist. So how do you react to that? That astronomers would like nothing more for these to be real. We don't have credible reports in any sensor and any wavelength, any frequency, any polarization time of day, year that where it's really credibly come out and been verified, peer reviewed, however you like to say it. How do you react to those kinds of assertions?"
},
{
"end_time": 4569.718,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4540.435,
"text": " Well, two things for me, and I think Jim will have some really great insight on this as usual. But the two things for me are, number one, there has been that stuff. It has been picked up. That was one of Chris Mellon's big pushes, is that all of these satellites that are doing thermal imaging, watching animal migrations, weather satellites, spy satellites, they collect data all day long. And he's like, we need to scan that data and we need to find out if this weather satellite picked up"
},
{
"end_time": 4595.265,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4569.718,
"text": " There's a little Roman right there. You need to send this weather satellite picked up something flying through, but these satellites aren't really geared to pick up things moving 20,000 miles an hour and doing a 90 degree turn, but it still might be in there, but we have to do some software to kind of pull it out. But then we have the videos that come out. There's so many more videos that we know that are probably classified, not so much because of what's on it, but maybe where they filmed it or how good the resolution is or whatever those things are."
},
{
"end_time": 4624.582,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 4595.265,
"text": " But those things do exist. We have filmed these things, the military has them, the government has them on the best systems that have ever been created in the history of man. On the spy one radar, the USS Princeton and these top gun pilots and top gun radar controllers capturing this stuff with their eyeballs, with the sensors, with the people in the planes, all that stuff is there. The second thing is, is I don't personally, and I don't know this, but I don't think these are coming from space. I don't think they're coming from deep space. So if we're looking"
},
{
"end_time": 4634.514,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 4624.582,
"text": " at the oceans, but we're wondering where we're going to find a planet. You know, you're not going to find one there. You know, so I think it's better that we're monitoring"
},
{
"end_time": 4655.06,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 4634.753,
"text": " the area around our planet and what things are materializing in this realm. So I think astronomers are looking far out and I'm not saying that there isn't other life out there and they're not sending drones out or maybe they've got advanced enough to travel. I'm not saying that. I just have this feeling that the universe"
},
{
"end_time": 4670.828,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 4655.06,
"text": " Is more of a duality structure where time can extend in two directions in the exact same moment in the exact same place, which means people that are very advanced or things that are very advanced can just pop over like a radio station and."
},
{
"end_time": 4694.241,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 4670.828,
"text": " That's why we're not seeing them because we're looking out at Mars or we're looking out at like Alpha Centauri and we're like, where's it coming from? It's like, no, it's in Utah. It's just in the future or something. And so I think we're going to learn and think around those lines. And I think astronomers are totally capable. I mean, these are some of the smartest people in the world. I think maybe it's like adding"
},
{
"end_time": 4718.507,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 4694.616,
"text": " to like their perv, it's like adding to what they look for and look at and where they look would be kind of cool, you know, getting you guys to look at, you know, frequency and duality theory and time existing at one moment in the same location. And, you know, so it's not just looking at stars, it's kind of react to the new project Galileo, Professor Gavi Loeb, who was the chairman of the Harvard astronomy"
},
{
"end_time": 4744.616,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 4718.899,
"text": " I'll tell you."
},
{
"end_time": 4750.674,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 4745.299,
"text": " It's so all the conversations I've had with people that really do know a lot about this stuff on"
},
{
"end_time": 4780.009,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 4751.425,
"text": " You know, they can only talk about so much. So even I was on the wrong path 50 different times for like years, I really thought I understood something. And then all of a sudden, someone else says one more thing and it changes everything I thought I knew. And I was like, Oh my God, I got it so wrong. And then, you know, it's, it's difficult to comprehend, especially for a guy like me. I'm not like you. I don't, I didn't go to college. I didn't study science. I don't have that ability, but I'm a pretty clever guy and I could find patterns pretty easily."
},
{
"end_time": 4797.108,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 4780.265,
"text": " And I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly open to learning. But I just think that these scientists... I'll give you an example. I won't go into too much detail because I don't feel comfortable doing it. But there was a very important person that I met early on, long before I knew Jim."
},
{
"end_time": 4815.93,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 4797.466,
"text": " And I remember that somebody that was a very high ranking person at a very important government place said, you should meet this person. He's a very interesting person, very high ranking person. And I said, because I pitched this idea of what to the stars could be. And so this person comes to San Diego, they put me on the phone with this other person."
},
{
"end_time": 4842.705,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 4815.93,
"text": " And I said, Hey, this is Tom, and he's got some great ideas about how to talk to the youth about, you know, life in the universe and so on. This person on the phone was like, well, there's no evidence for that. I don't believe in any of that. It's just not my thing. But why don't you fly up tomorrow? Come meet me, you know, and I was like to talk about what something that doesn't exist. So I remember this person was putting together that you talked about a Rogan was no, no, this is some no, this is something different."
},
{
"end_time": 4864.94,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 4843.183,
"text": " But it led to that. And so this person was just like, it was a two hour conversation. None of it's real, none of it exists. But I want to hear what your plan is, or what you're trying to achieve, you know. And I remember this person was setting up a venture to look for life in the universe somewhere with some really cool technology and a lot of money. I don't want to say too much."
},
{
"end_time": 4879.718,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 4865.316,
"text": " And I was like, you know, sir, you're, you're looking for life out there, you are raising all this money and you're doing this great thing for humanity. And I believe it's out there. I'm all but I, I want to talk about the ones that are here."
},
{
"end_time": 4901.015,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 4879.974,
"text": " I think young people need to know about the ones that are here. And I remember banging on the table, you know, because I knew that the meeting was kind of bearing off for two hours, like, you know, it was going to get shut down, I was going to get anywhere. So I got really full of passion. And I was like, you want to look out there? Great. I need your help, because I want to discuss what's here, the ones here, you know, and then he took a deep breath."
},
{
"end_time": 4919.104,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 4901.476,
"text": " And then he just looked at me and then he and then he said he goes, let's introduce him to so and so. And then the other guy next and turns his head and he goes, Are you sure he goes yeah I'm sure. And that's how it led to that other meeting and the next thing you know you got these people gathering around that want to talk about what's here but they're very limited on what they can say so I have to like."
},
{
"end_time": 4932.978,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 4919.548,
"text": " Kind of put things together and then fortunately I meet Jim and Jim teaches me a lot about how to absorb information and how to digest it and how to hold on to it even if it doesn't because it doesn't have enough about it that means anything yet, but it might be important later."
},
{
"end_time": 4961.015,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 4933.268,
"text": " I'm not him, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can from him. And so the whole thing is just wild. Like it's very real and there's a difference between what's out there and what's here. And it might be, there might be a lot more than that too. The universe is big, you know, there could be infinite possibility out there. Yeah. Yeah. I just add a quick thing about science and scientists in general regarding this UAP phenomenon."
},
{
"end_time": 4991.596,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 4961.834,
"text": " I feel so sorry for them in many respects. I am a huge fan of the Galileo project. I just think it's wonderful. And I think what he's going to be doing and what you guys are all going to be doing with that is really necessary. I just applaud how courageous you guys are going out and doing that. And Dr. Loeb is doing that. I will say I haven't met very many scientists that are doing something like this, or whether they're skeptics or what have you, that have a really"
},
{
"end_time": 5014.292,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 4992.159,
"text": " sound understanding of the literature and the research that has been done over the last 70 years on this topic. I think if they did, they'd have a better appreciation for what they're going against or what they're trying to figure out. Personally, based on my knowledge and based on what I know, I don't think we're ever going to come to, at least not in my lifetime, I'm an older guy now, but"
},
{
"end_time": 5027.432,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5014.787,
"text": " In my lifetime, we're ever going to come to any kind of conclusion about what this phenomenon actually is. I think it encompasses a lot more than UAPs. I think there's a huge trickster element to it."
},
{
"end_time": 5054.48,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5028.404,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
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"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level."
},
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"text": " Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklynin. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com"
},
{
"end_time": 5132.022,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5103.968,
"text": " I could go on, but I'll just say that I appreciate the fact that science is doing this. I think eventually science is going to have to figure out another way to approach this."
},
{
"end_time": 5159.309,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5132.688,
"text": " Because as Tom keeps mentioning consciousness and what have you, I spoke to a scientist once and who was very involved in this and I asked him, I said, where do you think's behind all this, this phenomenon? And he said, it's somewhere in between consciousness and a nexus of consciousness and quantum theory, quantum mechanics. But when you're talking about quantum mechanics and when I ask you about superpositioning or ask you about quantum entanglement or the particle wave theory and what have you,"
},
{
"end_time": 5184.787,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5159.616,
"text": " You can't explain it. Scientists can't really explain it, but it's in a box. It's in the quantum theory box, and it's a place they can put it, and there's something there. But when you talk about UAPs, there is no ontology. There's no lexicon that you can actually use to even begin the discussion. We can't even figure out what questions to ask about this, because we don't know what it is. There's no there there, as I said before."
},
{
"end_time": 5209.667,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5185.299,
"text": " And that's what makes this extremely difficult. And I think that's why scientists, many scientists are extremely frustrated over this. The evidence, there is some hard evidence that I feel this hard evidence science, some scientists don't believe that's true. But a lot of the, a lot of what we have is anecdotal and they might call soft evidence, but nevertheless, it's there. As I said before, these tic tacs that were flying over the Nimitz, they're real."
},
{
"end_time": 5235.964,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5209.872,
"text": " they were absolutely 100% real. And please don't tell me there was sensor anomalies. I know they weren't sensor anomalies. They were absolutely real. So what do you do with that? And so if you're a scientist, you say, well, show me, you know, I got to see them again. I got to take, this is what I love about the Galileo project. I want to take a good picture. That is the perfect thing to say, because that's exactly what we need. We need a good picture first."
},
{
"end_time": 5261.749,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5236.561,
"text": " And there are some out there, by the way, but I don't know if we'll ever see. Are they classified? The great pictures. I think Lou's even mentioned this a couple of times that some of the evidence that we do have is rather compelling. But there is a problem with releasing them regarding some of the sensor systems that we have and you can't give away, you know, what we're able to do."
},
{
"end_time": 5290.23,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5261.834,
"text": " I have a quick question about consciousness. At the same time, there's also Steve Greer who said that there's a project called CE5 or at least a technique of CE5 of connecting yourself with an alien via some meditative technique or perhaps even psychedelic, some trance state, some abnormal consciousness state, altered state. What do you make of this?"
},
{
"end_time": 5318.558,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5291.698,
"text": " Well, let me say one thing about Stephen Greer. I've never met the man. I do take my hat off to him. He's done some incredible work early on. He's not a big fan of our organization at all, and I'm not quite sure why, but he isn't. But as far as what he's doing with CE5 and what have you, I don't have any comment on that. I don't go that far. I mean, it's"
},
{
"end_time": 5340.606,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5319.002,
"text": " Yeah, my feeling is that, you know, again, if you look at just what we've done as human beings over the past hundred years, where it's like we first, you know, we invent the telephone and then radio waves and communicating over different frequencies. And then we're able to tap phones and we're able to tap, you know, hack into radio, whatever, like you just look at the progression that we're doing."
},
{
"end_time": 5358.575,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5340.981,
"text": " I would bet money that down the line when we're technologically advanced, we're going to not be hacking radio waves, we're going to be hacking minds, we're going to be listening in to what people are thinking. And what is the loudest that someone can be when they're thinking? I would imagine it's a group of people that are"
},
{
"end_time": 5379.087,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5359.002,
"text": " that are meditating together, they're all thinking the same thing at the same moment, you know, so it's almost like if you're searching around for a light in the dark, that's a brighter light. So part of me really does subscribe to, you know, consciousness and meditation and the focusing of one's mind is being something that"
},
{
"end_time": 5404.65,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5379.582,
"text": " that something advanced could easily get into. I mean, when you look at the evidence or you look at the data of the people involved, it's, you know, and you can be paralyzed or you hear voices in your head or, you know, there's, it's always something to do with, you know, kind of hacking the system to a degree. So I think that that's all plays a big part of it. And, and I definitely believe it, you know, I just think that it needs to be studied scientifically."
},
{
"end_time": 5419.753,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5405.213,
"text": " Yeah, I agree. I don't discount what Stephen Greer is saying. It could possibly be true. I just don't know enough about it. But I applaud that he's actually working on it."
},
{
"end_time": 5438.148,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5420.623,
"text": " Now, when you we do have some questions in the audience, you want to know how they can be involved. What can they do? Obviously, Project Galileo is privately funded. It's at Harvard. What about your endeavors, guys? What would you like to turn to people to attention to get involved if they're interested in joining this mission?"
},
{
"end_time": 5450.93,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5438.422,
"text": " Well, we created a public company, a public benefit company, a company. So our goal was like, if we're going to do this, we can't do this. We're just a few people own it. You know, so we have about four, yeah, somewhere between 3,500, 4,000 investors."
},
{
"end_time": 5481.067,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5451.425,
"text": " where we let people come and be a part of this and help grow the company so we can do exactly this. We can tell the stories, we can do the research, we can help push the government, we can kind of become a credible place to discuss this stuff. So that's one avenue. Support TTSA, you know, be an owner of it with us and help us get the job done. Look what we've done so far on very little. The second thing is I say this, this is just me talking, this isn't a to the stars position or anything. Don't let the government"
},
{
"end_time": 5508.234,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5481.647,
"text": " sit quietly and just go off and they say one thing and then we just trust it, it's fine. These are human beings that work there, that get distracted, that get overburdened with other jobs they got to do, that really there's not much in it for these guys, you know, that are working some of these difficult issues to come out and just start talking about it and have everyone start calling their office and like bugging them and now they can't get their job done and now they got to go brief a bunch of senators that just want to be on TV and get more votes."
},
{
"end_time": 5512.056,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 5508.234,
"text": " But I think that people need to not"
},
{
"end_time": 5542.193,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 5512.517,
"text": " Let them live this down. You know, you got to bring this up when they're interviewing the president. You got to bring this up when they're when the congressmen are having debates, the senators are having debates to be reelected. You got to bring this up in the press environment. You know, when the when the PR person is talking for the DOD or talking for the CIA or talking for any place that might have stakes in this. But when we're quiet and complacent and just read a report that it's all real, but we don't really like follow up blows my mind."
},
{
"end_time": 5563.183,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 5542.619,
"text": " I mean, it blows my mind that people are not beating down the door right now going, wait, what? This is real? How much do you really know that you're not telling us? Well, in my own personal opinion, I think they know a hell of a lot more than we know. And I think they have a hell of a good reason probably for not talking about all of it. I because in my experience,"
},
{
"end_time": 5587.568,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 5563.712,
"text": " With all these government guys, they're all really good people and they're smart and they're ethical. They're humans and make mistakes and new laws get created for more oversight and so on. So we don't have a repeat of the MK Ultra stuff or whatever. But I've met a lot of these people and a lot of them are just bound by the by the ethics or the rules of how it works. It's like they create a black program."
},
{
"end_time": 5611.288,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 5587.568,
"text": " But there's no part of a classified program that I know of that's ever been spoken of me where it's kind of like, okay, now comes the part where we tell everybody about it. It just doesn't exist. So then how do you tell everybody about it? I mean, Jim can talk about it better than I can. But the only way is pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure, pressure. And then finally, they have to act for the will of the people. And so that's what you need to do. Don't let it go quietly."
},
{
"end_time": 5639.292,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 5611.869,
"text": " No, no, I couldn't agree with Tom anymore. I mean, he's absolutely right in what he just said. And, you know, this is one of the reasons we we formed TTSA. I remember I remember talking with Lou when he was on the task force and being in the Pentagon and talking to some of the officers there. They were very concerned about this phenomenon. They, you know, they knew it was real. They just didn't know what to do about it. And I kept telling them, you know, look, you know, you got to go you got to go public with this. And if you can't go public,"
},
{
"end_time": 5664.718,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 5639.804,
"text": " You know, I just formed a company with Tom DeLong and I said, we're going to take this private, we're going to go to the private sector because the government does not own this data. The government doesn't own UAPs or the study of UAPs or the research. It belongs to everybody. It doesn't just appear to carrier strike groups. It appears everywhere to all people around the world. It's appearing in Argentina and China, you know, and Bangladesh. So"
},
{
"end_time": 5690.333,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 5665.35,
"text": " We really, as human beings, have to get together and that's when we said we're taking this private and we won't discuss classified information, but we are going private. The public has to be more informed about this and let them know that their consensus reality, the reality we all agree on, isn't quite right. There's something else going on and we really truly have to figure that out because that's what we do as human beings."
},
{
"end_time": 5714.462,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 5691.476,
"text": " Oh, guys, thank you. I let it go with that. And I really do have to leave and I really enjoying this very, very much. Yeah, I'm enjoying it as well. Yeah, let's do a part two, Jim. Let's do it again. I'd be more than happy to do it again with you guys. Yeah, it would be fun and doing doing doing another one. But digging into not so much, you know, is it real and what the government's doing or not, but really just like dig into"
},
{
"end_time": 5724.582,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 5714.872,
"text": " That's right. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 5750.026,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 5724.94,
"text": " Yeah, the physics implicate young people interested in thinking big. Look, sometimes it borders on sci-fi. Sometimes it has a stigma. But nevertheless, if we can inspire just one mind, as they say, to take physics seriously, to learn, and with the artist eye of Tom, with the patriotic eye of Jim, with the inquisitive nature of Kurt, and maybe with the scientist perspective that I'm trying to bring, I think we're doing a good service. So I'd love to do that again, guys."
},
{
"end_time": 5775.077,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 5750.026,
"text": " Tom, thank you so much for your dinner. I love your work. Thank you, big fan. Maybe Kurt, next time you'll take out your guitar and you'll teach him chords or something, man. That'll be good. I only know three chords. I'm in a punk band. I mean, we don't know any more than three. So that's what we do. Oh, we love you, man. And Kurt, thank you so much, brother. And Jim, it's honor and a pleasure. Thank you for your service to the country. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Bye guys. Bye guys. Bye, Kurt. Bye bye."
},
{
"end_time": 5795.538,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 5776.391,
"text": " The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash C-U-R-T-J-A-I-M-U-N-G-A-L. That is Kurt Jaimungal. It's support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you."
}
]
}No transcript available.