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Inside a Homicide Investigation: The First 48’s Chris Anderson on Catching Killers

February 9, 2025 • 1:17:14 • undefined

Channel: Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast

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[0:59] Hi, I'm Jean Chatsky. You may know me as the host of the Her Money podcast or the financial editor of NBC's Today Show for 25 years.

[1:13] It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home.

[1:43] A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[2:16] But during that time I kind of left my wife and all my kids and they you know I wasn't around like I should have been and get out to the crime scene and I'm looking at this vehicle this vehicle this is a say like a 2004-2005 BMW it's lodged up on the side of a wall and the tires are still engaged because the victim she's been shot inside of her vehicle and she tried to drive away from her attacker

[2:43] and he shot one time through the car strikes her in the back of her head and she dives instantly so she's the car ended up wrecking and it's lodged on the side of a wall and I'm not spending enough time with my kids and those were the most important things in my life get out to the crime scene and I'm taking down my notes and I'm looking in the car at the victim now they've got everything set up to where I can get close enough to and take down my notes before they remove the body from the car

[3:13] I am going to be interviewing former homicide detective Chris Anderson and we're going to talk about some cases and his book and some

[3:41] What he's been doing and so check out the podcast. I appreciate you coming on. Hey, no problem. I appreciate you for having me so You were you were on Discovery channels What was the name of the show the name of the show was reasonable doubt reasonable doubt I

[4:02] that was for five seasons. Yeah, man. Yeah. So yeah, discovery. Yeah, going on to reasonable doubt was a huge change in my career. You know, I'm used to, you know, investigating homicide cases and working cold cases and things of that nature. But getting the opportunity to go from, you know, as a homicide investigator in the NBA featured on First 48, and then going into my own show reasonable doubt and running it for five years, man, that was

[4:31] So I'm wondering when you go in and speak with

[4:55] So you go to it, reinvestigate a case and you go and do the homicide detectives that had worked the case. Like are they, are they okay with that? Are they irritated? Like they feel like, Hey, this guy's, you know, looking over my shoulder or double checking my work or, or are they, they open to it? Like, man, we want the help. So yeah. So some of the cases, uh, I've looked into, they, they were at the gamut of everything. They just say, I brought into some cases where some guys have, uh,

[5:25] you know, been very open to having somebody look at another case. I had some guys that felt like I was looking over their shoulders and they had to critique their work and things of that nature. And I've had some that just flat out said, no, you're not gonna tell me.

[5:43] You don't want people critiquing your work. You always want to maintain. One of the worst things that could happen to a police officer and even a homicide investigator especially is to have someone come in and say that someone you were responsible for convicting, your investigation was responsible for convicting.

[6:14] the worst thing to say was that guy was wrongfully convicted so I can understand some of these guys and I won't mean to commit a question but on the other hand I look at it like this

[6:22] Yeah, I

[6:50] So I've, you know, I've spoken with a lot of, of law enforcement and I always, it's funny, like with my opinion of homicide detectives are that like they're very, they tend to be very focused on, on not convicting them, but, but solving that crime. Like, cause you know, there's no, there's no worse crime than murder, obviously. And it,

[7:18] it's funny you tend to get you know those are the guys that raise up through the ranks you know what I mean like they have a goal that's what they want to do they want to they want to get to become a homicide detective usually like the best the best guys

[7:35] and

[7:56] I want to solve this crime, and I could care less about anything that I have to do to get to that point, or who I have to deal with and talk to, because those other crimes don't mean anything, which I like about that. What I don't like is what you're saying. That would upset me. It's like, okay, I get you feel like the guy committed the crime.

[8:16] But do you really know it? Right. And yeah, so you're absolutely right. I mean, homicide investigators are extremely driven individuals. You have to be driven. You have to be extremely focused because when you're not focused and when you're not driven, when you get tired, you got to go home. You know, if you're not driven, when you if you're not focused, when you're looking at those cases and walking through the crime scenes and having to process

[8:45] the millions of bits of information that are coming to you without warning if you're not focused you'll miss something that's extremely important so yeah most homicide investigators that I've known that I've met in my career they were extremely focused they were extremely driven these were the guys that were the cream of the crop in their police departments and they ascended to the heights of the homicide investigation

[9:14] So, when did you, where were you raised?

[9:39] So I was raised in my city that I work in Birmingham, Alabama. I grew up in Birmingham. I grew up in one of the roughest parts of Birmingham I don't know if you're a fan of the show First 48 Which I was I was one of the investigators that was featured on First 48 also and a lot of the a lot of the cases that we feel

[10:01] on 1st 48 what cases that happened in my neighborhood where I grew up so yeah I came up through Birmingham I'm a second generation police officer my mom was a cop here in Birmingham and she was brought into the department during a time where you know there weren't a lot of females in police work and not a lot of black females in police work so

[10:25] She's always been a trailblazer and a hero to me. So when she went into police work, I was probably about four or five years old. And, uh, you know, when I got of age, I think I was 21 when I, when I started with the department, you know, I didn't want to work anywhere else, but the Miami police department, because that's where I grew up. That's why I wanted to make, you know, the most, uh, impact. Was your father around? What? Yeah.

[10:51] Yeah, so my father was around. My father was the victim of an assault, a serious assault when I was... Wow, it was probably a year or two after my mom became a police officer and he was seriously injured and handicapped for the rest of his life. He's still alive today but he was handicapped.

[11:12] During that time and he never could really hold down a job or anything like that So my mom while she raised three boys, she also had to take care of a husband, you know She was the breadwinner of our family after my father was almost murdered So, I mean what it what are your you have what two brothers have two brothers I have an older brother. I'm the middle child of us three I was probably

[11:40] Anyone that knows me and my family, I was the one that was least likely to anyone could ever see me being a law enforcement officer. I was that one that didn't make the great grades. I was the one that always stayed in trouble. If there was anyone of my mother's children that may have ended up in prison, it would have been

[12:04] How long were you on the force before you became a homicide?

[12:33] Absolutely. So going into law enforcement and having a mother like mine who is very well known, very well respected within the department, I wanted to carve my own way and not walk

[12:54] I'm gonna have to walk in her footsteps but I wanted to carve my own way and one thing that she never wanted to be was an investigator you know she always loved school resources she always loved being a supervisor and things of that nature so she was great at everything she did so me I wanted a different path so I went into law enforcement at 21 and I did about five years in control

[13:24] my time at patrol was probably some of the greatest times that I've had in police work but after about five years in patrol I think the year I hired on in 1995 there was four years I hired on in 1995 in 1999 I was promoted to which I did a little stint in narcotics, narcotics really wasn't for me but I ended up getting promoted into our burglary unit and from there in 1990

[13:54] 1999 I want to say it was and from 1999 all the way up to about 2000 and 2011 or 2012 I was in investigations you know I moved around to several different units but I went to homicide in 2005 and stayed there until I was promoted to sergeant in 2011 I spent the most time at homicide. Were you gunning for homicide like was that was like

[14:23] Absolutely. The way that we run out, we run out of department different than a lot of police, some of the police departments, I won't say a lot, but some of the police departments, you know, we have investigators that, we have burglary investigators, then we have robbery investigators, and then we have homicide. You know, we have investigators that specialize in certain types of crime.

[14:50] so whereas most you know police departments don't work like that if you work burglaries if you're a detective you work all of them burglaries robberies and homicides we didn't work like that so I knew pretty early in my career that homicide was where I wanted to be it was the tip of the spear as far as investigators they were always the sharpest they were always the most cunning they were always the guys that I came up under

[15:19] they were the guys that you wanted to be in police work so I always knew I wanted to go to homicide but I was young and I went into investigations at I mean I was probably in my early 20s and I think I got promoted to homicide right at about 20 you know 28 29 years old I want to say can't remember exactly but yes I was pretty young

[15:44] and police work and you know seeing all of that in a young husband a young father you know I got kids you know I got babies now you know and as a homicide investigator you spend a lot of time and work a lot of time at work missing out on football games and having to leave out of your daughter's ballet practice or their recitals you know because you're getting that call but I was driven man and I wanted this is something that I wanted to do

[16:14] so from the time that I was in homicide and it happened a lot when I was in robbery and burglary too but when I was in homicide my wife was almost a single wife she had to raise our kids she had to go and do all of it handle the house and everything so yeah but it was a great time in my career I wouldn't there are certain parts of it I wish I could do over again

[16:42] But I wouldn't trade it for the world. That experience was amazing for me. Do you have, are there any cases that stand out that? I got plenty of them. I got plenty of cases that stand out to me. I've worked, I've worked almost nothing that you could show me in a crime scene would surprise me.

[17:10] So I've worked everything from child murders, children being, you know. It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home. A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead. And he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor the fourth. And we talked to him.

[17:37] Slaying and then all the way up to, you know, elderly people being being, you know, murdered and thrown out on the side of the road. So I've got plenty of cases that that really

[18:06] Touch that affected me in different ways And that's one thing that I love about homicide. No two days are the same Never it's never the same and that's that's what some of the things that where a lot of investigators get burned out Because you know, it's just the monotony of everything that's happening But you can never say that we are homicide investigator, you know, no two days are the same so I had a case that I actually wrote about in my book called the case and

[18:35] And I talked a little bit about how I moved through our police department. I talked about the impact that my mother had on me as an investigator, as a young police officer.

[18:50] And I talk about this one particular case that I investigated here in Birmingham. And it's a true story. I mean, you know, some of I changed a lot of the names and things of that nature in the case. But, you know, it was a real case that actually happened here in Birmingham. It was the investigation. What happened during the investigation, the drive, you know, it almost

[19:19] Working that case almost cost me, you know, while I got it solved, got the people arrested, got justice for my victim, I almost lost everything that was important to me. That's my wife, my kids, my family. You know, but it was just, it was one of those things that just happened, man. And it helped me after working that particular case, it helped me become a better father, a better husband, and a better detective also. What was the case? What helped?

[19:49] During that time, my wife and I were on a rough patch. I was kind of new at homicide. I had been at homicide for maybe a year or so and I'm still trying to make my way. I'm trying to gather all this information and learn how to do this job as well as I could and I had gotten a pretty good go at it.

[20:16] And but during that time I kind of left my wife and all my kids and they you know I Wouldn't wonder around like I should have been and she had gotten fed up And plus, you know, I was doing all kinds of other stuff, you know, I wasn't the most uh, you know Faithful guy has put it like that. Right? So, you know, it happens like that so

[20:39] We get out and my wife, I come into the house and she's already tired because I told her I was coming home and ended up not getting home for hours. My kids were waiting up for me. She had made dinner for me. I'm like, okay, I'm sick of it right now. So I go upstairs and I talk to my kids for a little while. I eat my food and me and her are about to get into an argument and I get a call. Now, I'll tell you what really

[21:09] help me to become really why this case was so touching to me. So I get a call that a young lady has been murdered and they asked me to come out to the crime scene which I'm going to go anyway because I'm the lead investigator that night.

[21:27] Get out to the crime scene and I'm looking at this vehicle this this vehicle this is a say like a 2004 2005 BMW it's lodged up on the side of a wall and the tires are still engaged because the victim She's been shot inside of her vehicle and she tried to drive away from her attacker and

[21:48] excuse me excuse me

[22:15] At any rate, I get out to the crime scene and the whole wild day I'm thinking to myself, you know, I need to try to straighten this stuff out with my wife because I'm not, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do as a father. I know that I'm not being a husband. I should be. So I get out to the crime scene and I'm not spending enough time with my kids and those were the most important things in my life. Get out to the crime scene and I'm taking down my notes and

[22:41] I'm looking in the car at the victim now they've got everything set up to where I can get close enough to it and take down my notes before they remove the body from the car and I'm writing down my notes and the guy I asked the guy I said what's her name and he says Kayla and I stopped for a second you know her name is what Kayla my daughter's name is Kayla this young lady is not too much older than my daughter so

[23:08] From that point, you know, I'm already struggling because I hadn't spent any time with my kids. You know, I'm already going through this mental thing that we go through as homicide investigators. You know, and from that point on, everything that I saw, everything that I did, every picture that I looked at, I didn't see my victim's face. I saw my own child's face.

[23:32] and i thought about everything that was going that was happening about you know how i wasn't spending any time with her and i thought about my victim's family you know how they let that daughter go out of the house just for a few minutes you know a couple hours and now she'll never be seen again i didn't want to be like that so uh yeah yeah i started working this case and and it was like investigating my own my own child's murder murder

[24:00] You know, I picked up a really good relationship with my victim's mom, which I talked to her and her brother. And I don't talk to her father as much, but I talked to, you know, my victim's mom and brother. We're friends today and they know my kids. Her family and I, we just kind of connected, you know, and I think that connection was brought about by,

[24:28] One of the most traumatic events that any person could experience and that's murder. I'm just giving you a preface of the case. I don't want to hear everything that happened. Working that case helped me to realize that every day is special. Every day you need to do something to make tomorrow better.

[24:52] i started after i finished the case up and you know if you if you're interested in seeing the book or reading the book it's on amazon now it's been doing book sales have been doing pretty well but i you know i always can use another person buy one more book so uh yeah uh

[25:10] I take you through all the emotions that I went through and I take you through everything that was happening with me and my wife and my kids during that time you know the nights that I left and slept in my office and you know the nights of being out on the streets or trying to you know be at home and spend time with my kids but mentally I'm not there you know I'm physically there mentally I'm still at work trying to find these fuckers that killed my child you know so

[25:41] Yeah, there's a lot of PTSD that happens with law enforcement that a lot of people don't know about, a lot of people don't talk about. And it goes, some of it comes about by some of the things that you see here and do on a daily basis. And I think that's what happened with me during that time. Do you know how many cases you work? Yes, yes.

[26:10] So I've investigated, I think last count where I lead, I've led in over a hundred cases. The last count of cases that I've, you know, I've investigated murder cases that I've investigated were over 300. And may not sound like a lot, but that's a lot. Yeah, that's got to translate a lot. I was going to say, like, what are our,

[26:40] What are the more complicated cases? To me, if someone really methodically thought out the crime, that's a difficult case.

[27:01] If you're seeing and hearing this right now, that means you're watching Matt Cox on Inside True Crime.

[27:22] At the

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[28:05] So here's the thing when you think about homicide investigations. The one thing that's helped me out the most is almost three quarters of the murders that happen in the US, they happen, they are caused by someone that has a relationship with the victim.

[28:33] you know that there's some sort of relationship some sort of connection with the victim most murders are not random acts of violence the majority of them are not so when you deal with homicides if you go into it with that mindset you can usually maneuver through and you know how to take your investigation it all starts with the background of the victim it's called victimology

[29:01] and i don't think enough schools teach enough about victimology and learning victimology because especially when it comes to homicide investigations because like i just said three quarters of every case that you'll work in this country are caused by are committed by someone that's connected to your victim

[29:19] so yeah they're all complex in that sense because you have to unravel each piece it's like an onion you have to peel back so many layers until you get to the root cause of what happened and usually 9 times out of 10 it's usually someone that's connected to a victim

[29:39] Yeah, but they all have a level of complexity that you can only understand if you've been through it or conducted an homicide investigation. But do you have any one in particular that's interesting, that was complicated, that you eventually put it together for some, you know what I mean? Yeah, so the ones that are usually the most complex

[30:09] are your serial cases uh and I've only had one of those because those are not usually your serial cases are not you know they're not they are those random acts of violence right person this person sees someone that they think would make would become a they could be an easy target they do whatever you know and they could be

[30:35] so those are the ones that you have to that are extremely hard to put together because it usually takes a lot of working moving parts and I had one like that and this one wasn't yeah this one was it was kind of random but there was a connection between the victim and the suspect so I had this young girl she was 17 years old at the time that she was murdered

[31:05] So here's the scenario. Her and her mom have been on some really bad terms and when she gets out of school she was responsible for going to her mom's job, sitting down with her for about two or three hours and then riding home with her mom from work because her mom just didn't trust her in the house by herself. She was a little bit mischievous.

[31:28] On this particular day, this girl had been on punishment for, on this punishment that her mom had, you know, enforced on her. She had to get off the bus and come and sit up there with her at work until her mom got off and then her mom would take her home. But on this day, the mom said, allows her to go home, you know, go to the house a little bit earlier because she was going, her mom had to work some overtime and this young lady had to do some homework. So she allowed her to go home.

[31:57] mom comes home about four hours later, finds her daughter she's been murdered she had been strangled to death and then the suspect cut her throat and he cut her throat after she was murdered her body was positioned and posed in a way that you know it wouldn't have happened if you know it wasn't just random you could tell that the body had been posed

[32:27] so the way that she was posed it led me to believe that you know it was somebody that was kind of close to her she had a boyfriend who I had some witnesses who said that you know they had seen the guy lurking around the house earlier that day and

[32:49] so I'm thinking okay this is my guy I need to go pick him up you know he's where I need to start pick the guy up bring him in for questioning he doesn't confess like that admit to anything but I get the witnesses and who says that okay they can identify him as the person that was working around the house that day but nothing

[33:12] that was it you know he was very convincing in the interview room and I didn't feel right about putting him in jail at the moment the mom's pissed off she was totally pissed off with I didn't feel right about putting them in jail so I did and I didn't have enough probable cause to charge him with anything but you know I said just give me time I'm gonna work this case and I'll find out who's responsible if it's him and he's going to jail if it's not him let me find out who's responsible

[33:43] I worked that case for three years, three years. I mean and doing something on it at least on a daily basis or going back out to the crime scene you know talking to people that knew the girl and this is during a time where DNA evidence wasn't as prevalent as it is today like you can do DNA test and get it back within a couple

[34:07] you know back then it took months it took years sometimes and you couldn't even get it unless you had you know a suspect so at any rate during those three years a lot of things happened and you know that that's when DNA and the collection of it and processing of it went into overdrive so what here at Alabama which they've done now nationwide they started taking samples DNA samples from everyone that was in prison

[34:37] Yeah. So when I first started this case, you know, we never, we didn't, they didn't do that, but I had DNA that was connected to this victim. So at any rate, three years later, I get a DNA hit from this guy, completely random guy to mom. Nobody knew that the victim and this guy had been seeing each other and talking on the phone, anything like that. She had, and actually they had just met earlier that day.

[35:08] She ended up bringing him back to the house and he ended up being the one responsible for the murder. He was in prison for murdering another young woman that happened in another municipality just a few miles away from where my department was.

[35:27] You know, I went over and talked to him. He wouldn't talk to me, but I had the DNA evidence, you know, against him. He had gotten life in prison for the for the other young girls murder because he did her. Although the actuality here, he got convicted before I even knew he was responsible for my murder. He had been convicted of two murders. So that's why it became a serial case. He had killed three young ladies over the span of about

[35:59] I want to say it was over about the span of a year and the only thing that connected him in my case was the DNA evidence and he had no reason to be at the house it was in a vagina and yeah you know he was responsible for that murder those are some of the cases that you know it was completely random there was nothing that suggested this girl and this guy had a connection

[36:26] and that makes it extremely hard when you're investigating homicide cases. It's just those random acts of violence. Yeah, I was going to say the the serial killers, you know, that that is the whole thing that there's some long distance truck driver. They swing into it and they'll go after somebody who's vulnerable anyway, a prostitute or somebody get in the car. Nobody sees him get in the car. They find the body like how the how are you going to how are you going to track this back to one of the

[36:56] 10,000 trucks stopped. That boy drove through that day, 10,000 trucks that drove through that day. Yes, that's exactly right. Without something like DNA, that's why they get away with so many. I always loved the books. Have you ever read James Patterson where he's got Detective Cross in the house?

[37:23] So yeah, I forget the name of his like nemesis, but they always make him seem so, you know, of course he's, he's a sadist, but you know, that always make him seem so brilliant and so, and he thought everything through. And the truth is most of these guys, they're just, they're, you know, not, not that they're stupid, but they're, they're so

[37:47] over are so driven by just instinct and they make huge mistakes but they get away with it.

[38:03] Like you said, there's typically no connection between them and the victim. So even though they made all these major mistakes,

[38:31] the truth is, is it's just difficult to pin them down and eventually it's got to take something like DNA and they're already got five convictions and they go ahead and admit to another 10 because they know they're about to be put into the electric chair or something. Right, right, right. I mean, you know, look, it's complex within itself, but I think the technology and investigations has helped us out a lot as detectives.

[38:56] You cannot beat a good detective that's just going to get out there and beat the pavement and talk to people and be able to communicate with people. Well, I was going to say, even with cameras being everywhere, you still have to go to the bank. You still have to go to the convenience store. You still have to go and you still have to. It's still all that running around to say, well, if he went this way, he probably would have crossed this liquor store and they've got a camera. So let's go there. You still have to put all those things together. Then you have to sit there and look through

[39:26] 12 hours

[39:49] I was

[40:01] you know i i when i was locked up and i would do all this research on guys and i'd order the freedom of information act like it would be hours and hours of printing documents paperwork ordering docket sheets reordering documents and then the spike in adrenaline would be you get mail and you open up the transcript and on page seven you're like

[40:24] You're right. I would feel like I had solved the case. I'm running around going. Oh my gosh, he was driven in black worst vanities, you know, whatever it would go. It always works out like that, man. You know, we would have there will be days like we would we would be going for for two or three days. I remember I had a case on first 48 a couple of years. Well, it was probably up. Oh, man, this was in.

[40:52] 2010 I want to say it was this is all This case is on first 48 man. We had I mean during initial phases of the investigation. So what happened was we had this victim that was uh Inside of her home some guys break in on her put it out of the gravity and she killed a murderer inside her house and Then the store and got gas and poured gas all around the house set the house on fire tried to burn the body up

[41:21] understand ever and so during the initial phases of the investigation you know I thought it was just going to be a random I mean a completely you know kind of normal if that's the word that you can use a homicide cases which you normally can't use I thought it was just going to be like a routine investigation so while we're out on the scene some of the family members come to the house

[41:48] and they start asking about the woman's child said her child should have been inside of the house and we haven't seen the child and there's not a child inside of the house so now the case switches from just a routine investigation to now we are looking for an amputated child so we just we go we run for hours and hours and hours and then we ended up locating

[42:13] child you know at a at a friend of hers house so you know and and then we go back into the routine of investigating the case and maybe two or three hours after after that we get a big lead up where the victim's property may have been or whatever you know we run and and go start investigating that portion so that's that's you're you're very right that that's the

[42:42] the ups and downs of a homicide investigation. Sometimes you move a little bit slow. Sometimes you're running your tail off for hours and hours. Sometimes you're running your tail off for days. That's the way it works. You've got to be able to adjust your body and your mindset to doing it like that. Man, you had said something and shoot, now I can't remember.

[43:15] Yeah, so, I don't know what's the worst. I would at least always joke.

[43:25] about your co-defendant getting arrested. And it was always like, well, you know, you always got to say something. No, he's not going to say nothing. He'll say something. No, he won't. And I tell you, you seen the first 48, they're all talking. They're all got it. Like every one of the gangsters that walks in there ends up crying his eyes out within two hours and saying, oh, you don't understand.

[43:50] I'm glad you brought that up because that reminds me that actually it was the same case I just told you about you know when I got the guys that were responsible for the murder got him into the room there was one guy I can't remember what his name was Jesus I remember this joke but he took me out so bad he was just hard and he wanted to be so hard I was like look man you charged with capital murder you know capital murder you don't believe that yourself I'm too pretty to go to jail okay

[44:20] This is what he's saying and the camera crew they get all that they eat that shit up, you know So they get all of it on camera. They post it all on the only show it I'm like I was ticked off about that case myself because you know they what they didn't show was Two days after he's charged now and now he's over at the county jail. He's had his preliminary hearing

[44:43] and you know they're not letting him go he doesn't have a bar he got to sit there until a trial because he's charged with capital murder it's starting to sink in uh yeah yeah in a in a big way i got call after call after call from jail people saying that hey hey hey uh detective anderson he wants to talk to you and the same guy that walked out of my office saying that i'm too pretty to go to jail you don't believe that yourself you know he's all big man bold

[45:13] sat right there and told me the entire thing of how this robbery went down you know and it was too late then because his partner had already snitched on everybody and told everybody you know what had happened but yeah he told everybody he told he sat there and tried to confess to everything and then he tried to withdraw his confession later on but you know that's a whole other story but the point that I want to make is

[45:42] on First 48 and all these other shows they try to seem so hard so violent but when you get them in that room in that box that's what we call it the box when you get them in the box 90% of them break down and will tell every single thing that happened they will tell you things that you weren't even investigating you know they'll tell you about crimes that they've committed that you didn't even know that they were responsible for you know just to get out of that especially when it comes to murder if they committed robberies oh my god

[46:12] They will tell you about 30 robberies that they committed that they can get out of this homicide that they look at it. But at what have you just killed? So you can't possibly think you're going to you're going to talk your way out of it. I mean, they do that. I mean, as you said, that right now that they told me what they do, they try. I mean, you know, you think about it. So I look the way our criminal justice system is set up in most states. I know in Alabama it is.

[46:43] Alabama wants the most culpable person they want the person that who was the one that actually pulled the trigger who was the mastermind behind it so if you come in and you're the first person to say well he was the mastermind behind it and this is how we did it you know sometimes they are more lenient towards you in your sentencing phase right so you know look

[47:09] A lot of people will say don't go in and talk to the police. You have a right to not make any statements to law enforcement. That's your constitutional right set out by the government of the United States of America. But if you are involved in a case

[47:32] And sometimes, you know, you might want to, if you're not as culpable as the next person, first off, you don't want to do the crap. Just don't do the crap. Right. You know, that's the first thing. But if you're involved and you know, look, there's a lot of deals being slung around, especially if you're with someone that, that if you are a co-defendant, because co-defendants nine times out of 10, co-defendants going to talk. They're going to talk. I mean, so if you're not about that life, don't do the crap.

[48:03] You know, if you're not about that life, don't do the crowd with somebody else. You know, that's probably some of the best advice. Um, it's funny. I always, so listen, I'll tell you something you might find funny at anybody like watching this. These guys have heard me talk about this before. So, you know, I have all these, I've done all these podcasts, right? So you've got all the scammers out there think that I'm

[48:29] You know, like the scam guru or I'm going to I'm going to make them rich or, you know, they need to hook up with me or talk to me or something. And, you know, I would get these emails offering me money if I just talk to them and I'm like, you know, no, no. And I actually had a guy one time who, you know, was texting me just kind of like on a, hey, I watched your stuff. I like your stuff. You know, so we're going back and forth.

[48:55] So you, you, even though I've never met the guy, you know, you kind of, I don't want to say necessarily a friendship, but you know, you respond. Well, at some point this is we're talking about months later, six months later of talking on and off. Um, he, he flies to Tampa. He tells me, Hey, I'm actually, I have my girlfriend lives in Tampa. We're going down there. Okay. Hey, I'd love to buy you some, uh, Starbucks. Okay. I'll meet you for Starbucks. So I meet him and he tells me,

[49:25] He tells me, listen, I wanted to fly down and he had been locked up before too, in, uh, in New York. And he said, look, I was locked up in New York, you know, like I did, like, I forget three or four years. I never told on nobody. I'm like, okay. And he's like, so I wanted to come down. I wanted to let you know that, you know, I'm a solid guy. And I was like, okay. Uh, and he said, uh, but I need some help, man. Like if I could,

[49:51] you know, if you could help me out, like if I could get like half a million, I forget what the amount was. He actually had like a specific amount, like 400,000 or something. He said, you can help me get 400,000. You got me get 800. He's like, I'll split it with you. He's all you got to do is tell me how to do it. I'll go in the bank. I'll go and sign the papers. I'll do this. I'll do it. And he's going on and on and on. I'm like, right, right, right. And I said, okay. And I said, well, you understand, I said, I'm basically already. Well, I said, once you get caught,

[50:21] I'm already on the indictment. And he goes, what do you mean? I said, he goes, no, man, I would never say nothing. I would, I'll just take it. I said, no, no, no, no, no. Let me explain something. I said, let's say you never bring my name up. Once they grab you, I said, and they will grab you.

[50:37] I said, so they're going to get you. I said, you're going to tell someone who I would never tell. So I said, stop something. You're going to tell somebody you're going to brag. It's going to get, it's going to, it's going to end up connecting to you somehow. I said, you know what they're going to do? They're going to pull your phone records. They're going to see that we've spoken on the phone. They're going to see that there's tech matters. They're going to look me up. They're going to go into a grand jury. They're going to add my name to the conspiracy or to the list of computers. I said, because this is something I'm known for. I said, so.

[51:07] They're not going, I said, it doesn't, they're going to read my record. They're going to read the transcripts. They're going to see that you've come down here. They're going to see that both our phones were at their Starbucks for 45 minutes. I said that you flew back the same day. And then three months later there was, you stole a million dollars. I said, I'm already done. I said, and you know what? I said, I can't even go to trial because I can't take the stand in my own defense.

[51:33] I think because I've got a history so I have to sit there while they read off all these things and they allege that I've done something even though right now I'm telling you get on the plane and fly back to New York I think that's just the way it is I'm already done I think so I don't need to give them any additional information and I said that is even that's if you keep your mouth shut and the truth is I said once you're locked up and they say look you can get two years

[52:03] You're looking at eight now, you'll get two. We know Cox, all you have to do is say that he helped you. Yeah. And we, I literally got up and we left and he was going, no, no, I was like, stop. So you don't understand how the electronic surveillance alone connects everybody. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't think I wasn't a part of it. Right. Yeah. So, so it's, it's, you know, it's tough.

[52:31] It's very real. It's very, it's happened on multiple cases too. I mean the case that uh, the case that I wrote about in my book, you know, that were even though I only, you know, where I was able to indict the people that were responsible for her murders.

[52:47] there were a lot of other names that came up in connection to these guys that you know we found information that helped close other cases off I mean people don't understand I guess you know some people see television and they think that you know when an investigator is working a case that's the only case that they work and that's just not true I mean I found that the guys that we that I arrested for Kayla's murder they were responsible for

[53:21] 12 other carjackets because that's how she got murdered they were trying to carjack her vehicle and they were responsible for 12 other carjackets but there were other people you know sometimes it would be those three sometimes it would be two of those guys and another guy you know or sometimes it would be just one guy and two other people but a lot of those folks got charged

[53:47] Because you know when we work cases like this, we don't just work that one particular cases There are multiple other cases that we usually get closed with every homicide Yeah, I was gonna say that's it's funny That's like committing a crime and let's say I commit the purpose me and three guys we go and we commit this perfect little Conspiracy we get a couple million dollars. We're thrilled. We we walk away. That's great You walk away or I walk away, but then two years later

[54:17] One of those guys commits a crime and it's serious. And he says, you know, and the detective says, look, you can help yourself out. Like you could do five years or you could do, you could do one year, you know, you know anything. Well, you know what? Yeah. They're going to take on the deal. Right. Got to be in prison for a long period of time. So the best thing to do is don't do the crime. Don't do that. Um, yeah, it's,

[54:45] It's insanity nowadays. There's the technology, DNA, cameras, everything. It's rough.

[55:04] end all be all especially DNA you know with the way that they are collecting it now it's actually become kinda dangerous in my opinion in certain aspects that is you know because like there's no way you can go in any place and not leave something of you in that place I'm talking about like the restaurants you know your friends house there are certain investigative theories

[55:34] They're not theory, they're actually facts. Let's say that each time you enter in a room, you take something away and you leave something there. So with that premise and the way that DNA is being collected, it can become dangerous. We've seen that in some of the cases that I've investigated, especially some of the cases we looked into are reasonable doubt.

[56:02] Transference. That theory is called the Lacar Principle. That's what he speaks of, especially like skin cells from your hand and things of that nature that can be pooled. A minimal amount of skin cells can be pooled and you can get a DNA profile forever.

[56:29] and that becomes kinda dangerous because if you find someone's DNA inside of a certain area where it shouldn't have been or inside of a crime scene and it comes back to a certain person that doesn't mean that that person is responsible for that murder that means that you need to look at that person and either eliminate them or find enough evidence that convicts them and we've had cases where some of that evidence has wrongfully

[56:57] I was going to say there was the, this was recently, I want to say like maybe a week or so ago, a buddy of mine mentioned it to me that some guy had committed a murder and one of his family members had gone on AncestryDNA and uploaded their DNA and they were like, look, a relative of this guy's

[57:23] There have been a couple of cases I've researched. One of them was a serial killer

[57:44] and uh I think it was like California or something like that uh that they were able to connect his uh his DNA or a close relative of his they were able to connect his DNA to those murders you know I never got lucky enough to do nothing like that because Jesus Christ that that would that would have been easy but you know yeah it's uh

[58:10] Oh, yeah, yeah, but I'll bet that was still that was still a lot of phone calls a lot of Phil I don't paid one of ways a lot of you know somebody any Absolutely and somebody has to put that together Somebody has to be a couple of guys got to be sitting in a room with their banging their head against the wall And somebody says you know what? This was a long shot. Yeah, what if we did this?

[58:34] So all that, you know, first they run the DNA through it and then they go, ah, well, let's see if we can get a relative. Maybe he didn't do it. He's not going to upload it. Maybe a relative. Okay, run it again. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, the technology and investigations is. It's completely going way in a direction that me when I was working cases, I never would have imagined it doing something like that, but I wish I had it because there are a lot of cases that I

[59:04] Well, I left quite a few cases that I would love to see solved, finished, you know, quite a few. So what are you doing now? So right now, I serve as the Chief of Police at Talladega College. It's my alma mater. And, you know, of course, all campus police departments have their own particular police departments. And I was, you know,

[59:34] I was blessed enough to get the opportunity to go back and work at my institution after I retired from law enforcement and there was a change in the leadership so they asked me to come on and see if I could help out with the security measures there and I love policing at a college it's much different than

[59:57] you know what I'm used to so uh you know now it's more mentorship than enforcement you know uh so uh yeah and I'm an instructor that I also teach uh criminal investigations there at the college okay perfect yeah yeah it's been a great it's been a great rise since retiring um okay so any no in any any

[60:27] So there was, you were on the first 48 and then you did Reasonable Doubt, was that what you said? Yeah. Okay. My memory is horrible. So, uh, Reasonable Doubt. So, I mean, are there, are there any other projects along those lines like that you're looking at or pitching or thinking about? So, uh, I don't think that we're done with Reasonable Doubt. I think that that show was so beyond its time.

[60:54] there have been certain television shows that have tried to do something like a reasonable doubt but I just think that the way that we did it was it was great it wasn't just television it's really we were trying to right some of the wrongs that happened within our criminal justice system

[61:16] it was just way more than just television for me so I would love to see if we could to try to get you know another show kinda like Reasonable Doubt back on but you know other than that, that's all I'm doing now I make appearances, I've made several appearances on all kinds of all the news media stations

[61:41] Any new books you're working on?

[62:11] yeah I'm actually I actually am this fall I am working on a book called man you are crazy I am co-authoring that book with the guy that I think you're familiar with Evan Dawson Katie yeah that's my dude man Katie and I we actually met on the media circuit doing podcasts and

[62:34] and our publicist put us together man to talk about some of our some of the PTSD that's involved in law enforcement which is never it's never really looked into it actually it's actually shunned upon them to even mention that you may have received some PTSD from working in law enforcement but our goal is to destigmatize that

[62:58] destigmatize that that that mindset because I believe that you respond to PT people respond to PTSD in different ways and you know if you don't get help for it don't understand how to navigate through it you usually respond in a negative way so that's our goal to write the book

[63:21] help to destigmatize and talk about, you know, how can we go about destigmatizing the mindset that PTSD does exist in law enforcement and we need to do more in order to solve the problem. I interviewed both of them. Okay. We all went to dinner. He met my wife. Who else was there? Gosh, John Alight was there. So was Mike Dowd. Do you know who that is? Yeah, Mike Dowd, yeah.

[63:51] So he was there. Um, and, uh, there was a bunch of people there. So we all had dinner and then I, we did the podcast, I think the next day and, uh, listen, what a horrible podcast. Like, I mean, they're in tears. I'm in tears. Like I borderline cried most of the day anyway, just in general, you know, and, and these two guys, you know, they're, they're tearing up and I'm tearing up. It was, it was after an hour, it was,

[64:19] like I typically in the middle of the day like don't want to take it like I'm not the kind of guy that's like oh I'm gonna go take a nap like I mean I wanted to go crawl in bed and just sleep for like two hours it's emotionally draining yeah yeah yeah Katie is my guy man he's a good he's a really good guy real police I flew up to uh his city a couple months ago to do his podcast man and it was uh it was a great experience I love I love doing this studio stuff I just you know unfortunately I just

[64:49] You know, it takes a lot of time out of my schedule to fly up and do things. Yeah. He, a couple of months ago, he asked me, hey, when are you going to be in, in, in New York? I think it's in New York, right? Or New Jersey, New York, Jersey. Well, yeah. So he asked me, well, are you going to be up here anytime soon? I was like, no, no, I would like, I just go to, I just go to Jersey all the time. Yeah. Like how does that, um,

[65:18] It's funny cause I actually have another podcast I need to do. I got to see the problem isn't, I don't know. There's actually like three podcasts in that general area. The problem with that general area in my mind, you know, New York city and that general area is not that big, but the truth is, but it is big. There's like three, you know, like for one podcast, like New Jersey to, you know,

[65:47] There's like this this guy so I tracked it. I went on Google Maps. It's okay. This guy's address is this this last four hours like if this guy's an hour and 45 minutes like I've been two days driving This is if he's you know, I specifically went up there to do his podcast shoot some video and stuff like that and promos for the book, but You know how once I was done I was like dude, I'm ready to go. I got Yeah

[66:15] but it was it was good to see him get good to spend some time with him. That's my that's my dog. Did you go to have you ever been to New York City? You probably look like I only went like a year ago. I have never been. Yeah. So we actually filmed with we've done two or three episodes of reasonable down in New York City. Okay.

[66:39] Yeah, it's, listen, I went, so I don't know if you know anything about Florida. There's an area of Florida called Okeechobee, Lake Okeechobee and the big lake in Florida. And it's a little kind of a podunk kind of area. Very familiar with Okeechobee. Okay. Well, my wife, my wife grew up there. Oh, really? Okay. So my wife's almost only been out of Florida once or twice for like Pennsylvania, you know, in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania.

[67:09] And so she and I went to New York. I'd been in New York, but it was like upstate New York. So that's, that's not, you know, that's not New York City. We went to New York City. I mean, we went to near Times Square, the whole thing. Listen, driving through that city. I'm from Tampa. Tampa is about like, like Birmingham. Like it's, you know, there's like, there's like, there's like 12 buildings.

[67:32] you know

[67:47] It's hard for us as southerners to really get the full scale of how large these cities are. Let's just sit right down in the middle and you can look at it. New York is one of those cities, Los Angeles

[68:04] is ridiculously just huge places that you just you know like we from the south we got 15 buildings that's it you know they got 15 buildings like in this corner over here and there's 15 buildings over in that corner over there you know you can you can look at any any point on the spectrum you can look at five our entire city you can fit our entire cities

[68:29] We were there for three days and the third day when we woke up and looked out the window and she looked at me and she said, you know, this was great. I'm done. I'm ready to go home. It's overwhelming. Well,

[68:59] Do you have anything else you want to talk about? What I can do is we can put the description for your book in the description. We'll put the link for your book in the description. I'm assuming it's on Amazon. It is. So we'll put the Amazon link in the description and if you have any social media or anything else that you send it to me and

[69:29] My editor will also put it in there and I'll put this will put this in You know, he won't edit this out So if anybody wants to get in touch with you or buy the book check it out, you know about do you have an audible version of your book? There's a lot. No, there's not an audible. There is a Kindle version, but You gotta do an audible. Yeah So, you know, it's it's funny

[69:56] I can't read my own book. I'm just not good at it. It's horrible. I actually had a guy that contacted me and he's like, look, you really ought to put your books on Audible. And I was like, I just can't do it. I've tried it. I'm stuttering. I don't read well. I just can't do it.

[70:17] And so he said, well, I'll do it and I'll, you know, I'll, I'll do a 50, 50 royalty split. And then after like, I forget, I think it's like six years or seven years. I'm like, like after six years, then it's a hundred percent yours. And I was like, so what do I have to do is you don't have to do anything. Like you just have to tell me to tell me to do it. So he did it and put up and put it up. And I, listen, I suddenly over the course of a few months started getting a nice little chunk of money for, and did nothing. Yeah.

[70:47] I mean, actually, that's not true. The only thing I did do was my jacket cover. I had to make a square version of the jacket. Like, not like it's like a joke or nothing. So, so literally he did everything. He put it on audible. He let me I listened to the whole thing. I any corrections he made that did everything. So, you know, if you're interested, I can give you his name or, you know, if you don't want to do it yourself. Yeah, I mean, well, you know,

[71:14] I'm going to talk to my publisher. If you'll send me his information, I'll have it. I'm seriously going to do an audible version. I don't know how much time I have to do it myself, but I think I would want to do it myself. I would too if I thought I could. But you may be an excellent reader. You may be perfect. I mean, you're probably great. You probably just need a sure mic and you're good. Yeah, well, we'll see.

[71:45] Because there are some people that they're just not going to read. They'll listen to a book. They'll download it for $9, but they're just not going to and they listen to a long distance truck driving doing whatever. They're just not going to read the book. So I don't feel like you're losing anything. I don't feel like it's, oh, they would have bought a book or they'll buy this. No, no, they weren't going to buy anything.

[72:05] Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this and leave a comment in the comment section. Also, we're going to leave Detective Anderson's Amazon link in the description so you can click on it and buy a copy of his book and we'll also leave all of his social media links too if you want to follow him.

[72:33] It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him.

[72:59] Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.

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      "text": " Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy. They work with many insurance companies and most people with insurance pay zero dollars for therapy or psychiatry. You can change your provider for free. This helps you find the licensed therapist who fits your needs the best. Therapy can be costly, but part of the mission of Talkspace is to provide quality care that is accessible and affordable whether or not you are insured. Talkspace makes getting the help you need easy. Let me tell you more about why I love Talkspace."
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      "text": " But during that time I kind of left my wife and all my kids and they you know I wasn't around like I should have been and get out to the crime scene and I'm looking at this vehicle this vehicle this is a say like a 2004-2005 BMW it's lodged up on the side of a wall and the tires are still engaged because the victim she's been shot inside of her vehicle and she tried to drive away from her attacker"
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      "text": " You don't want people critiquing your work. You always want to maintain. One of the worst things that could happen to a police officer and even a homicide investigator especially is to have someone come in and say that someone you were responsible for convicting, your investigation was responsible for convicting."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 382.176,
      "index": 14,
      "start_time": 374.087,
      "text": " the worst thing to say was that guy was wrongfully convicted so I can understand some of these guys and I won't mean to commit a question but on the other hand I look at it like this"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 409.735,
      "index": 15,
      "start_time": 382.927,
      "text": " Yeah, I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 438.387,
      "index": 16,
      "start_time": 410.486,
      "text": " So I've, you know, I've spoken with a lot of, of law enforcement and I always, it's funny, like with my opinion of homicide detectives are that like they're very, they tend to be very focused on, on not convicting them, but, but solving that crime. Like, cause you know, there's no, there's no worse crime than murder, obviously. And it,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 455.06,
      "index": 17,
      "start_time": 438.712,
      "text": " it's funny you tend to get you know those are the guys that raise up through the ranks you know what I mean like they have a goal that's what they want to do they want to they want to get to become a homicide detective usually like the best the best guys"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 475.316,
      "index": 18,
      "start_time": 455.367,
      "text": " and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 495.316,
      "index": 19,
      "start_time": 476.34,
      "text": " I want to solve this crime, and I could care less about anything that I have to do to get to that point, or who I have to deal with and talk to, because those other crimes don't mean anything, which I like about that. What I don't like is what you're saying. That would upset me. It's like, okay, I get you feel like the guy committed the crime."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 525.316,
      "index": 20,
      "start_time": 496.015,
      "text": " But do you really know it? Right. And yeah, so you're absolutely right. I mean, homicide investigators are extremely driven individuals. You have to be driven. You have to be extremely focused because when you're not focused and when you're not driven, when you get tired, you got to go home. You know, if you're not driven, when you if you're not focused, when you're looking at those cases and walking through the crime scenes and having to process"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 553.643,
      "index": 21,
      "start_time": 525.674,
      "text": " the millions of bits of information that are coming to you without warning if you're not focused you'll miss something that's extremely important so yeah most homicide investigators that I've known that I've met in my career they were extremely focused they were extremely driven these were the guys that were the cream of the crop in their police departments and they ascended to the heights of the homicide investigation"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 579.292,
      "index": 22,
      "start_time": 554.411,
      "text": " So, when did you, where were you raised?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 600.572,
      "index": 23,
      "start_time": 579.872,
      "text": " So I was raised in my city that I work in Birmingham, Alabama. I grew up in Birmingham. I grew up in one of the roughest parts of Birmingham I don't know if you're a fan of the show First 48 Which I was I was one of the investigators that was featured on First 48 also and a lot of the a lot of the cases that we feel"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 625.128,
      "index": 24,
      "start_time": 601.118,
      "text": " on 1st 48 what cases that happened in my neighborhood where I grew up so yeah I came up through Birmingham I'm a second generation police officer my mom was a cop here in Birmingham and she was brought into the department during a time where you know there weren't a lot of females in police work and not a lot of black females in police work so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 651.681,
      "index": 25,
      "start_time": 625.708,
      "text": " She's always been a trailblazer and a hero to me. So when she went into police work, I was probably about four or five years old. And, uh, you know, when I got of age, I think I was 21 when I, when I started with the department, you know, I didn't want to work anywhere else, but the Miami police department, because that's where I grew up. That's why I wanted to make, you know, the most, uh, impact. Was your father around? What? Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 672.278,
      "index": 26,
      "start_time": 651.766,
      "text": " Yeah, so my father was around. My father was the victim of an assault, a serious assault when I was... Wow, it was probably a year or two after my mom became a police officer and he was seriously injured and handicapped for the rest of his life. He's still alive today but he was handicapped."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 700.503,
      "index": 27,
      "start_time": 672.671,
      "text": " During that time and he never could really hold down a job or anything like that So my mom while she raised three boys, she also had to take care of a husband, you know She was the breadwinner of our family after my father was almost murdered So, I mean what it what are your you have what two brothers have two brothers I have an older brother. I'm the middle child of us three I was probably"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 723.729,
      "index": 28,
      "start_time": 700.879,
      "text": " Anyone that knows me and my family, I was the one that was least likely to anyone could ever see me being a law enforcement officer. I was that one that didn't make the great grades. I was the one that always stayed in trouble. If there was anyone of my mother's children that may have ended up in prison, it would have been"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 753.063,
      "index": 29,
      "start_time": 724.701,
      "text": " How long were you on the force before you became a homicide?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 774.428,
      "index": 30,
      "start_time": 753.66,
      "text": " Absolutely. So going into law enforcement and having a mother like mine who is very well known, very well respected within the department, I wanted to carve my own way and not walk"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 803.814,
      "index": 31,
      "start_time": 774.65,
      "text": " I'm gonna have to walk in her footsteps but I wanted to carve my own way and one thing that she never wanted to be was an investigator you know she always loved school resources she always loved being a supervisor and things of that nature so she was great at everything she did so me I wanted a different path so I went into law enforcement at 21 and I did about five years in control"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 834.053,
      "index": 32,
      "start_time": 804.445,
      "text": " my time at patrol was probably some of the greatest times that I've had in police work but after about five years in patrol I think the year I hired on in 1995 there was four years I hired on in 1995 in 1999 I was promoted to which I did a little stint in narcotics, narcotics really wasn't for me but I ended up getting promoted into our burglary unit and from there in 1990"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 863.319,
      "index": 33,
      "start_time": 834.514,
      "text": " 1999 I want to say it was and from 1999 all the way up to about 2000 and 2011 or 2012 I was in investigations you know I moved around to several different units but I went to homicide in 2005 and stayed there until I was promoted to sergeant in 2011 I spent the most time at homicide. Were you gunning for homicide like was that was like"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 888.951,
      "index": 34,
      "start_time": 863.814,
      "text": " Absolutely. The way that we run out, we run out of department different than a lot of police, some of the police departments, I won't say a lot, but some of the police departments, you know, we have investigators that, we have burglary investigators, then we have robbery investigators, and then we have homicide. You know, we have investigators that specialize in certain types of crime."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 919.343,
      "index": 35,
      "start_time": 890.128,
      "text": " so whereas most you know police departments don't work like that if you work burglaries if you're a detective you work all of them burglaries robberies and homicides we didn't work like that so I knew pretty early in my career that homicide was where I wanted to be it was the tip of the spear as far as investigators they were always the sharpest they were always the most cunning they were always the guys that I came up under"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 944.07,
      "index": 36,
      "start_time": 919.77,
      "text": " they were the guys that you wanted to be in police work so I always knew I wanted to go to homicide but I was young and I went into investigations at I mean I was probably in my early 20s and I think I got promoted to homicide right at about 20 you know 28 29 years old I want to say can't remember exactly but yes I was pretty young"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 973.746,
      "index": 37,
      "start_time": 944.275,
      "text": " and police work and you know seeing all of that in a young husband a young father you know I got kids you know I got babies now you know and as a homicide investigator you spend a lot of time and work a lot of time at work missing out on football games and having to leave out of your daughter's ballet practice or their recitals you know because you're getting that call but I was driven man and I wanted this is something that I wanted to do"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1001.732,
      "index": 38,
      "start_time": 974.497,
      "text": " so from the time that I was in homicide and it happened a lot when I was in robbery and burglary too but when I was in homicide my wife was almost a single wife she had to raise our kids she had to go and do all of it handle the house and everything so yeah but it was a great time in my career I wouldn't there are certain parts of it I wish I could do over again"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1030.435,
      "index": 39,
      "start_time": 1002.295,
      "text": " But I wouldn't trade it for the world. That experience was amazing for me. Do you have, are there any cases that stand out that? I got plenty of them. I got plenty of cases that stand out to me. I've worked, I've worked almost nothing that you could show me in a crime scene would surprise me."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1056.169,
      "index": 40,
      "start_time": 1030.776,
      "text": " So I've worked everything from child murders, children being, you know. It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home. A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead. And he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor the fourth. And we talked to him."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1085.896,
      "index": 41,
      "start_time": 1057.039,
      "text": " Slaying and then all the way up to, you know, elderly people being being, you know, murdered and thrown out on the side of the road. So I've got plenty of cases that that really"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1114.616,
      "index": 42,
      "start_time": 1086.63,
      "text": " Touch that affected me in different ways And that's one thing that I love about homicide. No two days are the same Never it's never the same and that's that's what some of the things that where a lot of investigators get burned out Because you know, it's just the monotony of everything that's happening But you can never say that we are homicide investigator, you know, no two days are the same so I had a case that I actually wrote about in my book called the case and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1129.087,
      "index": 43,
      "start_time": 1115.162,
      "text": " And I talked a little bit about how I moved through our police department. I talked about the impact that my mother had on me as an investigator, as a young police officer."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1158.985,
      "index": 44,
      "start_time": 1130.316,
      "text": " And I talk about this one particular case that I investigated here in Birmingham. And it's a true story. I mean, you know, some of I changed a lot of the names and things of that nature in the case. But, you know, it was a real case that actually happened here in Birmingham. It was the investigation. What happened during the investigation, the drive, you know, it almost"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1189.326,
      "index": 45,
      "start_time": 1159.804,
      "text": " Working that case almost cost me, you know, while I got it solved, got the people arrested, got justice for my victim, I almost lost everything that was important to me. That's my wife, my kids, my family. You know, but it was just, it was one of those things that just happened, man. And it helped me after working that particular case, it helped me become a better father, a better husband, and a better detective also. What was the case? What helped?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1216.408,
      "index": 46,
      "start_time": 1189.804,
      "text": " During that time, my wife and I were on a rough patch. I was kind of new at homicide. I had been at homicide for maybe a year or so and I'm still trying to make my way. I'm trying to gather all this information and learn how to do this job as well as I could and I had gotten a pretty good go at it."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1239.189,
      "index": 47,
      "start_time": 1216.664,
      "text": " And but during that time I kind of left my wife and all my kids and they you know I Wouldn't wonder around like I should have been and she had gotten fed up And plus, you know, I was doing all kinds of other stuff, you know, I wasn't the most uh, you know Faithful guy has put it like that. Right? So, you know, it happens like that so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1267.79,
      "index": 48,
      "start_time": 1239.667,
      "text": " We get out and my wife, I come into the house and she's already tired because I told her I was coming home and ended up not getting home for hours. My kids were waiting up for me. She had made dinner for me. I'm like, okay, I'm sick of it right now. So I go upstairs and I talk to my kids for a little while. I eat my food and me and her are about to get into an argument and I get a call. Now, I'll tell you what really"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1286.817,
      "index": 49,
      "start_time": 1269.343,
      "text": " help me to become really why this case was so touching to me. So I get a call that a young lady has been murdered and they asked me to come out to the crime scene which I'm going to go anyway because I'm the lead investigator that night."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1308.78,
      "index": 50,
      "start_time": 1287.159,
      "text": " Get out to the crime scene and I'm looking at this vehicle this this vehicle this is a say like a 2004 2005 BMW it's lodged up on the side of a wall and the tires are still engaged because the victim She's been shot inside of her vehicle and she tried to drive away from her attacker and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1333.985,
      "index": 51,
      "start_time": 1308.78,
      "text": " excuse me excuse me"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1359.411,
      "index": 52,
      "start_time": 1335.128,
      "text": " At any rate, I get out to the crime scene and the whole wild day I'm thinking to myself, you know, I need to try to straighten this stuff out with my wife because I'm not, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do as a father. I know that I'm not being a husband. I should be. So I get out to the crime scene and I'm not spending enough time with my kids and those were the most important things in my life. Get out to the crime scene and I'm taking down my notes and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1387.125,
      "index": 53,
      "start_time": 1361.118,
      "text": " I'm looking in the car at the victim now they've got everything set up to where I can get close enough to it and take down my notes before they remove the body from the car and I'm writing down my notes and the guy I asked the guy I said what's her name and he says Kayla and I stopped for a second you know her name is what Kayla my daughter's name is Kayla this young lady is not too much older than my daughter so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1412.108,
      "index": 54,
      "start_time": 1388.114,
      "text": " From that point, you know, I'm already struggling because I hadn't spent any time with my kids. You know, I'm already going through this mental thing that we go through as homicide investigators. You know, and from that point on, everything that I saw, everything that I did, every picture that I looked at, I didn't see my victim's face. I saw my own child's face."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1439.172,
      "index": 55,
      "start_time": 1412.773,
      "text": " and i thought about everything that was going that was happening about you know how i wasn't spending any time with her and i thought about my victim's family you know how they let that daughter go out of the house just for a few minutes you know a couple hours and now she'll never be seen again i didn't want to be like that so uh yeah yeah i started working this case and and it was like investigating my own my own child's murder murder"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1467.961,
      "index": 56,
      "start_time": 1440.316,
      "text": " You know, I picked up a really good relationship with my victim's mom, which I talked to her and her brother. And I don't talk to her father as much, but I talked to, you know, my victim's mom and brother. We're friends today and they know my kids. Her family and I, we just kind of connected, you know, and I think that connection was brought about by,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1492.5,
      "index": 57,
      "start_time": 1468.558,
      "text": " One of the most traumatic events that any person could experience and that's murder. I'm just giving you a preface of the case. I don't want to hear everything that happened. Working that case helped me to realize that every day is special. Every day you need to do something to make tomorrow better."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1509.036,
      "index": 58,
      "start_time": 1492.961,
      "text": " i started after i finished the case up and you know if you if you're interested in seeing the book or reading the book it's on amazon now it's been doing book sales have been doing pretty well but i you know i always can use another person buy one more book so uh yeah uh"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1540.026,
      "index": 59,
      "start_time": 1510.162,
      "text": " I take you through all the emotions that I went through and I take you through everything that was happening with me and my wife and my kids during that time you know the nights that I left and slept in my office and you know the nights of being out on the streets or trying to you know be at home and spend time with my kids but mentally I'm not there you know I'm physically there mentally I'm still at work trying to find these fuckers that killed my child you know so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1568.78,
      "index": 60,
      "start_time": 1541.357,
      "text": " Yeah, there's a lot of PTSD that happens with law enforcement that a lot of people don't know about, a lot of people don't talk about. And it goes, some of it comes about by some of the things that you see here and do on a daily basis. And I think that's what happened with me during that time. Do you know how many cases you work? Yes, yes."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1598.985,
      "index": 61,
      "start_time": 1570.503,
      "text": " So I've investigated, I think last count where I lead, I've led in over a hundred cases. The last count of cases that I've, you know, I've investigated murder cases that I've investigated were over 300. And may not sound like a lot, but that's a lot. Yeah, that's got to translate a lot. I was going to say, like, what are our,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1621.032,
      "index": 62,
      "start_time": 1600.794,
      "text": " What are the more complicated cases? To me, if someone really methodically thought out the crime, that's a difficult case."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1642.022,
      "index": 63,
      "start_time": 1621.63,
      "text": " If you're seeing and hearing this right now, that means you're watching Matt Cox on Inside True Crime."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1661.988,
      "index": 64,
      "start_time": 1642.449,
      "text": " At the"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1685.333,
      "index": 65,
      "start_time": 1662.244,
      "text": " Prepping you properly for the pre-sentence interview, which is going to determine a lot of what type of sentence you receive. If you've already been sentenced, we can also focus on the residential drug abuse program, how you can knock off one year off of your sentence. Also, we have the First Step Act, where you can earn FSA credits while serving your sentence. For every 30 days that you program through the FSA, you can actually knock an additional 15 days off per month."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1712.91,
      "index": 66,
      "start_time": 1685.333,
      "text": " So here's the thing when you think about homicide investigations. The one thing that's helped me out the most is almost three quarters of the murders that happen in the US, they happen, they are caused by someone that has a relationship with the victim."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1741.015,
      "index": 67,
      "start_time": 1713.302,
      "text": " you know that there's some sort of relationship some sort of connection with the victim most murders are not random acts of violence the majority of them are not so when you deal with homicides if you go into it with that mindset you can usually maneuver through and you know how to take your investigation it all starts with the background of the victim it's called victimology"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1757.841,
      "index": 68,
      "start_time": 1741.681,
      "text": " and i don't think enough schools teach enough about victimology and learning victimology because especially when it comes to homicide investigations because like i just said three quarters of every case that you'll work in this country are caused by are committed by someone that's connected to your victim"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1779.087,
      "index": 69,
      "start_time": 1759.172,
      "text": " so yeah they're all complex in that sense because you have to unravel each piece it's like an onion you have to peel back so many layers until you get to the root cause of what happened and usually 9 times out of 10 it's usually someone that's connected to a victim"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1808.951,
      "index": 70,
      "start_time": 1779.701,
      "text": " Yeah, but they all have a level of complexity that you can only understand if you've been through it or conducted an homicide investigation. But do you have any one in particular that's interesting, that was complicated, that you eventually put it together for some, you know what I mean? Yeah, so the ones that are usually the most complex"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1834.633,
      "index": 71,
      "start_time": 1809.497,
      "text": " are your serial cases uh and I've only had one of those because those are not usually your serial cases are not you know they're not they are those random acts of violence right person this person sees someone that they think would make would become a they could be an easy target they do whatever you know and they could be"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1864.275,
      "index": 72,
      "start_time": 1835.708,
      "text": " so those are the ones that you have to that are extremely hard to put together because it usually takes a lot of working moving parts and I had one like that and this one wasn't yeah this one was it was kind of random but there was a connection between the victim and the suspect so I had this young girl she was 17 years old at the time that she was murdered"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1888.251,
      "index": 73,
      "start_time": 1865.452,
      "text": " So here's the scenario. Her and her mom have been on some really bad terms and when she gets out of school she was responsible for going to her mom's job, sitting down with her for about two or three hours and then riding home with her mom from work because her mom just didn't trust her in the house by herself. She was a little bit mischievous."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1916.852,
      "index": 74,
      "start_time": 1888.831,
      "text": " On this particular day, this girl had been on punishment for, on this punishment that her mom had, you know, enforced on her. She had to get off the bus and come and sit up there with her at work until her mom got off and then her mom would take her home. But on this day, the mom said, allows her to go home, you know, go to the house a little bit earlier because she was going, her mom had to work some overtime and this young lady had to do some homework. So she allowed her to go home."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1946.203,
      "index": 75,
      "start_time": 1917.449,
      "text": " mom comes home about four hours later, finds her daughter she's been murdered she had been strangled to death and then the suspect cut her throat and he cut her throat after she was murdered her body was positioned and posed in a way that you know it wouldn't have happened if you know it wasn't just random you could tell that the body had been posed"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1968.643,
      "index": 76,
      "start_time": 1947.09,
      "text": " so the way that she was posed it led me to believe that you know it was somebody that was kind of close to her she had a boyfriend who I had some witnesses who said that you know they had seen the guy lurking around the house earlier that day and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 1990.776,
      "index": 77,
      "start_time": 1969.65,
      "text": " so I'm thinking okay this is my guy I need to go pick him up you know he's where I need to start pick the guy up bring him in for questioning he doesn't confess like that admit to anything but I get the witnesses and who says that okay they can identify him as the person that was working around the house that day but nothing"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2021.783,
      "index": 78,
      "start_time": 1992.125,
      "text": " that was it you know he was very convincing in the interview room and I didn't feel right about putting him in jail at the moment the mom's pissed off she was totally pissed off with I didn't feel right about putting them in jail so I did and I didn't have enough probable cause to charge him with anything but you know I said just give me time I'm gonna work this case and I'll find out who's responsible if it's him and he's going to jail if it's not him let me find out who's responsible"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2045.964,
      "index": 79,
      "start_time": 2023.285,
      "text": " I worked that case for three years, three years. I mean and doing something on it at least on a daily basis or going back out to the crime scene you know talking to people that knew the girl and this is during a time where DNA evidence wasn't as prevalent as it is today like you can do DNA test and get it back within a couple"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2077.022,
      "index": 80,
      "start_time": 2047.21,
      "text": " you know back then it took months it took years sometimes and you couldn't even get it unless you had you know a suspect so at any rate during those three years a lot of things happened and you know that that's when DNA and the collection of it and processing of it went into overdrive so what here at Alabama which they've done now nationwide they started taking samples DNA samples from everyone that was in prison"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2106.817,
      "index": 81,
      "start_time": 2077.142,
      "text": " Yeah. So when I first started this case, you know, we never, we didn't, they didn't do that, but I had DNA that was connected to this victim. So at any rate, three years later, I get a DNA hit from this guy, completely random guy to mom. Nobody knew that the victim and this guy had been seeing each other and talking on the phone, anything like that. She had, and actually they had just met earlier that day."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2127.09,
      "index": 82,
      "start_time": 2108.336,
      "text": " She ended up bringing him back to the house and he ended up being the one responsible for the murder. He was in prison for murdering another young woman that happened in another municipality just a few miles away from where my department was."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2156.391,
      "index": 83,
      "start_time": 2127.91,
      "text": " You know, I went over and talked to him. He wouldn't talk to me, but I had the DNA evidence, you know, against him. He had gotten life in prison for the for the other young girls murder because he did her. Although the actuality here, he got convicted before I even knew he was responsible for my murder. He had been convicted of two murders. So that's why it became a serial case. He had killed three young ladies over the span of about"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2186.135,
      "index": 84,
      "start_time": 2159.206,
      "text": " I want to say it was over about the span of a year and the only thing that connected him in my case was the DNA evidence and he had no reason to be at the house it was in a vagina and yeah you know he was responsible for that murder those are some of the cases that you know it was completely random there was nothing that suggested this girl and this guy had a connection"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2216.374,
      "index": 85,
      "start_time": 2186.51,
      "text": " and that makes it extremely hard when you're investigating homicide cases. It's just those random acts of violence. Yeah, I was going to say the the serial killers, you know, that that is the whole thing that there's some long distance truck driver. They swing into it and they'll go after somebody who's vulnerable anyway, a prostitute or somebody get in the car. Nobody sees him get in the car. They find the body like how the how are you going to how are you going to track this back to one of the"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2242.449,
      "index": 86,
      "start_time": 2216.766,
      "text": " 10,000 trucks stopped. That boy drove through that day, 10,000 trucks that drove through that day. Yes, that's exactly right. Without something like DNA, that's why they get away with so many. I always loved the books. Have you ever read James Patterson where he's got Detective Cross in the house?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2266.374,
      "index": 87,
      "start_time": 2243.148,
      "text": " So yeah, I forget the name of his like nemesis, but they always make him seem so, you know, of course he's, he's a sadist, but you know, that always make him seem so brilliant and so, and he thought everything through. And the truth is most of these guys, they're just, they're, you know, not, not that they're stupid, but they're, they're so"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2279.343,
      "index": 88,
      "start_time": 2267.022,
      "text": " over are so driven by just instinct and they make huge mistakes but they get away with it."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2310.828,
      "index": 89,
      "start_time": 2283.49,
      "text": " Like you said, there's typically no connection between them and the victim. So even though they made all these major mistakes,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2335.145,
      "index": 90,
      "start_time": 2311.374,
      "text": " the truth is, is it's just difficult to pin them down and eventually it's got to take something like DNA and they're already got five convictions and they go ahead and admit to another 10 because they know they're about to be put into the electric chair or something. Right, right, right. I mean, you know, look, it's complex within itself, but I think the technology and investigations has helped us out a lot as detectives."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2365.913,
      "index": 91,
      "start_time": 2336.8,
      "text": " You cannot beat a good detective that's just going to get out there and beat the pavement and talk to people and be able to communicate with people. Well, I was going to say, even with cameras being everywhere, you still have to go to the bank. You still have to go to the convenience store. You still have to go and you still have to. It's still all that running around to say, well, if he went this way, he probably would have crossed this liquor store and they've got a camera. So let's go there. You still have to put all those things together. Then you have to sit there and look through"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2388.2,
      "index": 92,
      "start_time": 2366.783,
      "text": " 12 hours"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2400.282,
      "index": 93,
      "start_time": 2389.002,
      "text": " I was"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2422.892,
      "index": 94,
      "start_time": 2401.067,
      "text": " you know i i when i was locked up and i would do all this research on guys and i'd order the freedom of information act like it would be hours and hours of printing documents paperwork ordering docket sheets reordering documents and then the spike in adrenaline would be you get mail and you open up the transcript and on page seven you're like"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2451.459,
      "index": 95,
      "start_time": 2424.189,
      "text": " You're right. I would feel like I had solved the case. I'm running around going. Oh my gosh, he was driven in black worst vanities, you know, whatever it would go. It always works out like that, man. You know, we would have there will be days like we would we would be going for for two or three days. I remember I had a case on first 48 a couple of years. Well, it was probably up. Oh, man, this was in."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2480.555,
      "index": 96,
      "start_time": 2452.483,
      "text": " 2010 I want to say it was this is all This case is on first 48 man. We had I mean during initial phases of the investigation. So what happened was we had this victim that was uh Inside of her home some guys break in on her put it out of the gravity and she killed a murderer inside her house and Then the store and got gas and poured gas all around the house set the house on fire tried to burn the body up"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2507.688,
      "index": 97,
      "start_time": 2481.903,
      "text": " understand ever and so during the initial phases of the investigation you know I thought it was just going to be a random I mean a completely you know kind of normal if that's the word that you can use a homicide cases which you normally can't use I thought it was just going to be like a routine investigation so while we're out on the scene some of the family members come to the house"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2533.49,
      "index": 98,
      "start_time": 2508.251,
      "text": " and they start asking about the woman's child said her child should have been inside of the house and we haven't seen the child and there's not a child inside of the house so now the case switches from just a routine investigation to now we are looking for an amputated child so we just we go we run for hours and hours and hours and then we ended up locating"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2562.09,
      "index": 99,
      "start_time": 2533.865,
      "text": " child you know at a at a friend of hers house so you know and and then we go back into the routine of investigating the case and maybe two or three hours after after that we get a big lead up where the victim's property may have been or whatever you know we run and and go start investigating that portion so that's that's you're you're very right that that's the"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2592.005,
      "index": 100,
      "start_time": 2562.773,
      "text": " the ups and downs of a homicide investigation. Sometimes you move a little bit slow. Sometimes you're running your tail off for hours and hours. Sometimes you're running your tail off for days. That's the way it works. You've got to be able to adjust your body and your mindset to doing it like that. Man, you had said something and shoot, now I can't remember."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2604.241,
      "index": 101,
      "start_time": 2595.265,
      "text": " Yeah, so, I don't know what's the worst. I would at least always joke."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2630.469,
      "index": 102,
      "start_time": 2605.384,
      "text": " about your co-defendant getting arrested. And it was always like, well, you know, you always got to say something. No, he's not going to say nothing. He'll say something. No, he won't. And I tell you, you seen the first 48, they're all talking. They're all got it. Like every one of the gangsters that walks in there ends up crying his eyes out within two hours and saying, oh, you don't understand."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2660.077,
      "index": 103,
      "start_time": 2630.981,
      "text": " I'm glad you brought that up because that reminds me that actually it was the same case I just told you about you know when I got the guys that were responsible for the murder got him into the room there was one guy I can't remember what his name was Jesus I remember this joke but he took me out so bad he was just hard and he wanted to be so hard I was like look man you charged with capital murder you know capital murder you don't believe that yourself I'm too pretty to go to jail okay"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2683.37,
      "index": 104,
      "start_time": 2660.367,
      "text": " This is what he's saying and the camera crew they get all that they eat that shit up, you know So they get all of it on camera. They post it all on the only show it I'm like I was ticked off about that case myself because you know they what they didn't show was Two days after he's charged now and now he's over at the county jail. He's had his preliminary hearing"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2713.217,
      "index": 105,
      "start_time": 2683.66,
      "text": " and you know they're not letting him go he doesn't have a bar he got to sit there until a trial because he's charged with capital murder it's starting to sink in uh yeah yeah in a in a big way i got call after call after call from jail people saying that hey hey hey uh detective anderson he wants to talk to you and the same guy that walked out of my office saying that i'm too pretty to go to jail you don't believe that yourself you know he's all big man bold"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2741.408,
      "index": 106,
      "start_time": 2713.626,
      "text": " sat right there and told me the entire thing of how this robbery went down you know and it was too late then because his partner had already snitched on everybody and told everybody you know what had happened but yeah he told everybody he told he sat there and tried to confess to everything and then he tried to withdraw his confession later on but you know that's a whole other story but the point that I want to make is"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2772.534,
      "index": 107,
      "start_time": 2742.91,
      "text": " on First 48 and all these other shows they try to seem so hard so violent but when you get them in that room in that box that's what we call it the box when you get them in the box 90% of them break down and will tell every single thing that happened they will tell you things that you weren't even investigating you know they'll tell you about crimes that they've committed that you didn't even know that they were responsible for you know just to get out of that especially when it comes to murder if they committed robberies oh my god"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2801.852,
      "index": 108,
      "start_time": 2772.961,
      "text": " They will tell you about 30 robberies that they committed that they can get out of this homicide that they look at it. But at what have you just killed? So you can't possibly think you're going to you're going to talk your way out of it. I mean, they do that. I mean, as you said, that right now that they told me what they do, they try. I mean, you know, you think about it. So I look the way our criminal justice system is set up in most states. I know in Alabama it is."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2827.79,
      "index": 109,
      "start_time": 2803.387,
      "text": " Alabama wants the most culpable person they want the person that who was the one that actually pulled the trigger who was the mastermind behind it so if you come in and you're the first person to say well he was the mastermind behind it and this is how we did it you know sometimes they are more lenient towards you in your sentencing phase right so you know look"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2851.783,
      "index": 110,
      "start_time": 2829.241,
      "text": " A lot of people will say don't go in and talk to the police. You have a right to not make any statements to law enforcement. That's your constitutional right set out by the government of the United States of America. But if you are involved in a case"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2881.92,
      "index": 111,
      "start_time": 2852.125,
      "text": " And sometimes, you know, you might want to, if you're not as culpable as the next person, first off, you don't want to do the crap. Just don't do the crap. Right. You know, that's the first thing. But if you're involved and you know, look, there's a lot of deals being slung around, especially if you're with someone that, that if you are a co-defendant, because co-defendants nine times out of 10, co-defendants going to talk. They're going to talk. I mean, so if you're not about that life, don't do the crap."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2908.148,
      "index": 112,
      "start_time": 2883.251,
      "text": " You know, if you're not about that life, don't do the crowd with somebody else. You know, that's probably some of the best advice. Um, it's funny. I always, so listen, I'll tell you something you might find funny at anybody like watching this. These guys have heard me talk about this before. So, you know, I have all these, I've done all these podcasts, right? So you've got all the scammers out there think that I'm"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2934.019,
      "index": 113,
      "start_time": 2909.104,
      "text": " You know, like the scam guru or I'm going to I'm going to make them rich or, you know, they need to hook up with me or talk to me or something. And, you know, I would get these emails offering me money if I just talk to them and I'm like, you know, no, no. And I actually had a guy one time who, you know, was texting me just kind of like on a, hey, I watched your stuff. I like your stuff. You know, so we're going back and forth."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2963.677,
      "index": 114,
      "start_time": 2935.367,
      "text": " So you, you, even though I've never met the guy, you know, you kind of, I don't want to say necessarily a friendship, but you know, you respond. Well, at some point this is we're talking about months later, six months later of talking on and off. Um, he, he flies to Tampa. He tells me, Hey, I'm actually, I have my girlfriend lives in Tampa. We're going down there. Okay. Hey, I'd love to buy you some, uh, Starbucks. Okay. I'll meet you for Starbucks. So I meet him and he tells me,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 2991.186,
      "index": 115,
      "start_time": 2965.265,
      "text": " He tells me, listen, I wanted to fly down and he had been locked up before too, in, uh, in New York. And he said, look, I was locked up in New York, you know, like I did, like, I forget three or four years. I never told on nobody. I'm like, okay. And he's like, so I wanted to come down. I wanted to let you know that, you know, I'm a solid guy. And I was like, okay. Uh, and he said, uh, but I need some help, man. Like if I could,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3021.084,
      "index": 116,
      "start_time": 2991.647,
      "text": " you know, if you could help me out, like if I could get like half a million, I forget what the amount was. He actually had like a specific amount, like 400,000 or something. He said, you can help me get 400,000. You got me get 800. He's like, I'll split it with you. He's all you got to do is tell me how to do it. I'll go in the bank. I'll go and sign the papers. I'll do this. I'll do it. And he's going on and on and on. I'm like, right, right, right. And I said, okay. And I said, well, you understand, I said, I'm basically already. Well, I said, once you get caught,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3037.517,
      "index": 117,
      "start_time": 3021.51,
      "text": " I'm already on the indictment. And he goes, what do you mean? I said, he goes, no, man, I would never say nothing. I would, I'll just take it. I said, no, no, no, no, no. Let me explain something. I said, let's say you never bring my name up. Once they grab you, I said, and they will grab you."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3066.92,
      "index": 118,
      "start_time": 3037.875,
      "text": " I said, so they're going to get you. I said, you're going to tell someone who I would never tell. So I said, stop something. You're going to tell somebody you're going to brag. It's going to get, it's going to, it's going to end up connecting to you somehow. I said, you know what they're going to do? They're going to pull your phone records. They're going to see that we've spoken on the phone. They're going to see that there's tech matters. They're going to look me up. They're going to go into a grand jury. They're going to add my name to the conspiracy or to the list of computers. I said, because this is something I'm known for. I said, so."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3093.439,
      "index": 119,
      "start_time": 3067.466,
      "text": " They're not going, I said, it doesn't, they're going to read my record. They're going to read the transcripts. They're going to see that you've come down here. They're going to see that both our phones were at their Starbucks for 45 minutes. I said that you flew back the same day. And then three months later there was, you stole a million dollars. I said, I'm already done. I said, and you know what? I said, I can't even go to trial because I can't take the stand in my own defense."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3122.483,
      "index": 120,
      "start_time": 3093.609,
      "text": " I think because I've got a history so I have to sit there while they read off all these things and they allege that I've done something even though right now I'm telling you get on the plane and fly back to New York I think that's just the way it is I'm already done I think so I don't need to give them any additional information and I said that is even that's if you keep your mouth shut and the truth is I said once you're locked up and they say look you can get two years"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3150.657,
      "index": 121,
      "start_time": 3123.08,
      "text": " You're looking at eight now, you'll get two. We know Cox, all you have to do is say that he helped you. Yeah. And we, I literally got up and we left and he was going, no, no, I was like, stop. So you don't understand how the electronic surveillance alone connects everybody. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't think I wasn't a part of it. Right. Yeah. So, so it's, it's, you know, it's tough."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3167.244,
      "index": 122,
      "start_time": 3151.015,
      "text": " It's very real. It's very, it's happened on multiple cases too. I mean the case that uh, the case that I wrote about in my book, you know, that were even though I only, you know, where I was able to indict the people that were responsible for her murders."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3197.875,
      "index": 123,
      "start_time": 3167.944,
      "text": " there were a lot of other names that came up in connection to these guys that you know we found information that helped close other cases off I mean people don't understand I guess you know some people see television and they think that you know when an investigator is working a case that's the only case that they work and that's just not true I mean I found that the guys that we that I arrested for Kayla's murder they were responsible for"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3227.261,
      "index": 124,
      "start_time": 3201.101,
      "text": " 12 other carjackets because that's how she got murdered they were trying to carjack her vehicle and they were responsible for 12 other carjackets but there were other people you know sometimes it would be those three sometimes it would be two of those guys and another guy you know or sometimes it would be just one guy and two other people but a lot of those folks got charged"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3256.903,
      "index": 125,
      "start_time": 3227.517,
      "text": " Because you know when we work cases like this, we don't just work that one particular cases There are multiple other cases that we usually get closed with every homicide Yeah, I was gonna say that's it's funny That's like committing a crime and let's say I commit the purpose me and three guys we go and we commit this perfect little Conspiracy we get a couple million dollars. We're thrilled. We we walk away. That's great You walk away or I walk away, but then two years later"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3284.804,
      "index": 126,
      "start_time": 3257.329,
      "text": " One of those guys commits a crime and it's serious. And he says, you know, and the detective says, look, you can help yourself out. Like you could do five years or you could do, you could do one year, you know, you know anything. Well, you know what? Yeah. They're going to take on the deal. Right. Got to be in prison for a long period of time. So the best thing to do is don't do the crime. Don't do that. Um, yeah, it's,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3303.951,
      "index": 127,
      "start_time": 3285.947,
      "text": " It's insanity nowadays. There's the technology, DNA, cameras, everything. It's rough."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3334.002,
      "index": 128,
      "start_time": 3304.48,
      "text": " end all be all especially DNA you know with the way that they are collecting it now it's actually become kinda dangerous in my opinion in certain aspects that is you know because like there's no way you can go in any place and not leave something of you in that place I'm talking about like the restaurants you know your friends house there are certain investigative theories"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3361.357,
      "index": 129,
      "start_time": 3334.616,
      "text": " They're not theory, they're actually facts. Let's say that each time you enter in a room, you take something away and you leave something there. So with that premise and the way that DNA is being collected, it can become dangerous. We've seen that in some of the cases that I've investigated, especially some of the cases we looked into are reasonable doubt."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3389.275,
      "index": 130,
      "start_time": 3362.773,
      "text": " Transference. That theory is called the Lacar Principle. That's what he speaks of, especially like skin cells from your hand and things of that nature that can be pooled. A minimal amount of skin cells can be pooled and you can get a DNA profile forever."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3416.596,
      "index": 131,
      "start_time": 3389.565,
      "text": " and that becomes kinda dangerous because if you find someone's DNA inside of a certain area where it shouldn't have been or inside of a crime scene and it comes back to a certain person that doesn't mean that that person is responsible for that murder that means that you need to look at that person and either eliminate them or find enough evidence that convicts them and we've had cases where some of that evidence has wrongfully"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3442.295,
      "index": 132,
      "start_time": 3417.91,
      "text": " I was going to say there was the, this was recently, I want to say like maybe a week or so ago, a buddy of mine mentioned it to me that some guy had committed a murder and one of his family members had gone on AncestryDNA and uploaded their DNA and they were like, look, a relative of this guy's"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3464.326,
      "index": 133,
      "start_time": 3443.148,
      "text": " There have been a couple of cases I've researched. One of them was a serial killer"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3489.616,
      "index": 134,
      "start_time": 3464.599,
      "text": " and uh I think it was like California or something like that uh that they were able to connect his uh his DNA or a close relative of his they were able to connect his DNA to those murders you know I never got lucky enough to do nothing like that because Jesus Christ that that would that would have been easy but you know yeah it's uh"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3513.234,
      "index": 135,
      "start_time": 3490.128,
      "text": " Oh, yeah, yeah, but I'll bet that was still that was still a lot of phone calls a lot of Phil I don't paid one of ways a lot of you know somebody any Absolutely and somebody has to put that together Somebody has to be a couple of guys got to be sitting in a room with their banging their head against the wall And somebody says you know what? This was a long shot. Yeah, what if we did this?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3543.473,
      "index": 136,
      "start_time": 3514.838,
      "text": " So all that, you know, first they run the DNA through it and then they go, ah, well, let's see if we can get a relative. Maybe he didn't do it. He's not going to upload it. Maybe a relative. Okay, run it again. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, the technology and investigations is. It's completely going way in a direction that me when I was working cases, I never would have imagined it doing something like that, but I wish I had it because there are a lot of cases that I"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3573.49,
      "index": 137,
      "start_time": 3544.104,
      "text": " Well, I left quite a few cases that I would love to see solved, finished, you know, quite a few. So what are you doing now? So right now, I serve as the Chief of Police at Talladega College. It's my alma mater. And, you know, of course, all campus police departments have their own particular police departments. And I was, you know,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3596.869,
      "index": 138,
      "start_time": 3574.104,
      "text": " I was blessed enough to get the opportunity to go back and work at my institution after I retired from law enforcement and there was a change in the leadership so they asked me to come on and see if I could help out with the security measures there and I love policing at a college it's much different than"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3626.971,
      "index": 139,
      "start_time": 3597.619,
      "text": " you know what I'm used to so uh you know now it's more mentorship than enforcement you know uh so uh yeah and I'm an instructor that I also teach uh criminal investigations there at the college okay perfect yeah yeah it's been a great it's been a great rise since retiring um okay so any no in any any"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3654.343,
      "index": 140,
      "start_time": 3627.722,
      "text": " So there was, you were on the first 48 and then you did Reasonable Doubt, was that what you said? Yeah. Okay. My memory is horrible. So, uh, Reasonable Doubt. So, I mean, are there, are there any other projects along those lines like that you're looking at or pitching or thinking about? So, uh, I don't think that we're done with Reasonable Doubt. I think that that show was so beyond its time."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3676.22,
      "index": 141,
      "start_time": 3654.787,
      "text": " there have been certain television shows that have tried to do something like a reasonable doubt but I just think that the way that we did it was it was great it wasn't just television it's really we were trying to right some of the wrongs that happened within our criminal justice system"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3701.254,
      "index": 142,
      "start_time": 3676.596,
      "text": " it was just way more than just television for me so I would love to see if we could to try to get you know another show kinda like Reasonable Doubt back on but you know other than that, that's all I'm doing now I make appearances, I've made several appearances on all kinds of all the news media stations"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3730.452,
      "index": 143,
      "start_time": 3701.613,
      "text": " Any new books you're working on?"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3753.968,
      "index": 144,
      "start_time": 3731.561,
      "text": " yeah I'm actually I actually am this fall I am working on a book called man you are crazy I am co-authoring that book with the guy that I think you're familiar with Evan Dawson Katie yeah that's my dude man Katie and I we actually met on the media circuit doing podcasts and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3777.398,
      "index": 145,
      "start_time": 3754.531,
      "text": " and our publicist put us together man to talk about some of our some of the PTSD that's involved in law enforcement which is never it's never really looked into it actually it's actually shunned upon them to even mention that you may have received some PTSD from working in law enforcement but our goal is to destigmatize that"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3800.845,
      "index": 146,
      "start_time": 3778.712,
      "text": " destigmatize that that that mindset because I believe that you respond to PT people respond to PTSD in different ways and you know if you don't get help for it don't understand how to navigate through it you usually respond in a negative way so that's our goal to write the book"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3830.725,
      "index": 147,
      "start_time": 3801.169,
      "text": " help to destigmatize and talk about, you know, how can we go about destigmatizing the mindset that PTSD does exist in law enforcement and we need to do more in order to solve the problem. I interviewed both of them. Okay. We all went to dinner. He met my wife. Who else was there? Gosh, John Alight was there. So was Mike Dowd. Do you know who that is? Yeah, Mike Dowd, yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3859.104,
      "index": 148,
      "start_time": 3831.118,
      "text": " So he was there. Um, and, uh, there was a bunch of people there. So we all had dinner and then I, we did the podcast, I think the next day and, uh, listen, what a horrible podcast. Like, I mean, they're in tears. I'm in tears. Like I borderline cried most of the day anyway, just in general, you know, and, and these two guys, you know, they're, they're tearing up and I'm tearing up. It was, it was after an hour, it was,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3888.763,
      "index": 149,
      "start_time": 3859.599,
      "text": " like I typically in the middle of the day like don't want to take it like I'm not the kind of guy that's like oh I'm gonna go take a nap like I mean I wanted to go crawl in bed and just sleep for like two hours it's emotionally draining yeah yeah yeah Katie is my guy man he's a good he's a really good guy real police I flew up to uh his city a couple months ago to do his podcast man and it was uh it was a great experience I love I love doing this studio stuff I just you know unfortunately I just"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3917.91,
      "index": 150,
      "start_time": 3889.172,
      "text": " You know, it takes a lot of time out of my schedule to fly up and do things. Yeah. He, a couple of months ago, he asked me, hey, when are you going to be in, in, in New York? I think it's in New York, right? Or New Jersey, New York, Jersey. Well, yeah. So he asked me, well, are you going to be up here anytime soon? I was like, no, no, I would like, I just go to, I just go to Jersey all the time. Yeah. Like how does that, um,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3946.63,
      "index": 151,
      "start_time": 3918.558,
      "text": " It's funny cause I actually have another podcast I need to do. I got to see the problem isn't, I don't know. There's actually like three podcasts in that general area. The problem with that general area in my mind, you know, New York city and that general area is not that big, but the truth is, but it is big. There's like three, you know, like for one podcast, like New Jersey to, you know,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3975.23,
      "index": 152,
      "start_time": 3947.227,
      "text": " There's like this this guy so I tracked it. I went on Google Maps. It's okay. This guy's address is this this last four hours like if this guy's an hour and 45 minutes like I've been two days driving This is if he's you know, I specifically went up there to do his podcast shoot some video and stuff like that and promos for the book, but You know how once I was done I was like dude, I'm ready to go. I got Yeah"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 3998.916,
      "index": 153,
      "start_time": 3975.742,
      "text": " but it was it was good to see him get good to spend some time with him. That's my that's my dog. Did you go to have you ever been to New York City? You probably look like I only went like a year ago. I have never been. Yeah. So we actually filmed with we've done two or three episodes of reasonable down in New York City. Okay."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4028.933,
      "index": 154,
      "start_time": 3999.667,
      "text": " Yeah, it's, listen, I went, so I don't know if you know anything about Florida. There's an area of Florida called Okeechobee, Lake Okeechobee and the big lake in Florida. And it's a little kind of a podunk kind of area. Very familiar with Okeechobee. Okay. Well, my wife, my wife grew up there. Oh, really? Okay. So my wife's almost only been out of Florida once or twice for like Pennsylvania, you know, in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4051.698,
      "index": 155,
      "start_time": 4029.684,
      "text": " And so she and I went to New York. I'd been in New York, but it was like upstate New York. So that's, that's not, you know, that's not New York City. We went to New York City. I mean, we went to near Times Square, the whole thing. Listen, driving through that city. I'm from Tampa. Tampa is about like, like Birmingham. Like it's, you know, there's like, there's like, there's like 12 buildings."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4067.108,
      "index": 156,
      "start_time": 4052.108,
      "text": " you know"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4084.087,
      "index": 157,
      "start_time": 4067.108,
      "text": " It's hard for us as southerners to really get the full scale of how large these cities are. Let's just sit right down in the middle and you can look at it. New York is one of those cities, Los Angeles"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4109.838,
      "index": 158,
      "start_time": 4084.974,
      "text": " is ridiculously just huge places that you just you know like we from the south we got 15 buildings that's it you know they got 15 buildings like in this corner over here and there's 15 buildings over in that corner over there you know you can you can look at any any point on the spectrum you can look at five our entire city you can fit our entire cities"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4137.944,
      "index": 159,
      "start_time": 4109.838,
      "text": " We were there for three days and the third day when we woke up and looked out the window and she looked at me and she said, you know, this was great. I'm done. I'm ready to go home. It's overwhelming. Well,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4168.899,
      "index": 160,
      "start_time": 4139.019,
      "text": " Do you have anything else you want to talk about? What I can do is we can put the description for your book in the description. We'll put the link for your book in the description. I'm assuming it's on Amazon. It is. So we'll put the Amazon link in the description and if you have any social media or anything else that you send it to me and"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4195.179,
      "index": 161,
      "start_time": 4169.616,
      "text": " My editor will also put it in there and I'll put this will put this in You know, he won't edit this out So if anybody wants to get in touch with you or buy the book check it out, you know about do you have an audible version of your book? There's a lot. No, there's not an audible. There is a Kindle version, but You gotta do an audible. Yeah So, you know, it's it's funny"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4217.278,
      "index": 162,
      "start_time": 4196.084,
      "text": " I can't read my own book. I'm just not good at it. It's horrible. I actually had a guy that contacted me and he's like, look, you really ought to put your books on Audible. And I was like, I just can't do it. I've tried it. I'm stuttering. I don't read well. I just can't do it."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4246.903,
      "index": 163,
      "start_time": 4217.705,
      "text": " And so he said, well, I'll do it and I'll, you know, I'll, I'll do a 50, 50 royalty split. And then after like, I forget, I think it's like six years or seven years. I'm like, like after six years, then it's a hundred percent yours. And I was like, so what do I have to do is you don't have to do anything. Like you just have to tell me to tell me to do it. So he did it and put up and put it up. And I, listen, I suddenly over the course of a few months started getting a nice little chunk of money for, and did nothing. Yeah."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4273.865,
      "index": 164,
      "start_time": 4247.039,
      "text": " I mean, actually, that's not true. The only thing I did do was my jacket cover. I had to make a square version of the jacket. Like, not like it's like a joke or nothing. So, so literally he did everything. He put it on audible. He let me I listened to the whole thing. I any corrections he made that did everything. So, you know, if you're interested, I can give you his name or, you know, if you don't want to do it yourself. Yeah, I mean, well, you know,"
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4303.251,
      "index": 165,
      "start_time": 4274.582,
      "text": " I'm going to talk to my publisher. If you'll send me his information, I'll have it. I'm seriously going to do an audible version. I don't know how much time I have to do it myself, but I think I would want to do it myself. I would too if I thought I could. But you may be an excellent reader. You may be perfect. I mean, you're probably great. You probably just need a sure mic and you're good. Yeah, well, we'll see."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4324.121,
      "index": 166,
      "start_time": 4305.452,
      "text": " Because there are some people that they're just not going to read. They'll listen to a book. They'll download it for $9, but they're just not going to and they listen to a long distance truck driving doing whatever. They're just not going to read the book. So I don't feel like you're losing anything. I don't feel like it's, oh, they would have bought a book or they'll buy this. No, no, they weren't going to buy anything."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4353.37,
      "index": 167,
      "start_time": 4325.64,
      "text": " Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this and leave a comment in the comment section. Also, we're going to leave Detective Anderson's Amazon link in the description so you can click on it and buy a copy of his book and we'll also leave all of his social media links too if you want to follow him."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4378.234,
      "index": 168,
      "start_time": 4353.899,
      "text": " It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him."
    },
    {
      "end_time": 4387.056,
      "index": 169,
      "start_time": 4379.104,
      "text": " Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts."
    }
  ]
}

No transcript available.