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The Donald Trump of Synthetics Arrested by the FBI
February 5, 2025
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Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jean Chatsky. You may know me as the host of the Her Money podcast or the financial editor of NBC's Today Show for 25 years.
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8 vehicles, they take a million dollars clean in the bottom of a safe. I'm running a legal business that happened to start selling these products that were just banned. I'm in my twenties, going to bars, not really doing much.
I found that I had an affinity for the side hustle of selling grass. I went from selling a little bit here and there to friends and you know, just getting enough to have some for yourself to all of a sudden making trips where you're in it with one bad move. So I had put together a little nest egg through doing that of maybe $20,000, let's say, right? Something like that. And, you know, in this small town that I'm from,
The, uh, the only smoke shop in the town is called OCJ's odd creations junket. You go in there, this guy literally started the business in 1979, the year I was born and looks like he hasn't changed much since 1979. So you go in there, he keeps the lights out until someone comes in. Oh, all right. I'll turn them on now. Like cheap, crazy dust on everything. This is a, this is a terrible, terrible smoke shop. This is the only one in town.
so uh so it doesn't have to be super good it's the only option you don't have any other options yeah and this guy's like an old stoner everybody loved him you know he's uh you know everybody's cool with him it's a cool thing yeah we go see danny it's a you know it's a thing
So he's, he's having pretty good success there, but here's me. I've, I've been doing this little hustling on the side. Uh, and I want to do something with this money. I've always, you know, wanted to get into business. So then I decide I'm going to do a smoke shop. I'm going, I'm looking at stuff online. I'm looking from everything from Chinese classware, from Alibaba and these other online, uh, sites to, uh, to, you know, real wholesale websites. So I start looking them up. I'm putting stuff in carts. I'm doing all this stuff.
And I said, yeah, this is this is it. This is the thing I'm going to do. So I put together a smoke shop, probably spent half of this nest egg that I had, you know, and I'm running the smoke shop that that's all going good and fine. But I'm making maybe $100 a day profit.
Not a world killer. People start coming by and they're telling me, Hey, there's the town Utica. It's 20 minutes away. After you're paying your lease and everything or you're making it, they're making 3000 a month and you still have to pay for your lease. No, no, no, that's profit. I'm making about a hundred dollars a day profit. I'm probably doing three or $400 a day in business. Okay.
So it's a, it's a business. It's working. Yeah, you can live off this. I certainly could have. I wouldn't want to. Yeah. And believe me, it's getting, it's getting better. So people start coming by. They're telling me this, this next city over same thing, one store in town and they kind of treat people like shit. They're just like, Hey, take it or leave it. Kind of they've got attitudes. That's crazy. No one likes going there, but they're the only show in town too. And people are telling me, Hey, if you come over here and build one here, people will go there. They don't like these guys, you know,
So I do it. I go, I start a second one. I have a friend working the first one and I'm starting the second one. Now, keep in mind this whole time, I'm doing a little bit of side hustling, right? Not a lot, but I'm doing a little bit of side hustling, but I've got a good friend that just has always been a grower. That's all he's done in his whole life. He loves it. So I start the second one and I'm actually going so crazy at that time that we actually build a grow room upstairs
In a smoke shop, which is absolutely terrible idea. You're already have scrutiny because you're running a smoke shop selling paraphernalia. Why don't we throw up a grow room? Why don't we go ahead and make it official? Yeah, it's a great idea. Brilliant, right? So and believe me, there's gonna be a lot of brilliant ideas here, right? This is one of them. So so I'm doing the grow room. You know, I've got the two stores. It's going pretty good between side hustle money. Both stores are profitable. It's going good. And so
Crazy moment in walks a guy that I still notice they Tommy. So Tommy walks in Tommy's from Colorado, but he's always out. He's always traveling around. He's around all these places in West Coast and he's coming. He's like, Hey, do you got any of this spice?
What year is this? This is 2006, 2007. This is just becoming prominent nationwide.
Now keep in mind, this is the original version of what I call K2 spice. It's a synthetic product. The original version was actually really good. Okay, so what I tell people for an analogy is
Water is H2O, two atoms of hydrogen, one atom of oxygen. So imagine if instead of H2O, you create H3O. It's very similar in chemical structure and still causes the same effect to the human body, but yet it's not going to set off a field test and urinalysis and all the stuff that people worry about because keep in mind, it's not like today where there's almost every state has legalized grass. This is, you know, it's banned in every state. This is not legal anywhere.
So this product is becoming prominent nationwide and I am the first person in my area and to have a leg up I'm in these two towns that I'm the only show in town, you know, there's there's one other store, but I'm the only one doing this So Tommy comes in he tells me about all this and I'm going you know, what let's let's try some bring something, you know
And Tommy was really funny. He was really good. He would, every single thing he ever brought me said not for human consumption on it. And it was, you know, this obscure federal law that the synthetic drug act of like 1987 was, if it's anything that's meant for human consumption is, you know, if it has this, this and this, it's illegal. So he would have not for human consumption on everything. So he brings it in.
And I mean, this thing blows up. When I tell you it blows up, it's going crazy. So, and then I start making it go crazy. So I am running on a local radio station. I'm blasting this on the radio. Come get this magic, magic something, magic smoker. We called it something. The original one, it was Tommy's name, right? So come get this. I'm running on the radio saying this. Okay.
I did sort of like a podcast as Bill Keeler was a local radio talent. I'm going on his show. I'm doing the show and the guy that's working the show also, he pulls it out of his pocket. Hey, look, I went and got some this morning. It's fantastic. It works. It's just like the real thing. So it's nuts because I'm bringing it to an area nobody had ever heard of it in, you know?
So when I tell you this takes off, I mean, this takes off. This is now you're going from doing three, $400 a day to every stores doing at least a thousand dollars a day on slow days.
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It's go time, right? How do we do this? So I get immediately to work on creating new stores. So I start going around to all these little to any little town that was near far enough to have a new location, but close enough that it's, it's got its own people. It's really close.
So I go to a third small town near me, town of 20,000 people. I'm going around and ask people, Hey, what radio station you list? I'm interviewing people as you're going out front, typical things that you would do when you're starting a business. But I'm keeping in mind that this is the number one seller. So this isn't just a regular smoke shop anymore. This is building a smoke shop with the intent that we are going to sell mucho spice there, right? Like this is a, it's going to go crazy.
So are you concerned at all that like it could be, it could be illegal or could be made illegal. Oh, at this point, no, it was, this was a tiger by the tail. This was, you know, this was, I've got this thing that nobody else has. Everybody's trying to get into this. At this point, people are looking to open stores and I'm demolishing them all because I am pumping radio ads. I'm building new places. I've got the word of mouth already.
Everybody in the whole area was knowing that you could go buy this. So keep in mind, the area that I'm from has like a Walmart distribution center right near there. Over 3,000 people work there, regularly piss tested. They love it. So it's a lot of the works. There are many prisons in upstate New York right near me. Everybody who worked at those prisons, I can now go and smoke and not fail your analysis. It's huge, right? This thing is really taken off.
so it's everybody and it's people that just don't want to deal with the regular call my guy go meet him in a gas station parking lot bullshit you know I can go right in pay this I'm a paying sales tax on it if I get pulled over I'm telling hey look I just got this right here at Tebs I just want this right now look at it
So it's, it's taken off. I mean, this is going nuts. So I build the third one, the fourth one. Now I, now I go to Syracuse. So this is, you know, I'm from a small town. It's 30,000 people. Syracuse got, you know, almost 200,000 people. So I go right to a very popular bar area Armory square. I mean, I must've spent 20 grand on this bill. I don't even own the building spent 20 grand on just remodeling it.
14 foot high ceilings with big glass water pipes up and down built a huge smoke shop right downtown I Start running on you know, so you've got the station was called k-rock So I'm running on the radio stations in my area and now I start running on Syracuse radio stations It is it takes off. It's going nuts You know, so I'm building stores. We are we are going crazy
I'm actually having to build out a real team now, you know, because I've got to build out people just like a regular business. I've got to have sort of district managers. All right, you take care of this and this story. You do this. It becomes, you know, quite a lot to deal with at that point. But when I tell you money's rolling in, it's it's huge. So I start taking off. I start doing all these other ones. I do
Four of them total in Syracuse. I had 12 stores all said and done at the end, but I had done four in the Utica Rome area where I'm from. Four of them in Syracuse. I go up, I do one in Watertown. Watertown is next to a place called Fort Drum Military Base. It's literally half the people in this town. It becomes my best store instantly. It's all these army guys. They all have piss tests.
They can all come get this. What's happening with the other stores? Are they just there? They're not catching on that. Hey, I should sell this or Oh, everybody's catching on. Yeah, everybody's selling it. So in the end, but they're just by everybody. Yeah. So then not only are they behind the ball on it, but I am getting to the point where I'm running radio stations. We are the
the name recognition that everybody knows, right? So I'm running on the radio station. I'm pushing marketing as hard as possible. I'm building big, huge sites. Normal smoke shops just have like this little, you know, they don't do big crazy signage. Now you see them all with it. They want, you know, they want everybody know they're there. But at this time, it kind of wasn't like I was going to say it's funny because like if you go to, if you go to get cigarettes someplace, right? Like you go to 7-Eleven to get cigarettes and they don't have them.
And then you go to Circle K to see if they have them and they do have them almost nobody ever goes back to 7-eleven again like they'll always keep going to Circle K why because they always have the cigarettes I want that they would have to run out for you to even consider going back to the 7-eleven that ran out you see I'm saying so and not just that now that they're going there now every time they need some
You know, some they need to buy a soda. They don't go. Why would I go to the old 7-eleven? They don't even have my secret. They go to the new place. They keep going. Now they're buying all their now that that becomes kind of their go-to move. So you're basically you're saying that that you became you're pulling from these other places. They're buying their stuff at your place.
And they're just kind of staying there at this point, right? Cause nobody else, even if these guys come up, obviously they get cigarettes again. Doesn't matter. This is the place that always has it. And this is a place I'm now there. You'd have to fuck up for them to go back to seven 11. Oh yeah. And I'm leaving out a very important part of this too. So early on when I'm, I'm at three or four stores and I'm realizing there's all these people that are out there trying to push their brand of this spice. So you're getting phone calls. My stores getting calls every day from,
The whole country is onto this and these people are calling, I'm trying to sell some version of this to me. Well, as luck would have it, the guy that I started with, Tommy, he's a, he's a, he's a scientist, this guy, right? Like he's into it. He's trying, he's ordering all kinds of different synthetic drugs and trying them. He's nuts. He's into it.
So he's making me stuff that's much better than other people. And very early on, I realized I've got to make my own brand. I want to control this brand. I actually was getting copied by other stores that were taking our brand, photocopying it, making stickers that said Legal Funk, which is our brand, and selling it in their stores with a black and white face to it. You know, other stores are starting to copy because people are coming in saying, have any Legal Funk? No, that's the one I want.
It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it.
His name, David Minor IV, and we talk to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.
of not only what you're doing, but he would put a couple of different ones in one. So the original formula was called JWH 018. That was the more closely. So that was like the H3O, but you'd have H4O, H5O. They kept making different ones of these, you know? So he's making the best ones possible at this time, right? So I go up, I do Watertown. So about right after I do the Watertown one,
It's going hard. I mean, Watertown's doing eight, $10,000 a day every day. It's going hard. All of a sudden, you start having little news outlets and people start doing these stories of, hey, there's this new phenomenon and people are catching on. You're getting articles, news, different things, you know?
And so the writing is starting to be on the wall a little bit. Like, Hey, they're, this is becoming very prominent. They're going to have to do something about it. So I'm watching all of that kind of stuff. Right. And my guy, Tommy is seriously watching all that kind of stuff. If they banned something, it's a, it's sort of a cat and mouse game when it comes to this, right. They ban H3O you make H4O. They ban H4O you make H5O.
Right. So about right after I had done Watertown, they had started to do some bands and they would take like five chemicals at once and say, okay, these are now on the controlled list. This is now considered a controlled substance. So they did. I think the original band was like five different chemicals. Tommy was ready. Boom. We're on, we're onto something else. So, you know, am I worried that this is illegal? I'm not even thinking of that. I'm thinking,
Again, tiger by the tail mentality. Yeah, they change it. We're gonna change it Doesn't matter. They want to you want to ban this by the time you get this done We're gonna be on to the next thing. That's not even a problem, you know, so I mean that's at least my thinking at the time It's obviously see where that led, but that's uh, that's my thinking at the time
So, uh, you know, like I say, right after we do Watertown, not only does this start becoming like a deal, you're seeing it in news stories. I had had a few reporters calling me. I'm not talking to any of them. I'm just going hard. And people always ask you this with the end. And after you don't, you know, why didn't you stop? Why didn't you stop? Well, you, you're not making the kind of money that I was making. And on top of that, for me, I'd never made that kind of money in my life. I was, you know, just running around doing job to job bullshit. I'm not making this kind of money.
So it starts hitting the fan a little bit, right? They're onto it. You're getting the five chemical ban. All of a sudden, I get blacklisted by the Army. So I get served in every single location.
Every store, my house, I had already built a warehouse that I'm distributing product in, everything from my warehouse. I get served everywhere that, hey, just to let you know, US Army personnel are no longer allowed to step foot in any of your premises, list them all out. So I'm blacklisted. Army personnel, so they're pissed up there, right? They're not happy about this.
So we're blacklisted. And what's funny is I used to just kind of go around to all these stores. I'm checking in, seeing how everything's going, see what people are doing. And I was going up to Watertown. I'd hang out for an hour or two, just kind of see how things are going. I'm noticing all kinds of weird stuff is selling in the Watertown store. Pink stuff, different shirts.
I hang out for an hour. I realize everybody's sending their wives in. Everybody's sending all the women and every pink pipes and all that other place. Different things are selling in this store now. And that's all they're doing. They're, they're just sending somebody else in that this store's numbers are still never stopping, you know? So, uh, I ended up opening three more stores after that, right? So I do a total of 12 stores. I mean,
Getting towards the end of this, we are pulling in money. We are, you know, this thing is, I have two different district, I have somebody running the three main stores, I have somebody else running, you know, four stores from Syracuse, a different person running all the Utica Rome stores, and
You kind of convince yourself, like we're skirting a gray area. This isn't illegal. We're just skirting a gray area. You know, I've got bank accounts with a bunch of money in it. We're going and counting money. You're doing, you know, a hundred, we'd go count, get money from every store. You're doing 120, $150,000 a week in cash sales. Plus, you know, much credit cards, other stuff. It's, it's pretty crazy. You know, it's going full fledged. It's a, it's going hard. And, uh,
Yeah, these are really the good times because a lot of other people they're committing crimes and they know it's coming to an end.
eventually right like you had to know this is coming they are going to catch up to me well i thought i was pretty cocky i thought i'm just that good you're never gonna get me yeah i'm that good you get you become emboldened and people think that it's people think that's easier than people think right but i know what i'm doing is illegal like i was not let's not like you're you're thinking okay they just banned this okay we're gonna switch this we're gonna do this and this we're good okay cool let's keep going like you're thinking
I'm ahead of them. Right. And so I'm thinking I'm ahead of them, but I'm also thinking we can stay ahead of them. They're publicizing these upcoming bands. We know when this is going to happen. They're saying, Hey, we're, this is going to be reviewed in Congress in two weeks and we're getting solicited by people cause everybody's watching it. So we're getting solicited by people that are trying to sell this stuff. And they're saying, Hey, buy our stuff. We're up on the laws. We're not going to let you have anything older that's outdated or no good anymore. You know? And,
Keep in mind, there's also some other bad stuff that's happening at this time. At this time, okay, so my analogy, the H2O, H3O, H4O, now by the time you make H47O, you're pretty far away from the original formula, right? We're not talking, you know, just a regular synthetic product anymore. You're talking about something crazy. And you're getting stories like, you know, in Florida, people are eating people's faces. You're getting crazy stories.
Yeah, that's like I think I remember like when I was in high school or middle school people saying I don't know if it's the same thing called like bath salts or something. But I remember people being saying like in Miami is like like a literal zombie, like trying to eat. Right? Yeah, you know, there was a there was a kid that like ate his neighbor's face or something wasn't a kid or was it
Yeah. And the story ends up being overblown for what it is, but it's a, you know, it's true. And people are, like I say, you get so far away from the original formula and it's crazy because here it is, the federal government thinks they're helping. You're coming in, you're hurting this. You're banning all the very close formulas, the ones that are more natural and more likely to be natural and like the real thing.
And you're making these people, but you're having people go and create formulas that are far off. This is made in some lab somewhere and it comes in as kilos of powder and you're taking it and you're putting it, dissolving it in alcohol and spraying it on a dried plant material, you know?
You don't really know what the effects are at this point. Yeah, you don't know, and you don't know who's done that. Now me, I know, I know who's doing mine and I trust him. So I know that what we're doing is good and the proof is in the pudding because everybody loves what we're doing. We're outselling everybody, right? And I know what's going on the street. Keep in mind, I would be going to, I'd go to Vegas to all these trade shows, these smoke shop trade shows, right?
And I remember going to champs trade shows where literally a whole section of the trade show is nothing but like K2 and spice area. There's people selling truckloads of, uh, mania leaf and marshmallow leaf and the actual materials used to make it. Those guys are making killings. You'd have people that buy up the whole supply by truckloads of it for a couple hundred dollars a pound and then selling it. They found an arbitrage opportunity and nuts.
so i mean i would be going to these places and i would be seeing everybody do it so there's a lot of people and there's a lot of people doing it way bigger than we're doing it i just happen to be killing it in the area that i'm in so but everybody's doing this and at this point every other store is doing it too
I'm getting blacklisted because I happen to have one that's very popular with the army, but you know, you go to convenience stores, Circle K's and 7-Elevens, and people have a similar product there. Everybody wanted in on this. And that will sort of rock you to sleep too. That'll let you think, well, everybody's doing this. It's Bob, Dave, Joe, everybody's doing it. So what am I doing that's any different?
If they're going to get anybody, they're going to get Paul. Yeah, he's got a huge operation. He's all over the country, right? Like you're thinking, yeah, yeah, you're certainly not on their list. No. And then, you know, a little secret for everybody out there is nobody knows what the federal government can do when they come in. You know, I had only known of state things, you know, when things happen on a state level.
You know, if you've got enough money to post some bail, you're fine. So I know at any point in time, you know, I mean, I've got a safe, I'm trying to stack a million dollars of brand new hundred dollar bills in this thing, right? Like I've got, I'm like going to the bank and exchanging some like old shitty ones and getting brand new crispy ones. How many you got? Oh, you got $30. I'll take those. And I'm trying to stack this to make a million dollars clean in the bottom of a safe. I'm fucking around with money at this point, right? Like it's,
It's pretty crazy and everybody's doing it. So I just think I happen to, in my mind at the time, I'm the person that happens to be really good at this in Rome, New York. There's another guy who happens to be really good at this in Tampa and in Los Angeles and wherever else. I just happen to be the guy in Rome that's really good at this.
So I'm, you know, I have a question. Are you, are you married at this point? Are you living in a nicer house? Are you still living in your one bedroom? Yeah. So I went from smaller apartments to, you know, as the money's coming in more and more, I, you know, I had, you know, a nice five bedroom house in the city, but then as,
As I start to be this person that everybody knows and when I tell you I'm this person everybody knows is you know I've got these I'm on I've got these stores that are in every town nearby I've got I'm on the radio all the time people are reciting my commercials to me.
I'm in the middle of town and that gets a little sickening when you're making a lot more money than everybody else is. You're the first person people, when they need money, you're the first person they call for a loan, first person when they need anything in the world. As soon as they get arrested, I had Rome police booking in my phone, so I know, all right, who is it this time? I need bail money.
So I, uh, so I'm, I'm living in a five bedroom house in the city. I go to a really nice house. That's sort of two miles out of town. And, uh, that was the last house that I, but yeah, I'm, I'm living in a nice house. I've got, you know, at the time three kids married, um, all extravagant with that shit too. Like I went to Atlantic city and got married. I was the first one to get married out on the pier in Atlantic city. They got a little mini water show sort of like the Bellagio. So I'm,
Yeah, I'm doing that. I'm married. I went and bought an RV and this ends up being a money laundering charge, but I bought an RV for $205,000 and because I flew to Texas to go get it, it's nuts. So I buy a brand new 40 foot diesel pusher RV and I've got people managing this for me. I'm leaving sometimes two, three weeks at a time.
I'm driving all around the country in this RV. I mean, I did a trip that was nuts. I went to the Arch in St. Louis, down to see my sister in Louisiana, over to the Grand Canyon, Vegas, LA, Mall of America. That's the kind of stuff that I'm doing at the time. And again, this is all legit. And what's crazy is,
On the last ones of these RV trips, that's when I'm starting to get some of these crazy calls in, right? Like people are, uh, Hey, uh, the health department stopped by here cause there's, it's starting to get where they're trying to come at you from any angle that they can. They tried a few health department passing things. They try, uh, they, they, they've tried a lot of different things. I had, uh, I had a couple of raids from a local police department, the Herkimer, uh, village police.
Oh, and then this, the guys, the captain has me out front. He's trying to have a heart to heart. People are getting hurt on this. They're using this. They're getting hurt. And, uh, you know, me being in that mindset, I'm trying, you know, I'm out there telling them, I didn't make them do this. You're shutting down the, the ABC lounge. Is that what you guys are doing? People are getting, you know, that bar across the street sells, sells alcohol people.
kill each other driving drunk like are you shutting them down like what you're doing is perfectly legal why would they shut you you know i'm saying yeah like somebody's telling him to do that
Right. And you know, you know what you're doing is hurting people, but it's by their choice. I didn't like hurt people my way of doing it. They came in and decided to purchase something and some people aren't screwing their lives up with it. They do it in a bar. They do it at a casino. 7-Eleven, like people are going, they're getting off work, going and buying two six packs, going home and getting drunk and beating their wife and fucking kids. Like shut down, shut down 7-Eleven. If that's, if that's what your real concern is.
Yeah, and what is what are they? I'm sorry one more time when they come in and raid. What are they rating for? What are they saying? We're here to raid your place for what? What are they looking for? So at the end when they came in and did the raid they were they had made buys in April of 2012 and they were and that the buys that they made in April 2012 they were looking for the chemical that was in that batch.
And what's crazy is when this all happens, so they end up doing 14 search warrants at the exact same time. So I am the, the Syracuse area DEA's only target. I'm the only person they're targeting. And that's because they had to do 14 of them. So you've got, you know, uh, by the FBI, all these, you know, the whole alphabet there, you've got local police, you got all these people in each one of these. When they're doing 14 of them at the same time, trying to make them simultaneous.
So when they come in, they literally, I'm handcuffed. I'm sitting in a chair at my, I'm at my warehouse. There's about eight people there and I'm by the door and, uh, uh, one of the undercover DEA just comes over and he's showing me on his phone. He says, Hey, this guy, I'm like, no, I don't know the guy at all. And he's like, yeah, that's me. And, and looking closer, he's like, yeah. So I went to your store and I made a couple of buys and he's showing me pictures, the stuff they want. And I'm like, so, you know,
And, uh, and he's like, yeah, that's, you know, uh, it's banned now. And I'm like, yeah, well, I'm aware of the ban on, on July 9th. And you're going to see when you used to have everything here, uh, nothing, nothing here, right. Which was true. And it's crazy because they have somebody that comes in that looks completely out of place. Everybody else is uniformed. This guy comes in and I don't know who he is, but he must be something to do with a lab guy. He comes in, he does something for a while. Cause I can't see around the corner where he's at. He comes back out and he kind of shakes his head.
He's looking at somebody and he kind of shakes his head and I'm going, yeah, you know, I've got the new batch. I'm aware of that law. Everything I have is good, you know? So they are just interviewing people. There's eight people there in this warehouse. They're interviewing them and letting them go one at a time. And so now it's just me there.
And so at the end, I'm like, all right, where, where are you taking me? I'm trying to figure out in my head. I'm trying to figure out the bail situation. What, what do I have to, who I have to call to try to get some money to come bail somebody out. Right. And, and keep in mind, they are bringing out my safe is in my warehouse. They are bringing out trash bags full of
synthetic products, all kinds of weird stuff. Cash. One bag was full of cash. They took everything from everywhere. And keep in mind, the number that is in my paperwork is not the correct number. These scumbags, just a side note, it's not the same number.
and uh and and yes so they're taking all of this stuff out so i'm thinking for sure i'm you know it's i'm going somewhere and at the end that guy says no no no we're just we're we're sending this to the lab uh we know where to find you and uh gives me a card says you you better call an attorney that's it they uncuff me and they leave i'm going wow i'm shaking i'm like wow
So I, uh, this is a crazy day. And so by the time I get out and they take my car, they take everything. They seize eight vehicles. They take all these vehicles. So I get a ride. I go home. I'm watching myself on the six o'clock news raids all over all these stores and, uh, all the feeling, the punch in the gut though. But even then it's still not like, Hey, this is, this is over. This isn't the end. This is like, ah, they,
Are you are you allowing yourself to think that at some point they will come up with something and I'm what am I looking at or you thinking? No, I'm just going to keep beating them.
Yeah, yeah, you're always life is always about risk versus reward, right? Right. And so earlier, that's why I never got into anything hard. It's risk versus reward. The risk is high.
is lower than the reward I'm in, right? So it's that's what I'm always weighing risk versus reward. So at the whole time, I am never thinking that the risk is something crazy, right? Because in the end, the risk that they were threatening is a continuing criminal enterprise, right? Because you're running you you have
You're conspiring with five or more people from three or more different locations to run a criminal enterprise. So in the end, that's the threat. Nobody knows that that carries a mandatory minimum of 20 years. Right. Keep in mind. Right. So I don't understand that this is the risk. Nobody knows what the feds are going to do when they come in. People know what happens on a state level because it happens all the time. And when you're from a small town like I am,
There's no federal trouble there. No one ever gets in. It may be some drug thing here or there, but you don't know the inner workings of what happens when the feds come in. When they come in, they bitch slap everybody and take everything. And then they say, it's guilty until proven innocent. And, you know, you don't realize that at the time. So at the time, what do I think is the worst case scenario? A couple of years? Yeah. So they
They leave, hey, you better get a lawyer. And I am, you know, I'm taking it serious, but I'm not taking it as serious as it is. Right. So I go home, feel sorry for myself for the rest of the day, watching myself on the news. Everyone's calling me. What happened? All that kind of stuff.
So I get up in the morning, first order of business, let's go find an attorney, right? Now I go and I talk to Les Lewis, my guy who's my favorite attorney ever. The problem with Les is he does state city stuff where I'm at. I'm being charged in federal court in Syracuse, which is 45 minutes away from me.
And, you know, I've always thought if you're going to go get an attorney, especially for somebody, something important, you want somebody who knows everybody in that building, plays golf with the judges and the DAs and you know, that's who I'm looking for.
So I'm going and I'm interviewing these attorneys. So I go into Jeff DeRoberts, prominent Syracuse attorney. He's telling me, Oh, we're going to get this thrown out. This is not the, it's unbelievable. 16 days. Yeah. You didn't even know. You didn't know. You didn't know, you know, that's it's nothing. We're going to get this thrown out. My fee is 25,000 blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, wow, okay. It's not so bad. And then, uh, then I go into my attorney that I ended up hiring, uh, uh, George Hildenbrandt and
I sit down, I tell him the story, and George Hildenbrandt tells me, you're going to federal prison. He's like, oh yeah, you're going to federal prison. It's just a matter of how long. It's just semantic from here, but you're going to federal prison. And I'm like, wait, it's been 16 days. They passed a law July 9th. I'm only in possession July 16th.
And keep in mind a part that I'm leaving out here is they seized, you know 100,000 grams of You know product right and the only thing I'm having a problem with we had I told you the health department tried doing some weird things We had this old batch that was still legal in the state of Maine. It was only banned by the health department and
in the state of New York. And we were slowly sending this batch to Maine, right? It's only civil if you have a health department. It's like a health department violation. It's not a big deal. So we're taking it and we're slowly. It's just, it's what you can fit in one little bin this much. There ends up being 8,000 grams of this batch, right?
Which you never sold. But you didn't sell in the area. Never sold it. The only problem is I'm in possession of this 8,000 grams. So I go into George Hillenbrandt's office and it's 8,000 grams. So you look at this, when you have a synthetic drug case, they have to find the equivalent and they convert it to what its equivalent would be in grass. That's how they do it in the federal system.
I go in there and he says, no, no, no, they're, they're, uh, they're not going to, this isn't going to be 8,000 grams of that. They're going to convert this to something different. And it doesn't matter that it's been 16 days. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You're going to federal prison. So, uh, I go, wow. And I had been to see maybe three or four attorneys, but I just liked, he was upfront. He was prominent. Everything. So, uh, so I ended up hiring George Hildenbrandt and
Sure enough, as we go into the process,
He's hearing from them and they're telling him that they are going to charge this as a methyl something. It's a real long name, but it's basically like ice is what they're making this the equivalent of. Why not grass? It is what it more closely represents. And they have a three tiered system that determines what this is more closely to what is more closely to in chemical structure.
And there's all these different rules behind it. So for example, if you took one gram of something illegal and mixed it in with 999 grams of something that's fully legal, baby powder, and you mix it in, that all becomes it. So that's the argument. And they're saying, we're going to charge this and the conversion is 347 to one. So 8,000 grams in the federal system is probation.
It's nothing. It's not it's not a big deal. Multiply that 8,000 times 347. It gets a little it becomes a big number, right? Right. And so what is that number 10 years, 20 years, my guideline ended up being 87 to 108. That was my guideline range for that. For that level. And yeah, so 87 months.
Yeah, 87 months. So it's, wow, seven years. This is nuts. But, you know, the whole time, this is what happens with attorneys. They tell you there's all these extenuating circumstances. They can, you know, there's just, this isn't like normal there. You know, we're going to have an evidentiary hearing where we're going to argue this out. So what it was, was I ended up taking a plea bargain to agree to possession of 8,000 grams of AM2201.
And the deal was that we would agree to disagree and argue later at an evidentiary hearing what that converted to. So when I went in to jail, it was I could get, if I win that evidentiary hearing, I could get probation time served in probation. If I lose that five, 10 years, like not good. Right. So.
The whole beginning time that I'm in this county jail, my life is hinging on this evidentiary hearing. So, uh, so that's a big one, right? Bring in your own expert. So we did. We hired one chemical expert, which George found, and they had two experts and only one of them shows up to the hearing. It's just crazy.
And so we had this evidentiary hearing and it's pretty crazy. The evidentiary hearing is you're in a courtroom and it's weird and the judge is sitting there listening to everything and you're both making your case to this argument. My attorney opens up with a screen on the wall and it is the definition of what this chemical is and it refers to it as a synthetic grass product.
It's now this is this this definition is on the DEA's website DEA.gov. So he says that and so they're there. He says that she's on the stand there witness and she says, oh no, that's that's outdated information. That's what we had the time. We've we've since learned that these chemicals more closely represent resemble other things and that's their argument, right? And so he says, would it surprise you to know that that's on the DEA's website this morning?
And she says, I just don't know why that's there. That's outdated information.
We there's these three prongs and I forget what they are, but I'm telling you, we crushed them on on two out of three. For sure. We crushed them on two out of three. And I remember when I first hired my attorney, he had said, hey, let's let's hope we get judge heard. He he sentences drug cases very favorably. He's got a son who's like, you know, addicted and, you know, he senses drug cases very favorably. Let's hope we don't get more do. He's the senior judge in the district. He's a former prosecutor.
So, of course, I get the honorable Norman Amordeau. So, yeah, so I'm in a county jail. I have three or four. You're in the county jail. When did you go into county jail? You said you went from, you had
you interviewed attorneys, you got your attorney, you had an evident, you pled guilty, you have an evidentiary hearing. Why are you in the county jail? Why didn't they let you stay out until? So, uh, so I was, they had let me stay out, um, um, from the original time. So I hire, uh, George, we go in, I do the original, uh, plea with the stipulation that will, will argue the evidentiary hearing later down the road.
And at the time, oh man, I was taking all kinds of pills, you know, just whatever, you know, just it was pretty crazy at the time, overweight, just going nuts, making tons of money and not thinking too much. And when I was out, I had gotten pulled over in a gas station parking lot, and I had two of them on me.
And they ended up, I stayed overnight in the, in the local city jail for that got out the next morning. Uh, they, they came and got me like literally a day or two later. The feds did the seven day marshals. You're revoked because you were coming right now. You were on pretrial release until sentencing and that violated your pretrial release. Violated it. You're done. You're getting put in as of today. So, so that's what brings me.
to this county jail. I end up having, so we're, our evidentiary hearing is getting pushed off. So I'm in this, so I'm in one county jail. I'm in originally a NIDA county jail, and then a NIDA county fails to produce me for a hearing. Judge gets pissed off and says, no, bring them to this one. So it brings me to Cayuga, one that's closer, because keep in mind, a NIDA is 45 minutes away from Syracuse. So they bring me to the one that's closer.
I have the evidentiary hearing from there. I have like two or three guys in my unit that are dying and waiting on seeing me because they're, they have the similar cases and now they're trying to do this to everybody. So there's a lot of people that are wondering what's happening with these hearings. Whose side are they going with? I come back with the bad news and now there's like four people, all kinds of, you know, I lose the evidentiary hearing. I get a thing in legal mail that, Hey, we've found with them, whatever. So my lawyer's telling me,
Don't worry too much about this. That obviously is terrible, but don't worry about it. We're going to make a pretty good case at Sentencing that you were running a legal business that happened to start selling these products that were just banned for 16 days before your actual date of arrest. He basically tells me there's this huge case for that.
We get to sentencing and no, I mean in the federal system, you have a guideline range and that's it. That's what they go by. So my guideline range is 87 to 108. I get sentenced to 87 months. Colby's face.
8 years, right? What is 87 months? Yeah, 87 months is seven years and change three months. Yeah. Yeah, so that's pretty tough. And what's crazy is at the time,
He's telling me, don't worry, you're going to get RDAP, you're going to get this drug program, which gets you a year off. Six months if it's going to be in the halfway house, all of these things. That's all true. Now, keep in mind at the same time, right when I am charged federally, literally like a month later, I get raided by New York State, because I'm still running all these stores, you know.
I get rated by New York State claiming tax evasion, that I'm not paying my sales tax. And I was behind, I was completely not paying attention to sales tax. I had Les Lewis for that case. I gave him a check for $187,000 to go perfect with it. But what they did was they basically said, hey, these first couple years where we don't have accurate returns from you, we're going to assume that you were making the same numbers these couple years as you were in the last ones.
You know, which is nuts because, you know, it picked up heavier and heavier as we went. So they said that I underpaid $500,000 in sales tax, which is absolutely not true. I paid them. I did an accurate accounting and paid them. But, uh, what, so when they come in, they're basically saying, Hey, we, we can run this consecutive to your federal time. But they're saying, listen, you just plead guilty to it. And we'll agree to run this concurrent with your federal time.
So I'm thinking, got to plead guilty to it. I'm already in federal custody. No problem, right? So I go plead guilty. Uh, and the judge says, I'm not going to accept this two to four that you've agreed on. No, this is half a million dollars grand Larson. It goes from 3000. The grand Larson could be as little as three. This is a way upper end of this and says, so I ended up getting sentenced to a two to six instead of a two to four. And this matters a lot.
It runs concurrent. You don't get the RDAP if you've got the second charge, right? You don't get the year off. So I had a detainer. So because I had a detainer from New York State, not only did I not get RDAP, because you can go into RDAP if you have a detainer, but I also got no halfway house time. I was done with New York State. All six years had maxed.
In November of 2017, and my release date was May 21st of 18, they did not send the paperwork to remove my detainer till May 2nd or 3rd, like two weeks before I got out. So I had no, and then they offered to put me in for the halfway house. I had three weeks to go. You offered right now, you're going to submit paperwork right now. I have three weeks. I'm going home. So, uh, so I never got any of that. Uh, but as, uh, uh,
During my sentence, they came out with a law, they called it drugs minus two. So drugs minus two was everybody who had a drug case, your sentencing guideline went down by two levels. So you got what that new number was. So I called my attorney asking what was happening. He said, no, they're not going to bring anybody back for it. They're just going to run through and do everybody's. I get legal mail one day saying, hey, your sentence has been reduced to 70 months.
Yeah, real. So, but I knew I had it come in. Everybody knew he had come in unless you were like, uh, unless you had been a career criminal or something else. They had two caveats that you wouldn't get it, but I got it. So, uh, yeah. And you know, we're getting to the end of it there, but listen, the, you know, the, the person that I was in whenever I started this in this County jail, though, the, the person that I was compared to the person I was when I got out after doing
60 plus months in federal prison. As you know, it's completely different. You know, federal prison, it's, it's pretty crazy. Like I say, so I had the minute I got to federal prison and you tell people I got 87 months in your mind, that's a huge number. You saw what he just said 87 months want to throw up, right?
They're like, yeah, whatever. That's go, you'll be out in no time. What are you? That's not worth unpacking. What are you even worried about? Why are you even upset right now? It's like 87 months. So, uh, yeah, it's pretty crazy how some of those people are, but.
Uh, yeah. So I, I end up, I lose the evidentiary hearing. I, I'm sick. I'm sick. They come and get you real quick too. Soon as you get sentenced, we make this huge argument. I stand up. I'm real nervous. I'm bumbling and I don't even remember what the hell I said at my sentencing, but you know, whatever it was, wasn't good enough. So.
I get sentenced to 87 months, you know, we're going through, I go to a couple different little county jails to something in Albany County Jail. Then I go to MDC Brooklyn. This is my first taste of federal prison, right? So this is a MDC Brooklyn is an eight story building with
8,000 inmates in this place. And it's crazy looking. You drive right through downtown Manhattan to go get in this thing. You're on a bus, you're seeing real people doing real things. And you've been in a cement bunker for, you know, a year. And, you know, so I get them to see Brooklyn and it's like, wow, this is pretty crazy. So first night, first night, they're just, you go in, you go see medical, dental, you go see all these different people.
And so I get done with all the medical stuff and they're about to put people in cells and they're just taking people as they come in a line. All right, you two go in here, you two go in here, you two go in here. So there's this, the two in front of me are a black dude with dreads and a white dude who is tattooed from his wrists to his neck with a big red cross on his neck, all tattooed up.
And the black guy with the treads is like, I'm not going in there with him. Are you, are you nuts? You're going to put in the guys like, listen, you're going in there, you two together, you're going in there. He's like, I'm not. And even the other dude's like, no, man, what are you crazy? And this guy in there telling him, listen, go get the lieutenant. I don't care where I'm not selling with him. I don't care. He's getting ready to call. I'll go in with him. So I go in with this white dude. This is my first night in MDC Brooklyn. And this dude is crazy, right? It's, this is a fun, fun,
story, right? So listen, I go in there, this guy is in the middle of serving a 20 year sentence in Oklahoma State Prison. Okay, so he's in Oklahoma State Prison. He's gang related, all this stuff. He stabbed somebody got 20 years. He's he's in all these gangs. He's doing real real prison time with real prison people, right? And he was in the shoe and he used to tell he said, I can get a phone anywhere I'm at. I'm always getting these phones and I get a butt friendly phone. I'm like,
Yeah, yeah, you boof it. And I'm like, you, you move the phone. Oh, yeah, that's nothing I get through the metal detectors, all this stuff. He's in the shoe with a phone. Well, he had had a previous celly that was was gay. And he had they had a phone with a celly but out out on the unit. And they were calling all these like gay chat lines. This guy was in all these they were newspapers at this time, they were calling through all these newspaper ads, they were calling these places and they were extorting people.
So he would go and he would call people and say, say all this crazy stuff to him, flirt with him, this, this and this. Then he would call them back and say, Hey, listen, this is detective Ronald Sanders. You've just used an FCC communications device to solicit a minor. You're in big trouble, blah, blah, blah. And he would get people to pay him money and send money to people out on the streets.
So crazy. So they're doing this. He's in the shoe. He's doing this. He's calling this guy. Well, he gets a guy from Connecticut who is gay. He goes through the whole rigmarole with him and the guy is gay and is scared to death that his mom is going to find out that his that's his one big thing cannot find out that I am gay and it's huge. So he's calling him. He's extorting this dude. He got this dude to send $25,000 cash in a shoe box to his girlfriend.
He has got this guy sending him cash all the time telling him you're going to, I'm telling you, you're going to go to jail. You're going to be busted, blah, blah, blah. They got like $300,000 from this guy whose parents are loaded. Who's living in Connecticut.
And he leaves the shoe and he leaves it to this other guy and tells him, give me a piece of the money that you get. You're going to pay me for what happens, but I'm going to leave this guy to you. You just introduce yourself as my supervisor. Keep it up. Trust me, this guy's good. He's going to send money, blah, blah, blah.
So he does all that. Uh, he leaves the shoe. The next guy gets on the guy on the phone with the guy, tells him all this crazy stuff. And the guy's not telling him he's not going to get a little bit of money. Adam's trying, trying not to give him money anymore. He says, I'm on your street right now. I'm coming to your house. You're going to jail today. Hangs up on him. So he's trying to play tough with the guy. The guy goes upstairs and off himself. Oh my God. Cause he did not. He couldn't have his mom know.
And so they come in, they find the whole story, they're getting records, this could find out that somebody is in a state prison and doing this. So now it's federal, they come in there, there he's being brought to court in Connecticut to answer for this. Right.
That's this guy's story. This is my first night in. This is this guy's story. Wow. Okay. This is the kind of people we're going to hang with. All right. I guess. And he's doing all these other things too. He's doing, he was telling me his stories from the streets before he killed somebody and went to jail. He was doing some crazy stuff that was fun. He did a bunch of rental insurance scams. He would like,
He completely tattooed tattooed from here. I mean this guy you take one look at him and this guy's like he was good on the phone AB or something crazy. Yeah, he's obviously very charismatic on the phone I guess right so but he's doing everything on the streets. His story is just great. His whole life is just crazy Do rental insurance scams. He he'd scammed his own girlfriend robbed his own house and
had her claim it on the rental insurance and told her after. Yeah, but I got us money, right? Yeah. Who hasn't done that one? Yeah. Oh yeah. So he's, that gives me a view of what I'm in for. Right. And then to make it even crazier. So that's the first night. Now you go upstairs to your unit. So once you pass your medical, everything, you go up to your unit. So I go up to the seventh floor, literally second day.
And I go up to the seventh floor and right when I get there, when you get into a unit, people are kind of wondering, what are you all about? Especially when you're like a guy like me, they want to know if you're at Chomo. There are all kinds of different stuff. They want to know what's your case? What are you doing here? What's up? They're asking all this stuff. And so I'm telling, my case is a little rare. It's not often to see people that have a similar case to mine.
So this guy, a young guy comes right to me. Hey, I heard you've got a, you know, an AM two to a one case. And I said, yeah, yeah. So he starts asking me some questions and really he's originally, he's asking me so he can, you know, cause people will send them over, Hey, see if that guy's really here for that. Ask him some questions. See if that's, you know, if his story matches up, if that's right. So originally it's just that. But then once he realizes that's what I'm there for, he is doing the same thing. He has an evidentiary hearing.
and this poor guy. So mine was 8,000 grams. His case is like 250,000 grams. It's like, I'm, I'm, I'm telling him, he's like, so what happened? I tell him the whole story of the evidentiary hearing and, and, and I'm like, yeah, no, you know, and I lost and he's doing the math on his, like, you know, carry the right fuck, like, you know, you know, not good.
Crazy number and so you know I depressed him for a little bit but you know so he kind of heard my story and he's like yeah you know Ross Albright's here and I go the the guy from Silk Road and he's like yeah so I'm like oh sweet so we sit down with him play a little cards now Ross was
His, his attorneys were very smart. They told them, do not discuss your case with anyone, anytime, any reason ever. You know, so me not knowing he's already told everybody this and made this very clear. So I, you know, I'm sitting down playing cards. So I want to know, is this a girl guy? Let me ask him some questions. So, uh, so I asked him about that and, uh, you know, what was going on. He's like, listen, my, you know, in front of everyone, my lawyer said not to discuss my case at all. All right.
I just, that was kind of crazy. It's you, you know, this is a guy who's in the national media. They're trying to give this guy a life sentence, which they did. And, you know, here he is in the same unit as me. So it's like a, a wake up to jail. And this guy had double bunked. Everybody's double bunked, but him, his top bunk is full of books, the whole thing all the way. So I'm like, great. I literally, I, I would use the joke with them that I got to have my library card kind of daily, you know, and I just go and borrow books.
In the same unit as him for a couple of weeks. Uh, you know, but that just lets you know, that's like a prequel to what you're about to see here. So I go from MDC Brooklyn to, uh, where did we stop? Cannon. And you don't know where you're going. And all of a sudden bus stops at Allenwood. Allenwood is a complex has a penitentiary medium and a low. So stops there. Boom. I'm getting off. I'm going to the medium. All right.
So I go to Allenwood medium, first night I'm there, I go up there, sign you a unit, and I'm on my way to the unit. I run into this guy, Tim, that I was in the county jail with. Now this guy is, he's, this guy's nuts, right? This guy is crazy. Like,
White power racist kind of guy. He has a tattoo going all down his arm with a bunch of grenades and it says six million more on his arm. So this guy is a crazy lunatic, right? But it's crazy that I see him because when I was in, so I was originally in a night of County jail and that's where I met him. So I don't know this guy from a hole in the wall. I met him there.
Well, I had not been produced for a hearing, so I go over to Cayuga County Jail. When I'm in Cayuga County Jail, I'm with two co-defendants of his. One of them, guy's name is Terry,
he's literally going to trial while I'm there. And Tim is taking the stand in his trial against him. Right. He's literally got like all the stuff from it. He's got witness lists, all this stuff, because you can't really call somebody out like that and not be able to, he's like, look, he's on all these crazy facts. And so when you're on your way to go to federal prison, you're hearing all this stuff about you better have your paperwork straight and you need your sentencing minutes and you're this and that.
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I know this guy testified against somebody else. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? So he's very weird because he's he knows I went to Cayuga County jail. He knew the whole story. And he's like, hey, what's up, man? You need anything? I'm gonna talk to the store guy in your unit all this. He's happy to help. And he's like, yeah, you know, so you're you're on a 10 minute move. So I got to keep going. I got to keep it moving. And so I'm just talking to him briefly. And he's like, come out to the yard tomorrow. We got to we got to walk the track together. We got to talk, you know,
And so you're not going to say, yeah, that's his worry, you know, and he's got to, he, cause you never know that bus shows up who's on it. They know my dirty little secret that I've been, you know, cooperating on somebody, whatever else. And so I'm like, damn, man. And this is nuts because I get to my unit and he is, you know, in jail, there's, you know, you got your car. So I am a white guy from upstate New York. So my car's eight guys on the compound, white guys from upstate New York. It's not, it's not a lot and he's running the car.
And so, wow. Okay. So that's pretty crazy. Nobody knows. Absolutely. Nobody knows. And I'm getting there. That's, you know, first of all, I don't want to fight this guy's nuts. This guy's jacked up. He's crazy. And I'm going,
Wow, this is a crazy predicament. So long story short, I never say anything. I don't tell nobody about this guy. I don't give a shit that I'm getting there. This is none of my business. Does he ever address it to you? Like, did you hear something? When we go and we walk the yard, he's asking me questions, trying to pry who you're with, all that. Now, I'm not telling him I know because I don't even want to get into that.
He asked me flat out, was Terry there? Because he took the stand against Terry. And so he's asked flat out, was Terry there? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, he was there. And, you know, but no, he never, you know, that was it. Somebody else was in his case. So I knew a few people in common.
And, uh, you know, these guys were all not the, you know, he's one of the, he's doing crazy stuff, but, uh, so I get to the unit at the medium and the medium is a crazy deal. So the first speech you get somebody, whoever's in the unit that come up to you, you gotta get your paperwork. These guys were really on that.
want to know who's who and they tell you basically you got to get your sentencing minutes because in the federal system you have a guideline range and if the judge goes above or below that guideline range he has to state for the reason for the record why he went above or below that guideline range so they tell me you got to get your sentencing minutes in it's got to come straight from your lawyer get it get it sent in here and when you see your name on the sign for legal mail you go get somebody they'll go pick it up
So that's what I do. I tell them, Hey, legal miles here. I stuff's here. So, and they're telling me, um, I knew how to play pinnacle. So there's very few guys that I could relate to in this unit, but Vinny Gia Tino's there. Vinny is a, uh, Vinny's, uh, God, she's middle late sixties old, uh, mob related guy, five life sentences killed 60 people. Okay.
This guy killed 60 people you and what's funny is at the time I'm there There's a book going around the unit called the butcher and it's about his co-defendant Tommy karate who's in Allenwood penitentiary and him
And, uh, so I get there. I know how to play pinnacle. He's like, yeah, come there. You know, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get, as soon as you get the paperwork in, as soon as I do, you're like six man cells. I get right in a two man cell. My celly is a guy called Johnny B, another, uh, related guy. He's a fun as hell. But so me, Johnny B, Vinny, we're playing pinnacle every day. That's all Vinny wants to do. It's got five life sentences. He's got nothing better to do. He got away from the penitentiary. His goal is to,
Be left the fuck alone and play pinnacle every day and let this time pass. Right. And so he's sort of a jail mentor to me at this time. So, oh, so this is like a, a lesson and Hey, this is what it's going to be. Right. Now at the same time, my personal life is going to shit. Cause now I've been in jail a little over a year and my wife at the time had come to see me a few times, but, uh,
You know, you knew that was coming to answer on the phone less and less, you know, some things are coming. So she's out. And then like a few days after I get to the medium, I get on the phone with my buddy Jay and he's like, yeah, yeah, she's pregnant. You know, pregnant already. That's all great. Here we go. Right. So you got that sick feeling, but that kind of motivates you. I'm doing tons of pushups. I'm getting in shape. I was a fat ass when I went in and I'm, you know, I'm doing great. Uh, you know, letting that, you know, obviously that's sickening, but you're letting that motivate you, you know? So, uh,
So I had about a year of this right and Vinny was just the entertainment for you tried to get me not to go over to the low. He's got like a review every year.
Vinny is literally, this guy is one of the most entertaining people I've ever seen. I would ask him, he's, you got to get comfortable with somebody. I learned very early. You don't ask somebody how much time you got. The first time I go to this guy, this guy's telling me he's from Utica. Yeah, my case is from Utica too. He's close behind me. I'm like, yeah, how much time you got? He's like life plus 88. Oh,
You're like foot in mouth. What you learn very early. Probably should stop asking that question. And then I'm coming there with poor me. I got 87 months. These people are hearing 87 and it sounds like a vacation to them. They're like, go stand in a corner on your head. Yeah, you'll just be over for, you know, what are you doing? Vinny always talk to, what are you, what are you doing? You know, it'd be over before you know it. Forget about her. Forget about all that stuff. You're fine. Sit right here. We'll play pinnacle. You're fine.
That was Vinny's attitude towards everything.
So I got comfortable with Vinny and I would ask him questions like, what would you do if they let you out? You all of a sudden got out tomorrow. What would you do? And most people would tell you some sort of life plan. He's like, oh, a few people would be real scared of that. And I tell you right now, he's like, there's a couple of people. He's like, there's a couple of people. I'll be at the door with a shotgun. And as a matter of fact, guy right now owes me money. And I tell you, you don't want to see me. I'll tell you that much, you know? And he was, he was just very matter of fact.
Remember when I first got there, I go up to his cell and he would point, you see this bed right here. I'm going to die in that bed right there. Right. So don't fuck around. I don't need, you know, I came here to have the piece from the politics that go on over there, but I'm not going to be disturbed in this. It's going to be a problem. I don't know. This is it.
So that's just the kind he was, but he was, he was the right. So I tell you, the book's going around the unit. And so he's like, I said, Hey, I heard there's a book going around about you. And he's like, yeah, did you read it yet? I'm like, no, but I will, you know, so now I'm reading the book about a guy who is a serial killer for all intents and purposes, basically working in the cell with him. Is this your celly? No, but there's only three Italians there. So I'm selling with Johnny B who's the other guy playing pinnacle with us. There's only three Italian Vicarina is the other Italian guy that's there.
Yeah. So Vicarina is the other guys there. Vic is old, like almost like almost wheelchair old. And there's eight Italian guys on the whole compound. These guys keep to themselves. Now by no means am I like in with the Italian guys, but I'm like hanging with them and playing pinnacle with them every day. So I'm not really like a part of their car or their group, but there's very little people that will come in. And literally the fact that I knew how to play pinnacle,
and plus had money to gamble. Vinny's the best pinnacle player I've ever played against in my life. I probably lost $500 this guy. We played for quarters and he smoked me. I literally got bottom something from the store every week bottom something like, so he loved me. It's, it's, it's, it's his little entertainment. He's got five life sentences. He's nothing happening for him. So I'm what's happening for him at that time.
So, uh, so yeah, I, so I'm talking to them every night. It's literally where we're playing. I worked at Unicor. So, uh, I go to Unicor as soon as I find out I can do, uh, Excel spreadsheets and stuff. I'm in the business office at Unicor and as soon as I get out, it's pinnacle rest of the night all the way to 10 o'clock count. And, uh, and you know, I, everything in between, I literally cooked with these guys. Vinny was the best cook I ever seen best. This guy's already been in 25 years. I mean, it's, uh,
His his story is absolutely crazy. He's he's pre 87 law. He's he's five life sentences. So yeah, so, man, Vinnie would all these Italian guys, they got nicknames, right? Like his nickname was Kojak.
And, uh, and so, uh, I said, I said, Hey, why'd they call you Kojak? And he's like, cause I always get my guy, you know, he's like, just wait, cause I always get my guy, you know? And I said, well, how come, how come they don't call you a Kojak in here? You know, like everybody else still has whatever their street name was. They're still being called that in here. And he leans over and he goes, they're still looking for that guy. Just the.
Tells you the kind of guy that he is. He's just just a riot So yeah, the medium is a little different atmosphere Tough to be in because you're locked in every night a lot of lock-ins one thing happens. You're done. I am My year comes up. I'm dying to get over to the low, you know Why did they send you to a medium to begin with? I had a I had an assault this this kid Matt Pritchard
This kid lived next door to my sister. My sister was being an asshole, being loud as hell, but just a terrible neighbor. And he pushed in her door. My mom's there and he pushed my sister, spit my mom's face like this kid did some crazy. So I was drunk, leaving a bar early twenties. All I did was hang out in bars. I was drunk, leaving a bar and I had a little bat that I carried in the car and I gave him 17 staples in the back of his head. You know, I did actually plead guilty to a felony for that one. That was a rough one.
That was early life before all this craziness, you know, but yeah, I gave him 17 staples. So that charge, I had a detainer that booster points up. So yeah, so I had an, and I had, I think 15 points, I think it's fit 14, you go to the low, I had like one or two too many, I was really close on the line. I came in with so
And and because of a detainer time put you at the yeah, but then the detainer when the detainer came off, I was like, I think I have one or zero. But I still didn't matter like like every time I get the guy when I went to the meeting every time you talk to a counselor, they'd be like, why are you here? Oh, yeah, yeah, you're gonna be here for a little bit. I was there for like three years as soon as I got to 20. They're like, we got to get you out of here. Yeah, I didn't want to leave when I want to leave.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I didn't want to leave because you know very nerve-racking well because everybody talks everybody goes to low and it's open Bay and then they come back They're like bro. It's socked because it's it's loud. Yeah, they tell you there's 600 chumos on that yard. There's 1200 people There's 600 chumas venue. Tell me all the time. You don't want to go over to you'll be right back What are you nuts? There's 600 chumos on that yard. They're all rats walking around. There's just nuts. You tell me it's crazy stuff this is the thing like
I don't I didn't care about the Trump like they they keep to themselves. I'm saying like, yeah, you're never gonna be bothered by ever. There's no badass Chomo. Yes. No. Yeah, I actually I take that back. There was a guy who was like a former Marine and he beat the shit out of multiple people because guys he didn't want he didn't want to be called a Chomo. And guys every once you get somebody fuck you you fuck anybody came back all the what you're gonna fuck it and he beat the tar out of him. He actually beat so many guys asses eventually they shipped him.
Other than that, though, and that was because people were attacking him or yelling at him or calling him names or being disrespectful. And other than that, they keep themselves and and so that so they didn't bother me because and they didn't go in the TV rooms like they were excluded. No rights as you would call it. They have no rights to do nothing. You go away. And I say half out of the 1800 inmates to the really between 1800 to 2000 inmates at the low. Half had charges by the time I know when I first got there, I think it was like
One third they keep arresting these guys. So eventually in a lot of people were you would you would find out like you because you kind of knew who they were and you were like if you do the numbers like it's not it's not but maybe 20 25% maybe 30% but you start to realize like no wait a minute. This guy is here for a drug case, but he has a previous charge.
You see what I'm saying? Like they had previous charges. They would be like, yo, bro, I'm good. I'm here for this. And they'd be like, oh, okay. And then if you started doing the number, you'd go, you shouldn't be here at all. And then you realize, oh, wait a minute, you had another charge from the state or you had a charge before. This is your second time here. That kind of stuff would
You'd find it, but yeah, it ended by the time I was done. I'd say it was probably half. Yeah, but it was, it was half an hour. What they didn't bother me. What bothered me was it was so one, I didn't like not having a cell door closing the door because it was quiet and it was so loud all the time. It was always loud. At least in the medium, you got to walk in your door, close your door and it was quiet.
I mean, is that, is that your? Oh yeah. And it had to be awkward. So if I wanted to come by, it was awkward for me to come by yourself. But in the low, it's just, you're walking right by anyway. So you could just come strike up a conversation, any jerk off anytime, strike up a conversation. You're trying to read a book or do something different. But you said, so did you, so when you got to the year and you went to the low, did you try and stay in the medium? No, no. So
Alan Wood medium didn't have weights. I think Alan Wood pen is one of the only pens that still has weights. The medium didn't have weight. Somebody threw a weight through a window. They took them from there in the low head weights. And when I went to jail, like I said, I was doing, I was doing pills when I first went to jail. I, uh, I was a fat ass. I didn't care about health at all. I, uh, I read a great book, uh, Timothy Ferris, the, the four hour work week from Timothy Ferris. Then he wrote another book called the four hour body. And it's all about just,
Hacks on your body. So I read this thing. I increased my bench press. I was, I was mentioned 320 when I got to Allenwood low. I was, uh, so I wanted the weights. I wanted to get over. It was all about when I get out and there's something about, uh, your wife leaving you when you're in there to something about that. Yeah, just that's that's sitting on your shoulder. That's great for you to have. You need a chip on your shoulder to make you go out there and kick ass. And that was sort of mine. And, uh,
Yeah, and funny story about that. So then I go to the low and my buddy Jay is one of my best friends in the world. I'm talking to him all the time. And I call him and one of my ex wives, best friends, she was best friends with this girl for years is at Jay's house because his girlfriend and her very good friends.
So he says, hey, you want to talk to Katie? I get on the phone with her. We kind of go back and forth a few times. I get her number. I start calling her, start getting a little crazy. You got the emails I'm sending, just getting a little crazier and crazier. She used to be one of my ex-wife's best friends, and we're still together today. And so she was with me the whole rest of the time in the low, was great, sending in all kinds of stuff, bringing my kids to see me, was a great person to me.
And, uh, you know, that makes you feel good ship wise too. Yeah. Upgraded. She's so much of a better person. Everything about it is just, you know, that part of it's crazy. But, uh, yeah, the, the low is a different world and people don't realize this. It's just crazy. I mean, you're only going over in a little fan. I mean, you can see the place and I get my stuff, put it in a bag and drive over to this little place, but it's you change a whole world. I tell people that about like when you go to the shoe.
You think of a month's gone by it's you think of how much has happened to you, but basically just go lock yourself in the bathroom for 30 days. That's what I've done. I haven't left these four walls for 30 days. It's
It's a whole different world than your living world becomes that that that prison like there's there gets to a point where it's almost like nothing else exists other than like it's everybody you communicate everybody well occurs you're still communicating with people on the outside but for the most part like your whole world is in there I know exactly it's insane.
Yeah, and you're like, this is my life. It is. It's different the day you're going there. It's like you just took up and moved and you're going to start a new job and a new life and new people. And you just left the old life behind. And so when I, when I go over to the low, I'm bringing messages from Vinny. So Vinny writes down messages. They know somebody's there. I know I'm looking for a dude, Paulie, when I get there.
So I get there. So Paulie is who I'm looking for when I get there. First day, I'm going to the chow hall and I hear this high pitched, John, it's this guy Kwan, very good guy. He's from Rome, New York. There are, I have met three people ever in federal prison that were from Rome, New York. Not very common.
And I happen to have known this guy for a long time. He's just there for random drug, drug charge, but, uh, as weird as it is, he's there. He's like running the whole blood car in this low. There's 600 Jomo's. There's not a lot of people that are, that I'm going to end up hanging out with. And my first, the first person that I know, which is very weird for me to know somebody in here, like if you came from a bigger city, you'd know a bunch of people. There's a lot of people that you'd run in contact with. I don't know anybody that wasn't expecting to know anybody.
So that's crazy. So I asked him, Hey, I got to find a poly. I got a, I got a message from him from next door. So the guy goes and meets me on the next move and that's how I get introduced to him. So I give them the message and he calls over a guy that's in my unit. Hey, this guy's in your unit. He just got here from next door and make sure he gets whatever he needs, all that kind of stuff. But I got to meet the very few, uh, the good guys that are there from, uh,
That are there in the low and the low was.
It's a different animal. It takes some getting used to. There's no TV rooms. The medium I was in there's there's not even TV rooms. There's TVs in the center of the units. Yeah, that's it. Like you get to the low and I would tell people it's all time. So you're you're at the lowest bunch of TVs on the wall and you got a radio and you're tuning into 103 is that TV 1061 is that TV and you have a headset in yours. It's a room full of TVs and you just pull out a plastic chair and you're watching TV at the medium. There were no TV rooms at the low. There were TV, right?
All right. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. That's what it was here. So at the low, there's it's weird to get used to because you go in there and you're like, okay, this wasn't there. It's kind of crazy. I could just come in here and watch any show and TVs are very controlled. Somebody has every TV. You're not going to go in there. You're not going to go, Hey, let me just throw this on. No, that's not happening. You're you got to kind of get in wherever somebody who has interest. If you like football, I'll go watch football with you, whatever it is.
So, uh, yeah. And the TV rooms are just, they're nuts. People are crazy. Uh, so, uh, yeah, this is so funny. This guy, uh, so at the low, uh, John Carnegie, uh, he's just as John's this great guy. John is actually pre 1987 law. Uh, so he's, he's, he's got parole coming up.
He's he's been there. He's been in prison so long. He's got parole coming up. He would tell you he went from the pen to the medium to low. You go out to the yard and there's a landfill right there and it's full. It's not even used anymore. And he's like, yeah, you see that? That was a lawn when I got here. That was they built the whole landfall, filled the whole thing over the years, bringing trash, bringing trash, filled it, sealed it and don't even use it anymore. I've been watching that since that was that was a flat lawn when I got here.
You're like, wow, okay. Yeah. So, so John's pre 87 law, his co defendant is Jean Gotti.
And he is allegedly the guy that actually shot Paul Castellano that famous Sparks steakhouse shooting. He is allegedly and it's in a bunch of books and yeah, there was, I think three shooters. It was the driver and Paul Castellano and he's allegedly one of these guys. So when I tell you this guy, you know, all these Italian guys that got something going on, but this guy's like literally a legend. It's kind of crazy. So one of the guy, one of the other guys was in the low with me.
He was probably in his 60s, gray hair, short, stocky guy. I can't remember his name, but everybody was saying the same thing. They were saying like he was one of the shooters. They all put on the Russian hat, and he was supposedly one of the shooters. He would never say that, but that was like the rumor.
Yeah. Oh no. You would never ask him that, but he is, you know, he carried himself like that. You could tell this was a guy who's been a legend his whole life. He's a John Gotti, you know, Jean Gotti is his co-defendant. John Gotti is really tight with him. He's, you know, this guy's got stories. Yeah. Yeah. But Pete, what's weird is so like John's, you know, 74, whatever he is, right? Like he was, he was old at the time and you know, you'd think somebody old and not able to defend himself. Nobody would ever think of even looking at this guy sideways just cause he just carried that kind of respect.
There was I was gonna say I was also locked up with two of the guys that were Gosh, what is the the it was there's a movie Donnie Brasco Yeah, two of the guys that got taken down right dot by the Donnie Brasco thing were in the medium and the show the Donnie Brasco would come on TV and and people would be like, hey
Hey, Paul here. Hey, Jimmy. Hey, they got Johnny Brasco. And these guys would go, dad, they'd start screaming and hollering. I mean, sorry. Yeah, no. Well, listen, that gives me a flashback. So when I was at the medium, my my guy, God, am I drawing a blank on his name right now?
Uh, Vinny. So Vinny would do the same exact thing. He was like part of the Lufthansa heist. So like he was like involved in that somehow. And, uh, he would do the same thing. Uh, this, this somebody, they may look good in the movie. He was a rat. He wasn't this tough guy. They make them look in the movie and he didn't like any of that shit. He was, he was real furious about that stuff. All they'd have a real wake up. He's,
Vinny is rooting for anarchy. He wants like the world to end in the craziest way. He's rooting for something to be so bad that the United States government can't hold him anymore. Like he's looking for craziness in life. And, and what's crazy is so after Johnny B left my next cell, he started to backtrack to the previous prison. But after Johnny B left,
I got John Petrocelli. So John Petrocelli was an Italian guy, real cool guy, 45 years old. He had, oh God, so John had six code defendants. They had a racketeering case and there was a homicide in the racketeering case.
John was actually the one that stabbed the guy. Well, so the racketeering case, if you have a racketeering case with a homicide, it's mandatory life. They came and offered them 20 years, offered them all 20 years. But with these guys, how it has to be is you all have to take the deal or nobody can. And people don't understand that because when you allocute, you say, yes, I did
stab Bob, but I have to say that, Hey, I did with you stab Bob, right? You have to like, you have to implicate somebody else. So these guys can't, they all take a plea or nobody does. So everybody wanted it, but one holdout.
They don't
so down and he just felt like a burden on everybody. He had such great people, great family coming in, doing all this stuff for him. And he's like, all I'm ever going to be is a burden to people. That's all I'm ever going to do. So you see those people, that's the life you're living there. And there's 200 lifers at Allenwood medium. There's 200 of these guys there. Then you get to the low. There's none of that. There's none of the mediums. There's people going home all the time.
And I don't know what the max sentence is, but it's not a lot. There's not a lot of people sitting there with still 18, 20 years left to go on their sentence when you get to these lows. At the low, I would say there were a few people that had those outrageous sentences, but only, and we were talking about 2000, there's a couple and they're old.
Yeah, like, because they start lowering your points when you get to be 7075. They're like, yeah, what's this guy gonna do? 20 more years to go. And he's 75. He's dying here. And he's not climbing two fences and getting through the barbed wire. And he's not and he's not stabbing. He's not hurting anybody. Like, come on, like to get him out of the medium. Let's we we need that cell for somebody who's truly going to be a problem.
So I'd say, yeah, it's very, very few, but most people, like, I think the average lot sentence at the medium was probably in the 20s, probably 15 to 20. And at the low, it was probably seven to 10. Yeah, it's way low in your side to be pretty high though, right? Like when you got there, because you were just gotten under the 20 to go, right? It was still
I still have 20 to go. That's crazy because when you get there, you're telling people 20 years and you're around a bunch of people that are averaging. What's worse is when you go to the medium and you're sitting at a table at the medium, you don't get to complain at all because the moment you're sitting there like, I got 26 years for a white collar crime and you're thinking you're going to get a little sympathy because when I first got there, I'm complaining.
Like I realized right away, probably within a month or two, but my cut my cousin said stop complaining. Like nobody wants to fucking hear your your complaining. You see that guy over there? He's gonna die in here. See that guy? And that's what happened. I was at a table like the first couple of days and they were like, Oh, what do you hear for? Because they're trying to figure out if you're a show or not. Right. And I'm like, oh, a bank fraud. I'm like, yeah, I got fucking 26 years for bank fraud. And one guy's got like,
He's got like 45 years and then this guy is got, you know, whatever, you know, 60 years and this guy's telling me, yeah, I'm going to die in here. I'm leaving here in a box and you realize like fuck like this sucks. I'm saying like you guys are this is horrible. So I and like I said, I
A few weeks later, I was with my cousin who was locked up and he was like, Yeah, listen, you need to stop fucking complaining because nobody gives a shit about your he was nice about it. But nobody cares about your your your time you're you're gonna leave here. A lot of these guys aren't leaving here. And there's a lot of guys there that just aren't leaving all even in like a box.
Yep. And they're all trying to have that level of bravado. Like they don't care, but inside, you know, it's, you know, you know that, you know, inside, you're like, Oh jeez. And you know, like the movies make it look crazy. Right. So like, she's a lot like bank robber guys. You know, you're, you're in a movie, they go in, they fire one off into the ceiling just to let them know they mean business. Then they go rob the bank. Yeah. That's like an enhancement. That's like 60 years on your side. That just changed you possibly getting a 10 years to 25 years.
What if the difference between having a note
Having a gun three years ten years three years and doing this to show him you have a gun is ten. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I actually met somebody who only got three my guy Ivan Ivan was nuts and he he was just all messed up on drugs Robbed one bank got caught and he went in he slipped bank tell her a note and then he looks at her goes. I'm sorry
She tells the story to him. He apologized to me. He's very nice about it. He was shaking. He said, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry about this. So you get the light ones. But then, yeah, that's what happens. People see it on TV. You're doing all the stuff. You see somebody do it. You think it's a great idea. You go into a bank, realize you discharge a firearm in the bank. You're getting enhancements, adding 20, 30 years on your sentence. And you run into those guys. That's real. People do that. They're in there going, you're like, wow, that's
It's, it's pretty common and it's pretty crazy when you're thrust into that and you're in my situation and you think 87 months, Jesus, just for, you know, this was legal 16 days. Everybody justifies whatever the hell you did to yourself, you know, that this is, I've, I've been wrong. This is crazy. I don't belong here. And, uh, it's nice to get that rude awakening of like, Hey, listen, man, what are you crying about? All these guys are, and when you see the ones that aren't leaving, that'll make you realize it.
So yeah, the low is much better than that. I found the weights, the moves, moves always happened, you know, 10 minute moves were clockwork in the medium. It was, you'd have a move, not go for three hours. You didn't know why you still don't know why it just moved. Didn't happen for three hours. You know, it's funny. You know what moves are, right?
I'm assuming you're like moving from yourselves to like the next unit or outside or something. I don't know. Right. Yeah. Well, I feel like I've explained this to him. Yeah. So like, like if you have, let's say in Coleman, you had three units, three big buildings, there's four units in each building. So, but there's three, let's say how, let's say a big apartment complex.
And but the the rec yard is across the compound maybe maybe a hundred yards or or two hundred yards across so you have to walk there you believe your building and you have to walk the record or you have to walk to the education or you have to walk to unicorn right so what happens is the compounds close like the doors locked you can't get out.
But once an hour for 10 minutes, they unlock the door and then they announce it and they'll go 10 minute move 10 minute news move and the CEO will open the door for 10 minutes. And so everybody all these buildings they flood people flood out of them and they're they're going this way and this way and this way and this way and you got 10 minutes because in 10 minutes, they're gonna be like or closing compound closing compound and they close the compound. If you're if they close that door and you're still on the compound, then they can they don't always get typically give you a shot, but they'll yell at you.
But don't lock the door and then you're having a bang on the door to let get the guard to open it up and they might open it up and be like, what are you doing? So I'm saying and then they might write your shot. Like now you were on the compound was closed and you were outside the door and they'll write you a shot. You can lose privileges, whatever. But yeah, you have 10 minutes. So it's a it's a controlled movements. Yeah. And this is an announcement that we're hurting these cattle. We're getting everybody to where they have to go and you have to get everybody back from places. So the last move is they'll announce this is the last move. So if you're on the yard, you know,
You better get back for this one. Yeah, because there's nothing you're not out here anymore. It's not a Yeah, listen, I'll tell you something. That was funny. There was a guy that was a he was a Joe. I want to say was I what I shouldn't say that I don't know. I think he was and this was that Coleman and it was almost positive. I'm 90% sure he was Joe.
He had nowhere to go, right? Like he was anyway, I think he was going like to Florida and at Florida at the time, they didn't give them halfway house. So it happened though, in Florida, the halfway house is what now they make them do it. Now they have to give it to him. But they called him to R&D to leave and he doesn't show up.
And they called him and called they called him for hours. Finally, they closed. They do a total recall. Everybody has to go back to the unit and they found him hiding on the rec yard because he had nowhere to go. He's like, I want to stay here when you release me. I have no money. You guys are basically like there's nobody even picking me up. You know, you guys are giving me a bus ticket like to a place to the middle of Chicago where I have nowhere to stay like I'm just coming back.
And he had to drag him out, drive him to the bus thing, put him on a bus, go, you know, nowhere to go like that. That's a weird. That reminds you of Shawshank. You know, the guy in Shawshank hangs himself because he just didn't know how to deal real life. It does. But at least he got on the bus. You know, like it's it's it's funny. I mean, it's it's sad, but it's funny. I guess it would be
I don't know if it's sad or funny because it's a show but if it was but I can imagine a regular guy who's been locked up for 10 15 years and he has nowhere to go and some of those guys, you know 20 30 years like they've everybody's died giving up on them, you know, you know, we talked about this beforehand. People give up on you, you know, they give up on you you get there and like like we had mentioned that
That you really figure out like you've got you've got your group of 20 people that you're surrounded by on the street when you had money and you were a big shot and you would have said we're all got an amazing group of friends. I got you know, all these people that love me that I'm we're good friends. We're good buddies call these guys at any time they would show up and help me move they do anything help me change a tire pick me up like these are good buddies. We always hang out. We go to barbecues. We're good friends and then you go to prison.
And you realize that three of those guys were friends if you're probably lucky if you get three and add those three if they stick with you for the six years where they still answer your phone call at the end of the six years.
I mean, friends, not family, but you're probably doing pretty good if two or three of those guys. Yeah. And not a lot of people had that. And that was one of the worst things about seeing the Chomos too. These guys have bigger circles than anyone you know, everybody supporting them. And you're like, it makes you hate your people even worse. Cause you're like, Oh God, this guy's, you know, a bunch of kids and all everybody is, he's got a bunch of friends and you know, people are writing them, sending them money.
I'm here living like a scumbag. I got nothing and this guy's doing that. I tell people all the time. It's like it really going to jail makes you realize what would happen if you died. It makes you realize that what would have happened if I would have died on that day instead of just gone to jail. If I had died same thing. I got removed.
And some people moved on some people, you know, I know the ones that would have grieved and I know the ones like my ex wife who would have whatever he's gonna keep going. I mentioned this before when people are talking about their wife or wives. I've been like, well, you know, you're typically the only people and I'm not saying because I who called me. I mean, somebody sent me a text or yelled at me for this. Typically,
And actually that's not okay. They saw a short they didn't hear the whole thing the person that can't called me and this is a horrible thing to say hopefully they don't see it because it actually applies to them but they would be upset with me but it's true is that the guy the guys I know right during the 13 years the guys that went into prison.
Now, if it was only a couple of years, maybe you have a 50-50 chance that your wife's going to stick around for a couple of years. Maybe she can hang. If she really was in love with you and cares about you and you have kids, there's probably a 50-50 chance she's going to hang around. But let's say you got 10 years. Unless you went to prison and you've got $10 million real estate and you can keep her in the same lifestyle as when you went in,
There's about a 99% chance she's leaving. Like if you were the sole, you were the breadwinner and she had a little part-time job and now she has to go get a full-time job and raise a kid without you and you can't provide for it. She's got to go move into a two-bedroom and get help from her friends and and like you're done. The marriage is over. You're going to be gone for a minimum of six to seven years. The relationship is one-sided now. There's nothing you can do. You're calling one time a day.
For 10 minutes and all you can do is say, can you look this up for me on the internet? Can you mail me a book? Can you tell so-and-so such as I like it's a total one-sided relationship. Maybe you can put your son on the phone and your wife you read the email and you can say, why'd you get into a fight with a kid? Well, you can't do that. You have to do this. So you're just a complainer. You're just give me give me give me it's completely one-sided. So that ruins the relationship.
The moment she doesn't answer a phone on a Friday night, the next day, it's a user those guys on Saturday morning. Where were you? Why didn't you answer the phone? That's horrible. So those relationships are done. But the only people that maintain their marriages were people that had $10-20 million when they came into prison were able to keep their wife in the lifestyle they were accustomed to and those wives typically stayed.
Other than that, those relationships were were doomed. They were just over they were done. And I had met a guy that had been to federal prison before when I first got locked up. This is funny. I think I've told this story before. And but you'll you'll get this this guy what this guy did was I was in a I was being held in a private like a geo or so like a private facility. Um,
and I was there with him he was my celly and every day he was getting a letter or two and he'd open it up and he'd see this is when you get photos sent in he'd see the photos and he'd go and he tear them up and throw them away and he and I mean I'm sitting there in the cell and he'd be like who's I go
Did you get a letter? Get a letter? What's going on? And you go, yeah, it's my ex girlfriend. And I go, Oh, wow, bro. She's beautiful. You're lucky. That's a he got nice of my ex girlfriend. He'd be like, Yeah, thanks. He was she was very pretty. He tear him up and throw him away. And then he take the thing and he throw it away. And I and this went on. I was there for two weeks. He's getting at least one or two letters a day. And I went for this chick is fucking she is writing like every day. He's Yeah, I know. I know. She's upset. I was like, I was like, why? He said, well,
We've been dating for about four years. He's I've been in prison before I did like five years before got out. He said I actually was had a regular job. He said and I was driving a vehicle with a buddy of mine and I knew he was we were driving drugs. He's like, I don't know why I wasn't really involved in the drug thing, but I did drive him is we got pulled over the drugs are in my car. He said we got in trouble. We both got indicted whatever.
He said and I played guilty and I'm getting three years and that was it like he had three years it was something along those lines where he was getting like a mandatory maybe he had a gun in the car so I forget what it was but well I think it got five years he was but I'm probably gonna do about three four years and I was like he's like so I broke up with my girlfriend I went why he said
Well, he said, you haven't really experienced this yet, but you're going to notice that the guys that have the hardest times are the ones that are trying to relate, maintain a relationship on the street is and you'll see these guys on the phone, just their guts are getting ripped out every day. They're calling their wives screaming. Where are they? Where were you last night? Why didn't you answer the phone is I mean, it's it's agony is and I'm not going to go through that is I'm not going to do that to myself. So I explained to her, I'm going to go to prison. I'll be out in three, about three and a half years.
And if you're single, when I get out, we'll get back together. But if not, we won't. And in the meantime, I think you should find somebody else. You're a beautiful girl. I don't want you to waste three and a half years waiting for me. I don't want you to come see me. Don't write me letters. He was in cheese. And he'd been locked up like a month or two. He's he'd just gotten here waiting to go to another
going to his final prison, like he'd been sentenced, like he'd been locked up six months while he's waiting. Like this had been going on for months. He'd only been here a little bit. He was in the county jail before that or the Marshall's holdover. Like she's still writing every day. He's like, yeah, she's really upset. I was just like, I was like, bro, sounds like she's gonna wait. He's I know it seems like that. He said,
man, she's like, she's 22, or 21, whatever. She's a pretty girl. She'll get over it. He's like, she's gonna find somebody else. He said, I don't want to do that. He had a very, he was very pragmatic about the situation. Exactly. He may have been wrong. He may have been wrong. But he knew that he was like, even if she waited, he was if she waited, it may even be worse. He goes, you know, I'd be laying in bed, I'd be one of these guys, it was just super like,
Very matter of fact, like he knew he'd been in before he'd seen what had happened. He wasn't going to do that. He wasn't going to do it to her. He wasn't going to do it to himself. And, and I always thought to myself like that. He, he probably was the most sane person that I've met that was handling it. Probably the best way for him. Honestly, probably the best way for her too. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he just didn't want to roll the dice on that. Didn't want to roll dice on maybe she sticks around. Maybe she goes all the way through it. Maybe she doesn't, but
I've, I've had that and I know the piece that comes with, okay, that's over. There's nothing in the street to worry about. Now, when you have kids, there's always that part of it to worry about, but everything's out of your control. The sooner you get to that realization that this is out of your control, the better. Right. And it is, it's a stress reliever and it lets you say, all right, now I'm going to improve myself. Right. Which obviously you did. I'm going to, I'm going to read as many books I can. I'm going to learn and try to do as many things to improve myself. And, uh,
Some people, uh, it's crazy, but some people need jail. It's part of your story. You just, you embrace it and you say, Hey, look, this was, I was a complete asshole. Yeah. I was a douche bag before. Like I'd still be, listen, trust me. I'd still, I loved being a douche bag. I'd still be a douche bag. If I could have maintained it, I would have maintained it. You know, like there was nothing changing me. Like when the cop showed up, I'm just going to another place. Like I'm just kind of like the whole, I'm changing the formula.
I'm getting an I'm getting indicted or I'm getting a charge. I'm on probation. I'm just switching it up. Continue the fraud. I get this cop show up to raid the offices like I take off. I commit more fraud. I know it's coming down. I go to another locate like at any point. I could have stopped and said, let's go ahead and fix this now before it gets to be too insane. I just kept thinking they'll never catch me. They'll never catch me. They'll never catch me. By the time they do catch you. Now you've dug such a fucking hole.
But only a lunatic does that. Only a lunatic does that. Yeah. Well, and so you still think the same thing, right? You still think that you would
I would have kept going and going. Is that what you? Yeah. No, I mean, like you think that you could easily be in that life if some things had changed. You're like, yeah, I loved being there. I loved committing fraud. Like I've never, I've never lied about that. I daydream about it to this day. You know, if I didn't have a thing, I got out and things went, and I expected things to be tough. Things went so well for me, but I used to say that if things tanked,
that i would commit fraud again like things got so bad where i'm riding the bus and i'm working i'm working. A horrible job i can't pay my rent and i'm just going i'm barely hanging on and like it's like you know one bad paycheck and you're losing you know you're losing.
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It's not so bad now because now I focus mostly on YouTube and writing and things like that now, but there were years, two, three years out of prison. I'm driving by a vacant house and I'm thinking, hmm, that'd be nice.
That's a nice, it's a nice house, I noticed nobody's nobody's living in that house. You know, saying like, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm laying in bed at night, you know, calculating, but, but luckily, everything, you know, just being a doing the right thing worked out, you know, and there's a there's a certain amount of luck, things could have gone bad, but I was very proud, I was very same thing, pragmatic, very reasonable with my interest, my expectations of life, it was very low.
I wish that on a lot of people that you could feel that feeling that that what really matters to you because it goes back on what I was just saying you feel like you died and you could go look back on that death and see who was there for you and who wasn't and it also lets just personally wise when everything's taken from you what is important
and you start to get an understanding of that and appreciation of having an appreciation for the small things in life is really good. Now you can sound so silly, right? It's the same shit your dad said to you. It's the same stuff that you that you shrug off your whole life. I've been like,
But the whole the whole money doesn't buy happiness. That's like the fuck out of here. Only poor people say that. Like, listen, I had all the little things like, yeah, white, whatever. And then you go to prison and you you know what poor is. And you know what having nothing is not even your freedom. You've got nothing. And and you start to realize like some of my best moments were in prison. My happiest times were in prison. You start to realize that you're like, this is insane. I have nothing. And yet I'm so happy, so content.
And you've seen that there are a lot of people with it worse. And that's a great life lesson to all these guys that lifers I'm going to die right here in this bed, you know, and you know, hey, I've got a date. I'm, I'm going to get out of here. I am going to turn it around when you want it to be
This is going to be a part of your story, but it's not the whole story. The ending hasn't been written yet and what's in the middle. I always tell people life's a lot like poker in that way. Poker's just such a great analogy for life.
Sometimes you put all your chips in and you lose and, you know, you need luck. You need some other things. There's a lot of things that have to happen. You go to the end of a poker tournament and talk to, talk to the person that won and they're telling you about 10 crazy hands and luck and good decisions, luck, and you have to stack that one after another. One bad move, you lose them all. But if you just continue playing great hands and doing the right thing, it's going to come along. Yeah.
It's crazy how you learn that, right? It's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say it's funny too, because I never met one guy in prison that that when he was at his lowest, missed his Maserati. Yeah, nobody ever missed this. No, you never heard somebody say, man, bro, I
fucking miss driving my Ferrari, bro. I mean, it was always like my kids, my all the people and things that you all the people you took it took for granted before is the thing that you miss at your lowest point in prison.
And all those things that you thought were so important, you realize like, I don't even think about that. I don't even think about that car. I don't even think about that house. I've never once thought about going on a vacation. I miss my wife. I miss my kids. Those are the things that you
And yet they were so available when you're out there, you just didn't appreciate them. So I mean, I think it helps you reset your, your priorities. And if you're lucky, you stick with that. And if you're kind of a shit, then you probably lose that at some point, you probably everybody starts to lose it, you have to kind of read I think you have to every once in a while, give yourself a little talk and say, Hey, get your fucking head out of your ass. You're in a good position.
So what that guy cut you off, you know, in traffic, give a fuck, what's it gonna cost me an extra 12 seconds, you know, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, like, I don't care, you know, pull over, I'm driving a little too fast, I get a ticket. I'm lucky I'm driving at all. I'm happy to pay that ticket. Yes, sir, officer. I'm saying like, I mean, it's you got to get your you got to I think everyone's gonna have to remind myself like, you're lucky to be here. Yeah, and there's a great saying that I always try to remember to myself.
And it's like, uh, if you let words bother you and stress you out, that is just the worst thing you can do. And everybody will have control over you because if you allow just words to do it, that everybody can speak words, you will allow everybody to have control over you. And the sooner you can take a deep breath and let things pass and having been through what we've been through, it's so much easier to do that, to take a deep breath reset and
It's going to be real hard to get back to your low point. Things have to take a real crazy turn to get back to your low point and the ability to get back to where you were and better to rewrite the ending.
You know, you have that now, you know, I mean, for me, I, uh, you know, the goal is always for me is to get fuck you money. You know, people always ask you when, when's it enough? When is you had all this money, millions is that, when is it enough? When I have fuck you money, that's when it's enough. Right. And, and what is that? You know, like there's a, there's a, there's an article written about me. Uh, they called me the Donald Trump of synthetic drugs. Right.
And, uh, which is crazy because like at the time he wasn't president, he wasn't, you know, he was just, he was an entrepreneur, a rich guy. And I followed him on Twitter because guess what? The guy has always had fuck you money has always been able to say whatever he wants to say. And that's the goal. When you have a private plane and some fuck you money, that's where it's at. Now I may in my life now want to get there a different way, but that's the goal, right?
So they write this story and they just assume because I follow him, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, like, uh, they assume because I follow these guys that I'm a libertarian that doesn't give a shit about the laws, you know? And, uh, you know, again, Donald Trump of synthetic drugs. So I'm, you know, one, I mean, Donald Trump's an entrepreneur. He's not a, that's crazy. Before he was even president, these guys are trying to blast him and blast me for being a person that follows them. But there's something to be said for that.
Is that not the goal? Right? I mean, I mean, it'd be nice. It'd be nice. But when everybody says when is enough enough, when will you say you've got there? I mean, that's it. I don't when I have I was gonna say I don't. I don't know. It's like someone who said you ever hear these guys. Oh, if I won the lottery, I quit my job. Well, whatever. If I won the lottery, I don't think if I had
$20 million. I think that Colby would be here next Tuesday and we'd be doing a fucking, you know what I'm saying? Like I like my life. I don't think that money would, I'd have a car. Nicer car, nicer house. Still do the same thing every day. I told my wife one time, like I optioned my life right. And she goes, what if they make a movie? Like, what if you make a bunch of money? What if this happens? And I went, I don't think much would change. And she goes, you don't think so? I said, well, I think we'd have a little bit nicer house.
I think we'd have a little bit nicer cars, but I don't think anything would change because I'm doing everything I like right now. I don't think anything would change. Maybe a little less interviews and just only pick the very best. Probably would up our game a little bit.
I'd have a little bit more time than maybe what? Scroll on TikTok? What's going to change? I'm going to go on vacation an extra day. Honestly, if you go to the Keys, four days is enough. You know what I'm saying? The truth is, it's like, oh, I'm going to go on two weeks. You've been on a two-week vacation? You better be traveling because you can't go to, well no, Venice. You could probably go to Venice. There's a lot of museums in Venice.
I don't think two, still two weeks is too much. You've got, you better be traveling. I'm saying like you can only vacation so much before it gets to be a pain in the ass. And you're like, I just want to go home for six months or something. I just, and even then, what are you going to do if you don't have a job? What are you going to do? Sleep late, catch up on my Netflix. Okay. There's two months. Now what? Like, no, I think it'd be now what I got to start my YouTube channel over again.
And this but that's not when I say like a few money mine wouldn't be so that I can turn around and not do anything The f you money is to go impose my will on the world and I'll give you an example, right? I'll give you an example Elon Musk sold his interest in PayPal. He got I don't know somewhere near 200 million dollars for this, right and
You can go buy an island. You can go buy a couple million dollar island. You can, that's some F you money, right? What did he do? He went and spent, just bet on himself. That's what I mean. When I say F you money, that is, you go and pose my will on everything, every way. It's, uh, what you're saying that, that I've misunderstood. It's funny. You use Elon Musk because I, I, I like I'm fascinated. Like I am too. I'm fascinated because I always think
And I've Pete knives, my buddy Pete, and I've thought about this, where it's like, if you if you gave me $200 million, I would probably do a lot of things. But the one thing I probably wouldn't do is think how can I further humanity? Right?
I'm saying like, how can I we go to them? How can we it's like, like you're, you're on some next level shit. And would you bet every penny of that? Can you imagine that? Have you seen the Netflix documentary about the space? Oh, yeah, came over this guy is watching rex of rockets. And this guy's got a set of balls on him.
He's all in everything. Tesla was the same way every time he's gone into something. He's almost gone bankrupt multiple time borrowing multiple months. You're betting everything you've got and it's been multiple times his bets have paid off. But still the same thing is I'm going to start and the things that he's taking on are
It's insane. Who the fuck thinks I'm going to build, I'm going to build an electric car that nobody's building. I'm going to make it affordable and yeah, but there's no way to generate them. Well, then I'm going to build a series of generation areas where you can regenerate or recharge the car. And are you out of your fucking mind, bro? None of that's going to happen. And then no, I'm going to build rockets and we're going to go to not to the moon, not to outer space and build maybe
Maybe like a hotel that people could go and do kind of like a tourist thing. No, no, we're going to go all the way to Mars, which is about 2000% harder than going to the moon. And we're going to do that. And we're going to build a city of a million people, because I think we need to do that, just in case something goes wrong here on earth, like you give me 200 million. And honestly, I'm, I'm probably going to do some stuff, but it's more entertainment based for me, I might build some stuff, I might do a little bit of stuff. But
It's furthering humanity and saving the environment is not a part of my agenda. Yeah, I'm buying Twitter because he feels like like there's not enough free. There's not a free there's too much censorship. I'm buying Twitter. No, like that's insane at a price higher than anyone else would. I don't care. But what's crazy that he's he has a story about that they ask him
The guy tells him, hey, listen, I know why you're going to fail. And he says, well, really? Well, tell me. And the guy says, the reason you're going to fail with this Tesla deal, the reason you're going to fail is because all of these legacy automakers, they make almost 40, 50% of their money comes from selling the parts on the older vehicles. That's where 40 to 50% of their revenue comes from. And you don't have any older vehicles to make that revenue from.
So you're going to fail. You don't have, they've got a model that you can't repeat. And he said, Oh, okay. Well, watch this. And instead of doing what they did, he went and figured out a way to manufacture and, and increase that process. Whereas margins were big enough to cover not having those. Right. And what one of those was I'm going to, I'm going to build a vehicle and we're not going to spend 20% of the, of the profit margin on advertising.
Like, then how are people going to buy your vehicle? Well, we're just going to hope it's organic. We're not going to we're not going to like Are you ready? Listen, every that is as dumb of an idea as the guy that walked into the first meeting and said, 30 years ago and said, Listen, let's bottle water. Everybody at that table had to go, who the fuck let this guy in? What are you talking about? We're going to bottle water, and we're going to sell it for more than soda.
Who let him in? How many meetings did he have to go where people where he was laughed out of the meeting, until somebody said, Well, let's look at this again. Well, how was I don't? Okay, well, we could try it on a small scale, maybe. And I don't know about you guys, but bottled water is tremendously fucking profitable. It's the dumbest fucking idea. And where most of the bottled water comes from now,
They're taking it right out of the tap. They're filtering it and taking it out of the tap. And they're still selling it to me for a dollar and 80 cents. Are you out of your fucking mind? I mean, that's an idea that like is the it's the dumbest thing ever that turns into Elon Musk has had multiple stupid ideas, in my opinion, that have made billions of dollars like, and I'm sure every time he pitched it,
It even when he talks about Tesla stock and people like what about Tesla stock like you feel like it's it's a good value. He's like, it's really overpriced. I mean, you're like several times. This is your company. Don't say that. What are you doing? And he's he's like, yeah, I don't know why it's so high. I don't it's it's really over because you do the cost analysis and you start breaking it down. You're like, what are you doing? I mean, he's very honest about just everything involved and it's and I think it's part of that honesty.
is why so many people back him and love him. And that's the F you money we're talking about. Remember, they were the boycotters. We're talking about boycotting Twitter. Okay, that's what you're saying. I would love to have F you money. So they say we're going to boycott Twitter. Remember that? They're going to boycott Twitter. He comes right out and says, if you think you're going to use money to manipulate me,
Fuck you. Says it right out to anybody who thinks if you're not going to advertise on my platform, you got the wrong guy. What was the other thing? He used the Princess Bride analogy where you're seeing the Princess Bride. I said where he goes. Yeah, he does the whole thing where he says offer me money.
offer me like he starts telling that he's about to he's fighting the guy he's gonna kill him. And the guy's begging and he's like, offer, like beg, always a bag, you offer me money, offer me fame, offer me that he's like, offer me these things to spare your life. He's like, it doesn't matter. But I'm dying for you to offer me these things. You got he talked, Elon Musk does that he goes, during a thing where they say, Well, what do you think? And he goes, it makes me think of the Princess Bride, which is a kids movie.
He goes, when the guy says, offer me this, offer me that, he's like, I don't care. That's great. And he even says, too, when he says, oh, yeah, like, they stopped some big advertiser, and he's like, yeah, he's like, it'll probably bankrupt us. Yeah. He's like, but I'm not going to not do or follow what I think is right. So yeah, we'll bankrupt. Yeah, probably. You'll probably bankrupt us. That's fine.
And if you ever want to have a few money, if that's not your idol, if that's not who you want to be like, that's how you get there. You out-execute everybody else. That's what he's done on every level. He out-executed the United States. He out-executed us and we're paying for rockets. He made them reusable. He made them for 10% of us. How big is our budget? He out-executed.
the United States, I mean, listen, when those things were coming down and crashing one after another after and now, now when they do it, it's, it's just like, it's insane. The other thing is was the the boosters were supposed to get
I think 10, he figured 10, you could get 10 uses. Some of these things have done like 22 times, like they've gone up over and over. He's like, oh, it's like, he's like, there's no way this one's not gonna, there's no way this one's gonna land. This is the 22nd time it's gone, whatever that is, whatever that number is. And they're outperforming even what they were hoping was the best was like, we were hoping to get 10 or 12 uses out of them. This one's been used 22 times. And there's still no landing and landing. Like they've got it down landing.
Yeah, and then you're using that to create another billion dollar company. So now you go put the satellites up there. Now you have internet everywhere. You can be in the middle of the desert. You got Starlink to your phone. So you use SpaceX, your second billion dollar company, you know. Well, you know, he's also got the boring company. He's got the one with the, he's got all of that. It's like everybody's like, you know, why are you, why a boring company? Why, why would you, I don't understand how that, okay, well, if he does make it to Mars,
The bulk of civilization is going to be underground for a long, long time. Will there be Glass Dome City someday? Sure. Maybe we've seen Star Trek. Yeah, maybe in 200 years, but for the majority of them, or you're going to have to bore, you know, through the ground. And he's guess what? I happen to have a boring company. And if you're getting these, these rockets up there, and if you've ever watched, they said like the first
Is it trillionaire or something like that one of the first trillion somebody I'd seen one of these where they were like the first trillionaire will be the person that figures out how to go to the asteroid belt grab one of these asteroids and get the minerals and bring it back and it doesn't take much putting a couple rockets a couple of pushes to pull it out and you can pull it right into orbit in the around
The moon or around, well, Mars or the moon or whatever, and just use it. Most of those asteroids, not most of them, but lots of those asteroids have as much raw material for metals on one of those asteroids as we do on all of Earth. So they can easily, whoever gets that, guess what? That just, you just
How rich are you now? Who knows what else you find there? Yeah, who knows? We don't know about something that's, oh, look, this thing does, it's 20 times stronger. I'll tell you what, that happens. You don't want to be having a ton of your money in precious metals, that's for sure. Better dump all that stock immediately.
But yeah, he's I'm I'm fascinated. I watched tons of stuff on on colonizing Mars. I watched it all the time. My wife laughs about it. I am a nerd as well. I'm a nerd with anything to do with Elon. I'm just I'm just fascinated with people who have outdone other people, you know who they have a ton of people trying to do what he's done. He's done it better than everyone else. I mean, you car companies were some of the biggest companies in the country and he came in and competed in a space that was
Really crazy. What about I wonder about these, these Tesla bots, like initially when they come out, it's like anything when you first come out, like they're not great. But in five years from now, they're going to be fucking 10 years from now, those things are going to be amazing. The first generation or two is never the best, you have to work out the kinks. But Jesus, those things in five years after they first hit the market, they're going to be they're going to be 1010.
It's going to be fun. They're going to be knocking on your door trying to sell you aluminum siding or something or solar panels or you're going to be like, it's going to be like a normal human being.
yeah it's gonna they're gonna be insane that that would be crazy you walk into a factory and it's all robots but not in the traditional sense of a big arm robot it's actual walking around robots and they don't need a lunch break they don't need no imagine you saying what benefits what thirty forty thousand dollars so i can pay a human seventy thousand a year to do this job or i can just buy two of these robots that work 24 hours a day that's gonna be a problem you know that's gonna be yes
But once again, you're gonna he's gonna and he's already said, oh, the robot thing will be it'll be a much bigger moneymaker than anything else I have got going. Yeah. And can you imagine that that's that's that's what I mean by saying I want to
I want to get on that stuff now. I, you know, I'm fascinated with that in a way that I never did. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm from a small town and, and nothing changes there. Right. I've told you that nothing, nothing changes there and you get three more buildings. Yeah. You know, it's the rest of new Starbucks is the excitement of the town. Right. And when you don't get away much, you don't realize what's happening in the rest of the world and the rest of the world, crazy things are happening. You know, you go to Las Vegas, you go back two years later and
There's crazy stuff there, you know. The rest of the world is doing these crazy things and unless you get out a little bit and see what everybody's doing, it gives you that, you know, for me, it gives you that thirst to get out and do more, you know. That's kind of what I thought I was doing. I was scouting locations in Ohio. I was going to move this chain to like, you know, I was going to go to 50 stores really, really quick, you know.
Uncle Sam put a stop to that. Uncle Sam put a stop to that one. But, you know, that's why, you know, nowadays, I wouldn't go back to the same thing. I, you know, I've got, got five kids. That's crazy. I can't go. I've got five kids. I can't be doing anything. It's going to bring me to jail. You know, I've got a little four year old. So it's crazy. Me and Katie. So we've got a,
a four year old daughter. So I actually have a grandson that's one year, one years old, right? And it's crazy. We went on a little vacation and come back and oopsie, you know, so I have all my kids are in their twenties. I have, I have three kids that can drink, you know, and now a four year old, you know, oopsie comes along. But it, you know, having a kid later in life that's young like that, it, uh,
It keeps you young. But after all that I've been through, I've, you know, I'm in a place now where I would never do something for a living that I can't bring my kids to. You know, I mean, I was always in the gray area, but even smoke shop ish, I just, there's so much out there. And you learn this, like you were a person that went and read a bunch of books and you learn about the world and you say,
Well, I don't have to do that anymore. You know, I don't have to do something that's in a gray area. I don't have to do something that I can't bring my kids to work. Now, I'm not doing anything that I can't bring them and show them and you know, that I can't be proud of, you know, in that way. So, you know, learning, you learn about the world to go into going to prison because you meet people from everywhere doing everything stuff you can't even think of, you know, how you've been out.
I got out in May of 2018. So I did my three years on post release. I immediately knew I wanted to go to a business friendly state with no tax. I went to Dallas in
Tampa went, you know, it's going to go to one of those two places. Uh, I went to Dallas and there was an ice storm, the worst ice storm they've ever seen in a hundred years, the week I was there. And then I came to Tampa and had beautiful trip. Last, last day was Anna Maria Island. Fantastic. And I said, this is where I want to be.
So, uh, so I'm, I moved to, you know, cause now when you're off the post-release supervision, that's it. Uh, no babysitter. Now it's time to go hard. Now it's no babysitter. It's go time. Uh, you know, I came, I came down here. I was, uh, was doing a CBD business at the time I was making these honey sticks and these other, uh, uh, products went to a trade show and this, this guy was selling, uh, uh, freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and I was buying them and people were buying them like crazy.
doing great, you know, and it was dropped with CBD on them, you know, so they were they were selling like crazy. And so I originally got the first machine to to try to replicate and fill the orders he couldn't fill. At the time, I didn't realize why he couldn't do it. But one run takes you an entire day to do.
in this freeze-dry machine. It looks just like your dryer, you know, and you load in trays of food in there and it takes all the water content out. So an ice cream sandwich turns into like a styrofoam brick looking shape, but you couldn't leave it out. You can seal it in plastic as long as you don't let it get exposed to oxygen. You can leave that out for 10 years and still eat it, you know, room temperature.
So that's what they do with space food. So that's why freeze dry products have become so popular because the shelf life is amazing. You know, you get something that's chocolate, you got to move it nonstop. The shelf, like the heat, the, you know, different things. So, uh, so that's, you know, I, uh, I was supplementing that I got my first machine to sort of do that. And then I started maybe me testing everything, you know, having everybody try all this different stuff. People were trying skittles, lemon heads, all these different products and loving them like, Oh, this is fantastic. You know,
So I knew that was it. Like I say, you got to find the thing that's that's all I've been looking for. Find the new thing, something that interests me, but yet is that I know is it. So I was onto it before anybody else. Fuel on the fire, you know, poor fuel on the fire on that. And, you know, I went from, you know, a little 1200 square foot building to, you know, three decent sized buildings. You know, I've sold products to thousands of stores, probably in about 4500 stores.
And, uh, making my own candy now doing, uh, doing, uh, some pretty crazy stuff, you know, trying to get innovative and doom, you know, expand that. And, uh, you know, when you, when you get out and you have nothing and you're starting over from scratch again, you just need that one little start. And some people go back to something crazy cause that's, they can't get that, you know, that once everybody always tells yourself that, right? Like I just need that like a hundred thousand to start up with something, you know? So, uh,
You know, uh, now that I've gotten into this, I, I, I, I poured fuel on the fire of that and doing really good with it. So, Hey you guys, John is thinking, Hey you guys, John is thinking about sponsoring this, the podcast. I don't even know what I'm supposed to say at this point. So buy some of the candy. So right. Did I? Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to use this as the fucking thing?
All right. Hey, you guys, John is thinking about sponsoring the podcast. So do me a favor, click on the link and go buy some of the candy. It's really good. It's free drop. It's really good. It's freeze dried. Actually, I, I love I love red hots. These are like red hots, right? They blow them up. You know, he puts them in the thing and blow them up like they're good. I love right out. No, I love
You know what else I love which these are red hots, I love red, love red hots as a kid. I love red hots as a kid. You know what else I love which he's got, which is lemon heads. I didn't even think they made lemon heads anymore, but they're delicious.
hey thank you very much for watching the video do me a favor hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this also please consider joining our patreon it's ten dollars a month and it really does help colby and i uh make videos like this we'll leave all of bliss life's uh links in the description box so you can go in there and click on that and check it out and um maybe in the future we may be doing some ads for freeze-dried candy bliss life free dried candy bliss
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It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home.
A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.
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"text": " Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy. They work with many insurance companies and most people with insurance pay zero dollars for therapy or psychiatry. You can change your provider for free. This helps you find the licensed therapist who fits your needs the best. Therapy can be costly, but part of the mission of Talkspace is to provide quality care that is accessible and affordable whether or not you are insured. Talkspace makes getting the help you need easy. Let me tell you more about why I love Talkspace."
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"text": " podcast and enter promo code SPACE80. It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home. A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name David Minor the fourth and we talked to him."
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"text": " Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jean Chatsky. You may know me as the host of the Her Money podcast or the financial editor of NBC's Today Show for 25 years."
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"text": " Today I'd personally like to invite you to join my women-led investing club. It's called Investing Fix with two X's. We walk through current market trends, teach investing fundamentals and build a real portfolio together. Plus your first month is absolutely free. So come check us out at investingfix.com. We'd love to have you. They called me the Donald Trump of synthetic macy's."
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"text": " 8 vehicles, they take a million dollars clean in the bottom of a safe. I'm running a legal business that happened to start selling these products that were just banned. I'm in my twenties, going to bars, not really doing much."
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"text": " I found that I had an affinity for the side hustle of selling grass. I went from selling a little bit here and there to friends and you know, just getting enough to have some for yourself to all of a sudden making trips where you're in it with one bad move. So I had put together a little nest egg through doing that of maybe $20,000, let's say, right? Something like that. And, you know, in this small town that I'm from,"
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"text": " The, uh, the only smoke shop in the town is called OCJ's odd creations junket. You go in there, this guy literally started the business in 1979, the year I was born and looks like he hasn't changed much since 1979. So you go in there, he keeps the lights out until someone comes in. Oh, all right. I'll turn them on now. Like cheap, crazy dust on everything. This is a, this is a terrible, terrible smoke shop. This is the only one in town."
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"text": " so uh so it doesn't have to be super good it's the only option you don't have any other options yeah and this guy's like an old stoner everybody loved him you know he's uh you know everybody's cool with him it's a cool thing yeah we go see danny it's a you know it's a thing"
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"text": " So he's, he's having pretty good success there, but here's me. I've, I've been doing this little hustling on the side. Uh, and I want to do something with this money. I've always, you know, wanted to get into business. So then I decide I'm going to do a smoke shop. I'm going, I'm looking at stuff online. I'm looking from everything from Chinese classware, from Alibaba and these other online, uh, sites to, uh, to, you know, real wholesale websites. So I start looking them up. I'm putting stuff in carts. I'm doing all this stuff."
},
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"end_time": 276.22,
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"text": " And I said, yeah, this is this is it. This is the thing I'm going to do. So I put together a smoke shop, probably spent half of this nest egg that I had, you know, and I'm running the smoke shop that that's all going good and fine. But I'm making maybe $100 a day profit."
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"text": " Not a world killer. People start coming by and they're telling me, Hey, there's the town Utica. It's 20 minutes away. After you're paying your lease and everything or you're making it, they're making 3000 a month and you still have to pay for your lease. No, no, no, that's profit. I'm making about a hundred dollars a day profit. I'm probably doing three or $400 a day in business. Okay."
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"text": " So it's a, it's a business. It's working. Yeah, you can live off this. I certainly could have. I wouldn't want to. Yeah. And believe me, it's getting, it's getting better. So people start coming by. They're telling me this, this next city over same thing, one store in town and they kind of treat people like shit. They're just like, Hey, take it or leave it. Kind of they've got attitudes. That's crazy. No one likes going there, but they're the only show in town too. And people are telling me, Hey, if you come over here and build one here, people will go there. They don't like these guys, you know,"
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"text": " So I do it. I go, I start a second one. I have a friend working the first one and I'm starting the second one. Now, keep in mind this whole time, I'm doing a little bit of side hustling, right? Not a lot, but I'm doing a little bit of side hustling, but I've got a good friend that just has always been a grower. That's all he's done in his whole life. He loves it. So I start the second one and I'm actually going so crazy at that time that we actually build a grow room upstairs"
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"text": " In a smoke shop, which is absolutely terrible idea. You're already have scrutiny because you're running a smoke shop selling paraphernalia. Why don't we throw up a grow room? Why don't we go ahead and make it official? Yeah, it's a great idea. Brilliant, right? So and believe me, there's gonna be a lot of brilliant ideas here, right? This is one of them. So so I'm doing the grow room. You know, I've got the two stores. It's going pretty good between side hustle money. Both stores are profitable. It's going good. And so"
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"text": " Crazy moment in walks a guy that I still notice they Tommy. So Tommy walks in Tommy's from Colorado, but he's always out. He's always traveling around. He's around all these places in West Coast and he's coming. He's like, Hey, do you got any of this spice?"
},
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"start_time": 395.043,
"text": " What year is this? This is 2006, 2007. This is just becoming prominent nationwide."
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"text": " Now keep in mind, this is the original version of what I call K2 spice. It's a synthetic product. The original version was actually really good. Okay, so what I tell people for an analogy is"
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"index": 18,
"start_time": 440.862,
"text": " Water is H2O, two atoms of hydrogen, one atom of oxygen. So imagine if instead of H2O, you create H3O. It's very similar in chemical structure and still causes the same effect to the human body, but yet it's not going to set off a field test and urinalysis and all the stuff that people worry about because keep in mind, it's not like today where there's almost every state has legalized grass. This is, you know, it's banned in every state. This is not legal anywhere."
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"text": " So this product is becoming prominent nationwide and I am the first person in my area and to have a leg up I'm in these two towns that I'm the only show in town, you know, there's there's one other store, but I'm the only one doing this So Tommy comes in he tells me about all this and I'm going you know, what let's let's try some bring something, you know"
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"end_time": 512.756,
"index": 20,
"start_time": 487.278,
"text": " And Tommy was really funny. He was really good. He would, every single thing he ever brought me said not for human consumption on it. And it was, you know, this obscure federal law that the synthetic drug act of like 1987 was, if it's anything that's meant for human consumption is, you know, if it has this, this and this, it's illegal. So he would have not for human consumption on everything. So he brings it in."
},
{
"end_time": 538.183,
"index": 21,
"start_time": 512.756,
"text": " And I mean, this thing blows up. When I tell you it blows up, it's going crazy. So, and then I start making it go crazy. So I am running on a local radio station. I'm blasting this on the radio. Come get this magic, magic something, magic smoker. We called it something. The original one, it was Tommy's name, right? So come get this. I'm running on the radio saying this. Okay."
},
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"start_time": 538.456,
"text": " I did sort of like a podcast as Bill Keeler was a local radio talent. I'm going on his show. I'm doing the show and the guy that's working the show also, he pulls it out of his pocket. Hey, look, I went and got some this morning. It's fantastic. It works. It's just like the real thing. So it's nuts because I'm bringing it to an area nobody had ever heard of it in, you know?"
},
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"end_time": 571.732,
"index": 23,
"start_time": 561.152,
"text": " So when I tell you this takes off, I mean, this takes off. This is now you're going from doing three, $400 a day to every stores doing at least a thousand dollars a day on slow days."
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"text": " It's taken off. Super Bowl is finally here. It's not just the biggest game of the year. It's the ultimate betting event. And if you're not on my bookie, you're leaving money on the table. Super Bowl betting isn't just about picking the winner anymore because my bookies got all the wild prop bets you can imagine. My bookie will pretty much let you bet on anything. Listen to some of these bets. You can bet on how long the national anthem will last and if the singer will nail every single word or will there be some slip ups."
},
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"text": " You can also bet on will someone trip and fall during the halftime show? Will Trump tweet during the game? Which commercial will first appear? Budweiser or Coca-Cola? You can even bet on what color the Gatorade shower will be. What sets my bookie apart? They make it easy to bet and they make it easy to get paid. From crypto to credit, you've got bonuses for every type of deposit and you get cash back just for playing through their new loyalty program."
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"text": " Bet on the biggest stage with boosted parlays, live betting, and jackpots that turn small bets into huge payouts. Why just watch the Super Bowl when you can own it? Sign up with MyBookie now and use the promo code COX, and we'll hook you up with a bonus to get you started. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with MyBookie. So me, my first thing is, how do we scale this? How do we get this, you know, money's pouring in?"
},
{
"end_time": 670.282,
"index": 27,
"start_time": 653.285,
"text": " It's go time, right? How do we do this? So I get immediately to work on creating new stores. So I start going around to all these little to any little town that was near far enough to have a new location, but close enough that it's, it's got its own people. It's really close."
},
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"end_time": 697.79,
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"start_time": 670.828,
"text": " So I go to a third small town near me, town of 20,000 people. I'm going around and ask people, Hey, what radio station you list? I'm interviewing people as you're going out front, typical things that you would do when you're starting a business. But I'm keeping in mind that this is the number one seller. So this isn't just a regular smoke shop anymore. This is building a smoke shop with the intent that we are going to sell mucho spice there, right? Like this is a, it's going to go crazy."
},
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"end_time": 724.394,
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"start_time": 698.336,
"text": " So are you concerned at all that like it could be, it could be illegal or could be made illegal. Oh, at this point, no, it was, this was a tiger by the tail. This was, you know, this was, I've got this thing that nobody else has. Everybody's trying to get into this. At this point, people are looking to open stores and I'm demolishing them all because I am pumping radio ads. I'm building new places. I've got the word of mouth already."
},
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"end_time": 751.323,
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"start_time": 724.65,
"text": " Everybody in the whole area was knowing that you could go buy this. So keep in mind, the area that I'm from has like a Walmart distribution center right near there. Over 3,000 people work there, regularly piss tested. They love it. So it's a lot of the works. There are many prisons in upstate New York right near me. Everybody who worked at those prisons, I can now go and smoke and not fail your analysis. It's huge, right? This thing is really taken off."
},
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"index": 31,
"start_time": 751.323,
"text": " so it's everybody and it's people that just don't want to deal with the regular call my guy go meet him in a gas station parking lot bullshit you know I can go right in pay this I'm a paying sales tax on it if I get pulled over I'm telling hey look I just got this right here at Tebs I just want this right now look at it"
},
{
"end_time": 789.735,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 766.92,
"text": " So it's, it's taken off. I mean, this is going nuts. So I build the third one, the fourth one. Now I, now I go to Syracuse. So this is, you know, I'm from a small town. It's 30,000 people. Syracuse got, you know, almost 200,000 people. So I go right to a very popular bar area Armory square. I mean, I must've spent 20 grand on this bill. I don't even own the building spent 20 grand on just remodeling it."
},
{
"end_time": 814.241,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 790.145,
"text": " 14 foot high ceilings with big glass water pipes up and down built a huge smoke shop right downtown I Start running on you know, so you've got the station was called k-rock So I'm running on the radio stations in my area and now I start running on Syracuse radio stations It is it takes off. It's going nuts You know, so I'm building stores. We are we are going crazy"
},
{
"end_time": 839.172,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 814.667,
"text": " I'm actually having to build out a real team now, you know, because I've got to build out people just like a regular business. I've got to have sort of district managers. All right, you take care of this and this story. You do this. It becomes, you know, quite a lot to deal with at that point. But when I tell you money's rolling in, it's it's huge. So I start taking off. I start doing all these other ones. I do"
},
{
"end_time": 863.319,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 839.514,
"text": " Four of them total in Syracuse. I had 12 stores all said and done at the end, but I had done four in the Utica Rome area where I'm from. Four of them in Syracuse. I go up, I do one in Watertown. Watertown is next to a place called Fort Drum Military Base. It's literally half the people in this town. It becomes my best store instantly. It's all these army guys. They all have piss tests."
},
{
"end_time": 885.026,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 863.763,
"text": " They can all come get this. What's happening with the other stores? Are they just there? They're not catching on that. Hey, I should sell this or Oh, everybody's catching on. Yeah, everybody's selling it. So in the end, but they're just by everybody. Yeah. So then not only are they behind the ball on it, but I am getting to the point where I'm running radio stations. We are the"
},
{
"end_time": 912.381,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 885.026,
"text": " the name recognition that everybody knows, right? So I'm running on the radio station. I'm pushing marketing as hard as possible. I'm building big, huge sites. Normal smoke shops just have like this little, you know, they don't do big crazy signage. Now you see them all with it. They want, you know, they want everybody know they're there. But at this time, it kind of wasn't like I was going to say it's funny because like if you go to, if you go to get cigarettes someplace, right? Like you go to 7-Eleven to get cigarettes and they don't have them."
},
{
"end_time": 932.602,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 912.688,
"text": " And then you go to Circle K to see if they have them and they do have them almost nobody ever goes back to 7-eleven again like they'll always keep going to Circle K why because they always have the cigarettes I want that they would have to run out for you to even consider going back to the 7-eleven that ran out you see I'm saying so and not just that now that they're going there now every time they need some"
},
{
"end_time": 952.824,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 932.961,
"text": " You know, some they need to buy a soda. They don't go. Why would I go to the old 7-eleven? They don't even have my secret. They go to the new place. They keep going. Now they're buying all their now that that becomes kind of their go-to move. So you're basically you're saying that that you became you're pulling from these other places. They're buying their stuff at your place."
},
{
"end_time": 978.507,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 953.251,
"text": " And they're just kind of staying there at this point, right? Cause nobody else, even if these guys come up, obviously they get cigarettes again. Doesn't matter. This is the place that always has it. And this is a place I'm now there. You'd have to fuck up for them to go back to seven 11. Oh yeah. And I'm leaving out a very important part of this too. So early on when I'm, I'm at three or four stores and I'm realizing there's all these people that are out there trying to push their brand of this spice. So you're getting phone calls. My stores getting calls every day from,"
},
{
"end_time": 995.486,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 979.002,
"text": " The whole country is onto this and these people are calling, I'm trying to sell some version of this to me. Well, as luck would have it, the guy that I started with, Tommy, he's a, he's a, he's a scientist, this guy, right? Like he's into it. He's trying, he's ordering all kinds of different synthetic drugs and trying them. He's nuts. He's into it."
},
{
"end_time": 1022.005,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 995.486,
"text": " So he's making me stuff that's much better than other people. And very early on, I realized I've got to make my own brand. I want to control this brand. I actually was getting copied by other stores that were taking our brand, photocopying it, making stickers that said Legal Funk, which is our brand, and selling it in their stores with a black and white face to it. You know, other stores are starting to copy because people are coming in saying, have any Legal Funk? No, that's the one I want."
},
{
"end_time": 1051.578,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1022.005,
"text": " It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it."
},
{
"end_time": 1064.991,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1052.432,
"text": " His name, David Minor IV, and we talk to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts."
},
{
"end_time": 1096.988,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1073.251,
"text": " of not only what you're doing, but he would put a couple of different ones in one. So the original formula was called JWH 018. That was the more closely. So that was like the H3O, but you'd have H4O, H5O. They kept making different ones of these, you know? So he's making the best ones possible at this time, right? So I go up, I do Watertown. So about right after I do the Watertown one,"
},
{
"end_time": 1114.531,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1097.398,
"text": " It's going hard. I mean, Watertown's doing eight, $10,000 a day every day. It's going hard. All of a sudden, you start having little news outlets and people start doing these stories of, hey, there's this new phenomenon and people are catching on. You're getting articles, news, different things, you know?"
},
{
"end_time": 1136.544,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1114.531,
"text": " And so the writing is starting to be on the wall a little bit. Like, Hey, they're, this is becoming very prominent. They're going to have to do something about it. So I'm watching all of that kind of stuff. Right. And my guy, Tommy is seriously watching all that kind of stuff. If they banned something, it's a, it's sort of a cat and mouse game when it comes to this, right. They ban H3O you make H4O. They ban H4O you make H5O."
},
{
"end_time": 1161.357,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1136.544,
"text": " Right. So about right after I had done Watertown, they had started to do some bands and they would take like five chemicals at once and say, okay, these are now on the controlled list. This is now considered a controlled substance. So they did. I think the original band was like five different chemicals. Tommy was ready. Boom. We're on, we're onto something else. So, you know, am I worried that this is illegal? I'm not even thinking of that. I'm thinking,"
},
{
"end_time": 1177.483,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1161.357,
"text": " Again, tiger by the tail mentality. Yeah, they change it. We're gonna change it Doesn't matter. They want to you want to ban this by the time you get this done We're gonna be on to the next thing. That's not even a problem, you know, so I mean that's at least my thinking at the time It's obviously see where that led, but that's uh, that's my thinking at the time"
},
{
"end_time": 1206.459,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1178.114,
"text": " So, uh, you know, like I say, right after we do Watertown, not only does this start becoming like a deal, you're seeing it in news stories. I had had a few reporters calling me. I'm not talking to any of them. I'm just going hard. And people always ask you this with the end. And after you don't, you know, why didn't you stop? Why didn't you stop? Well, you, you're not making the kind of money that I was making. And on top of that, for me, I'd never made that kind of money in my life. I was, you know, just running around doing job to job bullshit. I'm not making this kind of money."
},
{
"end_time": 1223.114,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1207.005,
"text": " So it starts hitting the fan a little bit, right? They're onto it. You're getting the five chemical ban. All of a sudden, I get blacklisted by the Army. So I get served in every single location."
},
{
"end_time": 1246.783,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1223.473,
"text": " Every store, my house, I had already built a warehouse that I'm distributing product in, everything from my warehouse. I get served everywhere that, hey, just to let you know, US Army personnel are no longer allowed to step foot in any of your premises, list them all out. So I'm blacklisted. Army personnel, so they're pissed up there, right? They're not happy about this."
},
{
"end_time": 1265.845,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1247.432,
"text": " So we're blacklisted. And what's funny is I used to just kind of go around to all these stores. I'm checking in, seeing how everything's going, see what people are doing. And I was going up to Watertown. I'd hang out for an hour or two, just kind of see how things are going. I'm noticing all kinds of weird stuff is selling in the Watertown store. Pink stuff, different shirts."
},
{
"end_time": 1291.22,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1266.323,
"text": " I hang out for an hour. I realize everybody's sending their wives in. Everybody's sending all the women and every pink pipes and all that other place. Different things are selling in this store now. And that's all they're doing. They're, they're just sending somebody else in that this store's numbers are still never stopping, you know? So, uh, I ended up opening three more stores after that, right? So I do a total of 12 stores. I mean,"
},
{
"end_time": 1309.036,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1291.698,
"text": " Getting towards the end of this, we are pulling in money. We are, you know, this thing is, I have two different district, I have somebody running the three main stores, I have somebody else running, you know, four stores from Syracuse, a different person running all the Utica Rome stores, and"
},
{
"end_time": 1338.336,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1309.77,
"text": " You kind of convince yourself, like we're skirting a gray area. This isn't illegal. We're just skirting a gray area. You know, I've got bank accounts with a bunch of money in it. We're going and counting money. You're doing, you know, a hundred, we'd go count, get money from every store. You're doing 120, $150,000 a week in cash sales. Plus, you know, much credit cards, other stuff. It's, it's pretty crazy. You know, it's going full fledged. It's a, it's going hard. And, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 1353.2,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1339.087,
"text": " Yeah, these are really the good times because a lot of other people they're committing crimes and they know it's coming to an end."
},
{
"end_time": 1381.254,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1353.626,
"text": " eventually right like you had to know this is coming they are going to catch up to me well i thought i was pretty cocky i thought i'm just that good you're never gonna get me yeah i'm that good you get you become emboldened and people think that it's people think that's easier than people think right but i know what i'm doing is illegal like i was not let's not like you're you're thinking okay they just banned this okay we're gonna switch this we're gonna do this and this we're good okay cool let's keep going like you're thinking"
},
{
"end_time": 1409.718,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1381.681,
"text": " I'm ahead of them. Right. And so I'm thinking I'm ahead of them, but I'm also thinking we can stay ahead of them. They're publicizing these upcoming bands. We know when this is going to happen. They're saying, Hey, we're, this is going to be reviewed in Congress in two weeks and we're getting solicited by people cause everybody's watching it. So we're getting solicited by people that are trying to sell this stuff. And they're saying, Hey, buy our stuff. We're up on the laws. We're not going to let you have anything older that's outdated or no good anymore. You know? And,"
},
{
"end_time": 1439.684,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1410.35,
"text": " Keep in mind, there's also some other bad stuff that's happening at this time. At this time, okay, so my analogy, the H2O, H3O, H4O, now by the time you make H47O, you're pretty far away from the original formula, right? We're not talking, you know, just a regular synthetic product anymore. You're talking about something crazy. And you're getting stories like, you know, in Florida, people are eating people's faces. You're getting crazy stories."
},
{
"end_time": 1459.735,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1440.23,
"text": " Yeah, that's like I think I remember like when I was in high school or middle school people saying I don't know if it's the same thing called like bath salts or something. But I remember people being saying like in Miami is like like a literal zombie, like trying to eat. Right? Yeah, you know, there was a there was a kid that like ate his neighbor's face or something wasn't a kid or was it"
},
{
"end_time": 1481.067,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1459.735,
"text": " Yeah. And the story ends up being overblown for what it is, but it's a, you know, it's true. And people are, like I say, you get so far away from the original formula and it's crazy because here it is, the federal government thinks they're helping. You're coming in, you're hurting this. You're banning all the very close formulas, the ones that are more natural and more likely to be natural and like the real thing."
},
{
"end_time": 1497.773,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1481.067,
"text": " And you're making these people, but you're having people go and create formulas that are far off. This is made in some lab somewhere and it comes in as kilos of powder and you're taking it and you're putting it, dissolving it in alcohol and spraying it on a dried plant material, you know?"
},
{
"end_time": 1520.896,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1497.773,
"text": " You don't really know what the effects are at this point. Yeah, you don't know, and you don't know who's done that. Now me, I know, I know who's doing mine and I trust him. So I know that what we're doing is good and the proof is in the pudding because everybody loves what we're doing. We're outselling everybody, right? And I know what's going on the street. Keep in mind, I would be going to, I'd go to Vegas to all these trade shows, these smoke shop trade shows, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 1548.387,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1520.896,
"text": " And I remember going to champs trade shows where literally a whole section of the trade show is nothing but like K2 and spice area. There's people selling truckloads of, uh, mania leaf and marshmallow leaf and the actual materials used to make it. Those guys are making killings. You'd have people that buy up the whole supply by truckloads of it for a couple hundred dollars a pound and then selling it. They found an arbitrage opportunity and nuts."
},
{
"end_time": 1566.408,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1549.036,
"text": " so i mean i would be going to these places and i would be seeing everybody do it so there's a lot of people and there's a lot of people doing it way bigger than we're doing it i just happen to be killing it in the area that i'm in so but everybody's doing this and at this point every other store is doing it too"
},
{
"end_time": 1591.442,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1566.715,
"text": " I'm getting blacklisted because I happen to have one that's very popular with the army, but you know, you go to convenience stores, Circle K's and 7-Elevens, and people have a similar product there. Everybody wanted in on this. And that will sort of rock you to sleep too. That'll let you think, well, everybody's doing this. It's Bob, Dave, Joe, everybody's doing it. So what am I doing that's any different?"
},
{
"end_time": 1612.927,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1592.312,
"text": " If they're going to get anybody, they're going to get Paul. Yeah, he's got a huge operation. He's all over the country, right? Like you're thinking, yeah, yeah, you're certainly not on their list. No. And then, you know, a little secret for everybody out there is nobody knows what the federal government can do when they come in. You know, I had only known of state things, you know, when things happen on a state level."
},
{
"end_time": 1636.749,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1612.927,
"text": " You know, if you've got enough money to post some bail, you're fine. So I know at any point in time, you know, I mean, I've got a safe, I'm trying to stack a million dollars of brand new hundred dollar bills in this thing, right? Like I've got, I'm like going to the bank and exchanging some like old shitty ones and getting brand new crispy ones. How many you got? Oh, you got $30. I'll take those. And I'm trying to stack this to make a million dollars clean in the bottom of a safe. I'm fucking around with money at this point, right? Like it's,"
},
{
"end_time": 1654.77,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1637.329,
"text": " It's pretty crazy and everybody's doing it. So I just think I happen to, in my mind at the time, I'm the person that happens to be really good at this in Rome, New York. There's another guy who happens to be really good at this in Tampa and in Los Angeles and wherever else. I just happen to be the guy in Rome that's really good at this."
},
{
"end_time": 1674.923,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1655.282,
"text": " So I'm, you know, I have a question. Are you, are you married at this point? Are you living in a nicer house? Are you still living in your one bedroom? Yeah. So I went from smaller apartments to, you know, as the money's coming in more and more, I, you know, I had, you know, a nice five bedroom house in the city, but then as,"
},
{
"end_time": 1688.302,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1674.923,
"text": " As I start to be this person that everybody knows and when I tell you I'm this person everybody knows is you know I've got these I'm on I've got these stores that are in every town nearby I've got I'm on the radio all the time people are reciting my commercials to me."
},
{
"end_time": 1718.422,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1688.729,
"text": " I'm in the middle of town and that gets a little sickening when you're making a lot more money than everybody else is. You're the first person people, when they need money, you're the first person they call for a loan, first person when they need anything in the world. As soon as they get arrested, I had Rome police booking in my phone, so I know, all right, who is it this time? I need bail money."
},
{
"end_time": 1747.79,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1719.002,
"text": " So I, uh, so I'm, I'm living in a five bedroom house in the city. I go to a really nice house. That's sort of two miles out of town. And, uh, that was the last house that I, but yeah, I'm, I'm living in a nice house. I've got, you know, at the time three kids married, um, all extravagant with that shit too. Like I went to Atlantic city and got married. I was the first one to get married out on the pier in Atlantic city. They got a little mini water show sort of like the Bellagio. So I'm,"
},
{
"end_time": 1772.91,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1748.66,
"text": " Yeah, I'm doing that. I'm married. I went and bought an RV and this ends up being a money laundering charge, but I bought an RV for $205,000 and because I flew to Texas to go get it, it's nuts. So I buy a brand new 40 foot diesel pusher RV and I've got people managing this for me. I'm leaving sometimes two, three weeks at a time."
},
{
"end_time": 1792.841,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 1773.2,
"text": " I'm driving all around the country in this RV. I mean, I did a trip that was nuts. I went to the Arch in St. Louis, down to see my sister in Louisiana, over to the Grand Canyon, Vegas, LA, Mall of America. That's the kind of stuff that I'm doing at the time. And again, this is all legit. And what's crazy is,"
},
{
"end_time": 1821.783,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 1793.302,
"text": " On the last ones of these RV trips, that's when I'm starting to get some of these crazy calls in, right? Like people are, uh, Hey, uh, the health department stopped by here cause there's, it's starting to get where they're trying to come at you from any angle that they can. They tried a few health department passing things. They try, uh, they, they, they've tried a lot of different things. I had, uh, I had a couple of raids from a local police department, the Herkimer, uh, village police."
},
{
"end_time": 1843.592,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 1822.244,
"text": " Oh, and then this, the guys, the captain has me out front. He's trying to have a heart to heart. People are getting hurt on this. They're using this. They're getting hurt. And, uh, you know, me being in that mindset, I'm trying, you know, I'm out there telling them, I didn't make them do this. You're shutting down the, the ABC lounge. Is that what you guys are doing? People are getting, you know, that bar across the street sells, sells alcohol people."
},
{
"end_time": 1852.346,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 1843.916,
"text": " kill each other driving drunk like are you shutting them down like what you're doing is perfectly legal why would they shut you you know i'm saying yeah like somebody's telling him to do that"
},
{
"end_time": 1879.531,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 1852.432,
"text": " Right. And you know, you know what you're doing is hurting people, but it's by their choice. I didn't like hurt people my way of doing it. They came in and decided to purchase something and some people aren't screwing their lives up with it. They do it in a bar. They do it at a casino. 7-Eleven, like people are going, they're getting off work, going and buying two six packs, going home and getting drunk and beating their wife and fucking kids. Like shut down, shut down 7-Eleven. If that's, if that's what your real concern is."
},
{
"end_time": 1908.336,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 1879.872,
"text": " Yeah, and what is what are they? I'm sorry one more time when they come in and raid. What are they rating for? What are they saying? We're here to raid your place for what? What are they looking for? So at the end when they came in and did the raid they were they had made buys in April of 2012 and they were and that the buys that they made in April 2012 they were looking for the chemical that was in that batch."
},
{
"end_time": 1938.558,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 1908.695,
"text": " And what's crazy is when this all happens, so they end up doing 14 search warrants at the exact same time. So I am the, the Syracuse area DEA's only target. I'm the only person they're targeting. And that's because they had to do 14 of them. So you've got, you know, uh, by the FBI, all these, you know, the whole alphabet there, you've got local police, you got all these people in each one of these. When they're doing 14 of them at the same time, trying to make them simultaneous."
},
{
"end_time": 1964.906,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 1939.138,
"text": " So when they come in, they literally, I'm handcuffed. I'm sitting in a chair at my, I'm at my warehouse. There's about eight people there and I'm by the door and, uh, uh, one of the undercover DEA just comes over and he's showing me on his phone. He says, Hey, this guy, I'm like, no, I don't know the guy at all. And he's like, yeah, that's me. And, and looking closer, he's like, yeah. So I went to your store and I made a couple of buys and he's showing me pictures, the stuff they want. And I'm like, so, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1993.729,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 1965.316,
"text": " And, uh, and he's like, yeah, that's, you know, uh, it's banned now. And I'm like, yeah, well, I'm aware of the ban on, on July 9th. And you're going to see when you used to have everything here, uh, nothing, nothing here, right. Which was true. And it's crazy because they have somebody that comes in that looks completely out of place. Everybody else is uniformed. This guy comes in and I don't know who he is, but he must be something to do with a lab guy. He comes in, he does something for a while. Cause I can't see around the corner where he's at. He comes back out and he kind of shakes his head."
},
{
"end_time": 2015.64,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 1994.172,
"text": " He's looking at somebody and he kind of shakes his head and I'm going, yeah, you know, I've got the new batch. I'm aware of that law. Everything I have is good, you know? So they are just interviewing people. There's eight people there in this warehouse. They're interviewing them and letting them go one at a time. And so now it's just me there."
},
{
"end_time": 2035.845,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2015.896,
"text": " And so at the end, I'm like, all right, where, where are you taking me? I'm trying to figure out in my head. I'm trying to figure out the bail situation. What, what do I have to, who I have to call to try to get some money to come bail somebody out. Right. And, and keep in mind, they are bringing out my safe is in my warehouse. They are bringing out trash bags full of"
},
{
"end_time": 2052.773,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2036.425,
"text": " synthetic products, all kinds of weird stuff. Cash. One bag was full of cash. They took everything from everywhere. And keep in mind, the number that is in my paperwork is not the correct number. These scumbags, just a side note, it's not the same number."
},
{
"end_time": 2075.35,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2053.268,
"text": " and uh and and yes so they're taking all of this stuff out so i'm thinking for sure i'm you know it's i'm going somewhere and at the end that guy says no no no we're just we're we're sending this to the lab uh we know where to find you and uh gives me a card says you you better call an attorney that's it they uncuff me and they leave i'm going wow i'm shaking i'm like wow"
},
{
"end_time": 2102.773,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2076.698,
"text": " So I, uh, this is a crazy day. And so by the time I get out and they take my car, they take everything. They seize eight vehicles. They take all these vehicles. So I get a ride. I go home. I'm watching myself on the six o'clock news raids all over all these stores and, uh, all the feeling, the punch in the gut though. But even then it's still not like, Hey, this is, this is over. This isn't the end. This is like, ah, they,"
},
{
"end_time": 2125.06,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2102.978,
"text": " Are you are you allowing yourself to think that at some point they will come up with something and I'm what am I looking at or you thinking? No, I'm just going to keep beating them."
},
{
"end_time": 2136.869,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2125.555,
"text": " Yeah, yeah, you're always life is always about risk versus reward, right? Right. And so earlier, that's why I never got into anything hard. It's risk versus reward. The risk is high."
},
{
"end_time": 2157.841,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2137.261,
"text": " is lower than the reward I'm in, right? So it's that's what I'm always weighing risk versus reward. So at the whole time, I am never thinking that the risk is something crazy, right? Because in the end, the risk that they were threatening is a continuing criminal enterprise, right? Because you're running you you have"
},
{
"end_time": 2178.746,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2158.353,
"text": " You're conspiring with five or more people from three or more different locations to run a criminal enterprise. So in the end, that's the threat. Nobody knows that that carries a mandatory minimum of 20 years. Right. Keep in mind. Right. So I don't understand that this is the risk. Nobody knows what the feds are going to do when they come in. People know what happens on a state level because it happens all the time. And when you're from a small town like I am,"
},
{
"end_time": 2201.971,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2178.746,
"text": " There's no federal trouble there. No one ever gets in. It may be some drug thing here or there, but you don't know the inner workings of what happens when the feds come in. When they come in, they bitch slap everybody and take everything. And then they say, it's guilty until proven innocent. And, you know, you don't realize that at the time. So at the time, what do I think is the worst case scenario? A couple of years? Yeah. So they"
},
{
"end_time": 2219.462,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2202.329,
"text": " They leave, hey, you better get a lawyer. And I am, you know, I'm taking it serious, but I'm not taking it as serious as it is. Right. So I go home, feel sorry for myself for the rest of the day, watching myself on the news. Everyone's calling me. What happened? All that kind of stuff."
},
{
"end_time": 2239.411,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2220.043,
"text": " So I get up in the morning, first order of business, let's go find an attorney, right? Now I go and I talk to Les Lewis, my guy who's my favorite attorney ever. The problem with Les is he does state city stuff where I'm at. I'm being charged in federal court in Syracuse, which is 45 minutes away from me."
},
{
"end_time": 2253.166,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2239.957,
"text": " And, you know, I've always thought if you're going to go get an attorney, especially for somebody, something important, you want somebody who knows everybody in that building, plays golf with the judges and the DAs and you know, that's who I'm looking for."
},
{
"end_time": 2283.404,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2253.456,
"text": " So I'm going and I'm interviewing these attorneys. So I go into Jeff DeRoberts, prominent Syracuse attorney. He's telling me, Oh, we're going to get this thrown out. This is not the, it's unbelievable. 16 days. Yeah. You didn't even know. You didn't know. You didn't know, you know, that's it's nothing. We're going to get this thrown out. My fee is 25,000 blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, wow, okay. It's not so bad. And then, uh, then I go into my attorney that I ended up hiring, uh, uh, George Hildenbrandt and"
},
{
"end_time": 2302.722,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2283.746,
"text": " I sit down, I tell him the story, and George Hildenbrandt tells me, you're going to federal prison. He's like, oh yeah, you're going to federal prison. It's just a matter of how long. It's just semantic from here, but you're going to federal prison. And I'm like, wait, it's been 16 days. They passed a law July 9th. I'm only in possession July 16th."
},
{
"end_time": 2324.923,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2303.302,
"text": " And keep in mind a part that I'm leaving out here is they seized, you know 100,000 grams of You know product right and the only thing I'm having a problem with we had I told you the health department tried doing some weird things We had this old batch that was still legal in the state of Maine. It was only banned by the health department and"
},
{
"end_time": 2347.824,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2325.213,
"text": " in the state of New York. And we were slowly sending this batch to Maine, right? It's only civil if you have a health department. It's like a health department violation. It's not a big deal. So we're taking it and we're slowly. It's just, it's what you can fit in one little bin this much. There ends up being 8,000 grams of this batch, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 2377.483,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2347.824,
"text": " Which you never sold. But you didn't sell in the area. Never sold it. The only problem is I'm in possession of this 8,000 grams. So I go into George Hillenbrandt's office and it's 8,000 grams. So you look at this, when you have a synthetic drug case, they have to find the equivalent and they convert it to what its equivalent would be in grass. That's how they do it in the federal system."
},
{
"end_time": 2406.715,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2377.841,
"text": " I go in there and he says, no, no, no, they're, they're, uh, they're not going to, this isn't going to be 8,000 grams of that. They're going to convert this to something different. And it doesn't matter that it's been 16 days. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. You're going to federal prison. So, uh, I go, wow. And I had been to see maybe three or four attorneys, but I just liked, he was upfront. He was prominent. Everything. So, uh, so I ended up hiring George Hildenbrandt and"
},
{
"end_time": 2414.189,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2407.329,
"text": " Sure enough, as we go into the process,"
},
{
"end_time": 2439.445,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2414.531,
"text": " He's hearing from them and they're telling him that they are going to charge this as a methyl something. It's a real long name, but it's basically like ice is what they're making this the equivalent of. Why not grass? It is what it more closely represents. And they have a three tiered system that determines what this is more closely to what is more closely to in chemical structure."
},
{
"end_time": 2464.838,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2439.889,
"text": " And there's all these different rules behind it. So for example, if you took one gram of something illegal and mixed it in with 999 grams of something that's fully legal, baby powder, and you mix it in, that all becomes it. So that's the argument. And they're saying, we're going to charge this and the conversion is 347 to one. So 8,000 grams in the federal system is probation."
},
{
"end_time": 2488.473,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2465.486,
"text": " It's nothing. It's not it's not a big deal. Multiply that 8,000 times 347. It gets a little it becomes a big number, right? Right. And so what is that number 10 years, 20 years, my guideline ended up being 87 to 108. That was my guideline range for that. For that level. And yeah, so 87 months."
},
{
"end_time": 2514.957,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2488.746,
"text": " Yeah, 87 months. So it's, wow, seven years. This is nuts. But, you know, the whole time, this is what happens with attorneys. They tell you there's all these extenuating circumstances. They can, you know, there's just, this isn't like normal there. You know, we're going to have an evidentiary hearing where we're going to argue this out. So what it was, was I ended up taking a plea bargain to agree to possession of 8,000 grams of AM2201."
},
{
"end_time": 2538.66,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2515.538,
"text": " And the deal was that we would agree to disagree and argue later at an evidentiary hearing what that converted to. So when I went in to jail, it was I could get, if I win that evidentiary hearing, I could get probation time served in probation. If I lose that five, 10 years, like not good. Right. So."
},
{
"end_time": 2561.561,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2538.916,
"text": " The whole beginning time that I'm in this county jail, my life is hinging on this evidentiary hearing. So, uh, so that's a big one, right? Bring in your own expert. So we did. We hired one chemical expert, which George found, and they had two experts and only one of them shows up to the hearing. It's just crazy."
},
{
"end_time": 2591.34,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2562.125,
"text": " And so we had this evidentiary hearing and it's pretty crazy. The evidentiary hearing is you're in a courtroom and it's weird and the judge is sitting there listening to everything and you're both making your case to this argument. My attorney opens up with a screen on the wall and it is the definition of what this chemical is and it refers to it as a synthetic grass product."
},
{
"end_time": 2619.633,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2591.971,
"text": " It's now this is this this definition is on the DEA's website DEA.gov. So he says that and so they're there. He says that she's on the stand there witness and she says, oh no, that's that's outdated information. That's what we had the time. We've we've since learned that these chemicals more closely represent resemble other things and that's their argument, right? And so he says, would it surprise you to know that that's on the DEA's website this morning?"
},
{
"end_time": 2625.367,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 2620.026,
"text": " And she says, I just don't know why that's there. That's outdated information."
},
{
"end_time": 2654.155,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 2625.742,
"text": " We there's these three prongs and I forget what they are, but I'm telling you, we crushed them on on two out of three. For sure. We crushed them on two out of three. And I remember when I first hired my attorney, he had said, hey, let's let's hope we get judge heard. He he sentences drug cases very favorably. He's got a son who's like, you know, addicted and, you know, he senses drug cases very favorably. Let's hope we don't get more do. He's the senior judge in the district. He's a former prosecutor."
},
{
"end_time": 2673.131,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 2654.155,
"text": " So, of course, I get the honorable Norman Amordeau. So, yeah, so I'm in a county jail. I have three or four. You're in the county jail. When did you go into county jail? You said you went from, you had"
},
{
"end_time": 2698.797,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 2673.37,
"text": " you interviewed attorneys, you got your attorney, you had an evident, you pled guilty, you have an evidentiary hearing. Why are you in the county jail? Why didn't they let you stay out until? So, uh, so I was, they had let me stay out, um, um, from the original time. So I hire, uh, George, we go in, I do the original, uh, plea with the stipulation that will, will argue the evidentiary hearing later down the road."
},
{
"end_time": 2722.927,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 2699.241,
"text": " And at the time, oh man, I was taking all kinds of pills, you know, just whatever, you know, just it was pretty crazy at the time, overweight, just going nuts, making tons of money and not thinking too much. And when I was out, I had gotten pulled over in a gas station parking lot, and I had two of them on me."
},
{
"end_time": 2752.961,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 2723.217,
"text": " And they ended up, I stayed overnight in the, in the local city jail for that got out the next morning. Uh, they, they came and got me like literally a day or two later. The feds did the seven day marshals. You're revoked because you were coming right now. You were on pretrial release until sentencing and that violated your pretrial release. Violated it. You're done. You're getting put in as of today. So, so that's what brings me."
},
{
"end_time": 2778.729,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 2753.37,
"text": " to this county jail. I end up having, so we're, our evidentiary hearing is getting pushed off. So I'm in this, so I'm in one county jail. I'm in originally a NIDA county jail, and then a NIDA county fails to produce me for a hearing. Judge gets pissed off and says, no, bring them to this one. So it brings me to Cayuga, one that's closer, because keep in mind, a NIDA is 45 minutes away from Syracuse. So they bring me to the one that's closer."
},
{
"end_time": 2808.251,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 2778.729,
"text": " I have the evidentiary hearing from there. I have like two or three guys in my unit that are dying and waiting on seeing me because they're, they have the similar cases and now they're trying to do this to everybody. So there's a lot of people that are wondering what's happening with these hearings. Whose side are they going with? I come back with the bad news and now there's like four people, all kinds of, you know, I lose the evidentiary hearing. I get a thing in legal mail that, Hey, we've found with them, whatever. So my lawyer's telling me,"
},
{
"end_time": 2838.012,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 2809.548,
"text": " Don't worry too much about this. That obviously is terrible, but don't worry about it. We're going to make a pretty good case at Sentencing that you were running a legal business that happened to start selling these products that were just banned for 16 days before your actual date of arrest. He basically tells me there's this huge case for that."
},
{
"end_time": 2858.507,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 2838.541,
"text": " We get to sentencing and no, I mean in the federal system, you have a guideline range and that's it. That's what they go by. So my guideline range is 87 to 108. I get sentenced to 87 months. Colby's face."
},
{
"end_time": 2871.681,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 2859.053,
"text": " 8 years, right? What is 87 months? Yeah, 87 months is seven years and change three months. Yeah. Yeah, so that's pretty tough. And what's crazy is at the time,"
},
{
"end_time": 2894.616,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 2872.585,
"text": " He's telling me, don't worry, you're going to get RDAP, you're going to get this drug program, which gets you a year off. Six months if it's going to be in the halfway house, all of these things. That's all true. Now, keep in mind at the same time, right when I am charged federally, literally like a month later, I get raided by New York State, because I'm still running all these stores, you know."
},
{
"end_time": 2919.872,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 2894.616,
"text": " I get rated by New York State claiming tax evasion, that I'm not paying my sales tax. And I was behind, I was completely not paying attention to sales tax. I had Les Lewis for that case. I gave him a check for $187,000 to go perfect with it. But what they did was they basically said, hey, these first couple years where we don't have accurate returns from you, we're going to assume that you were making the same numbers these couple years as you were in the last ones."
},
{
"end_time": 2950.06,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 2920.503,
"text": " You know, which is nuts because, you know, it picked up heavier and heavier as we went. So they said that I underpaid $500,000 in sales tax, which is absolutely not true. I paid them. I did an accurate accounting and paid them. But, uh, what, so when they come in, they're basically saying, Hey, we, we can run this consecutive to your federal time. But they're saying, listen, you just plead guilty to it. And we'll agree to run this concurrent with your federal time."
},
{
"end_time": 2976.715,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 2950.367,
"text": " So I'm thinking, got to plead guilty to it. I'm already in federal custody. No problem, right? So I go plead guilty. Uh, and the judge says, I'm not going to accept this two to four that you've agreed on. No, this is half a million dollars grand Larson. It goes from 3000. The grand Larson could be as little as three. This is a way upper end of this and says, so I ended up getting sentenced to a two to six instead of a two to four. And this matters a lot."
},
{
"end_time": 3001.152,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 2977.21,
"text": " It runs concurrent. You don't get the RDAP if you've got the second charge, right? You don't get the year off. So I had a detainer. So because I had a detainer from New York State, not only did I not get RDAP, because you can go into RDAP if you have a detainer, but I also got no halfway house time. I was done with New York State. All six years had maxed."
},
{
"end_time": 3030.589,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3001.152,
"text": " In November of 2017, and my release date was May 21st of 18, they did not send the paperwork to remove my detainer till May 2nd or 3rd, like two weeks before I got out. So I had no, and then they offered to put me in for the halfway house. I had three weeks to go. You offered right now, you're going to submit paperwork right now. I have three weeks. I'm going home. So, uh, so I never got any of that. Uh, but as, uh, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 3057.261,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3030.776,
"text": " During my sentence, they came out with a law, they called it drugs minus two. So drugs minus two was everybody who had a drug case, your sentencing guideline went down by two levels. So you got what that new number was. So I called my attorney asking what was happening. He said, no, they're not going to bring anybody back for it. They're just going to run through and do everybody's. I get legal mail one day saying, hey, your sentence has been reduced to 70 months."
},
{
"end_time": 3087.5,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3057.602,
"text": " Yeah, real. So, but I knew I had it come in. Everybody knew he had come in unless you were like, uh, unless you had been a career criminal or something else. They had two caveats that you wouldn't get it, but I got it. So, uh, yeah. And you know, we're getting to the end of it there, but listen, the, you know, the, the person that I was in whenever I started this in this County jail, though, the, the person that I was compared to the person I was when I got out after doing"
},
{
"end_time": 3109.923,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3088.114,
"text": " 60 plus months in federal prison. As you know, it's completely different. You know, federal prison, it's, it's pretty crazy. Like I say, so I had the minute I got to federal prison and you tell people I got 87 months in your mind, that's a huge number. You saw what he just said 87 months want to throw up, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 3126.084,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3110.947,
"text": " They're like, yeah, whatever. That's go, you'll be out in no time. What are you? That's not worth unpacking. What are you even worried about? Why are you even upset right now? It's like 87 months. So, uh, yeah, it's pretty crazy how some of those people are, but."
},
{
"end_time": 3148.78,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3126.613,
"text": " Uh, yeah. So I, I end up, I lose the evidentiary hearing. I, I'm sick. I'm sick. They come and get you real quick too. Soon as you get sentenced, we make this huge argument. I stand up. I'm real nervous. I'm bumbling and I don't even remember what the hell I said at my sentencing, but you know, whatever it was, wasn't good enough. So."
},
{
"end_time": 3167.995,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3149.224,
"text": " I get sentenced to 87 months, you know, we're going through, I go to a couple different little county jails to something in Albany County Jail. Then I go to MDC Brooklyn. This is my first taste of federal prison, right? So this is a MDC Brooklyn is an eight story building with"
},
{
"end_time": 3197.176,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3168.319,
"text": " 8,000 inmates in this place. And it's crazy looking. You drive right through downtown Manhattan to go get in this thing. You're on a bus, you're seeing real people doing real things. And you've been in a cement bunker for, you know, a year. And, you know, so I get them to see Brooklyn and it's like, wow, this is pretty crazy. So first night, first night, they're just, you go in, you go see medical, dental, you go see all these different people."
},
{
"end_time": 3221.442,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3197.875,
"text": " And so I get done with all the medical stuff and they're about to put people in cells and they're just taking people as they come in a line. All right, you two go in here, you two go in here, you two go in here. So there's this, the two in front of me are a black dude with dreads and a white dude who is tattooed from his wrists to his neck with a big red cross on his neck, all tattooed up."
},
{
"end_time": 3249.65,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3221.834,
"text": " And the black guy with the treads is like, I'm not going in there with him. Are you, are you nuts? You're going to put in the guys like, listen, you're going in there, you two together, you're going in there. He's like, I'm not. And even the other dude's like, no, man, what are you crazy? And this guy in there telling him, listen, go get the lieutenant. I don't care where I'm not selling with him. I don't care. He's getting ready to call. I'll go in with him. So I go in with this white dude. This is my first night in MDC Brooklyn. And this dude is crazy, right? It's, this is a fun, fun,"
},
{
"end_time": 3278.814,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3250.452,
"text": " story, right? So listen, I go in there, this guy is in the middle of serving a 20 year sentence in Oklahoma State Prison. Okay, so he's in Oklahoma State Prison. He's gang related, all this stuff. He stabbed somebody got 20 years. He's he's in all these gangs. He's doing real real prison time with real prison people, right? And he was in the shoe and he used to tell he said, I can get a phone anywhere I'm at. I'm always getting these phones and I get a butt friendly phone. I'm like,"
},
{
"end_time": 3309.002,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3279.531,
"text": " Yeah, yeah, you boof it. And I'm like, you, you move the phone. Oh, yeah, that's nothing I get through the metal detectors, all this stuff. He's in the shoe with a phone. Well, he had had a previous celly that was was gay. And he had they had a phone with a celly but out out on the unit. And they were calling all these like gay chat lines. This guy was in all these they were newspapers at this time, they were calling through all these newspaper ads, they were calling these places and they were extorting people."
},
{
"end_time": 3330.623,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3309.65,
"text": " So he would go and he would call people and say, say all this crazy stuff to him, flirt with him, this, this and this. Then he would call them back and say, Hey, listen, this is detective Ronald Sanders. You've just used an FCC communications device to solicit a minor. You're in big trouble, blah, blah, blah. And he would get people to pay him money and send money to people out on the streets."
},
{
"end_time": 3361.203,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3331.22,
"text": " So crazy. So they're doing this. He's in the shoe. He's doing this. He's calling this guy. Well, he gets a guy from Connecticut who is gay. He goes through the whole rigmarole with him and the guy is gay and is scared to death that his mom is going to find out that his that's his one big thing cannot find out that I am gay and it's huge. So he's calling him. He's extorting this dude. He got this dude to send $25,000 cash in a shoe box to his girlfriend."
},
{
"end_time": 3375.742,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3361.869,
"text": " He has got this guy sending him cash all the time telling him you're going to, I'm telling you, you're going to go to jail. You're going to be busted, blah, blah, blah. They got like $300,000 from this guy whose parents are loaded. Who's living in Connecticut."
},
{
"end_time": 3391.971,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3376.152,
"text": " And he leaves the shoe and he leaves it to this other guy and tells him, give me a piece of the money that you get. You're going to pay me for what happens, but I'm going to leave this guy to you. You just introduce yourself as my supervisor. Keep it up. Trust me, this guy's good. He's going to send money, blah, blah, blah."
},
{
"end_time": 3416.749,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3392.398,
"text": " So he does all that. Uh, he leaves the shoe. The next guy gets on the guy on the phone with the guy, tells him all this crazy stuff. And the guy's not telling him he's not going to get a little bit of money. Adam's trying, trying not to give him money anymore. He says, I'm on your street right now. I'm coming to your house. You're going to jail today. Hangs up on him. So he's trying to play tough with the guy. The guy goes upstairs and off himself. Oh my God. Cause he did not. He couldn't have his mom know."
},
{
"end_time": 3434.872,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3417.073,
"text": " And so they come in, they find the whole story, they're getting records, this could find out that somebody is in a state prison and doing this. So now it's federal, they come in there, there he's being brought to court in Connecticut to answer for this. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 3454.855,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3435.486,
"text": " That's this guy's story. This is my first night in. This is this guy's story. Wow. Okay. This is the kind of people we're going to hang with. All right. I guess. And he's doing all these other things too. He's doing, he was telling me his stories from the streets before he killed somebody and went to jail. He was doing some crazy stuff that was fun. He did a bunch of rental insurance scams. He would like,"
},
{
"end_time": 3477.278,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3454.855,
"text": " He completely tattooed tattooed from here. I mean this guy you take one look at him and this guy's like he was good on the phone AB or something crazy. Yeah, he's obviously very charismatic on the phone I guess right so but he's doing everything on the streets. His story is just great. His whole life is just crazy Do rental insurance scams. He he'd scammed his own girlfriend robbed his own house and"
},
{
"end_time": 3503.404,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3477.637,
"text": " had her claim it on the rental insurance and told her after. Yeah, but I got us money, right? Yeah. Who hasn't done that one? Yeah. Oh yeah. So he's, that gives me a view of what I'm in for. Right. And then to make it even crazier. So that's the first night. Now you go upstairs to your unit. So once you pass your medical, everything, you go up to your unit. So I go up to the seventh floor, literally second day."
},
{
"end_time": 3528.865,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3504.326,
"text": " And I go up to the seventh floor and right when I get there, when you get into a unit, people are kind of wondering, what are you all about? Especially when you're like a guy like me, they want to know if you're at Chomo. There are all kinds of different stuff. They want to know what's your case? What are you doing here? What's up? They're asking all this stuff. And so I'm telling, my case is a little rare. It's not often to see people that have a similar case to mine."
},
{
"end_time": 3556.015,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3529.377,
"text": " So this guy, a young guy comes right to me. Hey, I heard you've got a, you know, an AM two to a one case. And I said, yeah, yeah. So he starts asking me some questions and really he's originally, he's asking me so he can, you know, cause people will send them over, Hey, see if that guy's really here for that. Ask him some questions. See if that's, you know, if his story matches up, if that's right. So originally it's just that. But then once he realizes that's what I'm there for, he is doing the same thing. He has an evidentiary hearing."
},
{
"end_time": 3579.189,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3556.374,
"text": " and this poor guy. So mine was 8,000 grams. His case is like 250,000 grams. It's like, I'm, I'm, I'm telling him, he's like, so what happened? I tell him the whole story of the evidentiary hearing and, and, and I'm like, yeah, no, you know, and I lost and he's doing the math on his, like, you know, carry the right fuck, like, you know, you know, not good."
},
{
"end_time": 3597.5,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3579.582,
"text": " Crazy number and so you know I depressed him for a little bit but you know so he kind of heard my story and he's like yeah you know Ross Albright's here and I go the the guy from Silk Road and he's like yeah so I'm like oh sweet so we sit down with him play a little cards now Ross was"
},
{
"end_time": 3622.108,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 3597.722,
"text": " His, his attorneys were very smart. They told them, do not discuss your case with anyone, anytime, any reason ever. You know, so me not knowing he's already told everybody this and made this very clear. So I, you know, I'm sitting down playing cards. So I want to know, is this a girl guy? Let me ask him some questions. So, uh, so I asked him about that and, uh, you know, what was going on. He's like, listen, my, you know, in front of everyone, my lawyer said not to discuss my case at all. All right."
},
{
"end_time": 3651.323,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 3622.449,
"text": " I just, that was kind of crazy. It's you, you know, this is a guy who's in the national media. They're trying to give this guy a life sentence, which they did. And, you know, here he is in the same unit as me. So it's like a, a wake up to jail. And this guy had double bunked. Everybody's double bunked, but him, his top bunk is full of books, the whole thing all the way. So I'm like, great. I literally, I, I would use the joke with them that I got to have my library card kind of daily, you know, and I just go and borrow books."
},
{
"end_time": 3680.708,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 3651.8,
"text": " In the same unit as him for a couple of weeks. Uh, you know, but that just lets you know, that's like a prequel to what you're about to see here. So I go from MDC Brooklyn to, uh, where did we stop? Cannon. And you don't know where you're going. And all of a sudden bus stops at Allenwood. Allenwood is a complex has a penitentiary medium and a low. So stops there. Boom. I'm getting off. I'm going to the medium. All right."
},
{
"end_time": 3704.377,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 3681.408,
"text": " So I go to Allenwood medium, first night I'm there, I go up there, sign you a unit, and I'm on my way to the unit. I run into this guy, Tim, that I was in the county jail with. Now this guy is, he's, this guy's nuts, right? This guy is crazy. Like,"
},
{
"end_time": 3728.677,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 3704.838,
"text": " White power racist kind of guy. He has a tattoo going all down his arm with a bunch of grenades and it says six million more on his arm. So this guy is a crazy lunatic, right? But it's crazy that I see him because when I was in, so I was originally in a night of County jail and that's where I met him. So I don't know this guy from a hole in the wall. I met him there."
},
{
"end_time": 3740.503,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 3729.036,
"text": " Well, I had not been produced for a hearing, so I go over to Cayuga County Jail. When I'm in Cayuga County Jail, I'm with two co-defendants of his. One of them, guy's name is Terry,"
},
{
"end_time": 3769.565,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 3740.879,
"text": " he's literally going to trial while I'm there. And Tim is taking the stand in his trial against him. Right. He's literally got like all the stuff from it. He's got witness lists, all this stuff, because you can't really call somebody out like that and not be able to, he's like, look, he's on all these crazy facts. And so when you're on your way to go to federal prison, you're hearing all this stuff about you better have your paperwork straight and you need your sentencing minutes and you're this and that."
},
{
"end_time": 3779.292,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 3770.026,
"text": " and so i'm i get to a medium which is crazy because this marshawn beast mode lynch prize pick is making sports season even more fun on prize picks whether"
},
{
"end_time": 3801.903,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 3779.65,
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},
{
"end_time": 3811.749,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 3801.903,
"text": " any sport on ProgePix, America's number one daily fantasy sports app. ProgePix is available in 40 plus states including California, Texas,"
},
{
"end_time": 3841.374,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 3812.005,
"text": " With TD Early Pay, you get your paycheck up to two business days early, which means you can go to tonight's game on a whim."
},
{
"end_time": 3867.875,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 3843.353,
"text": " Check out a pop-up art show or even try those limited edition donuts. Because why not? TD Early Pay. Get your paycheck automatically deposited up to two business days early for free. That's how TD makes payday unexpectedly human. It's a lot rougher than the lows and as soon as I get there, the first guy I see"
},
{
"end_time": 3895.52,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 3868.626,
"text": " I know this guy testified against somebody else. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? So he's very weird because he's he knows I went to Cayuga County jail. He knew the whole story. And he's like, hey, what's up, man? You need anything? I'm gonna talk to the store guy in your unit all this. He's happy to help. And he's like, yeah, you know, so you're you're on a 10 minute move. So I got to keep going. I got to keep it moving. And so I'm just talking to him briefly. And he's like, come out to the yard tomorrow. We got to we got to walk the track together. We got to talk, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 3924.957,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 3895.879,
"text": " And so you're not going to say, yeah, that's his worry, you know, and he's got to, he, cause you never know that bus shows up who's on it. They know my dirty little secret that I've been, you know, cooperating on somebody, whatever else. And so I'm like, damn, man. And this is nuts because I get to my unit and he is, you know, in jail, there's, you know, you got your car. So I am a white guy from upstate New York. So my car's eight guys on the compound, white guys from upstate New York. It's not, it's not a lot and he's running the car."
},
{
"end_time": 3939.155,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 3925.538,
"text": " And so, wow. Okay. So that's pretty crazy. Nobody knows. Absolutely. Nobody knows. And I'm getting there. That's, you know, first of all, I don't want to fight this guy's nuts. This guy's jacked up. He's crazy. And I'm going,"
},
{
"end_time": 3959.787,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 3939.616,
"text": " Wow, this is a crazy predicament. So long story short, I never say anything. I don't tell nobody about this guy. I don't give a shit that I'm getting there. This is none of my business. Does he ever address it to you? Like, did you hear something? When we go and we walk the yard, he's asking me questions, trying to pry who you're with, all that. Now, I'm not telling him I know because I don't even want to get into that."
},
{
"end_time": 3976.8,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 3959.787,
"text": " He asked me flat out, was Terry there? Because he took the stand against Terry. And so he's asked flat out, was Terry there? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, he was there. And, you know, but no, he never, you know, that was it. Somebody else was in his case. So I knew a few people in common."
},
{
"end_time": 3994.053,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 3976.8,
"text": " And, uh, you know, these guys were all not the, you know, he's one of the, he's doing crazy stuff, but, uh, so I get to the unit at the medium and the medium is a crazy deal. So the first speech you get somebody, whoever's in the unit that come up to you, you gotta get your paperwork. These guys were really on that."
},
{
"end_time": 4018.012,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 3994.053,
"text": " want to know who's who and they tell you basically you got to get your sentencing minutes because in the federal system you have a guideline range and if the judge goes above or below that guideline range he has to state for the reason for the record why he went above or below that guideline range so they tell me you got to get your sentencing minutes in it's got to come straight from your lawyer get it get it sent in here and when you see your name on the sign for legal mail you go get somebody they'll go pick it up"
},
{
"end_time": 4043.217,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4018.575,
"text": " So that's what I do. I tell them, Hey, legal miles here. I stuff's here. So, and they're telling me, um, I knew how to play pinnacle. So there's very few guys that I could relate to in this unit, but Vinny Gia Tino's there. Vinny is a, uh, Vinny's, uh, God, she's middle late sixties old, uh, mob related guy, five life sentences killed 60 people. Okay."
},
{
"end_time": 4057.517,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4043.968,
"text": " This guy killed 60 people you and what's funny is at the time I'm there There's a book going around the unit called the butcher and it's about his co-defendant Tommy karate who's in Allenwood penitentiary and him"
},
{
"end_time": 4086.323,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4057.978,
"text": " And, uh, so I get there. I know how to play pinnacle. He's like, yeah, come there. You know, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get, as soon as you get the paperwork in, as soon as I do, you're like six man cells. I get right in a two man cell. My celly is a guy called Johnny B, another, uh, related guy. He's a fun as hell. But so me, Johnny B, Vinny, we're playing pinnacle every day. That's all Vinny wants to do. It's got five life sentences. He's got nothing better to do. He got away from the penitentiary. His goal is to,"
},
{
"end_time": 4113.285,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4087.022,
"text": " Be left the fuck alone and play pinnacle every day and let this time pass. Right. And so he's sort of a jail mentor to me at this time. So, oh, so this is like a, a lesson and Hey, this is what it's going to be. Right. Now at the same time, my personal life is going to shit. Cause now I've been in jail a little over a year and my wife at the time had come to see me a few times, but, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4143.643,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4114.497,
"text": " You know, you knew that was coming to answer on the phone less and less, you know, some things are coming. So she's out. And then like a few days after I get to the medium, I get on the phone with my buddy Jay and he's like, yeah, yeah, she's pregnant. You know, pregnant already. That's all great. Here we go. Right. So you got that sick feeling, but that kind of motivates you. I'm doing tons of pushups. I'm getting in shape. I was a fat ass when I went in and I'm, you know, I'm doing great. Uh, you know, letting that, you know, obviously that's sickening, but you're letting that motivate you, you know? So, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4152.278,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4143.763,
"text": " So I had about a year of this right and Vinny was just the entertainment for you tried to get me not to go over to the low. He's got like a review every year."
},
{
"end_time": 4173.78,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4152.824,
"text": " Vinny is literally, this guy is one of the most entertaining people I've ever seen. I would ask him, he's, you got to get comfortable with somebody. I learned very early. You don't ask somebody how much time you got. The first time I go to this guy, this guy's telling me he's from Utica. Yeah, my case is from Utica too. He's close behind me. I'm like, yeah, how much time you got? He's like life plus 88. Oh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4201.561,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4174.906,
"text": " You're like foot in mouth. What you learn very early. Probably should stop asking that question. And then I'm coming there with poor me. I got 87 months. These people are hearing 87 and it sounds like a vacation to them. They're like, go stand in a corner on your head. Yeah, you'll just be over for, you know, what are you doing? Vinny always talk to, what are you, what are you doing? You know, it'd be over before you know it. Forget about her. Forget about all that stuff. You're fine. Sit right here. We'll play pinnacle. You're fine."
},
{
"end_time": 4205.589,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4202.295,
"text": " That was Vinny's attitude towards everything."
},
{
"end_time": 4232.824,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4206.135,
"text": " So I got comfortable with Vinny and I would ask him questions like, what would you do if they let you out? You all of a sudden got out tomorrow. What would you do? And most people would tell you some sort of life plan. He's like, oh, a few people would be real scared of that. And I tell you right now, he's like, there's a couple of people. He's like, there's a couple of people. I'll be at the door with a shotgun. And as a matter of fact, guy right now owes me money. And I tell you, you don't want to see me. I'll tell you that much, you know? And he was, he was just very matter of fact."
},
{
"end_time": 4249.957,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4233.541,
"text": " Remember when I first got there, I go up to his cell and he would point, you see this bed right here. I'm going to die in that bed right there. Right. So don't fuck around. I don't need, you know, I came here to have the piece from the politics that go on over there, but I'm not going to be disturbed in this. It's going to be a problem. I don't know. This is it."
},
{
"end_time": 4279.923,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4250.299,
"text": " So that's just the kind he was, but he was, he was the right. So I tell you, the book's going around the unit. And so he's like, I said, Hey, I heard there's a book going around about you. And he's like, yeah, did you read it yet? I'm like, no, but I will, you know, so now I'm reading the book about a guy who is a serial killer for all intents and purposes, basically working in the cell with him. Is this your celly? No, but there's only three Italians there. So I'm selling with Johnny B who's the other guy playing pinnacle with us. There's only three Italian Vicarina is the other Italian guy that's there."
},
{
"end_time": 4305.725,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4279.923,
"text": " Yeah. So Vicarina is the other guys there. Vic is old, like almost like almost wheelchair old. And there's eight Italian guys on the whole compound. These guys keep to themselves. Now by no means am I like in with the Italian guys, but I'm like hanging with them and playing pinnacle with them every day. So I'm not really like a part of their car or their group, but there's very little people that will come in. And literally the fact that I knew how to play pinnacle,"
},
{
"end_time": 4330.998,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4305.725,
"text": " and plus had money to gamble. Vinny's the best pinnacle player I've ever played against in my life. I probably lost $500 this guy. We played for quarters and he smoked me. I literally got bottom something from the store every week bottom something like, so he loved me. It's, it's, it's, it's his little entertainment. He's got five life sentences. He's nothing happening for him. So I'm what's happening for him at that time."
},
{
"end_time": 4356.715,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4332.039,
"text": " So, uh, so yeah, I, so I'm talking to them every night. It's literally where we're playing. I worked at Unicor. So, uh, I go to Unicor as soon as I find out I can do, uh, Excel spreadsheets and stuff. I'm in the business office at Unicor and as soon as I get out, it's pinnacle rest of the night all the way to 10 o'clock count. And, uh, and you know, I, everything in between, I literally cooked with these guys. Vinny was the best cook I ever seen best. This guy's already been in 25 years. I mean, it's, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4372.91,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4357.193,
"text": " His his story is absolutely crazy. He's he's pre 87 law. He's he's five life sentences. So yeah, so, man, Vinnie would all these Italian guys, they got nicknames, right? Like his nickname was Kojak."
},
{
"end_time": 4394.65,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4373.353,
"text": " And, uh, and so, uh, I said, I said, Hey, why'd they call you Kojak? And he's like, cause I always get my guy, you know, he's like, just wait, cause I always get my guy, you know? And I said, well, how come, how come they don't call you a Kojak in here? You know, like everybody else still has whatever their street name was. They're still being called that in here. And he leans over and he goes, they're still looking for that guy. Just the."
},
{
"end_time": 4422.824,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4394.906,
"text": " Tells you the kind of guy that he is. He's just just a riot So yeah, the medium is a little different atmosphere Tough to be in because you're locked in every night a lot of lock-ins one thing happens. You're done. I am My year comes up. I'm dying to get over to the low, you know Why did they send you to a medium to begin with? I had a I had an assault this this kid Matt Pritchard"
},
{
"end_time": 4451.527,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4423.2,
"text": " This kid lived next door to my sister. My sister was being an asshole, being loud as hell, but just a terrible neighbor. And he pushed in her door. My mom's there and he pushed my sister, spit my mom's face like this kid did some crazy. So I was drunk, leaving a bar early twenties. All I did was hang out in bars. I was drunk, leaving a bar and I had a little bat that I carried in the car and I gave him 17 staples in the back of his head. You know, I did actually plead guilty to a felony for that one. That was a rough one."
},
{
"end_time": 4471.357,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 4451.971,
"text": " That was early life before all this craziness, you know, but yeah, I gave him 17 staples. So that charge, I had a detainer that booster points up. So yeah, so I had an, and I had, I think 15 points, I think it's fit 14, you go to the low, I had like one or two too many, I was really close on the line. I came in with so"
},
{
"end_time": 4499.65,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 4472.602,
"text": " And and because of a detainer time put you at the yeah, but then the detainer when the detainer came off, I was like, I think I have one or zero. But I still didn't matter like like every time I get the guy when I went to the meeting every time you talk to a counselor, they'd be like, why are you here? Oh, yeah, yeah, you're gonna be here for a little bit. I was there for like three years as soon as I got to 20. They're like, we got to get you out of here. Yeah, I didn't want to leave when I want to leave."
},
{
"end_time": 4524.411,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 4500.077,
"text": " Oh, yeah, yeah, I didn't want to leave because you know very nerve-racking well because everybody talks everybody goes to low and it's open Bay and then they come back They're like bro. It's socked because it's it's loud. Yeah, they tell you there's 600 chumos on that yard. There's 1200 people There's 600 chumas venue. Tell me all the time. You don't want to go over to you'll be right back What are you nuts? There's 600 chumos on that yard. They're all rats walking around. There's just nuts. You tell me it's crazy stuff this is the thing like"
},
{
"end_time": 4554.974,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 4525.077,
"text": " I don't I didn't care about the Trump like they they keep to themselves. I'm saying like, yeah, you're never gonna be bothered by ever. There's no badass Chomo. Yes. No. Yeah, I actually I take that back. There was a guy who was like a former Marine and he beat the shit out of multiple people because guys he didn't want he didn't want to be called a Chomo. And guys every once you get somebody fuck you you fuck anybody came back all the what you're gonna fuck it and he beat the tar out of him. He actually beat so many guys asses eventually they shipped him."
},
{
"end_time": 4584.343,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 4555.384,
"text": " Other than that, though, and that was because people were attacking him or yelling at him or calling him names or being disrespectful. And other than that, they keep themselves and and so that so they didn't bother me because and they didn't go in the TV rooms like they were excluded. No rights as you would call it. They have no rights to do nothing. You go away. And I say half out of the 1800 inmates to the really between 1800 to 2000 inmates at the low. Half had charges by the time I know when I first got there, I think it was like"
},
{
"end_time": 4610.896,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 4585.299,
"text": " One third they keep arresting these guys. So eventually in a lot of people were you would you would find out like you because you kind of knew who they were and you were like if you do the numbers like it's not it's not but maybe 20 25% maybe 30% but you start to realize like no wait a minute. This guy is here for a drug case, but he has a previous charge."
},
{
"end_time": 4631.22,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 4611.169,
"text": " You see what I'm saying? Like they had previous charges. They would be like, yo, bro, I'm good. I'm here for this. And they'd be like, oh, okay. And then if you started doing the number, you'd go, you shouldn't be here at all. And then you realize, oh, wait a minute, you had another charge from the state or you had a charge before. This is your second time here. That kind of stuff would"
},
{
"end_time": 4656.084,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 4631.852,
"text": " You'd find it, but yeah, it ended by the time I was done. I'd say it was probably half. Yeah, but it was, it was half an hour. What they didn't bother me. What bothered me was it was so one, I didn't like not having a cell door closing the door because it was quiet and it was so loud all the time. It was always loud. At least in the medium, you got to walk in your door, close your door and it was quiet."
},
{
"end_time": 4681.442,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 4656.442,
"text": " I mean, is that, is that your? Oh yeah. And it had to be awkward. So if I wanted to come by, it was awkward for me to come by yourself. But in the low, it's just, you're walking right by anyway. So you could just come strike up a conversation, any jerk off anytime, strike up a conversation. You're trying to read a book or do something different. But you said, so did you, so when you got to the year and you went to the low, did you try and stay in the medium? No, no. So"
},
{
"end_time": 4709.616,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 4681.442,
"text": " Alan Wood medium didn't have weights. I think Alan Wood pen is one of the only pens that still has weights. The medium didn't have weight. Somebody threw a weight through a window. They took them from there in the low head weights. And when I went to jail, like I said, I was doing, I was doing pills when I first went to jail. I, uh, I was a fat ass. I didn't care about health at all. I, uh, I read a great book, uh, Timothy Ferris, the, the four hour work week from Timothy Ferris. Then he wrote another book called the four hour body. And it's all about just,"
},
{
"end_time": 4738.148,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 4709.821,
"text": " Hacks on your body. So I read this thing. I increased my bench press. I was, I was mentioned 320 when I got to Allenwood low. I was, uh, so I wanted the weights. I wanted to get over. It was all about when I get out and there's something about, uh, your wife leaving you when you're in there to something about that. Yeah, just that's that's sitting on your shoulder. That's great for you to have. You need a chip on your shoulder to make you go out there and kick ass. And that was sort of mine. And, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4760.452,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 4738.814,
"text": " Yeah, and funny story about that. So then I go to the low and my buddy Jay is one of my best friends in the world. I'm talking to him all the time. And I call him and one of my ex wives, best friends, she was best friends with this girl for years is at Jay's house because his girlfriend and her very good friends."
},
{
"end_time": 4788.746,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 4760.93,
"text": " So he says, hey, you want to talk to Katie? I get on the phone with her. We kind of go back and forth a few times. I get her number. I start calling her, start getting a little crazy. You got the emails I'm sending, just getting a little crazier and crazier. She used to be one of my ex-wife's best friends, and we're still together today. And so she was with me the whole rest of the time in the low, was great, sending in all kinds of stuff, bringing my kids to see me, was a great person to me."
},
{
"end_time": 4815.691,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 4788.968,
"text": " And, uh, you know, that makes you feel good ship wise too. Yeah. Upgraded. She's so much of a better person. Everything about it is just, you know, that part of it's crazy. But, uh, yeah, the, the low is a different world and people don't realize this. It's just crazy. I mean, you're only going over in a little fan. I mean, you can see the place and I get my stuff, put it in a bag and drive over to this little place, but it's you change a whole world. I tell people that about like when you go to the shoe."
},
{
"end_time": 4828.131,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 4816.237,
"text": " You think of a month's gone by it's you think of how much has happened to you, but basically just go lock yourself in the bathroom for 30 days. That's what I've done. I haven't left these four walls for 30 days. It's"
},
{
"end_time": 4848.422,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 4828.729,
"text": " It's a whole different world than your living world becomes that that that prison like there's there gets to a point where it's almost like nothing else exists other than like it's everybody you communicate everybody well occurs you're still communicating with people on the outside but for the most part like your whole world is in there I know exactly it's insane."
},
{
"end_time": 4871.237,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 4848.422,
"text": " Yeah, and you're like, this is my life. It is. It's different the day you're going there. It's like you just took up and moved and you're going to start a new job and a new life and new people. And you just left the old life behind. And so when I, when I go over to the low, I'm bringing messages from Vinny. So Vinny writes down messages. They know somebody's there. I know I'm looking for a dude, Paulie, when I get there."
},
{
"end_time": 4895.862,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 4871.698,
"text": " So I get there. So Paulie is who I'm looking for when I get there. First day, I'm going to the chow hall and I hear this high pitched, John, it's this guy Kwan, very good guy. He's from Rome, New York. There are, I have met three people ever in federal prison that were from Rome, New York. Not very common."
},
{
"end_time": 4925.674,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 4896.305,
"text": " And I happen to have known this guy for a long time. He's just there for random drug, drug charge, but, uh, as weird as it is, he's there. He's like running the whole blood car in this low. There's 600 Jomo's. There's not a lot of people that are, that I'm going to end up hanging out with. And my first, the first person that I know, which is very weird for me to know somebody in here, like if you came from a bigger city, you'd know a bunch of people. There's a lot of people that you'd run in contact with. I don't know anybody that wasn't expecting to know anybody."
},
{
"end_time": 4954.036,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 4925.981,
"text": " So that's crazy. So I asked him, Hey, I got to find a poly. I got a, I got a message from him from next door. So the guy goes and meets me on the next move and that's how I get introduced to him. So I give them the message and he calls over a guy that's in my unit. Hey, this guy's in your unit. He just got here from next door and make sure he gets whatever he needs, all that kind of stuff. But I got to meet the very few, uh, the good guys that are there from, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4959.753,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 4955.043,
"text": " That are there in the low and the low was."
},
{
"end_time": 4990.316,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 4960.435,
"text": " It's a different animal. It takes some getting used to. There's no TV rooms. The medium I was in there's there's not even TV rooms. There's TVs in the center of the units. Yeah, that's it. Like you get to the low and I would tell people it's all time. So you're you're at the lowest bunch of TVs on the wall and you got a radio and you're tuning into 103 is that TV 1061 is that TV and you have a headset in yours. It's a room full of TVs and you just pull out a plastic chair and you're watching TV at the medium. There were no TV rooms at the low. There were TV, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 5015.708,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 4990.742,
"text": " All right. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. That's what it was here. So at the low, there's it's weird to get used to because you go in there and you're like, okay, this wasn't there. It's kind of crazy. I could just come in here and watch any show and TVs are very controlled. Somebody has every TV. You're not going to go in there. You're not going to go, Hey, let me just throw this on. No, that's not happening. You're you got to kind of get in wherever somebody who has interest. If you like football, I'll go watch football with you, whatever it is."
},
{
"end_time": 5036.869,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5016.664,
"text": " So, uh, yeah. And the TV rooms are just, they're nuts. People are crazy. Uh, so, uh, yeah, this is so funny. This guy, uh, so at the low, uh, John Carnegie, uh, he's just as John's this great guy. John is actually pre 1987 law. Uh, so he's, he's, he's got parole coming up."
},
{
"end_time": 5066.169,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5037.125,
"text": " He's he's been there. He's been in prison so long. He's got parole coming up. He would tell you he went from the pen to the medium to low. You go out to the yard and there's a landfill right there and it's full. It's not even used anymore. And he's like, yeah, you see that? That was a lawn when I got here. That was they built the whole landfall, filled the whole thing over the years, bringing trash, bringing trash, filled it, sealed it and don't even use it anymore. I've been watching that since that was that was a flat lawn when I got here."
},
{
"end_time": 5076.323,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5066.715,
"text": " You're like, wow, okay. Yeah. So, so John's pre 87 law, his co defendant is Jean Gotti."
},
{
"end_time": 5106.647,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5076.647,
"text": " And he is allegedly the guy that actually shot Paul Castellano that famous Sparks steakhouse shooting. He is allegedly and it's in a bunch of books and yeah, there was, I think three shooters. It was the driver and Paul Castellano and he's allegedly one of these guys. So when I tell you this guy, you know, all these Italian guys that got something going on, but this guy's like literally a legend. It's kind of crazy. So one of the guy, one of the other guys was in the low with me."
},
{
"end_time": 5126.578,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5106.647,
"text": " He was probably in his 60s, gray hair, short, stocky guy. I can't remember his name, but everybody was saying the same thing. They were saying like he was one of the shooters. They all put on the Russian hat, and he was supposedly one of the shooters. He would never say that, but that was like the rumor."
},
{
"end_time": 5156.852,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5126.852,
"text": " Yeah. Oh no. You would never ask him that, but he is, you know, he carried himself like that. You could tell this was a guy who's been a legend his whole life. He's a John Gotti, you know, Jean Gotti is his co-defendant. John Gotti is really tight with him. He's, you know, this guy's got stories. Yeah. Yeah. But Pete, what's weird is so like John's, you know, 74, whatever he is, right? Like he was, he was old at the time and you know, you'd think somebody old and not able to defend himself. Nobody would ever think of even looking at this guy sideways just cause he just carried that kind of respect."
},
{
"end_time": 5181.391,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5156.852,
"text": " There was I was gonna say I was also locked up with two of the guys that were Gosh, what is the the it was there's a movie Donnie Brasco Yeah, two of the guys that got taken down right dot by the Donnie Brasco thing were in the medium and the show the Donnie Brasco would come on TV and and people would be like, hey"
},
{
"end_time": 5200.845,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5182.005,
"text": " Hey, Paul here. Hey, Jimmy. Hey, they got Johnny Brasco. And these guys would go, dad, they'd start screaming and hollering. I mean, sorry. Yeah, no. Well, listen, that gives me a flashback. So when I was at the medium, my my guy, God, am I drawing a blank on his name right now?"
},
{
"end_time": 5226.34,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5201.476,
"text": " Uh, Vinny. So Vinny would do the same exact thing. He was like part of the Lufthansa heist. So like he was like involved in that somehow. And, uh, he would do the same thing. Uh, this, this somebody, they may look good in the movie. He was a rat. He wasn't this tough guy. They make them look in the movie and he didn't like any of that shit. He was, he was real furious about that stuff. All they'd have a real wake up. He's,"
},
{
"end_time": 5245.623,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5226.34,
"text": " Vinny is rooting for anarchy. He wants like the world to end in the craziest way. He's rooting for something to be so bad that the United States government can't hold him anymore. Like he's looking for craziness in life. And, and what's crazy is so after Johnny B left my next cell, he started to backtrack to the previous prison. But after Johnny B left,"
},
{
"end_time": 5262.466,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5246.118,
"text": " I got John Petrocelli. So John Petrocelli was an Italian guy, real cool guy, 45 years old. He had, oh God, so John had six code defendants. They had a racketeering case and there was a homicide in the racketeering case."
},
{
"end_time": 5285.452,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5262.995,
"text": " John was actually the one that stabbed the guy. Well, so the racketeering case, if you have a racketeering case with a homicide, it's mandatory life. They came and offered them 20 years, offered them all 20 years. But with these guys, how it has to be is you all have to take the deal or nobody can. And people don't understand that because when you allocute, you say, yes, I did"
},
{
"end_time": 5300.572,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5285.452,
"text": " stab Bob, but I have to say that, Hey, I did with you stab Bob, right? You have to like, you have to implicate somebody else. So these guys can't, they all take a plea or nobody does. So everybody wanted it, but one holdout."
},
{
"end_time": 5325.469,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5301.049,
"text": " They don't"
},
{
"end_time": 5350.299,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5325.93,
"text": " so down and he just felt like a burden on everybody. He had such great people, great family coming in, doing all this stuff for him. And he's like, all I'm ever going to be is a burden to people. That's all I'm ever going to do. So you see those people, that's the life you're living there. And there's 200 lifers at Allenwood medium. There's 200 of these guys there. Then you get to the low. There's none of that. There's none of the mediums. There's people going home all the time."
},
{
"end_time": 5368.951,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5350.299,
"text": " And I don't know what the max sentence is, but it's not a lot. There's not a lot of people sitting there with still 18, 20 years left to go on their sentence when you get to these lows. At the low, I would say there were a few people that had those outrageous sentences, but only, and we were talking about 2000, there's a couple and they're old."
},
{
"end_time": 5391.988,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5369.326,
"text": " Yeah, like, because they start lowering your points when you get to be 7075. They're like, yeah, what's this guy gonna do? 20 more years to go. And he's 75. He's dying here. And he's not climbing two fences and getting through the barbed wire. And he's not and he's not stabbing. He's not hurting anybody. Like, come on, like to get him out of the medium. Let's we we need that cell for somebody who's truly going to be a problem."
},
{
"end_time": 5414.821,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5392.432,
"text": " So I'd say, yeah, it's very, very few, but most people, like, I think the average lot sentence at the medium was probably in the 20s, probably 15 to 20. And at the low, it was probably seven to 10. Yeah, it's way low in your side to be pretty high though, right? Like when you got there, because you were just gotten under the 20 to go, right? It was still"
},
{
"end_time": 5437.483,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 5415.162,
"text": " I still have 20 to go. That's crazy because when you get there, you're telling people 20 years and you're around a bunch of people that are averaging. What's worse is when you go to the medium and you're sitting at a table at the medium, you don't get to complain at all because the moment you're sitting there like, I got 26 years for a white collar crime and you're thinking you're going to get a little sympathy because when I first got there, I'm complaining."
},
{
"end_time": 5462.585,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 5438.2,
"text": " Like I realized right away, probably within a month or two, but my cut my cousin said stop complaining. Like nobody wants to fucking hear your your complaining. You see that guy over there? He's gonna die in here. See that guy? And that's what happened. I was at a table like the first couple of days and they were like, Oh, what do you hear for? Because they're trying to figure out if you're a show or not. Right. And I'm like, oh, a bank fraud. I'm like, yeah, I got fucking 26 years for bank fraud. And one guy's got like,"
},
{
"end_time": 5481.425,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 5463.234,
"text": " He's got like 45 years and then this guy is got, you know, whatever, you know, 60 years and this guy's telling me, yeah, I'm going to die in here. I'm leaving here in a box and you realize like fuck like this sucks. I'm saying like you guys are this is horrible. So I and like I said, I"
},
{
"end_time": 5500.879,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 5482.21,
"text": " A few weeks later, I was with my cousin who was locked up and he was like, Yeah, listen, you need to stop fucking complaining because nobody gives a shit about your he was nice about it. But nobody cares about your your your time you're you're gonna leave here. A lot of these guys aren't leaving here. And there's a lot of guys there that just aren't leaving all even in like a box."
},
{
"end_time": 5529.411,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 5500.879,
"text": " Yep. And they're all trying to have that level of bravado. Like they don't care, but inside, you know, it's, you know, you know that, you know, inside, you're like, Oh jeez. And you know, like the movies make it look crazy. Right. So like, she's a lot like bank robber guys. You know, you're, you're in a movie, they go in, they fire one off into the ceiling just to let them know they mean business. Then they go rob the bank. Yeah. That's like an enhancement. That's like 60 years on your side. That just changed you possibly getting a 10 years to 25 years."
},
{
"end_time": 5540.674,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 5529.411,
"text": " What if the difference between having a note"
},
{
"end_time": 5561.408,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 5541.203,
"text": " Having a gun three years ten years three years and doing this to show him you have a gun is ten. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I actually met somebody who only got three my guy Ivan Ivan was nuts and he he was just all messed up on drugs Robbed one bank got caught and he went in he slipped bank tell her a note and then he looks at her goes. I'm sorry"
},
{
"end_time": 5590.794,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 5563.285,
"text": " She tells the story to him. He apologized to me. He's very nice about it. He was shaking. He said, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry about this. So you get the light ones. But then, yeah, that's what happens. People see it on TV. You're doing all the stuff. You see somebody do it. You think it's a great idea. You go into a bank, realize you discharge a firearm in the bank. You're getting enhancements, adding 20, 30 years on your sentence. And you run into those guys. That's real. People do that. They're in there going, you're like, wow, that's"
},
{
"end_time": 5620.469,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 5591.715,
"text": " It's, it's pretty common and it's pretty crazy when you're thrust into that and you're in my situation and you think 87 months, Jesus, just for, you know, this was legal 16 days. Everybody justifies whatever the hell you did to yourself, you know, that this is, I've, I've been wrong. This is crazy. I don't belong here. And, uh, it's nice to get that rude awakening of like, Hey, listen, man, what are you crying about? All these guys are, and when you see the ones that aren't leaving, that'll make you realize it."
},
{
"end_time": 5641.852,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 5621.357,
"text": " So yeah, the low is much better than that. I found the weights, the moves, moves always happened, you know, 10 minute moves were clockwork in the medium. It was, you'd have a move, not go for three hours. You didn't know why you still don't know why it just moved. Didn't happen for three hours. You know, it's funny. You know what moves are, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 5664.565,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 5643.046,
"text": " I'm assuming you're like moving from yourselves to like the next unit or outside or something. I don't know. Right. Yeah. Well, I feel like I've explained this to him. Yeah. So like, like if you have, let's say in Coleman, you had three units, three big buildings, there's four units in each building. So, but there's three, let's say how, let's say a big apartment complex."
},
{
"end_time": 5685.964,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 5665.179,
"text": " And but the the rec yard is across the compound maybe maybe a hundred yards or or two hundred yards across so you have to walk there you believe your building and you have to walk the record or you have to walk to the education or you have to walk to unicorn right so what happens is the compounds close like the doors locked you can't get out."
},
{
"end_time": 5715.828,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 5686.391,
"text": " But once an hour for 10 minutes, they unlock the door and then they announce it and they'll go 10 minute move 10 minute news move and the CEO will open the door for 10 minutes. And so everybody all these buildings they flood people flood out of them and they're they're going this way and this way and this way and this way and you got 10 minutes because in 10 minutes, they're gonna be like or closing compound closing compound and they close the compound. If you're if they close that door and you're still on the compound, then they can they don't always get typically give you a shot, but they'll yell at you."
},
{
"end_time": 5746.442,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 5716.51,
"text": " But don't lock the door and then you're having a bang on the door to let get the guard to open it up and they might open it up and be like, what are you doing? So I'm saying and then they might write your shot. Like now you were on the compound was closed and you were outside the door and they'll write you a shot. You can lose privileges, whatever. But yeah, you have 10 minutes. So it's a it's a controlled movements. Yeah. And this is an announcement that we're hurting these cattle. We're getting everybody to where they have to go and you have to get everybody back from places. So the last move is they'll announce this is the last move. So if you're on the yard, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 5771.323,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 5746.681,
"text": " You better get back for this one. Yeah, because there's nothing you're not out here anymore. It's not a Yeah, listen, I'll tell you something. That was funny. There was a guy that was a he was a Joe. I want to say was I what I shouldn't say that I don't know. I think he was and this was that Coleman and it was almost positive. I'm 90% sure he was Joe."
},
{
"end_time": 5791.869,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 5772.005,
"text": " He had nowhere to go, right? Like he was anyway, I think he was going like to Florida and at Florida at the time, they didn't give them halfway house. So it happened though, in Florida, the halfway house is what now they make them do it. Now they have to give it to him. But they called him to R&D to leave and he doesn't show up."
},
{
"end_time": 5822.125,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 5792.79,
"text": " And they called him and called they called him for hours. Finally, they closed. They do a total recall. Everybody has to go back to the unit and they found him hiding on the rec yard because he had nowhere to go. He's like, I want to stay here when you release me. I have no money. You guys are basically like there's nobody even picking me up. You know, you guys are giving me a bus ticket like to a place to the middle of Chicago where I have nowhere to stay like I'm just coming back."
},
{
"end_time": 5847.108,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 5822.568,
"text": " And he had to drag him out, drive him to the bus thing, put him on a bus, go, you know, nowhere to go like that. That's a weird. That reminds you of Shawshank. You know, the guy in Shawshank hangs himself because he just didn't know how to deal real life. It does. But at least he got on the bus. You know, like it's it's it's funny. I mean, it's it's sad, but it's funny. I guess it would be"
},
{
"end_time": 5871.681,
"index": 251,
"start_time": 5848.558,
"text": " I don't know if it's sad or funny because it's a show but if it was but I can imagine a regular guy who's been locked up for 10 15 years and he has nowhere to go and some of those guys, you know 20 30 years like they've everybody's died giving up on them, you know, you know, we talked about this beforehand. People give up on you, you know, they give up on you you get there and like like we had mentioned that"
},
{
"end_time": 5899.684,
"index": 252,
"start_time": 5872.005,
"text": " That you really figure out like you've got you've got your group of 20 people that you're surrounded by on the street when you had money and you were a big shot and you would have said we're all got an amazing group of friends. I got you know, all these people that love me that I'm we're good friends. We're good buddies call these guys at any time they would show up and help me move they do anything help me change a tire pick me up like these are good buddies. We always hang out. We go to barbecues. We're good friends and then you go to prison."
},
{
"end_time": 5913.49,
"index": 253,
"start_time": 5900.06,
"text": " And you realize that three of those guys were friends if you're probably lucky if you get three and add those three if they stick with you for the six years where they still answer your phone call at the end of the six years."
},
{
"end_time": 5940.282,
"index": 254,
"start_time": 5914.343,
"text": " I mean, friends, not family, but you're probably doing pretty good if two or three of those guys. Yeah. And not a lot of people had that. And that was one of the worst things about seeing the Chomos too. These guys have bigger circles than anyone you know, everybody supporting them. And you're like, it makes you hate your people even worse. Cause you're like, Oh God, this guy's, you know, a bunch of kids and all everybody is, he's got a bunch of friends and you know, people are writing them, sending them money."
},
{
"end_time": 5960.742,
"index": 255,
"start_time": 5940.282,
"text": " I'm here living like a scumbag. I got nothing and this guy's doing that. I tell people all the time. It's like it really going to jail makes you realize what would happen if you died. It makes you realize that what would have happened if I would have died on that day instead of just gone to jail. If I had died same thing. I got removed."
},
{
"end_time": 5988.643,
"index": 256,
"start_time": 5961.067,
"text": " And some people moved on some people, you know, I know the ones that would have grieved and I know the ones like my ex wife who would have whatever he's gonna keep going. I mentioned this before when people are talking about their wife or wives. I've been like, well, you know, you're typically the only people and I'm not saying because I who called me. I mean, somebody sent me a text or yelled at me for this. Typically,"
},
{
"end_time": 6009.394,
"index": 257,
"start_time": 5989.002,
"text": " And actually that's not okay. They saw a short they didn't hear the whole thing the person that can't called me and this is a horrible thing to say hopefully they don't see it because it actually applies to them but they would be upset with me but it's true is that the guy the guys I know right during the 13 years the guys that went into prison."
},
{
"end_time": 6039.497,
"index": 258,
"start_time": 6010.077,
"text": " Now, if it was only a couple of years, maybe you have a 50-50 chance that your wife's going to stick around for a couple of years. Maybe she can hang. If she really was in love with you and cares about you and you have kids, there's probably a 50-50 chance she's going to hang around. But let's say you got 10 years. Unless you went to prison and you've got $10 million real estate and you can keep her in the same lifestyle as when you went in,"
},
{
"end_time": 6069.462,
"index": 259,
"start_time": 6040.043,
"text": " There's about a 99% chance she's leaving. Like if you were the sole, you were the breadwinner and she had a little part-time job and now she has to go get a full-time job and raise a kid without you and you can't provide for it. She's got to go move into a two-bedroom and get help from her friends and and like you're done. The marriage is over. You're going to be gone for a minimum of six to seven years. The relationship is one-sided now. There's nothing you can do. You're calling one time a day."
},
{
"end_time": 6095.196,
"index": 260,
"start_time": 6069.735,
"text": " For 10 minutes and all you can do is say, can you look this up for me on the internet? Can you mail me a book? Can you tell so-and-so such as I like it's a total one-sided relationship. Maybe you can put your son on the phone and your wife you read the email and you can say, why'd you get into a fight with a kid? Well, you can't do that. You have to do this. So you're just a complainer. You're just give me give me give me it's completely one-sided. So that ruins the relationship."
},
{
"end_time": 6123.456,
"index": 261,
"start_time": 6095.606,
"text": " The moment she doesn't answer a phone on a Friday night, the next day, it's a user those guys on Saturday morning. Where were you? Why didn't you answer the phone? That's horrible. So those relationships are done. But the only people that maintain their marriages were people that had $10-20 million when they came into prison were able to keep their wife in the lifestyle they were accustomed to and those wives typically stayed."
},
{
"end_time": 6149.224,
"index": 262,
"start_time": 6123.951,
"text": " Other than that, those relationships were were doomed. They were just over they were done. And I had met a guy that had been to federal prison before when I first got locked up. This is funny. I think I've told this story before. And but you'll you'll get this this guy what this guy did was I was in a I was being held in a private like a geo or so like a private facility. Um,"
},
{
"end_time": 6167.483,
"index": 263,
"start_time": 6149.718,
"text": " and I was there with him he was my celly and every day he was getting a letter or two and he'd open it up and he'd see this is when you get photos sent in he'd see the photos and he'd go and he tear them up and throw them away and he and I mean I'm sitting there in the cell and he'd be like who's I go"
},
{
"end_time": 6196.152,
"index": 264,
"start_time": 6167.875,
"text": " Did you get a letter? Get a letter? What's going on? And you go, yeah, it's my ex girlfriend. And I go, Oh, wow, bro. She's beautiful. You're lucky. That's a he got nice of my ex girlfriend. He'd be like, Yeah, thanks. He was she was very pretty. He tear him up and throw him away. And then he take the thing and he throw it away. And I and this went on. I was there for two weeks. He's getting at least one or two letters a day. And I went for this chick is fucking she is writing like every day. He's Yeah, I know. I know. She's upset. I was like, I was like, why? He said, well,"
},
{
"end_time": 6224.633,
"index": 265,
"start_time": 6197.09,
"text": " We've been dating for about four years. He's I've been in prison before I did like five years before got out. He said I actually was had a regular job. He said and I was driving a vehicle with a buddy of mine and I knew he was we were driving drugs. He's like, I don't know why I wasn't really involved in the drug thing, but I did drive him is we got pulled over the drugs are in my car. He said we got in trouble. We both got indicted whatever."
},
{
"end_time": 6244.377,
"index": 266,
"start_time": 6225.401,
"text": " He said and I played guilty and I'm getting three years and that was it like he had three years it was something along those lines where he was getting like a mandatory maybe he had a gun in the car so I forget what it was but well I think it got five years he was but I'm probably gonna do about three four years and I was like he's like so I broke up with my girlfriend I went why he said"
},
{
"end_time": 6273.541,
"index": 267,
"start_time": 6244.957,
"text": " Well, he said, you haven't really experienced this yet, but you're going to notice that the guys that have the hardest times are the ones that are trying to relate, maintain a relationship on the street is and you'll see these guys on the phone, just their guts are getting ripped out every day. They're calling their wives screaming. Where are they? Where were you last night? Why didn't you answer the phone is I mean, it's it's agony is and I'm not going to go through that is I'm not going to do that to myself. So I explained to her, I'm going to go to prison. I'll be out in three, about three and a half years."
},
{
"end_time": 6293.131,
"index": 268,
"start_time": 6274.735,
"text": " And if you're single, when I get out, we'll get back together. But if not, we won't. And in the meantime, I think you should find somebody else. You're a beautiful girl. I don't want you to waste three and a half years waiting for me. I don't want you to come see me. Don't write me letters. He was in cheese. And he'd been locked up like a month or two. He's he'd just gotten here waiting to go to another"
},
{
"end_time": 6313.933,
"index": 269,
"start_time": 6293.131,
"text": " going to his final prison, like he'd been sentenced, like he'd been locked up six months while he's waiting. Like this had been going on for months. He'd only been here a little bit. He was in the county jail before that or the Marshall's holdover. Like she's still writing every day. He's like, yeah, she's really upset. I was just like, I was like, bro, sounds like she's gonna wait. He's I know it seems like that. He said,"
},
{
"end_time": 6340.759,
"index": 270,
"start_time": 6314.326,
"text": " man, she's like, she's 22, or 21, whatever. She's a pretty girl. She'll get over it. He's like, she's gonna find somebody else. He said, I don't want to do that. He had a very, he was very pragmatic about the situation. Exactly. He may have been wrong. He may have been wrong. But he knew that he was like, even if she waited, he was if she waited, it may even be worse. He goes, you know, I'd be laying in bed, I'd be one of these guys, it was just super like,"
},
{
"end_time": 6371.084,
"index": 271,
"start_time": 6341.186,
"text": " Very matter of fact, like he knew he'd been in before he'd seen what had happened. He wasn't going to do that. He wasn't going to do it to her. He wasn't going to do it to himself. And, and I always thought to myself like that. He, he probably was the most sane person that I've met that was handling it. Probably the best way for him. Honestly, probably the best way for her too. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he just didn't want to roll the dice on that. Didn't want to roll dice on maybe she sticks around. Maybe she goes all the way through it. Maybe she doesn't, but"
},
{
"end_time": 6399.343,
"index": 272,
"start_time": 6371.408,
"text": " I've, I've had that and I know the piece that comes with, okay, that's over. There's nothing in the street to worry about. Now, when you have kids, there's always that part of it to worry about, but everything's out of your control. The sooner you get to that realization that this is out of your control, the better. Right. And it is, it's a stress reliever and it lets you say, all right, now I'm going to improve myself. Right. Which obviously you did. I'm going to, I'm going to read as many books I can. I'm going to learn and try to do as many things to improve myself. And, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 6425.811,
"index": 273,
"start_time": 6399.77,
"text": " Some people, uh, it's crazy, but some people need jail. It's part of your story. You just, you embrace it and you say, Hey, look, this was, I was a complete asshole. Yeah. I was a douche bag before. Like I'd still be, listen, trust me. I'd still, I loved being a douche bag. I'd still be a douche bag. If I could have maintained it, I would have maintained it. You know, like there was nothing changing me. Like when the cop showed up, I'm just going to another place. Like I'm just kind of like the whole, I'm changing the formula."
},
{
"end_time": 6455.316,
"index": 274,
"start_time": 6426.203,
"text": " I'm getting an I'm getting indicted or I'm getting a charge. I'm on probation. I'm just switching it up. Continue the fraud. I get this cop show up to raid the offices like I take off. I commit more fraud. I know it's coming down. I go to another locate like at any point. I could have stopped and said, let's go ahead and fix this now before it gets to be too insane. I just kept thinking they'll never catch me. They'll never catch me. They'll never catch me. By the time they do catch you. Now you've dug such a fucking hole."
},
{
"end_time": 6465.759,
"index": 275,
"start_time": 6456.22,
"text": " But only a lunatic does that. Only a lunatic does that. Yeah. Well, and so you still think the same thing, right? You still think that you would"
},
{
"end_time": 6496.203,
"index": 276,
"start_time": 6466.561,
"text": " I would have kept going and going. Is that what you? Yeah. No, I mean, like you think that you could easily be in that life if some things had changed. You're like, yeah, I loved being there. I loved committing fraud. Like I've never, I've never lied about that. I daydream about it to this day. You know, if I didn't have a thing, I got out and things went, and I expected things to be tough. Things went so well for me, but I used to say that if things tanked,"
},
{
"end_time": 6512.892,
"index": 277,
"start_time": 6496.766,
"text": " that i would commit fraud again like things got so bad where i'm riding the bus and i'm working i'm working. A horrible job i can't pay my rent and i'm just going i'm barely hanging on and like it's like you know one bad paycheck and you're losing you know you're losing."
},
{
"end_time": 6534.957,
"index": 278,
"start_time": 6513.148,
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{
"end_time": 6562.722,
"index": 279,
"start_time": 6534.957,
"text": " Every ghost bed mattress is designed with cooling in mind. So whether you want a plush or mattress that cushions your shoulders and hips or a firm option with exceptional support, your ghost bed will keep you cool and comfortable all night long. When you purchase a ghost bed mattress, your comfort is guaranteed. You can try out your mattress for 101 nights risk free to make sure it's the right fit for you. Plus they offer free shipping and most items are shipped within 24 hours."
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{
"end_time": 6578.763,
"index": 280,
"start_time": 6562.722,
"text": " If you're not sure which GhostBed is right for you, check out their mattress quiz. You'll answer a few questions and get a personalized recommendation. Even better, our listeners can get 50% off site-wide for a limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com."
},
{
"end_time": 6594.718,
"index": 281,
"start_time": 6578.763,
"text": " cox and use the code cox at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com slash cox with the code cox at the checkout to save a whopping 50% off sitewide. Like if I got to that point where it was just so bad, nothing was working, like, yeah, my go-to move would probably be."
},
{
"end_time": 6616.766,
"index": 282,
"start_time": 6595.179,
"text": " It's not so bad now because now I focus mostly on YouTube and writing and things like that now, but there were years, two, three years out of prison. I'm driving by a vacant house and I'm thinking, hmm, that'd be nice."
},
{
"end_time": 6645.213,
"index": 283,
"start_time": 6617.022,
"text": " That's a nice, it's a nice house, I noticed nobody's nobody's living in that house. You know, saying like, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm laying in bed at night, you know, calculating, but, but luckily, everything, you know, just being a doing the right thing worked out, you know, and there's a there's a certain amount of luck, things could have gone bad, but I was very proud, I was very same thing, pragmatic, very reasonable with my interest, my expectations of life, it was very low."
},
{
"end_time": 6673.336,
"index": 284,
"start_time": 6645.776,
"text": " I wish that on a lot of people that you could feel that feeling that that what really matters to you because it goes back on what I was just saying you feel like you died and you could go look back on that death and see who was there for you and who wasn't and it also lets just personally wise when everything's taken from you what is important"
},
{
"end_time": 6690.486,
"index": 285,
"start_time": 6673.814,
"text": " and you start to get an understanding of that and appreciation of having an appreciation for the small things in life is really good. Now you can sound so silly, right? It's the same shit your dad said to you. It's the same stuff that you that you shrug off your whole life. I've been like,"
},
{
"end_time": 6720.282,
"index": 286,
"start_time": 6691.101,
"text": " But the whole the whole money doesn't buy happiness. That's like the fuck out of here. Only poor people say that. Like, listen, I had all the little things like, yeah, white, whatever. And then you go to prison and you you know what poor is. And you know what having nothing is not even your freedom. You've got nothing. And and you start to realize like some of my best moments were in prison. My happiest times were in prison. You start to realize that you're like, this is insane. I have nothing. And yet I'm so happy, so content."
},
{
"end_time": 6737.978,
"index": 287,
"start_time": 6720.538,
"text": " And you've seen that there are a lot of people with it worse. And that's a great life lesson to all these guys that lifers I'm going to die right here in this bed, you know, and you know, hey, I've got a date. I'm, I'm going to get out of here. I am going to turn it around when you want it to be"
},
{
"end_time": 6751.34,
"index": 288,
"start_time": 6738.439,
"text": " This is going to be a part of your story, but it's not the whole story. The ending hasn't been written yet and what's in the middle. I always tell people life's a lot like poker in that way. Poker's just such a great analogy for life."
},
{
"end_time": 6777.039,
"index": 289,
"start_time": 6751.817,
"text": " Sometimes you put all your chips in and you lose and, you know, you need luck. You need some other things. There's a lot of things that have to happen. You go to the end of a poker tournament and talk to, talk to the person that won and they're telling you about 10 crazy hands and luck and good decisions, luck, and you have to stack that one after another. One bad move, you lose them all. But if you just continue playing great hands and doing the right thing, it's going to come along. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 6799.599,
"index": 290,
"start_time": 6777.312,
"text": " It's crazy how you learn that, right? It's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say it's funny too, because I never met one guy in prison that that when he was at his lowest, missed his Maserati. Yeah, nobody ever missed this. No, you never heard somebody say, man, bro, I"
},
{
"end_time": 6815.657,
"index": 291,
"start_time": 6799.94,
"text": " fucking miss driving my Ferrari, bro. I mean, it was always like my kids, my all the people and things that you all the people you took it took for granted before is the thing that you miss at your lowest point in prison."
},
{
"end_time": 6830.179,
"index": 292,
"start_time": 6816.049,
"text": " And all those things that you thought were so important, you realize like, I don't even think about that. I don't even think about that car. I don't even think about that house. I've never once thought about going on a vacation. I miss my wife. I miss my kids. Those are the things that you"
},
{
"end_time": 6853.609,
"index": 293,
"start_time": 6830.469,
"text": " And yet they were so available when you're out there, you just didn't appreciate them. So I mean, I think it helps you reset your, your priorities. And if you're lucky, you stick with that. And if you're kind of a shit, then you probably lose that at some point, you probably everybody starts to lose it, you have to kind of read I think you have to every once in a while, give yourself a little talk and say, Hey, get your fucking head out of your ass. You're in a good position."
},
{
"end_time": 6883.166,
"index": 294,
"start_time": 6854.07,
"text": " So what that guy cut you off, you know, in traffic, give a fuck, what's it gonna cost me an extra 12 seconds, you know, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, like, I don't care, you know, pull over, I'm driving a little too fast, I get a ticket. I'm lucky I'm driving at all. I'm happy to pay that ticket. Yes, sir, officer. I'm saying like, I mean, it's you got to get your you got to I think everyone's gonna have to remind myself like, you're lucky to be here. Yeah, and there's a great saying that I always try to remember to myself."
},
{
"end_time": 6913.285,
"index": 295,
"start_time": 6883.609,
"text": " And it's like, uh, if you let words bother you and stress you out, that is just the worst thing you can do. And everybody will have control over you because if you allow just words to do it, that everybody can speak words, you will allow everybody to have control over you. And the sooner you can take a deep breath and let things pass and having been through what we've been through, it's so much easier to do that, to take a deep breath reset and"
},
{
"end_time": 6925.077,
"index": 296,
"start_time": 6914.053,
"text": " It's going to be real hard to get back to your low point. Things have to take a real crazy turn to get back to your low point and the ability to get back to where you were and better to rewrite the ending."
},
{
"end_time": 6951.834,
"index": 297,
"start_time": 6925.845,
"text": " You know, you have that now, you know, I mean, for me, I, uh, you know, the goal is always for me is to get fuck you money. You know, people always ask you when, when's it enough? When is you had all this money, millions is that, when is it enough? When I have fuck you money, that's when it's enough. Right. And, and what is that? You know, like there's a, there's a, there's an article written about me. Uh, they called me the Donald Trump of synthetic drugs. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 6977.142,
"index": 298,
"start_time": 6952.295,
"text": " And, uh, which is crazy because like at the time he wasn't president, he wasn't, you know, he was just, he was an entrepreneur, a rich guy. And I followed him on Twitter because guess what? The guy has always had fuck you money has always been able to say whatever he wants to say. And that's the goal. When you have a private plane and some fuck you money, that's where it's at. Now I may in my life now want to get there a different way, but that's the goal, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 7006.596,
"index": 299,
"start_time": 6977.142,
"text": " So they write this story and they just assume because I follow him, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, like, uh, they assume because I follow these guys that I'm a libertarian that doesn't give a shit about the laws, you know? And, uh, you know, again, Donald Trump of synthetic drugs. So I'm, you know, one, I mean, Donald Trump's an entrepreneur. He's not a, that's crazy. Before he was even president, these guys are trying to blast him and blast me for being a person that follows them. But there's something to be said for that."
},
{
"end_time": 7032.671,
"index": 300,
"start_time": 7007.005,
"text": " Is that not the goal? Right? I mean, I mean, it'd be nice. It'd be nice. But when everybody says when is enough enough, when will you say you've got there? I mean, that's it. I don't when I have I was gonna say I don't. I don't know. It's like someone who said you ever hear these guys. Oh, if I won the lottery, I quit my job. Well, whatever. If I won the lottery, I don't think if I had"
},
{
"end_time": 7063.234,
"index": 301,
"start_time": 7033.626,
"text": " $20 million. I think that Colby would be here next Tuesday and we'd be doing a fucking, you know what I'm saying? Like I like my life. I don't think that money would, I'd have a car. Nicer car, nicer house. Still do the same thing every day. I told my wife one time, like I optioned my life right. And she goes, what if they make a movie? Like, what if you make a bunch of money? What if this happens? And I went, I don't think much would change. And she goes, you don't think so? I said, well, I think we'd have a little bit nicer house."
},
{
"end_time": 7084.514,
"index": 302,
"start_time": 7063.865,
"text": " I think we'd have a little bit nicer cars, but I don't think anything would change because I'm doing everything I like right now. I don't think anything would change. Maybe a little less interviews and just only pick the very best. Probably would up our game a little bit."
},
{
"end_time": 7112.073,
"index": 303,
"start_time": 7084.991,
"text": " I'd have a little bit more time than maybe what? Scroll on TikTok? What's going to change? I'm going to go on vacation an extra day. Honestly, if you go to the Keys, four days is enough. You know what I'm saying? The truth is, it's like, oh, I'm going to go on two weeks. You've been on a two-week vacation? You better be traveling because you can't go to, well no, Venice. You could probably go to Venice. There's a lot of museums in Venice."
},
{
"end_time": 7139.172,
"index": 304,
"start_time": 7112.363,
"text": " I don't think two, still two weeks is too much. You've got, you better be traveling. I'm saying like you can only vacation so much before it gets to be a pain in the ass. And you're like, I just want to go home for six months or something. I just, and even then, what are you going to do if you don't have a job? What are you going to do? Sleep late, catch up on my Netflix. Okay. There's two months. Now what? Like, no, I think it'd be now what I got to start my YouTube channel over again."
},
{
"end_time": 7161.903,
"index": 305,
"start_time": 7139.923,
"text": " And this but that's not when I say like a few money mine wouldn't be so that I can turn around and not do anything The f you money is to go impose my will on the world and I'll give you an example, right? I'll give you an example Elon Musk sold his interest in PayPal. He got I don't know somewhere near 200 million dollars for this, right and"
},
{
"end_time": 7190.674,
"index": 306,
"start_time": 7162.21,
"text": " You can go buy an island. You can go buy a couple million dollar island. You can, that's some F you money, right? What did he do? He went and spent, just bet on himself. That's what I mean. When I say F you money, that is, you go and pose my will on everything, every way. It's, uh, what you're saying that, that I've misunderstood. It's funny. You use Elon Musk because I, I, I like I'm fascinated. Like I am too. I'm fascinated because I always think"
},
{
"end_time": 7208.456,
"index": 307,
"start_time": 7190.981,
"text": " And I've Pete knives, my buddy Pete, and I've thought about this, where it's like, if you if you gave me $200 million, I would probably do a lot of things. But the one thing I probably wouldn't do is think how can I further humanity? Right?"
},
{
"end_time": 7229.189,
"index": 308,
"start_time": 7208.916,
"text": " I'm saying like, how can I we go to them? How can we it's like, like you're, you're on some next level shit. And would you bet every penny of that? Can you imagine that? Have you seen the Netflix documentary about the space? Oh, yeah, came over this guy is watching rex of rockets. And this guy's got a set of balls on him."
},
{
"end_time": 7251.34,
"index": 309,
"start_time": 7229.445,
"text": " He's all in everything. Tesla was the same way every time he's gone into something. He's almost gone bankrupt multiple time borrowing multiple months. You're betting everything you've got and it's been multiple times his bets have paid off. But still the same thing is I'm going to start and the things that he's taking on are"
},
{
"end_time": 7281.664,
"index": 310,
"start_time": 7251.817,
"text": " It's insane. Who the fuck thinks I'm going to build, I'm going to build an electric car that nobody's building. I'm going to make it affordable and yeah, but there's no way to generate them. Well, then I'm going to build a series of generation areas where you can regenerate or recharge the car. And are you out of your fucking mind, bro? None of that's going to happen. And then no, I'm going to build rockets and we're going to go to not to the moon, not to outer space and build maybe"
},
{
"end_time": 7311.357,
"index": 311,
"start_time": 7282.125,
"text": " Maybe like a hotel that people could go and do kind of like a tourist thing. No, no, we're going to go all the way to Mars, which is about 2000% harder than going to the moon. And we're going to do that. And we're going to build a city of a million people, because I think we need to do that, just in case something goes wrong here on earth, like you give me 200 million. And honestly, I'm, I'm probably going to do some stuff, but it's more entertainment based for me, I might build some stuff, I might do a little bit of stuff. But"
},
{
"end_time": 7333.302,
"index": 312,
"start_time": 7311.715,
"text": " It's furthering humanity and saving the environment is not a part of my agenda. Yeah, I'm buying Twitter because he feels like like there's not enough free. There's not a free there's too much censorship. I'm buying Twitter. No, like that's insane at a price higher than anyone else would. I don't care. But what's crazy that he's he has a story about that they ask him"
},
{
"end_time": 7359.872,
"index": 313,
"start_time": 7333.848,
"text": " The guy tells him, hey, listen, I know why you're going to fail. And he says, well, really? Well, tell me. And the guy says, the reason you're going to fail with this Tesla deal, the reason you're going to fail is because all of these legacy automakers, they make almost 40, 50% of their money comes from selling the parts on the older vehicles. That's where 40 to 50% of their revenue comes from. And you don't have any older vehicles to make that revenue from."
},
{
"end_time": 7389.821,
"index": 314,
"start_time": 7360.213,
"text": " So you're going to fail. You don't have, they've got a model that you can't repeat. And he said, Oh, okay. Well, watch this. And instead of doing what they did, he went and figured out a way to manufacture and, and increase that process. Whereas margins were big enough to cover not having those. Right. And what one of those was I'm going to, I'm going to build a vehicle and we're not going to spend 20% of the, of the profit margin on advertising."
},
{
"end_time": 7418.916,
"index": 315,
"start_time": 7390.35,
"text": " Like, then how are people going to buy your vehicle? Well, we're just going to hope it's organic. We're not going to we're not going to like Are you ready? Listen, every that is as dumb of an idea as the guy that walked into the first meeting and said, 30 years ago and said, Listen, let's bottle water. Everybody at that table had to go, who the fuck let this guy in? What are you talking about? We're going to bottle water, and we're going to sell it for more than soda."
},
{
"end_time": 7447.705,
"index": 316,
"start_time": 7421.22,
"text": " Who let him in? How many meetings did he have to go where people where he was laughed out of the meeting, until somebody said, Well, let's look at this again. Well, how was I don't? Okay, well, we could try it on a small scale, maybe. And I don't know about you guys, but bottled water is tremendously fucking profitable. It's the dumbest fucking idea. And where most of the bottled water comes from now,"
},
{
"end_time": 7471.032,
"index": 317,
"start_time": 7448.08,
"text": " They're taking it right out of the tap. They're filtering it and taking it out of the tap. And they're still selling it to me for a dollar and 80 cents. Are you out of your fucking mind? I mean, that's an idea that like is the it's the dumbest thing ever that turns into Elon Musk has had multiple stupid ideas, in my opinion, that have made billions of dollars like, and I'm sure every time he pitched it,"
},
{
"end_time": 7500.657,
"index": 318,
"start_time": 7471.459,
"text": " It even when he talks about Tesla stock and people like what about Tesla stock like you feel like it's it's a good value. He's like, it's really overpriced. I mean, you're like several times. This is your company. Don't say that. What are you doing? And he's he's like, yeah, I don't know why it's so high. I don't it's it's really over because you do the cost analysis and you start breaking it down. You're like, what are you doing? I mean, he's very honest about just everything involved and it's and I think it's part of that honesty."
},
{
"end_time": 7522.944,
"index": 319,
"start_time": 7501.254,
"text": " is why so many people back him and love him. And that's the F you money we're talking about. Remember, they were the boycotters. We're talking about boycotting Twitter. Okay, that's what you're saying. I would love to have F you money. So they say we're going to boycott Twitter. Remember that? They're going to boycott Twitter. He comes right out and says, if you think you're going to use money to manipulate me,"
},
{
"end_time": 7541.92,
"index": 320,
"start_time": 7523.234,
"text": " Fuck you. Says it right out to anybody who thinks if you're not going to advertise on my platform, you got the wrong guy. What was the other thing? He used the Princess Bride analogy where you're seeing the Princess Bride. I said where he goes. Yeah, he does the whole thing where he says offer me money."
},
{
"end_time": 7568.643,
"index": 321,
"start_time": 7542.551,
"text": " offer me like he starts telling that he's about to he's fighting the guy he's gonna kill him. And the guy's begging and he's like, offer, like beg, always a bag, you offer me money, offer me fame, offer me that he's like, offer me these things to spare your life. He's like, it doesn't matter. But I'm dying for you to offer me these things. You got he talked, Elon Musk does that he goes, during a thing where they say, Well, what do you think? And he goes, it makes me think of the Princess Bride, which is a kids movie."
},
{
"end_time": 7594.326,
"index": 322,
"start_time": 7569.121,
"text": " He goes, when the guy says, offer me this, offer me that, he's like, I don't care. That's great. And he even says, too, when he says, oh, yeah, like, they stopped some big advertiser, and he's like, yeah, he's like, it'll probably bankrupt us. Yeah. He's like, but I'm not going to not do or follow what I think is right. So yeah, we'll bankrupt. Yeah, probably. You'll probably bankrupt us. That's fine."
},
{
"end_time": 7620.725,
"index": 323,
"start_time": 7594.718,
"text": " And if you ever want to have a few money, if that's not your idol, if that's not who you want to be like, that's how you get there. You out-execute everybody else. That's what he's done on every level. He out-executed the United States. He out-executed us and we're paying for rockets. He made them reusable. He made them for 10% of us. How big is our budget? He out-executed."
},
{
"end_time": 7635.418,
"index": 324,
"start_time": 7621.169,
"text": " the United States, I mean, listen, when those things were coming down and crashing one after another after and now, now when they do it, it's, it's just like, it's insane. The other thing is was the the boosters were supposed to get"
},
{
"end_time": 7664.77,
"index": 325,
"start_time": 7636.152,
"text": " I think 10, he figured 10, you could get 10 uses. Some of these things have done like 22 times, like they've gone up over and over. He's like, oh, it's like, he's like, there's no way this one's not gonna, there's no way this one's gonna land. This is the 22nd time it's gone, whatever that is, whatever that number is. And they're outperforming even what they were hoping was the best was like, we were hoping to get 10 or 12 uses out of them. This one's been used 22 times. And there's still no landing and landing. Like they've got it down landing."
},
{
"end_time": 7692.193,
"index": 326,
"start_time": 7665.503,
"text": " Yeah, and then you're using that to create another billion dollar company. So now you go put the satellites up there. Now you have internet everywhere. You can be in the middle of the desert. You got Starlink to your phone. So you use SpaceX, your second billion dollar company, you know. Well, you know, he's also got the boring company. He's got the one with the, he's got all of that. It's like everybody's like, you know, why are you, why a boring company? Why, why would you, I don't understand how that, okay, well, if he does make it to Mars,"
},
{
"end_time": 7715.128,
"index": 327,
"start_time": 7692.193,
"text": " The bulk of civilization is going to be underground for a long, long time. Will there be Glass Dome City someday? Sure. Maybe we've seen Star Trek. Yeah, maybe in 200 years, but for the majority of them, or you're going to have to bore, you know, through the ground. And he's guess what? I happen to have a boring company. And if you're getting these, these rockets up there, and if you've ever watched, they said like the first"
},
{
"end_time": 7742.039,
"index": 328,
"start_time": 7716.101,
"text": " Is it trillionaire or something like that one of the first trillion somebody I'd seen one of these where they were like the first trillionaire will be the person that figures out how to go to the asteroid belt grab one of these asteroids and get the minerals and bring it back and it doesn't take much putting a couple rockets a couple of pushes to pull it out and you can pull it right into orbit in the around"
},
{
"end_time": 7766.613,
"index": 329,
"start_time": 7742.261,
"text": " The moon or around, well, Mars or the moon or whatever, and just use it. Most of those asteroids, not most of them, but lots of those asteroids have as much raw material for metals on one of those asteroids as we do on all of Earth. So they can easily, whoever gets that, guess what? That just, you just"
},
{
"end_time": 7782.381,
"index": 330,
"start_time": 7767.5,
"text": " How rich are you now? Who knows what else you find there? Yeah, who knows? We don't know about something that's, oh, look, this thing does, it's 20 times stronger. I'll tell you what, that happens. You don't want to be having a ton of your money in precious metals, that's for sure. Better dump all that stock immediately."
},
{
"end_time": 7811.357,
"index": 331,
"start_time": 7783.422,
"text": " But yeah, he's I'm I'm fascinated. I watched tons of stuff on on colonizing Mars. I watched it all the time. My wife laughs about it. I am a nerd as well. I'm a nerd with anything to do with Elon. I'm just I'm just fascinated with people who have outdone other people, you know who they have a ton of people trying to do what he's done. He's done it better than everyone else. I mean, you car companies were some of the biggest companies in the country and he came in and competed in a space that was"
},
{
"end_time": 7839.189,
"index": 332,
"start_time": 7812.09,
"text": " Really crazy. What about I wonder about these, these Tesla bots, like initially when they come out, it's like anything when you first come out, like they're not great. But in five years from now, they're going to be fucking 10 years from now, those things are going to be amazing. The first generation or two is never the best, you have to work out the kinks. But Jesus, those things in five years after they first hit the market, they're going to be they're going to be 1010."
},
{
"end_time": 7849.838,
"index": 333,
"start_time": 7839.906,
"text": " It's going to be fun. They're going to be knocking on your door trying to sell you aluminum siding or something or solar panels or you're going to be like, it's going to be like a normal human being."
},
{
"end_time": 7877.261,
"index": 334,
"start_time": 7850.179,
"text": " yeah it's gonna they're gonna be insane that that would be crazy you walk into a factory and it's all robots but not in the traditional sense of a big arm robot it's actual walking around robots and they don't need a lunch break they don't need no imagine you saying what benefits what thirty forty thousand dollars so i can pay a human seventy thousand a year to do this job or i can just buy two of these robots that work 24 hours a day that's gonna be a problem you know that's gonna be yes"
},
{
"end_time": 7890.23,
"index": 335,
"start_time": 7877.602,
"text": " But once again, you're gonna he's gonna and he's already said, oh, the robot thing will be it'll be a much bigger moneymaker than anything else I have got going. Yeah. And can you imagine that that's that's that's what I mean by saying I want to"
},
{
"end_time": 7920.23,
"index": 336,
"start_time": 7891.049,
"text": " I want to get on that stuff now. I, you know, I'm fascinated with that in a way that I never did. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm from a small town and, and nothing changes there. Right. I've told you that nothing, nothing changes there and you get three more buildings. Yeah. You know, it's the rest of new Starbucks is the excitement of the town. Right. And when you don't get away much, you don't realize what's happening in the rest of the world and the rest of the world, crazy things are happening. You know, you go to Las Vegas, you go back two years later and"
},
{
"end_time": 7946.971,
"index": 337,
"start_time": 7920.23,
"text": " There's crazy stuff there, you know. The rest of the world is doing these crazy things and unless you get out a little bit and see what everybody's doing, it gives you that, you know, for me, it gives you that thirst to get out and do more, you know. That's kind of what I thought I was doing. I was scouting locations in Ohio. I was going to move this chain to like, you know, I was going to go to 50 stores really, really quick, you know."
},
{
"end_time": 7970.196,
"index": 338,
"start_time": 7947.329,
"text": " Uncle Sam put a stop to that. Uncle Sam put a stop to that one. But, you know, that's why, you know, nowadays, I wouldn't go back to the same thing. I, you know, I've got, got five kids. That's crazy. I can't go. I've got five kids. I can't be doing anything. It's going to bring me to jail. You know, I've got a little four year old. So it's crazy. Me and Katie. So we've got a,"
},
{
"end_time": 7992.534,
"index": 339,
"start_time": 7970.589,
"text": " a four year old daughter. So I actually have a grandson that's one year, one years old, right? And it's crazy. We went on a little vacation and come back and oopsie, you know, so I have all my kids are in their twenties. I have, I have three kids that can drink, you know, and now a four year old, you know, oopsie comes along. But it, you know, having a kid later in life that's young like that, it, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 8015.009,
"index": 340,
"start_time": 7993.029,
"text": " It keeps you young. But after all that I've been through, I've, you know, I'm in a place now where I would never do something for a living that I can't bring my kids to. You know, I mean, I was always in the gray area, but even smoke shop ish, I just, there's so much out there. And you learn this, like you were a person that went and read a bunch of books and you learn about the world and you say,"
},
{
"end_time": 8042.329,
"index": 341,
"start_time": 8015.367,
"text": " Well, I don't have to do that anymore. You know, I don't have to do something that's in a gray area. I don't have to do something that I can't bring my kids to work. Now, I'm not doing anything that I can't bring them and show them and you know, that I can't be proud of, you know, in that way. So, you know, learning, you learn about the world to go into going to prison because you meet people from everywhere doing everything stuff you can't even think of, you know, how you've been out."
},
{
"end_time": 8057.005,
"index": 342,
"start_time": 8042.534,
"text": " I got out in May of 2018. So I did my three years on post release. I immediately knew I wanted to go to a business friendly state with no tax. I went to Dallas in"
},
{
"end_time": 8074.718,
"index": 343,
"start_time": 8057.278,
"text": " Tampa went, you know, it's going to go to one of those two places. Uh, I went to Dallas and there was an ice storm, the worst ice storm they've ever seen in a hundred years, the week I was there. And then I came to Tampa and had beautiful trip. Last, last day was Anna Maria Island. Fantastic. And I said, this is where I want to be."
},
{
"end_time": 8104.206,
"index": 344,
"start_time": 8075.265,
"text": " So, uh, so I'm, I moved to, you know, cause now when you're off the post-release supervision, that's it. Uh, no babysitter. Now it's time to go hard. Now it's no babysitter. It's go time. Uh, you know, I came, I came down here. I was, uh, was doing a CBD business at the time I was making these honey sticks and these other, uh, uh, products went to a trade show and this, this guy was selling, uh, uh, freeze dried ice cream sandwiches and I was buying them and people were buying them like crazy."
},
{
"end_time": 8120.862,
"index": 345,
"start_time": 8104.735,
"text": " doing great, you know, and it was dropped with CBD on them, you know, so they were they were selling like crazy. And so I originally got the first machine to to try to replicate and fill the orders he couldn't fill. At the time, I didn't realize why he couldn't do it. But one run takes you an entire day to do."
},
{
"end_time": 8140.538,
"index": 346,
"start_time": 8121.101,
"text": " in this freeze-dry machine. It looks just like your dryer, you know, and you load in trays of food in there and it takes all the water content out. So an ice cream sandwich turns into like a styrofoam brick looking shape, but you couldn't leave it out. You can seal it in plastic as long as you don't let it get exposed to oxygen. You can leave that out for 10 years and still eat it, you know, room temperature."
},
{
"end_time": 8170.077,
"index": 347,
"start_time": 8140.828,
"text": " So that's what they do with space food. So that's why freeze dry products have become so popular because the shelf life is amazing. You know, you get something that's chocolate, you got to move it nonstop. The shelf, like the heat, the, you know, different things. So, uh, so that's, you know, I, uh, I was supplementing that I got my first machine to sort of do that. And then I started maybe me testing everything, you know, having everybody try all this different stuff. People were trying skittles, lemon heads, all these different products and loving them like, Oh, this is fantastic. You know,"
},
{
"end_time": 8200.384,
"index": 348,
"start_time": 8170.589,
"text": " So I knew that was it. Like I say, you got to find the thing that's that's all I've been looking for. Find the new thing, something that interests me, but yet is that I know is it. So I was onto it before anybody else. Fuel on the fire, you know, poor fuel on the fire on that. And, you know, I went from, you know, a little 1200 square foot building to, you know, three decent sized buildings. You know, I've sold products to thousands of stores, probably in about 4500 stores."
},
{
"end_time": 8229.36,
"index": 349,
"start_time": 8200.794,
"text": " And, uh, making my own candy now doing, uh, doing, uh, some pretty crazy stuff, you know, trying to get innovative and doom, you know, expand that. And, uh, you know, when you, when you get out and you have nothing and you're starting over from scratch again, you just need that one little start. And some people go back to something crazy cause that's, they can't get that, you know, that once everybody always tells yourself that, right? Like I just need that like a hundred thousand to start up with something, you know? So, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 8256.63,
"index": 350,
"start_time": 8230.23,
"text": " You know, uh, now that I've gotten into this, I, I, I, I poured fuel on the fire of that and doing really good with it. So, Hey you guys, John is thinking, Hey you guys, John is thinking about sponsoring this, the podcast. I don't even know what I'm supposed to say at this point. So buy some of the candy. So right. Did I? Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to use this as the fucking thing?"
},
{
"end_time": 8286.8,
"index": 351,
"start_time": 8257.142,
"text": " All right. Hey, you guys, John is thinking about sponsoring the podcast. So do me a favor, click on the link and go buy some of the candy. It's really good. It's free drop. It's really good. It's freeze dried. Actually, I, I love I love red hots. These are like red hots, right? They blow them up. You know, he puts them in the thing and blow them up like they're good. I love right out. No, I love"
},
{
"end_time": 8300.538,
"index": 352,
"start_time": 8287.637,
"text": " You know what else I love which these are red hots, I love red, love red hots as a kid. I love red hots as a kid. You know what else I love which he's got, which is lemon heads. I didn't even think they made lemon heads anymore, but they're delicious."
},
{
"end_time": 8325.998,
"index": 353,
"start_time": 8301.015,
"text": " hey thank you very much for watching the video do me a favor hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this also please consider joining our patreon it's ten dollars a month and it really does help colby and i uh make videos like this we'll leave all of bliss life's uh links in the description box so you can go in there and click on that and check it out and um maybe in the future we may be doing some ads for freeze-dried candy bliss life free dried candy bliss"
},
{
"end_time": 8341.527,
"index": 354,
"start_time": 8326.186,
"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store."
},
{
"end_time": 8369.821,
"index": 355,
"start_time": 8344.991,
"text": " It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home."
},
{
"end_time": 8394.855,
"index": 356,
"start_time": 8370.418,
"text": " A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts."
}
]
}No transcript available.