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Tech Millionaire's Plan to Save Humanity with Longevity Protocols | Bryan Johnson
May 15, 2024
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Brian Johnson, there are broadly two spokes of this longevity movement. So one is the more technical research type, which talks about autophagy and mitochondrial DNA expression, technical terms. And then there's the more YouTuber influencer type about, well, let's live in a healthy manner. And some people see you as bridging the gap between both of those. Do you agree with that? I'm proposing that
None of us should actually think about our health and wellness. I think it should be a process of computation and automation. And this is the observation that Alfred North Whitehead made, the mathematician, that society advances at the speed at which it can automate things.
And so we have Moore's law and we have other markers that we try to look at progress. I think it might be interesting if we had an automation law. What is the speed at which society is automating tasks that previously required our attention but no longer do? For example, like basics we do on a day-to-day basis. Clean water comes out of the tap. Neither you nor I
Wonder whether that water is going to kill us now, maybe dirty to some degree. It may not be the purest thing ever, but it's probably not going to kill us. At least not right now. And when you look throughout society of the automated tasks. And so yes, for the for an entry point, I do talk about things that are within people's immediate control. Eating well and exercise, but what I'm really trying to demonstrate is that algorithms are systematically doing things better than we can as humans, and it makes sense.
So you know how many people talk about the dangers of the algorithm, the algorithm of Google or YouTube or Facebook or whatever it may be. Do you see then a similar danger of the of some algorithmic
Yeah, I mean, there's a few potential dangers. I mean, one is you have to realize that the reason why people are justifiably apprehensive about algorithms is because the entities that develop the algorithms are in many regards killing you. So when they build an addictive app,
They're not keeping metrics like, you know, oh, we're so happy that this user got eight hours of sleep. They're saying we're able to get this person onto our app and we're able to keep them on there for blank number of minutes uninterrupted. And so they care about the metric internally that they brag to their coworkers about of how long they were able to keep your attention or inside of, uh,
A junk food company, they're bragging about the potato chips they sold or the candy bars they sold or whatever the case may be. And that's what they cheer and they celebrate. And so we have this culture behind all these algorithms, whether it be junk food or addicted social media, where these companies are celebrating your death.
And it's not said that explicitly usually because it's rather benign of like, Oh, we're just doing capitalism and we're giving people option to be entertained, but it really is a death culture. And so people are justifiably suspicious of algorithms because that's what they've done. And so it's easy for them to say like, if that, if they're trying to kill me in these other ways, like why in the world would I give them access to my health when they've shown that they've want nothing but the worst for me. Speaking of algorithms. So speaking of automating,
What are your daily uses for LLMs? We are implementing our first LLM right now. So up until this point, we've largely been tracking data in spreadsheets. We haven't done all that much data analysis. There's just not a lot of room. The data we have is pretty sparse. And so the LLM we're building, basically, I say that the blueprint is an algorithm that takes better care of me than I can myself.
The premise behind this is that we see algorithms getting better at pretty much everything in society. And we systematically say yes to these things. For example, can an algorithm help me find better content? Okay, great. Can it help me write this sentence better? Okay. So we say yes in all these incremental fashions.
And then slowly it's going to get to a point where the algorithm is going to become better at being you than you are. You just mentioned two words blueprint and then data briefly for people who are unacquainted. What is the blueprint? And then my second question is
Is there a place where people can find the data that you have on yourself as one of, if not the most measured people on the planet in some readily readable fashion as people, as many of your fans have to then comb through old interviews to find out what has he said about so-and-so? Yeah, it's protocols.bryanjohnson.com and I have the data listed out according to Oregon, you know, lungs,
And so I tried to take that feedback. We just put out a product and it's 74 interventions into 400 calories. And I think it's the best health protocol ever built.
And so I say this, people can go to my website, protocol.bryanjelson.com. They can see exactly what I do, the supplements I take, the foods I eat, and they can implement the entire thing. So it's available for free. Also now, they can buy for $343 the entire stack, and it just shows up and it's ready to eat and drink, eight pills a day. So I'm trying to basically build out this algorithm
So it's easily doable by everyone at the most basic level. So this is the starter point and we'll slowly work up. What would you say, Brian, is the the largest misconception that people have of you? Or every once that you've encountered, OK, like literally everything. I mean, this is the most common experience I have where. I will be in person with someone.
And if we have any kind of time together, they'll say, I predictably, wow, I really had the wrong idea about you. You're actually a pretty chill dude. Your ideas are compelling. This is interesting almost universally. And I guess like it's, it's been like the, the,
Getting the attention of the world has, uh, has certain characteristics. You can't just walk into the global conversation and speak to really heady stuff. You have to kind of talk, use the language, the local language, mimetics and, and stuff like that. But I think we're slowly working, chipping away at making this more understandable that, you know, blueprint, um, blueprint is basically an invitation
for us each to say that we may be at a point in time where we are invited to let go of everything we think, expect, assume, and imagine. Okay, well, this takes us to some philosophical terrain.
Well, I'm curious what your view is on the nature of reality. I think that up until this point, we humans have been the generators and the stewards of knowledge. We discover things, we learn things, we memorize things, and we teach others things. We collectively maintain this intelligence.
So we are the managers of knowledge. And AI has now become a better manager of knowledge. AI knows more things than any human knows, these large language models. And these LLMs are also getting pretty good at discovery in certain vectors. And there's this trajectory where they probably are going to get substantially better. And so we're currently transitioning from
Knowing all things are knowing what we do know to not knowing not being the steward of it. And so this is to me The most significant transition that's happening is that we humans are moving from a species of knowing To one of not knowing or at least needing we need to ask to know but we're not the primary owners that knowledge and so when it comes to questions like what is reality and
Before you could pose that question and it would be socially appropriate for a human to say, well, let me tell you about my understanding of reality based upon that person's education or knowledge. In a very short period of time, I don't think it will be culturally or socially appropriate for a human to say that because they'll be so outmatched in knowledge relative to AI that it just will be seen as foolish.
And so in this moment, I would say that it's really not my interest of using words to try to expand on reality. I'm saying that my objective as an intelligent being...
In this moment has been reduced to trying to stay alive and don't die. So I can bridge myself into this new reality, whatever it may be. But that again, this goes back to like, whatever we think, assume, imagine, no, is probably not going to be the case in the future. It's going to be some entirely new emergent properties that we can't, we don't yet know. Have you heard of John Vervecky? I haven't.
Okay, so John Vervecki would say there are different forms of knowing. There's propositional, which is what you've referred to, but there are three others. So perspectival, procedural, and participatory. Those can be defined elsewhere, but if you want, I can define them. The point is that it seems like LLMs are not masters yet. I want to say that they're stronger at knowledge than humans. I would say they're stronger at knowledge, broadly speaking, than in any given one human.
which is a different statement but they're on the way to be more knowledgeable and even in one's own domain at least seems like that but anyhow that would just be relegated to propositional knowledge and not like procedural knowledge or participatory what it's like to participate in this dialogue for instance or perspectival what it's like to have a perspective yeah so what do you make of that do you also see ai encroaching in those domains i do yeah and
The perspective I take is that I do look at this moment through the lens of the 25th century. And I do that because in any given question that you or I could pose to each other about any topic, we can say, do we think we are in a simulation? Who do we think is going to win the 2024 US election? What do we think about, whatever, filling that
Question mark. Right. Any one of us can run our mouths and we can string words together and we can express an opinion. Then others are going to listen to that and say, well, I agree or disagree or whatever the case may be. And that's the same as true as like how fast you think AI is progressing. Do you think we're going to develop AGI? Like, you know, all these questions. And so it creates this pretty messy landscape of opinions.
But if you look at this moment from the 25th perspective, it kind of makes all those opinions just wash away. And so will artificial intelligence know more than humans?
From the vantage point of the 21st century, of course. You just look at it on a trajectory from a 100-year perspective of the entire century, of course. Do we think blank? To me, that gives clarity of thought because if I don't hang out from that perspective, I get stuck in the mud of everyone else's opinions. If you look back through history, most human opinions were incorrect about the future.
It's very hard to predict the future. And so I don't try to hang out in this really narrow time span because I ultimately consider it to be rather futile in trying to play this much larger game, which is really what I'm saying is how do we get existence right for this next few centuries? And the first thing on order is how do we humans secure our place in the future?
When we're inherently not the alpha on the planet, when we're not the primary value producers, when there's something more intelligent than us, how do we stick around? How do we get onto this continuous progress curve? And so that's really the entirety of my thoughts. It's like you generally just try to avoid those. If we're a tribe of humans trying to navigate our way into some intelligent existence, the role I try to play in the tribe is...
is to offer a unique perspective that others are not offering. This is super interesting. How do you choose? Like you chose 25. I'm sure that's not completely arbitrary. Now, some people would say, well, you live in the moment. So the temporal meaningful moment is the now. Some people would say, let's do what makes our ancestors proud. So then that's something in the past. Some people would say the rocking chair test. So that's maybe 40 years into the future. You said 25, the 25th century.
There's also the 10 to the 30th century where there's the heat death of the universe and everything is meaningless. So how does one choose which one to place at the top of a value hierarchy? Yeah. I mean, 10 to the 30 though, you know, I don't, I don't hold that to be true. You know, like from our current models. Okay. But it also presumes we know that like in the known to unknown ratio, so
It's to me, like the most interesting question is what we don't know. And so I know we jump to those things, those conclusions of like, okay, there's this heat death, so nothing really matters. But I don't think we even begin to contemplate that. I mean, that kind of time span is just insane. But the 21st century I selected, it's basically at the current rate of progress, it's inconceivable.
It's so far outside the contemplation zone, you couldn't even begin to imagine. And so it's just meant to break the imagination to say, I agree. We absolutely have zero idea. Like, you know, if you could say, let's imagine. So the uncertainty is too large as you move forward in time. Exactly. You say, yeah, you say 2075 and people are like, well, we've got flying cars and like, you know, we're going to genetically design our babies and like they, they map
So just like Blade Runner in 2049, there's flying cars, there's droids, you have all this advanced infrastructure, but humans are identical. Nothing's changed about humans. And so that's most of sci-fi and most because they have to make it relatable to audiences. And so really it treats humans as an unchanged thing outside of maybe a few augmentations, but otherwise like we're fundamentally the same thing. Do you meditate? I do.
Can you speak on that? Yeah, my meditations are mostly an exploration of observing my mind inner workings. Like before, when I was depressed and I would have a thought about wanting to commit suicide, I would think that was me. I didn't know how to distinguish between
What landed in my conscious awareness and what my mind is generated. And then I realized that I can observe these things and I'm not these thoughts. I'm not these emotions. I'm not this emergent phenomena. It's separate. And so I spend my meditative time trying to become familiar with what my mind naturally turns out on its own. And it becomes, it makes me more aware of like in this conversation, like, you know, when, when we're having these discussions, my mind is
Okay, so you have to magistrate between these different possibilities that emerge instinctively. Now this Magistration is that also you
Which ties into free will. Do you also decide? Yeah.
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I generally like on conversations like this, I don't have any learned expertise. I've read books on the topic. I've had conversations on the topic. And I think the most prudent answer for me to give is I don't know. Great. Okay. I wish more people would give answers akin to that.
How long do you meditate for? Presumably, you know that. It depends on the day. It depends on the objective. The weekends, I have a larger stretch of time to get into it. Of course, there's compounded gains in meditation. When you get in, you get in deep and you find the right spot. It's wonderful to be there. Other times, if the day is fast paced, it's harder to get into that spot. So it depends on day and context. How about your thoughts on psychedelics? If I'm not mistaken,
There is a molecule, a certain molecule tattooed to you somewhere. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. This guy. Yeah. Five MEO DMT. Uh, you know, like we all know that when we find ourselves in life moments, like the passing of a loved one or a near death experience or something that jars us sober,
And for a very brief moment in time, we have our head on straight and we're able to see clearly. And psychedelics have that effect. They have this sobering, expansive property which tears us loose of being almost suffocated by the omnipresent focus of now.
And so I do love psychedelics for their properties of allowing us to expand outside of normal and to acquire greater tools. I guess what's cool to me is how big is consciousness? Is it as big as the electromagnetic spectra?
Are you asking me or you're just saying these are thoughts that occur to you? Sure, I'm asking you. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Like, so if we just say if we can define consciousness and let's just say we can categorize states and we can numerically define them and then we look at the size of other realities. So I gotta ask you, like, what is the size of consciousness? What do we have access to now? You know, does psychedelics give us increased access? Can we imagine that?
even these two things might even be this, the smallest of introductions on what the full range is. That's an interesting question because how does one compare something physical like the electromagnetic spectrum, which seems to be infinite or maybe goes up to the plank length because you measure in terms of wavelengths. And it would also depend on what does, what does it mean to measure consciousness? Yep. So I don't know.
You mentioned that people are surprised that you're a chill dude. So then what does that mean that they think about you that you're this, this, this punctilious ritualized uptight person? Is that what you're saying? Yes, they, they grab onto the most accessible frameworks that they can imagine. So it's, you know,
Characterization of like rich narcissistic Ruthless Selfish so they just kind of put me into this category of a bad actor in society So it's it's there's there's no goodwill assigned it's just this guy's a nemesis is this common among
A certain type of people or is it just like, what is it? I imagine your fans don't think so almost by definition. They're your fans. Yeah. Yeah. Those of you, those of them, those are my, uh, those who have journeyed with me, they, they understand, I think the essence of this project. And so they, they see it for what it is. And it's just others who have a peripheral awareness. I mean, I think, um, like when I have these dinners,
is two and a half hours long. The thing I find most remarkable is – I pose several thought experiments – is how predictable people's thought patterns are. If you pose that question – one of the thought experiments I give is if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, mental, spiritual health of your life but in exchange for doing that, you needed to do what the algorithm said – ate what it said, went to bed what it said, etc.
Would you say yes or would you say no? And even though the average IQ of the people who attend my dinners are above 130, they're very capable people, the predictability of their answers is stunning. And it reminds me almost like a reflection of that likely means how predictable my opinions are about almost everything else of
We experience reality as though we're novel, as though the first time it's been experienced, but we're kind of oblivious to these larger patterns that we're in. And so when people read headlines of me, unbeknownst to them, their brain is formulating these conclusions and then they just parrot it. And so it's really invited me to be so much more cautious on anything my mind generates in any opinion I have about anything.
You mentioned these dinners and for people who are unaware, you house some friends of yours or some colleagues on a fairly regular basis and discuss philosophical implications of your practices and what it means to be human. From these dinners, what would you say are some key takeaways other than the predictability of one's own opinions, yet the ascribing of novelty to it?
The dinner is fundamentally... Most dinners are a friendly social competition on who knows the most. Even if it's among friends, there's still a status game to be played of who can make the best point or who can...
There's like an intellectual status game that's played and most people walk into this dinner thinking that it's an intellectual battle trying to figure stuff out and really it's a game who can figure out how to figure out I don't know. And so it's the opposite side of the spectrum of intelligence and it's recognizing that right now in our culture
I don't know is seen as weakness and unintelligent and lowering one's status. And this is an effort to say that the future of intelligence probably is closer to I don't know as the starting premise versus now I know is the dominance. And so people will spend two and a half hours navigating this course in their mind.
And if they're successful, they'll land in the spot and realize that, I don't know, is the most intelligent answer given the contemplations we've discussed. Is it a different set of people every time then? It is. Hmm. Okay. I mean, I don't know. It's like, if you pose the question, what is the hardest thing any human can say? And what is the easiest thing any human can say?
The easiest thing that a human can say is I know. The hardest thing any human can say is I don't know. Have you ever had your IQ tested? I haven't. You measure almost every aspect of your life. Is there a reason why not IQ or say dual and back or something that's analogous to it? Yeah, it just hasn't come up. So do you focus on nootropics? I haven't. Hmm.
Okay. Have you heard of BPC 157? We have. I have. Yes. Please tell me about that. What are your findings? Yeah. Uh, well, so we, we just started a, a peptide protocol. In fact, uh, a week ago I started cerebral lysine, a peptide. It's a five milliliters injected every other day for 10 days. I'm on day five right now.
It's been used in acute situations for concussive treatments and things like that.
Evidence ranking, it's not as strong as we normally do, but we think it's safe. So we're trialing that. Sorry, not as strong as you normally do. What do you mean? So typically, so what we did at Blueprint is we looked at all scientific literature on health span, lifespan. We did a power ranking of all the effect sizes. And then we've been trying to implement the power laws because without some kind of organizational methodology,
There's infinite number of things to do for one's health and wellness. And so unless you have some kind of guideline on what to do and why, you'll be forever in the mesh of this and that and probably never achieve meaningful results. And so we've tried to order according to power laws. Cerebral license, this peptide for neural health and neural cognitive performance is not a power law because it doesn't yet have the level of evidence we typically like.
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Go to shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify.com slash theories. What other new tropics have you tried that it would pass your test of this power law? I mean with in my daily protocol, we have 74 total interventions. There are basic things like vitamin D.
But then also more advanced things like calcium alpha-ketoglutarate, Fisetin, Lutolian, and so there's a few others. And many of those do have cognitive benefits. We do mushrooms. So I guess we have several things. I guess we have several components that people do put in nootropics. So I guess, yes, I do take those. It just depends on how you define what specific ingredient within nootropics.
What about intermittent fasting for the mind? Have you found any increase in focus or speed or creativity? And by the way, do you measure creativity even subjectively? Just keep a tally of it. I mean, subjectively. I would say I've done my best work intellectually. My life.
In the past three years since I've been on blueprint that the ideas, if I were to score the ideas I've had in terms of originality, that they far exceed anything I ever did before. And so, um, the combination of sleep exercise and diet, I think has significantly altered my consciousness and in a, uh,
In a predictable and steady way, so it's not like psychedelics are wonderful for its acute window of perspective and insight and experience, but then it fades and in a few days time you've renormalized. I did this, for example, I did ketamine, intramuscular ketamine with a kernel brain interface.
So I measured my brain for five days before I did ketamine. I did ketamine with it on, then I did it for 30 days after I measured my brain. And we looked at the effects of what ketamine did to my brain. No one had ever done that before. You mostly are asking people subjective opinions about their experience with ketamine and afterwards. And we saw that the data we got, it showed my brain like a map of the globe. Think of it like airports are scattered throughout the planet.
And you see traffic patterns like Tokyo, New York, London, Dubai, and certain patterns have more traffic than others. For small airports, there's very few planes.
And so I had these patterns in my brain of big networks of communication and these patterns explain a lot about intelligence, behavior, mental wellness. It's very rich. Right. And then when I did ketamine, it basically wiped out those networks. It's like you took the globe and you just like put Tokyo's airport in the middle of the desert in South Africa. And so
It sounds disorienting. Well, it's also it makes sense that there's this therapeutic window where once you do a, I guess this is just ketamine. I can keep it narrow to ketamine. You're open to new ideas. You're open to revisiting traumas. You're open to all sorts of things of creating new habits.
And so you have this two or three day window where things are pretty scattered and you're open to all kinds of different possibilities. And then on day four or five, it closes up and your old patterns reemerge. And so it was really cool to see in real time my brain open and close.
And I did experience that. I mean, I journaled on those days and my openness to new ideas was dramatic, you know, but then day four or five, I did see myself slip back into my patterns really fast, which goes back to this, you know, the topic you and I were talking about, which is like, I wonder quantitatively how aware or unaware I am of my own thoughts. So even as much as I try when I meditate,
To watch things drop into my conscious awareness. There's so many more things happening in my own consciousness that I can't access. So I can't see those things drop. And so it's the same question with how big is consciousness? How big is my how big or how small is my self-awareness? And so you can kind of see that I'm I'm endlessly curious about what I don't know.
I also notice you're curious about the quantity that you keep mentioning this word quantity and that comes parts and parcel with measurement. What if to consciousness, what separates it is that there's a qualitative factor, but not a quantitative one. I mean, science begins with counting. You know, I would in that case,
Others may hang out in that space and explore it. I would endeavor to find a new measurement modality that allows us to put numbers to it. Explain. If you look at systematic progress is heavily reliant upon the quantitative nature of the building blocks.
I heard you describe the blueprint as a, as not only nourishing health giving, but also spiritually enriching. Please expand on that. Is that related to what you're mentioning regarding consciousness and ketamine? Also, let's be clear. Ketamine is not on the blueprint and the blueprint is the protocol that's publicly available. Yeah, that's right. Um, as, as an entrepreneur,
I would rather be homeless and hungry and be an entrepreneur than I would comfortable in a professional setting where I'm restrained in what I can do. With those kind of tendencies, I love to build things.
And with Blueprint, it's one thing to build the product, it's an entirely different thing to be the product. And most people think of themselves achieving some level of immortality through their work accomplishments, what they publish, what they earn, what their status is. They view that or their offspring and
I'm proposing this is the first time where you can be your own best product. That you are your own immortality. And to have that mindset, it requires you to shift all of your energies away from the former way of understanding self to a new way of understanding self. So yes, ketamine is a way for me to explore building my own product myself in a quantified fashion.
I'm equally as interested in psychedelics, as you mentioned. And so, but I wanted a quantitative baseline. What happens to my brain when I do psychedelics? What can we tease out, tease out numerically? And how does that match or mismatch with my subjective experience? The former way of understanding oneself ties to, oh, sorry, understanding one's immortality ties to one's job or one's influence on the world.
And then you mentioned that you have a new way or you'd like to instigate into people the possibility of a new way, which sounds like bodily immortality. But if you go back enough, there's the spiritual immortality, the soul or what there may be in the afterlife. So do you do any protocols to make yourself endure in that area? Yeah, I mean, um,
Believing in a life after death is something akin to being hopeful or optimistic or insane. We have no evidence that it exists. No one has ever returned and told us. We have no idea.
And if we're being intellectually honest, every story that has ever been created about a potential reward of afterlife is complete speculation. It doesn't pass any level of intelligence. Now you could say there's benefits for cultural cohesion.
To give people hope you can come up with all sorts of arguments on like why it's actually a useful technology for societal events If we're sober about that we have to realize the species were extremely delusional And so this is the moment where it may we may not need a
To ever reconcile with this, like we may be able to just walk into the future and we never have to reconcile those things of being like, were we right or were we correct or incorrect? But the, the thing that it had, the impact it had on me is growing up in a religious environment, Mormonism, I was told that the scriptures foretold the end of the world.
that there were prophecies about wars and about floods and disasters and that when a certain time and place that Jesus Christ would return, unite his people, you know, the people be divvied up, those going to heaven, those not. And so I had no incentive to make the world a better place. I had no incentive to fight for the future. If the world was going to hell in a hand basket and burning, better.
Because it proves my beliefs to be correct. It dissolves me of all responsibility for the future because my spiritual longevity is assured if through my adherence to these spiritual practices. Over half the world believes in this concept that there's really no reason to invest in that because the afterlife is the ultimate prize.
And so it really creates a very large problem. Now, maybe with the advent of AI, it's going to bridge us to this world where we don't need to reconcile with that. We can just jump past that and maybe people will think this new world is actually heaven, that we just bypass the actual physical death and run to something else. But for me, I never would have had the motivation to do blueprint had I been religious.
It would have been contrary to the entire ethos of that religion. On the spectrum of afterlife theories, Mormonism is just one. How do you throw all of them out? Or I'm not saying you're throwing them out, but how do you ascribe a low credence to them? What is this evaluation that one uses on the field of possibilities to say this one's more likely than this one when given underlying all of that
In a reality where everybody dies, it kind of doesn't matter. So if it doesn't matter, make up your best story, believe in your best story, and feel good about the time you have to exist. When your
Looking at a horizon where it's not clear anymore whether death is going to be inevitable. It does matter. So in any other time period, I wouldn't have even raised this topic. But right now we're trying to navigate a pretty precarious situation in the world where we've had weapons to annihilate ourselves for a couple of decades. So far we haven't. We are now bringing online.
Tools that are equally, if not more powerful than nukes and AI and we're still playing games as a human where we want to conquer territory. We want to acquire power. We want to dominate others. We use violence and death. And so we're still this primitive violence species as we're pulling as we're pulling the super intelligence online. And so my objective of blueprint is it's really about purging
our existence from this want of violence and death and to something new. And it's a remake of who we are as a species. And it begins with I don't know, but it requires the courage to say, I'm willing to boldly and courageously step into this new future not knowing, which not knowing gives us panic.
So it really requires a lot of stamina to do that and to say, and we're going to be willing to let go of everything we've ever believed and thought and assumed and imagined. Like none of it may carry forward at all at the starting point. Now, if it does great, but we at least have to be open-minded that if we are trying to carry over our preference stack, it's going to be probably in conflict with the emergent properties of whatever we have in front of us.
Including our disposition towards war and status and power at the cost of all else. What would you say is the difference between stating, I don't know, but then courageously moving forward anyway, and faith? Yeah, it's, it's the same thing. It's faith in I don't know versus faith I know. Yeah, Mormonism, you had this practice where every Sunday was testimony Sunday.
I mean it's every once every once a month and so like you get up in front of a congregation of you know say 200 people and there from 200 people you bear your testimony and so it's something like this. I you know I'll bear my testimony that you know I believe the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. I believe that you know like you're burying your your
Your soul on what you believe to be true. And so the repeat that the entire congregation just goes to that practice for an hour. You just hear nonstop dozens of people repeating this thing to each other that this unquestioned knowing about all things. And so it's a faith faith practice, which most faiths have the same practice where you're repeating to each other.
your unquestioned confidence that you know, you have no doubt, you just know. And so I think that captures and I think even in a secular world, like even in casual conversations, are we in a simulation? It's not too dissimilar from testimony meeting, where people may like given this and that theory, but
Are we in a simulation? How would anyone even begin to answer that question in any serious fashion? You can populate ideas like here are some contemplations and here's how this might be thought, but it's rarely framed as like this is a wild guess I don't really know. As a species, we really blur the lines between what we know and don't know.
And so we sometimes confuse, most of our social interactions are meant for social cohesion. They're not meant for truth seeking. But yet we don't distinguish between when a conversation is cohesion versus truth. And therefore we walk away with cohesion thinking that it's truth. And this creates some peril for us. Again, when we're all going to die anyways, like not a whole lot of risk. When we're gambling with the future of intelligent existence in this part of the galaxy, it matters.
So again, this also relies on a on a propositional definition of truth. Even to say that it could be the case that society is incorrect, but truth will always be correct as if those are distinct. That's not entirely clear, at least not to me. Can you please expand on that? Yeah, so true truth is. I'll use that word very lightly. Yeah, like what are the things I think I know, right? You can start at the most
Basic premise of your sensory system and your experience of reality. Like I think, you know, the following thing. So yeah, I'm not doing capital T. It's lowercase lowercase T. Okay. Before we get to some of the more particular questions about the protocol, like do you incorporate coffee and why not an actual gone and NMN and so on. Before we get to that, I want to just stick to when you talk about not dying or don't die is a slogan.
do you technically mean like if you were to expand on that I understand that's a phrase and it's meant to also be catchy but if you were to expand on that would you say actually what it means is don't die today or don't die involuntarily what would you say is the longer version of don't die yeah does it actually mean like never bodily die no matter what even if there's an undue amount of suffering whatever yeah it's
Upon hearing don't die, many people will say, that's so negative, the brain can't understand a negative. So they'll say, it's really much better to say, live long, live well, like they'll go to the positive. And the challenge with that frame is if I say that to you, you'll say, no matter who you are, you'll say, yep, doing it. And if you say, don't die,
You have to deconstruct everything you understand about existence and you're forced to make an opinion. So if you want to die, you need to justify why you want to die. If you don't want to die, you need to grapple with don't die. And so it's designed to invite that we are baby steps away from creating super intelligence.
And that is going to invite us to revisit every foundational element of our existence. And so don't die is a frame that also calls attention to, in any given day, if you just make a list of what things do you do on a daily basis and which things would you put into the die category and what things would you put into the don't die category.
So at lunch, you're out with friends, you choose to have the burger and fries and a soda versus the salad, vegetables and whatever else. So you chose die in that situation. At nighttime, you're going to stay up late, watch your favorite show, you're going to miss your bedtime, and you're going to have some ice cream and some potato chips. Hear that sound?
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Two other die categories. So if you just go through your day or you scroll through social media for three hours versus whatever. And so if you just take an accounting of what you do on a daily basis and put in the die or don't die, it draws your attention that you really do – most people live a life of die. And they do that because they just think death is inevitable. This is what everyone else does. I'm being normal. This is how you live life.
And so it's really meant to provoke that contemplation and awareness. What if someone says, okay, it doesn't have to be so black and white as the phrase goes. It doesn't have to be so extreme. It could be like Tony Robbins once went 10 years or 20 years without eating anything other than fish and salad. And then he got married and his wife started, who was also extremely healthy, was eating a chocolate fudge Sunday. And he's like, how could you? What do you, I thought I knew you. And then she's like, live a little.
And then from then he started to incorporate more desserts and fun. So in other words, you could say, don't die, or you could say, don't die in a banal manner, die in a way that is fun or right. Okay. Yep. It doesn't have to be, again, the party animal sort of fun. Yeah. Yep. To sum up, what if someone says it's a false dichotomy, like this extreme stringency versus extreme leniency? Yeah.
So in the case of your example, she introduced to him an ideology of die and she justified it under a cultural frame that there's this idea that if you eat this sugar and cream that you are scoring points
of living an ideal life that these are virtues in society that we should admire. And so people hear her explanation. They say, Oh God, that's just, that's so reasonable. Of course, like we all want to have ice cream Sundays. But what is really at the heart of that is we are saying as a species, we love die. We are addicted to die and we are willing to tell any pretty story we can.
And so if you look at this from a larger perspective, what I'm trying to say is what the 25th century says about this moment is they say homo sapiens figured out it was time for them to transition from die to don't die, that they purged existence.
That's what intelligence does as it approaches superintelligence. The concept of doing anything that introduces death is contrary to what an intelligent being would do.
And so what I'm suggesting is, what I tried to do with Blueprint is I tried to say, I'm actually going to quantify death at a molecular level. I'm going to become the most measured person in human history. I'm going to quantify it at an organ level, at every possible level. And then I'm going to share the data. Like what does a hot fudge sundae cause for death? What are you paying for in life? And so I'm saying that this is primitive. And I realize it scores cultural points.
Don't die is logically equivalent to continue to live infinitely.
Okay. So what if someone's like, continue to live for what? Yeah, it's living forever breaks the human's brain. Like, you know, this as a physicist, there are certain concepts and physics that break most people's brains. They just can't compute it. And living forever is something that breaks people's brains. We can't understand it.
And that's why I say don't die is not dying so you have tomorrow because the only thing we actually can compute is tomorrow. And so living for tomorrow and don't die and living forever are the same concepts. They're identical in nature. It's just that we understand wanting to live to tomorrow, but we can't understand wanting to live forever. And so just like we all have things to do tomorrow,
Don't die is based upon the premise. You can live until you don't want to. But so far in my life, I've always wanted. OK, so it's minus my depression. Most of the time, I've wanted to live at least until tomorrow. And so it's meant to take steps we can all understand and say, yep, we have something going on tomorrow. And let's just let's just roll the dice and see how this happens. How about we get to some technical, not technical, but but meticulous questions about the
protocol is that all right great let's switch gears now sauna do you incorporate saunas yes or no i don't why okay so why not i'm sure you know about the research of ronda patrick i am yeah okay so please expound
Yeah, it's not a power law that we identify in the evidence. Now, SANA has many health benefits, and it could be the case that there's more emergent data. But as of right now, it's not a power law in extending life. So we focus on the power laws. Another way for people to interpret power law in their mind is it's not high enough on the ROI. Yeah, exactly.
We researched every single scientific publication ever on health span and lifespan, and then we ranked them according to the best to the worst. And then we started with number one or with number zero, and we've worked our way down the list to say, can we implement zero? Can we implement one and two and three and four? And so we've tried to implement the most powerful therapies known to science.
Because again, the problem is you need to have some kind of organizational principle. Otherwise, you have to sort through thousands of health interventions, Eastern medicine, Western medicine. And so if you say like, is this working? Look at my biomarkers. So I, I potentially have, okay, so let's just go through a few of them. I have, I'm aging slower than 99% of 20 year olds.
That's like almost number one in the world after 23,000 samples. My cardiovascular ability is in the top 1.5% of 18 year olds.
I'm in the top 1% for low inflammation. I'm in the top 1% for fat, optimal fat, top 1% for optimal muscle, top 1% for strength. It's like if you go down my list of my biomarkers, I basically have achieved top 1% in almost every single category. Now this is a stunning accomplishment because I arrived here from a real serious deficit after two decades of really destroying my body through entrepreneurship martyrdom.
And also through depression. And so the fact that my body could bounce back this much. And so when you pose the question like, do you do sauna, it's not that sauna is not helpful. It's that...
What therapies have I had to do to achieve top 1% in all of these categories? Now, if somebody wants to challenge and say like, we think that sauna is really integral, like post your biomarkers, like even though that's not going to be the sole contributor to it, post your biomarkers. And right now I potentially have for my age, the best biomarkers in the world. And even in many regards, better biomarkers than like 99% of 20 year olds.
And so for us, that's how we stabilize our thought process. This is not a health influencer approach where it's like do celery juice because it's trendy and cool. We're saying take the best science, measure everything as robustly as you can, and then use that data on biological age comparison charts. And that's the way you determine the efficacy of the protocol. And that's why I think that we've built the best protocol in human history is the data shows it.
So in other words, look, there are these biomarkers. If you were to list them out completely, there's some list of 23,000 people and you would be scored in the top 1000, if not top 100, maybe top 50, whatever. The point is someone's like, why don't you introduce X into your protocol? You're saying, look, we've tried it. It doesn't move the needle. Doesn't make me higher on that one out of the 23,000. Exactly right. Okay, great. So what about NMN? What is NMN? And then tell us your experiments with it.
Yeah, you're trying to get intracellular NAD levels. So it's like a source of energy in your body. And with age, this NAD level goes down in your body. And so you can take either NMN or NR. They both work.
And you can increase your intracellular NAD levels. So a lot of people are familiar with NAD drips. You get a needle into a vein and you get some NAD. You can also do it via oral supplementation. So I tried NR for 90 days. I tried NMN for 90 days. They both helped me achieve these levels. So they both work.
And so my intercellular entity levels are pegged at age 16, which is like roughly 50 something. I forget the unit of measure, but I'm, I'm sure at age 16. And so it's a very easy marker to win at. And so I take currently, I take, uh, I think 675 milligrams a day of NR. Okay. And is it sublingual or is it just in capsule form? Just a capsule form. Yep. Have you tried sublingual NMN? Sorry to interrupt.
What I meant was some people on the YouTube scene who have discounted NMN and I'm speaking about NMN not NR right now.
have said, well, look, the studies don't show that it has benefits, but the people who take it, who have benefits, take it sublingually. Whereas the majority of the studies are in capsule form. So I'm curious if you tried sublingual NMN. Oh, we haven't yet. No, just capsule. Actually, I'm sorry. NMN is powder, the one I tried. And then NR is in capsule. I see. Yeah. But yeah, those debates really need to be settled with data.
You know how there's the blueprint protocol. Is there also something you're developing that would be a protocol for how someone can measure themselves in a similar manner to you, maybe not as extensively, but a measurement protocol? Yeah, we I'm currently building a don't die nation state.
On a list of ambitions, the ambition level would go from start a company, start a country, start a religion, become God, each one being more ambitious.
The next step after building a company is to start a country where you're working on societal advance with a very large number of people. And so we're trying, I'm trying to build a don't die nation state because if you're serious about your health and wellness and you really do believe that we are at this really special moment in the galaxy of where we're at, there's no government in the world actually helping you not die. In fact, most of them are enablers of a death economy.
They actively allow companies to help you die faster. And so as part of that, I want to bring measurement in a group buying sense to as many people as we can around the globe. So we can say, here's my measurement protocol, but it's not something that I can do individually. I can't just start a company that enables this because you need to measure with blood and ultrasound imaging, MRI and ultrasound, DNA methylation. There's so many measurements that need to be done.
You really need to power an entire ecosystem system of providers to help people do it. So we're going to try to be the community organizer of this nation state enabling the measurement. And by a nation state at this point, what you mean is just a large enough cohort that it could rival a country. But do you eventually have aspirations for a separate legal entity like a legal nation state? Yes. Yeah. So we, this is a concept by biology network state.
So yes, like we initially started as community doing these practices together. And then yes, we would seek diplomatic recognition. We would build an archipelago of in-person locations around the world. We would negotiate with nation states. So yes, like the goal is to have nation state status and to be on the global scene as a nation state. When did this idea occur to you?
I had been percolating this idea as I built Blueprint, seeing that we were being successful with me as an n equals one and others for wanting to do this, but it is so hard to do. It's just almost impossible. It's why we made the Blueprint stack available for everyone, like the lowest cost, easiest thing to do. But when you start getting into the more advanced things,
And when you say it's super hard, you mean to say it's financially hard or in terms of time commitment or mentality? There's a few barriers. For example, I'll do a whole body MRI scan where I'll look for cancer or other problems.
That's not something that that insurance will cover is a proactive thing. Right. And so you have to come with that a pocket. And sometimes that's like a barrier. Sometimes when you go to your doctor and you're like, hey, doctor, I'd like to get a blood panel and look at these markers. They'll be like, why do you want that? Do you have any symptoms? You know, like they give you such a hard time. You can't get it done. You can't just order a blood draw without your doctor's approval. You have to go through your doctor to see them.
Sometimes the imaging center doesn't even have the protocols to do it because they service insurance companies all day and they take care of insurance companies. So the entire system is built.
For the masses, which makes sense, but that eliminates anyone else trying to do things for their health. And so we find ourselves fighting all day every day with the entire medical infrastructure trying to get basic things done. We've solved most of those things, but still we fight it every day.
Yes, I know from personal experience, I wanted to get something tested. I don't know, it could be vitamin D levels, something like that. And the doctor was saying, well, why there's nothing wrong with you, you're not exhibiting any symptoms. And they don't have this concept or maybe they do in their personal life, but in their professional life, not one of living optimally. They have one of if you're sick, let's try to figure it out. And then let's remove the sickness. Yes.
Are you planning on expanding the blueprint so that I in Canada, by the way, and maybe you could speak to people in the States or elsewhere, can go in order, can go in person and get some tests done like a DEXA scan or an MRI scan or some blood tests. Yeah, that's what we're hoping to do. And so there will be a few layers. One is each country is going to be unique with their own system.
Two is that we want to be a group buying club. So let's just say in Canada, somebody offers DEXA and we can go to them and say, hey, we have 2000 people in your area that would get DEXA scans, but you've got to give us a better price.
So we can do significant group negotiating and then we can also do other things where people can introduce therapies to the group in a decentralized fashion. So we're trying to figure out how to break down all the barriers from a cost and accessibility perspective around the world. It's going to be a challenging thing.
Healthcare is not like just scaling Bitcoin. Like you have really real world hard problems of accessibility. Actually, no, that Bitcoin analogy is off because Bitcoin is also equally hard because you're talking about jurisdictions, governments, regulations. I take that back. It's not as easy as like software where you'd log into a website, you know, like it's very easily scalable in the world. You have really hard problems to overcome in all countries. OK, you've given people a great teaser. So what do you see as the timeline for this?
I hope we'll launch the beta app in, um, like June. And so the first thing we're trying to do is, so one thing we did at Venmo, which was unique is prior to Venmo, people imagined their financial transactions to be private. That, you know, what you spent and with whom was like proprietary to your party. Venmo made that open in public. So you're sharing openly like, Hey, we went, you know, thanks for the meal last night or whatever.
And so it became a social interaction. And we're doing the same with health data. So we're going to trial. Your wearable will be integrated directly with the community app. And so your data will stream to your friends. And so they'll see your exercise. They'll see your sleep. And now you can comment on it as well. But it's a change in mentality from right now. You perceive your health data as largely private.
And we're going to say, actually, this is just public. So there you have all of your friends streaming in real time. So if you have a poor night's sleep, I can call you say, hey, friend, like, how are you? Okay. So it really, we'll see whether people like it or dislike it. But I've been doing this myself. Like I've been streaming my data live and you know, initially it's, it's nerve wracking. It takes a bit to get over that mindset, but I'm just naked in front of the world now and it's fine.
Brian, to close the loop on the sauna question, do you also do ice baths or no for the same reason or cold showers? Yeah, I do not do cold therapy and it's for the same reasons. It's not that it's not without potential benefit. It just doesn't have the evidence on increasing lifespan. What is rapamycin and why do you take the dosage that you take?
RAPA is probably one of the only anti-aging therapies that has general consensus among the quote-unquote experts, where most everyone disagrees on almost everything, but RAPA seems to have a lot of support from people in the anti-aging community. I take a protocol where I do 13 milligrams of RAPA on week zero,
and then six milligrams week one, 13 week two, and we arrive at that protocol. So it basically is one of the most powerful agents to slow the rate of aging damage. And so the way we do this, it's helpful to understand this, that knowing what dose to take is really important. Something like how much vitamin D should you take is an example. And so the way you know how much vitamin D to take is
You first get a baseline measurement of your vitamin D levels. If they are below the appropriate range, optimal range, then you decide to take a certain dose. You take it for a certain duration of time, and then you measure again. And so we did that same with rapamycin, where we measured my rapamycin, my serolimus levels, two hours after dose, 24, 48, 72, 96. So because you want to see the half-life of the drug, because you're trying to hit a C max, the peak, and then see the decay curve.
What in the longevity community or anti-aging community, what do they take as rapamycin as the standard dosage? It's my understanding that you take a larger dosage than usual, but I don't know if my understanding is flawed. Yeah, I do. My dose is on the larger side. It's really not known what the optimal dose is.
The wisdom has been, and whether this is correct or incorrect, I don't think people know, is to take as much rapa as you can, just shy of side effects. And so I know that if I increase more than what I have now, I'll get sores on the side of my mouth. They heal, but I get sores. So yeah, I think it's an emergent area. I think several of us are experimenting.
But I don't think any of us really know. Does the blueprint protocol itself include therapies that have only been shown to work on mice? Yes. Elaborate on that. Is that controversial? Do you see that as sound or how do you feel about that? Yeah, we we have a grading curve. We use 14
biostatistical criteria on assessing whether or not we would trust the evidence in a paper. And so yes, we use animal models. We use human models. So we're open to all the different models. And so like with animal, there's just a process on looking at where the evidence came from and whether you can do it. So it's not always the case that we do so, but yes, we're open to it.
When I was watching some of your videos like you have this wonderful one which I will link in the description and it will be on screen right now about something apologies if I'm not stating the name correctly but something like 24 hours in the life of Brian Johnson taking us through your routine. You mentioned that you have a mild calorie restriction. Now I wasn't sure if that's the same as a mild calorie deficit like explain elaborate on that please. One of the one the more
One of the stronger outcomes in the anti-aging world is caloric restriction. It's not without question. There's a lot of questions that people are asking. I've been on a caloric restriction diet for several years and initially I was 20% caloric restricted. So for my age and level of activity, the recommended
Daily allowance would be 2,500 calories a day, and so I was doing just under 2,000 calories a day. I got pretty lean in doing so, and we wondered if I could go to 10% caloric restriction, add back in 250 calories roughly, and still achieve the same benefits. And so we did, we adjusted to around 2250, and my biomarkers have remained unchanged.
So it seems that whether you do a 20% caloric restriction or 10%, we couldn't pick up the difference in my biomarkers. They apparently seem to accomplish the same objective. Now, the next test would be to go to 2500 calories and see if there's any effect for caloric restriction or whether it's the same.
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It seems to me, unless your weight is decreasing every week or so that that's not technically a caloric restriction, that that's just maintenance. Yes, that's right. Yes, you basically I agree take the body basically adjusts.
It's like we've seen interesting outcomes, like for example, body temp temperature is typically 98.7 Fahrenheit. That's quote unquote normal. My waking body temp hovers around like 94.9, 95.95. So it's dropped around three, three and a half degrees Fahrenheit since doing this. So my body just has a, yeah, it's a cooler state than when I started.
Have you heard of orthotropics or mewing? I have. Okay, please tell us your findings. Oh, I'm familiar with it. We haven't done a deep dive in it though, so I couldn't comment on it. Would you like to try mewing? It's my understanding you have bruxism. Yeah, I have had bruxism. So it's basically arrested since I've been using this device called the Somnodent.
It's an oral appliance that arrests the upper and lower teeth and stops me from grinding. Yeah, I don't have it and so I don't know anything about it. We have not done a deep dive on it.
Despite the benefits, incorporate coffee. Coffee has some beneficial nutrients. It's great for a nutrition perspective. However, I personally get addicted to it. I enjoy the caffeine high for the first few days. Then on day four or five, I find myself needing to drink coffee to feel normal again.
Yes. And then I'm just in a constant deficit. I see. And so I've tried several times to start. I've tried different amounts of caffeine and coffee a different time of the day, but inevitably it leaves me in tatters after about a week. I see. That's if you were to abstain from it after consuming it for a while. So if it was to be incorporated into a protocol, what difference would it make if you needed to stay normal? Oh, I'm saying that
Even after a week, I need coffee just to feel normal. But then after that temporary high, I drop back down into a deficit. So it puts me in a permanent deficit where I get back up to normal to some amount of time and then I drop back down. What would be the differences between the Mediterranean diet and your diet? They're very close.
What would be the key difference then? I'm vegan. In the Mediterranean diet, there's some level of meat. So I'm vegan for ethical reasons. It's the only preference I've superimposed on Blueprint. Everything else is driven by science. And so the contemplation was, could we do this from a vegan perspective?
Then I don't eat pastas. And I eat a lot of olive oil, extra virgin olive oil is 15% of my daily diet. And I eat a lot of vegetables and lentils. So there's a lot of similarities. What do you make of the carnivore diet? I've really... Besides the ethical issues. Yeah. I've really not...
I stepped into the carnivore and vegan war where the moment you enter the conversation, everyone pulls out their sword and runs to the battlefield. It's really emotionally charged. I've taken a stance where I am vegan by choice, but you do you. If meat is your thing, do your thing.
And the thing we can all do is measure biomarkers and we can assess how the diets are doing for us. And so of all the, I mean, my preference is to try to tackle the future of the human race. And I don't want to waste any capital I have on doing warfare on things that I don't think are really going to win. It's just no one wins in that battle.
Would you do an AB test with the blueprint protocols except what you change is that one person or one set of people are given high quality proteins or high quality lean meats, maybe fish and then others vegan? Yeah, I mean, people are doing that now. We have a few thousand people doing the blueprint protocol and some are vegan. Some are a carnivore. So we'll have that data. What are your thoughts on ashwagandha? Yeah, I do 600 milligrams a day of that.
Okay, cool. So it's my understanding that if you continue to take ashwagandha, that there's some effect where it reverses its effects until you need to off cycle it or you need to cycle it. Sorry. Have you encountered this with yourself or in the data? I'm not aware of that in the data. How about L-theanine? Do you take that on a daily basis? I believe so.
One of my worries with taking L-theanine at least frequently is that anything that messes with the GABA system, whether it increases or decreases, it's like that's a tricky, thorny issue. So how do you feel about that? Yeah, let me pull this up so I don't speak out of turn and see. Yeah, I take 200 milligrams a day. Yeah, I guess on all these things, I think the points you raise are good and I think that there's
Many more things we could all raise as we learn more, we just don't know. I always come back to my biomarkers. And that's the thing that I rely upon the most. And again, you go back to my list, it's hard to find anyone in the world with better biomarkers than me at any age.
If we're doing some things wrong, we're doing many, many things right. And like, we don't know where we're at on the known versus unknown spectrum. Like is, is blueprint 99% right or is it 3% right? And we'll learn more. Like we're just getting 3% right and we're still getting these gains. Like we'll know in 10 years, like this is just the inevitable game we play in science. But as far as what we know, yeah, I'm like, you know, among best in world.
You mentioned that much of Blueprint is N equals one. Is there at least an N equals two around? Do you have someone else, a guinea pig, a personal one, and not just on the internet anonymously? Yeah, a coworker. My 27-year-old coworker did it as a female. So we have an N equals two. She did the entire Blueprint protocol for 90 days and tracked all of her biomarkers. And then we have a few thousand people on the Blueprint stack that are also extensively measuring their biomarkers. Someone on Reddit wanted to know, what is your opinion on
Fresh fruit, freeze-dried fruit, frozen fruit, and juiced fruit. Whatever the process is, the question is what nutrients are retained. For example, we have some dried fruit, like some berries as part of our blueprint stack.
Equal in nutrients as fresh, just without the water. And so everything I consume, we try to say that whatever process is, it must yield the same nutritional benefits. If the process diminishes it, then it's not as desirable. Would you say you have a low protein intake compared to what's ordinarily advised?
Yeah, I'm at 110 grams a day. So I weigh 173 pounds, so 74 kilograms. And I think most people in the US think that they should be consuming 150 to 250 grams a day of protein. And so we've done something that kind of challenged a lot of preconceived notions. I'm vegan.
and caloric restriction and 110 grams of protein. And even so, I'm top one percentile for fat and muscle and cardiovascular ability. And so we've shown, like a lot of people think that vegans are weak, caloric restriction makes you weak, that low protein wouldn't allow you to put on muscle. But I've shown that we've been able to defy all of those preconceived notions and achieve top 1% of performance on all those metrics.
And you're still able to bench press 245 pounds, something like that. That's right. And I don't even work out my chest much. That's just like natural. I'm not routinely building my chest muscles. So you still like when you do bench press, it would be around 240. It's not just something you measured two years ago or something. It's consistent. Yeah, that's right. And so that's you. That is in the top
10 percentile for 18 year olds. And the reason why you use an 18 year old for strength, because a lot of people will immediately say, that's stupid. Use a 20 year old or drag late twenties, early thirties for strength. But actually you peak it's weight to body ratio and you peak at age 18. And so that's, that's the real comparison. So if you're looking at it from a cause after age 18, even though you, you can get stronger in your twenties and thirties,
What about testosterone replacement therapy?
So Sadguru had some similar advice to you. Your advice is with olive oil and his advice was with ghee, my understanding is.
Where do you weigh in on that if you've heard about it? Yeah, I don't know the evidence on ghee. It's not been part of our protocol. It's not risen to the forefront of foods. So I don't know what the evidence is on that. But for some reason, it's not been something my team has suggested is an essential calorie for our intake. Have you heard about the positive effects of going barefoot on the ground? I hear a lot of people talking about it. I'm unfamiliar with the evidence.
What is your most outlandish unorthodox idea about biology or aging? Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California and for delivery. That it shouldn't be something we're concerned about.
This is the job for the systems, not us. The systems? Yeah. It's not your job to get clean water. You're not going down to the river every morning and fetching water to drink and cook and wash your clothes. It just shows up. Perfect health should be the same. It should just be automated. We should all have it.
It shouldn't depend upon income status. It shouldn't depend upon circumstances. We should all just have perfect health. Have you looked into CRISPR gene editing? Yeah, it's exciting. It's a bit off. It's still emergent. I don't think it's... It's too early. It's pretty early. It's like when people speak about graphene for batteries. It's always two years away. Yeah, we're excited about it. It's pretty early, yeah.
You mentioned meditation. So plenty of this conversation was revolving around diet and exercise exercise. And there's also the third component of spirituality. Maybe there's a fourth component, but at least three. What else other than meditation do you do? And maybe you don't even consider meditation to be. Yeah, I practice a lot of self talk. So I break myself out into various characters.
So it started when I isolated Evening Brian, the version of me that would overeat. And I identify versions of myself that manifest in certain times and places or biochemical states. And he has certain tendencies, he has certain thought processes. And I try to not treat myself as one person, but as multiple people.
So that really helps me understand myself, and it enables me to predict my own patterns with much more accuracy. Evening, Brian. So, okay, two questions. One, is that the reason why you stop eating around noon, maybe 11 a.m.? And then my other question, before I forget it, what other Brian's are there? Yeah, it's evening, Brian. Yes, it was a desperate attempt at stopping my self destructive behaviors.
in the evening and then it led to a process of me trying to figure out when is the right time to stop eating. And so I ran a few hundred experiments with types of foods and time of last meal and it's all around optimizing for my sleep. Sleep is the single most important thing I do every single day. And so my life is built around sleep.
Now, what other Bryans are there other than Evening? I mean, there's ambitious Brian who really cares about being respected by the 25th century. I respect many people who lived in the centuries before our time, and I appreciate what they did that allowed civilization to be in the place we're at. I want to be among the chain of contributors to
our own evolutionary greatness. There is dark humor, Brian, where growing up in Mormon land, you could basically only ever look in the light. You could only ever state positives. You could only ever look towards God. But, you know, looking towards Satan or the darkness or dark humor was forbidden. And so half of reality was hidden from me for the majority of my, until I was like,
Mid twenties and so now i love darkness i love to look in darkness in many ways.
I don't know is darkness, right? It's like the ultimate form of darkness because again, like lower status to not know. We value intelligence on knowing and scores and tests and rankings. IQ is not a test of what you don't know. It's a different form of intelligence. And so it's hard to really quantify I don't know. And then there's like playful Brian where I like
Being in a kid-like state and just being silly and messing around and having no adult-like responsibilities or no expectations on how I must be. So yeah, I've written down all these characters. In fact, my book, Don't Die, I broke myself out into multiple characters and they all have a dialogue about the future of being human. And so there's depression, Brian, there and there's like devil may care. Was that therapeutic to write?
Yes. Yeah, I got to like, you know, have playful banter in between myself and like make fun of myself and make sharp, sharp jabs. So, yeah, it was fun. So then did you ultimately end up on an interplay of them being the solution or one or there's a ranking of them where one rules out? It was. Ultimately, I guess the spoiler of the book.
The end showcases that Brian is evolving and as part of that process he leaves behind certain characters. So there's certain versions of Brian that die and there's other versions of Brian that carry on. And then also these various characters give voices to the various opinions that people have. And I know these from having these dinners. The majority of these dinners they break out into
So then don't die doesn't apply to all the personalities?
That's right. The idea of don't die is presented and several of the Brian's don't sign up. Would you want them to sign up? No, this is like the example of Tony Robbins wife, right? Like she, um,
She is like, don't Tony was like, look, I'm serious about don't die. And his wife is like, actually die is actually kind of cool. And Tony's like, oh, you're right. It's like he, he was compromised on his don't die objectives. And so there's just competing perspectives on, you know, like there's this idea that balance is, is, is good. You know, like, if you, if you throw out the word,
Of the philosophies of the past like Zen Buddhism, which is about the middle path or balance or I say stoicism,
What do you align most with? I really align most with matrix multiplication of the LLMs. I believe in a mathematical existence and I would love to live in a mathematical reality. And words are a
An attempt, a low dimensional attempt at trying to quantify biochemical states and words and the frameworks humans have offered up are just not computationally as robust as our methodologies. And so I think they're all inferior to what our computational models will offer us in an existence in consciousness. In addition to specific practices, do you spend any time developing a
theoretical framework for improving aging akin to a longevity toe. So just for people who are interested in what I'm referring to this channel itself is called theories of everything. And we interview people on their different theories of everything usually in a physics sense. But anyhow, Brian, what I'm asking is, are you working on a longevity toe? We we have a map that like one of the more interesting things that
I've seen is one of the researchers in this field presented a slide one time and they showed on one page 500 lines of how aging happens in the body. And it was meant to depict how complicated of a problem it is and how many things we need to get done. And so it's pretty hard. There's a few people trying to create cohesive theories about aging and how it's to be addressed.
It's not clear to me where we're at in our maturity of understanding that we can put forward those theories. So we really are more on the practitioner side and less on theoretical because theoretical, there's not a payoff. You know, like for the moment you do theory to practice, you're looking at some time span and we're really trying to, I'm trying to demonstrate the four minute mile.
Hmm. I'm trying to showcase or I'm trying to like Amelia Earhart did traverse the Atlantic You know in an airplane or I'm trying to like take any other or summit Everest or get to the bottom of the sea I'm trying to do something. No human has ever done and that most people believe is impossible but yet when one human does it then every human can do it or most human most every human can do it and so that's really what I'm after is a
I'm trying to accelerate our evolutionary move towards Don't Die as the guiding philosophical, economic, political, moral, ethical framework of our existence. The Don't Die is the operating system of society. It seems like you have achieved the four-minute mile when it comes to sleep. Please tell people about this ridiculous sleep score that you have. Yeah, it's the best sleep score ever recorded.
And, uh, not to say that others could do it. I mean, it's achievable, but I had eight months of perfect sleep, uh, 100% a score. And yeah, it was, I, um, we all know how well we feel when we sleep well. And we definitely know how horrible we feel when we don't sleep well. Exactly. It's like, it changes your conscious experience dramatically. And there's nothing that changes existence more than sleep.
And even still, the fact that it is the single most powerful thing, somehow we have downgraded its importance to when we get around to it and or celebrating when people don't do it. And so like these moments, I love trying to find clarifying moments of how we're currently insane. We look back at previous generations and we can clearly see their insanity.
But seeing our own insanity is much harder. And our opinions and behaviors towards sleep are insane. So yeah, I was trying to demonstrate that one can achieve predictable, high-quality sleep in eight months in a row, and it will change your life. And so yeah, I built my life around it, and I published all my protocols.
All right, Brian. Well, there's so much more I could talk to you about. We can go on for hours and hours and I hope we do. I hope I get to meet you in person, maybe do your protocol at your place. I was envious of that lady in that video, which I'll put on screen. You are now speaking directly to the audience. What message do you have for them to take away with as they watch and they think
Okay, great. Now what? Yeah. Hi, friends. It's wonderful to see all of you. I hope this has been a helpful conversation. I would invite each of you to consider making Don't Die your primary identity in life. And to do that, it's
What we discussed, it's believing that we are baby steps away from superintelligence, that we are potentially at the doorstep of the most extraordinary existence intelligence has seen in this part of the galaxy. And that to achieve that, we do need to transcend ourselves and evolve into a species that is trying to eliminate sources of death individually,
Collectively the planet and we need to align AI with don't die That this is sensible and that these things begin on a day-to-day basis So it's saying no to junk food and fast food and saying yes to healthy food It's putting systems in place so that you don't need to rely upon your willpower. It's knowing that you will make the wrong decision When given the opportunity so it's not having junk food in the house getting rid of all of it is making your bedtime your number one priority so
You can take small, measurable baby steps to get into this, but really to understand the world that a new opportunity is here. And so I hope that you will join this with me, that we do need to build this globally and that if enough of us do it,
Brian, man.
Thank you for spending so much time with me. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. All right. Don't go just yet. There's something you should know about. There are just, in my opinion, a handful of truly innovative incubators. And of that handful, there aren't any that are started by someone as young and as ambitious as my friend Adam, who created Echo Lopto.
EchoLopto's polymath events are a highly curated ecosystem for interdisciplinary minds to discuss their most unorthodox ideas with a critically receptive audience. Their next polymath event will be in Boston during September, followed by December in Silicon Valley. Follow them on Instagram and X at EchoLopto so that's E-K-K-O-L-A-P-T-O or visit the website ekkolapto.org.
By the way, Ecolopto is Greek for the word incubate slash emergence. You can also see my talk at the last Ecolopto polymath event here. I think Ecolopto is going to be a large favorable force in the world, a nourishing one, which is why I'll be at both events, Boston and Cambridge. I know the owner personally, and I can attest to the vision and the initiative behind it. Also, I just wanted to place a thank you to the Redditors. There are too many here to count.
I went back through the questions and here are the user names on screen associated with questions that I've asked that were similar. So thank you to all these people. Firstly, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. There's now a website, curtjymongle.org, and that has a mailing list. The reason being that large platforms like YouTube, like Patreon, they can disable you for whatever reason, whenever they like.
That's just part of the terms of service. Now, a direct mailing list ensures that I have an untrammeled communication with you. Plus, soon I'll be releasing a one-page PDF of my top 10 toes. It's not as Quentin Tarantino as it sounds like. Secondly, if you haven't subscribed or clicked that like button, now is the time to do so. Why? Because each subscribe, each like helps YouTube push this content to more people like yourself
Plus, it helps out Kurt directly, aka me. I also found out last year that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that whenever you share on Twitter, say on Facebook or even on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube. Hey, people are talking about this content outside of YouTube.
which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube. Thirdly, there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes. They disagree respectfully about theories and build as a community our own toe. Links to both are in the description. Fourthly, you should know this podcast is on iTunes. It's on Spotify. It's on all of the audio platforms. All you have to do is type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Personally, I gained from rewatching lectures and podcasts.
I also read in the comments
and donating with whatever you like. There's also PayPal. There's also crypto. There's also just joining on YouTube. Again, keep in mind it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You also get early access to ad free episodes, whether it's audio or video. It's audio in the case of Patreon video in the case of YouTube. For instance, this episode that you're listening to right now was released a few days earlier. Every dollar helps far more than you think.
Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you so much.
Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's for a limited time.
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"text": " Brian Johnson, there are broadly two spokes of this longevity movement. So one is the more technical research type, which talks about autophagy and mitochondrial DNA expression, technical terms. And then there's the more YouTuber influencer type about, well, let's live in a healthy manner. And some people see you as bridging the gap between both of those. Do you agree with that? I'm proposing that"
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"text": " None of us should actually think about our health and wellness. I think it should be a process of computation and automation. And this is the observation that Alfred North Whitehead made, the mathematician, that society advances at the speed at which it can automate things."
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"text": " And so we have Moore's law and we have other markers that we try to look at progress. I think it might be interesting if we had an automation law. What is the speed at which society is automating tasks that previously required our attention but no longer do? For example, like basics we do on a day-to-day basis. Clean water comes out of the tap. Neither you nor I"
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"text": " Wonder whether that water is going to kill us now, maybe dirty to some degree. It may not be the purest thing ever, but it's probably not going to kill us. At least not right now. And when you look throughout society of the automated tasks. And so yes, for the for an entry point, I do talk about things that are within people's immediate control. Eating well and exercise, but what I'm really trying to demonstrate is that algorithms are systematically doing things better than we can as humans, and it makes sense."
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"text": " So you know how many people talk about the dangers of the algorithm, the algorithm of Google or YouTube or Facebook or whatever it may be. Do you see then a similar danger of the of some algorithmic"
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"text": " Yeah, I mean, there's a few potential dangers. I mean, one is you have to realize that the reason why people are justifiably apprehensive about algorithms is because the entities that develop the algorithms are in many regards killing you. So when they build an addictive app,"
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"text": " They're not keeping metrics like, you know, oh, we're so happy that this user got eight hours of sleep. They're saying we're able to get this person onto our app and we're able to keep them on there for blank number of minutes uninterrupted. And so they care about the metric internally that they brag to their coworkers about of how long they were able to keep your attention or inside of, uh,"
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"text": " A junk food company, they're bragging about the potato chips they sold or the candy bars they sold or whatever the case may be. And that's what they cheer and they celebrate. And so we have this culture behind all these algorithms, whether it be junk food or addicted social media, where these companies are celebrating your death."
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"text": " And it's not said that explicitly usually because it's rather benign of like, Oh, we're just doing capitalism and we're giving people option to be entertained, but it really is a death culture. And so people are justifiably suspicious of algorithms because that's what they've done. And so it's easy for them to say like, if that, if they're trying to kill me in these other ways, like why in the world would I give them access to my health when they've shown that they've want nothing but the worst for me. Speaking of algorithms. So speaking of automating,"
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"text": " What are your daily uses for LLMs? We are implementing our first LLM right now. So up until this point, we've largely been tracking data in spreadsheets. We haven't done all that much data analysis. There's just not a lot of room. The data we have is pretty sparse. And so the LLM we're building, basically, I say that the blueprint is an algorithm that takes better care of me than I can myself."
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"text": " The premise behind this is that we see algorithms getting better at pretty much everything in society. And we systematically say yes to these things. For example, can an algorithm help me find better content? Okay, great. Can it help me write this sentence better? Okay. So we say yes in all these incremental fashions."
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"text": " And then slowly it's going to get to a point where the algorithm is going to become better at being you than you are. You just mentioned two words blueprint and then data briefly for people who are unacquainted. What is the blueprint? And then my second question is"
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"text": " Is there a place where people can find the data that you have on yourself as one of, if not the most measured people on the planet in some readily readable fashion as people, as many of your fans have to then comb through old interviews to find out what has he said about so-and-so? Yeah, it's protocols.bryanjohnson.com and I have the data listed out according to Oregon, you know, lungs,"
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"text": " And so I tried to take that feedback. We just put out a product and it's 74 interventions into 400 calories. And I think it's the best health protocol ever built."
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"text": " And so I say this, people can go to my website, protocol.bryanjelson.com. They can see exactly what I do, the supplements I take, the foods I eat, and they can implement the entire thing. So it's available for free. Also now, they can buy for $343 the entire stack, and it just shows up and it's ready to eat and drink, eight pills a day. So I'm trying to basically build out this algorithm"
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"text": " So it's easily doable by everyone at the most basic level. So this is the starter point and we'll slowly work up. What would you say, Brian, is the the largest misconception that people have of you? Or every once that you've encountered, OK, like literally everything. I mean, this is the most common experience I have where. I will be in person with someone."
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"text": " And if we have any kind of time together, they'll say, I predictably, wow, I really had the wrong idea about you. You're actually a pretty chill dude. Your ideas are compelling. This is interesting almost universally. And I guess like it's, it's been like the, the,"
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"text": " Getting the attention of the world has, uh, has certain characteristics. You can't just walk into the global conversation and speak to really heady stuff. You have to kind of talk, use the language, the local language, mimetics and, and stuff like that. But I think we're slowly working, chipping away at making this more understandable that, you know, blueprint, um, blueprint is basically an invitation"
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"text": " for us each to say that we may be at a point in time where we are invited to let go of everything we think, expect, assume, and imagine. Okay, well, this takes us to some philosophical terrain."
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"text": " Well, I'm curious what your view is on the nature of reality. I think that up until this point, we humans have been the generators and the stewards of knowledge. We discover things, we learn things, we memorize things, and we teach others things. We collectively maintain this intelligence."
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"text": " So we are the managers of knowledge. And AI has now become a better manager of knowledge. AI knows more things than any human knows, these large language models. And these LLMs are also getting pretty good at discovery in certain vectors. And there's this trajectory where they probably are going to get substantially better. And so we're currently transitioning from"
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"text": " Knowing all things are knowing what we do know to not knowing not being the steward of it. And so this is to me The most significant transition that's happening is that we humans are moving from a species of knowing To one of not knowing or at least needing we need to ask to know but we're not the primary owners that knowledge and so when it comes to questions like what is reality and"
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"text": " Before you could pose that question and it would be socially appropriate for a human to say, well, let me tell you about my understanding of reality based upon that person's education or knowledge. In a very short period of time, I don't think it will be culturally or socially appropriate for a human to say that because they'll be so outmatched in knowledge relative to AI that it just will be seen as foolish."
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"text": " And so in this moment, I would say that it's really not my interest of using words to try to expand on reality. I'm saying that my objective as an intelligent being..."
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"index": 29,
"start_time": 761.459,
"text": " In this moment has been reduced to trying to stay alive and don't die. So I can bridge myself into this new reality, whatever it may be. But that again, this goes back to like, whatever we think, assume, imagine, no, is probably not going to be the case in the future. It's going to be some entirely new emergent properties that we can't, we don't yet know. Have you heard of John Vervecky? I haven't."
},
{
"end_time": 812.142,
"index": 30,
"start_time": 786.715,
"text": " Okay, so John Vervecki would say there are different forms of knowing. There's propositional, which is what you've referred to, but there are three others. So perspectival, procedural, and participatory. Those can be defined elsewhere, but if you want, I can define them. The point is that it seems like LLMs are not masters yet. I want to say that they're stronger at knowledge than humans. I would say they're stronger at knowledge, broadly speaking, than in any given one human."
},
{
"end_time": 842.227,
"index": 31,
"start_time": 813.166,
"text": " which is a different statement but they're on the way to be more knowledgeable and even in one's own domain at least seems like that but anyhow that would just be relegated to propositional knowledge and not like procedural knowledge or participatory what it's like to participate in this dialogue for instance or perspectival what it's like to have a perspective yeah so what do you make of that do you also see ai encroaching in those domains i do yeah and"
},
{
"end_time": 870.811,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 842.466,
"text": " The perspective I take is that I do look at this moment through the lens of the 25th century. And I do that because in any given question that you or I could pose to each other about any topic, we can say, do we think we are in a simulation? Who do we think is going to win the 2024 US election? What do we think about, whatever, filling that"
},
{
"end_time": 898.114,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 871.852,
"text": " Question mark. Right. Any one of us can run our mouths and we can string words together and we can express an opinion. Then others are going to listen to that and say, well, I agree or disagree or whatever the case may be. And that's the same as true as like how fast you think AI is progressing. Do you think we're going to develop AGI? Like, you know, all these questions. And so it creates this pretty messy landscape of opinions."
},
{
"end_time": 913.592,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 898.814,
"text": " But if you look at this moment from the 25th perspective, it kind of makes all those opinions just wash away. And so will artificial intelligence know more than humans?"
},
{
"end_time": 941.578,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 914.258,
"text": " From the vantage point of the 21st century, of course. You just look at it on a trajectory from a 100-year perspective of the entire century, of course. Do we think blank? To me, that gives clarity of thought because if I don't hang out from that perspective, I get stuck in the mud of everyone else's opinions. If you look back through history, most human opinions were incorrect about the future."
},
{
"end_time": 969.462,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 942.09,
"text": " It's very hard to predict the future. And so I don't try to hang out in this really narrow time span because I ultimately consider it to be rather futile in trying to play this much larger game, which is really what I'm saying is how do we get existence right for this next few centuries? And the first thing on order is how do we humans secure our place in the future?"
},
{
"end_time": 996.92,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 970.213,
"text": " When we're inherently not the alpha on the planet, when we're not the primary value producers, when there's something more intelligent than us, how do we stick around? How do we get onto this continuous progress curve? And so that's really the entirety of my thoughts. It's like you generally just try to avoid those. If we're a tribe of humans trying to navigate our way into some intelligent existence, the role I try to play in the tribe is..."
},
{
"end_time": 1025.691,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 997.312,
"text": " is to offer a unique perspective that others are not offering. This is super interesting. How do you choose? Like you chose 25. I'm sure that's not completely arbitrary. Now, some people would say, well, you live in the moment. So the temporal meaningful moment is the now. Some people would say, let's do what makes our ancestors proud. So then that's something in the past. Some people would say the rocking chair test. So that's maybe 40 years into the future. You said 25, the 25th century."
},
{
"end_time": 1053.626,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 1025.964,
"text": " There's also the 10 to the 30th century where there's the heat death of the universe and everything is meaningless. So how does one choose which one to place at the top of a value hierarchy? Yeah. I mean, 10 to the 30 though, you know, I don't, I don't hold that to be true. You know, like from our current models. Okay. But it also presumes we know that like in the known to unknown ratio, so"
},
{
"end_time": 1077.142,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 1055.572,
"text": " It's to me, like the most interesting question is what we don't know. And so I know we jump to those things, those conclusions of like, okay, there's this heat death, so nothing really matters. But I don't think we even begin to contemplate that. I mean, that kind of time span is just insane. But the 21st century I selected, it's basically at the current rate of progress, it's inconceivable."
},
{
"end_time": 1104.428,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 1079.121,
"text": " It's so far outside the contemplation zone, you couldn't even begin to imagine. And so it's just meant to break the imagination to say, I agree. We absolutely have zero idea. Like, you know, if you could say, let's imagine. So the uncertainty is too large as you move forward in time. Exactly. You say, yeah, you say 2075 and people are like, well, we've got flying cars and like, you know, we're going to genetically design our babies and like they, they map"
},
{
"end_time": 1134.275,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1104.974,
"text": " So just like Blade Runner in 2049, there's flying cars, there's droids, you have all this advanced infrastructure, but humans are identical. Nothing's changed about humans. And so that's most of sci-fi and most because they have to make it relatable to audiences. And so really it treats humans as an unchanged thing outside of maybe a few augmentations, but otherwise like we're fundamentally the same thing. Do you meditate? I do."
},
{
"end_time": 1163.968,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1135.401,
"text": " Can you speak on that? Yeah, my meditations are mostly an exploration of observing my mind inner workings. Like before, when I was depressed and I would have a thought about wanting to commit suicide, I would think that was me. I didn't know how to distinguish between"
},
{
"end_time": 1194.087,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1164.394,
"text": " What landed in my conscious awareness and what my mind is generated. And then I realized that I can observe these things and I'm not these thoughts. I'm not these emotions. I'm not this emergent phenomena. It's separate. And so I spend my meditative time trying to become familiar with what my mind naturally turns out on its own. And it becomes, it makes me more aware of like in this conversation, like, you know, when, when we're having these discussions, my mind is"
},
{
"end_time": 1223.422,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1194.531,
"text": " Okay, so you have to magistrate between these different possibilities that emerge instinctively. Now this Magistration is that also you"
},
{
"end_time": 1229.753,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1224.189,
"text": " Which ties into free will. Do you also decide? Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 1259.889,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1230.367,
"text": " Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast! And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.COM today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS!"
},
{
"end_time": 1289.445,
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"start_time": 1264.497,
"text": " I generally like on conversations like this, I don't have any learned expertise. I've read books on the topic. I've had conversations on the topic. And I think the most prudent answer for me to give is I don't know. Great. Okay. I wish more people would give answers akin to that."
},
{
"end_time": 1319.735,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1290.06,
"text": " How long do you meditate for? Presumably, you know that. It depends on the day. It depends on the objective. The weekends, I have a larger stretch of time to get into it. Of course, there's compounded gains in meditation. When you get in, you get in deep and you find the right spot. It's wonderful to be there. Other times, if the day is fast paced, it's harder to get into that spot. So it depends on day and context. How about your thoughts on psychedelics? If I'm not mistaken,"
},
{
"end_time": 1350.009,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1320.111,
"text": " There is a molecule, a certain molecule tattooed to you somewhere. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. This guy. Yeah. Five MEO DMT. Uh, you know, like we all know that when we find ourselves in life moments, like the passing of a loved one or a near death experience or something that jars us sober,"
},
{
"end_time": 1379.428,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1350.759,
"text": " And for a very brief moment in time, we have our head on straight and we're able to see clearly. And psychedelics have that effect. They have this sobering, expansive property which tears us loose of being almost suffocated by the omnipresent focus of now."
},
{
"end_time": 1407.841,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1380.828,
"text": " And so I do love psychedelics for their properties of allowing us to expand outside of normal and to acquire greater tools. I guess what's cool to me is how big is consciousness? Is it as big as the electromagnetic spectra?"
},
{
"end_time": 1438.933,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1409.002,
"text": " Are you asking me or you're just saying these are thoughts that occur to you? Sure, I'm asking you. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Like, so if we just say if we can define consciousness and let's just say we can categorize states and we can numerically define them and then we look at the size of other realities. So I gotta ask you, like, what is the size of consciousness? What do we have access to now? You know, does psychedelics give us increased access? Can we imagine that?"
},
{
"end_time": 1466.647,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1439.445,
"text": " even these two things might even be this, the smallest of introductions on what the full range is. That's an interesting question because how does one compare something physical like the electromagnetic spectrum, which seems to be infinite or maybe goes up to the plank length because you measure in terms of wavelengths. And it would also depend on what does, what does it mean to measure consciousness? Yep. So I don't know."
},
{
"end_time": 1496.8,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1468.422,
"text": " You mentioned that people are surprised that you're a chill dude. So then what does that mean that they think about you that you're this, this, this punctilious ritualized uptight person? Is that what you're saying? Yes, they, they grab onto the most accessible frameworks that they can imagine. So it's, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1526.886,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1497.398,
"text": " Characterization of like rich narcissistic Ruthless Selfish so they just kind of put me into this category of a bad actor in society So it's it's there's there's no goodwill assigned it's just this guy's a nemesis is this common among"
},
{
"end_time": 1557.244,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1527.654,
"text": " A certain type of people or is it just like, what is it? I imagine your fans don't think so almost by definition. They're your fans. Yeah. Yeah. Those of you, those of them, those are my, uh, those who have journeyed with me, they, they understand, I think the essence of this project. And so they, they see it for what it is. And it's just others who have a peripheral awareness. I mean, I think, um, like when I have these dinners,"
},
{
"end_time": 1588.029,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1558.695,
"text": " is two and a half hours long. The thing I find most remarkable is – I pose several thought experiments – is how predictable people's thought patterns are. If you pose that question – one of the thought experiments I give is if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical, mental, spiritual health of your life but in exchange for doing that, you needed to do what the algorithm said – ate what it said, went to bed what it said, etc."
},
{
"end_time": 1614.002,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1588.609,
"text": " Would you say yes or would you say no? And even though the average IQ of the people who attend my dinners are above 130, they're very capable people, the predictability of their answers is stunning. And it reminds me almost like a reflection of that likely means how predictable my opinions are about almost everything else of"
},
{
"end_time": 1641.22,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1614.48,
"text": " We experience reality as though we're novel, as though the first time it's been experienced, but we're kind of oblivious to these larger patterns that we're in. And so when people read headlines of me, unbeknownst to them, their brain is formulating these conclusions and then they just parrot it. And so it's really invited me to be so much more cautious on anything my mind generates in any opinion I have about anything."
},
{
"end_time": 1670.452,
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"start_time": 1642.346,
"text": " You mentioned these dinners and for people who are unaware, you house some friends of yours or some colleagues on a fairly regular basis and discuss philosophical implications of your practices and what it means to be human. From these dinners, what would you say are some key takeaways other than the predictability of one's own opinions, yet the ascribing of novelty to it?"
},
{
"end_time": 1698.166,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1672.688,
"text": " The dinner is fundamentally... Most dinners are a friendly social competition on who knows the most. Even if it's among friends, there's still a status game to be played of who can make the best point or who can..."
},
{
"end_time": 1725.947,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1699.326,
"text": " There's like an intellectual status game that's played and most people walk into this dinner thinking that it's an intellectual battle trying to figure stuff out and really it's a game who can figure out how to figure out I don't know. And so it's the opposite side of the spectrum of intelligence and it's recognizing that right now in our culture"
},
{
"end_time": 1753.456,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1726.613,
"text": " I don't know is seen as weakness and unintelligent and lowering one's status. And this is an effort to say that the future of intelligence probably is closer to I don't know as the starting premise versus now I know is the dominance. And so people will spend two and a half hours navigating this course in their mind."
},
{
"end_time": 1782.807,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1754.189,
"text": " And if they're successful, they'll land in the spot and realize that, I don't know, is the most intelligent answer given the contemplations we've discussed. Is it a different set of people every time then? It is. Hmm. Okay. I mean, I don't know. It's like, if you pose the question, what is the hardest thing any human can say? And what is the easiest thing any human can say?"
},
{
"end_time": 1811.374,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1783.951,
"text": " The easiest thing that a human can say is I know. The hardest thing any human can say is I don't know. Have you ever had your IQ tested? I haven't. You measure almost every aspect of your life. Is there a reason why not IQ or say dual and back or something that's analogous to it? Yeah, it just hasn't come up. So do you focus on nootropics? I haven't. Hmm."
},
{
"end_time": 1836.493,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1811.715,
"text": " Okay. Have you heard of BPC 157? We have. I have. Yes. Please tell me about that. What are your findings? Yeah. Uh, well, so we, we just started a, a peptide protocol. In fact, uh, a week ago I started cerebral lysine, a peptide. It's a five milliliters injected every other day for 10 days. I'm on day five right now."
},
{
"end_time": 1848.183,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1837.295,
"text": " It's been used in acute situations for concussive treatments and things like that."
},
{
"end_time": 1874.804,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1849.019,
"text": " Evidence ranking, it's not as strong as we normally do, but we think it's safe. So we're trialing that. Sorry, not as strong as you normally do. What do you mean? So typically, so what we did at Blueprint is we looked at all scientific literature on health span, lifespan. We did a power ranking of all the effect sizes. And then we've been trying to implement the power laws because without some kind of organizational methodology,"
},
{
"end_time": 1904.821,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1875.435,
"text": " There's infinite number of things to do for one's health and wellness. And so unless you have some kind of guideline on what to do and why, you'll be forever in the mesh of this and that and probably never achieve meaningful results. And so we've tried to order according to power laws. Cerebral license, this peptide for neural health and neural cognitive performance is not a power law because it doesn't yet have the level of evidence we typically like."
},
{
"end_time": 1917.858,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1905.384,
"text": " Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 1944.77,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1918.609,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
"end_time": 1970.828,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1944.77,
"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
},
{
"end_time": 1996.613,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1970.828,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
},
{
"end_time": 2025.213,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1996.613,
"text": " Go to shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in shopify.com slash theories. What other new tropics have you tried that it would pass your test of this power law? I mean with in my daily protocol, we have 74 total interventions. There are basic things like vitamin D."
},
{
"end_time": 2053.558,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 2025.657,
"text": " But then also more advanced things like calcium alpha-ketoglutarate, Fisetin, Lutolian, and so there's a few others. And many of those do have cognitive benefits. We do mushrooms. So I guess we have several things. I guess we have several components that people do put in nootropics. So I guess, yes, I do take those. It just depends on how you define what specific ingredient within nootropics."
},
{
"end_time": 2082.654,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 2054.906,
"text": " What about intermittent fasting for the mind? Have you found any increase in focus or speed or creativity? And by the way, do you measure creativity even subjectively? Just keep a tally of it. I mean, subjectively. I would say I've done my best work intellectually. My life."
},
{
"end_time": 2110.469,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 2083.217,
"text": " In the past three years since I've been on blueprint that the ideas, if I were to score the ideas I've had in terms of originality, that they far exceed anything I ever did before. And so, um, the combination of sleep exercise and diet, I think has significantly altered my consciousness and in a, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 2138.456,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 2112.108,
"text": " In a predictable and steady way, so it's not like psychedelics are wonderful for its acute window of perspective and insight and experience, but then it fades and in a few days time you've renormalized. I did this, for example, I did ketamine, intramuscular ketamine with a kernel brain interface."
},
{
"end_time": 2166.596,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 2139.172,
"text": " So I measured my brain for five days before I did ketamine. I did ketamine with it on, then I did it for 30 days after I measured my brain. And we looked at the effects of what ketamine did to my brain. No one had ever done that before. You mostly are asking people subjective opinions about their experience with ketamine and afterwards. And we saw that the data we got, it showed my brain like a map of the globe. Think of it like airports are scattered throughout the planet."
},
{
"end_time": 2179.684,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 2166.954,
"text": " And you see traffic patterns like Tokyo, New York, London, Dubai, and certain patterns have more traffic than others. For small airports, there's very few planes."
},
{
"end_time": 2204.445,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 2180.162,
"text": " And so I had these patterns in my brain of big networks of communication and these patterns explain a lot about intelligence, behavior, mental wellness. It's very rich. Right. And then when I did ketamine, it basically wiped out those networks. It's like you took the globe and you just like put Tokyo's airport in the middle of the desert in South Africa. And so"
},
{
"end_time": 2226.169,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 2204.838,
"text": " It sounds disorienting. Well, it's also it makes sense that there's this therapeutic window where once you do a, I guess this is just ketamine. I can keep it narrow to ketamine. You're open to new ideas. You're open to revisiting traumas. You're open to all sorts of things of creating new habits."
},
{
"end_time": 2245.52,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2226.817,
"text": " And so you have this two or three day window where things are pretty scattered and you're open to all kinds of different possibilities. And then on day four or five, it closes up and your old patterns reemerge. And so it was really cool to see in real time my brain open and close."
},
{
"end_time": 2273.985,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2245.998,
"text": " And I did experience that. I mean, I journaled on those days and my openness to new ideas was dramatic, you know, but then day four or five, I did see myself slip back into my patterns really fast, which goes back to this, you know, the topic you and I were talking about, which is like, I wonder quantitatively how aware or unaware I am of my own thoughts. So even as much as I try when I meditate,"
},
{
"end_time": 2299.343,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2274.428,
"text": " To watch things drop into my conscious awareness. There's so many more things happening in my own consciousness that I can't access. So I can't see those things drop. And so it's the same question with how big is consciousness? How big is my how big or how small is my self-awareness? And so you can kind of see that I'm I'm endlessly curious about what I don't know."
},
{
"end_time": 2324.462,
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"start_time": 2301.169,
"text": " I also notice you're curious about the quantity that you keep mentioning this word quantity and that comes parts and parcel with measurement. What if to consciousness, what separates it is that there's a qualitative factor, but not a quantitative one. I mean, science begins with counting. You know, I would in that case,"
},
{
"end_time": 2353.575,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2325.299,
"text": " Others may hang out in that space and explore it. I would endeavor to find a new measurement modality that allows us to put numbers to it. Explain. If you look at systematic progress is heavily reliant upon the quantitative nature of the building blocks."
},
{
"end_time": 2380.486,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2354.667,
"text": " I heard you describe the blueprint as a, as not only nourishing health giving, but also spiritually enriching. Please expand on that. Is that related to what you're mentioning regarding consciousness and ketamine? Also, let's be clear. Ketamine is not on the blueprint and the blueprint is the protocol that's publicly available. Yeah, that's right. Um, as, as an entrepreneur,"
},
{
"end_time": 2411.783,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2382.773,
"text": " I would rather be homeless and hungry and be an entrepreneur than I would comfortable in a professional setting where I'm restrained in what I can do. With those kind of tendencies, I love to build things."
},
{
"end_time": 2440.367,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2412.79,
"text": " And with Blueprint, it's one thing to build the product, it's an entirely different thing to be the product. And most people think of themselves achieving some level of immortality through their work accomplishments, what they publish, what they earn, what their status is. They view that or their offspring and"
},
{
"end_time": 2469.292,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2441.459,
"text": " I'm proposing this is the first time where you can be your own best product. That you are your own immortality. And to have that mindset, it requires you to shift all of your energies away from the former way of understanding self to a new way of understanding self. So yes, ketamine is a way for me to explore building my own product myself in a quantified fashion."
},
{
"end_time": 2499.787,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2469.923,
"text": " I'm equally as interested in psychedelics, as you mentioned. And so, but I wanted a quantitative baseline. What happens to my brain when I do psychedelics? What can we tease out, tease out numerically? And how does that match or mismatch with my subjective experience? The former way of understanding oneself ties to, oh, sorry, understanding one's immortality ties to one's job or one's influence on the world."
},
{
"end_time": 2526.22,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2500.333,
"text": " And then you mentioned that you have a new way or you'd like to instigate into people the possibility of a new way, which sounds like bodily immortality. But if you go back enough, there's the spiritual immortality, the soul or what there may be in the afterlife. So do you do any protocols to make yourself endure in that area? Yeah, I mean, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 2560.179,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2532.381,
"text": " Believing in a life after death is something akin to being hopeful or optimistic or insane. We have no evidence that it exists. No one has ever returned and told us. We have no idea."
},
{
"end_time": 2586.613,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2561.63,
"text": " And if we're being intellectually honest, every story that has ever been created about a potential reward of afterlife is complete speculation. It doesn't pass any level of intelligence. Now you could say there's benefits for cultural cohesion."
},
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"index": 97,
"start_time": 2587.108,
"text": " To give people hope you can come up with all sorts of arguments on like why it's actually a useful technology for societal events If we're sober about that we have to realize the species were extremely delusional And so this is the moment where it may we may not need a"
},
{
"end_time": 2641.698,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2614.138,
"text": " To ever reconcile with this, like we may be able to just walk into the future and we never have to reconcile those things of being like, were we right or were we correct or incorrect? But the, the thing that it had, the impact it had on me is growing up in a religious environment, Mormonism, I was told that the scriptures foretold the end of the world."
},
{
"end_time": 2669.718,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2642.295,
"text": " that there were prophecies about wars and about floods and disasters and that when a certain time and place that Jesus Christ would return, unite his people, you know, the people be divvied up, those going to heaven, those not. And so I had no incentive to make the world a better place. I had no incentive to fight for the future. If the world was going to hell in a hand basket and burning, better."
},
{
"end_time": 2695.128,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2670.043,
"text": " Because it proves my beliefs to be correct. It dissolves me of all responsibility for the future because my spiritual longevity is assured if through my adherence to these spiritual practices. Over half the world believes in this concept that there's really no reason to invest in that because the afterlife is the ultimate prize."
},
{
"end_time": 2721.988,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2696.032,
"text": " And so it really creates a very large problem. Now, maybe with the advent of AI, it's going to bridge us to this world where we don't need to reconcile with that. We can just jump past that and maybe people will think this new world is actually heaven, that we just bypass the actual physical death and run to something else. But for me, I never would have had the motivation to do blueprint had I been religious."
},
{
"end_time": 2751.647,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2723.046,
"text": " It would have been contrary to the entire ethos of that religion. On the spectrum of afterlife theories, Mormonism is just one. How do you throw all of them out? Or I'm not saying you're throwing them out, but how do you ascribe a low credence to them? What is this evaluation that one uses on the field of possibilities to say this one's more likely than this one when given underlying all of that"
},
{
"end_time": 2779.974,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2751.903,
"text": " In a reality where everybody dies, it kind of doesn't matter. So if it doesn't matter, make up your best story, believe in your best story, and feel good about the time you have to exist. When your"
},
{
"end_time": 2810.162,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2780.538,
"text": " Looking at a horizon where it's not clear anymore whether death is going to be inevitable. It does matter. So in any other time period, I wouldn't have even raised this topic. But right now we're trying to navigate a pretty precarious situation in the world where we've had weapons to annihilate ourselves for a couple of decades. So far we haven't. We are now bringing online."
},
{
"end_time": 2839.189,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2811.015,
"text": " Tools that are equally, if not more powerful than nukes and AI and we're still playing games as a human where we want to conquer territory. We want to acquire power. We want to dominate others. We use violence and death. And so we're still this primitive violence species as we're pulling as we're pulling the super intelligence online. And so my objective of blueprint is it's really about purging"
},
{
"end_time": 2865.162,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2841.015,
"text": " our existence from this want of violence and death and to something new. And it's a remake of who we are as a species. And it begins with I don't know, but it requires the courage to say, I'm willing to boldly and courageously step into this new future not knowing, which not knowing gives us panic."
},
{
"end_time": 2893.729,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2865.52,
"text": " So it really requires a lot of stamina to do that and to say, and we're going to be willing to let go of everything we've ever believed and thought and assumed and imagined. Like none of it may carry forward at all at the starting point. Now, if it does great, but we at least have to be open-minded that if we are trying to carry over our preference stack, it's going to be probably in conflict with the emergent properties of whatever we have in front of us."
},
{
"end_time": 2925.503,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2895.64,
"text": " Including our disposition towards war and status and power at the cost of all else. What would you say is the difference between stating, I don't know, but then courageously moving forward anyway, and faith? Yeah, it's, it's the same thing. It's faith in I don't know versus faith I know. Yeah, Mormonism, you had this practice where every Sunday was testimony Sunday."
},
{
"end_time": 2951.015,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2926.374,
"text": " I mean it's every once every once a month and so like you get up in front of a congregation of you know say 200 people and there from 200 people you bear your testimony and so it's something like this. I you know I'll bear my testimony that you know I believe the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. I believe that you know like you're burying your your"
},
{
"end_time": 2977.688,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2952.022,
"text": " Your soul on what you believe to be true. And so the repeat that the entire congregation just goes to that practice for an hour. You just hear nonstop dozens of people repeating this thing to each other that this unquestioned knowing about all things. And so it's a faith faith practice, which most faiths have the same practice where you're repeating to each other."
},
{
"end_time": 3004.377,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2978.114,
"text": " your unquestioned confidence that you know, you have no doubt, you just know. And so I think that captures and I think even in a secular world, like even in casual conversations, are we in a simulation? It's not too dissimilar from testimony meeting, where people may like given this and that theory, but"
},
{
"end_time": 3027.415,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 3004.94,
"text": " Are we in a simulation? How would anyone even begin to answer that question in any serious fashion? You can populate ideas like here are some contemplations and here's how this might be thought, but it's rarely framed as like this is a wild guess I don't really know. As a species, we really blur the lines between what we know and don't know."
},
{
"end_time": 3054.326,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 3027.807,
"text": " And so we sometimes confuse, most of our social interactions are meant for social cohesion. They're not meant for truth seeking. But yet we don't distinguish between when a conversation is cohesion versus truth. And therefore we walk away with cohesion thinking that it's truth. And this creates some peril for us. Again, when we're all going to die anyways, like not a whole lot of risk. When we're gambling with the future of intelligent existence in this part of the galaxy, it matters."
},
{
"end_time": 3084.531,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 3055.572,
"text": " So again, this also relies on a on a propositional definition of truth. Even to say that it could be the case that society is incorrect, but truth will always be correct as if those are distinct. That's not entirely clear, at least not to me. Can you please expand on that? Yeah, so true truth is. I'll use that word very lightly. Yeah, like what are the things I think I know, right? You can start at the most"
},
{
"end_time": 3114.275,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 3085.06,
"text": " Basic premise of your sensory system and your experience of reality. Like I think, you know, the following thing. So yeah, I'm not doing capital T. It's lowercase lowercase T. Okay. Before we get to some of the more particular questions about the protocol, like do you incorporate coffee and why not an actual gone and NMN and so on. Before we get to that, I want to just stick to when you talk about not dying or don't die is a slogan."
},
{
"end_time": 3141.271,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 3114.701,
"text": " do you technically mean like if you were to expand on that I understand that's a phrase and it's meant to also be catchy but if you were to expand on that would you say actually what it means is don't die today or don't die involuntarily what would you say is the longer version of don't die yeah does it actually mean like never bodily die no matter what even if there's an undue amount of suffering whatever yeah it's"
},
{
"end_time": 3171.22,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 3144.428,
"text": " Upon hearing don't die, many people will say, that's so negative, the brain can't understand a negative. So they'll say, it's really much better to say, live long, live well, like they'll go to the positive. And the challenge with that frame is if I say that to you, you'll say, no matter who you are, you'll say, yep, doing it. And if you say, don't die,"
},
{
"end_time": 3198.865,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 3174.121,
"text": " You have to deconstruct everything you understand about existence and you're forced to make an opinion. So if you want to die, you need to justify why you want to die. If you don't want to die, you need to grapple with don't die. And so it's designed to invite that we are baby steps away from creating super intelligence."
},
{
"end_time": 3219.582,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 3199.531,
"text": " And that is going to invite us to revisit every foundational element of our existence. And so don't die is a frame that also calls attention to, in any given day, if you just make a list of what things do you do on a daily basis and which things would you put into the die category and what things would you put into the don't die category."
},
{
"end_time": 3244.548,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 3220.435,
"text": " So at lunch, you're out with friends, you choose to have the burger and fries and a soda versus the salad, vegetables and whatever else. So you chose die in that situation. At nighttime, you're going to stay up late, watch your favorite show, you're going to miss your bedtime, and you're going to have some ice cream and some potato chips. Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 3271.613,
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"start_time": 3245.503,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
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"start_time": 3271.613,
"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
},
{
"end_time": 3323.473,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 3297.671,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
},
{
"end_time": 3350.657,
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"start_time": 3323.473,
"text": " Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories. At Capella University learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program plus"
},
{
"end_time": 3379.701,
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"start_time": 3350.742,
"text": " Career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella.edu. Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's for a limited time. Oops."
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"text": " Two other die categories. So if you just go through your day or you scroll through social media for three hours versus whatever. And so if you just take an accounting of what you do on a daily basis and put in the die or don't die, it draws your attention that you really do – most people live a life of die. And they do that because they just think death is inevitable. This is what everyone else does. I'm being normal. This is how you live life."
},
{
"end_time": 3433.695,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3404.565,
"text": " And so it's really meant to provoke that contemplation and awareness. What if someone says, okay, it doesn't have to be so black and white as the phrase goes. It doesn't have to be so extreme. It could be like Tony Robbins once went 10 years or 20 years without eating anything other than fish and salad. And then he got married and his wife started, who was also extremely healthy, was eating a chocolate fudge Sunday. And he's like, how could you? What do you, I thought I knew you. And then she's like, live a little."
},
{
"end_time": 3463.66,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3434.172,
"text": " And then from then he started to incorporate more desserts and fun. So in other words, you could say, don't die, or you could say, don't die in a banal manner, die in a way that is fun or right. Okay. Yep. It doesn't have to be, again, the party animal sort of fun. Yeah. Yep. To sum up, what if someone says it's a false dichotomy, like this extreme stringency versus extreme leniency? Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 3488.131,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3464.565,
"text": " So in the case of your example, she introduced to him an ideology of die and she justified it under a cultural frame that there's this idea that if you eat this sugar and cream that you are scoring points"
},
{
"end_time": 3518.422,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3489.155,
"text": " of living an ideal life that these are virtues in society that we should admire. And so people hear her explanation. They say, Oh God, that's just, that's so reasonable. Of course, like we all want to have ice cream Sundays. But what is really at the heart of that is we are saying as a species, we love die. We are addicted to die and we are willing to tell any pretty story we can."
},
{
"end_time": 3546.101,
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"start_time": 3518.797,
"text": " And so if you look at this from a larger perspective, what I'm trying to say is what the 25th century says about this moment is they say homo sapiens figured out it was time for them to transition from die to don't die, that they purged existence."
},
{
"end_time": 3566.613,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3546.715,
"text": " That's what intelligence does as it approaches superintelligence. The concept of doing anything that introduces death is contrary to what an intelligent being would do."
},
{
"end_time": 3597.125,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3567.449,
"text": " And so what I'm suggesting is, what I tried to do with Blueprint is I tried to say, I'm actually going to quantify death at a molecular level. I'm going to become the most measured person in human history. I'm going to quantify it at an organ level, at every possible level. And then I'm going to share the data. Like what does a hot fudge sundae cause for death? What are you paying for in life? And so I'm saying that this is primitive. And I realize it scores cultural points."
},
{
"end_time": 3622.841,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3597.398,
"text": " Don't die is logically equivalent to continue to live infinitely."
},
{
"end_time": 3649.326,
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"start_time": 3623.609,
"text": " Okay. So what if someone's like, continue to live for what? Yeah, it's living forever breaks the human's brain. Like, you know, this as a physicist, there are certain concepts and physics that break most people's brains. They just can't compute it. And living forever is something that breaks people's brains. We can't understand it."
},
{
"end_time": 3675.145,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3649.701,
"text": " And that's why I say don't die is not dying so you have tomorrow because the only thing we actually can compute is tomorrow. And so living for tomorrow and don't die and living forever are the same concepts. They're identical in nature. It's just that we understand wanting to live to tomorrow, but we can't understand wanting to live forever. And so just like we all have things to do tomorrow,"
},
{
"end_time": 3705.111,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3675.589,
"text": " Don't die is based upon the premise. You can live until you don't want to. But so far in my life, I've always wanted. OK, so it's minus my depression. Most of the time, I've wanted to live at least until tomorrow. And so it's meant to take steps we can all understand and say, yep, we have something going on tomorrow. And let's just let's just roll the dice and see how this happens. How about we get to some technical, not technical, but but meticulous questions about the"
},
{
"end_time": 3722.125,
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"start_time": 3705.555,
"text": " protocol is that all right great let's switch gears now sauna do you incorporate saunas yes or no i don't why okay so why not i'm sure you know about the research of ronda patrick i am yeah okay so please expound"
},
{
"end_time": 3751.186,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3722.978,
"text": " Yeah, it's not a power law that we identify in the evidence. Now, SANA has many health benefits, and it could be the case that there's more emergent data. But as of right now, it's not a power law in extending life. So we focus on the power laws. Another way for people to interpret power law in their mind is it's not high enough on the ROI. Yeah, exactly."
},
{
"end_time": 3776.323,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3751.783,
"text": " We researched every single scientific publication ever on health span and lifespan, and then we ranked them according to the best to the worst. And then we started with number one or with number zero, and we've worked our way down the list to say, can we implement zero? Can we implement one and two and three and four? And so we've tried to implement the most powerful therapies known to science."
},
{
"end_time": 3805.981,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3777.449,
"text": " Because again, the problem is you need to have some kind of organizational principle. Otherwise, you have to sort through thousands of health interventions, Eastern medicine, Western medicine. And so if you say like, is this working? Look at my biomarkers. So I, I potentially have, okay, so let's just go through a few of them. I have, I'm aging slower than 99% of 20 year olds."
},
{
"end_time": 3816.271,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3806.323,
"text": " That's like almost number one in the world after 23,000 samples. My cardiovascular ability is in the top 1.5% of 18 year olds."
},
{
"end_time": 3843.541,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3816.732,
"text": " I'm in the top 1% for low inflammation. I'm in the top 1% for fat, optimal fat, top 1% for optimal muscle, top 1% for strength. It's like if you go down my list of my biomarkers, I basically have achieved top 1% in almost every single category. Now this is a stunning accomplishment because I arrived here from a real serious deficit after two decades of really destroying my body through entrepreneurship martyrdom."
},
{
"end_time": 3857.415,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3843.882,
"text": " And also through depression. And so the fact that my body could bounce back this much. And so when you pose the question like, do you do sauna, it's not that sauna is not helpful. It's that..."
},
{
"end_time": 3884.906,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3858.148,
"text": " What therapies have I had to do to achieve top 1% in all of these categories? Now, if somebody wants to challenge and say like, we think that sauna is really integral, like post your biomarkers, like even though that's not going to be the sole contributor to it, post your biomarkers. And right now I potentially have for my age, the best biomarkers in the world. And even in many regards, better biomarkers than like 99% of 20 year olds."
},
{
"end_time": 3912.415,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3885.418,
"text": " And so for us, that's how we stabilize our thought process. This is not a health influencer approach where it's like do celery juice because it's trendy and cool. We're saying take the best science, measure everything as robustly as you can, and then use that data on biological age comparison charts. And that's the way you determine the efficacy of the protocol. And that's why I think that we've built the best protocol in human history is the data shows it."
},
{
"end_time": 3943.404,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3913.439,
"text": " So in other words, look, there are these biomarkers. If you were to list them out completely, there's some list of 23,000 people and you would be scored in the top 1000, if not top 100, maybe top 50, whatever. The point is someone's like, why don't you introduce X into your protocol? You're saying, look, we've tried it. It doesn't move the needle. Doesn't make me higher on that one out of the 23,000. Exactly right. Okay, great. So what about NMN? What is NMN? And then tell us your experiments with it."
},
{
"end_time": 3965.35,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3944.206,
"text": " Yeah, you're trying to get intracellular NAD levels. So it's like a source of energy in your body. And with age, this NAD level goes down in your body. And so you can take either NMN or NR. They both work."
},
{
"end_time": 3986.766,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3965.879,
"text": " And you can increase your intracellular NAD levels. So a lot of people are familiar with NAD drips. You get a needle into a vein and you get some NAD. You can also do it via oral supplementation. So I tried NR for 90 days. I tried NMN for 90 days. They both helped me achieve these levels. So they both work."
},
{
"end_time": 4015.606,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3987.176,
"text": " And so my intercellular entity levels are pegged at age 16, which is like roughly 50 something. I forget the unit of measure, but I'm, I'm sure at age 16. And so it's a very easy marker to win at. And so I take currently, I take, uh, I think 675 milligrams a day of NR. Okay. And is it sublingual or is it just in capsule form? Just a capsule form. Yep. Have you tried sublingual NMN? Sorry to interrupt."
},
{
"end_time": 4035.913,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 4015.998,
"text": " What I meant was some people on the YouTube scene who have discounted NMN and I'm speaking about NMN not NR right now."
},
{
"end_time": 4064.582,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 4036.578,
"text": " have said, well, look, the studies don't show that it has benefits, but the people who take it, who have benefits, take it sublingually. Whereas the majority of the studies are in capsule form. So I'm curious if you tried sublingual NMN. Oh, we haven't yet. No, just capsule. Actually, I'm sorry. NMN is powder, the one I tried. And then NR is in capsule. I see. Yeah. But yeah, those debates really need to be settled with data."
},
{
"end_time": 4095.623,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 4065.93,
"text": " You know how there's the blueprint protocol. Is there also something you're developing that would be a protocol for how someone can measure themselves in a similar manner to you, maybe not as extensively, but a measurement protocol? Yeah, we I'm currently building a don't die nation state."
},
{
"end_time": 4121.493,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 4096.698,
"text": " On a list of ambitions, the ambition level would go from start a company, start a country, start a religion, become God, each one being more ambitious."
},
{
"end_time": 4150.52,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 4122.432,
"text": " The next step after building a company is to start a country where you're working on societal advance with a very large number of people. And so we're trying, I'm trying to build a don't die nation state because if you're serious about your health and wellness and you really do believe that we are at this really special moment in the galaxy of where we're at, there's no government in the world actually helping you not die. In fact, most of them are enablers of a death economy."
},
{
"end_time": 4180.691,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 4151.442,
"text": " They actively allow companies to help you die faster. And so as part of that, I want to bring measurement in a group buying sense to as many people as we can around the globe. So we can say, here's my measurement protocol, but it's not something that I can do individually. I can't just start a company that enables this because you need to measure with blood and ultrasound imaging, MRI and ultrasound, DNA methylation. There's so many measurements that need to be done."
},
{
"end_time": 4208.848,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 4181.22,
"text": " You really need to power an entire ecosystem system of providers to help people do it. So we're going to try to be the community organizer of this nation state enabling the measurement. And by a nation state at this point, what you mean is just a large enough cohort that it could rival a country. But do you eventually have aspirations for a separate legal entity like a legal nation state? Yes. Yeah. So we, this is a concept by biology network state."
},
{
"end_time": 4236.049,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 4209.121,
"text": " So yes, like we initially started as community doing these practices together. And then yes, we would seek diplomatic recognition. We would build an archipelago of in-person locations around the world. We would negotiate with nation states. So yes, like the goal is to have nation state status and to be on the global scene as a nation state. When did this idea occur to you?"
},
{
"end_time": 4261.954,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 4237.619,
"text": " I had been percolating this idea as I built Blueprint, seeing that we were being successful with me as an n equals one and others for wanting to do this, but it is so hard to do. It's just almost impossible. It's why we made the Blueprint stack available for everyone, like the lowest cost, easiest thing to do. But when you start getting into the more advanced things,"
},
{
"end_time": 4291.92,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 4262.534,
"text": " And when you say it's super hard, you mean to say it's financially hard or in terms of time commitment or mentality? There's a few barriers. For example, I'll do a whole body MRI scan where I'll look for cancer or other problems."
},
{
"end_time": 4320.555,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 4292.671,
"text": " That's not something that that insurance will cover is a proactive thing. Right. And so you have to come with that a pocket. And sometimes that's like a barrier. Sometimes when you go to your doctor and you're like, hey, doctor, I'd like to get a blood panel and look at these markers. They'll be like, why do you want that? Do you have any symptoms? You know, like they give you such a hard time. You can't get it done. You can't just order a blood draw without your doctor's approval. You have to go through your doctor to see them."
},
{
"end_time": 4340.691,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 4320.759,
"text": " Sometimes the imaging center doesn't even have the protocols to do it because they service insurance companies all day and they take care of insurance companies. So the entire system is built."
},
{
"end_time": 4360.606,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 4341.049,
"text": " For the masses, which makes sense, but that eliminates anyone else trying to do things for their health. And so we find ourselves fighting all day every day with the entire medical infrastructure trying to get basic things done. We've solved most of those things, but still we fight it every day."
},
{
"end_time": 4384.036,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 4361.135,
"text": " Yes, I know from personal experience, I wanted to get something tested. I don't know, it could be vitamin D levels, something like that. And the doctor was saying, well, why there's nothing wrong with you, you're not exhibiting any symptoms. And they don't have this concept or maybe they do in their personal life, but in their professional life, not one of living optimally. They have one of if you're sick, let's try to figure it out. And then let's remove the sickness. Yes."
},
{
"end_time": 4410.026,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 4384.445,
"text": " Are you planning on expanding the blueprint so that I in Canada, by the way, and maybe you could speak to people in the States or elsewhere, can go in order, can go in person and get some tests done like a DEXA scan or an MRI scan or some blood tests. Yeah, that's what we're hoping to do. And so there will be a few layers. One is each country is going to be unique with their own system."
},
{
"end_time": 4427.056,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 4410.691,
"text": " Two is that we want to be a group buying club. So let's just say in Canada, somebody offers DEXA and we can go to them and say, hey, we have 2000 people in your area that would get DEXA scans, but you've got to give us a better price."
},
{
"end_time": 4446.869,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4427.671,
"text": " So we can do significant group negotiating and then we can also do other things where people can introduce therapies to the group in a decentralized fashion. So we're trying to figure out how to break down all the barriers from a cost and accessibility perspective around the world. It's going to be a challenging thing."
},
{
"end_time": 4477.261,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4447.517,
"text": " Healthcare is not like just scaling Bitcoin. Like you have really real world hard problems of accessibility. Actually, no, that Bitcoin analogy is off because Bitcoin is also equally hard because you're talking about jurisdictions, governments, regulations. I take that back. It's not as easy as like software where you'd log into a website, you know, like it's very easily scalable in the world. You have really hard problems to overcome in all countries. OK, you've given people a great teaser. So what do you see as the timeline for this?"
},
{
"end_time": 4507.295,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4478.66,
"text": " I hope we'll launch the beta app in, um, like June. And so the first thing we're trying to do is, so one thing we did at Venmo, which was unique is prior to Venmo, people imagined their financial transactions to be private. That, you know, what you spent and with whom was like proprietary to your party. Venmo made that open in public. So you're sharing openly like, Hey, we went, you know, thanks for the meal last night or whatever."
},
{
"end_time": 4535.776,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4507.654,
"text": " And so it became a social interaction. And we're doing the same with health data. So we're going to trial. Your wearable will be integrated directly with the community app. And so your data will stream to your friends. And so they'll see your exercise. They'll see your sleep. And now you can comment on it as well. But it's a change in mentality from right now. You perceive your health data as largely private."
},
{
"end_time": 4561.357,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4536.374,
"text": " And we're going to say, actually, this is just public. So there you have all of your friends streaming in real time. So if you have a poor night's sleep, I can call you say, hey, friend, like, how are you? Okay. So it really, we'll see whether people like it or dislike it. But I've been doing this myself. Like I've been streaming my data live and you know, initially it's, it's nerve wracking. It takes a bit to get over that mindset, but I'm just naked in front of the world now and it's fine."
},
{
"end_time": 4587.619,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4562.807,
"text": " Brian, to close the loop on the sauna question, do you also do ice baths or no for the same reason or cold showers? Yeah, I do not do cold therapy and it's for the same reasons. It's not that it's not without potential benefit. It just doesn't have the evidence on increasing lifespan. What is rapamycin and why do you take the dosage that you take?"
},
{
"end_time": 4615.913,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4588.609,
"text": " RAPA is probably one of the only anti-aging therapies that has general consensus among the quote-unquote experts, where most everyone disagrees on almost everything, but RAPA seems to have a lot of support from people in the anti-aging community. I take a protocol where I do 13 milligrams of RAPA on week zero,"
},
{
"end_time": 4645.794,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4616.203,
"text": " and then six milligrams week one, 13 week two, and we arrive at that protocol. So it basically is one of the most powerful agents to slow the rate of aging damage. And so the way we do this, it's helpful to understand this, that knowing what dose to take is really important. Something like how much vitamin D should you take is an example. And so the way you know how much vitamin D to take is"
},
{
"end_time": 4675.811,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4646.084,
"text": " You first get a baseline measurement of your vitamin D levels. If they are below the appropriate range, optimal range, then you decide to take a certain dose. You take it for a certain duration of time, and then you measure again. And so we did that same with rapamycin, where we measured my rapamycin, my serolimus levels, two hours after dose, 24, 48, 72, 96. So because you want to see the half-life of the drug, because you're trying to hit a C max, the peak, and then see the decay curve."
},
{
"end_time": 4701.442,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4677.039,
"text": " What in the longevity community or anti-aging community, what do they take as rapamycin as the standard dosage? It's my understanding that you take a larger dosage than usual, but I don't know if my understanding is flawed. Yeah, I do. My dose is on the larger side. It's really not known what the optimal dose is."
},
{
"end_time": 4730.077,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4702.5,
"text": " The wisdom has been, and whether this is correct or incorrect, I don't think people know, is to take as much rapa as you can, just shy of side effects. And so I know that if I increase more than what I have now, I'll get sores on the side of my mouth. They heal, but I get sores. So yeah, I think it's an emergent area. I think several of us are experimenting."
},
{
"end_time": 4754.224,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4730.896,
"text": " But I don't think any of us really know. Does the blueprint protocol itself include therapies that have only been shown to work on mice? Yes. Elaborate on that. Is that controversial? Do you see that as sound or how do you feel about that? Yeah, we we have a grading curve. We use 14"
},
{
"end_time": 4780.265,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4754.701,
"text": " biostatistical criteria on assessing whether or not we would trust the evidence in a paper. And so yes, we use animal models. We use human models. So we're open to all the different models. And so like with animal, there's just a process on looking at where the evidence came from and whether you can do it. So it's not always the case that we do so, but yes, we're open to it."
},
{
"end_time": 4808.968,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4780.998,
"text": " When I was watching some of your videos like you have this wonderful one which I will link in the description and it will be on screen right now about something apologies if I'm not stating the name correctly but something like 24 hours in the life of Brian Johnson taking us through your routine. You mentioned that you have a mild calorie restriction. Now I wasn't sure if that's the same as a mild calorie deficit like explain elaborate on that please. One of the one the more"
},
{
"end_time": 4838.456,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4810.896,
"text": " One of the stronger outcomes in the anti-aging world is caloric restriction. It's not without question. There's a lot of questions that people are asking. I've been on a caloric restriction diet for several years and initially I was 20% caloric restricted. So for my age and level of activity, the recommended"
},
{
"end_time": 4866.681,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4838.916,
"text": " Daily allowance would be 2,500 calories a day, and so I was doing just under 2,000 calories a day. I got pretty lean in doing so, and we wondered if I could go to 10% caloric restriction, add back in 250 calories roughly, and still achieve the same benefits. And so we did, we adjusted to around 2250, and my biomarkers have remained unchanged."
},
{
"end_time": 4886.715,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4867.056,
"text": " So it seems that whether you do a 20% caloric restriction or 10%, we couldn't pick up the difference in my biomarkers. They apparently seem to accomplish the same objective. Now, the next test would be to go to 2500 calories and see if there's any effect for caloric restriction or whether it's the same."
},
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"end_time": 4915.265,
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"start_time": 4887.159,
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},
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"end_time": 4941.34,
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"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
},
{
"end_time": 4964.701,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4941.34,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothies, and Brooklynin. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com"
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"end_time": 4991.886,
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"start_time": 4964.701,
"text": " It seems to me, unless your weight is decreasing every week or so that that's not technically a caloric restriction, that that's just maintenance. Yes, that's right. Yes, you basically I agree take the body basically adjusts."
},
{
"end_time": 5020.828,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4992.363,
"text": " It's like we've seen interesting outcomes, like for example, body temp temperature is typically 98.7 Fahrenheit. That's quote unquote normal. My waking body temp hovers around like 94.9, 95.95. So it's dropped around three, three and a half degrees Fahrenheit since doing this. So my body just has a, yeah, it's a cooler state than when I started."
},
{
"end_time": 5049.275,
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"start_time": 5022.039,
"text": " Have you heard of orthotropics or mewing? I have. Okay, please tell us your findings. Oh, I'm familiar with it. We haven't done a deep dive in it though, so I couldn't comment on it. Would you like to try mewing? It's my understanding you have bruxism. Yeah, I have had bruxism. So it's basically arrested since I've been using this device called the Somnodent."
},
{
"end_time": 5079.735,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 5049.735,
"text": " It's an oral appliance that arrests the upper and lower teeth and stops me from grinding. Yeah, I don't have it and so I don't know anything about it. We have not done a deep dive on it."
},
{
"end_time": 5109.804,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 5080.145,
"text": " Despite the benefits, incorporate coffee. Coffee has some beneficial nutrients. It's great for a nutrition perspective. However, I personally get addicted to it. I enjoy the caffeine high for the first few days. Then on day four or five, I find myself needing to drink coffee to feel normal again."
},
{
"end_time": 5137.056,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 5110.196,
"text": " Yes. And then I'm just in a constant deficit. I see. And so I've tried several times to start. I've tried different amounts of caffeine and coffee a different time of the day, but inevitably it leaves me in tatters after about a week. I see. That's if you were to abstain from it after consuming it for a while. So if it was to be incorporated into a protocol, what difference would it make if you needed to stay normal? Oh, I'm saying that"
},
{
"end_time": 5166.22,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 5138.746,
"text": " Even after a week, I need coffee just to feel normal. But then after that temporary high, I drop back down into a deficit. So it puts me in a permanent deficit where I get back up to normal to some amount of time and then I drop back down. What would be the differences between the Mediterranean diet and your diet? They're very close."
},
{
"end_time": 5195.384,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 5167.739,
"text": " What would be the key difference then? I'm vegan. In the Mediterranean diet, there's some level of meat. So I'm vegan for ethical reasons. It's the only preference I've superimposed on Blueprint. Everything else is driven by science. And so the contemplation was, could we do this from a vegan perspective?"
},
{
"end_time": 5224.36,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 5196.817,
"text": " Then I don't eat pastas. And I eat a lot of olive oil, extra virgin olive oil is 15% of my daily diet. And I eat a lot of vegetables and lentils. So there's a lot of similarities. What do you make of the carnivore diet? I've really... Besides the ethical issues. Yeah. I've really not..."
},
{
"end_time": 5254.48,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 5224.889,
"text": " I stepped into the carnivore and vegan war where the moment you enter the conversation, everyone pulls out their sword and runs to the battlefield. It's really emotionally charged. I've taken a stance where I am vegan by choice, but you do you. If meat is your thing, do your thing."
},
{
"end_time": 5281.015,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 5255.026,
"text": " And the thing we can all do is measure biomarkers and we can assess how the diets are doing for us. And so of all the, I mean, my preference is to try to tackle the future of the human race. And I don't want to waste any capital I have on doing warfare on things that I don't think are really going to win. It's just no one wins in that battle."
},
{
"end_time": 5311.015,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 5282.312,
"text": " Would you do an AB test with the blueprint protocols except what you change is that one person or one set of people are given high quality proteins or high quality lean meats, maybe fish and then others vegan? Yeah, I mean, people are doing that now. We have a few thousand people doing the blueprint protocol and some are vegan. Some are a carnivore. So we'll have that data. What are your thoughts on ashwagandha? Yeah, I do 600 milligrams a day of that."
},
{
"end_time": 5334.445,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 5312.108,
"text": " Okay, cool. So it's my understanding that if you continue to take ashwagandha, that there's some effect where it reverses its effects until you need to off cycle it or you need to cycle it. Sorry. Have you encountered this with yourself or in the data? I'm not aware of that in the data. How about L-theanine? Do you take that on a daily basis? I believe so."
},
{
"end_time": 5363.148,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 5335.435,
"text": " One of my worries with taking L-theanine at least frequently is that anything that messes with the GABA system, whether it increases or decreases, it's like that's a tricky, thorny issue. So how do you feel about that? Yeah, let me pull this up so I don't speak out of turn and see. Yeah, I take 200 milligrams a day. Yeah, I guess on all these things, I think the points you raise are good and I think that there's"
},
{
"end_time": 5391.101,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 5363.712,
"text": " Many more things we could all raise as we learn more, we just don't know. I always come back to my biomarkers. And that's the thing that I rely upon the most. And again, you go back to my list, it's hard to find anyone in the world with better biomarkers than me at any age."
},
{
"end_time": 5417.534,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 5391.886,
"text": " If we're doing some things wrong, we're doing many, many things right. And like, we don't know where we're at on the known versus unknown spectrum. Like is, is blueprint 99% right or is it 3% right? And we'll learn more. Like we're just getting 3% right and we're still getting these gains. Like we'll know in 10 years, like this is just the inevitable game we play in science. But as far as what we know, yeah, I'm like, you know, among best in world."
},
{
"end_time": 5448.387,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 5418.643,
"text": " You mentioned that much of Blueprint is N equals one. Is there at least an N equals two around? Do you have someone else, a guinea pig, a personal one, and not just on the internet anonymously? Yeah, a coworker. My 27-year-old coworker did it as a female. So we have an N equals two. She did the entire Blueprint protocol for 90 days and tracked all of her biomarkers. And then we have a few thousand people on the Blueprint stack that are also extensively measuring their biomarkers. Someone on Reddit wanted to know, what is your opinion on"
},
{
"end_time": 5477.841,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 5449.172,
"text": " Fresh fruit, freeze-dried fruit, frozen fruit, and juiced fruit. Whatever the process is, the question is what nutrients are retained. For example, we have some dried fruit, like some berries as part of our blueprint stack."
},
{
"end_time": 5503.729,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 5477.995,
"text": " Equal in nutrients as fresh, just without the water. And so everything I consume, we try to say that whatever process is, it must yield the same nutritional benefits. If the process diminishes it, then it's not as desirable. Would you say you have a low protein intake compared to what's ordinarily advised?"
},
{
"end_time": 5531.203,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5504.462,
"text": " Yeah, I'm at 110 grams a day. So I weigh 173 pounds, so 74 kilograms. And I think most people in the US think that they should be consuming 150 to 250 grams a day of protein. And so we've done something that kind of challenged a lot of preconceived notions. I'm vegan."
},
{
"end_time": 5558.626,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5531.715,
"text": " and caloric restriction and 110 grams of protein. And even so, I'm top one percentile for fat and muscle and cardiovascular ability. And so we've shown, like a lot of people think that vegans are weak, caloric restriction makes you weak, that low protein wouldn't allow you to put on muscle. But I've shown that we've been able to defy all of those preconceived notions and achieve top 1% of performance on all those metrics."
},
{
"end_time": 5588.097,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5559.326,
"text": " And you're still able to bench press 245 pounds, something like that. That's right. And I don't even work out my chest much. That's just like natural. I'm not routinely building my chest muscles. So you still like when you do bench press, it would be around 240. It's not just something you measured two years ago or something. It's consistent. Yeah, that's right. And so that's you. That is in the top"
},
{
"end_time": 5618.66,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5589.155,
"text": " 10 percentile for 18 year olds. And the reason why you use an 18 year old for strength, because a lot of people will immediately say, that's stupid. Use a 20 year old or drag late twenties, early thirties for strength. But actually you peak it's weight to body ratio and you peak at age 18. And so that's, that's the real comparison. So if you're looking at it from a cause after age 18, even though you, you can get stronger in your twenties and thirties,"
},
{
"end_time": 5634.36,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5619.224,
"text": " What about testosterone replacement therapy?"
},
{
"end_time": 5662.91,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5634.872,
"text": " So Sadguru had some similar advice to you. Your advice is with olive oil and his advice was with ghee, my understanding is."
},
{
"end_time": 5692.807,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5663.49,
"text": " Where do you weigh in on that if you've heard about it? Yeah, I don't know the evidence on ghee. It's not been part of our protocol. It's not risen to the forefront of foods. So I don't know what the evidence is on that. But for some reason, it's not been something my team has suggested is an essential calorie for our intake. Have you heard about the positive effects of going barefoot on the ground? I hear a lot of people talking about it. I'm unfamiliar with the evidence."
},
{
"end_time": 5723.439,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5694.121,
"text": " What is your most outlandish unorthodox idea about biology or aging? Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California and for delivery. That it shouldn't be something we're concerned about."
},
{
"end_time": 5748.882,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5725.862,
"text": " This is the job for the systems, not us. The systems? Yeah. It's not your job to get clean water. You're not going down to the river every morning and fetching water to drink and cook and wash your clothes. It just shows up. Perfect health should be the same. It should just be automated. We should all have it."
},
{
"end_time": 5780.367,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5750.981,
"text": " It shouldn't depend upon income status. It shouldn't depend upon circumstances. We should all just have perfect health. Have you looked into CRISPR gene editing? Yeah, it's exciting. It's a bit off. It's still emergent. I don't think it's... It's too early. It's pretty early. It's like when people speak about graphene for batteries. It's always two years away. Yeah, we're excited about it. It's pretty early, yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 5808.968,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5780.555,
"text": " You mentioned meditation. So plenty of this conversation was revolving around diet and exercise exercise. And there's also the third component of spirituality. Maybe there's a fourth component, but at least three. What else other than meditation do you do? And maybe you don't even consider meditation to be. Yeah, I practice a lot of self talk. So I break myself out into various characters."
},
{
"end_time": 5835.998,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5809.497,
"text": " So it started when I isolated Evening Brian, the version of me that would overeat. And I identify versions of myself that manifest in certain times and places or biochemical states. And he has certain tendencies, he has certain thought processes. And I try to not treat myself as one person, but as multiple people."
},
{
"end_time": 5865.742,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5836.408,
"text": " So that really helps me understand myself, and it enables me to predict my own patterns with much more accuracy. Evening, Brian. So, okay, two questions. One, is that the reason why you stop eating around noon, maybe 11 a.m.? And then my other question, before I forget it, what other Brian's are there? Yeah, it's evening, Brian. Yes, it was a desperate attempt at stopping my self destructive behaviors."
},
{
"end_time": 5893.183,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5866.476,
"text": " in the evening and then it led to a process of me trying to figure out when is the right time to stop eating. And so I ran a few hundred experiments with types of foods and time of last meal and it's all around optimizing for my sleep. Sleep is the single most important thing I do every single day. And so my life is built around sleep."
},
{
"end_time": 5923.387,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5894.599,
"text": " Now, what other Bryans are there other than Evening? I mean, there's ambitious Brian who really cares about being respected by the 25th century. I respect many people who lived in the centuries before our time, and I appreciate what they did that allowed civilization to be in the place we're at. I want to be among the chain of contributors to"
},
{
"end_time": 5951.101,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5924.497,
"text": " our own evolutionary greatness. There is dark humor, Brian, where growing up in Mormon land, you could basically only ever look in the light. You could only ever state positives. You could only ever look towards God. But, you know, looking towards Satan or the darkness or dark humor was forbidden. And so half of reality was hidden from me for the majority of my, until I was like,"
},
{
"end_time": 5957.995,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5951.63,
"text": " Mid twenties and so now i love darkness i love to look in darkness in many ways."
},
{
"end_time": 5987.534,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5958.251,
"text": " I don't know is darkness, right? It's like the ultimate form of darkness because again, like lower status to not know. We value intelligence on knowing and scores and tests and rankings. IQ is not a test of what you don't know. It's a different form of intelligence. And so it's hard to really quantify I don't know. And then there's like playful Brian where I like"
},
{
"end_time": 6016.578,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5987.773,
"text": " Being in a kid-like state and just being silly and messing around and having no adult-like responsibilities or no expectations on how I must be. So yeah, I've written down all these characters. In fact, my book, Don't Die, I broke myself out into multiple characters and they all have a dialogue about the future of being human. And so there's depression, Brian, there and there's like devil may care. Was that therapeutic to write?"
},
{
"end_time": 6042.585,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 6017.807,
"text": " Yes. Yeah, I got to like, you know, have playful banter in between myself and like make fun of myself and make sharp, sharp jabs. So, yeah, it was fun. So then did you ultimately end up on an interplay of them being the solution or one or there's a ranking of them where one rules out? It was. Ultimately, I guess the spoiler of the book."
},
{
"end_time": 6071.749,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 6043.78,
"text": " The end showcases that Brian is evolving and as part of that process he leaves behind certain characters. So there's certain versions of Brian that die and there's other versions of Brian that carry on. And then also these various characters give voices to the various opinions that people have. And I know these from having these dinners. The majority of these dinners they break out into"
},
{
"end_time": 6100.52,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 6072.619,
"text": " So then don't die doesn't apply to all the personalities?"
},
{
"end_time": 6121.886,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 6102.739,
"text": " That's right. The idea of don't die is presented and several of the Brian's don't sign up. Would you want them to sign up? No, this is like the example of Tony Robbins wife, right? Like she, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 6150.435,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 6122.5,
"text": " She is like, don't Tony was like, look, I'm serious about don't die. And his wife is like, actually die is actually kind of cool. And Tony's like, oh, you're right. It's like he, he was compromised on his don't die objectives. And so there's just competing perspectives on, you know, like there's this idea that balance is, is, is good. You know, like, if you, if you throw out the word,"
},
{
"end_time": 6180.759,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 6151.442,
"text": " Of the philosophies of the past like Zen Buddhism, which is about the middle path or balance or I say stoicism,"
},
{
"end_time": 6209.616,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 6181.613,
"text": " What do you align most with? I really align most with matrix multiplication of the LLMs. I believe in a mathematical existence and I would love to live in a mathematical reality. And words are a"
},
{
"end_time": 6237.073,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 6210.333,
"text": " An attempt, a low dimensional attempt at trying to quantify biochemical states and words and the frameworks humans have offered up are just not computationally as robust as our methodologies. And so I think they're all inferior to what our computational models will offer us in an existence in consciousness. In addition to specific practices, do you spend any time developing a"
},
{
"end_time": 6265.418,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 6237.619,
"text": " theoretical framework for improving aging akin to a longevity toe. So just for people who are interested in what I'm referring to this channel itself is called theories of everything. And we interview people on their different theories of everything usually in a physics sense. But anyhow, Brian, what I'm asking is, are you working on a longevity toe? We we have a map that like one of the more interesting things that"
},
{
"end_time": 6293.882,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 6266.22,
"text": " I've seen is one of the researchers in this field presented a slide one time and they showed on one page 500 lines of how aging happens in the body. And it was meant to depict how complicated of a problem it is and how many things we need to get done. And so it's pretty hard. There's a few people trying to create cohesive theories about aging and how it's to be addressed."
},
{
"end_time": 6323.387,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 6296.015,
"text": " It's not clear to me where we're at in our maturity of understanding that we can put forward those theories. So we really are more on the practitioner side and less on theoretical because theoretical, there's not a payoff. You know, like for the moment you do theory to practice, you're looking at some time span and we're really trying to, I'm trying to demonstrate the four minute mile."
},
{
"end_time": 6350.708,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 6324.07,
"text": " Hmm. I'm trying to showcase or I'm trying to like Amelia Earhart did traverse the Atlantic You know in an airplane or I'm trying to like take any other or summit Everest or get to the bottom of the sea I'm trying to do something. No human has ever done and that most people believe is impossible but yet when one human does it then every human can do it or most human most every human can do it and so that's really what I'm after is a"
},
{
"end_time": 6380.794,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 6350.964,
"text": " I'm trying to accelerate our evolutionary move towards Don't Die as the guiding philosophical, economic, political, moral, ethical framework of our existence. The Don't Die is the operating system of society. It seems like you have achieved the four-minute mile when it comes to sleep. Please tell people about this ridiculous sleep score that you have. Yeah, it's the best sleep score ever recorded."
},
{
"end_time": 6410.913,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 6381.544,
"text": " And, uh, not to say that others could do it. I mean, it's achievable, but I had eight months of perfect sleep, uh, 100% a score. And yeah, it was, I, um, we all know how well we feel when we sleep well. And we definitely know how horrible we feel when we don't sleep well. Exactly. It's like, it changes your conscious experience dramatically. And there's nothing that changes existence more than sleep."
},
{
"end_time": 6439.616,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 6411.63,
"text": " And even still, the fact that it is the single most powerful thing, somehow we have downgraded its importance to when we get around to it and or celebrating when people don't do it. And so like these moments, I love trying to find clarifying moments of how we're currently insane. We look back at previous generations and we can clearly see their insanity."
},
{
"end_time": 6467.022,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 6440.828,
"text": " But seeing our own insanity is much harder. And our opinions and behaviors towards sleep are insane. So yeah, I was trying to demonstrate that one can achieve predictable, high-quality sleep in eight months in a row, and it will change your life. And so yeah, I built my life around it, and I published all my protocols."
},
{
"end_time": 6497.415,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 6467.551,
"text": " All right, Brian. Well, there's so much more I could talk to you about. We can go on for hours and hours and I hope we do. I hope I get to meet you in person, maybe do your protocol at your place. I was envious of that lady in that video, which I'll put on screen. You are now speaking directly to the audience. What message do you have for them to take away with as they watch and they think"
},
{
"end_time": 6523.456,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 6497.654,
"text": " Okay, great. Now what? Yeah. Hi, friends. It's wonderful to see all of you. I hope this has been a helpful conversation. I would invite each of you to consider making Don't Die your primary identity in life. And to do that, it's"
},
{
"end_time": 6550.742,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 6524.138,
"text": " What we discussed, it's believing that we are baby steps away from superintelligence, that we are potentially at the doorstep of the most extraordinary existence intelligence has seen in this part of the galaxy. And that to achieve that, we do need to transcend ourselves and evolve into a species that is trying to eliminate sources of death individually,"
},
{
"end_time": 6580.179,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 6551.152,
"text": " Collectively the planet and we need to align AI with don't die That this is sensible and that these things begin on a day-to-day basis So it's saying no to junk food and fast food and saying yes to healthy food It's putting systems in place so that you don't need to rely upon your willpower. It's knowing that you will make the wrong decision When given the opportunity so it's not having junk food in the house getting rid of all of it is making your bedtime your number one priority so"
},
{
"end_time": 6595.913,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 6580.759,
"text": " You can take small, measurable baby steps to get into this, but really to understand the world that a new opportunity is here. And so I hope that you will join this with me, that we do need to build this globally and that if enough of us do it,"
},
{
"end_time": 6626.135,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 6596.971,
"text": " Brian, man."
},
{
"end_time": 6652.244,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 6626.715,
"text": " Thank you for spending so much time with me. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. All right. Don't go just yet. There's something you should know about. There are just, in my opinion, a handful of truly innovative incubators. And of that handful, there aren't any that are started by someone as young and as ambitious as my friend Adam, who created Echo Lopto."
},
{
"end_time": 6682.193,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 6652.244,
"text": " EchoLopto's polymath events are a highly curated ecosystem for interdisciplinary minds to discuss their most unorthodox ideas with a critically receptive audience. Their next polymath event will be in Boston during September, followed by December in Silicon Valley. Follow them on Instagram and X at EchoLopto so that's E-K-K-O-L-A-P-T-O or visit the website ekkolapto.org."
},
{
"end_time": 6708.865,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 6682.483,
"text": " By the way, Ecolopto is Greek for the word incubate slash emergence. You can also see my talk at the last Ecolopto polymath event here. I think Ecolopto is going to be a large favorable force in the world, a nourishing one, which is why I'll be at both events, Boston and Cambridge. I know the owner personally, and I can attest to the vision and the initiative behind it. Also, I just wanted to place a thank you to the Redditors. There are too many here to count."
},
{
"end_time": 6734.292,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 6708.865,
"text": " I went back through the questions and here are the user names on screen associated with questions that I've asked that were similar. So thank you to all these people. Firstly, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. There's now a website, curtjymongle.org, and that has a mailing list. The reason being that large platforms like YouTube, like Patreon, they can disable you for whatever reason, whenever they like."
},
{
"end_time": 6760.623,
"index": 251,
"start_time": 6734.292,
"text": " That's just part of the terms of service. Now, a direct mailing list ensures that I have an untrammeled communication with you. Plus, soon I'll be releasing a one-page PDF of my top 10 toes. It's not as Quentin Tarantino as it sounds like. Secondly, if you haven't subscribed or clicked that like button, now is the time to do so. Why? Because each subscribe, each like helps YouTube push this content to more people like yourself"
},
{
"end_time": 6778.097,
"index": 252,
"start_time": 6760.623,
"text": " Plus, it helps out Kurt directly, aka me. I also found out last year that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that whenever you share on Twitter, say on Facebook or even on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube. Hey, people are talking about this content outside of YouTube."
},
{
"end_time": 6807.381,
"index": 253,
"start_time": 6778.166,
"text": " which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube. Thirdly, there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes. They disagree respectfully about theories and build as a community our own toe. Links to both are in the description. Fourthly, you should know this podcast is on iTunes. It's on Spotify. It's on all of the audio platforms. All you have to do is type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Personally, I gained from rewatching lectures and podcasts."
},
{
"end_time": 6827.346,
"index": 254,
"start_time": 6807.381,
"text": " I also read in the comments"
},
{
"end_time": 6853.575,
"index": 255,
"start_time": 6827.346,
"text": " and donating with whatever you like. There's also PayPal. There's also crypto. There's also just joining on YouTube. Again, keep in mind it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You also get early access to ad free episodes, whether it's audio or video. It's audio in the case of Patreon video in the case of YouTube. For instance, this episode that you're listening to right now was released a few days earlier. Every dollar helps far more than you think."
},
{
"end_time": 6857.381,
"index": 256,
"start_time": 6853.746,
"text": " Either way, your viewership is generosity enough. Thank you so much."
},
{
"end_time": 6885.043,
"index": 257,
"start_time": 6870.162,
"text": " Raise a spoon to Grandma, who always took all the hungry cousins to McDonald's for McNuggets and the Play Play Slide. Have something sweet in her honor. Come to McDonald's and treat yourself to the Grandma McFlurry today. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's for a limited time."
}
]
}No transcript available.