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The Best of Lue Elizondo | UFOs, Human History, Altered DNA
December 22, 2023
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The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze.
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Where senior editors argue through the news with world leaders and policy makers in twice weekly long format shows. Basically an extremely high quality podcast. Whether it's scientific innovation or shifting global politics, The Economist provides comprehensive coverage beyond headlines. As a toe listener, you get a special discount. Head over to economist.com slash TOE to subscribe. That's economist.com slash TOE for your discount.
Imagine everything you've been taught whether it's through Sunday school or what our political leaders have told us turned out to be not entirely accurate. The meaning what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe. How much of our own history do we really know? We can go back 5,000 years pretty easily. 8,000 years things start to get a little murky. Anything much beyond that we really have no clue about. There is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long long
I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon. I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps hopefully at some point a new understanding. I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time.
Lou Elizondo has been on the Theories of Everything podcast three times, each of which has a link in the description. Almost every one of those appearances tends to be one of the highest rated videos of all of the Lou Elizondo appearances on different podcasts and different platforms during that period. What you're about to see are the most viewed juicy clips from those sessions in one compilation. If you'd like to watch any of these in full,
The links are in the description as well as the pinned comment. This compilation is in preparation for a behemoth interview with Liu in person, so if you have a question for him, leave it below. Think of this whole anthology as an early Christmas gift. My name's Kurtjmongol, and this podcast is Theories of Everything, where we explore the topics of physics, mathematics, free will, consciousness, and AI, even God, primarily from an analytic, technical, academic perspective, but as well as starting two years ago,
If you could start over and pursue a different educational path with the hopes of understanding UAPs more fully, what degree would you choose? I would probably start with philosophy. And why is that? Because philosophy is one of the few areas that teaches you how to think and not what to think, right?
In the topic of UAPs, it's not a matter of what, it's how. How do we process the data? How does this apply to our species? Where we're going, where we're from, et cetera. There's very few academic pursuits that teach somebody how to think. Most people, and I can tell you this from personal experience with my children, most schools teach kids what to think. And that's a problem because we've forgotten what real teaching is about.
I can instruct somebody on how to do something, but real teaching is something different. A lot of the Eastern philosophies understood that. It's not teaching somebody the specifics. It's teaching somebody how to find the data themselves. And I think I would probably
Start with that, maybe do some reading on people who look at things maybe a little bit differently, right? And are prescribing you what to think, but more importantly, again, how to think. Would you consider yourself to be an idealist or a materialist? And if you are unsure what those words mean? No, I know they are. Is there an option C?
Which would be what mix? Can it be both? Or neither? That's something I've been wondering, is there a duality between those two? There's plenty of dualities in math and physics, where you think it's the option between two, but turns out that they're equivalent ways of describing the system. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure it's an either or I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive. I think, you know, I my background was science.
In science, I found my solace, which I enjoyed. I grew up kind of an angry young kid, had some tough times as a kid. But science to me was unwavering. She was always there for me. She never lied to me. And so I get lost in science. And I do believe in the scientific method.
It works. It's a perfect no, but it's the best thing that we got right now that we know to test and apply theories. But at the same time, there's something more you said about human consciousness. You can't prove it. There's no mathematical formula, no physical evidence to prove consciousness. And here we are having a conversation. So I don't think
I don't think the two are mutually, I don't consider myself a materialist or an idealist. Like I said, it's, you know, I make fun of the fact that I, you know, I said, I love humanity, it's humans I don't like, right? How is that possible, right? Because humanity is a collective of all the humans and yet, but probably a little bit of both. Probably a little bit, I think there's an indelible aspect to the human being that is
that transcends physicality. We have a body, obviously, and we have a brain, and our brain is inextricably tied for metabolic processes to survive to the body. The heart has to pump blood to get blood to the brain, otherwise the brain dies. And in the same respect, the brain is regulating all the autonomic processes for the body. So breathing, which is automatic, thank God for most of us anyways,
and heartbeat and temperature and whatnot. So the brain is a biological organ that is inextricably tied to the overall vehicle, which is the body, and that's organic as well. But there's probably something more to the human being. There's probably something more that is not necessarily physical.
because a computer has a processor, a computer has a body, right? The laptop I'm talking to you on right now, and it's got a processor that's thinking, if you will, for the computer, but it's not a conscious living being, it's not a sentient being. So the question is, what is that extra component, that extra ingredient that makes us human, that makes us living, breathing, not only animal, but truly human, what separates us from everything else on this planet?
And there's that third ingredient can be described potentially in cultures as the soul or the id or the chi, you know, put your nom de jour you want on there. But I think a lot of people agree that there's something different. Case in point, the notion of love. You can't really describe it, it's hard to describe, you can't see it, you can't touch it and taste it. But it's there and it motivates a lot of people's
actions. In fact, love to some degree actually works against individual survival, and yet a mother's instinct to throw herself in front of a train to save her child is almost reflexive. There's something there that recognizes the value of human life, human dignity. I could be in a car accident and lose use of my arms and my legs, but I'm still Luis Elizondo.
I could suffer a traumatic brain injury and have a severe TBI and be mentally impaired, but I'm still Lou Elizondo. What makes Lou Elizondo Lou is something a little bit different, something that you can't really put your finger on. And so back to this duality, materialist versus idealist, I'm probably a little bit of both because I believe in science, but I also know that there's limitations to science.
And there's limitations to human beings, and there's limitations to you and me and everybody else. And that's okay. And that there's aspects to being human that are probably potentially more human than human to use an old cliche. Is there another reason outside of national security that they don't want you to disclose what you may disclose or they're worried you may? Yeah, I mean, what is their worry outside of them?
There have been, you know, forbidden truths, we can call them, if you will. There have been forbidden truths in the history of not just our country, but many countries. Truths that could upset a balance, a balance that's been around for a long time. Let me give you a case in point. Let's say there were some people that were doing their job by running a UFO program in the past.
Uh, but because certain things happened, um, presidents were no longer briefed. People in Congress are no longer briefed who should have been, and now they're running an operation that's, um, uh, considered rogue, but it's still an important mission. Um, turns out, you know, all of a sudden now, let's say hypothetically the cat's out of the bag. What's going to happen to those people when, when the government realizes they were running operations for better or for worse.
without any oversight, without any legal oversight, right? Who's going to be held accountable for that? The fact that they did not brief legally like they were supposed to. Certain members of Congress and committees and oversight committees and the chain of command, that's potentially criminal action. Let's say, I've said this before, let's say you have two competing companies. You have aerospace company A and aerospace company B.
And Aerospace Company A, for whatever reason, gets a favor and some sort of really exotic game-changing material is provided to that company to do an analysis. Meanwhile, Company B, who is competing fairly, doesn't get that material. Turns out Company A now starts getting a lot of contracts, defense contracts, and becomes a multi-billion dollar company. While Company B, who never had the advantage of having that material,
goes into bankruptcy. Hundreds of people lose their jobs and stockholders lose their investment, keeping in mind that both companies are supposed to be treated fairly and have fair competition when it comes to US government contracts. Now what? Now what happens? Where's the liability? By the way, now these companies are doing good things for the United States, but they got there because they had an unfair advantage.
competitive advantage, potentially. Again, this is hypothetical, right? Where's the liability there? You're talking to trillions and trillions of dollars worth of liability. And who made those decisions to do that? Who's going to be held culpable for that? The Security Exchange Commission would not be very happy to know that two publicly traded companies that were competing for a contract, one had an unfair advantage.
You're talking about big, big money interests. You're talking about things that are going into that gray world that go beyond just government interests. You're talking about banking. You're talking about some of the biggest names on the planet that have a lot to lose or a lot to gain in hindsight.
You know, I think we always have to be careful that governments have always had interesting ties to certain interests. And that's true of all governments. It's not just the U.S. That's everybody. And we need to be mindful of that, because you could be putting some people in a very uncomfortable position. And I'm aware of that. And that's why I've been very delicate how I approach this topic. I'm not trying to beat anybody up.
I'm not trying to expose anybody and say, haha, gotcha, see there. I'm trying to have the conversation in a collaborative, meaningful way where everybody wins. Nobody has to get burned, right? It's not a zero sum game. Hypothetically, do they view it like that? Like there's a potential where everyone can win or do they view it somewhat zero sum? Well, I can't speak for them. I can't tell you what they think. All I can tell you is what I think and my approach. And my approach is to say, look, guys,
We're not trying to expose anybody. This is not a witch hunt. Despite what you may see on social media where everybody wants their pound of flesh, that's not going to get us anywhere. We need to be adults about this and we need to have a conversation that if you really want the truth to come out, you better be willing to compromise.
We're not going to sit there and put people to be eaten by the lions just to satisfy someone's ego or beef that they might have with somebody else. The truth is more important than that. This is not about, see, I told you so, or being vindicated. This is about
having a conversation that can affect all of humanity. And we have to be willing to set aside some of that, if you will. And understandably so, you've got lots and lots of decades worth of people covering this up. I know there's a lot of animosity, resentment as a result of that by people saying, you've been lying to us for the longest time, but we got to be willing to put that aside if we really want to move forward, in my opinion.
You're referring to animosity from the general public or animosity from some of these wolves general public who want their pound of flesh because people have been covering this topic up for too long, knowing that it's real in the line to the American people. Potentially, how long is too long when potentially is it centuries? Is it decades? Well, you know, there's information that goes well, I live here in Wyoming, and I live next to
members of the Crow Nation. And if you've ever had a chance to talk and really engage with Indigenous people, first of all, they're very, very private. Two, they have an incredibly rich history. Their oral traditions and oral history
doesn't go back a few hundred years. It goes back millennia. In fact, when Europe was facing its dark ages and mankind almost went extinct in the European continent and we were burning books, indigenous people over here were experiencing a golden era. That wasn't the case over here. And the way they look at nature, the way they look at this topic, UAP, is not like we look at it through Western eyes.
In fact, they don't view it as a threat at all. In fact, they don't view it even as paranormal. They view it as normal, as part of nature, their natural environment, as real as the lakes and the sky and the trees on the mountains are. And it's just accepted as part of the greater universe. And I think there's some beauty there. They're not held hostage by their fears. In fact, they embrace it.
And that goes to show that you don't have to view this topic as an either or. It doesn't have to be viewed as a threat or as some sort of saving opportunity for our species. It could just be a natural part of our existence. Again, do I subscribe to that?
I don't know, but I certainly think it's another way, another perspective that we should consider. If that is the case and they're right, then we've been dealing with this for millennia. I can tell you that having a chance to talk to some people in the Vatican, they describe these flaming Roman shields in the sky that would follow them from battlefield to battlefield, what they call the eclipus, which is the shape of the Roman shield.
You know, that's documented, that's there. In fact, I think if I'm not mistaken, I haven't read it from Jacques Valais, but from my understanding Jacques Valais even wrote a little bit about that. But I've seen that evidence myself. There is
There is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long, long time. So I don't think it's necessarily modern. Maybe our understanding is a little bit more advanced and maybe consider that modern, but I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon. I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps hopefully at some point a new understanding, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon to mankind. I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time.
You mentioned millennium, which is thousands of years, I'm wondering, potentially tens of thousands, potentially millions, or do you think it's cut off around 9,000 or so? Well, that's hard to tell because we only as a species homo sapiens have been around roughly for 100,000 years. And we only really gotten into written language in the last five, 6,000 years, really.
and been gone from hunter-gatherers to more of an agrarian type organized society, which is if you take 100,000 years and you compare the last 5,000 years, really only the 5% of our entire time rummaging around on this planet has been in somewhat of a civilized fashion. And then if you look at that to the context of it's been only in the last
You know, a thousand years, two thousand years, we understood, you know, the Archimedes steam engine, right? And really didn't even fully appreciate it until the Industrial Revolution just a couple hundred years ago. So now you're talking at, you know, point two percent of mankind's time on Earth. We've been industrialized, we've been civilized. So how much of our own history do we really know? Well, you know, we can go back five thousand years pretty easily.
um 8 000 years things start to get a little murky right and anything much beyond that uh we really have no clue about and the question is have we as a species been aware of this phenomenon much longer well let's look at what we do know um you know the general consensus is that the the the american population let's say american i mean united states i mean north america south america central american population
Really began about 20,000 years ago with during the land bridge when you had a migration coming over the land bridge and settling this part of the planet. But in reality, it turns out now that a lot of scientists believe that there were many migrations and many migrations before that primary migration 20,000 years ago. In fact, there may have been multiple migrations going back, perhaps even 100,000 years ago. So, um,
Is it possible that our society was aware of these things, maybe even interacted with these things in a certain fashion? I'm sure it's possible. Absolutely it's possible. I mean, most of our history we have no idea about, you know, it's like spending an entire day and having amnesia except for the last five minutes before you go to bed, you know? Right. Hell was I? What was I doing? What did I eat? Who did I speak to? What did I say?
What I'm wondering is what you're referencing is written history and I'm curious about archaeological evidence that you're aware of or that potentially exists.
Yeah, so let me give you a real-world example, and I'm not going to either refute or defend it. But again, I live here in Wyoming, and there is a legend here called the Little People of the Piore Mountains. And for generations, the indigenous people have reported what appeared to be this fearsome pygmy warrior tribe of humanoid-type creatures that lived in the mountains.
And for many, many, many years, it was completely considered myth. Folklore, right. And it turns out that scientists began uncovering artifacts up in the mountains that to some degree reinforced the notion that there was some sort of small hominoid type creature living in the mountains. They found small tools. They found, you know, small bones.
that appeared to be coming from some human-like creature. I don't know the details thoroughly. I haven't had a chance to really, really explore it or study it. But that part is true, that people are now beginning to look back and say, well, wait a minute. Is that possible? Because we're starting to find archaeological evidence. So, you know,
It's interesting here, I can walk up into the Big Horn Mountains and they're pulling out spearheads that are 11,000 years old. Now think about that for a minute, 11,000 years old. If that spearhead could talk, what people did it come from? What were they hunting? What did this place look like? You know, environments change in a blink of an eye. Look at the Sahara Desert in 5,000 years.
There was a lot of wildlife living in the Sahara region before it became a desert. And that was in recent human history, by the way. We were inhabiting the planet when that happened. There are drawings on the side of rock walls that illustrate alligators, crocodiles, if you will, and animals that live not just on the savanna, but in the wetlands, all cohabitating there. So this earth is very dynamic.
Every time we have a, you know, for us, it seems like a long time, but every time we have an ice age, every roughly 10, 15,000 years, the entire topography of Earth changes, the climate changes, animals change, people change, right? You know, I think it's very possible that there is potentially some sort of archaeological evidence. The question is, would we recognize it if we saw it? And that's another big question we have to ask ourselves.
Let me ask you this as a scientist, Kurt. If I said to you, Kurt, you have a task. You can make it out of whatever you want, any material you want. Your goal is to, in a million years, you have to create something now that will last a million years to prove you were here. What would you do? How would you do it?
There are some metamaterials that seem to be harder than diamond, so whatever is our hardest material, it would be made out of that. Also, just so you know, I don't classify myself as a scientist. I'm more of a hobbyist, let's say. So that's what I would do.
So you'd find some sort of hard material that would outlast just about anything else on Earth, right? Where would you put it? Orbit is one place. Okay. And hopefully a non-retrograde orbit, right? So geosynchronous and hopefully nothing would perturb it in a million years, chances are something would, but okay, hypothetically in orbit, good. You know, here on Earth,
It's really hard to make anything that lasts more than a few thousand years. You can even make the pyramids and look at them now and say, wow, those things are 5,000 years old, and they don't look so great. And probably in another 5,000 years, they're not going to look good at all. And they might last eventually until a hill of sand in 100,000 years. But that's going to be about it. And that's made out of rock, right? Mount Mushmore, same thing. It's going to be gone in 10,000 years. You won't probably even recognize it'll be too worn.
Even mountains in millions of years become deserts, right? Time moves on. Then you have the subduction zones of Earth that eventually, if you wait long enough on the surface of the planet, it all gets recycled anyways. It's all going to get sucked down into the mantle and get spit out the other end as new land. So nothing is indelible on this planet. It's constantly changing. And to create something that can last the sands of time, so to speak,
is a lot harder than one might think. The few examples we have here on Earth that are man-made, you can look to the pyramids, you can look at things like Stonehenge, but that's a blink of an eye. Those were just made a few thousand years ago and they're not going to be around for a whole lot of time. That's just not the way Earth is. So if we're trying to find some sort of
some sort of marker, chances are you're not going to find it buried in the earth unless it only happened maybe the last 5,000 years ago or so, right? Even some of the most, most dramatic examples of terraforming. Let's look at, for example, uh, the meteor impact crater in, in Arizona happened 60,000 years ago. Um, that's already filling in, you know, in, in another hundred thousand years from now, you may not even know anything ever happened.
because of the processes of Earth and what this planet does. It's constantly erasing what's on the surface and it's constantly burying what lies beneath deeper and deeper and deeper until eventually, you know, it gets recycled. So, you know, that's a hard question. You know, what would last long enough for us to go back and say, wow, this is an indicator of alien life on this planet 100,000 years ago,
What would you have to do to achieve that, to accomplish that? It's a lot harder than one might think. And then again, would you recognize it? One might say, well, DNA. DNA is a perfect example. If you wanted to do something that was enduring for humanity, that we could look back 100,000 years ago and say, yes, that was absolutely manipulated by an intelligent life form. Well, deoxyribonucleic acid
maybe one way to do it. You can put coding and sequencing in there that will perpetuate over time and time, and yes, you'll have some degradation over generations. But in essence, you could do something that way. And basically, it's a biological marker, right? So we have to be careful when we say we look for evidence, because evidence isn't just necessarily a spearhead found in the Big Horn Mountains from 11,000 years ago. It's not necessarily a pyramid sitting in the middle of a desert.
It could be far more sophisticated than that you said put it in orbit, right? Well, what if if we put that rather than orbit we put into the human body? You know, so anyways, that's that's that's so I know it's a very long winded way to answer that question. Yeah, let me ask a quick follow up and then we'll get to super chat questions, audience questions and so on.
Are there places that we should be looking for evidence that you feel like we're not? So for example, I mentioned archaeological investigation sites. The reason I brought that up is some people say craft were found. Okay. But you're also saying there may be other markers, maybe possibly biologically, for example, you know, near earth celestial bodies like the moon, where you don't have atmospheric friction, you don't have the you don't have the tectonic processes that we have here on earth that are constantly cycling, you know, you know, someone might want to put something on the moon.
If you want to, you know, reminiscent of, what was it, 2001 space, 2001 space Odyssey, right? Where you have these monolithic markers. That's certainly one way to do it. You know, you could put something where you don't have those same processes occurring, where maybe you could, you might be able to extend your time twice as long for leaving some sort of archaeological evidence.
The evidence could be right here, could be right in front of us, could be within genetic sequencing. It could even be more obvious than that. It could be the very fact that we're alive and we're on this planet.
is an example of some intelligent life somewhere making a decision that life needs to exist on this planet. We need to be open to all of that. We really do. I think we need to cast a very wide net. And this is why we say all options have to be on the table until they're not on the table, because you may be surprised. Something that's super, super intelligent probably isn't going to build a pyramid that's only going to last, you know,
20,000 years, they're going to do something that's far more enduring, something that will really be, you know, no kidding, you know, maybe I understand. All right, this question comes from Terry Ruckert. So I gotta ask real quick, Kurt, I don't mean what, what, forgive me, and I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this. What is a super chat? I hear it a lot. What's a super chat?
Thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I appreciated a tremendous amount
It's not easy to do this full time. And this is like, this is a place where I have almost no knowledge in Lu as you could probably tell by the by the sophomoric nature of my questions. Kurt, I don't think anybody does. You're not alone, brother. You think I do you think I have all the answers? Don't you think we'd be where we are today? No, I've got more questions and answers, but that's okay.
My fear is when people say they do have all the answers. Those are the people that I don't trust because I know they don't. I've been in this for a long time for the US government and I damn sure don't have all the answers. So don't worry about it. Lou, you mentioned at one point that the present is thick for lack of a better word, cigarette burning as the analogy. And for people who are interested in a more mathematical treatment of that, I spoke to someone named Nicholas Gisson who gave a formalism
to indicate that the present time is thick, that you can't pick out a particular point that as soon as you do, it's almost like honey. So if you're interested in that, I'll put a link in the description. Yeah, no, and we see that very practically in the world of quantum physics and even the expression or the description of an electron. You know, again, for your audience, who's probably my age, remembers in high school, you learn that an electron orbits the nucleus of an atom, but in reality, that's not what's current. We now realize it's
It's called an electron cloud for a reason because of predictability and the fact that the electron can never be isolated in a fixed position. You can't do it. And in fact, some scientists now are speculating that it is because the electron is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It is so small that it may literally be zipping in and out through the very fabric of space-time.
And so it's nonsensical to try to predict the position of an electron because there is no position. It's everywhere and nowhere at the same time around the nucleus of an atom. And, you know, that's some of the observations we're beginning to see now. And let me add to that, that the past and the future are human semantic constructs. It is always now. It always has been now from the universe's perspective.
The past is not something that's sitting next door to us. And another way people think of things, and we think when we say that the stars are very far away, the light took a very long time to travel to us, we're seeing the past. Again, that's a metaphor. We're not seeing the past, we're seeing now. And now is those photons are here hitting your eyes, where at one point they were not.
And so these are arbitrary concepts a lot of times. So we've applied a linear understanding to something that exists on a much deeper way, much deeper spec in a lot of ways. When we talk about going past, going in the future. And I think a lot of what Lou's talking about is that reality is anchored in now and in the present and in the entropic state that we exist in at this moment. And so there's so many variables to that. And we're jumping to motive.
Yeah, I think that's something we just have to keep in mind. Yeah, I'll go even a step further, Kurt, too, with that kind of piggybacking off of what Sean said. You know, the whole notion of here and now is almost nonsensical. Let me give an example. I asked you, Kurt, where are you right now? Let's do a little quick exercise for you and your audience. Where are you right now, Kurt? Let's say Toronto, Canada. Okay, where's Toronto? Where is Toronto?
I don't know how to answer that. Okay, well, where's where's where's Canada? Where's North America? Yeah, right. Right. And where's where's our solar system? Where's our Milky Way? There is no here here. Okay, we invent here because we have to live in an environment where we are used to boundaries and borders in order for us for things to make sense. But in reality, the big scale of things in the scale of the universe,
The notion of here and now is really nonsensical because it depends on where I am relative to everything else. Here and now only exist. Go ahead, Sean, sorry. It's like trying to pick out a specific electron from the electron cloud. Everything is moving so dynamically.
at all times that a location is not a concept either. It's only a location in a certain regional area. And you have to have some kind of substrate to measure that against. And we live in a universe that lacks a substrate. There's no snap tube grid that we can say we've, you know, we're now 14 parsecs northeast to, you know, local globular cluster north. What does that mean? You know, how would you navigate to that?
That's something that really digs into my head. How would we navigate to a point in the past? You have to figure out its location in space-time. We haven't found space-time yet to be a thing to measure in that way. And in fact, you know, if you look at the theory of
Of inflation of the universe during the big bang early parts of the big bang and even now is the expansion of the universe continues to get bigger and faster. You know scientists are now now stating that space itself is space time itself is is being created and that's how you have this this expansion of the universe occurring faster and faster and faster. And that's you know when you when you
When you look at that case in point, let me, let me see if I can, if I can bring this to a little bit easier to understand. Um, the, the universe has been estimated to be almost not quite 14 billion years old, right? And yet when you ask the scientists, how big is our visible universe from end to end, they say it's about 94 billion light years across. Well, how can that be? Because that means the universe has to be expanding faster than the speed of light. Well, not necessarily what's happening.
in theory is that actual space-time itself is expanding as well. Think of probably the best way to explain it would be, imagine water seeping up from the bottom of the bathtub and filling up the bathtub. It's filling up from all sorts of little pores, water's coming out everywhere, not just out of the spigot, but everywhere it's starting to fill up the tub. If that is the case, then
Again, the notion back to where we are in the universe is always changing. In fact, when you say to yourself, and it's a little bit scary to do, but you say, I'll be here tomorrow. No, you won't. You will never be here again. And you can't. It's impossible because
The entire universe isn't static, it's moving. And the only way to know where you are is only relative to other people and where they are. And by the way, they're just as lost as we are. So, and I don't mean that just figuratively, I mean that physically, you know, we are all kind of, kind of scattered to the winds together. And the only way we can kind of relate to each other is, oh, you're, you're, you're kind of close to me. So I guess relative, you know, you're, you're six foot and I'm five foot.
What's his take on alien abduction experience?
They're interesting, they're fascinating, but they're just that, they're an experience. And with every person who talks about how these things may be here for peaceful purposes and just because they've never attacked us means that they're benevolent. There's just as many people who are terrified and report the opposite experience. I've said this before, for record, look, if you take a member of my family against their will somewhere, that's kidnapping.
And God forbid, if you touch him, now that's assault. Both are criminal offenses from my perspective. I don't care what your intent is, bottom line. So if abductions are happening, well, the word of abduction itself is a criminal act, right? It's kidnapping. It's not taking you on a date, it's abduction if that indeed is happening. The problem is it's very hard to quantify and qualify
that aspect of the conversation. Because at the end of the day, you're just relying on eyewitness testimony. There's no gun camera footage. There's no radar data to suggest that. It's just someone's personal experience. And when you do that, you have to consider all sorts of stuff. You're now talking about aspects that involve psychology,
Aspects that involve sociology and aspects that involve philosophy. We all interpret data differently as human beings. Processes occur differently in our brains, biochemically even. So it's very hard to do anything with that data from a military perspective, from a DOD perspective, because
You know, eyewitness testimony is one thing, and even that's tricky sometimes. But when you start talking about experiences, physical experiences from people, and they vary so much in some cases, and some cases are similar, there's not a whole lot I can do with that data. So although it's extremely interesting, fascinating, in fact, it was never really a core part of our research in ATIP. Again, because scientifically, it's very hard to quantify and qualify.
There's nobody else that can, that can say, yes, I saw this person. There's a few small anecdotal examples here and there where people say, yeah, I saw the person disappear or something like that. But that doesn't help us. But we need, we need more information or more data. You know, I will tell you. No, actually, no, wait. Sorry. Yeah, next time. Yeah, it's interesting. Tom DeLong.
I recall was saying one shouldn't do CE5. I'm going to get you to explain what CE5 is. But anyway, one shouldn't do CE5. And when one does it, often orbs are associated with it. And one thinks, oh, that's great, because I'm inducing some contact. And Tom said, be careful, one shouldn't do that lightly. So that to me implies that there's something nefarious or potentially nefarious about these orbs.
Well, I mean, look, I'd say the same thing. Don't mess around with electricity unless you're a licensed electrician. Be careful because you can get zapped. That's true with anything. That's not just orbs. That's electricity, that's swimming pools, that's everything. I can't speak for Tom. I don't know what Tom meant by that. But I can tell you that that general word of caution, I think, is appropriate for just about anything out there. If you don't know what you're getting into, just
Just be mindful. There are potentially things that go bump in the night and it's not all necessarily good or bad. It's not all sunflowers like your cup.
Well, anytime you go snorkeling, look, I'm an avid scuba diver. I've been scuba diving my whole life. There's always a remote risk when you go scuba diving in some of these beautiful coral reefs. You know what? There's a risk you're going to come up against a shark. Now, not all sharks are going to do anything, but if you're carrying a bag of fresh fish that you wound up spearing and are now bleeding out of this bag and dead,
I think that's wise advice on just about everything that we do. I live here in Wyoming where a lot of people like to go splunking and adventuring into caves.
But again, you know, you have to have the right equipment. Be careful when you go into a cave, you know, make sure you've got light, make sure you've got, you know, gear that can get you in and out and rope and whatnot. What's going on at skinwalker? Did a tip study that? And I know you don't like to espouse but what do you what do you think is going on there?
Sub question, let me say before I forget it. And then I wanted to know, is there a connection between Bigfoot and UFOs? Because there seems to be a confluence of that at Skinwalker, at least. So I work with colleagues that were focused on the OSAP and the Skinwalker phenomena. What I can say is that they are very convinced, and I think I am too, that there are things that probably go bump in the night that probably need further explanation.
But that was not my portfolio, and I don't want to speak to that because I simply don't know. That was done at a time with the tremendous efforts of Mr. Bigelow and the former director, OSAP director, and a lot of folks from Bigelow Aerospace.
And the data was very compelling. I'll say that. It was absolutely compelling. And I think Mr. Brandon Fugal now and others have recognized the validity of some of that data. But that's all I'm prepared to say about that. As far as Bigfoot, I'm going to share something with you. And I hope this doesn't turn anybody off. It's probably going to turn me on.
I had the great honor and privilege of speaking with some people from the First Nations Saskatchewan, indigenous people of the Lakota and Dakota bands. These are individuals who are fiercely proud, have an incredible heritage, and have nearly 10,000 years of oral tradition in this continent. And they have an incredible connection to the land.
And, uh, I was asked by, by someone there, uh, and I'm not going to say who it was, but a very senior individual who was associated with, with the First Nations people. And he asked me, he said, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever seen Sasquatch? No, sir. So I'm going to ask you one more time. Are you sure you've never seen Sasquatch? I've never seen Sasquatch. And he said, well, that's good.
because from my people's perspective sasquatch is a spirit that protects our women and children and a spirit of the forest and if you see a man see sasquatch it means your heart is impure and i wasn't prepared for that i was like holy smokes sure glad i haven't seen sasquatch interesting but yeah that was there there was their take uh very very interesting among us have pure hearts
Well, that's a whole other question, right? I don't think any of us really do have pure hearts. But the fact that they see it that way, I found very, very interesting. It's a very unique perspective. And I think if anybody has a right to have a narrative on Sasquatch, it's certainly Indigenous people. So I found that, again, I can't tell you whether or not that's true. I can just tell you what was told to me.
You know, there you have it. As for skinwalker in general, you just think your statement is there is something that's going bump in the night or you think there is? Nothing more can be said about that. I'm hugely interested in skinwalker. You know, current at some point. More is to be revealed. Yeah, you know, it's I don't want to go down any rabbit holes prematurely. You know, this this is a very
This is a very complex universe we live in, and it's a system. We're learning more and more about the reality of life and the transition of what birth means and the transition of what death means and human consciousness and human spirit.
And suffice it to say, we probably really don't have a very good handle right now on understanding what lies beyond our five senses. They've said this before, we have five fundamental senses for which we judge our environment. And if you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it or feel whatever, it doesn't exist. And yet the reality is 99.9% of the universe
lies well beyond our ability to sense these things. We have Wi-Fi signals coursing through your body every moment of every day. We have cosmic radiation coming from the cosmos. We've got neutrinos that are flooding your body from the sun. We've got cellular signals and radar signatures that are coming from the local airport. And all these are real. And I tell people, if you want to know the reality of the universe, look at a night sky one night and look how pretty it is. Now take a radio telescope and look at that same night sky. Look at it through infrared. Look at it through ultraviolet. And you're going to see things you've never seen before.
And so by definition, 99% of our noble universe, we can't even perceive. And then when you look at the scale of the universe, I've said this before, if you look at, you know, I was corrected recently that the visible galaxy, the visible known universe is about 90 some
Billion light-years across even though it's only been around 13.7 billion light-years we think that the actual the seeable universe right now around us is about 97 billion light-years and as big as that is in terms of us being this little tiny minute thing stuck in the middle of it there is equally that amount of space relative space inside every one of us if you look at an atom which is one times 10 to the minus 26 inside the whole
compared that to the human body, we have that same amount of space inside every one of us. There's a whole universe inside of us. So the scale in which we live, unless something is 50 feet in front of our face, we'll never be able to interact with anything that is an order of magnitude above us or below us. We can't even see the cells in our bodies without a microscope. So
So there are these realities all around us that exist and that we are part of, and yet we cannot interact with. And by that definition, 99.9% of the universe falls outside of the realm of our perception. So who's to say that all of reality needs to fit neatly within the very narrow spectrum of the electro-optical frequency that we call visible light when we know that that's not true? Same thing with acoustics, same thing with electromagnetics, same thing with everything.
I think it's foolhardy for science to presume that everything can be explained through the fundamental five senses in the scale in which we live because we know that's not true. Look at dark energy and dark matter. Most of the universe can't even be seen. Even the fundamental forces. Who knows if there's more? Right. Strong force, weak force, electromagnetism. I think we need to remember if you are truly a scientist, we must remain open to the fact that
That we are judging our environment through a very, very narrow lens. Uh, it's like watching a sitting up on the bleachers, watching a football game at the very, very highest part of a bleachers and watching the whole game through a soda straw. You're going to miss most of it. So that would be my, that'd be my, uh, my two cents. Manny Ortez asks,
Lou once said on a podcast that someone from the Pentagon told them that they knew that these that this phenomenon are demons. Although Lou didn't seem to believe it, I would love for Lou to expand on that. Well, Kurt, let me ask you this. You know what? What is a demon? Right? I think most people would submit to you that a demon is some sort of supernatural being that is based in some sort of religious doctrine.
and is usually malevolent to some degree. But let's look at this from a scientific perspective. All things, by definition, are supernatural until they're explained, until they're normal. This cellular telephone I'm speaking to you on and the Wi-Fi signals 100 years ago would be completely supernatural. And yet in some parts of the world, actually, if I show a picture of somebody, then that's still supernatural. They think the soul is locked in the photograph.
Everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. Everything is supernatural until it becomes natural. And that is the definition of it. It just means beyond our understanding of what's before us. I can't tell anybody with a straight face that something is or is not demonic, because it really depends on what is your definition of a demon.
And at the end of the day, you know, I've seen enough demons in my life, combat and warfare to know that, you know, there really is true evil in this world. A lot of it is manmade, but, um, you know, I, uh, I can't, I can't discount that. I don't personally believe that myself, but you know, I'm a big firm believer of know thy enemy. If it turns out that these things are demonic, at least we know, you know, I'd rather know than, than to guess.
You know, do I subscribe to that line of thinking that these are demons? No, not particularly. What about angels? Great question. It's exactly the same thing. Angels and demons, you know, supernatural beings that we can't explain, that seem to fall outside the realm of what we consider being normal human behavior and normal human capabilities.
Let's pre-suppose in a certain worldview that there's a deity that created the universe with intent and one of the first creatures they created were powerful beings that have divine powers. Some of those are angels, some of those are demons and then humans were created or let's say the Big Bang was set off and then humans were created via the process of evolution.
Do you see evidence or do you have friends within ATIP who believe that those are demons in that sense or angels in that sense even? I didn't see that in ATIP, but I did see it in DoD leadership. You know, I certainly am not going to confront someone's spiritual beliefs about something.
The word angel comes from the word anhelios, of light, of fire. Think of helios, the sun, right? These are terms that have been given to explain supernatural beings and occurrences during our existence. I am, for one, despite being a scientific man, I am a very much spiritual
I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, but I don't think that the topic of UAPs or even potentially extraterrestrials is necessarily against the idea of organized religion. When I went to Rome not too long ago, a year and a half ago maybe, and spoke to some very senior academics in the Vatican, they told me that in the 1600s, had you told people there was no such thing as aliens,
That would be considered heresy because there is no limit to the dominion of God or the notion of God. And it's only been in relative recent history that we have put these limitations on what God can and can't do. There can't be aliens because we have to be the most divine representation of God.
So I find that topic fascinating, especially as it relates to theology and philosophy, and even sociology, our reaction to it as a species. But I did not come into contact with that. And if it was an atip, it was kept hidden from us. No one talked about that. No one seemed to have any type of religious subversion looking into this topic.
As to the connection between psychedelics and aliens or psychedelics and UAPs, you're unaware of any credible, verifiable, falsifiable data? Well, look, I mean, now we're getting into the world of consciousness, you know, and I would submit to you is not everything we do a result of a conscious process occurring in our brain. You know, by very definition, everything I do in life as a result of some sort of willful intent,
Based upon a consciousness process occurring in my brain, just like you and everybody else. So, um, you know, we realized that, that human consciousness is, is, is an area that we're just now beginning to explore and, and we understand even less. Is it possible that human consciousness is part of a universal consciousness and that we can tap into this is it's not, it's not human consciousness is not only for humans possibly. I mean,
There's people out there who have pet cats and dogs on one of them where you have a connection with your pet, not because it's just a cat or a dog, but because there's something deeper that you are connecting with, something far more intimate, something far more sacred than just a furry little bag of skin and hairballs. And by the way, that life form recognizes you as well as a sentient being. There's this appreciation that, hey,
We're on the same wavelength. I may not look like you, I may not act like you or talk like you, but we're kind of the same thing. We're both conscious sentient beings and we recognize that in each other. And they also may explain human interactions as well. So consciousness may not be something that is only owned and defined by the human species.
Is it possible there's other things that we can communicate with dolphins, cats and dogs and birds and gorillas? Maybe human consciousness isn't quite so, maybe it's not so special. Maybe it's indelible. Maybe it's something that's part of all of nature. And when I say all of nature, even beyond this planet perhaps.
Okay, now I'm curious about the reason for secrecy behind this whole UAP phenomenon. And I'm curious, do you believe that it's profit driven primarily, or that it's so profit driven by the private sector, or profit driven by the governmental sector, or that it's altruistically motivated, like Tom DeLong may espouse or Tom DeLong believes occurred? I'm for lack of transparency. Yeah, I'm a little more more practical and and probably a little bit more less optimistic.
for our species on this particular question. What if there was knowledge that was so volatile, so earth shattering, that the mere knowledge of that getting out could predicate an action that could potentially threaten the entire species? Now, what do I mean by that? For just a moment,
Take off the scientific hat. Take off your humanitarian hat. Take off your philanthropic hat and put on a hat of national security. We just talked about the fact that there's no indication that these things have been here to help us. There's really only three possibilities. They're benign, or if you will, benevolent.
or two, they are malevolent, they're here to hurt us, or three, they're just here to observe us and they're capable of doing both good and bad like us. Well, if you were to put on your national security hat for a second, let's say you're a general from the 1950s or 60s and your job is to protect America and all things good and great and the height of the Cold War and you've got the Soviet bear across there and things are pretty tough, right? And nuclear proliferation is a real thing. Now,
You have information that there is something here that is can outperform anything you have and really anything you have is is is rather ineffective from a national security perspective and there's a thing out there and it doesn't show that it's being benevolent so it's only one or two other options either malevolent or it's like us and we see this very careful
ISR surveillance of our nuclear equities. It's interested in nuclear equities. Well, some may look at that as what we call preparation for the battlefield. Okay. And let's just say hypothetically, there's a 10% chance USS, a 10% chance that these things are bad or one day they're going to come here and force and they're just, they're, they're, they're looking at us, right? Remember you're putting on your national security hat to forget about everything else for a moment. Your job is to be paranoid. And there's a small remote chance that these things are not good.
And maybe there is a plan for these things at some point to come in force in 50 years from now. And if the mere fact you have this conversation with the American people, what's going to happen? Well, the American people are going to start getting prepared. Well, you know, I can tell you in real life combat situations, when we send in long range surveillance, nurse teams, you know, behind enemy lines, the moment the enemy finds out that we know,
that they know we're there, the element of surprise is over. And so ultimately, hypothetically, imagine a scenario where maybe we had 50 years to prepare for something, but now that the cat's out of the bag,
That existential action will happen tomorrow. And by the way, we're not ready for it. We're not prepared for it. We don't have a countermeasure. We don't have a capability to counter this. And so from a very real perspective, a national security perspective, the mere fact that you are acknowledging the existence of something may predicate an action or an act that you're not prepared to have right now. And so I encourage you and your listeners to just for a moment,
I'm not asking you to be a national security person, but I'm asking you to suspend your personal beliefs right now for just a moment and put yourself in somebody else's shoes who does feel that way, right? Now what do you do? If the mere fact of talking about this could potentially cause a reaction that you're not ready for as a country, as a civilization,
Right? Maybe that's the reason why you decide to only brief certain presidents who have a background in intelligence. Maybe they were former directors of CIA, but the other presidents who are career politicians will be, you know, they're here today, gone in four years. Maybe you can't even risk telling them. And so maybe the reason why this has been kept secret so long is actually in a weird sense, some sort of sense of patriotism by people. And, and, you know, maybe, maybe that's how they justify it. And I'll leave that at that as a, as a, you know, just a,
As a counterpoint, forcing people to think maybe a little bit non-traditionally. Now, do I think if that happened to ever be the case, that's a good explanation? No. I still think that we have to be honest with the American people. I've said this before, it's like going to the doctor.
Just because I have cancer, it's bad news. Don't keep that from me. I want to know because maybe there's a chance I can do something about it. But do I understand that mentality? Sure. Nobody wants to give anybody bad news. Now, am I saying that's the case? No, I'm not. It's just you asked me one of the reasons why people would want to keep this secret. Well, that's a really damn good reason why people may want to keep this secret because the mere fact of not keeping it secret could cause a reaction that you're not ready for yet.
Somber. I think there would be this,
Big exhale for about a day. And then this turning inward and trying to reflect on what this means to us and our species and ourselves. I think... Sombra, sorry, like a sigh of relief? Sombra meaning serious. Not like Hollywood portrays people partying in the streets and that silliness with that.
I think you would have some people perhaps turning to religion more so. You might have some people turning away from them. I think you're going to have, at that point, the philosophical and theological questions will be raised and people will have some serious soul searching to do, no pun intended. And I don't think that's bad, by the way.
I think a lot of folks that have spent their times in this community being charlatans will have been exposed and they will be probably unemployed and probably have to change their names because the rest of society will look at them in an unfavorable light. I think there are some unsung heroes that will probably come to light and the world will appreciate their contributions to this topic.
I think the scientific and academic communities, no, I can't give those names. I know what I was going to say is names that have been announced before when you say the unsung heroes or new names have been announced before. I think the scientific and academic community is going to have to take a real hard look at itself and see why it repeated the same mistakes it did when Galileo first proposed that the Earth was not the center of the solar system.
Hubris is a big part of that. And then I think, you know, maybe we start the international conversation, say, okay, we realize that there's some things out there that are probably well beyond our petty discrepancies we have with each other. Maybe we really need to start working together on this. Realize that we are really a global family. Doesn't matter where you're from, it doesn't matter what your religion is, your culture, your color, anything else. We are all
We are all brothers and sisters on this tiny little rock or this pale blue dot that's hurtling through space. We may unify us. Well, I would certainly hope so, unless we allow our core nature to interfere and we look at this as opportunities to subjugate each other. I would hope that's not the case.
Vu, thank you so much. Do you have any advice for me as someone investigating this topic somewhat anew? Keep pushing, keep asking the questions and be fearless. That is the true scientific pioneering spirit, the ability to challenge the status quo and be able to do so in a courageous way and in a well-meaning way. The true enemy of science is stagnation.
The last time we spoke, there were two comments that you said that stood out to me. Well, one was the somber, the somber heard around the world in a sense.
You can be as diplomatic as you like. I know that you're a relatively diplomatic person.
Let me start by somber or sobering. Imagine everything you've been taught, whether it's through Sunday school or through regular formal education in school or
What our political leaders have told us, and yes, even maybe our mothers and fathers around the dinner table have told us, or maybe at bedtime, about who we are, right, and our background and our past. What if all of that turned out to be not entirely accurate? In fact, the very history of our species
the meaning what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe. What if all that is now in question? What if it turns out that a lot of the things that we thought were one way aren't? Are we prepared to have that honest question with ourselves? Are we prepared to
to recognize that we're not at the top of the food chain, potentially, that we're not the alpha predator, that we are maybe somewhere in the middle. You know, it's interesting because I was having discussion with a friend not too long ago, a really, really, we call them Greybeards in the government, really, really smart guy. I'm not going to mention his name, but I was talking to him probably a couple months ago,
And this is a guy who was always paid to solve the hard problems for the U.S. government, Cold War. How do we solve that? How do we do these big things? How do we go in and beat the Russians at their own game? So this guy I respect tremendously. And we had a conversation. He said, you know, Lou, mankind's been around for a little while.
And for most of that time, mankind's been around, we've been smack in the middle of the food chain. We've been, you know, we ate a lot of things, a lot of things ate us. And that's just the bottom line. And about 70,000 years ago, something fundamentally changed. Something changed. And our species was instantly catapulted to the very top of our planet as far as predatory animals. And now all of a sudden,
We became the most feared. We were the most lethal and the most successful. In fact, most of the large species that existed on this planet went extinct because of us, believe it or not, because we were eating all of it. There were a couple of species that did very, very well with our ascension, our immediate ascension, and we brought a couple of species with us. The dog is an example.
where the dog species benefited greatly with mankind's ascension as the alpha predator and wanted to be succeeding as well, doing very well off of that. That changed the entire global landscape of our planet almost overnight. Large animals went extinct because of us. What if it turns out that there's another species?
that is even higher on that ladder than we are. Do we need the social institutions that we have today? Will we need governmental and religious organizations that we have today if it turns out that there is something else or someone else
that is technologically more advanced and perhaps from an evolutionary perspective more advanced. Have we been wasting our time all this time or are we doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing? Does it turn out that mankind is in fact just another animal in the zoo?
or because we thought ourselves as a zookeeper before, but maybe we're just another exhibit inside the zoo. What would that mean to us? So when I say sombering and sobering, I mean that there's going to come a point in this conversation where we're going to have to do a lot of reconciling with ourselves, whatever that means, from whatever philosophical background you
you have. This is going to impact every single one of us the same and yet equally and yet differently. And I think that's important. You know, do we find ourselves in a situation where history may have to be rewritten? So that's what I meant. Now, as far as the Charlottesons, I'm not going to give any attention to individual Charlottesons because they already have enough attention. They know exactly who I'm referring to.
These are individuals who have made a cottage industry, a career of taking people's hard-earned money and deceiving them. And not only deceiving them, but having them sign non-disclosure agreements to make sure they don't tell the world that they've been deceived. And preying upon people who, for whatever reason, believe in them.
Uh, people who say my narrative is the only narrative and anybody else who tells you otherwise, um, you know, it is trying to hurt you. Um, I have all the answers. I have the solution. Anybody who says that, I think, um, I think it's a charlatan and, and I think we need to be very, very mindful of that. They're very dangerous. Uh, and they're dangerous for several reasons, because if they're lying to you about that, they're probably lying to you about other things in their life.
their past life and the current life, which may or may not come to light at some point. These are people who, who have taken advantage of people for a very long time. And, you know, you have to be careful. You know, what else are the motivations of some of these charlatans, or potentially could be in their motivation other than financial? Well, look at any religious charlatans, the same thing is a cult is a cult personality, it's somebody who, for whatever reason, thinks it's all about them.
and and they manage the narrative it's it's it goes to the to the basic core of pride and ego in human beings and narcissistic behavior you know real true deep psychological issues some sociopathic to be honest with you is there any gold in that rubble
I'm sorry. Is there any gold in that rubble? As in is all of what they're saying some of these charlatans we don't have to name names. I know I think I think I think there's always there's always fibers of truth in in in a blanket of lies. Because that's that's what holds it together. There are some there are some aspects of truth. The problem is, when you take that truth and you distort it, you know,
There's people in history that were very good at convincing large amounts of people that they have the answer. I don't need to go back into history to say which ones those are, but you have characters like Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate is an example, even Hitler to some degree, where they were very charismatic people
who got people in this web and they didn't realize it until it was too late. I just think when you're creating all these shell organizations and pass-throughs and paying people off to do things for you to deceive other people, I think is problematic. Again, I'm not going to mention names. I think most people are smart enough to see through it.
My concern are those people who are already sucked into it. It becomes a cult and it becomes brainwashing and manipulation. And that's my concern because it gives a terrible name to the effort and making false accusations. I think there's an old saying, and I'll see if I can remember it, that
Ye be careful of the knife he uses to stab at the back of others, for surely that knife will be used against you in the future or at some point. So, you know, anyway, being just, you know, right karma, karma is a bitch. Be careful. You know, Mother Nature has a vote. She's got a way of voice squaring things up at the end. And, you know, that's that's what I've seen anyways. What is it that you tell your family slash children about the phenomenon?
They need to find their own answers. We're all trying to figure this out together. And it's okay to be excited. It's okay to be scared. It's okay to be whatever human emotion you need to ascribe to it. It's okay. I think honesty and truth is
is the best remedy always. That will get us through pretty much anything, even when the news is bad, even when the news is good. I try not to think for anybody. Don't try to think for my kids or my spouse or my friends. The only person I can think for is me. I tell my kids, don't just
Be kind to one another. Be kind to the world as much as you can. Try to give back more than you take. Whether you're talking about UFOs or anything else, that's sound advice. If you want to think about UFOs, well, it depends on how you lead your life as a human being, which is going to take you down the road. Look, there's a lot of people out there.
that want to hijack the narrative. But it's not just because it's a UFO thing. It's because that's the kind of people they are. They will do that with anything and any opportunity that they're given. UFOs is just one of them. But there are people out there that will try to do that and hijack that. And it's a shame. But I can't change those people. I'm not going to. I'm not going to waste my time changing those people. They have to deal with that on their own terms.
That's on them. Look, there's bad people. I face them in Washington. I face them on the battlefield. I face them every day when someone is trying to mug you or carjack you or something like that. There's just bad people out there. Anyways, that's my two cents, maybe three cents.
Let me ask you a further question, if I may, not that I'm interviewing you, but it's actually a question for your audience too, but I can't talk to your whole audience other than addressing you, so I'll address you. We look in terms of everything from a humanistic perspective and we want to make sense from nonsense. It's just kind of in our DNA, right? When we are talking about the topic of UAP,
I think everybody deep down inside has this innate desire for it to quote, make sense, put it in a needle box, and it makes sense to us. The problem is the more we talk about UAPs, the more we exchange ideas, and then the more we begin to formulate our own opinions about UAPs. And so what happens when the topic of UAP, the truth doesn't comport, because we're all doing this,
Right now, subconsciously. Subconsciously, every person does it. We are creating these little boxes that we want to check off regarding this topic of it's from outer space, it's from inner dimension, it's this and they want this and they can do that and they can do it today. And we are building those boxes without even realizing it. So when we ask the questions, we're actually asking the questions in a way
to fill those, to check those boxes that we've already made up psychologically in our brain and our subconscious, right? But we have to avoid doing that. And it's so natural that we don't even realize we're doing it. How do we avoid the temptation to ask really the big question without being tempted to fill in the little boxes? You know, a lot of the questions your wonderful audience has asked,
may not even realize, but they're trying to check those boxes that they've made for themselves in their brain. They've preconceived these little boxes that I must have an answer to this box, because this box then relates to this and this and this and this gives me a bigger overall picture and answer that I'm looking for. But what if this is even far more bizarre than that? That how do we ask a question
to something we don't even know what questions to ask, meaning maybe it's not even in the realm of our ability to really get to the root of this, because we're looking at everything from a human perspective, human motivation, human interests, human desire, fears. What if it's something completely different? In essence, we need to avoid creating these little boxes prematurely in our mind.
Um, which is hard because that's what we do as a species and everything that we do, right? Uh, take dating, for example, when you go on a date with somebody, what's the first thing you do? So do I like them? Are we compatible? Do we like the same things? Do we like to eat the same thing, the same dietary, you know, am I vegan? They're a meat eater, you know, these little boxes that we put in our brain, you know, um, already, but before you even ask the question, we have these, these little voids up you want to fill.
And the question is, how do we avoid that temptation? How do we pull ourselves out of a human paradigm to ask the questions that maybe aren't human questions at all? I don't know. My one word of advice is turn to your children, turn to your loved ones and love them. Invest in your relationship with your loved ones and your friends.
start with that. And people get mad. It's like, well, what the hell does that have to do with with the topic of UAPs and anything else? This has everything to do with it. Because if you don't stop to do that, and realize what's really important in life, then everything else is irrelevant. The reason why I do what I do
is because it's those two minutes of beauty that I've seen the human species capable of. We are capable of such hatred and destruction towards each other, but we are also capable of such kindness and beauty. And that to me is worth saving. That is why I do what I do, because those moments, those few precious moments, all of heaven, all angels sing when a good act is done.
and rejoice. And it's for that that is worth saving the species for. That's what makes us so wonderful. Unfortunately, we are also our own devils, and we do things that are very destructive towards each other and ourselves. And that's just part of the human condition. I think that's probably normal. In fact, maybe that's one of the reasons why we're here, perhaps,
is to learn to rise above it. There are certainly certain religions that feel that way, that we're going to continue coming back over and over again until we finally learn our lesson. Maybe that's the natural order of things. I don't know. But I do think that it's okay to be human, but we need to recognize when we are doing evil towards each other. And we have to be willing to hold each other and ourselves accountable. And that's the life lesson.
Thank you all for coming out to this. I appreciate it. It took an interesting turn and I hope a productive one. I think so. There was a time in about a month ago or so or two months ago when on Twitter, I was realizing that there's plenty of hate and I'm not saying I'm immune from this hate. Like if people saw what occurs in my mind, I think people will be extremely surprised at the egotism and selfishness and so on.
Well, there is there, I wouldn't say competing factions in the UFO content creator community, but there are different beefs. And I thought, you know, it'd be great if we could all why don't we all just put that aside and just have beer, even though I'm drinking tea, but have beer and be on a collective zoom call, just put aside extend the olive branch. So while this conversation may seem like it has nothing to do with UFOs, maybe maybe but maybe it's an it's a more important conversation because it
It deals with what gives birth to the conversations about UFOs. Bert, how can you honestly have a question and a conversation and answers about potentially one of the most existential issues facing our species if we don't even understand ourselves? How do you possibly expect to understand someone or something else or another species
If we don't even understand how we work, they are the same. I'll just share with you now. The reason why I said, look, when you ask you my number one advice, understanding UFOs, go hug your kid and go hug your family, because that's where it starts.
That's where it starts. It doesn't start reading a book. It doesn't start with having a conversation, a podcast. It starts here. It starts here right now, reaching out and understanding who you are as an individual and what you are and what is meaningful in life. That's where that journey begins. It doesn't start out there. It starts in here, right here. That's how you have to make that journey. The very first step to understanding out there is first understanding right here.
and what's here. And this is why I said what I did without going into a lot of detail earlier because this sounds kind of, I know, a little mushy, but I mean it. And Sean will tell you, how many times have we over the years had this conversation? There's no shortcut. You can't just all of a sudden have a shortcut and boom, now I understand the secrets of the universe. You first have to try to understand the secrets of yourself.
that you've been keeping hidden from yourself and others. And only then when you understand that, will you be able to even begin to ask the right questions to understand what lies beyond. They're going to say, oh, I thought you're about science, nuts and bolts and evidence and all this, that and the other. And it's like, but hold on a minute. I can tell you're not even here right now. You're not even present in the conversation. I don't mean you. I mean, you know, the type of person we're talking to. I'm like, bro, you're either lost in the future or the past at every moment.
Either in fear of something that hasn't occurred or in regret of something that happened before, trying to figure out how not to go through that pain again and try to avoid it. You're just on the treadmill and going, I'm not there anymore. And it gives a different perspective and it gives an idea of some of the larger ideas behind UAP, a completely different vantage point. And I think one way to, I know we're getting near the end of our conversation, but we do
Some people ask me, I say this phrase, and people go, what's that mean? And I'm like, it means what the two words mean, put them together, so figure it out. But consensus reality is the reality that we're all sharing. Our language, our monetary systems, our decoration, the shapes of our houses and our cars, those are all consensus reality. We decided those things look like that, and we're going to keep them looking like that, and things are going to look like this, and we're going to talk this way, and we're going to do these things.
That could be flipped upside down tomorrow and the human animal would still survive. It could all be removed and the human animal would develop a new way of communicating and a new consensus reality. And that consensus reality at some point in our past was about animalistic spirits and our connection to nature. And now it's very techno-based and very self-aware and introspective. Everyone's a guru now. Everyone's a technological
Uh, you know, a maniac, they have all the time. That's a lousy word. Everyone is an engineer. They have all of these devices in their hands. They can collect all of this data. Now everyone meditates. A thousand, the world a thousand years ago would not recognize us now. They would think we were all super people and we all sit around still laughing with each other because our kids can't balance a checkbook. And it's, this is a large reality. We, we, we,
Especially in this field, we peel off pieces of it that are way bigger than we think they are. And we say, I'm going to try to slap a binary answer on this right now, right here, and then we can go chill out. It's not that easy. Your life lasts as long as your life does. Your journey lasts as long as your journey does. And that may not be a nuts and bolts answer some people want. But if you don't know who the hell you are, stop asking me who the hell they are.
Thank you both for coming out and for spending so much time with me and the 3,000 other people who are watching. It's an honor, man. I know we went all over the place and I love that we got. Look, when we talked beforehand, I told you whatever it is, we'll get through it. And it's not that we were anticipating conflict, but it was we knew that there had been some, you know, there's some static in the past and
Thanks, man.
Kurt, I agree. Thank you. Always an honor and privilege to be here. Thank you for humility. Thank you for your honesty. We all suffer privately sometimes with these demons. It's called humanity, man. This is the situation we're in.
Let's just recognize and try to help each other out of the ditch, right? Whenever one of us falls into the ditch, they'll throw stones. Try to help the person out. Come on out here. Let me give you a helping hand, you know? And I think that's that's part of the lesson of the journey. And, you know, I know you probably want to spend the last hour talking about UFOs. But in reality, you know, time has probably come for us to have an honest conversation about ourselves, you know, in order to continue that conversation about about UFOs.
Alright, we made it to the end. The links to all three podcasts are in the description. If you have any questions for Lou, leave them in the description as I'm likely going to be speaking with him in person at some point shortly. If you'd like to see this podcast continue, then please consider supporting at patreon.com. There's also a PayPal option for a more direct route, even crypto. We've been having a difficult time monetizing this channel with sponsorship and financially it's been unnerving and extremely stressful to say the least.
Dear friends, as I sit down to write this, I want to express my deepest gratitude. Your support, engagement, and the passion for the Theories of Everything podcast
have been the driving force behind this endeavor. We've built a community that shares a fervor for science and philosophy, and for that, I'm eternally grateful. Truly. Despite our 240,000 subscribers and the vibrant community that we've built, the past 11 months have been challenging. Behind the scenes, our channel has been grappling with financial struggles.
Our content, deeply rooted in science and philosophy, unfortunately falls into a category that doesn't fetch the highest ad revenue on YouTube, to say the least. This isn't just our struggle. Even Sabine Hassenfelder recently mentioned a similar issue. During 2023, I've been working harder than ever, which I didn't think was possible, often at the expense of personal and family time.
The effort that goes into each Toh episode is immense. I pour my heart and soul into researching and studying for each episode to ensure that we deliver the most in-depth and high-quality content, forcing myself to watch myself even, which is extremely cringe-worthy as you can imagine, so that I can improve on each episode. Despite my love for studying for Tohs and the joy I derive from interacting with our guests and community, the financial returns have been far from promising.
This letter is a discussion or disclosure by me on what's been going on behind the scenes at Toe.
Our struggles have been exacerbated by issues with sponsorships, which were once a significant part of our revenue. Despite the promise of good returns, the sponsorships recently turned out to be a financial setback. Unforeseen expenses such as poor deals that we weren't aware of until later, writing scripts, dealing with the sponsor intermediaries, acquiring products for review that were sent across the border, and then paying our dedicated editor have strained our resources.
There were even instances where we unknowingly did sponsored spots for free, believing that we were being paid. That's right, for free. This is unheard of. However, I take full responsibility for these mishaps and I sincerely apologize for any disruption they may have caused to our content. I've had and still have no podcasting mentors nor connections. Zero. Everything's been built from the ground up.
I've learned some hard lessons along the way. There were several times when we interviewed large names and they didn't so much as tweet about Toe. Despite them promoting other podcasters, I would be disingenuous if I were to pretend I'm not a tad bit hurt. But that's just how it goes. Luckily, the depth and breadth of our content have always been a point of pride at Theories of Everything.
In fact, the guests themselves invariably remark, on air and off air, how this is the most thorough, the most in-depth of any conversation with them out there. Wonderfully, even the comment sections seem to echo this sentiment. Like, man oh man, that's fan-tastic. I believe in quality over quantity, at least for Toe, and work to ensure that every single episode is not just informative with meticulous timestamps,
but also thought provoking and engaging. Hearing from you and the community about how TOA has ignited intellectual curiosity, changed lives, inspired you, helped you through your own dark nights, and provided a platform for discussions that might otherwise be out of reach fuels my commitment. It's an honor and a privilege. I too know what it feels like to be lonely in this space of physics, math, AI, consciousness,
without anyone to talk to who doesn't look at you like a nerdy quantum quirkster other than, say, virtually. To keep Toe alive and thriving, we're working on several projects. So, for instance, number one, we're developing an artificial intelligence tool to recover old audio and improve the sound of episodes like the old Chomsky episodes. Number two, there's a lost lecture of Stephen Wolf rums from MindFest that we're recovering the audio from by developing, again, an AI tool. And this tool should prove helpful for future podcasts as well.
We're working on translating our episode into different languages to reach a wider audience. You'll now see there are several accurately captioned languages. Number four, I would like to do more in-person interviews. Number five, I would like to do compilation episodes on specific topics from several guests. So usually you have one guest speaking on several topics. What about if we just said, hey, does quantum mechanics give rise to consciousness? Yes or no? And then we have every guest on that subject.
Or hey, what is the physics of free will? And we have every guest on that subject. Most channels of our size have teams, but Toe doesn't. It's just me and the editor, and we each work more than full time. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the darling angel that is my wife, of course. Without her, there would be no Toe. There may not even be a Kurt. You'll see many other YouTubers interviewing the same people,
and that's because it pays significantly more to go with what works. On toe, I've purposefully chosen not to interview high profile guests that I feel like are featured on the podcast circuit repeatedly. Now, the positive side of interviewing people repeatedly is that it opens you up to massive connections and influence. But on the deleterious side, I feel like it would sacrifice a modicum of character in my likely wrong opinion. Instead, I've opted to bring hidden gems like Michael Levin, who has astounding theories
and studies to the forefront and to delve extensively into them. Therefore, I'm reaching out to you, our loyal subscribers, for support. Your contribution would go a long way in helping us maintain and improve the quality of our content, ensuring the longevity of Toe. If you would like to contribute to Toe, there are two primary ways, both listed in the description. There's number one, Patreon at patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal. There's number two, PayPal at tiny URL.
In fact, PayPal gives more to the creator. Every dollar helps. It's difficult to underestimate how your support keeps Toh, and myself, and my wife going. Both financially, in terms of the emotional support, knowing there are people who will voluntarily donate something that they could have spent
P.S.
If you're ever curious about what future projects there are of Toe, you can always message me with specific questions, me and or my wife. Read every single comment and try to respond when we can. There's also a day in the life of a hectic time at Toe and luckily it's no longer anywhere near as shambolic. Despite the turmoil of the past 11 months, they've simultaneously been the most rapturous of my life. It's a blessing. Thank you dearly.
Man, thank you. Thank you so much. After the posting of that letter, there's been a flurry of support, not only from you, from the audience, but also from other podcasters. Coincidentally enough, Theo Von, a channel with over 2 million subscribers, just talked about this same issue happening to him on his channel with being cheated over sponsored deals and also waiting approximately a year before saying anything publicly.
So yeah, you can keep that money, but you can't get me to shut up, man. You know how many other podcasters wanted to say this shit right now, but can't say it? The way that people are able to cheat and lie and manipulate the system. Fuck, it's just fucking kind of sad, man. And they did it, man, they did it to, I mean, some of these people's podcasts is all they had.
So for anybody that had to take that sucker deal over there, I know that some of you guys have said to me that you wanted to say some of these same things. Notes and the person he's speaking about has nothing to do with Toe. I just want to make that clear. No, we've gone through what's similar. On comments of the over 500, like, man, this post alone has more comments on it than when I asked for questions for Yoshi Bach or for Noam Chomsky.
holy moly thank you thank you thank you so much so now the following comes from an email which was precipitated by the youtube community post that i just shared actually it was by my thank you email to this person hi curt the decision to donate was entirely motivated by gratitude for the great conversations and information your channel has brought me in terms of feedback maybe what i value most about toe is the depth that you're willing to go to for the complex topics it's clear that you genuinely want to understand the nuances of each and attempt to reconcile with similar and competing ideas
I love that you're willing to bring up the competing theories and complimentary views, even get people to foster many sharing ideas like Michael Levin and Yoshi Bach. Two people I'm a huge fan of. That said, sometimes I feel like you put a bit too much pressure on yourself in terms of preparation. I love that intent, but it struck me as a bit excessive.
I'm sure you're aware for the need for balance and probably agonize over it. Just know that I don't expect you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of decades of some person's work just to adequately interview them. I understand how tricky this balance must be though. I'm going to comment on that in one moment, but just here's one more that touched my heart. And this one is by James Mackey. Thank you for all your work. It's meant a great deal to me. In 2015 I was sleeping on sofas, listless and destructive. Now I have my PhD at the London College of Music coming up.
And I'm lecturing this year at Durham College and I'm pleased with who I am today. Much of what I like about myself, I've modelled on the values I see in yourself and your interviewees. Serene, sincere, kind and concerned, I've found a tremendous consolation in discovering the academic community with you over the last five years or so. You've been a role model and introduced me to several many other role models.
The comments that I'm going to start reading at the end of the episodes aren't always just effusive thank you comments to me. They're generally going to be about other podcasts and ideas and theories, but because of the preceding YouTube community posts that I just mentioned, I thought it was apt to talk about this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Also with regard to the pressure and the reason why I study so hard, it's not actually because I want to have the best quote unquote interview.
is because the goal of the Theories of Everything podcast is, in part, in large part, for me to understand every theory. And in order to do so, I study super hard because I'm speaking with the author of a theory and I don't want to waste this opportunity. In other words, the production of a podcast is the side effect of me just trying to understand theories, particularly theories of everything, the largest theories. So that's not something I've made clear and I hope this helps demystify the reason for why am I putting on so much pressure to study for each guest.
It's not just to have a great interview because maybe I could study half as much or even 20% as much. It's because I want to understand the theories.
There's also playlists. So if you want, you can look in the YouTube description. There's several playlists for Toe. You can click on that so you can go through episodes one by one if you like. Every episode on Toe is edited so there's no large spikes in the volume or loud jumps with music so that people can listen as they sleep. Because I know I used to listen to podcasts as I sleep and I would dislike when they would just quote someone and then the levels were obscene and it would wake me and then I couldn't fall back asleep because I'm worried it's not going to happen again.
Thank you so much for all your support. Thank you, thank you.
The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked that like button now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people.
You should also know that there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes, disagree respectfully about theories, and build as a community our own toes. Links to both are in the description. Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well.
Last but not least, you should know that this podcast is on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on every one of the audio platforms. Just type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Often I gain from re-watching lectures and podcasts and I read that in the comments, hey, toll listeners also gain from replaying. So how about instead re-listening on those platforms?
iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whichever podcast catcher you use. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting Patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal and donating with whatever you like. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You get early access to ad free audio episodes there as well. For instance, this episode was released a few days earlier. Every dollar helps far more than you think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough.
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"text": " If you could start over and pursue a different educational path with the hopes of understanding UAPs more fully, what degree would you choose? I would probably start with philosophy. And why is that? Because philosophy is one of the few areas that teaches you how to think and not what to think, right?"
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"text": " Which would be what mix? Can it be both? Or neither? That's something I've been wondering, is there a duality between those two? There's plenty of dualities in math and physics, where you think it's the option between two, but turns out that they're equivalent ways of describing the system. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure it's an either or I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive. I think, you know, I my background was science."
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"text": " It works. It's a perfect no, but it's the best thing that we got right now that we know to test and apply theories. But at the same time, there's something more you said about human consciousness. You can't prove it. There's no mathematical formula, no physical evidence to prove consciousness. And here we are having a conversation. So I don't think"
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"text": " that transcends physicality. We have a body, obviously, and we have a brain, and our brain is inextricably tied for metabolic processes to survive to the body. The heart has to pump blood to get blood to the brain, otherwise the brain dies. And in the same respect, the brain is regulating all the autonomic processes for the body. So breathing, which is automatic, thank God for most of us anyways,"
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"text": " and heartbeat and temperature and whatnot. So the brain is a biological organ that is inextricably tied to the overall vehicle, which is the body, and that's organic as well. But there's probably something more to the human being. There's probably something more that is not necessarily physical."
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"text": " because a computer has a processor, a computer has a body, right? The laptop I'm talking to you on right now, and it's got a processor that's thinking, if you will, for the computer, but it's not a conscious living being, it's not a sentient being. So the question is, what is that extra component, that extra ingredient that makes us human, that makes us living, breathing, not only animal, but truly human, what separates us from everything else on this planet?"
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"text": " actions. In fact, love to some degree actually works against individual survival, and yet a mother's instinct to throw herself in front of a train to save her child is almost reflexive. There's something there that recognizes the value of human life, human dignity. I could be in a car accident and lose use of my arms and my legs, but I'm still Luis Elizondo."
},
{
"end_time": 527.295,
"index": 20,
"start_time": 498.319,
"text": " I could suffer a traumatic brain injury and have a severe TBI and be mentally impaired, but I'm still Lou Elizondo. What makes Lou Elizondo Lou is something a little bit different, something that you can't really put your finger on. And so back to this duality, materialist versus idealist, I'm probably a little bit of both because I believe in science, but I also know that there's limitations to science."
},
{
"end_time": 557.654,
"index": 21,
"start_time": 527.756,
"text": " And there's limitations to human beings, and there's limitations to you and me and everybody else. And that's okay. And that there's aspects to being human that are probably potentially more human than human to use an old cliche. Is there another reason outside of national security that they don't want you to disclose what you may disclose or they're worried you may? Yeah, I mean, what is their worry outside of them?"
},
{
"end_time": 587.432,
"index": 22,
"start_time": 558.387,
"text": " There have been, you know, forbidden truths, we can call them, if you will. There have been forbidden truths in the history of not just our country, but many countries. Truths that could upset a balance, a balance that's been around for a long time. Let me give you a case in point. Let's say there were some people that were doing their job by running a UFO program in the past."
},
{
"end_time": 617.432,
"index": 23,
"start_time": 587.824,
"text": " Uh, but because certain things happened, um, presidents were no longer briefed. People in Congress are no longer briefed who should have been, and now they're running an operation that's, um, uh, considered rogue, but it's still an important mission. Um, turns out, you know, all of a sudden now, let's say hypothetically the cat's out of the bag. What's going to happen to those people when, when the government realizes they were running operations for better or for worse."
},
{
"end_time": 645.384,
"index": 24,
"start_time": 617.995,
"text": " without any oversight, without any legal oversight, right? Who's going to be held accountable for that? The fact that they did not brief legally like they were supposed to. Certain members of Congress and committees and oversight committees and the chain of command, that's potentially criminal action. Let's say, I've said this before, let's say you have two competing companies. You have aerospace company A and aerospace company B."
},
{
"end_time": 673.848,
"index": 25,
"start_time": 645.998,
"text": " And Aerospace Company A, for whatever reason, gets a favor and some sort of really exotic game-changing material is provided to that company to do an analysis. Meanwhile, Company B, who is competing fairly, doesn't get that material. Turns out Company A now starts getting a lot of contracts, defense contracts, and becomes a multi-billion dollar company. While Company B, who never had the advantage of having that material,"
},
{
"end_time": 701.169,
"index": 26,
"start_time": 674.428,
"text": " goes into bankruptcy. Hundreds of people lose their jobs and stockholders lose their investment, keeping in mind that both companies are supposed to be treated fairly and have fair competition when it comes to US government contracts. Now what? Now what happens? Where's the liability? By the way, now these companies are doing good things for the United States, but they got there because they had an unfair advantage."
},
{
"end_time": 728.524,
"index": 27,
"start_time": 701.544,
"text": " competitive advantage, potentially. Again, this is hypothetical, right? Where's the liability there? You're talking to trillions and trillions of dollars worth of liability. And who made those decisions to do that? Who's going to be held culpable for that? The Security Exchange Commission would not be very happy to know that two publicly traded companies that were competing for a contract, one had an unfair advantage."
},
{
"end_time": 752.995,
"index": 28,
"start_time": 729.07,
"text": " You're talking about big, big money interests. You're talking about things that are going into that gray world that go beyond just government interests. You're talking about banking. You're talking about some of the biggest names on the planet that have a lot to lose or a lot to gain in hindsight."
},
{
"end_time": 778.968,
"index": 29,
"start_time": 753.49,
"text": " You know, I think we always have to be careful that governments have always had interesting ties to certain interests. And that's true of all governments. It's not just the U.S. That's everybody. And we need to be mindful of that, because you could be putting some people in a very uncomfortable position. And I'm aware of that. And that's why I've been very delicate how I approach this topic. I'm not trying to beat anybody up."
},
{
"end_time": 807.585,
"index": 30,
"start_time": 779.923,
"text": " I'm not trying to expose anybody and say, haha, gotcha, see there. I'm trying to have the conversation in a collaborative, meaningful way where everybody wins. Nobody has to get burned, right? It's not a zero sum game. Hypothetically, do they view it like that? Like there's a potential where everyone can win or do they view it somewhat zero sum? Well, I can't speak for them. I can't tell you what they think. All I can tell you is what I think and my approach. And my approach is to say, look, guys,"
},
{
"end_time": 829.224,
"index": 31,
"start_time": 807.978,
"text": " We're not trying to expose anybody. This is not a witch hunt. Despite what you may see on social media where everybody wants their pound of flesh, that's not going to get us anywhere. We need to be adults about this and we need to have a conversation that if you really want the truth to come out, you better be willing to compromise."
},
{
"end_time": 851.63,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 829.684,
"text": " We're not going to sit there and put people to be eaten by the lions just to satisfy someone's ego or beef that they might have with somebody else. The truth is more important than that. This is not about, see, I told you so, or being vindicated. This is about"
},
{
"end_time": 879.138,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 851.92,
"text": " having a conversation that can affect all of humanity. And we have to be willing to set aside some of that, if you will. And understandably so, you've got lots and lots of decades worth of people covering this up. I know there's a lot of animosity, resentment as a result of that by people saying, you've been lying to us for the longest time, but we got to be willing to put that aside if we really want to move forward, in my opinion."
},
{
"end_time": 906.169,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 879.889,
"text": " You're referring to animosity from the general public or animosity from some of these wolves general public who want their pound of flesh because people have been covering this topic up for too long, knowing that it's real in the line to the American people. Potentially, how long is too long when potentially is it centuries? Is it decades? Well, you know, there's information that goes well, I live here in Wyoming, and I live next to"
},
{
"end_time": 924.019,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 906.544,
"text": " members of the Crow Nation. And if you've ever had a chance to talk and really engage with Indigenous people, first of all, they're very, very private. Two, they have an incredibly rich history. Their oral traditions and oral history"
},
{
"end_time": 952.432,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 924.019,
"text": " doesn't go back a few hundred years. It goes back millennia. In fact, when Europe was facing its dark ages and mankind almost went extinct in the European continent and we were burning books, indigenous people over here were experiencing a golden era. That wasn't the case over here. And the way they look at nature, the way they look at this topic, UAP, is not like we look at it through Western eyes."
},
{
"end_time": 980.026,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 952.892,
"text": " In fact, they don't view it as a threat at all. In fact, they don't view it even as paranormal. They view it as normal, as part of nature, their natural environment, as real as the lakes and the sky and the trees on the mountains are. And it's just accepted as part of the greater universe. And I think there's some beauty there. They're not held hostage by their fears. In fact, they embrace it."
},
{
"end_time": 1003.422,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 980.503,
"text": " And that goes to show that you don't have to view this topic as an either or. It doesn't have to be viewed as a threat or as some sort of saving opportunity for our species. It could just be a natural part of our existence. Again, do I subscribe to that?"
},
{
"end_time": 1031.22,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 1004.411,
"text": " I don't know, but I certainly think it's another way, another perspective that we should consider. If that is the case and they're right, then we've been dealing with this for millennia. I can tell you that having a chance to talk to some people in the Vatican, they describe these flaming Roman shields in the sky that would follow them from battlefield to battlefield, what they call the eclipus, which is the shape of the Roman shield."
},
{
"end_time": 1045.23,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 1032.312,
"text": " You know, that's documented, that's there. In fact, I think if I'm not mistaken, I haven't read it from Jacques Valais, but from my understanding Jacques Valais even wrote a little bit about that. But I've seen that evidence myself. There is"
},
{
"end_time": 1075.52,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 1045.708,
"text": " There is documentation of these strange things in the sky going back a long, long time. So I don't think it's necessarily modern. Maybe our understanding is a little bit more advanced and maybe consider that modern, but I don't think we're dealing with a new phenomenon. I think we may be dealing with a new recognition and perhaps hopefully at some point a new understanding, but I don't think this is a new phenomenon to mankind. I think we've been faced with this phenomenon for quite some time."
},
{
"end_time": 1099.241,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1076.305,
"text": " You mentioned millennium, which is thousands of years, I'm wondering, potentially tens of thousands, potentially millions, or do you think it's cut off around 9,000 or so? Well, that's hard to tell because we only as a species homo sapiens have been around roughly for 100,000 years. And we only really gotten into written language in the last five, 6,000 years, really."
},
{
"end_time": 1123.814,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1099.718,
"text": " and been gone from hunter-gatherers to more of an agrarian type organized society, which is if you take 100,000 years and you compare the last 5,000 years, really only the 5% of our entire time rummaging around on this planet has been in somewhat of a civilized fashion. And then if you look at that to the context of it's been only in the last"
},
{
"end_time": 1151.288,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1124.633,
"text": " You know, a thousand years, two thousand years, we understood, you know, the Archimedes steam engine, right? And really didn't even fully appreciate it until the Industrial Revolution just a couple hundred years ago. So now you're talking at, you know, point two percent of mankind's time on Earth. We've been industrialized, we've been civilized. So how much of our own history do we really know? Well, you know, we can go back five thousand years pretty easily."
},
{
"end_time": 1177.534,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1151.681,
"text": " um 8 000 years things start to get a little murky right and anything much beyond that uh we really have no clue about and the question is have we as a species been aware of this phenomenon much longer well let's look at what we do know um you know the general consensus is that the the the american population let's say american i mean united states i mean north america south america central american population"
},
{
"end_time": 1200.759,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1178.336,
"text": " Really began about 20,000 years ago with during the land bridge when you had a migration coming over the land bridge and settling this part of the planet. But in reality, it turns out now that a lot of scientists believe that there were many migrations and many migrations before that primary migration 20,000 years ago. In fact, there may have been multiple migrations going back, perhaps even 100,000 years ago. So, um,"
},
{
"end_time": 1225.845,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1201.408,
"text": " Is it possible that our society was aware of these things, maybe even interacted with these things in a certain fashion? I'm sure it's possible. Absolutely it's possible. I mean, most of our history we have no idea about, you know, it's like spending an entire day and having amnesia except for the last five minutes before you go to bed, you know? Right. Hell was I? What was I doing? What did I eat? Who did I speak to? What did I say?"
},
{
"end_time": 1235.93,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1226.237,
"text": " What I'm wondering is what you're referencing is written history and I'm curious about archaeological evidence that you're aware of or that potentially exists."
},
{
"end_time": 1260.657,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1236.34,
"text": " Yeah, so let me give you a real-world example, and I'm not going to either refute or defend it. But again, I live here in Wyoming, and there is a legend here called the Little People of the Piore Mountains. And for generations, the indigenous people have reported what appeared to be this fearsome pygmy warrior tribe of humanoid-type creatures that lived in the mountains."
},
{
"end_time": 1290.367,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1261.101,
"text": " And for many, many, many years, it was completely considered myth. Folklore, right. And it turns out that scientists began uncovering artifacts up in the mountains that to some degree reinforced the notion that there was some sort of small hominoid type creature living in the mountains. They found small tools. They found, you know, small bones."
},
{
"end_time": 1317.449,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1291.067,
"text": " that appeared to be coming from some human-like creature. I don't know the details thoroughly. I haven't had a chance to really, really explore it or study it. But that part is true, that people are now beginning to look back and say, well, wait a minute. Is that possible? Because we're starting to find archaeological evidence. So, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1340.93,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1317.858,
"text": " It's interesting here, I can walk up into the Big Horn Mountains and they're pulling out spearheads that are 11,000 years old. Now think about that for a minute, 11,000 years old. If that spearhead could talk, what people did it come from? What were they hunting? What did this place look like? You know, environments change in a blink of an eye. Look at the Sahara Desert in 5,000 years."
},
{
"end_time": 1367.278,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1341.51,
"text": " There was a lot of wildlife living in the Sahara region before it became a desert. And that was in recent human history, by the way. We were inhabiting the planet when that happened. There are drawings on the side of rock walls that illustrate alligators, crocodiles, if you will, and animals that live not just on the savanna, but in the wetlands, all cohabitating there. So this earth is very dynamic."
},
{
"end_time": 1394.906,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1367.585,
"text": " Every time we have a, you know, for us, it seems like a long time, but every time we have an ice age, every roughly 10, 15,000 years, the entire topography of Earth changes, the climate changes, animals change, people change, right? You know, I think it's very possible that there is potentially some sort of archaeological evidence. The question is, would we recognize it if we saw it? And that's another big question we have to ask ourselves."
},
{
"end_time": 1417.449,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1395.52,
"text": " Let me ask you this as a scientist, Kurt. If I said to you, Kurt, you have a task. You can make it out of whatever you want, any material you want. Your goal is to, in a million years, you have to create something now that will last a million years to prove you were here. What would you do? How would you do it?"
},
{
"end_time": 1454.855,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1424.872,
"text": " There are some metamaterials that seem to be harder than diamond, so whatever is our hardest material, it would be made out of that. Also, just so you know, I don't classify myself as a scientist. I'm more of a hobbyist, let's say. So that's what I would do."
},
{
"end_time": 1477.688,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1455.333,
"text": " So you'd find some sort of hard material that would outlast just about anything else on Earth, right? Where would you put it? Orbit is one place. Okay. And hopefully a non-retrograde orbit, right? So geosynchronous and hopefully nothing would perturb it in a million years, chances are something would, but okay, hypothetically in orbit, good. You know, here on Earth,"
},
{
"end_time": 1505.913,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1478.2,
"text": " It's really hard to make anything that lasts more than a few thousand years. You can even make the pyramids and look at them now and say, wow, those things are 5,000 years old, and they don't look so great. And probably in another 5,000 years, they're not going to look good at all. And they might last eventually until a hill of sand in 100,000 years. But that's going to be about it. And that's made out of rock, right? Mount Mushmore, same thing. It's going to be gone in 10,000 years. You won't probably even recognize it'll be too worn."
},
{
"end_time": 1534.667,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1505.913,
"text": " Even mountains in millions of years become deserts, right? Time moves on. Then you have the subduction zones of Earth that eventually, if you wait long enough on the surface of the planet, it all gets recycled anyways. It's all going to get sucked down into the mantle and get spit out the other end as new land. So nothing is indelible on this planet. It's constantly changing. And to create something that can last the sands of time, so to speak,"
},
{
"end_time": 1564.309,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1535.247,
"text": " is a lot harder than one might think. The few examples we have here on Earth that are man-made, you can look to the pyramids, you can look at things like Stonehenge, but that's a blink of an eye. Those were just made a few thousand years ago and they're not going to be around for a whole lot of time. That's just not the way Earth is. So if we're trying to find some sort of"
},
{
"end_time": 1593.643,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1565.776,
"text": " some sort of marker, chances are you're not going to find it buried in the earth unless it only happened maybe the last 5,000 years ago or so, right? Even some of the most, most dramatic examples of terraforming. Let's look at, for example, uh, the meteor impact crater in, in Arizona happened 60,000 years ago. Um, that's already filling in, you know, in, in another hundred thousand years from now, you may not even know anything ever happened."
},
{
"end_time": 1622.415,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1594.087,
"text": " because of the processes of Earth and what this planet does. It's constantly erasing what's on the surface and it's constantly burying what lies beneath deeper and deeper and deeper until eventually, you know, it gets recycled. So, you know, that's a hard question. You know, what would last long enough for us to go back and say, wow, this is an indicator of alien life on this planet 100,000 years ago,"
},
{
"end_time": 1646.015,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1622.892,
"text": " What would you have to do to achieve that, to accomplish that? It's a lot harder than one might think. And then again, would you recognize it? One might say, well, DNA. DNA is a perfect example. If you wanted to do something that was enduring for humanity, that we could look back 100,000 years ago and say, yes, that was absolutely manipulated by an intelligent life form. Well, deoxyribonucleic acid"
},
{
"end_time": 1673.319,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1646.51,
"text": " maybe one way to do it. You can put coding and sequencing in there that will perpetuate over time and time, and yes, you'll have some degradation over generations. But in essence, you could do something that way. And basically, it's a biological marker, right? So we have to be careful when we say we look for evidence, because evidence isn't just necessarily a spearhead found in the Big Horn Mountains from 11,000 years ago. It's not necessarily a pyramid sitting in the middle of a desert."
},
{
"end_time": 1692.841,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1673.985,
"text": " It could be far more sophisticated than that you said put it in orbit, right? Well, what if if we put that rather than orbit we put into the human body? You know, so anyways, that's that's that's so I know it's a very long winded way to answer that question. Yeah, let me ask a quick follow up and then we'll get to super chat questions, audience questions and so on."
},
{
"end_time": 1724.872,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1695.026,
"text": " Are there places that we should be looking for evidence that you feel like we're not? So for example, I mentioned archaeological investigation sites. The reason I brought that up is some people say craft were found. Okay. But you're also saying there may be other markers, maybe possibly biologically, for example, you know, near earth celestial bodies like the moon, where you don't have atmospheric friction, you don't have the you don't have the tectonic processes that we have here on earth that are constantly cycling, you know, you know, someone might want to put something on the moon."
},
{
"end_time": 1753.933,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1725.162,
"text": " If you want to, you know, reminiscent of, what was it, 2001 space, 2001 space Odyssey, right? Where you have these monolithic markers. That's certainly one way to do it. You know, you could put something where you don't have those same processes occurring, where maybe you could, you might be able to extend your time twice as long for leaving some sort of archaeological evidence."
},
{
"end_time": 1762.039,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1754.292,
"text": " The evidence could be right here, could be right in front of us, could be within genetic sequencing. It could even be more obvious than that. It could be the very fact that we're alive and we're on this planet."
},
{
"end_time": 1786.698,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1762.602,
"text": " is an example of some intelligent life somewhere making a decision that life needs to exist on this planet. We need to be open to all of that. We really do. I think we need to cast a very wide net. And this is why we say all options have to be on the table until they're not on the table, because you may be surprised. Something that's super, super intelligent probably isn't going to build a pyramid that's only going to last, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1810.299,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1787.875,
"text": " 20,000 years, they're going to do something that's far more enduring, something that will really be, you know, no kidding, you know, maybe I understand. All right, this question comes from Terry Ruckert. So I gotta ask real quick, Kurt, I don't mean what, what, forgive me, and I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this. What is a super chat? I hear it a lot. What's a super chat?"
},
{
"end_time": 1837.363,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1810.981,
"text": " Thank you so much for supporting this podcast. I appreciated a tremendous amount"
},
{
"end_time": 1861.203,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1838.831,
"text": " It's not easy to do this full time. And this is like, this is a place where I have almost no knowledge in Lu as you could probably tell by the by the sophomoric nature of my questions. Kurt, I don't think anybody does. You're not alone, brother. You think I do you think I have all the answers? Don't you think we'd be where we are today? No, I've got more questions and answers, but that's okay."
},
{
"end_time": 1889.292,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1861.988,
"text": " My fear is when people say they do have all the answers. Those are the people that I don't trust because I know they don't. I've been in this for a long time for the US government and I damn sure don't have all the answers. So don't worry about it. Lou, you mentioned at one point that the present is thick for lack of a better word, cigarette burning as the analogy. And for people who are interested in a more mathematical treatment of that, I spoke to someone named Nicholas Gisson who gave a formalism"
},
{
"end_time": 1918.114,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1889.531,
"text": " to indicate that the present time is thick, that you can't pick out a particular point that as soon as you do, it's almost like honey. So if you're interested in that, I'll put a link in the description. Yeah, no, and we see that very practically in the world of quantum physics and even the expression or the description of an electron. You know, again, for your audience, who's probably my age, remembers in high school, you learn that an electron orbits the nucleus of an atom, but in reality, that's not what's current. We now realize it's"
},
{
"end_time": 1942.756,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1918.422,
"text": " It's called an electron cloud for a reason because of predictability and the fact that the electron can never be isolated in a fixed position. You can't do it. And in fact, some scientists now are speculating that it is because the electron is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It is so small that it may literally be zipping in and out through the very fabric of space-time."
},
{
"end_time": 1973.114,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 1943.37,
"text": " And so it's nonsensical to try to predict the position of an electron because there is no position. It's everywhere and nowhere at the same time around the nucleus of an atom. And, you know, that's some of the observations we're beginning to see now. And let me add to that, that the past and the future are human semantic constructs. It is always now. It always has been now from the universe's perspective."
},
{
"end_time": 1997.363,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 1973.643,
"text": " The past is not something that's sitting next door to us. And another way people think of things, and we think when we say that the stars are very far away, the light took a very long time to travel to us, we're seeing the past. Again, that's a metaphor. We're not seeing the past, we're seeing now. And now is those photons are here hitting your eyes, where at one point they were not."
},
{
"end_time": 2027.295,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 1998.114,
"text": " And so these are arbitrary concepts a lot of times. So we've applied a linear understanding to something that exists on a much deeper way, much deeper spec in a lot of ways. When we talk about going past, going in the future. And I think a lot of what Lou's talking about is that reality is anchored in now and in the present and in the entropic state that we exist in at this moment. And so there's so many variables to that. And we're jumping to motive."
},
{
"end_time": 2057.5,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 2027.619,
"text": " Yeah, I think that's something we just have to keep in mind. Yeah, I'll go even a step further, Kurt, too, with that kind of piggybacking off of what Sean said. You know, the whole notion of here and now is almost nonsensical. Let me give an example. I asked you, Kurt, where are you right now? Let's do a little quick exercise for you and your audience. Where are you right now, Kurt? Let's say Toronto, Canada. Okay, where's Toronto? Where is Toronto?"
},
{
"end_time": 2083.268,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 2057.892,
"text": " I don't know how to answer that. Okay, well, where's where's where's Canada? Where's North America? Yeah, right. Right. And where's where's our solar system? Where's our Milky Way? There is no here here. Okay, we invent here because we have to live in an environment where we are used to boundaries and borders in order for us for things to make sense. But in reality, the big scale of things in the scale of the universe,"
},
{
"end_time": 2105.299,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 2084.343,
"text": " The notion of here and now is really nonsensical because it depends on where I am relative to everything else. Here and now only exist. Go ahead, Sean, sorry. It's like trying to pick out a specific electron from the electron cloud. Everything is moving so dynamically."
},
{
"end_time": 2135.196,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 2105.981,
"text": " at all times that a location is not a concept either. It's only a location in a certain regional area. And you have to have some kind of substrate to measure that against. And we live in a universe that lacks a substrate. There's no snap tube grid that we can say we've, you know, we're now 14 parsecs northeast to, you know, local globular cluster north. What does that mean? You know, how would you navigate to that?"
},
{
"end_time": 2158.234,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 2135.998,
"text": " That's something that really digs into my head. How would we navigate to a point in the past? You have to figure out its location in space-time. We haven't found space-time yet to be a thing to measure in that way. And in fact, you know, if you look at the theory of"
},
{
"end_time": 2180.759,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2158.78,
"text": " Of inflation of the universe during the big bang early parts of the big bang and even now is the expansion of the universe continues to get bigger and faster. You know scientists are now now stating that space itself is space time itself is is being created and that's how you have this this expansion of the universe occurring faster and faster and faster. And that's you know when you when you"
},
{
"end_time": 2209.974,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2181.408,
"text": " When you look at that case in point, let me, let me see if I can, if I can bring this to a little bit easier to understand. Um, the, the universe has been estimated to be almost not quite 14 billion years old, right? And yet when you ask the scientists, how big is our visible universe from end to end, they say it's about 94 billion light years across. Well, how can that be? Because that means the universe has to be expanding faster than the speed of light. Well, not necessarily what's happening."
},
{
"end_time": 2235.589,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2210.367,
"text": " in theory is that actual space-time itself is expanding as well. Think of probably the best way to explain it would be, imagine water seeping up from the bottom of the bathtub and filling up the bathtub. It's filling up from all sorts of little pores, water's coming out everywhere, not just out of the spigot, but everywhere it's starting to fill up the tub. If that is the case, then"
},
{
"end_time": 2250.776,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2236.101,
"text": " Again, the notion back to where we are in the universe is always changing. In fact, when you say to yourself, and it's a little bit scary to do, but you say, I'll be here tomorrow. No, you won't. You will never be here again. And you can't. It's impossible because"
},
{
"end_time": 2275.606,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2251.271,
"text": " The entire universe isn't static, it's moving. And the only way to know where you are is only relative to other people and where they are. And by the way, they're just as lost as we are. So, and I don't mean that just figuratively, I mean that physically, you know, we are all kind of, kind of scattered to the winds together. And the only way we can kind of relate to each other is, oh, you're, you're, you're kind of close to me. So I guess relative, you know, you're, you're six foot and I'm five foot."
},
{
"end_time": 2292.961,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2276.425,
"text": " What's his take on alien abduction experience?"
},
{
"end_time": 2324.36,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2294.377,
"text": " They're interesting, they're fascinating, but they're just that, they're an experience. And with every person who talks about how these things may be here for peaceful purposes and just because they've never attacked us means that they're benevolent. There's just as many people who are terrified and report the opposite experience. I've said this before, for record, look, if you take a member of my family against their will somewhere, that's kidnapping."
},
{
"end_time": 2354.36,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2325.043,
"text": " And God forbid, if you touch him, now that's assault. Both are criminal offenses from my perspective. I don't care what your intent is, bottom line. So if abductions are happening, well, the word of abduction itself is a criminal act, right? It's kidnapping. It's not taking you on a date, it's abduction if that indeed is happening. The problem is it's very hard to quantify and qualify"
},
{
"end_time": 2379.872,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2354.855,
"text": " that aspect of the conversation. Because at the end of the day, you're just relying on eyewitness testimony. There's no gun camera footage. There's no radar data to suggest that. It's just someone's personal experience. And when you do that, you have to consider all sorts of stuff. You're now talking about aspects that involve psychology,"
},
{
"end_time": 2407.483,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2380.555,
"text": " Aspects that involve sociology and aspects that involve philosophy. We all interpret data differently as human beings. Processes occur differently in our brains, biochemically even. So it's very hard to do anything with that data from a military perspective, from a DOD perspective, because"
},
{
"end_time": 2437.432,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2407.978,
"text": " You know, eyewitness testimony is one thing, and even that's tricky sometimes. But when you start talking about experiences, physical experiences from people, and they vary so much in some cases, and some cases are similar, there's not a whole lot I can do with that data. So although it's extremely interesting, fascinating, in fact, it was never really a core part of our research in ATIP. Again, because scientifically, it's very hard to quantify and qualify."
},
{
"end_time": 2464.599,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2437.739,
"text": " There's nobody else that can, that can say, yes, I saw this person. There's a few small anecdotal examples here and there where people say, yeah, I saw the person disappear or something like that. But that doesn't help us. But we need, we need more information or more data. You know, I will tell you. No, actually, no, wait. Sorry. Yeah, next time. Yeah, it's interesting. Tom DeLong."
},
{
"end_time": 2488.268,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2465.111,
"text": " I recall was saying one shouldn't do CE5. I'm going to get you to explain what CE5 is. But anyway, one shouldn't do CE5. And when one does it, often orbs are associated with it. And one thinks, oh, that's great, because I'm inducing some contact. And Tom said, be careful, one shouldn't do that lightly. So that to me implies that there's something nefarious or potentially nefarious about these orbs."
},
{
"end_time": 2517.056,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2488.78,
"text": " Well, I mean, look, I'd say the same thing. Don't mess around with electricity unless you're a licensed electrician. Be careful because you can get zapped. That's true with anything. That's not just orbs. That's electricity, that's swimming pools, that's everything. I can't speak for Tom. I don't know what Tom meant by that. But I can tell you that that general word of caution, I think, is appropriate for just about anything out there. If you don't know what you're getting into, just"
},
{
"end_time": 2531.8,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2517.295,
"text": " Just be mindful. There are potentially things that go bump in the night and it's not all necessarily good or bad. It's not all sunflowers like your cup."
},
{
"end_time": 2556.374,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2532.261,
"text": " Well, anytime you go snorkeling, look, I'm an avid scuba diver. I've been scuba diving my whole life. There's always a remote risk when you go scuba diving in some of these beautiful coral reefs. You know what? There's a risk you're going to come up against a shark. Now, not all sharks are going to do anything, but if you're carrying a bag of fresh fish that you wound up spearing and are now bleeding out of this bag and dead,"
},
{
"end_time": 2579.019,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2556.374,
"text": " I think that's wise advice on just about everything that we do. I live here in Wyoming where a lot of people like to go splunking and adventuring into caves."
},
{
"end_time": 2601.084,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2579.667,
"text": " But again, you know, you have to have the right equipment. Be careful when you go into a cave, you know, make sure you've got light, make sure you've got, you know, gear that can get you in and out and rope and whatnot. What's going on at skinwalker? Did a tip study that? And I know you don't like to espouse but what do you what do you think is going on there?"
},
{
"end_time": 2630.964,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2602.5,
"text": " Sub question, let me say before I forget it. And then I wanted to know, is there a connection between Bigfoot and UFOs? Because there seems to be a confluence of that at Skinwalker, at least. So I work with colleagues that were focused on the OSAP and the Skinwalker phenomena. What I can say is that they are very convinced, and I think I am too, that there are things that probably go bump in the night that probably need further explanation."
},
{
"end_time": 2649.019,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2632.039,
"text": " But that was not my portfolio, and I don't want to speak to that because I simply don't know. That was done at a time with the tremendous efforts of Mr. Bigelow and the former director, OSAP director, and a lot of folks from Bigelow Aerospace."
},
{
"end_time": 2674.343,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2649.428,
"text": " And the data was very compelling. I'll say that. It was absolutely compelling. And I think Mr. Brandon Fugal now and others have recognized the validity of some of that data. But that's all I'm prepared to say about that. As far as Bigfoot, I'm going to share something with you. And I hope this doesn't turn anybody off. It's probably going to turn me on."
},
{
"end_time": 2702.21,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2674.667,
"text": " I had the great honor and privilege of speaking with some people from the First Nations Saskatchewan, indigenous people of the Lakota and Dakota bands. These are individuals who are fiercely proud, have an incredible heritage, and have nearly 10,000 years of oral tradition in this continent. And they have an incredible connection to the land."
},
{
"end_time": 2732.159,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2702.534,
"text": " And, uh, I was asked by, by someone there, uh, and I'm not going to say who it was, but a very senior individual who was associated with, with the First Nations people. And he asked me, he said, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever seen Sasquatch? No, sir. So I'm going to ask you one more time. Are you sure you've never seen Sasquatch? I've never seen Sasquatch. And he said, well, that's good."
},
{
"end_time": 2759.428,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2732.517,
"text": " because from my people's perspective sasquatch is a spirit that protects our women and children and a spirit of the forest and if you see a man see sasquatch it means your heart is impure and i wasn't prepared for that i was like holy smokes sure glad i haven't seen sasquatch interesting but yeah that was there there was their take uh very very interesting among us have pure hearts"
},
{
"end_time": 2788.695,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2760.265,
"text": " Well, that's a whole other question, right? I don't think any of us really do have pure hearts. But the fact that they see it that way, I found very, very interesting. It's a very unique perspective. And I think if anybody has a right to have a narrative on Sasquatch, it's certainly Indigenous people. So I found that, again, I can't tell you whether or not that's true. I can just tell you what was told to me."
},
{
"end_time": 2819.019,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2789.565,
"text": " You know, there you have it. As for skinwalker in general, you just think your statement is there is something that's going bump in the night or you think there is? Nothing more can be said about that. I'm hugely interested in skinwalker. You know, current at some point. More is to be revealed. Yeah, you know, it's I don't want to go down any rabbit holes prematurely. You know, this this is a very"
},
{
"end_time": 2842.739,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2819.514,
"text": " This is a very complex universe we live in, and it's a system. We're learning more and more about the reality of life and the transition of what birth means and the transition of what death means and human consciousness and human spirit."
},
{
"end_time": 2867.278,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2843.37,
"text": " And suffice it to say, we probably really don't have a very good handle right now on understanding what lies beyond our five senses. They've said this before, we have five fundamental senses for which we judge our environment. And if you can't touch it, taste it, hear it, smell it or feel whatever, it doesn't exist. And yet the reality is 99.9% of the universe"
},
{
"end_time": 2896.681,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2867.773,
"text": " lies well beyond our ability to sense these things. We have Wi-Fi signals coursing through your body every moment of every day. We have cosmic radiation coming from the cosmos. We've got neutrinos that are flooding your body from the sun. We've got cellular signals and radar signatures that are coming from the local airport. And all these are real. And I tell people, if you want to know the reality of the universe, look at a night sky one night and look how pretty it is. Now take a radio telescope and look at that same night sky. Look at it through infrared. Look at it through ultraviolet. And you're going to see things you've never seen before."
},
{
"end_time": 2914.787,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 2897.244,
"text": " And so by definition, 99% of our noble universe, we can't even perceive. And then when you look at the scale of the universe, I've said this before, if you look at, you know, I was corrected recently that the visible galaxy, the visible known universe is about 90 some"
},
{
"end_time": 2941.698,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 2915.145,
"text": " Billion light-years across even though it's only been around 13.7 billion light-years we think that the actual the seeable universe right now around us is about 97 billion light-years and as big as that is in terms of us being this little tiny minute thing stuck in the middle of it there is equally that amount of space relative space inside every one of us if you look at an atom which is one times 10 to the minus 26 inside the whole"
},
{
"end_time": 2963.797,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 2942.21,
"text": " compared that to the human body, we have that same amount of space inside every one of us. There's a whole universe inside of us. So the scale in which we live, unless something is 50 feet in front of our face, we'll never be able to interact with anything that is an order of magnitude above us or below us. We can't even see the cells in our bodies without a microscope. So"
},
{
"end_time": 2992.807,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 2964.07,
"text": " So there are these realities all around us that exist and that we are part of, and yet we cannot interact with. And by that definition, 99.9% of the universe falls outside of the realm of our perception. So who's to say that all of reality needs to fit neatly within the very narrow spectrum of the electro-optical frequency that we call visible light when we know that that's not true? Same thing with acoustics, same thing with electromagnetics, same thing with everything."
},
{
"end_time": 3021.647,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 2993.524,
"text": " I think it's foolhardy for science to presume that everything can be explained through the fundamental five senses in the scale in which we live because we know that's not true. Look at dark energy and dark matter. Most of the universe can't even be seen. Even the fundamental forces. Who knows if there's more? Right. Strong force, weak force, electromagnetism. I think we need to remember if you are truly a scientist, we must remain open to the fact that"
},
{
"end_time": 3046.032,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 3021.954,
"text": " That we are judging our environment through a very, very narrow lens. Uh, it's like watching a sitting up on the bleachers, watching a football game at the very, very highest part of a bleachers and watching the whole game through a soda straw. You're going to miss most of it. So that would be my, that'd be my, uh, my two cents. Manny Ortez asks,"
},
{
"end_time": 3075.538,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 3046.783,
"text": " Lou once said on a podcast that someone from the Pentagon told them that they knew that these that this phenomenon are demons. Although Lou didn't seem to believe it, I would love for Lou to expand on that. Well, Kurt, let me ask you this. You know what? What is a demon? Right? I think most people would submit to you that a demon is some sort of supernatural being that is based in some sort of religious doctrine."
},
{
"end_time": 3104.343,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 3075.913,
"text": " and is usually malevolent to some degree. But let's look at this from a scientific perspective. All things, by definition, are supernatural until they're explained, until they're normal. This cellular telephone I'm speaking to you on and the Wi-Fi signals 100 years ago would be completely supernatural. And yet in some parts of the world, actually, if I show a picture of somebody, then that's still supernatural. They think the soul is locked in the photograph."
},
{
"end_time": 3130.589,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 3105.009,
"text": " Everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. Everything is supernatural until it becomes natural. And that is the definition of it. It just means beyond our understanding of what's before us. I can't tell anybody with a straight face that something is or is not demonic, because it really depends on what is your definition of a demon."
},
{
"end_time": 3159.974,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 3131.067,
"text": " And at the end of the day, you know, I've seen enough demons in my life, combat and warfare to know that, you know, there really is true evil in this world. A lot of it is manmade, but, um, you know, I, uh, I can't, I can't discount that. I don't personally believe that myself, but you know, I'm a big firm believer of know thy enemy. If it turns out that these things are demonic, at least we know, you know, I'd rather know than, than to guess."
},
{
"end_time": 3187.688,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 3160.452,
"text": " You know, do I subscribe to that line of thinking that these are demons? No, not particularly. What about angels? Great question. It's exactly the same thing. Angels and demons, you know, supernatural beings that we can't explain, that seem to fall outside the realm of what we consider being normal human behavior and normal human capabilities."
},
{
"end_time": 3217.961,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 3188.217,
"text": " Let's pre-suppose in a certain worldview that there's a deity that created the universe with intent and one of the first creatures they created were powerful beings that have divine powers. Some of those are angels, some of those are demons and then humans were created or let's say the Big Bang was set off and then humans were created via the process of evolution."
},
{
"end_time": 3244.65,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 3218.456,
"text": " Do you see evidence or do you have friends within ATIP who believe that those are demons in that sense or angels in that sense even? I didn't see that in ATIP, but I did see it in DoD leadership. You know, I certainly am not going to confront someone's spiritual beliefs about something."
},
{
"end_time": 3274.599,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3245.043,
"text": " The word angel comes from the word anhelios, of light, of fire. Think of helios, the sun, right? These are terms that have been given to explain supernatural beings and occurrences during our existence. I am, for one, despite being a scientific man, I am a very much spiritual"
},
{
"end_time": 3304.343,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3275.23,
"text": " I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, but I don't think that the topic of UAPs or even potentially extraterrestrials is necessarily against the idea of organized religion. When I went to Rome not too long ago, a year and a half ago maybe, and spoke to some very senior academics in the Vatican, they told me that in the 1600s, had you told people there was no such thing as aliens,"
},
{
"end_time": 3325.077,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3304.787,
"text": " That would be considered heresy because there is no limit to the dominion of God or the notion of God. And it's only been in relative recent history that we have put these limitations on what God can and can't do. There can't be aliens because we have to be the most divine representation of God."
},
{
"end_time": 3349.514,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3325.606,
"text": " So I find that topic fascinating, especially as it relates to theology and philosophy, and even sociology, our reaction to it as a species. But I did not come into contact with that. And if it was an atip, it was kept hidden from us. No one talked about that. No one seemed to have any type of religious subversion looking into this topic."
},
{
"end_time": 3378.609,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3350.265,
"text": " As to the connection between psychedelics and aliens or psychedelics and UAPs, you're unaware of any credible, verifiable, falsifiable data? Well, look, I mean, now we're getting into the world of consciousness, you know, and I would submit to you is not everything we do a result of a conscious process occurring in our brain. You know, by very definition, everything I do in life as a result of some sort of willful intent,"
},
{
"end_time": 3406.015,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3379.036,
"text": " Based upon a consciousness process occurring in my brain, just like you and everybody else. So, um, you know, we realized that, that human consciousness is, is, is an area that we're just now beginning to explore and, and we understand even less. Is it possible that human consciousness is part of a universal consciousness and that we can tap into this is it's not, it's not human consciousness is not only for humans possibly. I mean,"
},
{
"end_time": 3434.019,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3406.305,
"text": " There's people out there who have pet cats and dogs on one of them where you have a connection with your pet, not because it's just a cat or a dog, but because there's something deeper that you are connecting with, something far more intimate, something far more sacred than just a furry little bag of skin and hairballs. And by the way, that life form recognizes you as well as a sentient being. There's this appreciation that, hey,"
},
{
"end_time": 3460.384,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3434.48,
"text": " We're on the same wavelength. I may not look like you, I may not act like you or talk like you, but we're kind of the same thing. We're both conscious sentient beings and we recognize that in each other. And they also may explain human interactions as well. So consciousness may not be something that is only owned and defined by the human species."
},
{
"end_time": 3478.507,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3460.947,
"text": " Is it possible there's other things that we can communicate with dolphins, cats and dogs and birds and gorillas? Maybe human consciousness isn't quite so, maybe it's not so special. Maybe it's indelible. Maybe it's something that's part of all of nature. And when I say all of nature, even beyond this planet perhaps."
},
{
"end_time": 3509.377,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3479.753,
"text": " Okay, now I'm curious about the reason for secrecy behind this whole UAP phenomenon. And I'm curious, do you believe that it's profit driven primarily, or that it's so profit driven by the private sector, or profit driven by the governmental sector, or that it's altruistically motivated, like Tom DeLong may espouse or Tom DeLong believes occurred? I'm for lack of transparency. Yeah, I'm a little more more practical and and probably a little bit more less optimistic."
},
{
"end_time": 3537.244,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3509.923,
"text": " for our species on this particular question. What if there was knowledge that was so volatile, so earth shattering, that the mere knowledge of that getting out could predicate an action that could potentially threaten the entire species? Now, what do I mean by that? For just a moment,"
},
{
"end_time": 3563.592,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3537.585,
"text": " Take off the scientific hat. Take off your humanitarian hat. Take off your philanthropic hat and put on a hat of national security. We just talked about the fact that there's no indication that these things have been here to help us. There's really only three possibilities. They're benign, or if you will, benevolent."
},
{
"end_time": 3590.623,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3564.121,
"text": " or two, they are malevolent, they're here to hurt us, or three, they're just here to observe us and they're capable of doing both good and bad like us. Well, if you were to put on your national security hat for a second, let's say you're a general from the 1950s or 60s and your job is to protect America and all things good and great and the height of the Cold War and you've got the Soviet bear across there and things are pretty tough, right? And nuclear proliferation is a real thing. Now,"
},
{
"end_time": 3612.739,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3590.93,
"text": " You have information that there is something here that is can outperform anything you have and really anything you have is is is rather ineffective from a national security perspective and there's a thing out there and it doesn't show that it's being benevolent so it's only one or two other options either malevolent or it's like us and we see this very careful"
},
{
"end_time": 3639.77,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3613.234,
"text": " ISR surveillance of our nuclear equities. It's interested in nuclear equities. Well, some may look at that as what we call preparation for the battlefield. Okay. And let's just say hypothetically, there's a 10% chance USS, a 10% chance that these things are bad or one day they're going to come here and force and they're just, they're, they're, they're looking at us, right? Remember you're putting on your national security hat to forget about everything else for a moment. Your job is to be paranoid. And there's a small remote chance that these things are not good."
},
{
"end_time": 3664.804,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3640.401,
"text": " And maybe there is a plan for these things at some point to come in force in 50 years from now. And if the mere fact you have this conversation with the American people, what's going to happen? Well, the American people are going to start getting prepared. Well, you know, I can tell you in real life combat situations, when we send in long range surveillance, nurse teams, you know, behind enemy lines, the moment the enemy finds out that we know,"
},
{
"end_time": 3677.722,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3665.111,
"text": " that they know we're there, the element of surprise is over. And so ultimately, hypothetically, imagine a scenario where maybe we had 50 years to prepare for something, but now that the cat's out of the bag,"
},
{
"end_time": 3702.108,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3678.097,
"text": " That existential action will happen tomorrow. And by the way, we're not ready for it. We're not prepared for it. We don't have a countermeasure. We don't have a capability to counter this. And so from a very real perspective, a national security perspective, the mere fact that you are acknowledging the existence of something may predicate an action or an act that you're not prepared to have right now. And so I encourage you and your listeners to just for a moment,"
},
{
"end_time": 3720.572,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3702.363,
"text": " I'm not asking you to be a national security person, but I'm asking you to suspend your personal beliefs right now for just a moment and put yourself in somebody else's shoes who does feel that way, right? Now what do you do? If the mere fact of talking about this could potentially cause a reaction that you're not ready for as a country, as a civilization,"
},
{
"end_time": 3750.469,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3721.049,
"text": " Right? Maybe that's the reason why you decide to only brief certain presidents who have a background in intelligence. Maybe they were former directors of CIA, but the other presidents who are career politicians will be, you know, they're here today, gone in four years. Maybe you can't even risk telling them. And so maybe the reason why this has been kept secret so long is actually in a weird sense, some sort of sense of patriotism by people. And, and, you know, maybe, maybe that's how they justify it. And I'll leave that at that as a, as a, you know, just a,"
},
{
"end_time": 3769.343,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3751.101,
"text": " As a counterpoint, forcing people to think maybe a little bit non-traditionally. Now, do I think if that happened to ever be the case, that's a good explanation? No. I still think that we have to be honest with the American people. I've said this before, it's like going to the doctor."
},
{
"end_time": 3796.698,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3770.247,
"text": " Just because I have cancer, it's bad news. Don't keep that from me. I want to know because maybe there's a chance I can do something about it. But do I understand that mentality? Sure. Nobody wants to give anybody bad news. Now, am I saying that's the case? No, I'm not. It's just you asked me one of the reasons why people would want to keep this secret. Well, that's a really damn good reason why people may want to keep this secret because the mere fact of not keeping it secret could cause a reaction that you're not ready for yet."
},
{
"end_time": 3826.544,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3796.971,
"text": " Somber. I think there would be this,"
},
{
"end_time": 3856.817,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3827.483,
"text": " Big exhale for about a day. And then this turning inward and trying to reflect on what this means to us and our species and ourselves. I think... Sombra, sorry, like a sigh of relief? Sombra meaning serious. Not like Hollywood portrays people partying in the streets and that silliness with that."
},
{
"end_time": 3882.312,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3857.244,
"text": " I think you would have some people perhaps turning to religion more so. You might have some people turning away from them. I think you're going to have, at that point, the philosophical and theological questions will be raised and people will have some serious soul searching to do, no pun intended. And I don't think that's bad, by the way."
},
{
"end_time": 3908.37,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3882.773,
"text": " I think a lot of folks that have spent their times in this community being charlatans will have been exposed and they will be probably unemployed and probably have to change their names because the rest of society will look at them in an unfavorable light. I think there are some unsung heroes that will probably come to light and the world will appreciate their contributions to this topic."
},
{
"end_time": 3936.92,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3909.684,
"text": " I think the scientific and academic communities, no, I can't give those names. I know what I was going to say is names that have been announced before when you say the unsung heroes or new names have been announced before. I think the scientific and academic community is going to have to take a real hard look at itself and see why it repeated the same mistakes it did when Galileo first proposed that the Earth was not the center of the solar system."
},
{
"end_time": 3967.09,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3937.449,
"text": " Hubris is a big part of that. And then I think, you know, maybe we start the international conversation, say, okay, we realize that there's some things out there that are probably well beyond our petty discrepancies we have with each other. Maybe we really need to start working together on this. Realize that we are really a global family. Doesn't matter where you're from, it doesn't matter what your religion is, your culture, your color, anything else. We are all"
},
{
"end_time": 3996.203,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 3967.5,
"text": " We are all brothers and sisters on this tiny little rock or this pale blue dot that's hurtling through space. We may unify us. Well, I would certainly hope so, unless we allow our core nature to interfere and we look at this as opportunities to subjugate each other. I would hope that's not the case."
},
{
"end_time": 4024.36,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 3997.671,
"text": " Vu, thank you so much. Do you have any advice for me as someone investigating this topic somewhat anew? Keep pushing, keep asking the questions and be fearless. That is the true scientific pioneering spirit, the ability to challenge the status quo and be able to do so in a courageous way and in a well-meaning way. The true enemy of science is stagnation."
},
{
"end_time": 4048.097,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 4025.213,
"text": " The last time we spoke, there were two comments that you said that stood out to me. Well, one was the somber, the somber heard around the world in a sense."
},
{
"end_time": 4077.961,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 4048.592,
"text": " You can be as diplomatic as you like. I know that you're a relatively diplomatic person."
},
{
"end_time": 4101.715,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 4079.974,
"text": " Let me start by somber or sobering. Imagine everything you've been taught, whether it's through Sunday school or through regular formal education in school or"
},
{
"end_time": 4128.439,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 4102.551,
"text": " What our political leaders have told us, and yes, even maybe our mothers and fathers around the dinner table have told us, or maybe at bedtime, about who we are, right, and our background and our past. What if all of that turned out to be not entirely accurate? In fact, the very history of our species"
},
{
"end_time": 4155.811,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 4129.036,
"text": " the meaning what it means to be a human being and our place in this universe. What if all that is now in question? What if it turns out that a lot of the things that we thought were one way aren't? Are we prepared to have that honest question with ourselves? Are we prepared to"
},
{
"end_time": 4185.572,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 4157.705,
"text": " to recognize that we're not at the top of the food chain, potentially, that we're not the alpha predator, that we are maybe somewhere in the middle. You know, it's interesting because I was having discussion with a friend not too long ago, a really, really, we call them Greybeards in the government, really, really smart guy. I'm not going to mention his name, but I was talking to him probably a couple months ago,"
},
{
"end_time": 4209.206,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 4186.067,
"text": " And this is a guy who was always paid to solve the hard problems for the U.S. government, Cold War. How do we solve that? How do we do these big things? How do we go in and beat the Russians at their own game? So this guy I respect tremendously. And we had a conversation. He said, you know, Lou, mankind's been around for a little while."
},
{
"end_time": 4239.445,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 4209.531,
"text": " And for most of that time, mankind's been around, we've been smack in the middle of the food chain. We've been, you know, we ate a lot of things, a lot of things ate us. And that's just the bottom line. And about 70,000 years ago, something fundamentally changed. Something changed. And our species was instantly catapulted to the very top of our planet as far as predatory animals. And now all of a sudden,"
},
{
"end_time": 4264.701,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 4239.718,
"text": " We became the most feared. We were the most lethal and the most successful. In fact, most of the large species that existed on this planet went extinct because of us, believe it or not, because we were eating all of it. There were a couple of species that did very, very well with our ascension, our immediate ascension, and we brought a couple of species with us. The dog is an example."
},
{
"end_time": 4290.725,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 4265.077,
"text": " where the dog species benefited greatly with mankind's ascension as the alpha predator and wanted to be succeeding as well, doing very well off of that. That changed the entire global landscape of our planet almost overnight. Large animals went extinct because of us. What if it turns out that there's another species?"
},
{
"end_time": 4319.633,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 4291.561,
"text": " that is even higher on that ladder than we are. Do we need the social institutions that we have today? Will we need governmental and religious organizations that we have today if it turns out that there is something else or someone else"
},
{
"end_time": 4345.282,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4320.486,
"text": " that is technologically more advanced and perhaps from an evolutionary perspective more advanced. Have we been wasting our time all this time or are we doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing? Does it turn out that mankind is in fact just another animal in the zoo?"
},
{
"end_time": 4369.855,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4346.288,
"text": " or because we thought ourselves as a zookeeper before, but maybe we're just another exhibit inside the zoo. What would that mean to us? So when I say sombering and sobering, I mean that there's going to come a point in this conversation where we're going to have to do a lot of reconciling with ourselves, whatever that means, from whatever philosophical background you"
},
{
"end_time": 4399.633,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4370.35,
"text": " you have. This is going to impact every single one of us the same and yet equally and yet differently. And I think that's important. You know, do we find ourselves in a situation where history may have to be rewritten? So that's what I meant. Now, as far as the Charlottesons, I'm not going to give any attention to individual Charlottesons because they already have enough attention. They know exactly who I'm referring to."
},
{
"end_time": 4424.258,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4400.776,
"text": " These are individuals who have made a cottage industry, a career of taking people's hard-earned money and deceiving them. And not only deceiving them, but having them sign non-disclosure agreements to make sure they don't tell the world that they've been deceived. And preying upon people who, for whatever reason, believe in them."
},
{
"end_time": 4454.497,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4425.077,
"text": " Uh, people who say my narrative is the only narrative and anybody else who tells you otherwise, um, you know, it is trying to hurt you. Um, I have all the answers. I have the solution. Anybody who says that, I think, um, I think it's a charlatan and, and I think we need to be very, very mindful of that. They're very dangerous. Uh, and they're dangerous for several reasons, because if they're lying to you about that, they're probably lying to you about other things in their life."
},
{
"end_time": 4484.121,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4454.787,
"text": " their past life and the current life, which may or may not come to light at some point. These are people who, who have taken advantage of people for a very long time. And, you know, you have to be careful. You know, what else are the motivations of some of these charlatans, or potentially could be in their motivation other than financial? Well, look at any religious charlatans, the same thing is a cult is a cult personality, it's somebody who, for whatever reason, thinks it's all about them."
},
{
"end_time": 4503.78,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4484.616,
"text": " and and they manage the narrative it's it's it goes to the to the basic core of pride and ego in human beings and narcissistic behavior you know real true deep psychological issues some sociopathic to be honest with you is there any gold in that rubble"
},
{
"end_time": 4531.544,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4504.377,
"text": " I'm sorry. Is there any gold in that rubble? As in is all of what they're saying some of these charlatans we don't have to name names. I know I think I think I think there's always there's always fibers of truth in in in a blanket of lies. Because that's that's what holds it together. There are some there are some aspects of truth. The problem is, when you take that truth and you distort it, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 4557.022,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4532.108,
"text": " There's people in history that were very good at convincing large amounts of people that they have the answer. I don't need to go back into history to say which ones those are, but you have characters like Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate is an example, even Hitler to some degree, where they were very charismatic people"
},
{
"end_time": 4582.671,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4557.619,
"text": " who got people in this web and they didn't realize it until it was too late. I just think when you're creating all these shell organizations and pass-throughs and paying people off to do things for you to deceive other people, I think is problematic. Again, I'm not going to mention names. I think most people are smart enough to see through it."
},
{
"end_time": 4608.797,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4583.046,
"text": " My concern are those people who are already sucked into it. It becomes a cult and it becomes brainwashing and manipulation. And that's my concern because it gives a terrible name to the effort and making false accusations. I think there's an old saying, and I'll see if I can remember it, that"
},
{
"end_time": 4643.968,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4614.121,
"text": " Ye be careful of the knife he uses to stab at the back of others, for surely that knife will be used against you in the future or at some point. So, you know, anyway, being just, you know, right karma, karma is a bitch. Be careful. You know, Mother Nature has a vote. She's got a way of voice squaring things up at the end. And, you know, that's that's what I've seen anyways. What is it that you tell your family slash children about the phenomenon?"
},
{
"end_time": 4669.053,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4645.862,
"text": " They need to find their own answers. We're all trying to figure this out together. And it's okay to be excited. It's okay to be scared. It's okay to be whatever human emotion you need to ascribe to it. It's okay. I think honesty and truth is"
},
{
"end_time": 4694.36,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4669.684,
"text": " is the best remedy always. That will get us through pretty much anything, even when the news is bad, even when the news is good. I try not to think for anybody. Don't try to think for my kids or my spouse or my friends. The only person I can think for is me. I tell my kids, don't just"
},
{
"end_time": 4725.043,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4695.213,
"text": " Be kind to one another. Be kind to the world as much as you can. Try to give back more than you take. Whether you're talking about UFOs or anything else, that's sound advice. If you want to think about UFOs, well, it depends on how you lead your life as a human being, which is going to take you down the road. Look, there's a lot of people out there."
},
{
"end_time": 4754.582,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4725.589,
"text": " that want to hijack the narrative. But it's not just because it's a UFO thing. It's because that's the kind of people they are. They will do that with anything and any opportunity that they're given. UFOs is just one of them. But there are people out there that will try to do that and hijack that. And it's a shame. But I can't change those people. I'm not going to. I'm not going to waste my time changing those people. They have to deal with that on their own terms."
},
{
"end_time": 4776.852,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4756.049,
"text": " That's on them. Look, there's bad people. I face them in Washington. I face them on the battlefield. I face them every day when someone is trying to mug you or carjack you or something like that. There's just bad people out there. Anyways, that's my two cents, maybe three cents."
},
{
"end_time": 4804.104,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4777.5,
"text": " Let me ask you a further question, if I may, not that I'm interviewing you, but it's actually a question for your audience too, but I can't talk to your whole audience other than addressing you, so I'll address you. We look in terms of everything from a humanistic perspective and we want to make sense from nonsense. It's just kind of in our DNA, right? When we are talking about the topic of UAP,"
},
{
"end_time": 4834.326,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4805.691,
"text": " I think everybody deep down inside has this innate desire for it to quote, make sense, put it in a needle box, and it makes sense to us. The problem is the more we talk about UAPs, the more we exchange ideas, and then the more we begin to formulate our own opinions about UAPs. And so what happens when the topic of UAP, the truth doesn't comport, because we're all doing this,"
},
{
"end_time": 4861.476,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4834.667,
"text": " Right now, subconsciously. Subconsciously, every person does it. We are creating these little boxes that we want to check off regarding this topic of it's from outer space, it's from inner dimension, it's this and they want this and they can do that and they can do it today. And we are building those boxes without even realizing it. So when we ask the questions, we're actually asking the questions in a way"
},
{
"end_time": 4888.592,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4861.783,
"text": " to fill those, to check those boxes that we've already made up psychologically in our brain and our subconscious, right? But we have to avoid doing that. And it's so natural that we don't even realize we're doing it. How do we avoid the temptation to ask really the big question without being tempted to fill in the little boxes? You know, a lot of the questions your wonderful audience has asked,"
},
{
"end_time": 4914.292,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4889.428,
"text": " may not even realize, but they're trying to check those boxes that they've made for themselves in their brain. They've preconceived these little boxes that I must have an answer to this box, because this box then relates to this and this and this and this gives me a bigger overall picture and answer that I'm looking for. But what if this is even far more bizarre than that? That how do we ask a question"
},
{
"end_time": 4944.514,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4915.913,
"text": " to something we don't even know what questions to ask, meaning maybe it's not even in the realm of our ability to really get to the root of this, because we're looking at everything from a human perspective, human motivation, human interests, human desire, fears. What if it's something completely different? In essence, we need to avoid creating these little boxes prematurely in our mind."
},
{
"end_time": 4972.21,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4945.009,
"text": " Um, which is hard because that's what we do as a species and everything that we do, right? Uh, take dating, for example, when you go on a date with somebody, what's the first thing you do? So do I like them? Are we compatible? Do we like the same things? Do we like to eat the same thing, the same dietary, you know, am I vegan? They're a meat eater, you know, these little boxes that we put in our brain, you know, um, already, but before you even ask the question, we have these, these little voids up you want to fill."
},
{
"end_time": 5000.23,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4972.688,
"text": " And the question is, how do we avoid that temptation? How do we pull ourselves out of a human paradigm to ask the questions that maybe aren't human questions at all? I don't know. My one word of advice is turn to your children, turn to your loved ones and love them. Invest in your relationship with your loved ones and your friends."
},
{
"end_time": 5024.497,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 5000.674,
"text": " start with that. And people get mad. It's like, well, what the hell does that have to do with with the topic of UAPs and anything else? This has everything to do with it. Because if you don't stop to do that, and realize what's really important in life, then everything else is irrelevant. The reason why I do what I do"
},
{
"end_time": 5049.753,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 5025.179,
"text": " is because it's those two minutes of beauty that I've seen the human species capable of. We are capable of such hatred and destruction towards each other, but we are also capable of such kindness and beauty. And that to me is worth saving. That is why I do what I do, because those moments, those few precious moments, all of heaven, all angels sing when a good act is done."
},
{
"end_time": 5074.735,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 5050.145,
"text": " and rejoice. And it's for that that is worth saving the species for. That's what makes us so wonderful. Unfortunately, we are also our own devils, and we do things that are very destructive towards each other and ourselves. And that's just part of the human condition. I think that's probably normal. In fact, maybe that's one of the reasons why we're here, perhaps,"
},
{
"end_time": 5104.411,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 5075.333,
"text": " is to learn to rise above it. There are certainly certain religions that feel that way, that we're going to continue coming back over and over again until we finally learn our lesson. Maybe that's the natural order of things. I don't know. But I do think that it's okay to be human, but we need to recognize when we are doing evil towards each other. And we have to be willing to hold each other and ourselves accountable. And that's the life lesson."
},
{
"end_time": 5129.497,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 5105.469,
"text": " Thank you all for coming out to this. I appreciate it. It took an interesting turn and I hope a productive one. I think so. There was a time in about a month ago or so or two months ago when on Twitter, I was realizing that there's plenty of hate and I'm not saying I'm immune from this hate. Like if people saw what occurs in my mind, I think people will be extremely surprised at the egotism and selfishness and so on."
},
{
"end_time": 5159.138,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 5131.118,
"text": " Well, there is there, I wouldn't say competing factions in the UFO content creator community, but there are different beefs. And I thought, you know, it'd be great if we could all why don't we all just put that aside and just have beer, even though I'm drinking tea, but have beer and be on a collective zoom call, just put aside extend the olive branch. So while this conversation may seem like it has nothing to do with UFOs, maybe maybe but maybe it's an it's a more important conversation because it"
},
{
"end_time": 5187.363,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 5159.718,
"text": " It deals with what gives birth to the conversations about UFOs. Bert, how can you honestly have a question and a conversation and answers about potentially one of the most existential issues facing our species if we don't even understand ourselves? How do you possibly expect to understand someone or something else or another species"
},
{
"end_time": 5203.404,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 5187.722,
"text": " If we don't even understand how we work, they are the same. I'll just share with you now. The reason why I said, look, when you ask you my number one advice, understanding UFOs, go hug your kid and go hug your family, because that's where it starts."
},
{
"end_time": 5233.183,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 5203.831,
"text": " That's where it starts. It doesn't start reading a book. It doesn't start with having a conversation, a podcast. It starts here. It starts here right now, reaching out and understanding who you are as an individual and what you are and what is meaningful in life. That's where that journey begins. It doesn't start out there. It starts in here, right here. That's how you have to make that journey. The very first step to understanding out there is first understanding right here."
},
{
"end_time": 5257.466,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 5233.712,
"text": " and what's here. And this is why I said what I did without going into a lot of detail earlier because this sounds kind of, I know, a little mushy, but I mean it. And Sean will tell you, how many times have we over the years had this conversation? There's no shortcut. You can't just all of a sudden have a shortcut and boom, now I understand the secrets of the universe. You first have to try to understand the secrets of yourself."
},
{
"end_time": 5285.794,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 5257.654,
"text": " that you've been keeping hidden from yourself and others. And only then when you understand that, will you be able to even begin to ask the right questions to understand what lies beyond. They're going to say, oh, I thought you're about science, nuts and bolts and evidence and all this, that and the other. And it's like, but hold on a minute. I can tell you're not even here right now. You're not even present in the conversation. I don't mean you. I mean, you know, the type of person we're talking to. I'm like, bro, you're either lost in the future or the past at every moment."
},
{
"end_time": 5316.032,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 5286.254,
"text": " Either in fear of something that hasn't occurred or in regret of something that happened before, trying to figure out how not to go through that pain again and try to avoid it. You're just on the treadmill and going, I'm not there anymore. And it gives a different perspective and it gives an idea of some of the larger ideas behind UAP, a completely different vantage point. And I think one way to, I know we're getting near the end of our conversation, but we do"
},
{
"end_time": 5344.275,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 5316.459,
"text": " Some people ask me, I say this phrase, and people go, what's that mean? And I'm like, it means what the two words mean, put them together, so figure it out. But consensus reality is the reality that we're all sharing. Our language, our monetary systems, our decoration, the shapes of our houses and our cars, those are all consensus reality. We decided those things look like that, and we're going to keep them looking like that, and things are going to look like this, and we're going to talk this way, and we're going to do these things."
},
{
"end_time": 5371.237,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 5344.923,
"text": " That could be flipped upside down tomorrow and the human animal would still survive. It could all be removed and the human animal would develop a new way of communicating and a new consensus reality. And that consensus reality at some point in our past was about animalistic spirits and our connection to nature. And now it's very techno-based and very self-aware and introspective. Everyone's a guru now. Everyone's a technological"
},
{
"end_time": 5398.951,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5371.578,
"text": " Uh, you know, a maniac, they have all the time. That's a lousy word. Everyone is an engineer. They have all of these devices in their hands. They can collect all of this data. Now everyone meditates. A thousand, the world a thousand years ago would not recognize us now. They would think we were all super people and we all sit around still laughing with each other because our kids can't balance a checkbook. And it's, this is a large reality. We, we, we,"
},
{
"end_time": 5422.329,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5399.309,
"text": " Especially in this field, we peel off pieces of it that are way bigger than we think they are. And we say, I'm going to try to slap a binary answer on this right now, right here, and then we can go chill out. It's not that easy. Your life lasts as long as your life does. Your journey lasts as long as your journey does. And that may not be a nuts and bolts answer some people want. But if you don't know who the hell you are, stop asking me who the hell they are."
},
{
"end_time": 5448.319,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5426.323,
"text": " Thank you both for coming out and for spending so much time with me and the 3,000 other people who are watching. It's an honor, man. I know we went all over the place and I love that we got. Look, when we talked beforehand, I told you whatever it is, we'll get through it. And it's not that we were anticipating conflict, but it was we knew that there had been some, you know, there's some static in the past and"
},
{
"end_time": 5465.094,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5448.814,
"text": " Thanks, man."
},
{
"end_time": 5487.09,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5465.503,
"text": " Kurt, I agree. Thank you. Always an honor and privilege to be here. Thank you for humility. Thank you for your honesty. We all suffer privately sometimes with these demons. It's called humanity, man. This is the situation we're in."
},
{
"end_time": 5516.937,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5487.5,
"text": " Let's just recognize and try to help each other out of the ditch, right? Whenever one of us falls into the ditch, they'll throw stones. Try to help the person out. Come on out here. Let me give you a helping hand, you know? And I think that's that's part of the lesson of the journey. And, you know, I know you probably want to spend the last hour talking about UFOs. But in reality, you know, time has probably come for us to have an honest conversation about ourselves, you know, in order to continue that conversation about about UFOs."
},
{
"end_time": 5545.435,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5518.2,
"text": " Alright, we made it to the end. The links to all three podcasts are in the description. If you have any questions for Lou, leave them in the description as I'm likely going to be speaking with him in person at some point shortly. If you'd like to see this podcast continue, then please consider supporting at patreon.com. There's also a PayPal option for a more direct route, even crypto. We've been having a difficult time monetizing this channel with sponsorship and financially it's been unnerving and extremely stressful to say the least."
},
{
"end_time": 5569.667,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5545.435,
"text": " Dear friends, as I sit down to write this, I want to express my deepest gratitude. Your support, engagement, and the passion for the Theories of Everything podcast"
},
{
"end_time": 5590.316,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5570.009,
"text": " have been the driving force behind this endeavor. We've built a community that shares a fervor for science and philosophy, and for that, I'm eternally grateful. Truly. Despite our 240,000 subscribers and the vibrant community that we've built, the past 11 months have been challenging. Behind the scenes, our channel has been grappling with financial struggles."
},
{
"end_time": 5611.493,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5590.52,
"text": " Our content, deeply rooted in science and philosophy, unfortunately falls into a category that doesn't fetch the highest ad revenue on YouTube, to say the least. This isn't just our struggle. Even Sabine Hassenfelder recently mentioned a similar issue. During 2023, I've been working harder than ever, which I didn't think was possible, often at the expense of personal and family time."
},
{
"end_time": 5637.637,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5611.493,
"text": " The effort that goes into each Toh episode is immense. I pour my heart and soul into researching and studying for each episode to ensure that we deliver the most in-depth and high-quality content, forcing myself to watch myself even, which is extremely cringe-worthy as you can imagine, so that I can improve on each episode. Despite my love for studying for Tohs and the joy I derive from interacting with our guests and community, the financial returns have been far from promising."
},
{
"end_time": 5643.37,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5638.046,
"text": " This letter is a discussion or disclosure by me on what's been going on behind the scenes at Toe."
},
{
"end_time": 5669.206,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5643.541,
"text": " Our struggles have been exacerbated by issues with sponsorships, which were once a significant part of our revenue. Despite the promise of good returns, the sponsorships recently turned out to be a financial setback. Unforeseen expenses such as poor deals that we weren't aware of until later, writing scripts, dealing with the sponsor intermediaries, acquiring products for review that were sent across the border, and then paying our dedicated editor have strained our resources."
},
{
"end_time": 5694.445,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5669.206,
"text": " There were even instances where we unknowingly did sponsored spots for free, believing that we were being paid. That's right, for free. This is unheard of. However, I take full responsibility for these mishaps and I sincerely apologize for any disruption they may have caused to our content. I've had and still have no podcasting mentors nor connections. Zero. Everything's been built from the ground up."
},
{
"end_time": 5714.445,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5694.889,
"text": " I've learned some hard lessons along the way. There were several times when we interviewed large names and they didn't so much as tweet about Toe. Despite them promoting other podcasters, I would be disingenuous if I were to pretend I'm not a tad bit hurt. But that's just how it goes. Luckily, the depth and breadth of our content have always been a point of pride at Theories of Everything."
},
{
"end_time": 5738.2,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5714.804,
"text": " In fact, the guests themselves invariably remark, on air and off air, how this is the most thorough, the most in-depth of any conversation with them out there. Wonderfully, even the comment sections seem to echo this sentiment. Like, man oh man, that's fan-tastic. I believe in quality over quantity, at least for Toe, and work to ensure that every single episode is not just informative with meticulous timestamps,"
},
{
"end_time": 5763.251,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5738.2,
"text": " but also thought provoking and engaging. Hearing from you and the community about how TOA has ignited intellectual curiosity, changed lives, inspired you, helped you through your own dark nights, and provided a platform for discussions that might otherwise be out of reach fuels my commitment. It's an honor and a privilege. I too know what it feels like to be lonely in this space of physics, math, AI, consciousness,"
},
{
"end_time": 5792.79,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5763.251,
"text": " without anyone to talk to who doesn't look at you like a nerdy quantum quirkster other than, say, virtually. To keep Toe alive and thriving, we're working on several projects. So, for instance, number one, we're developing an artificial intelligence tool to recover old audio and improve the sound of episodes like the old Chomsky episodes. Number two, there's a lost lecture of Stephen Wolf rums from MindFest that we're recovering the audio from by developing, again, an AI tool. And this tool should prove helpful for future podcasts as well."
},
{
"end_time": 5819.07,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5793.609,
"text": " We're working on translating our episode into different languages to reach a wider audience. You'll now see there are several accurately captioned languages. Number four, I would like to do more in-person interviews. Number five, I would like to do compilation episodes on specific topics from several guests. So usually you have one guest speaking on several topics. What about if we just said, hey, does quantum mechanics give rise to consciousness? Yes or no? And then we have every guest on that subject."
},
{
"end_time": 5841.032,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5819.07,
"text": " Or hey, what is the physics of free will? And we have every guest on that subject. Most channels of our size have teams, but Toe doesn't. It's just me and the editor, and we each work more than full time. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the darling angel that is my wife, of course. Without her, there would be no Toe. There may not even be a Kurt. You'll see many other YouTubers interviewing the same people,"
},
{
"end_time": 5869.172,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5841.032,
"text": " and that's because it pays significantly more to go with what works. On toe, I've purposefully chosen not to interview high profile guests that I feel like are featured on the podcast circuit repeatedly. Now, the positive side of interviewing people repeatedly is that it opens you up to massive connections and influence. But on the deleterious side, I feel like it would sacrifice a modicum of character in my likely wrong opinion. Instead, I've opted to bring hidden gems like Michael Levin, who has astounding theories"
},
{
"end_time": 5897.073,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5869.172,
"text": " and studies to the forefront and to delve extensively into them. Therefore, I'm reaching out to you, our loyal subscribers, for support. Your contribution would go a long way in helping us maintain and improve the quality of our content, ensuring the longevity of Toe. If you would like to contribute to Toe, there are two primary ways, both listed in the description. There's number one, Patreon at patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal. There's number two, PayPal at tiny URL."
},
{
"end_time": 5916.8,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5897.073,
"text": " In fact, PayPal gives more to the creator. Every dollar helps. It's difficult to underestimate how your support keeps Toh, and myself, and my wife going. Both financially, in terms of the emotional support, knowing there are people who will voluntarily donate something that they could have spent"
},
{
"end_time": 5940.265,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5916.8,
"text": " P.S."
},
{
"end_time": 5963.336,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5940.418,
"text": " If you're ever curious about what future projects there are of Toe, you can always message me with specific questions, me and or my wife. Read every single comment and try to respond when we can. There's also a day in the life of a hectic time at Toe and luckily it's no longer anywhere near as shambolic. Despite the turmoil of the past 11 months, they've simultaneously been the most rapturous of my life. It's a blessing. Thank you dearly."
},
{
"end_time": 5987.329,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5963.336,
"text": " Man, thank you. Thank you so much. After the posting of that letter, there's been a flurry of support, not only from you, from the audience, but also from other podcasters. Coincidentally enough, Theo Von, a channel with over 2 million subscribers, just talked about this same issue happening to him on his channel with being cheated over sponsored deals and also waiting approximately a year before saying anything publicly."
},
{
"end_time": 6014.172,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5987.329,
"text": " So yeah, you can keep that money, but you can't get me to shut up, man. You know how many other podcasters wanted to say this shit right now, but can't say it? The way that people are able to cheat and lie and manipulate the system. Fuck, it's just fucking kind of sad, man. And they did it, man, they did it to, I mean, some of these people's podcasts is all they had."
},
{
"end_time": 6036.101,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 6014.872,
"text": " So for anybody that had to take that sucker deal over there, I know that some of you guys have said to me that you wanted to say some of these same things. Notes and the person he's speaking about has nothing to do with Toe. I just want to make that clear. No, we've gone through what's similar. On comments of the over 500, like, man, this post alone has more comments on it than when I asked for questions for Yoshi Bach or for Noam Chomsky."
},
{
"end_time": 6063.814,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 6036.527,
"text": " holy moly thank you thank you thank you so much so now the following comes from an email which was precipitated by the youtube community post that i just shared actually it was by my thank you email to this person hi curt the decision to donate was entirely motivated by gratitude for the great conversations and information your channel has brought me in terms of feedback maybe what i value most about toe is the depth that you're willing to go to for the complex topics it's clear that you genuinely want to understand the nuances of each and attempt to reconcile with similar and competing ideas"
},
{
"end_time": 6080.196,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 6063.814,
"text": " I love that you're willing to bring up the competing theories and complimentary views, even get people to foster many sharing ideas like Michael Levin and Yoshi Bach. Two people I'm a huge fan of. That said, sometimes I feel like you put a bit too much pressure on yourself in terms of preparation. I love that intent, but it struck me as a bit excessive."
},
{
"end_time": 6107.449,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 6080.196,
"text": " I'm sure you're aware for the need for balance and probably agonize over it. Just know that I don't expect you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of decades of some person's work just to adequately interview them. I understand how tricky this balance must be though. I'm going to comment on that in one moment, but just here's one more that touched my heart. And this one is by James Mackey. Thank you for all your work. It's meant a great deal to me. In 2015 I was sleeping on sofas, listless and destructive. Now I have my PhD at the London College of Music coming up."
},
{
"end_time": 6128.797,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 6107.449,
"text": " And I'm lecturing this year at Durham College and I'm pleased with who I am today. Much of what I like about myself, I've modelled on the values I see in yourself and your interviewees. Serene, sincere, kind and concerned, I've found a tremendous consolation in discovering the academic community with you over the last five years or so. You've been a role model and introduced me to several many other role models."
},
{
"end_time": 6150.52,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 6128.797,
"text": " The comments that I'm going to start reading at the end of the episodes aren't always just effusive thank you comments to me. They're generally going to be about other podcasts and ideas and theories, but because of the preceding YouTube community posts that I just mentioned, I thought it was apt to talk about this. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Also with regard to the pressure and the reason why I study so hard, it's not actually because I want to have the best quote unquote interview."
},
{
"end_time": 6177.944,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 6150.52,
"text": " is because the goal of the Theories of Everything podcast is, in part, in large part, for me to understand every theory. And in order to do so, I study super hard because I'm speaking with the author of a theory and I don't want to waste this opportunity. In other words, the production of a podcast is the side effect of me just trying to understand theories, particularly theories of everything, the largest theories. So that's not something I've made clear and I hope this helps demystify the reason for why am I putting on so much pressure to study for each guest."
},
{
"end_time": 6185.418,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 6178.114,
"text": " It's not just to have a great interview because maybe I could study half as much or even 20% as much. It's because I want to understand the theories."
},
{
"end_time": 6212.073,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 6185.606,
"text": " There's also playlists. So if you want, you can look in the YouTube description. There's several playlists for Toe. You can click on that so you can go through episodes one by one if you like. Every episode on Toe is edited so there's no large spikes in the volume or loud jumps with music so that people can listen as they sleep. Because I know I used to listen to podcasts as I sleep and I would dislike when they would just quote someone and then the levels were obscene and it would wake me and then I couldn't fall back asleep because I'm worried it's not going to happen again."
},
{
"end_time": 6239.036,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 6215.316,
"text": " Thank you so much for all your support. Thank you, thank you."
},
{
"end_time": 6252.073,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 6239.906,
"text": " The podcast is now concluded. Thank you for watching. If you haven't subscribed or clicked that like button now would be a great time to do so as each subscribe and like helps YouTube push this content to more people."
},
{
"end_time": 6282.159,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 6252.295,
"text": " You should also know that there's a remarkably active Discord and subreddit for theories of everything where people explicate toes, disagree respectfully about theories, and build as a community our own toes. Links to both are in the description. Also, I recently found out that external links count plenty toward the algorithm, which means that when you share on Twitter, on Facebook, on Reddit, etc., it shows YouTube that people are talking about this outside of YouTube, which in turn greatly aids the distribution on YouTube as well."
},
{
"end_time": 6302.927,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 6282.398,
"text": " Last but not least, you should know that this podcast is on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on every one of the audio platforms. Just type in theories of everything and you'll find it. Often I gain from re-watching lectures and podcasts and I read that in the comments, hey, toll listeners also gain from replaying. So how about instead re-listening on those platforms?"
},
{
"end_time": 6332.261,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 6302.927,
"text": " iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whichever podcast catcher you use. If you'd like to support more conversations like this, then do consider visiting Patreon.com slash Kurt Jaimungal and donating with whatever you like. Again, it's support from the sponsors and you that allow me to work on toe full time. You get early access to ad free audio episodes there as well. For instance, this episode was released a few days earlier. Every dollar helps far more than you think. Either way, your viewership is generosity enough."
},
{
"end_time": 6365.162,
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"start_time": 6358.609,
"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll"
},
{
"end_time": 6388.66,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 6369.394,
"text": " Jokes aside, Verizon has the most ways to save on phones and plans where everyone in the family can choose their own plan and save. So bring in your bill to your local Miami Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal."
}
]
}No transcript available.