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Artisan Tony interviews Curt Jaimungal on Time Travel, Free Will, and UFOs
August 23, 2022
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This is an auxiliary episode where Artis and Tony interviewed me for his channel, which is linked in the description. We talk about theoretical physics, time travel, consciousness, free will, and God.
Visit Artis and Tony's YouTube channel by clicking on the link in the description. A written review on whichever platform you're listening to this Theories of Everything episode from also helps significantly. Thank you, and enjoy the supplementary episode where Artis and Tony interviews Kurt Jaimungal.
Hello, Kurt. How are you? I'm great, man. It's good to be here. Thank you, Tony. I'm really excited. Tell me why I'm more excited about this interview than any of my other 57. This is Pi Phi number 57.
157 is one is my favorite number. So oh wow, that's that's spooky No, it's it's interesting actually Yeah, I've been doing a series for quite a while and I just keep kind of adding to it and for some reason I was nervous and excited And I guess I'll kind of explain that a little bit along the way About why but I thought what I'm not doing is let you just kind of talk about the
Well, introduce yourself because I'll probably just butcher it.
for what you want people to know about you. I know you're a filmmaker, documentary maker, you know, I'm not quite sure of your other credential, you know, your other, how you refer to yourself. So a YouTuber, we all know you're a YouTuber, so. Sure. Firstly, I wanted to commend you as you're one of the most prepared people that I've been interviewed by. You have assiduously written notes. I've been interviewed by quite a few people, so hats off to you, man.
You have exemplary note-taking habits. Thank you, I appreciate it. It's something that I think... That's something that somebody like me has to do to be prepared. I aspire to emulate that quality, man. Now, as for who I am, Kurt Jemungle, that's my name. I have a channel called Theories of Everything, which is about physics and consciousness.
Theories of everything is a physics term, which is about what are the ultimate laws of nature. Generally, it's how do you merge quantum mechanics or quantum field theory with general relativity. But then it's more broad and about metaphysics and philosophy, which is why the consciousness has come in. And then there seem to be
There's ostensibly implications for UFOs. And that's one of the reasons why I started to tackle that subject and continue to do so. It's a motif rather than a theme. Oh, yes. And then my background is in mathematical physics, if people are interested, and filmmaking. I think that's an awesome combination, Gary. You've made a really great YouTube channel, and I've enjoyed it over the years.
Thank you. How long have you been? I guess I've only been watching for maybe two years, I think. When did you start your channel? About two years. You're an early adopter, man. My background, and this was kind of leading up to my first question, if you don't mind.
My background obviously I'm a design build contractor, but I've always been Fascinated by you know physics and science and when I was a kid My mother had had this I don't know. She she almost she had these you know this intuition. I guess I got it, but She knew she knew I was going you know
I wanted to be a builder. You know, so she bought me Legos and not Legos, Lincoln logs and pocket trucks. And, and, but I always kept saying, mom, I want to be a scientist. And it's kind of funny by the time, by the time high school rolled around, uh, you know, I entered into this, uh, trade school. I went to high school half a day in this building trade school.
another half of the day and and that's where I kind of I kind of came to a fork in the road at that point in my life and I realized that I was more you know meant to it felt like I was meant to do this instead of that in other words and I and I thought that that matched my intellectual abilities better you know and the reason I bring this up is because I've always been interested in
human intelligence and how different humans compare to each other. And to me, it's almost like, and this is really, I'm sorry, taking so long getting around to the question. It's a good time, man. I'm a little nervous, I'm sorry. I'm more nervous than you. It's like the bear is scared of. I guess what amazes me is that I can't
On one hand, I understand evolution and I understand that some humans can, you know, obviously their brains don't get wired the same through DNA and, you know, that whole evolutionary process. But on the other hand, I was giving the example of my son before we came on the air of how he is gifted. He was, you know, in Mensa at four years old. And then you look at me, how did two different, how does a family produce two people like that?
with such a vast intelligence levels, you know, in the same gen, you know, just one generation apart. What do you think about? I guess what I'm leading up to is the question is, do you think that I would like to think that certain people are given traits, you know,
I don't know. I'm kind of a spiritual guy. I believe that I was given certain talents and gifts, and maybe they were for a reason, a purpose, and I practiced that purpose earlier in life. I don't want to tell you my whole life story. That would be boring for the audience, but I'm just trying to get to this point. What you think about that? Do you think simple evolution is the answer, or do you think that people have purpose that they were created for?
I see what you're saying. I don't see it as being either or. I don't see why it can't be both. Yeah, and I was curious about what you, your early life, as a child, were you influenced by religion in any way, or did you develop any kind of source of spirituality along the way?
Yeah, my parents were and still are Christian. However, that made me a rebel. It made me a rebel against Christianity. So I became an atheist when I was eight or nine or ten or so. So I would say it influenced my insubordination. And I had these these fairly indirect attitudes of disliking the majority of what people are saying. I'd say that I'm a anti-conformist.
Yeah, my mother influenced me, not the opposite, but we came out of East Tennessee, the woods of East Tennessee, but my mother was this jet setting missionary. She would go to Thailand, Korea, she was exposed to
in all of the different religions, and she would bring back, you know, stories and talk about philosophy with me. And that created a little bit of a, you know, it was almost like she was trying to get me to think out of the box a little bit and not be so, because, you know, coming up in the Bible Belt, you're taught one way, one way or the highway.
And so that was a good experience, but what it did do was start making me think what is out there, you know, and then I had this little experience when I was 12 that I thought was a, you know, thought was a UFO. Today, I don't really know. I'm still very objective about it, but that experience
brought me to this point where I really questioned everything. And ever since then, I've had this interest in this topic and people like you, you know, who again, I don't mean people like you. I mean, people, um,
It's almost like humans, and I'm sorry I'm talking too much here. I get nervous and I start talking a lot. Please do. It helps me with the context of the questions. Okay, good. When you're involved with spirituality like that for so long, you can't help but think certain ways. I was taught to believe that the earth was created by the Creator
We were put here for a purpose. And by extension, maybe this planet has a purpose. And it's kind of funny to me that over the years, when I was younger, you couldn't really talk amongst my peers. I actually knew a lot of people who were atheists when I was growing up. So I didn't talk about my
spirituality that much and so but it seems like lately there's a return to it like it's almost like this new and I've been through these phases of where UAPs or UFOs as we used to call them were a thing and then they would subside and then you know I'll be 16 October and
So I've been through several of these phases and people wonder why I'm not as excited about it. It's because, you know, uh, and so where am I going with this question? I'm, I'm trying to say that, um, I wonder what this, it's all kind of ties in because there seems to be a current push for spirituality, you know, the woo, all of this. And it seems like whenever this happens, there's a step away from science.
Maybe I'm finally getting to my question. It seems like a lot of people in the UAP community are, I think, their personal experience. They're not objective enough to not let that affect their thoughts on objectivity and science. Do you see that?
No, but I haven't spoken to, no, I haven't, I don't see that. I understand what you're saying. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. So you're saying that there are some people who are in this UFO community, but that doesn't matter. There's some people who have some experience and now they want to believe. Now you had an experience, quote unquote, an experience when you were younger,
You can doubt that experience now because you have some distance and because you would like to see it objectively and you realize, well, that's just one data point and I was biased and I was a kid and I don't want to fall prey to me imposing an epilogue on something where it just may be some rational or scientific explanation, like a cloud.
So there are other people who are quick to say what I saw was a UFO or quick to say that there exist aliens or other beings. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, or if you ask questions about it, instead of being an objective person, you're a debunker. It seems like now objectivity has been pushed to the side and you're either a believer
or a debunker. There's no middle ground. And I wish we could return to that middle ground where everyone just said, okay, I had an experience. It was my personal experience. It wasn't, it's not everyone's experience. Now let's see, what do we do to move forward? You know, I guess it's the,
the past in me coming out wanting to be a scientist and wanting to be smarter. It's frustrating for me because I always had a hard time with absorbing certain concepts. I absorbed design
I've been doing that for 44 years now, I'm pretty good at it, but still have a hard time absorbing some of the quantum mechanics.
and the math surrounding that. Everyone, everyone does. But firstly, don't beat yourself up because you're in the same shoes as everyone. Secondly, just because someone knows equations, I don't know how to build. I'm in awe of what you do. I'm great with video games. So I have hand-eye coordination there. But I have no hand-eye coordination when it comes to sports or building. I'm not handy. I remember just a couple days ago or a few days ago, I was at a family event and I had to throw some
I don't
Never played sports after that. I forgot my gym clothes, quote unquote, every single time I would come up with some excuse for why I couldn't go to gym. So I have no hand-eye coordination. I'm not skilled at all and I barely know some math. So anyway, you're in common company.
Well, I appreciate that, but I think when it comes to saving the world, my money's on you. Honestly, I guess I'm trying to get to the point to where I was hoping that you could help me inspire people to return to a time when
The scientific method was really appreciated and was really desired when people wanted to convince you of something. It seems like, and this leads me to one of my questions, it's a perfect segue into whether you think we have had disclosure or not.
Because it seems like we're being told, it seems like ufology is the new religion. You know, we're told that we need to believe that, you know, I've always tried to teach my kids to say, I think this, I think this, that. Don't say I believe this or I believe that. Say you think it. And so we're being asked to believe that we've had disclosure. What do you think about that?
I mean, do you think we've had disclosure? Okay. So there are a couple of elements here. So number one was about objectivity. Okay. So firstly, actually it was about whether or not I see the same impetus to belief to believe from people who should have more quote unquote objectivity.
Okay, the number two is whether or not disclosure has occurred. And number three has to do with the more scientific analysis on this topic. So number one and three are tied. So I'd say for number three, I would say that I'm not exactly performing a scientific analysis. What I'm doing is that I'm extremely curious and I'm asking questions. So much so that I'm even questioning whether the scientific method is the only method to truth. And I'm saying truth with the capital T.
because the scientific method has changed across time and what we consider to be literal truth or facts has changed, which means it's approximating something, so perhaps science isn't at its final form, if there is a final form. So I wouldn't say exactly that what I'm doing is trying to bring some dispassionate scientific analysis on the topic of UAPs or UFOs or philosophy or psychology or math or even physics or consciousness.
I'm just curious and I'm asking questions as best I can and I cite the errors that I see in real time to the people who are espousing something to me like a professor. So that's number three. And then for number one, I'm lucky in that, well, maybe not lucky, it doesn't matter. I don't see people who, I don't see the same that you see where people are quick to believe.
But I can imagine that that's there. I hear that that's there, but I don't have any first-hand experience with experiencers and people who are readily believers. Okay, then number two with regard to disclosure. I don't know. I don't know, man. So Tony, like what the heck are they referring to when they say disclosure has occurred? If they mean the initial steps of disclosure have occurred in the sense that the government is now admitting that UAPs aren't from any known worldly government,
then I agree. If they mean that all the pieces are there and it's like a jigsaw and they're announced and confessed, it's just a matter of us consolidating and putting it together, given enough effort and pattern recognition, then that may be the case. I don't see it as the case. I think that's a route for paranoia and spurious claims devoid of falsifiable substantiation. So I don't know. I don't think that's occurred.
I need to know who said disclosure has occurred and in what context did they say that? Well, Luis Elizondo is the main, I was going to say culprit, but I like him. I like Luis Elizondo. You know, I've interviewed him twice and I was kind of thinking the second time I might get more out of them. Because I thought, OK, we're going to get, you know, maybe we will get. I know he can't disclose classified information, but see, that's my point. If there is classified information,
If there still is classified information remaining, then we haven't had disclosure. And I know we can't unclassify. I guess what I'm asking for is if there's some sort of phased plan to give us breadcrumbs or take baby steps, let's just be honest about that. I have a feeling that whatever this phenomenon is, it will disclose itself to us quicker than the government will.
I totally agree. Whether voluntarily or not. No, I agree. That's kind of my point in that it seems like the government wants us to think that we've had disclosure, but we haven't. And they're just putting us off till the next phase or till the next happening or what I mean, like when I was a kid, there was a big
Did you ever watch the show UFO? It was a UK TV series, a show, and it was pretty old. I think it was in the 60s, and it came to the United States in reruns. So when I was growing up... I haven't seen that, no. Yeah, you look it up sometimes. It was a really cool show. Again, it was from the UK. It was a British show. It was like a documentary-type show, like Ghost Hunters, or was it fiction?
It was entertainment. It was like X-Files. Yeah. It was the, there was a, there was a group of people who were responsible for protecting earth against. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, and so every now and then the UFO would enter the picture and they would, you know, either deal with it in some way. But my point is, is that you see a lot of the younger people that are in you falling to you right now, they'll have that history.
that some of us older people, I don't feel old, but I feel old talking about it, that we've been through these phases of, you know, we've had congressional hearings back in the 60s and 70s, shows. I was just coincidentally, I was watching a video the other night where one of the famous
talk show host was talking to Arthur C. Clark about UFOs, right? And, and, and, uh, Oh, what's his name? Anyway, the guy who ran the show said, what do you think about this current, um, uh, you know, atmosphere? Like, like there was some, again, again, a,
I feel like we're just going through another one of those. Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have that impression
You're only like 20, how old are you, 20 some odd years old? No, I'm 33. Okay, you look younger then. So you probably don't remember those times, you know, where. So anyway, I just, I was curious to see what you thought. And again, I like Louis Elizondo. I invited him to come go shooting at our rifle club. You know, I like the guy.
But I do think there's a strange effort afoot to, you know,
I understand what you're saying. I don't know because I'm not seasoned enough to see the cycles or to recognize that there's a repetition of disclosure from the government or the promise of disclosure, so I don't know. Also, I'm extremely green when it comes to this field. I'm just someone who's extremely interested in math and physics, started to become interested in consciousness, then started to become interested in UFOs, but still my domain is physics and math.
So I don't see what you see because I'm not as close to it as you are. Well, and honestly, I'm not that close to it. I think that's how hopefully being able to remain objective about it. I'm not a believer or a skeptic, you know. Yeah, good. But I just. But anyway, I just wanted to kind of get your take on that again.
I love Lou, I love the guy. If I had to jump in a foxhole, it would be with him. Yeah, that's for sure. You know, it doesn't have to do, but I'm sure there's this big consortium of, maybe that's sort of conspiratorial, but an effort going on, phasing the disclosure or whatever. Maybe that's the message there. There could be, I don't know, conspiracies have occurred and likely are occurring, whether or not there's one here.
I didn't really mean to say the word conspiracy in the same sentence. It doesn't matter. I don't hold a negative view toward religion. I see it as extremely positive.
To have an open mind and to be doubtful, doubtful, doubtful, that's an extremely dangerous mindset. And I know because, well, I've been to certain places mentally and it's extreme. People who say, oh, you should doubt, you should doubt. You have no idea. You have no idea how you're so lucky. It's like you're encased in armor and someone's attacking you and you say, oh, look how protected I am without recognizing that it's because you're shielded by
Well, regardless, the point is that I don't say conspiracies hold no water, and I also don't think religion should be as disdained as it is. There's a huge, huge benefit to saying, here's what is the case, and I believe there's a man I pray for belief. I think people who don't, they haven't taken their own thoughts seriously. I think people who say, oh, the multiverse and simulation hypothesis and
And whatever else they're writing with their pens on paper, they're treating it so clinically and they don't believe it. They don't take their own ideas seriously. I think if they did they would be horrified, horrified, horrified. Anyway, the point is that conspiracies occur. It's dangerous also to think that whatever is occurring is a conspiracy because that's
Hopefully that's self-evident. It also seems to be clear that conspiracies did occur, and it would be unwise to think that they're not occurring. So I don't care if the word conspiracy is said. That's what I'm getting at. I know that you want to be a bit more careful with your words, but you're not saying that there is a conspiracy. You're conjecturing, and that's fine.
Well, and leading up to my next question, and you kind of hit on it earlier about consciousness. It was actually one of our viewer questions. And I know this, we can talk two hours on this, so I'm going to try to let you just speak on this. I might just say one thing about consciousness. It's always felt to me that consciousness was a combination of physical and
I'm a very physical person. I believe that's why I love the field that you're in, physics, because I believe that there's not a lot of woo here and that this planet was created for us to be sort of like a sandbox and that maybe consciousness is our only path to the Creator. So I have this weird thing about consciousness, so I could talk about it all day.
But Elena Campbell had, that was her question. Basically just what do you think it is? What do you think about it? So Elena, is that like an audience member or is that your wife or? No, she was, she's sort of, she's on, basically I met her at the UAP Society Discord.
And then she was helping us with a little think tank, a little project team that I had going. And so I know her as a result of the phenomena, really. Okay, so if Elena's question is, what do I think of consciousness? Elena, I apologize. That's such a broad question. I don't know what to make of it. It's akin to, what do you make of religion or what do you make of movies?
I don't know which movie and what part of it and what aspect. So I also don't think, Elena, that anyone knows the answer to that. There are different theories as to what consciousness is on the physical side. There are neuro correlates as to whether or not those are causal. That's another issue.
So that is, and then there are different, there's global neuronal workspace, there's integrated information theory, there's different computational approaches and whether or not it's a feedback process that's substrate independent and so on, but this is just jargon for people who are unfamiliar. So I don't know, all I would say is that I'm studying it and I don't know
It's unclear, and then I think Michael Levin said that in university, one has consciousness studies, it's a growing field, it's burgeoning, but it's there, but it's not consciousness studies, because true consciousness studies is a first-person activity, it's not third. It may be like, if I can give an analogy, a physics analogy, there's a, imagine you have a globe, turns out that you cannot map a globe with one chart. So that is, if you were to take a map of the globe, it's going to miss at least one point of the globe.
it has to. So that's a that's a theorem in differential geometry that says that if you have a sphere you cannot cover it with one chart. That's why we get the skewed content sizes. I know what you're saying. You need two charts. You need at least two charts. Okay, then those charts overlap so there's compatibility on those. Then there's something called a compatibility condition where those two charts overlap. So maybe
The physical and the mental world, if we can even split it into those domains, are akin to that. That they're mapping the real world, which is the sphere,
one is the physical and then the other is a mental and the physical cannot fully encompass the mental and vice versa but there is a compatibility condition which is why we can see these neural correlates which is why there's almost certainly a relationship between the brain and consciousness but yet we can't grasp it completely nor can we from our own intuition derive all of the physical laws yeah and that's and that's why this is why i'm careful to say
whether I believe something or think something. Cause I can believe in this. I believe that, um, basically what you just said, and that, that, that, that is really the only, that coupling is our only connection to the creator. Everything else is a sand, you know, the earth is a sandbox, you know,
Now, people will say, and this is where I differ with people who think it's a simulation, which I think is a silly thing, but I try to listen, you know, try to be sympathetic, empathetic. And this leads up to our next question about free will. And, you know, I've always thought that we've had free will to roam
in the sandbox and people may some people may think that's not a big enough place to have free will like the planet was created for us we you know we were created by the creator and and given the free will right and some people would just look back at that say oh the earth is a simulation
Maybe the maybe that condition is, you know, I don't call it simulation because I believe in a creator, you know, create the earth and the universe. Right. So, but within that, you know, at one time we had plenty of
Space and we still do right we can fit All humans in Texas or whatever that statistic is we still have lots of places to roam and be free And we have free will on earth and that's good enough for this life You know what? Anyway, I rambled a little bit there. Sorry. What do you think about?
I don't think that free will, you see, the standard account, the standard materialist account is to say that free will doesn't exist. This is not just materialism. So I think Bernardo Castro, who's an idealist, also doesn't think free will exists.
I don't know how one can come to a decision so adamantly. It's unclear. So here's an example. Roger Penrose, even Roger Penrose, a physicist, one of the most brilliant people on the planet, says he thinks free will exists. It's just not able to be defined nor modeled. We have an intuition as to what it is. Currently, it escapes our physics. It has something to do with the active component of consciousness. But what it is, precisely, we don't know. We experience it on an almost moment-to-moment basis.
But as soon as we try to grasp it, it's like water. It just goes through our fingers, but it doesn't mean the water is not there. Then there's also physical reasons. Well, I have to be delicate with my words. There's something in physics called determinism, which means that the conditions later in time are exactly calculable from something farther back. That's somewhat true.
Okay, sorry, that's somewhat true. That's almost the definition of determinism. However, even in Newtonian mechanics, there's non-determinacy. So people will say in Newtonian mechanics, in classical mechanics, Einstein mechanics and so on, that doesn't have to do with quantum mechanics. There it's a deterministic world. I'm sure you've heard Laplace's demon. If I knew all the positions of the molecules and the momentum, then I can calculate the universe at some future state.
Turns out that that's not true. So for example, there's Norton's Dome. This is a word or phrase people can look up. It's Norton's Dome. It's basically a solution to Newton's equations that are non-deterministic. So it means that determinism isn't actually baked into classical mechanics. People like to think so. So that means that even free will may be able to be saved there. Then there's people like Nicholas Gisson, who says that free will is a necessary precondition in order for us to even
do science. So you use science to negate free will, but we use free will in order to say that science works. Okay, how does that work? Well, in order for you to determine whether a particular statement is reasonable, quote-unquote reasonable, you're using your free will. Now if you weren't, then you would just be using, you would have no basis to accept it. This is Nicholas Gisson's argument. This is not mine. I don't buy it completely. But all I'm saying is that
There are extremely brilliant people on both sides, and it's not like the data is settled on this issue of free will. It also has extreme implications, extreme implications for us. So for example, Dostoevsky has this quote, I don't recall where it's from, but it's something like, this is long, if you don't mind me a minute and a half,
Even if man were nothing but a piano key and this were proved to him by the laws of natural science and arithmetic, even then, man would not become reasonable but instead do something perverse out of sheer ingratitude simply to prove to himself
that man is not a piano key. Now you may say that this too can be calculated and tabulated, the darkness and the curses and that reason would reassert itself. Well then man would go mad simply to rid himself of reason to prove to himself that man is not a piano key. Now you may scream that no one is touching my free will. All that you care about is that my free will accord with the laws of natural science and arithmetic and my own interest. Well good heavens gentlemen,
What will be left of free will when it will all be tabulated and arithmetized, when it will all be a case of twice two makes four, twice two makes four without my will, as if free will meant that. So that's one of my favorite quotes from Dostoyevsky, which essentially is saying that, hey, you mess with someone's free will, you mess with the concept of free will to your own societal peril. Yeah, I think, you know, there's room for
I think there's room for, it's like the analogy of the sandbox. If a sandbox was created, if I build a sandbox for my son, I put the sand and the toys in there, and I say you have to play in the sandbox for an hour,
I've always been able to make whatever choices I wanted to make.
I wanted to be a professional football player when I was three years old, right? And I just didn't grow tall enough. I grew wide enough, but not tall enough. And then I wanted to be a scientist. My mother bought me microscopes. And we had a pond by our house. And we would go out and get this pond scum and look at Omivas and some things. But at some point, I made the choice, had the free will to decide.
I wanted to be, you know, going to, you know, doing design and build work. I think, so what if my choices were limited? You know, I still had a few choices. I think there actually weren't that limited. I probably limited them myself, you know. Yeah, there's something about, sorry, there's something about limitation and free will that coincide paradoxically, because the word free is there, which seems to imply
free energy.
There has to be some component of being restricted in order for one to properly exercise the free will. For example, you choose dependent on your memory. If you had no memory, the free action would be arbitrary. There doesn't seem to be an arbitrariness about one exercising free will. It seems to have something to do with intent.
So the fact that you're limited to a particular height, to a particular geographical region, or a time period, and same with all of us, I don't see that as going against the concept of free will.
It's funny, it's just on a human level. Take a homeless person who can't seem to get ahead. Are they to just expect or accept that it was predetermined that they were to be homeless? Or do we allow them to think they can become something different?
You know, that's the problem I have with people who think that free will doesn't exist is that it's really a presser of human, of the human spirit, right? I want people to think that they have, they can do whatever they want to do in life and they can. And there are a lot of people, there's a lot of examples of this, you know, and if life is too short, you know, to give people this idea that they don't have any free will,
you know, and that they're stuck in their condition, you know, it's just, it's depressing to me. I think of those people as oppressives. What do the Scientologists call people oppressives? I think, you know, suppressives, whatever their term, I always thought that was a funny term, but I want people to have hope and know that they can
I was, you know, I was a poor, we were brought up poor. I was born in Appalachians, you know, that's some of the poorest areas in the country, right? Dirt farmers, you know, and I didn't grow up thinking I was poor. I grew up thinking, how can I, you know, how can I improve myself? How can I do better? And I just, you know, you got to go do it, you know? And so I don't know how people justify when, when there's so many examples of that, how they justify
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But I've always thought, I've got to be careful because that question out there alone is what worked a couple hours, isn't it? But let's see, let me look here and see. I've got these two monitors and one's getting in front of the other. I was trying to figure out what good segues are. By the way, I also don't think that having free will goes against the idea that
one can be unduly and negatively restrained by their environment. So, for example, I think that one of my ethos, one of my values, or something that I think is that the quality of a society is the way that the populace treats the homeless people. No, not necessarily the governments.
Because that's the easy route is to say the government should take care of the homeless and I think that they should but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't show compassion and I think that there's a great line in the Bible like woe to the person who has something to give in dozens. I think that we should not look down at homeless people and we should be generous and kind
and bestowing and helpful and loving and warm and merciful and to see how the heck you could be in that situation easily you're so so lucky that you're not or they're so unlucky there's similar framing so I think that people who haven't had an addiction or people who don't have friends they have no clue what it's like to have an addiction or concomitantly have no friends there's the study with rats
Where if you give rats cocaine, then they continually do so, even neglecting food, and they'll do so until they die. However, that happens with single rats in cages, but if you put them with a group and you give them access to cocaine, they'll do it every once in a while, like they'll have a party, but they won't sacrifice food for it.
And that implies that the social environment has such a role to play in addiction and into homelessness, and it's a terrible, terrible state. You hear people who, maybe they're not homeless, maybe that's not the right term, but they're not well, and they walk around the street and they scream, and it's almost never, never a positive statement. It's never, oh, this is wonderful, I love you all. It's something, go after yourself and take a knife into your vagina. It just shocks you,
hold on to your wife or you give them a wide berth as you cross the street or you try not to look at them because you don't want to acknowledge that that could be you or you don't want to acknowledge that you don't want them to look well it's a sad sad state and sure it could be their fault who cares who cares so all of our problems almost all of our problems are a fault to some degree the compassion should always be given anyway so that's me saying that even if one is to believe in free will it doesn't mean
that one should just neglect those who are on I don't want to say on the underside of society because that implies that they're beneath us in some way but financially they are and mentally they seem to be it's not a pleasant place
and I also think free will is necessary for them to get themselves out of that position too psychologically because if they're told like it's twin it's not free will therefore you stay in your lower position socially it's free will plus generosity plus mercy plus warmth anyway that's my little aside just so that I'm not misinterpreted as saying I don't believe that
Sorry, I've lost my train of thought, but hopefully you understand. No, I do. And I appreciate that because it, you know, we can have our philosophy and our, you know what I mean? We can have, we can have these conversations, but when it comes down to it, we really should treat other people the way we want to be treated. You know, I think if we get too much too deep into that mindset of, uh,
You know, there's no free will. It doesn't matter what I do in life. To me, I think simple observation gives us the answer that we have free will. But some people would say you're just zooming in too close to a certain condition and you've made these choices but in the end you'll have the same result.
The easiest way to dispel the materialist account of lack of free will is to get them to point out where the distinguishing, where you and the world is distinguished. So what's distinct between you and the world? It's not clear because your electrons overlap with the electrons in the Sun. So technically you are the world. I'm not saying this is the case. I'm saying this is a spiritual way of interpreting materialism or physicalism. And Raymond Smullian who's a mathematician said,
Yeah.
Sorry, I was, sometimes I get so engrossed in a thought, I don't make a very good host. Oh, no, that's fine. Hey, man. Yeah, yeah. Because I'll be thinking, I'm like, that's a that's an awesome thought.
I mean, there was a couple of, and really, I should have saved that one for last because that's a great subject because it touches on so many, so much on the human condition that it's kind of awesome.
I guess if you don't mind me asking you about a couple of my little pet peeves and signs. One of the things about being my age is that I grew up with the development of the internet. For 40 something years, I've been influenced by
knowledge that comes out of this machine at me. And so some of the things that annoy me and maybe they just, I hate to use you to confirm anything that I think, but I do respect your knowledge. And so I wanted to take just a minute to talk about one of the, what I consider myths is time travel.
and Just do it one little quick thought experiment and then you can you can say that it's true or false Or what do you think about it? Okay, and it's a very common But I think sometimes we just need to go back to basics, right? We need to say if if I you know if I jump on a space a rocket and I'm traveling near the speed of light away from Earth and
Time for me slows down. Time remains relative for me, but it is actually slowing down. The closer I reach to speed of light.
and the time on earth remains ticking the same, right? So, if I turn around and come back, I feel like less time has gone by for me than it has for the people on earth. It's still now on earth, and it's still now for me. So I haven't really time traveled. I've just
I've just displaced myself from their relative to their time. I guess what bugs me is when people talk about time travel is if you can just zip back and forth. Does that question even make sense? Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, so with regard to, that's called the twin paradox, by the way. So you go off, Earth stays still, and then you come back. Oh, that's right, yeah.
There's not a satisfying explanation of it. Now you may say, well, the physicist may say, okay, it's simple. It's super simple. You just draw the space-time diagram. So that is, if people who are listening are mathematicians or physicists, then you draw a space-time diagram of what it's like for the Earth, and you just stay in the Earth's frame, just going up toward the center. Time is on the y-axis going upward, and then the rocket ship moves off, let's say, near 44, 46
It's near 45 degree angle and then comes back and you draw a thick line there so that you can have a light clock because that's how you measure times with a light clock. That is to say that you have a
I don't know how to explain this simply, but either way, you have a time-keeping device with you. To compare times only makes sense once you've come back together. So if you were to just go off, this is why the paradox is there, because if you just went off, whereas the other person stayed still, you don't know if they're moving away from you or if you're moving away from them. That's the whole point of special relativity, of relativity. It's that it's all relative. As soon as you come back, then you're able to compare. And then you look at the space-time diagrams and you see which one has more ticks of the clock or less ticks of the clock.
okay anyway there's a reason why i don't find that to be terribly satisfying but we can get into that after as for time travel it's not so out of the question so for example i've been toying with this idea that the past isn't fixed phenomenologically meaning from our experience so phenomenology is a
branch of philosophy by this person named Husserl or Heidegger which essentially means take your experience as fundamental don't take the quote-unquote objective world take your experience that's what's first okay so phenomenologically it seems clear that the past isn't fixed because our memories constantly change we have a certain
There also doesn't seem to be the idea of past because there's only the now. So it's not quite clear to me that what's objective should hold more water. Secondly, there's also solutions to Einstein's equations, such as the Gödel universe. So Gödel of the Gödel's incompleteness theorem, if people have heard about that.
which have closed time-like curves, and that is that you have time travel. And so one of the ways you get around time travel in physics is by stipulating there exists no closed time-like curves. But then what you've done is you've proven time travel doesn't exist by assuming it doesn't exist. I guess I was trying to eliminate the folding of spacetime. Hear that sound?
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scenario. I was just trying to do some basic, you know, out there back time dilation, right? And so we can test that, right? We've actually tested this. We've run experiments on the time dilation, right? Because we have measured the differences between astronauts as well, you know, right? Haven't we taken atomic clocks on our
Space missions and we've compared them when they can come back. So I guess my my other my other point or question really is is that to me there is no big database in the sky or
you know, the universe that records the past. Uh, and in the example that I just gave the twin, uh, paradox, um, as like you said, as I was traveling through space and coming back, we were still moving through space time. So the only effects, um, the only remnant that is there is our effects on
space time that is behind us because we are moving in a direction right and that you can't go back to that point that so you can't travel backward in time and you really can't travel I can't just dial in a date well I guess I could Tony it would be unclear how one detects if one has traveled backward in time so could be that we have already it could be this is us
How do we know? Because if you've undone it, we don't know. So in some ways it's unfalsifiable. There's also the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics, which isn't talked about much, which is Richard Feynman's interpretation, which has time going in both directions. I think he precludes the past by saying we only observe the forward one.
However, the backward one does occur. I need to study this some more and I'd like to do an episode on that. But there is the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics and then there is time revert. I'm just throwing out. It sounds like Balderdash to people who did it, but I'll throw out words because some people who watch are
time reversal symmetry, there's something called CPT symmetry. I also don't think that our conception of time is developed enough to answer such a question. So the reason I say that is because, well, firstly, this is not a controversial statement. This is Carlo Rovelli is opining on what time is. He's a physicist. Lee Smolin is still on this. Like this is not
It sounds like a woo statement but it's not. I have a podcast with this podcaster named Generation Z, his name is Dave. The word time has existed before physicists and then physicists came along and said let me measure one aspect of this time that you refer to and then we now think that that time is all of what time should be.
Sticking to like a timeline, help me keep this simple for me. If I were to, for me, I don't think of it in almost terms because as
The now is traveling through space-time. So I'm not back at that point anymore. I'm at a different point. So how can I go to a point? And let me ask you this. If I was able to go back to a point, there would be no way to travel fast enough to get back to the point, the current now, because I couldn't travel faster than okay. So then we get into a lot of the relativity questions. But I'm just saying
Without the Woo, to me, it doesn't seem like, you know, it doesn't seem practical. You know, maybe I just have a limited amount of knowledge on the subject, but I'm just thinking of it on the scale or the timeline scale, right? If I go back, you know, Earth, all of nature is still moving down the timeline. There's nothing there. The only thing there, let's say,
You can't even get in front of the light that we emitted because you can't travel faster than light to get in front of it, to look back at it. Yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying. I would just say that keep in mind, physics becomes overturned every, well, it's happening less and less, but it becomes overturned every 60, 70 years or so. So even faster than light travel is not out of the question. So this Frederick Schuller,
who has a great lecture on faster than light matter. And he says, people think all of science would have to be overturned. No, you just go back to the formalism and there's a different kind of light cone. It expands slightly larger. And we can even write down how faster than light matter would have to propagate or what conditions it would have to follow. So all of this is to say, I don't know, we're so young with it.
hear that sound.
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I often thought that black holes were a gateway to other universes and that we can gain information and that the plasma, the information that's being spit out of the center,
the jets or maybe information from other universes or something. So it's not like I don't have an imagination. It's just that I have this yearning, this desire to stay grounded in some way. And I just want to tell people, try it. Show me how you do it. Don't just talk about it. And most people honestly don't have the ability. And I understand that I don't have the ability to
All I can do is think of it on a linear basis. I know that's very elementary. But I like to think that entropy is a thing and that the me that is now is obviously
Breaking down over time. And so I don't know how you I don't know how you can justify the entropy with traveling to the past, you know. I mean, even if even if, you know, I understand. But so you've eased you've eased my thinking. All I'm saying is that our understanding of
not only physics, but the universe, ourselves, and so on, is extremely, I could say rudimentary, but then also you could say there's the opposite view of the more eastern end, which is that you have arrived already, you know everything, stop it. This is more nonsense being generated by, one of my favorite quotes is by T.S. Eliot, which says, and at the end of all our exploring, we'll be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
I think that's one of the ways that one can recover a sense of realness, by the way, because, as you know, we have this sense of, this is solid, but then you look with a microscope and then you see, well, the atoms are spaced so far apart, it's an illusion, the ego is an illusion, etc., etc. This world is an illusion. I think that it goes through a phase. I think that if one is still trapped in that illusory phase, one hasn't progressed. So there's the real phase where you just take everything for granted, your child,
and then you go through a horrible debilitating phase. But then I think that the stories, and Diana Posilka seemed to allude to this, or actually directly reference it, that the story of ancient people is to go through Plato's cave, to exit it, say, oh my gosh, those were just shadows on the wall, I thought they were real, but then to come back and realize the reality of it, that there's actually something real about it, and all this talk about illusory free will and illusory ego and illusory world,
I think that's just step two. I think step three is to come back and to say, actually, no, there is solidity here. So for example, Bernardo Castrop would say, it's not idealism that says all of this is in your head. That's materialism. Materialism is the one that says you're projecting all of this. Idealism, at least his version of idealism, says that you're a mind inhabiting this world. Your folk sensations, your ordinary sensations of solidity is real.
You then go through this scientific process of undoing it, but actually what's most real is your experience of it. And there's some more subtleties to it. But anyway, I think that to me demonstrates that progression. You grow up feeling this rock is solid, then you go and it's undermined by science and physicalism. And if you take it seriously, well, you're going to... Good luck to you if you take it seriously.
Anyway, then you eventually, if you're lucky, you can come back to a place where you say, you know what, this is real. I have free will, or at least I have something akin to free will. There is an ego. There is solidity here. It may not be the initial conception, but there's something there and maybe more real than the original realness. You may come back and feel like, oh my gosh, man, I have such a loose grip on reality for a while, but now I'm starting to feel like I'm in a better place. This is more real.
This is more real than when I was a child. And this is more loving than when I was a child. I have a feeling love has something to do with it. I have a feeling that what's real is loving. Now that's absolutely strange for someone who studies math and physics to say. But I can speak nebulously for a while. Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, the thing is, it's like I said, we're kind of stuck in this big sandbox.
We can think of, you know, if a big boulder falls on my head, I can say, you know, wow, that boulder has atoms that are so far apart that I can't, you know, I'm going to get squished. And then maybe in my next life, I'll be able to brag about, you know, think on terms of
I think that's a dangerous part of our society is to venerate the objective to such a degree that we neglect the utility of what we're doing. So it's rare that a scientist, let's say a programmer at Google will think, well, what the heck am I creating?
Let me step back. Let me resign firstly or secondly. It's rare that that happens. We think in terms of interest and objectivity and we have this assumption or at least we tell ourselves, well, whatever we're studying objectively will eventually provide flourishment. That's not clear. In fact, it seems clear that that's not the case with the invention of atomic bombs and potentially illnesses that can wipe out our entire civilization.
And I'm no economist, but I don't think there's an economist who would say that our financial system doesn't have its perils and that it's dubious and that it can go, it can be extremely deleterious for a large portion of the audience. Sorry, a large, well, a large portion of the audience, sure, and a large portion of the population. So it's not clear to me that let's just study whatever it is objectively and remove ourselves. Let's be dispassionate about it. It's not clear to me that that's good. I don't think that
scientists would say that it's good, I think that they act sometimes, irresponsibly, by not stepping back and saying, well, is what I'm doing producing a positive effect or not? These are hard discussions to have in an hour and a half, aren't they? I was looking at the questions from those who submitted them. I think we could go through
If you had to go back, this was Jess. He submitted through the Think Tank website.
Okay, sure. It would be about having a goal in mind.
So for example, when studying, don't just try to memorize, let's say some theorem, Barrett's Reconstruction Theorem, if you're trying to understand SO10. So these are physics terms. Learn what you have to learn as steps to some goal. Don't just go and learn because you're told you should know so-and-so. So that's one. Another one would be to, well it's difficult because it's easy for me to say that
marriage is extremely sacred and there's something wonderful about it and that sex isn't trivial and that me breaking women's hearts because I had mine so damaged and I was so hurt that it's no way to live and you'll cut off so many parts of your life because of that. Just don't fall prey to that. Meet odium with love. Settle down, perhaps even. Though you don't have to settle down, just meet that rancor with
Something positive. But it's easy for me to say because I have some perspective. It's not as if, well, none of us are, but I have perspective. It's unclear to me if one has to live through a path in order to see that the lesson, sometimes it's unclear to me that one can suggest a lesson to someone who hasn't gone through a path already.
Yeah, one of my funny little beliefs is that when we were created, there was this DNA blocker that our children have that don't
doesn't allow them to learn from their parents. You know, like I can't, you can't pass down, but they have to, they have to obtain their own knowledge, right? Because it seems like we would have evolved so much quicker if, if, uh, if our children had, had, uh, of course, I guess that goes the opposite way too. Maybe it's a protection mechanism against ignorance. I don't know, but, uh,
Alexei, and I'm not being fair to Alexei because he had several questions and I just picked one at random. And I think we may have answered, you may have talked about this already. Do you think UAPs are extraterrestrials or from secret projects? His other question was a lot more, I have to give him credit, complicated. I don't know. I don't know. I'm undecided on that.
Okay, yeah, I'm sorry like say we kind of talked about that earlier Walker During the introduction of an interview with Lou I'm sorry that was his name was Walker. I'm sorry during the introduction of an of an interview with Lou Kurt says read between the lines on what Lou says what Kurt
Now he has time to process it. Discern from Lew's comments and breadcrumbs on the UAP phenomenon and our origins and evolution. That's a tough question to even read. I don't know how you're going to answer it. Do you remember that interview? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not bright enough or informed enough to read between the lines. Oh, that's not a Freudian slip.
So I don't know. Yeah, I think there's a quality to that because I tend to like to study people and sometimes I think that what I'm learning, what I'm reading between the lines is incorrect. And so it's probably, you know, you think it might be a good trait, but it's probably, I like the objectivity behind, like, you know, not necessarily making the assumptions.
It's akin to reading poetry in a sense, hopefully it's more concrete than that, but there are wrong ways to read poetry and the reason you know this is that we don't all get A's when we submit our poetry essays in school. It seems to be something that distinguishes high quality analysis and low quality analysis. And same in universities, otherwise they wouldn't give out grades at all.
So there seems to be better, maybe not wrong, but better or less better or more suited or less suited ways of interpreting. It's not an easy task. What we have are these intimations and we have nubilist data, bleary conjectures and they contradict with one another. So we have a sense that
a sneaking suspicion that something is there, almost all of us has that, that there's more to this subject than meets the eye. We feel it in our guts and we're each taking a large gamble that there's more to this and it could be that there's not. That's what we're doing. I have tremendous respect for Lou. So when I said that that's not a Freudian slip, I meant that. I hope that that's not taken out of context. It's not easy to do. Yeah, I mean, it's different if you're, you know, if somebody comes up to you and says,
Oh, it's a great day. You know, and you're reading between the lines and you think, oh, he doesn't really think it's a great day because, you know, he said, oh, it's a great day. Then that's different from, you know, you're having a conversation with Lou who has, um, you know, limitations on what he can say, what he can't, you know, what he can and can't say. Right. So he,
He's automatically at a disadvantage, he can't say probably everything he wants to say. Luz is in such a terrible position, a position that I don't envy, because I believe he has knowledge that he can't come out and talk about, whether or not that's been given to him as false information, whether or not it's, well, whatever, he has some knowledge that he can't speak about and we assume that it's knowledge about UFOs and that it's about
We have assumptions about what the knowledge could be, and we desperately want him to reveal it. And so we look and we know, this person knows more about this subject, but he can't say it. So maybe he's leaking information in subtle ways to escape the legalities. He could be. It's tricky. We don't know. He may be. We don't know. And I'm, like I mentioned, I'm not astute enough, I'm not knowledgeable enough to
to perform an interpretation. I allow or I allow or the community decocks for their own and then I get to take a look and I formulate some of my own ideas but it changes. There's all and this is kind of a minor point and I'm not speaking of Lou. I'm just saying people who have worked in the intelligence agencies also again this is not Lou. Don't everybody jump on me. I love Lou okay. I love the guy but people like him
have certain jobs of creating certain, that is their job to create the breadcrumbs and to get you to try to read between the lines and they're trying to influence what you're trying to read between the lines. That's what counterintelligence is.
I'm not saying lose practice. No, I understand what you're saying. I understand. I'm saying if that's why you can't, that's why you, you know, you wouldn't have to be a 3d chess expert to even start to go there. So it's probably best that we don't make those assumptions. I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah, I agree. I agree in that. Sorry, let me be clear about what I'm agreeing to. I agree that one can drive themselves mad, actually mad.
Putting up newspaper clippings on the wall, putting pins in them and drawing red pointers between them, like the detective trying to find patterns that will allow them to catch a serial killer when the data is so scant. And this is simple. This is from statistics. Everyone knows this. If you have just a few data points, you can't draw a line. You don't even know if it's a line that you're supposed to draw. Is it a curve? What kind of curve? It's called curve fitting, which are what you don't want to do.
Sorry, I was actually just giving Alexei's actual question and I screwed up. I may have subconsciously avoided it because I don't understand it. Do you think we orbit the center of all time and that human experience is limited by the factor of the speed of light? I don't understand the question either, Tony, so we're both in the same place.
I think I've gathered some of his concepts, but honestly I would have to do much more study, spend many more
Hangouts with Alexei on that one. Let's see, the last user presented question is, could you make a podcast explaining Maxwell's Heaviside Equations? He snuck in two questions. Did Louis Elizondo have anything to do with setting up that interview with Sal Pais? I'm sorry. Okay, I'll answer them in order. Number one, there are plenty of explanations out there already.
on the heavy side equations and as for and so I can't do oh hey it's a great time I can announce this so I just announced this on Chris Leto's show which will come out Friday but anyway there's this youtuber called 3blue1brown by the way Tony when does this come out this is live but then are you taking it down and then editing I can if you want me to no no it's fine so you'll just leave this up I generally do yes that's fine okay so then this can be announced
There's a YouTuber called ThreeBlueOneBrown who's a YouTuber that gives math explainers beautifully done. Well, they make you weep looking at them because they take an extremely overwrought subject that's not explained well and then explains them such that you can understand them five years before you're supposed to. So let's say a fourth year undergrad concept when you're first year or high schooler. He did a contest last year and he said, you know, it would be great if there was more math explainer videos
animated perhaps, maybe it's a lecture, maybe it's of some sort of documentary, whatever, math explainer videos on YouTube. And to facilitate this or to encourage it, I'm going to make a contest. This is Grant Sanderson of 3Blue1Brown saying this. So why don't you all submit
to me your some idea for mathematics video and I'll feature them I'll even give a prize to the top five like a thousand dollars each so five thousand in total and he had a thousand submissions and they were it was wonderful the point is not to win the point is simply to push more content of mathematical explanations out there
And I thought, you know, that'd be great to do for physics and consciousness. So I emailed him and I said, would that be all right if I do because I don't want you to feel as if what I'm doing is treading too closely to your ground. And he said, just go for it. So in about one week or so, I'm going to announce officially, though here this counts, I'm going to announce on the Toe channel that there will be a physics and consciousness
contest for people to explain, take some advanced concept in physics. Now the Maxwell Heaviside equations aren't terribly advanced. You learned that as a second year student, perhaps, but some advanced physics concept and then explain it simply via animations, via a blackboard, via, I have some notes here which I can get to, or consciousness. I wanted to keep the rigor though, so perhaps it's a theory of everything that someone has, they can explain it in five minutes, twenty minutes, beautifully done with
Proper audio and video and submit it. Or it can be an ingredient to a toe. So for example, Wolfram's theory or loop quantum gravity, what are Ashtakar variables? That's the lecture two in loop quantum gravity.
you can explain ingredients to a toe or a toe or consciousness or a side of consciousness like what's bernardo's analytic idealism explain that in five to ten minutes such that it's engaging such that it has the rigor and such that it's there's some other condition it's essentially the copycat version of three blue one browns mathematics contest but for physics slash consciousness you can choose physics or consciousness or some combination like penrose does
Anyway, when this person said, can I make a podcast explaining Maxwell's Heaviside Equations, well firstly, that exists, and then secondly, if someone wants they can create it, maybe they can go through Salvatore Pius' interview and put some animations to it and explain what the heck he's talking about. Ah, right, that's it.
I would add it, of course, I couldn't do any of that, but I would add that when people do that, try to be original, you know, and, and, and, you know, because there's a lot of, I'm not going to be mean and call it plagiarism, but people tend to copy and paste.
ideas you know those types of things and one of the reasons i was wanting to talk about and i forgot this honestly you know the human intellect earlier and about education was that i wanted to kind of challenge people like even like me who's who's just a design bill contractor to learn more keep learning because over the years i have absorbed things
right and you can you just have to be consistent like that you know i try to learn something a little tidbit each you know i'll go try to memorize the periodic table or i'll try to you know try to understand the quarks and muons and gluons and
I'll try to just go and pick one little concept and, you know, once a week, but that's kind of where I was going with the objectivity, you know, comments and trying to get people just inspire them to do that, even though they think they may not.
So there's this great quote from Wheeler that I frequently use as a refrain. Wheeler said,
Jibberish.
Are they going to eat the parrot? Are you a parrot? Are they saying you're parroting someone? You have no clue. Later on you get another word and slowly and all what happens is generally is there will come a point where so much more makes sense. It may take one year where little makes sense, little more, little more and then it accelerates and then you have another plateau and then it accelerates. So just keep pushing through. Just get wet. I want to make a toe t-shirt. Just get wet.
I also want to make a toe t-shirt that says don't thrust or stop thrusting about how people thrust their toes, much like I'm sure occurs in your comment section or in the live chat where people have this point of view and they try to impose it upon others from their theory of everything. Don't thrust. Trust your toe. If you truly had a toe, you would be so much more calm about it. I was talking to someone, some spiritual guru about this topic, and he said, Kurt, if you were to ask the Dalai Lama about some grand metaphysical question,
He would almost certainly say, I don't know. And he would just be calm about it. And he would just smile at you. He wouldn't be typing in all caps in the comment section. He wouldn't be saying authoritative statements. So you can take that as a sign that likely the person who's thrusting doesn't either trust their own toe or doesn't have a toe with humility.
One of the people I was following for a while was Sadguru when I was studying Jainism.
And I found the philosophy very interesting. And it reminded me of your quote from the Dalai Lama. It's awesome. I guess you balance that with, it's not that you're not thirsting for knowledge or that you're making an effort to learn. It's that when you encounter people, how do you treat them with that knowledge, right?
There was a question that I didn't answer which is part two of I don't recall the person's name who asked about Sal and Lou Elizondo. That was Pat. So I can answer that directly. Lou had nothing to do with it. Sal reached out to me via email out of the blue and said that he liked the theories of everything podcast. He likes that it's fairly technical when it comes to physics and he wanted to explain his side. I would like to do
A part two with Sal. It just depends on him. We're both too busy right now. I want to do it in person. He would like to flesh out some ideas with me in a peer-reviewed journal. That is to see if his ideas or certain components of his ideas stand up to rigor. And even if they don't, that's still worth publishing because you can publish a null result. Null results are powerful. No-go theorems, by the way, are some of the most powerful. So Weinberg and Witten have a famous no-go theorem.
about Gravitons, and maybe that would occur, but we'll see. I wish Lou had helped with that. I don't think Lou's helped with anything other than coming onto the program, but that's plenty, man. Lou, I'm so grateful for, because I know that he gets criticized, and every time he comes on, the praise doesn't matter. You probably, you know this just as much as myself and just as much as Lou, or probably nowhere near as much as Lou though, for me for sure, that it doesn't matter how much people praise you,
the criticism sticks perhaps the criticism hurts more because there's praise like a rose with thorns hurts more than simply a thorny bush because you prize the rose and so you see the value that's encompassed by it and then you see the the praise for me is almost embarrassing or in some ways
I don't like the criticism, but I expect it more than praise. If I get praise, it's like, please, thank you, but I don't deserve the praise. I do that because I'm always aware
that I need to learn more. So that's why I'm trying to develop these little personal standards and I thought that's why I was bouncing questions off of you about objectivity and the scientific method and so on because I wanted to kind of be balanced as I go along. You helped me with concepts
You know, on the time travel and not to be so opinionated about it. Also, we don't know what time is. I know that sounds strange for someone who studies physics, but it's not. Carlo Rovelli, Lee Smolin, like I mentioned, are constantly arguing about time. Julian Barber, same as the Janus point theory. Yeah, I got to get going, Tony.
Okay, well thank you, Kurt. I appreciate the time you gave me today. It was awesome and maybe in the future, not too soon, you could come back and we could do a roundtable with some people. I mentioned I aspire to emulate your note-taking habits, man, so thank you for showing me some of them. Do you have any last quick questions before I have maybe two more minutes?
No, we, um, let me, I was going to ask, I was going to ask you to pick a number so that I could, uh, so I've got one, two, three, four, five. If you would just pick a number between one and five, that's going to be our winner on the people who's, who, uh, entered questions. Okay. So one, two, three or four or five. Okay. Can you tell me what number you think I have?
Okay, I have two. I was going to be flipped out if you got it. No, I haven't done very well in the remote viewing experiments. I guess I'm a little skeptical. But I haven't done very well in the experiments that we've put out. So I'm going to check some of the comments before I go. Is that alright? No, go ahead please. I didn't want to run you off. I thought you were out of time.
Oh, yeah, I do have to get going soon. Okay, let me see. So Kurt M. Kurt M, by the way, there's someone named Kurt M. I keep thinking this person's not many people have Kurt with a C. Are you the Kurt J out there? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Someone said is Sal really that nice? Sal is inspiring how nice he is, at least to me.
Sound reminds me of a guy I grew up with who had Asperger's. I'm not saying he has Asperger's, I'm sorry. He just reminds me of a guy. You could ask him the depth of the Atlantic Ocean at a given coordinate and he could tell you. I love the guy, but I didn't mean to make that comparison. His mannerisms and his look even reminds me.
Yeah, I really appreciate your time and I don't know if there's any other comments out there you saw that you want to address, but
I do appreciate it. I think it's important for people like us to get together. You know, I think there's too much, there's almost like this division of the classes, you know, and especially on the internet, there's the scientists and the workers and the, you know, and this and that. I like it. I like that you accepted this invitation and you came to speak to me. You are much more of a scientist than
I think you underestimate your influence.
I mean, you've certainly inspired me to invite you and hope that you came and to spread whatever message you could about physics and science and learning and intelligence and consciousness. Thank you. That sharing of your time is really awesome. I appreciate it.
And about this division of the classes on YouTube, I don't know if I would put it as such, but I do see something where, so this is a pre-announcement, I do see where people who are higher up than you in whatever it may be views, subscriber count,
Twitter followers that they tend to not even acknowledge you and partly that's because for me I'm MLS so I'm desirous I want to I'm a competitive person and I see that in others and I know that I because I see that in myself I know that I wish someone when I was struggling super struggling with YouTube still am to some degree but when I like let's say a year ago or two years ago that someone would just acknowledge me someone would say hey you should check out
I've emailed several people who are
higher up than me and they don't seem to want to meet anyway I thought you know what why don't I catalog my favorite channels that are 15,000 subscribers to zero so like maybe just up-and-coming creators in the same space as myself so math physics consciousness even UFOs and I highlight them in a video say if you like the Toe channel check out these small creators because I know what it's like to be struggling and have no one talk about you so tomorrow or the day after or so
you can expect a video where if you invite Tony you're doing well otherwise I would have I would have mentioned you man but you have like 70,000 subscribers so kudos to you it's and see I understand that I'm in a kind of in a different genre that's why I'm thanking you because most people wouldn't understand in those you know all right man well and honestly my channel is not as big as it appeared I had some success early on with 3d printing and I had some viral
You see, it's not really that's why numbers really don't mean much. Uh-huh. And, and you're, I mean, you're doing, I think a lot of people look at your channel and think you're doing great. And like, maybe they, maybe it's like, you don't, they don't think you need to help, you know, uh, maybe that's one of the, I don't know, but in any, in any event, I appreciate it. And again, I wish more people.
I wish we could do more of this blending and I really appreciate it. That's why I have a different perspective of Lou. He obviously didn't have to say yes to come let me talk with him twice, you know, and so I, you know, that gave me the courage to just reach out to you and other people, you know, so I think it's awesome.
Thank you. And if I just have one more, well, this is something similar to Promote, which is what we talked about before, that contest. I'm not sure what I'm calling it, a physics and consciousness contest. I'll come up with the name in a couple days. If you want to learn some subject, like I mentioned, Ashtakar variables, you're probably like, what the heck is that? Or loop quantum gravity, well, the Ashtakar variables you should know for loop quantum gravity. Or you want to learn loop quantum cosmology, or Yoshabok's idea of computation and consciousness.
or what Noam Chomsky has to say about meaning. If you want to learn something, you can also create a video on that subject. Creating and teaching something to others is one of the easiest, quickest and most efficient ways of learning a concept.
as well as you don't need to be the expert so there are two classes of videos one where you know far more and then you're just distilling it down but another where you know almost nothing and you're going through the process and you're saying well here is what i i've learned this but i'm still unsure about so and so here are the open questions i have this is as far as i know this is what i thought but then i read this and so on so you take people through the learning process that's another type of video that's extremely it's endearing
The only request I have is that sometime if you could do a video for people like me who are wanting to learn more, it would be like a basic, and it would be based on that level of intelligence, a basic reading list or any kind of resources that would be for
people who are working
I guess you've seen MIT's OpenCourseWare. I go there. That's a resource, just a simple free lectures from MIT. It's very interesting. But I think it would be cool to have something from you as like an outline for people who don't have physics degrees. Yeah. So I do have the video that I spent the most on on the Theories of Everything channels called the Crash Course on Theoretical Physics. It's aimed at a
Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe it's not practical.
Also, I would say, Tony, you know far more than perhaps than you give yourself credit for. If you know about time dilation, you know about that it's related to going toward the speed of light. You know that there seems to be an inconsistency here. You know that, well, if I was to travel back in time, the Earth has moved. So how am I traveling? You have quite a wealth of knowledge already, and you're not formally trained in math or physics. So don't underestimate your own intelligence, man.
I know, but I've been interested in this stuff my whole life and I've only acquired a certain amount of it. And so what I'm trying to get other people to do, even from this one experience is say, look, you can learn, you can learn, you can just make an effort. You can grasp those little concepts as you go along. It's like you were saying earlier, it builds on, eventually you'll learn the periodic table if you just keep at it.
you know, I was inspired by my son. He learned the periodic table when he was like five years old, you know, for a, for a class in elementary school. And that was awesome. He inspired me, a five year old. So that's wonderful. But thank you. Thank you, Kurt. I appreciate your time. And, uh, it's been awesome. And, um, I appreciate yours. Thank you so much. Take care of me. Thank you.
The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash c-u-r-t-j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l. That is Kurt Jaimungal. Its support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you.
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"text": " The Economist covers math, physics, philosophy, and AI in a manner that shows how different countries perceive developments and how they impact markets. They recently published a piece on China's new neutrino detector. They cover extending life via mitochondrial transplants, creating an entirely new field of medicine. But it's also not just science they analyze."
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"text": " Where senior editors argue through the news with world leaders and policy makers in twice weekly long format shows. Basically an extremely high quality podcast. Whether it's scientific innovation or shifting global politics, The Economist provides comprehensive coverage beyond headlines. As a toe listener, you get a special discount. Head over to economist.com slash TOE to subscribe. That's economist.com slash TOE for your discount."
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"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. Now what to do with your unwanted bills? Ever seen an origami version of the Miami Bull?"
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"text": " This is an auxiliary episode where Artis and Tony interviewed me for his channel, which is linked in the description. We talk about theoretical physics, time travel, consciousness, free will, and God."
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"text": " Visit Artis and Tony's YouTube channel by clicking on the link in the description. A written review on whichever platform you're listening to this Theories of Everything episode from also helps significantly. Thank you, and enjoy the supplementary episode where Artis and Tony interviews Kurt Jaimungal."
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"text": " Hello, Kurt. How are you? I'm great, man. It's good to be here. Thank you, Tony. I'm really excited. Tell me why I'm more excited about this interview than any of my other 57. This is Pi Phi number 57."
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"text": " 157 is one is my favorite number. So oh wow, that's that's spooky No, it's it's interesting actually Yeah, I've been doing a series for quite a while and I just keep kind of adding to it and for some reason I was nervous and excited And I guess I'll kind of explain that a little bit along the way About why but I thought what I'm not doing is let you just kind of talk about the"
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"text": " Well, introduce yourself because I'll probably just butcher it."
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"text": " for what you want people to know about you. I know you're a filmmaker, documentary maker, you know, I'm not quite sure of your other credential, you know, your other, how you refer to yourself. So a YouTuber, we all know you're a YouTuber, so. Sure. Firstly, I wanted to commend you as you're one of the most prepared people that I've been interviewed by. You have assiduously written notes. I've been interviewed by quite a few people, so hats off to you, man."
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"text": " You have exemplary note-taking habits. Thank you, I appreciate it. It's something that I think... That's something that somebody like me has to do to be prepared. I aspire to emulate that quality, man. Now, as for who I am, Kurt Jemungle, that's my name. I have a channel called Theories of Everything, which is about physics and consciousness."
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"text": " Theories of everything is a physics term, which is about what are the ultimate laws of nature. Generally, it's how do you merge quantum mechanics or quantum field theory with general relativity. But then it's more broad and about metaphysics and philosophy, which is why the consciousness has come in. And then there seem to be"
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"text": " There's ostensibly implications for UFOs. And that's one of the reasons why I started to tackle that subject and continue to do so. It's a motif rather than a theme. Oh, yes. And then my background is in mathematical physics, if people are interested, and filmmaking. I think that's an awesome combination, Gary. You've made a really great YouTube channel, and I've enjoyed it over the years."
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"text": " Thank you. How long have you been? I guess I've only been watching for maybe two years, I think. When did you start your channel? About two years. You're an early adopter, man. My background, and this was kind of leading up to my first question, if you don't mind."
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"text": " My background obviously I'm a design build contractor, but I've always been Fascinated by you know physics and science and when I was a kid My mother had had this I don't know. She she almost she had these you know this intuition. I guess I got it, but She knew she knew I was going you know"
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"text": " I wanted to be a builder. You know, so she bought me Legos and not Legos, Lincoln logs and pocket trucks. And, and, but I always kept saying, mom, I want to be a scientist. And it's kind of funny by the time, by the time high school rolled around, uh, you know, I entered into this, uh, trade school. I went to high school half a day in this building trade school."
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"text": " another half of the day and and that's where I kind of I kind of came to a fork in the road at that point in my life and I realized that I was more you know meant to it felt like I was meant to do this instead of that in other words and I and I thought that that matched my intellectual abilities better you know and the reason I bring this up is because I've always been interested in"
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"text": " human intelligence and how different humans compare to each other. And to me, it's almost like, and this is really, I'm sorry, taking so long getting around to the question. It's a good time, man. I'm a little nervous, I'm sorry. I'm more nervous than you. It's like the bear is scared of. I guess what amazes me is that I can't"
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"text": " On one hand, I understand evolution and I understand that some humans can, you know, obviously their brains don't get wired the same through DNA and, you know, that whole evolutionary process. But on the other hand, I was giving the example of my son before we came on the air of how he is gifted. He was, you know, in Mensa at four years old. And then you look at me, how did two different, how does a family produce two people like that?"
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"text": " with such a vast intelligence levels, you know, in the same gen, you know, just one generation apart. What do you think about? I guess what I'm leading up to is the question is, do you think that I would like to think that certain people are given traits, you know,"
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"text": " I don't know. I'm kind of a spiritual guy. I believe that I was given certain talents and gifts, and maybe they were for a reason, a purpose, and I practiced that purpose earlier in life. I don't want to tell you my whole life story. That would be boring for the audience, but I'm just trying to get to this point. What you think about that? Do you think simple evolution is the answer, or do you think that people have purpose that they were created for?"
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"text": " I see what you're saying. I don't see it as being either or. I don't see why it can't be both. Yeah, and I was curious about what you, your early life, as a child, were you influenced by religion in any way, or did you develop any kind of source of spirituality along the way?"
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"text": " Yeah, my parents were and still are Christian. However, that made me a rebel. It made me a rebel against Christianity. So I became an atheist when I was eight or nine or ten or so. So I would say it influenced my insubordination. And I had these these fairly indirect attitudes of disliking the majority of what people are saying. I'd say that I'm a anti-conformist."
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"text": " Yeah, my mother influenced me, not the opposite, but we came out of East Tennessee, the woods of East Tennessee, but my mother was this jet setting missionary. She would go to Thailand, Korea, she was exposed to"
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"text": " in all of the different religions, and she would bring back, you know, stories and talk about philosophy with me. And that created a little bit of a, you know, it was almost like she was trying to get me to think out of the box a little bit and not be so, because, you know, coming up in the Bible Belt, you're taught one way, one way or the highway."
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"text": " And so that was a good experience, but what it did do was start making me think what is out there, you know, and then I had this little experience when I was 12 that I thought was a, you know, thought was a UFO. Today, I don't really know. I'm still very objective about it, but that experience"
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"text": " brought me to this point where I really questioned everything. And ever since then, I've had this interest in this topic and people like you, you know, who again, I don't mean people like you. I mean, people, um,"
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"text": " It's almost like humans, and I'm sorry I'm talking too much here. I get nervous and I start talking a lot. Please do. It helps me with the context of the questions. Okay, good. When you're involved with spirituality like that for so long, you can't help but think certain ways. I was taught to believe that the earth was created by the Creator"
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"text": " We were put here for a purpose. And by extension, maybe this planet has a purpose. And it's kind of funny to me that over the years, when I was younger, you couldn't really talk amongst my peers. I actually knew a lot of people who were atheists when I was growing up. So I didn't talk about my"
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"text": " spirituality that much and so but it seems like lately there's a return to it like it's almost like this new and I've been through these phases of where UAPs or UFOs as we used to call them were a thing and then they would subside and then you know I'll be 16 October and"
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"text": " So I've been through several of these phases and people wonder why I'm not as excited about it. It's because, you know, uh, and so where am I going with this question? I'm, I'm trying to say that, um, I wonder what this, it's all kind of ties in because there seems to be a current push for spirituality, you know, the woo, all of this. And it seems like whenever this happens, there's a step away from science."
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"text": " Maybe I'm finally getting to my question. It seems like a lot of people in the UAP community are, I think, their personal experience. They're not objective enough to not let that affect their thoughts on objectivity and science. Do you see that?"
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"text": " No, but I haven't spoken to, no, I haven't, I don't see that. I understand what you're saying. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. So you're saying that there are some people who are in this UFO community, but that doesn't matter. There's some people who have some experience and now they want to believe. Now you had an experience, quote unquote, an experience when you were younger,"
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"text": " You can doubt that experience now because you have some distance and because you would like to see it objectively and you realize, well, that's just one data point and I was biased and I was a kid and I don't want to fall prey to me imposing an epilogue on something where it just may be some rational or scientific explanation, like a cloud."
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"text": " So there are other people who are quick to say what I saw was a UFO or quick to say that there exist aliens or other beings. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, or if you ask questions about it, instead of being an objective person, you're a debunker. It seems like now objectivity has been pushed to the side and you're either a believer"
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"index": 35,
"start_time": 859.77,
"text": " or a debunker. There's no middle ground. And I wish we could return to that middle ground where everyone just said, okay, I had an experience. It was my personal experience. It wasn't, it's not everyone's experience. Now let's see, what do we do to move forward? You know, I guess it's the,"
},
{
"end_time": 903.695,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 882.534,
"text": " the past in me coming out wanting to be a scientist and wanting to be smarter. It's frustrating for me because I always had a hard time with absorbing certain concepts. I absorbed design"
},
{
"end_time": 914.599,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 904.292,
"text": " I've been doing that for 44 years now, I'm pretty good at it, but still have a hard time absorbing some of the quantum mechanics."
},
{
"end_time": 943.114,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 915.026,
"text": " and the math surrounding that. Everyone, everyone does. But firstly, don't beat yourself up because you're in the same shoes as everyone. Secondly, just because someone knows equations, I don't know how to build. I'm in awe of what you do. I'm great with video games. So I have hand-eye coordination there. But I have no hand-eye coordination when it comes to sports or building. I'm not handy. I remember just a couple days ago or a few days ago, I was at a family event and I had to throw some"
},
{
"end_time": 961.049,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 943.114,
"text": " I don't"
},
{
"end_time": 977.671,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 961.254,
"text": " Never played sports after that. I forgot my gym clothes, quote unquote, every single time I would come up with some excuse for why I couldn't go to gym. So I have no hand-eye coordination. I'm not skilled at all and I barely know some math. So anyway, you're in common company."
},
{
"end_time": 1000.094,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 977.671,
"text": " Well, I appreciate that, but I think when it comes to saving the world, my money's on you. Honestly, I guess I'm trying to get to the point to where I was hoping that you could help me inspire people to return to a time when"
},
{
"end_time": 1024.838,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1000.981,
"text": " The scientific method was really appreciated and was really desired when people wanted to convince you of something. It seems like, and this leads me to one of my questions, it's a perfect segue into whether you think we have had disclosure or not."
},
{
"end_time": 1052.79,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1025.52,
"text": " Because it seems like we're being told, it seems like ufology is the new religion. You know, we're told that we need to believe that, you know, I've always tried to teach my kids to say, I think this, I think this, that. Don't say I believe this or I believe that. Say you think it. And so we're being asked to believe that we've had disclosure. What do you think about that?"
},
{
"end_time": 1073.285,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1055.145,
"text": " I mean, do you think we've had disclosure? Okay. So there are a couple of elements here. So number one was about objectivity. Okay. So firstly, actually it was about whether or not I see the same impetus to belief to believe from people who should have more quote unquote objectivity."
},
{
"end_time": 1101.476,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1074.002,
"text": " Okay, the number two is whether or not disclosure has occurred. And number three has to do with the more scientific analysis on this topic. So number one and three are tied. So I'd say for number three, I would say that I'm not exactly performing a scientific analysis. What I'm doing is that I'm extremely curious and I'm asking questions. So much so that I'm even questioning whether the scientific method is the only method to truth. And I'm saying truth with the capital T."
},
{
"end_time": 1126.527,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1101.476,
"text": " because the scientific method has changed across time and what we consider to be literal truth or facts has changed, which means it's approximating something, so perhaps science isn't at its final form, if there is a final form. So I wouldn't say exactly that what I'm doing is trying to bring some dispassionate scientific analysis on the topic of UAPs or UFOs or philosophy or psychology or math or even physics or consciousness."
},
{
"end_time": 1147.398,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1126.527,
"text": " I'm just curious and I'm asking questions as best I can and I cite the errors that I see in real time to the people who are espousing something to me like a professor. So that's number three. And then for number one, I'm lucky in that, well, maybe not lucky, it doesn't matter. I don't see people who, I don't see the same that you see where people are quick to believe."
},
{
"end_time": 1176.8,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1147.398,
"text": " But I can imagine that that's there. I hear that that's there, but I don't have any first-hand experience with experiencers and people who are readily believers. Okay, then number two with regard to disclosure. I don't know. I don't know, man. So Tony, like what the heck are they referring to when they say disclosure has occurred? If they mean the initial steps of disclosure have occurred in the sense that the government is now admitting that UAPs aren't from any known worldly government,"
},
{
"end_time": 1202.5,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1177.312,
"text": " then I agree. If they mean that all the pieces are there and it's like a jigsaw and they're announced and confessed, it's just a matter of us consolidating and putting it together, given enough effort and pattern recognition, then that may be the case. I don't see it as the case. I think that's a route for paranoia and spurious claims devoid of falsifiable substantiation. So I don't know. I don't think that's occurred."
},
{
"end_time": 1232.005,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1202.927,
"text": " I need to know who said disclosure has occurred and in what context did they say that? Well, Luis Elizondo is the main, I was going to say culprit, but I like him. I like Luis Elizondo. You know, I've interviewed him twice and I was kind of thinking the second time I might get more out of them. Because I thought, OK, we're going to get, you know, maybe we will get. I know he can't disclose classified information, but see, that's my point. If there is classified information,"
},
{
"end_time": 1260.981,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1232.551,
"text": " If there still is classified information remaining, then we haven't had disclosure. And I know we can't unclassify. I guess what I'm asking for is if there's some sort of phased plan to give us breadcrumbs or take baby steps, let's just be honest about that. I have a feeling that whatever this phenomenon is, it will disclose itself to us quicker than the government will."
},
{
"end_time": 1282.278,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1261.749,
"text": " I totally agree. Whether voluntarily or not. No, I agree. That's kind of my point in that it seems like the government wants us to think that we've had disclosure, but we haven't. And they're just putting us off till the next phase or till the next happening or what I mean, like when I was a kid, there was a big"
},
{
"end_time": 1310.162,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1283.268,
"text": " Did you ever watch the show UFO? It was a UK TV series, a show, and it was pretty old. I think it was in the 60s, and it came to the United States in reruns. So when I was growing up... I haven't seen that, no. Yeah, you look it up sometimes. It was a really cool show. Again, it was from the UK. It was a British show. It was like a documentary-type show, like Ghost Hunters, or was it fiction?"
},
{
"end_time": 1337.21,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1310.503,
"text": " It was entertainment. It was like X-Files. Yeah. It was the, there was a, there was a group of people who were responsible for protecting earth against. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, and so every now and then the UFO would enter the picture and they would, you know, either deal with it in some way. But my point is, is that you see a lot of the younger people that are in you falling to you right now, they'll have that history."
},
{
"end_time": 1359.582,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1337.705,
"text": " that some of us older people, I don't feel old, but I feel old talking about it, that we've been through these phases of, you know, we've had congressional hearings back in the 60s and 70s, shows. I was just coincidentally, I was watching a video the other night where one of the famous"
},
{
"end_time": 1384.053,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1360.401,
"text": " talk show host was talking to Arthur C. Clark about UFOs, right? And, and, and, uh, Oh, what's his name? Anyway, the guy who ran the show said, what do you think about this current, um, uh, you know, atmosphere? Like, like there was some, again, again, a,"
},
{
"end_time": 1408.08,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1384.667,
"text": " I feel like we're just going through another one of those. Maybe I'm wrong. Do you have that impression"
},
{
"end_time": 1431.681,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1408.541,
"text": " You're only like 20, how old are you, 20 some odd years old? No, I'm 33. Okay, you look younger then. So you probably don't remember those times, you know, where. So anyway, I just, I was curious to see what you thought. And again, I like Louis Elizondo. I invited him to come go shooting at our rifle club. You know, I like the guy."
},
{
"end_time": 1442.705,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1432.756,
"text": " But I do think there's a strange effort afoot to, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1473.387,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1444.326,
"text": " I understand what you're saying. I don't know because I'm not seasoned enough to see the cycles or to recognize that there's a repetition of disclosure from the government or the promise of disclosure, so I don't know. Also, I'm extremely green when it comes to this field. I'm just someone who's extremely interested in math and physics, started to become interested in consciousness, then started to become interested in UFOs, but still my domain is physics and math."
},
{
"end_time": 1502.961,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1473.899,
"text": " So I don't see what you see because I'm not as close to it as you are. Well, and honestly, I'm not that close to it. I think that's how hopefully being able to remain objective about it. I'm not a believer or a skeptic, you know. Yeah, good. But I just. But anyway, I just wanted to kind of get your take on that again."
},
{
"end_time": 1531.084,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1503.37,
"text": " I love Lou, I love the guy. If I had to jump in a foxhole, it would be with him. Yeah, that's for sure. You know, it doesn't have to do, but I'm sure there's this big consortium of, maybe that's sort of conspiratorial, but an effort going on, phasing the disclosure or whatever. Maybe that's the message there. There could be, I don't know, conspiracies have occurred and likely are occurring, whether or not there's one here."
},
{
"end_time": 1548.387,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1531.51,
"text": " I didn't really mean to say the word conspiracy in the same sentence. It doesn't matter. I don't hold a negative view toward religion. I see it as extremely positive."
},
{
"end_time": 1575.913,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1548.848,
"text": " To have an open mind and to be doubtful, doubtful, doubtful, that's an extremely dangerous mindset. And I know because, well, I've been to certain places mentally and it's extreme. People who say, oh, you should doubt, you should doubt. You have no idea. You have no idea how you're so lucky. It's like you're encased in armor and someone's attacking you and you say, oh, look how protected I am without recognizing that it's because you're shielded by"
},
{
"end_time": 1599.428,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1577.176,
"text": " Well, regardless, the point is that I don't say conspiracies hold no water, and I also don't think religion should be as disdained as it is. There's a huge, huge benefit to saying, here's what is the case, and I believe there's a man I pray for belief. I think people who don't, they haven't taken their own thoughts seriously. I think people who say, oh, the multiverse and simulation hypothesis and"
},
{
"end_time": 1620.316,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1599.838,
"text": " And whatever else they're writing with their pens on paper, they're treating it so clinically and they don't believe it. They don't take their own ideas seriously. I think if they did they would be horrified, horrified, horrified. Anyway, the point is that conspiracies occur. It's dangerous also to think that whatever is occurring is a conspiracy because that's"
},
{
"end_time": 1641.613,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1620.811,
"text": " Hopefully that's self-evident. It also seems to be clear that conspiracies did occur, and it would be unwise to think that they're not occurring. So I don't care if the word conspiracy is said. That's what I'm getting at. I know that you want to be a bit more careful with your words, but you're not saying that there is a conspiracy. You're conjecturing, and that's fine."
},
{
"end_time": 1670.811,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1642.671,
"text": " Well, and leading up to my next question, and you kind of hit on it earlier about consciousness. It was actually one of our viewer questions. And I know this, we can talk two hours on this, so I'm going to try to let you just speak on this. I might just say one thing about consciousness. It's always felt to me that consciousness was a combination of physical and"
},
{
"end_time": 1702.5,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1672.961,
"text": " I'm a very physical person. I believe that's why I love the field that you're in, physics, because I believe that there's not a lot of woo here and that this planet was created for us to be sort of like a sandbox and that maybe consciousness is our only path to the Creator. So I have this weird thing about consciousness, so I could talk about it all day."
},
{
"end_time": 1728.899,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1702.637,
"text": " But Elena Campbell had, that was her question. Basically just what do you think it is? What do you think about it? So Elena, is that like an audience member or is that your wife or? No, she was, she's sort of, she's on, basically I met her at the UAP Society Discord."
},
{
"end_time": 1757.807,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1729.462,
"text": " And then she was helping us with a little think tank, a little project team that I had going. And so I know her as a result of the phenomena, really. Okay, so if Elena's question is, what do I think of consciousness? Elena, I apologize. That's such a broad question. I don't know what to make of it. It's akin to, what do you make of religion or what do you make of movies?"
},
{
"end_time": 1773.865,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1758.268,
"text": " I don't know which movie and what part of it and what aspect. So I also don't think, Elena, that anyone knows the answer to that. There are different theories as to what consciousness is on the physical side. There are neuro correlates as to whether or not those are causal. That's another issue."
},
{
"end_time": 1795.026,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 1774.292,
"text": " So that is, and then there are different, there's global neuronal workspace, there's integrated information theory, there's different computational approaches and whether or not it's a feedback process that's substrate independent and so on, but this is just jargon for people who are unfamiliar. So I don't know, all I would say is that I'm studying it and I don't know"
},
{
"end_time": 1823.865,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 1795.026,
"text": " It's unclear, and then I think Michael Levin said that in university, one has consciousness studies, it's a growing field, it's burgeoning, but it's there, but it's not consciousness studies, because true consciousness studies is a first-person activity, it's not third. It may be like, if I can give an analogy, a physics analogy, there's a, imagine you have a globe, turns out that you cannot map a globe with one chart. So that is, if you were to take a map of the globe, it's going to miss at least one point of the globe."
},
{
"end_time": 1850.862,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 1823.865,
"text": " it has to. So that's a that's a theorem in differential geometry that says that if you have a sphere you cannot cover it with one chart. That's why we get the skewed content sizes. I know what you're saying. You need two charts. You need at least two charts. Okay, then those charts overlap so there's compatibility on those. Then there's something called a compatibility condition where those two charts overlap. So maybe"
},
{
"end_time": 1859.445,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 1851.203,
"text": " The physical and the mental world, if we can even split it into those domains, are akin to that. That they're mapping the real world, which is the sphere,"
},
{
"end_time": 1884.872,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 1860.64,
"text": " one is the physical and then the other is a mental and the physical cannot fully encompass the mental and vice versa but there is a compatibility condition which is why we can see these neural correlates which is why there's almost certainly a relationship between the brain and consciousness but yet we can't grasp it completely nor can we from our own intuition derive all of the physical laws yeah and that's and that's why this is why i'm careful to say"
},
{
"end_time": 1909.343,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 1885.606,
"text": " whether I believe something or think something. Cause I can believe in this. I believe that, um, basically what you just said, and that, that, that, that is really the only, that coupling is our only connection to the creator. Everything else is a sand, you know, the earth is a sandbox, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 1937.056,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 1909.753,
"text": " Now, people will say, and this is where I differ with people who think it's a simulation, which I think is a silly thing, but I try to listen, you know, try to be sympathetic, empathetic. And this leads up to our next question about free will. And, you know, I've always thought that we've had free will to roam"
},
{
"end_time": 1957.671,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 1937.449,
"text": " in the sandbox and people may some people may think that's not a big enough place to have free will like the planet was created for us we you know we were created by the creator and and given the free will right and some people would just look back at that say oh the earth is a simulation"
},
{
"end_time": 1973.302,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 1958.148,
"text": " Maybe the maybe that condition is, you know, I don't call it simulation because I believe in a creator, you know, create the earth and the universe. Right. So, but within that, you know, at one time we had plenty of"
},
{
"end_time": 1993.626,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 1973.302,
"text": " Space and we still do right we can fit All humans in Texas or whatever that statistic is we still have lots of places to roam and be free And we have free will on earth and that's good enough for this life You know what? Anyway, I rambled a little bit there. Sorry. What do you think about?"
},
{
"end_time": 2012.637,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 1994.036,
"text": " I don't think that free will, you see, the standard account, the standard materialist account is to say that free will doesn't exist. This is not just materialism. So I think Bernardo Castro, who's an idealist, also doesn't think free will exists."
},
{
"end_time": 2042.21,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2012.637,
"text": " I don't know how one can come to a decision so adamantly. It's unclear. So here's an example. Roger Penrose, even Roger Penrose, a physicist, one of the most brilliant people on the planet, says he thinks free will exists. It's just not able to be defined nor modeled. We have an intuition as to what it is. Currently, it escapes our physics. It has something to do with the active component of consciousness. But what it is, precisely, we don't know. We experience it on an almost moment-to-moment basis."
},
{
"end_time": 2068.422,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2042.705,
"text": " But as soon as we try to grasp it, it's like water. It just goes through our fingers, but it doesn't mean the water is not there. Then there's also physical reasons. Well, I have to be delicate with my words. There's something in physics called determinism, which means that the conditions later in time are exactly calculable from something farther back. That's somewhat true."
},
{
"end_time": 2093.404,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2068.524,
"text": " Okay, sorry, that's somewhat true. That's almost the definition of determinism. However, even in Newtonian mechanics, there's non-determinacy. So people will say in Newtonian mechanics, in classical mechanics, Einstein mechanics and so on, that doesn't have to do with quantum mechanics. There it's a deterministic world. I'm sure you've heard Laplace's demon. If I knew all the positions of the molecules and the momentum, then I can calculate the universe at some future state."
},
{
"end_time": 2122.705,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2094.872,
"text": " Turns out that that's not true. So for example, there's Norton's Dome. This is a word or phrase people can look up. It's Norton's Dome. It's basically a solution to Newton's equations that are non-deterministic. So it means that determinism isn't actually baked into classical mechanics. People like to think so. So that means that even free will may be able to be saved there. Then there's people like Nicholas Gisson, who says that free will is a necessary precondition in order for us to even"
},
{
"end_time": 2150.452,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2123.08,
"text": " do science. So you use science to negate free will, but we use free will in order to say that science works. Okay, how does that work? Well, in order for you to determine whether a particular statement is reasonable, quote-unquote reasonable, you're using your free will. Now if you weren't, then you would just be using, you would have no basis to accept it. This is Nicholas Gisson's argument. This is not mine. I don't buy it completely. But all I'm saying is that"
},
{
"end_time": 2169.701,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2150.452,
"text": " There are extremely brilliant people on both sides, and it's not like the data is settled on this issue of free will. It also has extreme implications, extreme implications for us. So for example, Dostoevsky has this quote, I don't recall where it's from, but it's something like, this is long, if you don't mind me a minute and a half,"
},
{
"end_time": 2188.626,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2170.196,
"text": " Even if man were nothing but a piano key and this were proved to him by the laws of natural science and arithmetic, even then, man would not become reasonable but instead do something perverse out of sheer ingratitude simply to prove to himself"
},
{
"end_time": 2216.032,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2188.626,
"text": " that man is not a piano key. Now you may say that this too can be calculated and tabulated, the darkness and the curses and that reason would reassert itself. Well then man would go mad simply to rid himself of reason to prove to himself that man is not a piano key. Now you may scream that no one is touching my free will. All that you care about is that my free will accord with the laws of natural science and arithmetic and my own interest. Well good heavens gentlemen,"
},
{
"end_time": 2245.111,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2216.732,
"text": " What will be left of free will when it will all be tabulated and arithmetized, when it will all be a case of twice two makes four, twice two makes four without my will, as if free will meant that. So that's one of my favorite quotes from Dostoyevsky, which essentially is saying that, hey, you mess with someone's free will, you mess with the concept of free will to your own societal peril. Yeah, I think, you know, there's room for"
},
{
"end_time": 2266.357,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2247.756,
"text": " I think there's room for, it's like the analogy of the sandbox. If a sandbox was created, if I build a sandbox for my son, I put the sand and the toys in there, and I say you have to play in the sandbox for an hour,"
},
{
"end_time": 2283.49,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2266.869,
"text": " I've always been able to make whatever choices I wanted to make."
},
{
"end_time": 2311.664,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2283.882,
"text": " I wanted to be a professional football player when I was three years old, right? And I just didn't grow tall enough. I grew wide enough, but not tall enough. And then I wanted to be a scientist. My mother bought me microscopes. And we had a pond by our house. And we would go out and get this pond scum and look at Omivas and some things. But at some point, I made the choice, had the free will to decide."
},
{
"end_time": 2341.783,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2312.056,
"text": " I wanted to be, you know, going to, you know, doing design and build work. I think, so what if my choices were limited? You know, I still had a few choices. I think there actually weren't that limited. I probably limited them myself, you know. Yeah, there's something about, sorry, there's something about limitation and free will that coincide paradoxically, because the word free is there, which seems to imply"
},
{
"end_time": 2362.534,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2341.988,
"text": " free energy."
},
{
"end_time": 2386.152,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2362.534,
"text": " There has to be some component of being restricted in order for one to properly exercise the free will. For example, you choose dependent on your memory. If you had no memory, the free action would be arbitrary. There doesn't seem to be an arbitrariness about one exercising free will. It seems to have something to do with intent."
},
{
"end_time": 2399.48,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2386.391,
"text": " So the fact that you're limited to a particular height, to a particular geographical region, or a time period, and same with all of us, I don't see that as going against the concept of free will."
},
{
"end_time": 2423.746,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2400.316,
"text": " It's funny, it's just on a human level. Take a homeless person who can't seem to get ahead. Are they to just expect or accept that it was predetermined that they were to be homeless? Or do we allow them to think they can become something different?"
},
{
"end_time": 2450.674,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2424.258,
"text": " You know, that's the problem I have with people who think that free will doesn't exist is that it's really a presser of human, of the human spirit, right? I want people to think that they have, they can do whatever they want to do in life and they can. And there are a lot of people, there's a lot of examples of this, you know, and if life is too short, you know, to give people this idea that they don't have any free will,"
},
{
"end_time": 2476.561,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2451.032,
"text": " you know, and that they're stuck in their condition, you know, it's just, it's depressing to me. I think of those people as oppressives. What do the Scientologists call people oppressives? I think, you know, suppressives, whatever their term, I always thought that was a funny term, but I want people to have hope and know that they can"
},
{
"end_time": 2505.759,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2477.159,
"text": " I was, you know, I was a poor, we were brought up poor. I was born in Appalachians, you know, that's some of the poorest areas in the country, right? Dirt farmers, you know, and I didn't grow up thinking I was poor. I grew up thinking, how can I, you know, how can I improve myself? How can I do better? And I just, you know, you got to go do it, you know? And so I don't know how people justify when, when there's so many examples of that, how they justify"
},
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"text": " Razor blades are like diving boards. The longer the board, the more the wobble, the more the wobble, the more nicks, cuts, scrapes. A bad shave isn't a blade problem, it's an extension problem. Henson is a family-owned aerospace parts manufacturer that's made parts for the International Space Station and the Mars Rover."
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"text": " Now they're bringing that precision engineering to your shaving experience. By using aerospace-grade CNC machines, Henson makes razors that extend less than the thickness of a human hair. The razor also has built-in channels that evacuates hair and cream, which make clogging virtually impossible. Henson Shaving wants to produce the best razors, not the best razor business,"
},
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"index": 106,
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"text": " So that means no plastics, no subscriptions, no proprietary blades and no planned obsolescence. It's also extremely affordable. The Henson razor works with the standard dual edge blades that give you that old school shave with the benefits of this new school tech. It's time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that'll last you a lifetime."
},
{
"end_time": 2594.138,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2566.613,
"text": " Visit HensonShaving.com slash everything. If you use that code, you'll get two years worth of blades for free. Just make sure to add them to the cart. Plus 100 free blades when you head to H E N S O N S H A V I N G dot com slash everything and use the code everything. Kind of. You know. Put that on people that they have no free will."
},
{
"end_time": 2619.667,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2594.855,
"text": " But I've always thought, I've got to be careful because that question out there alone is what worked a couple hours, isn't it? But let's see, let me look here and see. I've got these two monitors and one's getting in front of the other. I was trying to figure out what good segues are. By the way, I also don't think that having free will goes against the idea that"
},
{
"end_time": 2638.951,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2619.667,
"text": " one can be unduly and negatively restrained by their environment. So, for example, I think that one of my ethos, one of my values, or something that I think is that the quality of a society is the way that the populace treats the homeless people. No, not necessarily the governments."
},
{
"end_time": 2657.329,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2639.241,
"text": " Because that's the easy route is to say the government should take care of the homeless and I think that they should but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't show compassion and I think that there's a great line in the Bible like woe to the person who has something to give in dozens. I think that we should not look down at homeless people and we should be generous and kind"
},
{
"end_time": 2683.336,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2657.329,
"text": " and bestowing and helpful and loving and warm and merciful and to see how the heck you could be in that situation easily you're so so lucky that you're not or they're so unlucky there's similar framing so I think that people who haven't had an addiction or people who don't have friends they have no clue what it's like to have an addiction or concomitantly have no friends there's the study with rats"
},
{
"end_time": 2700.657,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 2683.336,
"text": " Where if you give rats cocaine, then they continually do so, even neglecting food, and they'll do so until they die. However, that happens with single rats in cages, but if you put them with a group and you give them access to cocaine, they'll do it every once in a while, like they'll have a party, but they won't sacrifice food for it."
},
{
"end_time": 2729.889,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 2701.749,
"text": " And that implies that the social environment has such a role to play in addiction and into homelessness, and it's a terrible, terrible state. You hear people who, maybe they're not homeless, maybe that's not the right term, but they're not well, and they walk around the street and they scream, and it's almost never, never a positive statement. It's never, oh, this is wonderful, I love you all. It's something, go after yourself and take a knife into your vagina. It just shocks you,"
},
{
"end_time": 2757.995,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 2729.889,
"text": " hold on to your wife or you give them a wide berth as you cross the street or you try not to look at them because you don't want to acknowledge that that could be you or you don't want to acknowledge that you don't want them to look well it's a sad sad state and sure it could be their fault who cares who cares so all of our problems almost all of our problems are a fault to some degree the compassion should always be given anyway so that's me saying that even if one is to believe in free will it doesn't mean"
},
{
"end_time": 2771.766,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 2758.831,
"text": " that one should just neglect those who are on I don't want to say on the underside of society because that implies that they're beneath us in some way but financially they are and mentally they seem to be it's not a pleasant place"
},
{
"end_time": 2795.026,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 2772.244,
"text": " and I also think free will is necessary for them to get themselves out of that position too psychologically because if they're told like it's twin it's not free will therefore you stay in your lower position socially it's free will plus generosity plus mercy plus warmth anyway that's my little aside just so that I'm not misinterpreted as saying I don't believe that"
},
{
"end_time": 2822.108,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 2796.647,
"text": " Sorry, I've lost my train of thought, but hopefully you understand. No, I do. And I appreciate that because it, you know, we can have our philosophy and our, you know what I mean? We can have, we can have these conversations, but when it comes down to it, we really should treat other people the way we want to be treated. You know, I think if we get too much too deep into that mindset of, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 2850.998,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 2822.585,
"text": " You know, there's no free will. It doesn't matter what I do in life. To me, I think simple observation gives us the answer that we have free will. But some people would say you're just zooming in too close to a certain condition and you've made these choices but in the end you'll have the same result."
},
{
"end_time": 2879.172,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 2851.51,
"text": " The easiest way to dispel the materialist account of lack of free will is to get them to point out where the distinguishing, where you and the world is distinguished. So what's distinct between you and the world? It's not clear because your electrons overlap with the electrons in the Sun. So technically you are the world. I'm not saying this is the case. I'm saying this is a spiritual way of interpreting materialism or physicalism. And Raymond Smullian who's a mathematician said,"
},
{
"end_time": 2900.725,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 2879.684,
"text": " Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 2915.435,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 2900.981,
"text": " Sorry, I was, sometimes I get so engrossed in a thought, I don't make a very good host. Oh, no, that's fine. Hey, man. Yeah, yeah. Because I'll be thinking, I'm like, that's a that's an awesome thought."
},
{
"end_time": 2931.237,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 2917.398,
"text": " I mean, there was a couple of, and really, I should have saved that one for last because that's a great subject because it touches on so many, so much on the human condition that it's kind of awesome."
},
{
"end_time": 2956.578,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 2932.142,
"text": " I guess if you don't mind me asking you about a couple of my little pet peeves and signs. One of the things about being my age is that I grew up with the development of the internet. For 40 something years, I've been influenced by"
},
{
"end_time": 2984.224,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 2957.056,
"text": " knowledge that comes out of this machine at me. And so some of the things that annoy me and maybe they just, I hate to use you to confirm anything that I think, but I do respect your knowledge. And so I wanted to take just a minute to talk about one of the, what I consider myths is time travel."
},
{
"end_time": 3010.384,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 2984.224,
"text": " and Just do it one little quick thought experiment and then you can you can say that it's true or false Or what do you think about it? Okay, and it's a very common But I think sometimes we just need to go back to basics, right? We need to say if if I you know if I jump on a space a rocket and I'm traveling near the speed of light away from Earth and"
},
{
"end_time": 3024.411,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3011.032,
"text": " Time for me slows down. Time remains relative for me, but it is actually slowing down. The closer I reach to speed of light."
},
{
"end_time": 3053.456,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3025.845,
"text": " and the time on earth remains ticking the same, right? So, if I turn around and come back, I feel like less time has gone by for me than it has for the people on earth. It's still now on earth, and it's still now for me. So I haven't really time traveled. I've just"
},
{
"end_time": 3082.671,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3053.712,
"text": " I've just displaced myself from their relative to their time. I guess what bugs me is when people talk about time travel is if you can just zip back and forth. Does that question even make sense? Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay, so with regard to, that's called the twin paradox, by the way. So you go off, Earth stays still, and then you come back. Oh, that's right, yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 3111.8,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3082.927,
"text": " There's not a satisfying explanation of it. Now you may say, well, the physicist may say, okay, it's simple. It's super simple. You just draw the space-time diagram. So that is, if people who are listening are mathematicians or physicists, then you draw a space-time diagram of what it's like for the Earth, and you just stay in the Earth's frame, just going up toward the center. Time is on the y-axis going upward, and then the rocket ship moves off, let's say, near 44, 46"
},
{
"end_time": 3122.722,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3112.125,
"text": " It's near 45 degree angle and then comes back and you draw a thick line there so that you can have a light clock because that's how you measure times with a light clock. That is to say that you have a"
},
{
"end_time": 3154.036,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3124.428,
"text": " I don't know how to explain this simply, but either way, you have a time-keeping device with you. To compare times only makes sense once you've come back together. So if you were to just go off, this is why the paradox is there, because if you just went off, whereas the other person stayed still, you don't know if they're moving away from you or if you're moving away from them. That's the whole point of special relativity, of relativity. It's that it's all relative. As soon as you come back, then you're able to compare. And then you look at the space-time diagrams and you see which one has more ticks of the clock or less ticks of the clock."
},
{
"end_time": 3171.715,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3154.377,
"text": " okay anyway there's a reason why i don't find that to be terribly satisfying but we can get into that after as for time travel it's not so out of the question so for example i've been toying with this idea that the past isn't fixed phenomenologically meaning from our experience so phenomenology is a"
},
{
"end_time": 3189.275,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3171.715,
"text": " branch of philosophy by this person named Husserl or Heidegger which essentially means take your experience as fundamental don't take the quote-unquote objective world take your experience that's what's first okay so phenomenologically it seems clear that the past isn't fixed because our memories constantly change we have a certain"
},
{
"end_time": 3207.261,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3189.445,
"text": " There also doesn't seem to be the idea of past because there's only the now. So it's not quite clear to me that what's objective should hold more water. Secondly, there's also solutions to Einstein's equations, such as the Gödel universe. So Gödel of the Gödel's incompleteness theorem, if people have heard about that."
},
{
"end_time": 3231.63,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3207.261,
"text": " which have closed time-like curves, and that is that you have time travel. And so one of the ways you get around time travel in physics is by stipulating there exists no closed time-like curves. But then what you've done is you've proven time travel doesn't exist by assuming it doesn't exist. I guess I was trying to eliminate the folding of spacetime. Hear that sound?"
},
{
"end_time": 3258.677,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3232.602,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
"end_time": 3284.838,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3258.677,
"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone."
},
{
"end_time": 3310.555,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3284.838,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
},
{
"end_time": 3318.439,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3310.555,
"text": " Go to Shopify.com slash theories now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in Shopify.com slash theories."
},
{
"end_time": 3347.21,
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"start_time": 3321.903,
"text": " scenario. I was just trying to do some basic, you know, out there back time dilation, right? And so we can test that, right? We've actually tested this. We've run experiments on the time dilation, right? Because we have measured the differences between astronauts as well, you know, right? Haven't we taken atomic clocks on our"
},
{
"end_time": 3361.237,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3347.21,
"text": " Space missions and we've compared them when they can come back. So I guess my my other my other point or question really is is that to me there is no big database in the sky or"
},
{
"end_time": 3388.37,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3361.476,
"text": " you know, the universe that records the past. Uh, and in the example that I just gave the twin, uh, paradox, um, as like you said, as I was traveling through space and coming back, we were still moving through space time. So the only effects, um, the only remnant that is there is our effects on"
},
{
"end_time": 3414.616,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3388.933,
"text": " space time that is behind us because we are moving in a direction right and that you can't go back to that point that so you can't travel backward in time and you really can't travel I can't just dial in a date well I guess I could Tony it would be unclear how one detects if one has traveled backward in time so could be that we have already it could be this is us"
},
{
"end_time": 3437.295,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3415.026,
"text": " How do we know? Because if you've undone it, we don't know. So in some ways it's unfalsifiable. There's also the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics, which isn't talked about much, which is Richard Feynman's interpretation, which has time going in both directions. I think he precludes the past by saying we only observe the forward one."
},
{
"end_time": 3455.213,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3437.534,
"text": " However, the backward one does occur. I need to study this some more and I'd like to do an episode on that. But there is the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics and then there is time revert. I'm just throwing out. It sounds like Balderdash to people who did it, but I'll throw out words because some people who watch are"
},
{
"end_time": 3478.848,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3455.691,
"text": " time reversal symmetry, there's something called CPT symmetry. I also don't think that our conception of time is developed enough to answer such a question. So the reason I say that is because, well, firstly, this is not a controversial statement. This is Carlo Rovelli is opining on what time is. He's a physicist. Lee Smolin is still on this. Like this is not"
},
{
"end_time": 3507.978,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3479.36,
"text": " It sounds like a woo statement but it's not. I have a podcast with this podcaster named Generation Z, his name is Dave. The word time has existed before physicists and then physicists came along and said let me measure one aspect of this time that you refer to and then we now think that that time is all of what time should be."
},
{
"end_time": 3522.244,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3508.422,
"text": " Sticking to like a timeline, help me keep this simple for me. If I were to, for me, I don't think of it in almost terms because as"
},
{
"end_time": 3552.995,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3524.633,
"text": " The now is traveling through space-time. So I'm not back at that point anymore. I'm at a different point. So how can I go to a point? And let me ask you this. If I was able to go back to a point, there would be no way to travel fast enough to get back to the point, the current now, because I couldn't travel faster than okay. So then we get into a lot of the relativity questions. But I'm just saying"
},
{
"end_time": 3580.981,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3554.121,
"text": " Without the Woo, to me, it doesn't seem like, you know, it doesn't seem practical. You know, maybe I just have a limited amount of knowledge on the subject, but I'm just thinking of it on the scale or the timeline scale, right? If I go back, you know, Earth, all of nature is still moving down the timeline. There's nothing there. The only thing there, let's say,"
},
{
"end_time": 3608.643,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3581.254,
"text": " You can't even get in front of the light that we emitted because you can't travel faster than light to get in front of it, to look back at it. Yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying. I would just say that keep in mind, physics becomes overturned every, well, it's happening less and less, but it becomes overturned every 60, 70 years or so. So even faster than light travel is not out of the question. So this Frederick Schuller,"
},
{
"end_time": 3634.019,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3608.916,
"text": " who has a great lecture on faster than light matter. And he says, people think all of science would have to be overturned. No, you just go back to the formalism and there's a different kind of light cone. It expands slightly larger. And we can even write down how faster than light matter would have to propagate or what conditions it would have to follow. So all of this is to say, I don't know, we're so young with it."
},
{
"end_time": 3657.193,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3634.019,
"text": " hear that sound."
},
{
"end_time": 3684.326,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 3658.183,
"text": " That's the sweet sound of success with Shopify. Shopify is the all-encompassing commerce platform that's with you from the first flicker of an idea to the moment you realize you're running a global enterprise. Whether it's handcrafted jewelry or high-tech gadgets, Shopify supports you at every point of sale, both online and in person. They streamline the process with the Internet's best converting checkout, making it 36% more effective than other leading platforms."
},
{
"end_time": 3710.435,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 3684.326,
"text": " There's also something called Shopify Magic, your AI-powered assistant that's like an all-star team member working tirelessly behind the scenes. What I find fascinating about Shopify is how it scales with your ambition. No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. Join the ranks of businesses in 175 countries that have made Shopify the backbone"
},
{
"end_time": 3736.135,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 3710.435,
"text": " of their commerce. Shopify, by the way, powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including huge names like Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn. If you ever need help, their award-winning support is like having a mentor that's just a click away. Now, are you ready to start your own success story? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash theories, all lowercase."
},
{
"end_time": 3765.043,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 3736.135,
"text": " I often thought that black holes were a gateway to other universes and that we can gain information and that the plasma, the information that's being spit out of the center,"
},
{
"end_time": 3794.514,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 3765.333,
"text": " the jets or maybe information from other universes or something. So it's not like I don't have an imagination. It's just that I have this yearning, this desire to stay grounded in some way. And I just want to tell people, try it. Show me how you do it. Don't just talk about it. And most people honestly don't have the ability. And I understand that I don't have the ability to"
},
{
"end_time": 3815.077,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 3795.06,
"text": " All I can do is think of it on a linear basis. I know that's very elementary. But I like to think that entropy is a thing and that the me that is now is obviously"
},
{
"end_time": 3840.947,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 3815.452,
"text": " Breaking down over time. And so I don't know how you I don't know how you can justify the entropy with traveling to the past, you know. I mean, even if even if, you know, I understand. But so you've eased you've eased my thinking. All I'm saying is that our understanding of"
},
{
"end_time": 3869.497,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 3842.244,
"text": " not only physics, but the universe, ourselves, and so on, is extremely, I could say rudimentary, but then also you could say there's the opposite view of the more eastern end, which is that you have arrived already, you know everything, stop it. This is more nonsense being generated by, one of my favorite quotes is by T.S. Eliot, which says, and at the end of all our exploring, we'll be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
},
{
"end_time": 3898.166,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 3869.497,
"text": " I think that's one of the ways that one can recover a sense of realness, by the way, because, as you know, we have this sense of, this is solid, but then you look with a microscope and then you see, well, the atoms are spaced so far apart, it's an illusion, the ego is an illusion, etc., etc. This world is an illusion. I think that it goes through a phase. I think that if one is still trapped in that illusory phase, one hasn't progressed. So there's the real phase where you just take everything for granted, your child,"
},
{
"end_time": 3925.299,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 3898.166,
"text": " and then you go through a horrible debilitating phase. But then I think that the stories, and Diana Posilka seemed to allude to this, or actually directly reference it, that the story of ancient people is to go through Plato's cave, to exit it, say, oh my gosh, those were just shadows on the wall, I thought they were real, but then to come back and realize the reality of it, that there's actually something real about it, and all this talk about illusory free will and illusory ego and illusory world,"
},
{
"end_time": 3953.558,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 3925.299,
"text": " I think that's just step two. I think step three is to come back and to say, actually, no, there is solidity here. So for example, Bernardo Castrop would say, it's not idealism that says all of this is in your head. That's materialism. Materialism is the one that says you're projecting all of this. Idealism, at least his version of idealism, says that you're a mind inhabiting this world. Your folk sensations, your ordinary sensations of solidity is real."
},
{
"end_time": 3978.439,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 3953.951,
"text": " You then go through this scientific process of undoing it, but actually what's most real is your experience of it. And there's some more subtleties to it. But anyway, I think that to me demonstrates that progression. You grow up feeling this rock is solid, then you go and it's undermined by science and physicalism. And if you take it seriously, well, you're going to... Good luck to you if you take it seriously."
},
{
"end_time": 4006.749,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 3978.933,
"text": " Anyway, then you eventually, if you're lucky, you can come back to a place where you say, you know what, this is real. I have free will, or at least I have something akin to free will. There is an ego. There is solidity here. It may not be the initial conception, but there's something there and maybe more real than the original realness. You may come back and feel like, oh my gosh, man, I have such a loose grip on reality for a while, but now I'm starting to feel like I'm in a better place. This is more real."
},
{
"end_time": 4033.404,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4006.749,
"text": " This is more real than when I was a child. And this is more loving than when I was a child. I have a feeling love has something to do with it. I have a feeling that what's real is loving. Now that's absolutely strange for someone who studies math and physics to say. But I can speak nebulously for a while. Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, the thing is, it's like I said, we're kind of stuck in this big sandbox."
},
{
"end_time": 4057.602,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4033.814,
"text": " We can think of, you know, if a big boulder falls on my head, I can say, you know, wow, that boulder has atoms that are so far apart that I can't, you know, I'm going to get squished. And then maybe in my next life, I'll be able to brag about, you know, think on terms of"
},
{
"end_time": 4078.217,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4058.131,
"text": " I think that's a dangerous part of our society is to venerate the objective to such a degree that we neglect the utility of what we're doing. So it's rare that a scientist, let's say a programmer at Google will think, well, what the heck am I creating?"
},
{
"end_time": 4104.531,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4078.66,
"text": " Let me step back. Let me resign firstly or secondly. It's rare that that happens. We think in terms of interest and objectivity and we have this assumption or at least we tell ourselves, well, whatever we're studying objectively will eventually provide flourishment. That's not clear. In fact, it seems clear that that's not the case with the invention of atomic bombs and potentially illnesses that can wipe out our entire civilization."
},
{
"end_time": 4133.712,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4104.531,
"text": " And I'm no economist, but I don't think there's an economist who would say that our financial system doesn't have its perils and that it's dubious and that it can go, it can be extremely deleterious for a large portion of the audience. Sorry, a large, well, a large portion of the audience, sure, and a large portion of the population. So it's not clear to me that let's just study whatever it is objectively and remove ourselves. Let's be dispassionate about it. It's not clear to me that that's good. I don't think that"
},
{
"end_time": 4163.626,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4134.65,
"text": " scientists would say that it's good, I think that they act sometimes, irresponsibly, by not stepping back and saying, well, is what I'm doing producing a positive effect or not? These are hard discussions to have in an hour and a half, aren't they? I was looking at the questions from those who submitted them. I think we could go through"
},
{
"end_time": 4182.551,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4164.07,
"text": " If you had to go back, this was Jess. He submitted through the Think Tank website."
},
{
"end_time": 4204.462,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4182.927,
"text": " Okay, sure. It would be about having a goal in mind."
},
{
"end_time": 4229.599,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4204.838,
"text": " So for example, when studying, don't just try to memorize, let's say some theorem, Barrett's Reconstruction Theorem, if you're trying to understand SO10. So these are physics terms. Learn what you have to learn as steps to some goal. Don't just go and learn because you're told you should know so-and-so. So that's one. Another one would be to, well it's difficult because it's easy for me to say that"
},
{
"end_time": 4258.251,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4229.599,
"text": " marriage is extremely sacred and there's something wonderful about it and that sex isn't trivial and that me breaking women's hearts because I had mine so damaged and I was so hurt that it's no way to live and you'll cut off so many parts of your life because of that. Just don't fall prey to that. Meet odium with love. Settle down, perhaps even. Though you don't have to settle down, just meet that rancor with"
},
{
"end_time": 4278.643,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4258.763,
"text": " Something positive. But it's easy for me to say because I have some perspective. It's not as if, well, none of us are, but I have perspective. It's unclear to me if one has to live through a path in order to see that the lesson, sometimes it's unclear to me that one can suggest a lesson to someone who hasn't gone through a path already."
},
{
"end_time": 4295.623,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4279.923,
"text": " Yeah, one of my funny little beliefs is that when we were created, there was this DNA blocker that our children have that don't"
},
{
"end_time": 4324.65,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4295.947,
"text": " doesn't allow them to learn from their parents. You know, like I can't, you can't pass down, but they have to, they have to obtain their own knowledge, right? Because it seems like we would have evolved so much quicker if, if, uh, if our children had, had, uh, of course, I guess that goes the opposite way too. Maybe it's a protection mechanism against ignorance. I don't know, but, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 4352.807,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4325.759,
"text": " Alexei, and I'm not being fair to Alexei because he had several questions and I just picked one at random. And I think we may have answered, you may have talked about this already. Do you think UAPs are extraterrestrials or from secret projects? His other question was a lot more, I have to give him credit, complicated. I don't know. I don't know. I'm undecided on that."
},
{
"end_time": 4378.814,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4355.384,
"text": " Okay, yeah, I'm sorry like say we kind of talked about that earlier Walker During the introduction of an interview with Lou I'm sorry that was his name was Walker. I'm sorry during the introduction of an of an interview with Lou Kurt says read between the lines on what Lou says what Kurt"
},
{
"end_time": 4407.005,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4379.599,
"text": " Now he has time to process it. Discern from Lew's comments and breadcrumbs on the UAP phenomenon and our origins and evolution. That's a tough question to even read. I don't know how you're going to answer it. Do you remember that interview? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not bright enough or informed enough to read between the lines. Oh, that's not a Freudian slip."
},
{
"end_time": 4437.159,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4408.763,
"text": " So I don't know. Yeah, I think there's a quality to that because I tend to like to study people and sometimes I think that what I'm learning, what I'm reading between the lines is incorrect. And so it's probably, you know, you think it might be a good trait, but it's probably, I like the objectivity behind, like, you know, not necessarily making the assumptions."
},
{
"end_time": 4463.797,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4437.619,
"text": " It's akin to reading poetry in a sense, hopefully it's more concrete than that, but there are wrong ways to read poetry and the reason you know this is that we don't all get A's when we submit our poetry essays in school. It seems to be something that distinguishes high quality analysis and low quality analysis. And same in universities, otherwise they wouldn't give out grades at all."
},
{
"end_time": 4483.473,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4464.77,
"text": " So there seems to be better, maybe not wrong, but better or less better or more suited or less suited ways of interpreting. It's not an easy task. What we have are these intimations and we have nubilist data, bleary conjectures and they contradict with one another. So we have a sense that"
},
{
"end_time": 4513.78,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4484.258,
"text": " a sneaking suspicion that something is there, almost all of us has that, that there's more to this subject than meets the eye. We feel it in our guts and we're each taking a large gamble that there's more to this and it could be that there's not. That's what we're doing. I have tremendous respect for Lou. So when I said that that's not a Freudian slip, I meant that. I hope that that's not taken out of context. It's not easy to do. Yeah, I mean, it's different if you're, you know, if somebody comes up to you and says,"
},
{
"end_time": 4538.08,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4514.019,
"text": " Oh, it's a great day. You know, and you're reading between the lines and you think, oh, he doesn't really think it's a great day because, you know, he said, oh, it's a great day. Then that's different from, you know, you're having a conversation with Lou who has, um, you know, limitations on what he can say, what he can't, you know, what he can and can't say. Right. So he,"
},
{
"end_time": 4568.456,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4540.282,
"text": " He's automatically at a disadvantage, he can't say probably everything he wants to say. Luz is in such a terrible position, a position that I don't envy, because I believe he has knowledge that he can't come out and talk about, whether or not that's been given to him as false information, whether or not it's, well, whatever, he has some knowledge that he can't speak about and we assume that it's knowledge about UFOs and that it's about"
},
{
"end_time": 4597.329,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4568.865,
"text": " We have assumptions about what the knowledge could be, and we desperately want him to reveal it. And so we look and we know, this person knows more about this subject, but he can't say it. So maybe he's leaking information in subtle ways to escape the legalities. He could be. It's tricky. We don't know. He may be. We don't know. And I'm, like I mentioned, I'm not astute enough, I'm not knowledgeable enough to"
},
{
"end_time": 4626.886,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4597.671,
"text": " to perform an interpretation. I allow or I allow or the community decocks for their own and then I get to take a look and I formulate some of my own ideas but it changes. There's all and this is kind of a minor point and I'm not speaking of Lou. I'm just saying people who have worked in the intelligence agencies also again this is not Lou. Don't everybody jump on me. I love Lou okay. I love the guy but people like him"
},
{
"end_time": 4647.005,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4627.244,
"text": " have certain jobs of creating certain, that is their job to create the breadcrumbs and to get you to try to read between the lines and they're trying to influence what you're trying to read between the lines. That's what counterintelligence is."
},
{
"end_time": 4676.084,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 4648.114,
"text": " I'm not saying lose practice. No, I understand what you're saying. I understand. I'm saying if that's why you can't, that's why you, you know, you wouldn't have to be a 3d chess expert to even start to go there. So it's probably best that we don't make those assumptions. I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah, I agree. I agree in that. Sorry, let me be clear about what I'm agreeing to. I agree that one can drive themselves mad, actually mad."
},
{
"end_time": 4702.961,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 4676.783,
"text": " Putting up newspaper clippings on the wall, putting pins in them and drawing red pointers between them, like the detective trying to find patterns that will allow them to catch a serial killer when the data is so scant. And this is simple. This is from statistics. Everyone knows this. If you have just a few data points, you can't draw a line. You don't even know if it's a line that you're supposed to draw. Is it a curve? What kind of curve? It's called curve fitting, which are what you don't want to do."
},
{
"end_time": 4732.824,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 4704.326,
"text": " Sorry, I was actually just giving Alexei's actual question and I screwed up. I may have subconsciously avoided it because I don't understand it. Do you think we orbit the center of all time and that human experience is limited by the factor of the speed of light? I don't understand the question either, Tony, so we're both in the same place."
},
{
"end_time": 4754.804,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 4734.411,
"text": " I think I've gathered some of his concepts, but honestly I would have to do much more study, spend many more"
},
{
"end_time": 4784.343,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 4755.196,
"text": " Hangouts with Alexei on that one. Let's see, the last user presented question is, could you make a podcast explaining Maxwell's Heaviside Equations? He snuck in two questions. Did Louis Elizondo have anything to do with setting up that interview with Sal Pais? I'm sorry. Okay, I'll answer them in order. Number one, there are plenty of explanations out there already."
},
{
"end_time": 4813.387,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 4784.77,
"text": " on the heavy side equations and as for and so I can't do oh hey it's a great time I can announce this so I just announced this on Chris Leto's show which will come out Friday but anyway there's this youtuber called 3blue1brown by the way Tony when does this come out this is live but then are you taking it down and then editing I can if you want me to no no it's fine so you'll just leave this up I generally do yes that's fine okay so then this can be announced"
},
{
"end_time": 4843.746,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 4813.899,
"text": " There's a YouTuber called ThreeBlueOneBrown who's a YouTuber that gives math explainers beautifully done. Well, they make you weep looking at them because they take an extremely overwrought subject that's not explained well and then explains them such that you can understand them five years before you're supposed to. So let's say a fourth year undergrad concept when you're first year or high schooler. He did a contest last year and he said, you know, it would be great if there was more math explainer videos"
},
{
"end_time": 4863.37,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 4843.746,
"text": " animated perhaps, maybe it's a lecture, maybe it's of some sort of documentary, whatever, math explainer videos on YouTube. And to facilitate this or to encourage it, I'm going to make a contest. This is Grant Sanderson of 3Blue1Brown saying this. So why don't you all submit"
},
{
"end_time": 4882.381,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 4863.968,
"text": " to me your some idea for mathematics video and I'll feature them I'll even give a prize to the top five like a thousand dollars each so five thousand in total and he had a thousand submissions and they were it was wonderful the point is not to win the point is simply to push more content of mathematical explanations out there"
},
{
"end_time": 4904.445,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 4883.08,
"text": " And I thought, you know, that'd be great to do for physics and consciousness. So I emailed him and I said, would that be all right if I do because I don't want you to feel as if what I'm doing is treading too closely to your ground. And he said, just go for it. So in about one week or so, I'm going to announce officially, though here this counts, I'm going to announce on the Toe channel that there will be a physics and consciousness"
},
{
"end_time": 4934.343,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 4904.445,
"text": " contest for people to explain, take some advanced concept in physics. Now the Maxwell Heaviside equations aren't terribly advanced. You learned that as a second year student, perhaps, but some advanced physics concept and then explain it simply via animations, via a blackboard, via, I have some notes here which I can get to, or consciousness. I wanted to keep the rigor though, so perhaps it's a theory of everything that someone has, they can explain it in five minutes, twenty minutes, beautifully done with"
},
{
"end_time": 4951.493,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 4935.947,
"text": " Proper audio and video and submit it. Or it can be an ingredient to a toe. So for example, Wolfram's theory or loop quantum gravity, what are Ashtakar variables? That's the lecture two in loop quantum gravity."
},
{
"end_time": 4979.77,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 4951.92,
"text": " you can explain ingredients to a toe or a toe or consciousness or a side of consciousness like what's bernardo's analytic idealism explain that in five to ten minutes such that it's engaging such that it has the rigor and such that it's there's some other condition it's essentially the copycat version of three blue one browns mathematics contest but for physics slash consciousness you can choose physics or consciousness or some combination like penrose does"
},
{
"end_time": 5000.077,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 4980.162,
"text": " Anyway, when this person said, can I make a podcast explaining Maxwell's Heaviside Equations, well firstly, that exists, and then secondly, if someone wants they can create it, maybe they can go through Salvatore Pius' interview and put some animations to it and explain what the heck he's talking about. Ah, right, that's it."
},
{
"end_time": 5019.48,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5000.896,
"text": " I would add it, of course, I couldn't do any of that, but I would add that when people do that, try to be original, you know, and, and, and, you know, because there's a lot of, I'm not going to be mean and call it plagiarism, but people tend to copy and paste."
},
{
"end_time": 5042.944,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5019.991,
"text": " ideas you know those types of things and one of the reasons i was wanting to talk about and i forgot this honestly you know the human intellect earlier and about education was that i wanted to kind of challenge people like even like me who's who's just a design bill contractor to learn more keep learning because over the years i have absorbed things"
},
{
"end_time": 5059.087,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5042.944,
"text": " right and you can you just have to be consistent like that you know i try to learn something a little tidbit each you know i'll go try to memorize the periodic table or i'll try to you know try to understand the quarks and muons and gluons and"
},
{
"end_time": 5078.234,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5059.087,
"text": " I'll try to just go and pick one little concept and, you know, once a week, but that's kind of where I was going with the objectivity, you know, comments and trying to get people just inspire them to do that, even though they think they may not."
},
{
"end_time": 5108.626,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5078.626,
"text": " So there's this great quote from Wheeler that I frequently use as a refrain. Wheeler said,"
},
{
"end_time": 5128.439,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5108.626,
"text": " Jibberish."
},
{
"end_time": 5154.735,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5128.439,
"text": " Are they going to eat the parrot? Are you a parrot? Are they saying you're parroting someone? You have no clue. Later on you get another word and slowly and all what happens is generally is there will come a point where so much more makes sense. It may take one year where little makes sense, little more, little more and then it accelerates and then you have another plateau and then it accelerates. So just keep pushing through. Just get wet. I want to make a toe t-shirt. Just get wet."
},
{
"end_time": 5183.012,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5154.906,
"text": " I also want to make a toe t-shirt that says don't thrust or stop thrusting about how people thrust their toes, much like I'm sure occurs in your comment section or in the live chat where people have this point of view and they try to impose it upon others from their theory of everything. Don't thrust. Trust your toe. If you truly had a toe, you would be so much more calm about it. I was talking to someone, some spiritual guru about this topic, and he said, Kurt, if you were to ask the Dalai Lama about some grand metaphysical question,"
},
{
"end_time": 5205.828,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5183.012,
"text": " He would almost certainly say, I don't know. And he would just be calm about it. And he would just smile at you. He wouldn't be typing in all caps in the comment section. He wouldn't be saying authoritative statements. So you can take that as a sign that likely the person who's thrusting doesn't either trust their own toe or doesn't have a toe with humility."
},
{
"end_time": 5221.715,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5206.698,
"text": " One of the people I was following for a while was Sadguru when I was studying Jainism."
},
{
"end_time": 5248.251,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5222.432,
"text": " And I found the philosophy very interesting. And it reminded me of your quote from the Dalai Lama. It's awesome. I guess you balance that with, it's not that you're not thirsting for knowledge or that you're making an effort to learn. It's that when you encounter people, how do you treat them with that knowledge, right?"
},
{
"end_time": 5275.981,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5249.292,
"text": " There was a question that I didn't answer which is part two of I don't recall the person's name who asked about Sal and Lou Elizondo. That was Pat. So I can answer that directly. Lou had nothing to do with it. Sal reached out to me via email out of the blue and said that he liked the theories of everything podcast. He likes that it's fairly technical when it comes to physics and he wanted to explain his side. I would like to do"
},
{
"end_time": 5303.729,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5276.323,
"text": " A part two with Sal. It just depends on him. We're both too busy right now. I want to do it in person. He would like to flesh out some ideas with me in a peer-reviewed journal. That is to see if his ideas or certain components of his ideas stand up to rigor. And even if they don't, that's still worth publishing because you can publish a null result. Null results are powerful. No-go theorems, by the way, are some of the most powerful. So Weinberg and Witten have a famous no-go theorem."
},
{
"end_time": 5328.951,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5304.326,
"text": " about Gravitons, and maybe that would occur, but we'll see. I wish Lou had helped with that. I don't think Lou's helped with anything other than coming onto the program, but that's plenty, man. Lou, I'm so grateful for, because I know that he gets criticized, and every time he comes on, the praise doesn't matter. You probably, you know this just as much as myself and just as much as Lou, or probably nowhere near as much as Lou though, for me for sure, that it doesn't matter how much people praise you,"
},
{
"end_time": 5354.497,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5329.258,
"text": " the criticism sticks perhaps the criticism hurts more because there's praise like a rose with thorns hurts more than simply a thorny bush because you prize the rose and so you see the value that's encompassed by it and then you see the the praise for me is almost embarrassing or in some ways"
},
{
"end_time": 5376.596,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5355.247,
"text": " I don't like the criticism, but I expect it more than praise. If I get praise, it's like, please, thank you, but I don't deserve the praise. I do that because I'm always aware"
},
{
"end_time": 5398.387,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5376.954,
"text": " that I need to learn more. So that's why I'm trying to develop these little personal standards and I thought that's why I was bouncing questions off of you about objectivity and the scientific method and so on because I wanted to kind of be balanced as I go along. You helped me with concepts"
},
{
"end_time": 5418.507,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5398.387,
"text": " You know, on the time travel and not to be so opinionated about it. Also, we don't know what time is. I know that sounds strange for someone who studies physics, but it's not. Carlo Rovelli, Lee Smolin, like I mentioned, are constantly arguing about time. Julian Barber, same as the Janus point theory. Yeah, I got to get going, Tony."
},
{
"end_time": 5442.722,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5418.763,
"text": " Okay, well thank you, Kurt. I appreciate the time you gave me today. It was awesome and maybe in the future, not too soon, you could come back and we could do a roundtable with some people. I mentioned I aspire to emulate your note-taking habits, man, so thank you for showing me some of them. Do you have any last quick questions before I have maybe two more minutes?"
},
{
"end_time": 5470.418,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5442.722,
"text": " No, we, um, let me, I was going to ask, I was going to ask you to pick a number so that I could, uh, so I've got one, two, three, four, five. If you would just pick a number between one and five, that's going to be our winner on the people who's, who, uh, entered questions. Okay. So one, two, three or four or five. Okay. Can you tell me what number you think I have?"
},
{
"end_time": 5500.759,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5471.971,
"text": " Okay, I have two. I was going to be flipped out if you got it. No, I haven't done very well in the remote viewing experiments. I guess I'm a little skeptical. But I haven't done very well in the experiments that we've put out. So I'm going to check some of the comments before I go. Is that alright? No, go ahead please. I didn't want to run you off. I thought you were out of time."
},
{
"end_time": 5520.555,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5500.998,
"text": " Oh, yeah, I do have to get going soon. Okay, let me see. So Kurt M. Kurt M, by the way, there's someone named Kurt M. I keep thinking this person's not many people have Kurt with a C. Are you the Kurt J out there? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Someone said is Sal really that nice? Sal is inspiring how nice he is, at least to me."
},
{
"end_time": 5546.715,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5520.811,
"text": " Sound reminds me of a guy I grew up with who had Asperger's. I'm not saying he has Asperger's, I'm sorry. He just reminds me of a guy. You could ask him the depth of the Atlantic Ocean at a given coordinate and he could tell you. I love the guy, but I didn't mean to make that comparison. His mannerisms and his look even reminds me."
},
{
"end_time": 5564.753,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5546.954,
"text": " Yeah, I really appreciate your time and I don't know if there's any other comments out there you saw that you want to address, but"
},
{
"end_time": 5595.128,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5565.333,
"text": " I do appreciate it. I think it's important for people like us to get together. You know, I think there's too much, there's almost like this division of the classes, you know, and especially on the internet, there's the scientists and the workers and the, you know, and this and that. I like it. I like that you accepted this invitation and you came to speak to me. You are much more of a scientist than"
},
{
"end_time": 5614.838,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5595.538,
"text": " I think you underestimate your influence."
},
{
"end_time": 5634.514,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5615.077,
"text": " I mean, you've certainly inspired me to invite you and hope that you came and to spread whatever message you could about physics and science and learning and intelligence and consciousness. Thank you. That sharing of your time is really awesome. I appreciate it."
},
{
"end_time": 5652.602,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 5635.589,
"text": " And about this division of the classes on YouTube, I don't know if I would put it as such, but I do see something where, so this is a pre-announcement, I do see where people who are higher up than you in whatever it may be views, subscriber count,"
},
{
"end_time": 5679.377,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 5652.602,
"text": " Twitter followers that they tend to not even acknowledge you and partly that's because for me I'm MLS so I'm desirous I want to I'm a competitive person and I see that in others and I know that I because I see that in myself I know that I wish someone when I was struggling super struggling with YouTube still am to some degree but when I like let's say a year ago or two years ago that someone would just acknowledge me someone would say hey you should check out"
},
{
"end_time": 5695.947,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 5679.701,
"text": " I've emailed several people who are"
},
{
"end_time": 5725.435,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 5696.442,
"text": " higher up than me and they don't seem to want to meet anyway I thought you know what why don't I catalog my favorite channels that are 15,000 subscribers to zero so like maybe just up-and-coming creators in the same space as myself so math physics consciousness even UFOs and I highlight them in a video say if you like the Toe channel check out these small creators because I know what it's like to be struggling and have no one talk about you so tomorrow or the day after or so"
},
{
"end_time": 5754.326,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 5725.435,
"text": " you can expect a video where if you invite Tony you're doing well otherwise I would have I would have mentioned you man but you have like 70,000 subscribers so kudos to you it's and see I understand that I'm in a kind of in a different genre that's why I'm thanking you because most people wouldn't understand in those you know all right man well and honestly my channel is not as big as it appeared I had some success early on with 3d printing and I had some viral"
},
{
"end_time": 5776.886,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 5754.718,
"text": " You see, it's not really that's why numbers really don't mean much. Uh-huh. And, and you're, I mean, you're doing, I think a lot of people look at your channel and think you're doing great. And like, maybe they, maybe it's like, you don't, they don't think you need to help, you know, uh, maybe that's one of the, I don't know, but in any, in any event, I appreciate it. And again, I wish more people."
},
{
"end_time": 5798.916,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 5777.688,
"text": " I wish we could do more of this blending and I really appreciate it. That's why I have a different perspective of Lou. He obviously didn't have to say yes to come let me talk with him twice, you know, and so I, you know, that gave me the courage to just reach out to you and other people, you know, so I think it's awesome."
},
{
"end_time": 5827.073,
"index": 240,
"start_time": 5799.497,
"text": " Thank you. And if I just have one more, well, this is something similar to Promote, which is what we talked about before, that contest. I'm not sure what I'm calling it, a physics and consciousness contest. I'll come up with the name in a couple days. If you want to learn some subject, like I mentioned, Ashtakar variables, you're probably like, what the heck is that? Or loop quantum gravity, well, the Ashtakar variables you should know for loop quantum gravity. Or you want to learn loop quantum cosmology, or Yoshabok's idea of computation and consciousness."
},
{
"end_time": 5843.37,
"index": 241,
"start_time": 5827.671,
"text": " or what Noam Chomsky has to say about meaning. If you want to learn something, you can also create a video on that subject. Creating and teaching something to others is one of the easiest, quickest and most efficient ways of learning a concept."
},
{
"end_time": 5867.671,
"index": 242,
"start_time": 5843.746,
"text": " as well as you don't need to be the expert so there are two classes of videos one where you know far more and then you're just distilling it down but another where you know almost nothing and you're going through the process and you're saying well here is what i i've learned this but i'm still unsure about so and so here are the open questions i have this is as far as i know this is what i thought but then i read this and so on so you take people through the learning process that's another type of video that's extremely it's endearing"
},
{
"end_time": 5894.258,
"index": 243,
"start_time": 5867.671,
"text": " The only request I have is that sometime if you could do a video for people like me who are wanting to learn more, it would be like a basic, and it would be based on that level of intelligence, a basic reading list or any kind of resources that would be for"
},
{
"end_time": 5905.469,
"index": 244,
"start_time": 5894.48,
"text": " people who are working"
},
{
"end_time": 5934.394,
"index": 245,
"start_time": 5905.828,
"text": " I guess you've seen MIT's OpenCourseWare. I go there. That's a resource, just a simple free lectures from MIT. It's very interesting. But I think it would be cool to have something from you as like an outline for people who don't have physics degrees. Yeah. So I do have the video that I spent the most on on the Theories of Everything channels called the Crash Course on Theoretical Physics. It's aimed at a"
},
{
"end_time": 5947.995,
"index": 246,
"start_time": 5935.077,
"text": " Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe it's not practical."
},
{
"end_time": 5975.93,
"index": 247,
"start_time": 5949.087,
"text": " Also, I would say, Tony, you know far more than perhaps than you give yourself credit for. If you know about time dilation, you know about that it's related to going toward the speed of light. You know that there seems to be an inconsistency here. You know that, well, if I was to travel back in time, the Earth has moved. So how am I traveling? You have quite a wealth of knowledge already, and you're not formally trained in math or physics. So don't underestimate your own intelligence, man."
},
{
"end_time": 6003.302,
"index": 248,
"start_time": 5975.93,
"text": " I know, but I've been interested in this stuff my whole life and I've only acquired a certain amount of it. And so what I'm trying to get other people to do, even from this one experience is say, look, you can learn, you can learn, you can just make an effort. You can grasp those little concepts as you go along. It's like you were saying earlier, it builds on, eventually you'll learn the periodic table if you just keep at it."
},
{
"end_time": 6030.657,
"index": 249,
"start_time": 6004.275,
"text": " you know, I was inspired by my son. He learned the periodic table when he was like five years old, you know, for a, for a class in elementary school. And that was awesome. He inspired me, a five year old. So that's wonderful. But thank you. Thank you, Kurt. I appreciate your time. And, uh, it's been awesome. And, um, I appreciate yours. Thank you so much. Take care of me. Thank you."
},
{
"end_time": 6052.295,
"index": 250,
"start_time": 6033.114,
"text": " The podcast is now finished. If you'd like to support conversations like this, then do consider going to patreon.com slash c-u-r-t-j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l. That is Kurt Jaimungal. Its support from the patrons and from the sponsors that allow me to do this full time. Every dollar helps tremendously. Thank you."
}
]
}No transcript available.