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Inside the Mind of a Fraudster Who Outsmarted the System | David Srail
January 30, 2025
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Hi, I'm Jean Chatsky. You may know me as the host of the Her Money podcast or the financial editor of NBC's Today Show for 25 years.
It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home.
A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.
So I was just going to the racetrack basically. And so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us, really played it cool. And that's what a con man needs to do. Kind of worked his way in, but we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners and if he won, he would buy us around a drink. And Dave's like, Hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work?
I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby, because that's my thing. I'm in horse racing. And Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. OK, so that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on. And I'd see him talking to people, but everybody was Dave's friend at the office. This guy, everybody loved him.
Hey, this is Matt Cox and I'm going to be doing an interview with Dave Wheelhauer and we're going to be talking about a con man. So check out the check out the video.
Dave, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I got a little story to tell you. I know. So you contacted me. You said, hey, man, listen, I knew this guy. He was a con man. This is an insane story. And then we talked on the phone a couple of times. And you like you're not obviously the con man, but you were you ended up living with this guy and you were friends with him for how long? I lived with him for six months. Right. And I kind of watched the whole thing unfold.
I saw the tragic end when he skipped town in the end, but we'll get to that. And, but I, I just saw the way he manipulated people and it's a pretty amazing story. And it's, and this guy had known these people for six, seven years. So it's not like some guy that just came in someone's life, but he was a con man. So he was setting them all up on a long con. What happened? Like how, like, when did you ever find out like, you know,
Had he ever done this before? He'd done it before. Right. And then what? So then he comes into town. He starts over. He moves to Florida. Where had he lived before? Cleveland, Ohio. And he'd done it in Cleveland. Yes. What had he done there? He had ripped people off about over $150,000. Okay. And his parents had to pay to make the people whole. All right. So he moves to Florida, works for a commercial fisherman for a while.
Then he gets a job with ABN Amro. That's the amalgamated bank of Amsterdam, Rotterdam. They're like the fourth or fifth largest bank in the world. LaSalle Bank, if you're familiar with them, out of Chicago. OK, I'm not. Well, they were big back in the day. When was this? 2005. You're about to start your adventure. And I was going on a little venture of my own there. So it's 2005. I had just shattered my femur.
fallen off a roof. I'm a former financial advisor. Who does roofing? Well, I wasn't really a roofer. I had another way to make some money. I had friends that paint, so I was painting a roof. I wasn't actually a roof. I had a guy that I used to work with at Payne Webber, UBS. UBS Payne Webber said, I need my roof painted. The homeowners insurance association is coming after me.
So make a long story short. I gave him a quote. I didn't hear from him six months later. I come back. The tile breaks. I fall. I shatter my femur. I'm learning to walk again. And so I was just going to the racetrack basically at the Palm Beach Kennel Club. So you're not working? Not working. Staying with mom and dad.
Right. Mom taking care of me. Let me tell you something. When you wake up, see the beautiful sunrise, your body heals faster. They lived on the beach. It was great. So this was spring training 2005, my buddy, Jeff Cox, we call him Coxie. Uh, I've known him for years. He said, Hey, I'm going to bring Paul LaDuca by when he's a new Marlin. He got traded the year before to come up and hang out with us. So,
I'm hanging out with Paul and Coxie and there was this guy sitting in the corner, kind of kept to himself, had a bag of pens in his racing form, and slowly but surely, especially after Paul's wife went back to San Antonio, we were there Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
in a major league baseball, you have to play about five innings and then you can leave. And Paul had horses that he owned at the time. So he would drive from Jupiter to West Palm beach and watch him run. So I'm having a blast just hanging out with these guys, especially when they make $8 million a year and hanging out with Coxie and Paul. And so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us, really played it cool. And that's what a con man needs to do. Kind of worked his way in.
But we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners and if he won, he would buy us a round of drinks. And not that I'm an expert, but in my life, I've noticed if you want to be friends with a celebrity or be cool, don't ask him for anything. Don't ask for autographs. Don't be annoying. They want to be treated like something. Yeah. You know, just they want to be treated like a regular dude. Right. And so I used to be a sports agent.
And I had to, we would go to the second floor in this little cubby hole cafe because I wanted to keep Paul away from, I hate to call him riff-raff, but a lot of the people in the Kennel Club, they're just brutal. And, you know, they're probably Mets or Yankees fans and they're giving Paul grief because he plays for the Marlins. And I remember one guy saying, hey, LaDuke, I didn't know you're so short. And he'd say, yeah, but when I stand in my wallet, I'm a lot taller than you. So.
So anyways, time goes on and we just befriend this guy. He said his name's Dave, David Scott Srail. My name's David Scott Wilhauer. Hey, that's nice. He's from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm from Michigan. So he's a Buckeye, I'm a Wolverine, but he was just a super nice guy. And so then Paul was talking to him, Coxie's talking to him. So he kind of joined our little group for that month and a half every weekend.
in the spring of 05. So about April, Coxie and Paul, you know, the big club's going to go play at the old pro player stadium where the Dolphins play now. They've since moved to downtown Miami, but the Marlins played right out on the right by Calder race course. And so we were, I was thinking, Hey, I'm going to go, uh,
the racetrack and then I go see boys play baseball and Dave's like, hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work? And I was like, well, what do you do? He's like, well, it's a mortgage company. He's like, you'd be great selling mortgages. Like, man, I don't know anything about mortgage. He's like, listen, you start out as a temp and then
Eventually, if you do really well, they'll hire you on full time. I started as a temp. I make great money there. He said, you'd be great selling mortgage. If you were a stockbroker, you could be a mortgage broker. He's like, then you'll be close to your buddies down there. Right. And so when I say down there, it's about 50, 60 miles south of where we're at. So and I didn't have any other options at the time. And this guy is offering to let me live in his house on the beach. Right. And at first I was like,
Was he all right? He was a pretty cool dude. Eventually, I remember talking to Paul about it, and he's like, yeah, the guy's straight, why not? Just take him up on the offer, can't hurt. I interviewed, I got the job at ABN Amro, and I was selling second loans, and he locked home equity lines of credit. Their full-time people do first mortgages.
Every once in a while, it's a call center. I forgot to mention that it's inbound calls. So all you're doing is taking calls all day long. Right. And so it's like if you made, if I made commission on it, I'd be making silly money, but they paid me 15 bucks an hour and I've got to prove to them that I'm good enough to work full time. Right. So, and it was going great. And then like Dave would pay, we'd go out to dinner, he'd pay.
I'm thinking this guy's rolling, right? He must be really doing well, but he works in the, he didn't, he didn't sell loans. He did the, uh, quality control, uh, processor, the processing. Okay. He works in the processing department. And so, but he drove a nice convertible BMW and his house was right on Arizona street.
and Hollywood Beach. It was a little two-bedroom place. I mean, it needed some work, but it was a really cool place because you know what they say about real estate, the three most important things are location, location, and location. And this guy is 600 yards from the waves, right down on the beach. So it was a great location. So I'm living with my new friend working there, and I ended up doing really well. I was writing like 250 second loans or
home act lines of credit a month. Nice. But again, I'm getting calls and I've got a lot of them are LaSalle or Avian Amro customers. So their information comes up there. And so I've just fill in the blanks. Some people you had to turn them away. They got 5.25% and they want to refinance at five and you have to explain to them with closing. It just doesn't make sense with closing costs. So
Now, in the end, I was thinking, I don't think he wanted me to do well, and we'll get that figured out later on. I'll get your guys' opinion on that, because he had scams that he was working on, but I didn't know it at the time. So at ABN Amro, everybody would go out into Smoker's Alley. I didn't smoke, but
I just had to take a break because my back, my hip, blah, blah, blah. And I'd see him talking to people, but everybody was Dave's friend at the office. This guy, everybody loved him. And I remember one night, I think it's May, I'm waiting for him at the quarterdeck to have dinner. I'm like, dude, where are you? Someone's car didn't start. He stayed on behind to help him.
He was that dude at the office that helped the little old ladies. He'll help you move. He was that guy. I was like, this guy's unbelievable. You know, I know nobody's perfect and he showed some of his other qualities that weren't great, but you know, he's just a human being like the rest of us. So I remember he told me that a girl that he used to date, Avelina,
He introduced her to Travis. Travis is a mortgage broker. Avelina works in the office near him and they're good friends and they work at AB and Amro there. And I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby because that's my thing. I'm in horse racing and Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. At least don't include me. I'm like, why? He's like, eh, people have
You know, they think it's degenerate gambling, whatnot. He's like, please don't, don't say anything about me and horse racing and whatnot. He's like, just tell him to go antiquing. I'm like, there's no chance I'm going to tell anybody I'm going to antique. Right. But he's like, just keep my name out of it. I thought that was weird.
in the
If you guys want to invest and he paid them all back and then some they made a nice little score with him. So he's building credit with all these people at work. Now, I don't know this. I just think it's Travis and Avelina. But I just remember he was really upset when I said it's Kentucky Derby because that same week's my birthday. That's like my favorite week of the year. And so I just remembered, wow, that's the first time I saw him kind of get mad at me. I was like,
I was like, all right, bro, just, I'm not going to tell them I'm going antiquing. Right. So I've worked going fine. I'm, I'm doing well. I'm progressing there. I remember one day he had a Friday off and my car wouldn't start. And he said he was going antiquing. Right. I was like, all right, knock yourself out. I'll see you later. We'll meet at the bar, you know, something like that.
And I called my uncle and he's like, I'll come down, jump you. And he's got to drive like 45 miles. He's the only person I could find. One of the lifeguard friends of ours that we play poker with at night says, Hey, I'll give you a jumpstart. So I called my uncle back and said, hold off. He said, I'm still going to meet you. Meet me at Pep Boys. We've got to get you new battery. The weather turns hot. Batteries go bad. So turn off jumpstart.
But when I turned the car off, wouldn't restart, needs a new battery. I drive, meet my uncle, I come back. And in Florida, in the East Coast, you have intercoastal waterways. You've got to go over the bridge to get back because we live, you know, the ocean side of the intercoastal. And I remember driving by Dania Highlight because that was just the way back to the house. And I saw Dave's car sitting there at like 11 o'clock in the morning. Okay. I thought, that's weird. Maybe his antiquing got done early.
It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts.
What's he doing there? Now they show simulcast racing from Australia and England and all that. So I'm like, Oh, that guy, he's junking out, betting the ponies. Right. So when I called him later, he pretended like he was still antiquing. I was like, when we say antiquing, we mean buying antiquing. So you think he's really going antiquing. I thought I antiquing was code for I'm at the race. Exactly.
So when you say antiquing, you're saying you really think he was going antiquing? He was trying to tell me he was antiquing. I'm thinking he's going to the racetrack. I don't care. Right. My problem there was I caught him in a lie. Right. You don't need to lie to me. Tell me. Yeah, dude, I'm betting Royal Ascot. It's showing it. Yeah, great. There's no reason. No reason to lie to me. And I just thought that was funny that he's trying to sell one over on me on a Friday that he didn't have to go to work.
And you're living with him. Yeah, and I'm living with him. And I just thought that was really odd because he finally came up with the story. Oh no, I did go antique, you know, because what he would say he would do, his brother has, Ken Srail has an antique and stamp company.
So it's one of those things he knows all about it, living vicariously through his brother. So giving his brother's line out there to people, like he's an expert at it. And I'm sure Dave grew up, he knows the antique business a little bit. We did have some pieces where he had some pieces in the house there. He's like, don't set your drink on that table. That's worth about a thousand dollars. No, I was like, Oh, you know, so he knew his stuff. And so,
But he didn't need to lie to me when all he had to say was, yeah, I'm done. I got done antique, you know, looking at antiques because what are you seeing was doing was he would go to these sales and he knew wealthy people that were looking for something. So if he find the piece, he would just play middleman and broker it and make a couple hundred dollars. So that's what he was doing when Avelino was giving him three hundred dollars. He was just going to the racetrack. And even if he lost, he was just giving her more money to build up credit.
But what he tells them he's doing is he's buying pieces and flipping them basically. Right. So when I say antiquing, like flipping antiques to make money. Okay. So that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on. He did the same thing for my parents. My parents gave him a thousand bucks. He said, yeah, I've got some, some antiques that I'm going to go buy in Miami. And he left one day, came back, said, here's 1400 bucks for your mom and dad.
You know, I was like, wow, that's an easy way to make 40% on your money pretty fast. And again, that builds credibility. And so, you know, he would give me grief about the music that I listened to. And I just like this guy named Josh Rouse because I met him, but I like Van Halen and U2 and those are my bands.
But he wanted to play Counting Crows, but I remember he would just needle me like, let's listen to Josh Rouse. You know, just make funny. So it's not like he was perfect. Mr. Cool. He wouldn't be a goofball. He could act like a douche bag, but then I was like, Hey, I remember saying, Hey, at least I'm the one, the Metro sexual guy everybody's questioning about. And he goes in his room and he comes out. This is Jen.
That's my ex fiance. She died of cancer. And I felt like a shit bag. Is it true? I doubt it. But I mean, he's definitely, I'm like, Oh, he's got pictures of her. He's got a whole story about her. And I'm like, Oh, I can't believe I did that. So he's got his con game down.
I'm like, Oh Dave, put your foot in your mouth. I remember I walked outside and he's like, bro, he's like, you're a Dick, but it's okay, man. He's not the first one. I was like, Hey, as long as you're not going to come, come hop in my bed at night. I don't care. You know, right. So we just played it. We're dudes, you know, we're playing it off. I said, I just, you know, we got all these hot chicks around here. It's like, man, I just can't get, I can't get Jen out of my head.
And I said, I understand. You poor tortured soul, let me invest in some antiques. And what's crazy is I had been engaged July of 02, spent a good seven grand at wilderness lodge and 20 days later I was unengaged. And that's because I loved her dearly. We just weren't in love. Right. And you know, if I hadn't proposed, we'd probably still be dating, you know, as one of those things we just had to do something.
just cut the cord and be done. She and I are still dear friends. But, uh, so I was, it was kind of weird. I had always had a serious girlfriend, but I was kind of playing the field and I'm in a new territory. And it was just kind of weird in the, the, the bar rats. That's not really my, my scene there. Cause there was plenty of girls would be intoxicated and Dave's like, bring one home. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that.
That's never been my deal. And I was like, why don't you bring one home? And then, you know, that's kind of what precipitated the whole thing. So he explains to me back in Cleveland, he got engaged, this high school sweetheart, Jen, developed cancer, and just he took care of her. She went downhill. And so he came to Florida, worked on a fishing boat, just need a new break. And I was like, you know, that was six years ago, but it was still obviously really bothering him.
So I had to mention my buddy Matt, who I went to college with and he had Section 8 apartments and houses and he bought stuff and he's like, you know, as a senior management at AB and AMRO, we've got a bunch of foreclosures. He said Matt would have to be partners with me, but we got a whole portfolio of foreclosures and we get first dibs on them.
And so I get them on the phone with my college. Not exactly how it works, but okay. But you don't know any better. I didn't know any better at the time. And he's got the appraisals on company letterhead. We go and look at the houses. Right. He's like, here's one in Pembroke Pines. It's a two, two. Um, you know, I think the company got 38 invested into it. If we, you know, so I didn't know any better.
And I'm talking to Matt and Matt's one of those guys. He's, he did well for himself, but he thinks he's smarter than he is. Right. And his brother and I used to go, Hey Matt, we've given you our knowledge. You've chose to disregard it. So good luck. You know, he's one of those guys. So anyway, Matt ends up sending him like 30 grand.
but I really didn't stay that in tune with that. I just knew that Matt had bought a couple of houses and they were looking at a third. Now understand, I go to the racetrack with this guy all the time, but he's not whipping out five, 10 grand. That's something my baseball buddies do. You know, he's just, he's betting pretty moderately here, but I do remember him playing a pick six and he lost in the last race.
And the look on his face was like someone died. Like he really needed the horse to win. I was like, Oh man. And come to find out it was like, if he would have hit, it would have been like two or 300,000. That would have cleared a lot of his troubles. Right. And so, but you know, I didn't know it at the time, but he really needed that money and he was pretty salty on the ride home. And that's,
and I never really saw that side of him. He was just really angry and frustrated, but you know, being a guy that likes to gamble. Hey, I understand that. And I just thought that was, Hey, just had some bad luck at the racetrack, but what his problem is, is his time's running out and he's, you know, we'll get to it, but his, his time's running out. He's got to come up with some serious money soon here. So,
There wasn't too much more to tip me off, but I finally started thinking, this just doesn't make sense. Remember when you said you were at the bank and the bank guys said, ah, I can't put my finger on it, but something's not right here. And you said, well, I'm sure it will come to you. So I was kind of, it's just your intuition. Something told me something was really off.
You know what the main thing was? I didn't go in his room and when you peeked in there, it was a pigsty. People that do well normally take care of their stuff. You typically need to have an organized mind in order to be an organized person. You can fake it, but you can't fake it all the time if it's just not true to your nature.
Very well said, Matt. His mattress looked like he hadn't washed his sheets in three years. It was that. It had like the sweat stains on it. I'm like, oh my gosh, that looks like a prison cell. And I'm no neat freak, but I started rebelling from him, like making up my bed every day and just trying to be like, hey, if girls ever come back here, are you going to bring one in that room? And so
We would play poker games at night on the weekends. There was this place called Mulvaney's, a beach bar we would go to. And he would pay every time, Matt. And I was like, dude, I'm not your girlfriend. Right. You know, and I grew up with a father that always picked up the check. And so it's just my nature. If I'm taking a check out, even if we're on the friends, I'm paying. I'm just paying. It's just, that's the reality. I'm paying.
You know, I'm old school like that. It's just what it is. So, and it just, I just remember thinking, this is weird. So one Saturday I'm at home, mail goes through the slot and it says Bank of America statement. I opened it.
totally inappropriate but anyway what is that you know what looks you and i feel bad i feel bad nobody feels worse about this than me but that fucker was thick i i did feel bad but he's got my my buddy matt money for 30 grand 30 grand and matt just told me i'm giving him another 15 and i'm like i don't know dude hold off make sure these
First couple deals go through. What are you giving them more money for? Right. So I opened up and I figured, Hey, I'm a little sketchy myself. I'll glue it back together. Make it look good. Like it wasn't open. Yeah. Or it didn't show up. Yeah. Yeah. You're missing. Yep. I have a couple of things not show up here too. Yeah. Mom and dad's credit card when you're a kid. Oh, this must my statement. That goes bye bye. Right? Yeah. Kids don't do that.
So I looked, he got the money from Matt. It didn't go to the bank. It would withdraw, withdraw, withdraw. Right. But I didn't say anything to him because I thought, how would I know? Maybe he and the vice president of the bank are putting one over on Matt. Yeah, he's partners in the deal, but they're pocketing their profits upfront. Right. So you don't know exactly how the money is distributed. I don't know exactly how they made the arrangement.
but I kind of know. And I remember we're in August and we started getting some really bad rainstorms and there were some hurricanes in 05. There was Charlie, there was Katrina and Wilma later on. And my grandma wasn't staying in her place in Lighthouse Point. And I remember Dave, I was staying up there. I would spend a lot of nights up there cause I started seeing this chick
It was kind of get away from him. I'd kind of had my fill with him. Now, I'll be the first to tell you, he's an amazing dude to hang out with. He's a lot of fun. He's very charismatic, and that's why people like him. My buddy at AB and Amro that taught me the mortgage business, Kevin Goodenow, thought that guy's shady. There's something about him I don't like, and he's the only person in the whole office
That thought Dave was shady. What's weird was Dave would say, I don't like that guy, Kevin. I was like, Kevin's taught me the mortgage business better than anybody. And Kevin ended up getting hired on full time. That's what I'm trying to do. So anyway,
That storm Dave asked if he could come stay with, you know, because he wanted to get rained on in her place because there was a hole. I forgot to tell you about the house, the one we live in. Dave says he owns it. He said, you'll see the landlord show up, but he's got to deal with me. And he showed me the documents. He's buying it. The landlord's going to get rid of the wife.
And he had told a bunch of people that he's going to leave his wife and he's going to sell the place, the rental property. So he doesn't own it. So he doesn't know, but he told me that he owned it. He said, you might see the landlord come by and do some maintenance, but it's all a show because he's going to leave his wife soon. And I was too stupid to not figure out that that was just a garbage story.
Then you don't own it. You're just leasing it. I don't understand. Exactly. Okay. And you know, if Travis was here, they might be able to say, I don't remember the exact story. He was basically, the landlord was selling it out behind the Weisbach, basically. Oh, okay. So he was going to buy it up. He had plans of like a lease with an option to buy. Lease with an option, something like that. So, and I remember it was kind of weird when he stayed with me that night up in Lighthouse Point.
but you know, it was just because I think he knows that I got into his bank statement. Okay. But he's not going to approach me on it. And I was wondering if he's going to say something to me. I have no problem talking about it. Right. Cause I would have said, Oh yeah, dude, I'm sorry. I opened it up. I didn't, you know, I don't look at anything. I just ripped it. You know, that was going to be my answer. Right. So,
And I mentioned Kevin. Kevin taught me everything about the mortgage business. When he got hired full time, he sat next to Travis and Avelina. Now, as I mentioned earlier, Dave introduced Travis and Avelina.
They used to have another girl, I think her name was Rachel, that the four of them would hang out. Unfortunately, she committed suicide. And this is a true story, because there's a plaque dedicated to her down at the beach. Okay. And so those three of them would go to the bar on her birthday and, and, and talk. And I wasn't invited. I remember thinking, dang, man, you guys can leave me at home. But Dave said, we're going to talk about Rachel. And so
Really what they were talking about was, Hey, when we're going to get our money back, but Dave used that as an excuse. But so. And this was the kind of the final nail in the coffin as far as what I would.
Seeing with this guy. No, you got to remember this guy walks into everybody. Hey, Dave. People love this dude at lunch. If you go out, he's picking up the tab with Jennifer's money or with Tom's money. Exactly. Bill's money. Exactly. It should be a big shot. I listened. I was a big shot with the bank's money. Absolutely. I'd love to that. That sounds like a lot of fun. That'd be fun to have be large and in charge. So
He said, um, I remember I got a first mortgage, got a call in. It's a first. Now what I'll do mad is I'll do the whole application and then I'll be like, who wants to get a nice commission? So I'm going to give it to Kevin. My buddy, Kevin, good now taught me everything about the mortgage business. Kevin sits right next to Travis and Kevin's like, dude, I got, I can't, I got two, I'm closing two deals at once. Right.
Travis when a first it's a close you just got it, you know, it's like oh good That night Dave says to me Travis really doesn't like you dude and be careful. Don't be flirting with Avelina. He's really jealous And I'm many things Matt I don't flirt with other group dudes group wives girlfriends. That's not my thing. Right? I went to a really small high school and
And I was a hopeless romantic and I'd think this girl's cute. And then I heard Johnny talking about how he made out with her last week. And I was just like, instantly. So they didn't quit making girls. There's plenty of them out there. Right. And Evelyn wasn't my type. I never flirted with her. That's just, and Dave's like, Oh yeah. Would Dave
doesn't want me talking to certain people in the office. Right. There's people that have invested with them, buying antiques for them. Yeah, that's what I would later figure out. And then he was like, I don't know what you did to piss off Tommy, but boy, I was like, dude, he can't take a joke. I made it, but that's another guy needs to keep me away from. So there was some of the things there, but
You know, in the back of your mind, it doesn't make sense. Right. And your conscience is telling you that, you know, that's garbage. So I'm going to join my buddy Billy and Kurt. We're going to go to the Jersey Shore for Labor Day. All right. And like I said, I've kind of spent time away. They haven't made me full time, even though I'm either first or second
in second mortgages or home equity lines of credit. I'm really doing well at the company there, but for whatever reason, I've not been offered a full-time position. So I'm just going to take Friday off and I'll be gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And I get up to Jersey Shore and I remember I talked to Dave on the phone and I said, yeah, we're going to Atlantic cities. Like, let me send you some money.
I'm like, Hey, if you're going to offer some money and I like to gamble, it's like, yeah, send me 500 bucks and said, let me know if you need more. Don't tell Carol. Right. And I was like, okay, all right, dude. I was like, did you, did you make a big story? He's like, yeah, I, I get the superfected, the, you know, he made up some story though. Hey, he sent me 500 bucks. And I were thinking, man, I should ask him for another 500 after, you know,
I had a great weekend in Atlantic City with the Wildwood. I met a really cute girl from West Jester. I lost her in the crowd as the bars closed. They take the drinks out of your hand at 2 a.m. I couldn't find her.
So I remember we went and saw, uh, the hangover that weekend, just a really great weekend with my college buddies. And I'm thinking that was great. So I fly back home and I remember I was driving down from my parents' house and I can either go right to work or I can go to the house first. And I thought I'll just go to the house first, maybe change the shirt, you know, and I get there.
You just have that feeling when you open the door, something's different. Oh, Davis packed up all his stuff and left. And there were bedding slips all over the floor. Because in those days, just so you know, nowadays, you don't need to keep your gambling slips, your bet stubs.
They track everything through player cards or online, you know, cause if you cash over the IRS limit, you might have to pay taxes on it. Right. So Dave had serious IRS troubles. I would later find, I'd find these notes from the IRS. So he was, I mean, he had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bedding slips and he's gone. And on my bed was a note.
And on the kitchen counter, there was a note for Travis and Avelina. And I thought, great. What's going on YouTube? Our DAP Dan here, Federal Prison Time Consulting. Hope you guys are all having a great day. If you're seeing and hearing this right now, that means you're watching Matt Cox on Inside True Crime.
At the end
Prepping you properly for the pre-sentence interview, which is going to determine a lot of what type of sentence you receive. You've already been sentenced. We can also focus on the residential drug abuse program, how you can knock off one year off of your sentence. Also, we have the First Step Act, where you can earn FSA credits while serving your sentence. For every 30 days that you program through the FSA, you can actually knock an additional 15 days off per month.
Before I went on that vacation, Dave kind of said it all out there for me. He said, listen, as you know, my brother has an antique and stamp business. He said the government, you know, people are doing more and more email.
So their stamp business is really going down. So they sell all these odd lot stamps at a discount. What do you mean their stamp? When you say stamp business, I thought you meant like antique stamps or specialty. He's saying that the government has some, you know, they print so many stamps, but they can't sell them all. Okay. And then some of them, you know, they, they sell them in lots and you'd get seven off a roll here and
And through the years, they just pile up. So you can buy stamps at a massive at a discount, massive bulk, but you've got to take two cents stamps and three cents. You got to take whatever they give you, but you're going to get it at a massive discount. And he had said that he and his brother, they've done this before.
And it takes a little while to get your money back, but companies will buy those stamps from you because you're going to sell it at a discount to them. Right. And he said, you know, my brother's in with, you know, he's been buying so many stamps from the government. He's got inroads there. He said, you know, you've got some friends that have some money. That's a great way to make 30% on your money. He said, and he was, you know, my brother and I take a small fee and obviously we've got to make it
good for the corporations or are they just going to buy it from the government? So we got to offer them a discount, but there's a nice spread there for a nice profit. And he pitched me that before I went on vacation and I was like, well, show me the deal, show me how it's done. And then if you show me the, you know, I got to see some things before I'm going to go talk to one of my ball player buddies or somebody that I know I'm not just going to take your word for it.
and I think he was probably heartbroken that you didn't, that I didn't bite on that hand over 20 grand. Yeah. I think he was looking like, I think he was looking for like a hundred grand because in the little note he left me said, I was hoping you'd end up being my partner partner doesn't sound like that. That's it. Yeah. And uh,
He said, you know, so you said you so at that point you were like, this is just before you went on vacation and you were like.
Yeah, it sounds great sounds like an interesting idea and you know the way and the way he sold it is Listen, the government has made so many stamps and so many people use email now They're never gonna be able to sell all these stamps and they're still printing them, you know You know get the forever stamps and then you got seven cents stamps 15% There's such a backlog. They've got warehouses full of stamps and it's we could we have companies that will buy them and
But you know, they might have to piece them together. But if we can buy them for 40, 50, 60 cents in the dollar, then go to the, you know, IBM or somebody that still sends out mail, you know, and packages it up for them. Hey, yeah, they'll, they can buy it at a discount. So it makes sense. Sounds like bullshit to me, but I hear you. I hear you.
Again, when he told me that I'm not thinking anything, but he's wants me to talk to people that I'm just not going to go. And you remember I'm a ruin your credibility. I'm a former stockbroker. I never asked Paul one time to manage his money. Right. And that's what I do. Right. And he, when I say manages money, I would talk about putting his money in a Schwab where he could see it online and he would just pay me quarterly. Cause that's what I did at a company.
Right. Right.
I owe him because I'm living in his house and he's paying the rent. I don't have to pay rent. Right. Was it always that you were always kind of, he was all, you're always being set up for. Yeah. And he wrote in this note to me that I was hoping you'd be my partner and I tried to get you. So you opened the letter. So you got back, you got the letter, you opened the letter and I'm like, wow, this dude's gone. You know, I was just kind of shocked and understand.
He'd lived there for six years. This wasn't just some short con and all of a sudden he's gone. He had made friendships with people at work and people around the neighborhood that he had to pick up and leave on. And I know that he didn't want to leave. And he probably, you know, he didn't want to con these people out of money, but his desire for gambling money, I guess,
with so much stronger, you know, pulled off a con here and there. And I think he just probably worked himself in a big hole. Then he came up with these other business ideas. Now you've got people that had given him money. Well, anyways, we'll get that. I drive to work and I've got to tell Travis and Adelina cause they left, Dave left me a note. What did the letter say to you? What did your letter say? It's basically said, I'm sorry, but I got to take off.
I was hoping you'd be my partner, but I don't own the house. That was BS. Okay. Uh, I didn't have a fiance that died. Uh, I got in the same problems in Ohio and I just can't keep myself out of trouble. You're a good dude. Uh, basically I'm sorry about Matt's money.
You know, basically my bad, my bad. Oh shit. And I'm like, and it was just, you know, I'm just, and we're currently, we're currently being evicted on. You might want to find some place. He's like, I'm sorry to do this to you, but I didn't pay September rent. So I'm like, Oh great. Just moving sucks in and of itself. But so that was the least my concerns and that, but I still don't know.
How much that he said, but they left the note for Travis and Aveline and I gave it to them and I heard screaming around the corner. Now I'm at work. I'm sitting at my desk. Travis is down there. Kevin's down there and they're screaming, they're yelling and there, but there's other people yelling. Oh, okay. So now it's spreading and it's spreading. Right. And then the management calls me into an office and I pull out my letter.
And I was like, this is what he left me. And I'm, I gave that letter up. I think I made a copy of it and sent it to Matt cause I got to call my college roommate who by the way tells me, Oh, I did send that other 15 grand to him. That's 45, $45,000 I've given Dave. And what kills me is to where's that $45,000. Right. Did you gamble that all? Yeah. I was sitting next to you the whole time. It sure didn't look like it. So,
Well, I was going to say the other thing is, you know, you're like, oh, he didn't want to up and leave, but you're also thinking that he has the same emotional attachments to other people that you do. Yes. Yes. You know, like there's, you know, you don't know that he may have been like, get to start over. On the road, baby. It may have been a wall.
I'm thinking that he probably had 20 grand on him when he left, or 30, because he wanted to send me another 500 bucks. If he's hurting for cash, he's not going to... Why are you sending me money? Right. You know? Because Lord knows he could... I wasn't going in on that stamp deal and I made that... He made a pretty hard pitch at me and I was like, just show me how it's done so I can go to other people. Show me you're buying it, show me your push. I've got to see it. I'm not going to take anything
I didn't do any cold calling when I was a stockbroker. You know why? Because I hang up on cold callers. Right. They annoy me. So you can go, I'm Dave Wilhauer, JT Marlin. You got to get a boom. I do. I got to have a relationship with you. I truly believe people do business with who they like. That's why Dave's Rail was able to get abscond all that money because people liked him. You know, it's so so, you know, it's so funny is
that when I was in Tampa and on the run and I was flipping properties and people saw, you know, like I'm always paying for everything. I'm always, you know, how many people would come to me and say, Hey, listen, I could, you know, if I gave you 20 grand, like, like, could I, you know, what, what could I get back? And I would be like, nah, you know, and this is the thing, like, you know,
It was like, one, I'm not going to rip you off, but two, I know that everything I'm doing is illegal and I don't want to have wires from you coming to me. And then the other thing was it was like, okay, it's not worth it for you to lend me money. For one thing, I'm borrowing money.
Very inexpensively from the bank. Right. I have plenty of money. Like you're 20 grand. If I've got 300,000 in the bank and I've got your 20 grand means nothing really in the grand scheme of things. I'm borrowing money at six percent, five percent. Yeah. I don't like what are you going to get? You're just one more phone call headache that I got to worry about. Right. Like you're 20 grand. I can just pull 20 grand out of my own bank account and it cost me nothing. You're saying if I give you 20, would you give me back 2200 or 20,000 and give it plus 2000? Like no. Yeah.
I tell you what, you're a better man than me. But people are constantly offering me money. Yeah. And it's like, it's crazy. It's like, this is, this is not, and I think that's the same thing. Your buddy realized I'm paying for everything. I look like I'm doing well. Everybody likes me. Everybody trusts me. They're going to offer me money. If I come to them and ask them for money, they're going to give me the money. Oh yeah. And you know, he created the fear of loss, you know, like
And if you don't have it, don't matter, but I got to get it by my Monday, you know, and right, you know, you've always had cash on them. You know, I had a buddy in prison who said, remember he said people are more concerned about losing out on a good deal than they are at, at protecting their, their, their money. Yeah. They, they, they don't, what they don't want. They don't want to have a hundred thousand dollars.
and find out that they could have lent it to you and made 150, then to keep their 100,000, even though it's a risk. They're more willing to risk it than protect it. And he was like, and that was the big thing was he played up on that. I've got this guy invested, this guy invested, this guy invested. I've got one more spot
But I'm talking to somebody else. Yeah, and they will I'll do it It's like they're not asking me any questions. They don't have any proof. They don't have anything They just don't want somebody else to get their investment when we did my family's business. We did club sales Public or quasi private golf country clubs would turn private and It was deposit membership. So when you resign your membership you get all your money back and
It's a liability, not a credit for the club. My dad came up with it. It was a great program. Some country clubs, you join, pay 100 grand, you leave, you get 20 grand, if that, if you're lucky. So it was a deposit membership, but they would have price increases and people would be waiting there and be like, hey, July 1st, the price goes from 25,000 to 35,000. And most of these people are really wealthy and they're like, I don't know. Hey, that's fine.
But if you want to play golf at the club, it's 30, it will be 35,000. It's 25 right now. Right. So fear of loss is big thing. And I love what you said in your other video. You make that sales pitch and you shut up. All right. My dad told me the same thing. Your dad said, yeah, next spot speaks losers. Yeah. You'll talk yourself out of a deal. Oh, and then we had a problem with guys that would keep talking like, dude, you've already strolled them on it. Shut up. So anyway,
It's screaming at the office, screaming at the office and, and people kept coming up to Dave's rail really leave. And I'm just sitting at my deck. I'm like trying to do the second mortgage. Like, yeah, give me 10 minutes. I'll know. I'll tell you all about it. And then the vice president comes over and Dave, you know, me from Adam, can I have a word with you?
Do you know what happened to my $100,000? Did it keep getting worse and worse? How Dave sold me to Matt was he was doing what was called Six Sigma. It was some type of club. I'd never heard of it, but I would see him sit down with the vice presidents of the bank.
Now, I shouldn't say the bank, the mortgage company. But this was the major call center for, you know, a Dutch based company that owns LaSalle Bank and some of the other banks in the United States. So it's a pretty big deal. It's like the fourth, the fifth largest bank in the world. And he's I would see Dave have meetings with these vice presidents. So I knew, you know, he was kind of a big wig, maybe not at work, but reputation wise. So it didn't shock me.
that he would talk to maybe a vice president and say, Hey, let's sell some of these foreclosures. Right. Greed is what runs society. Even if it wasn't on the up and up, that didn't bother me about that deal with my friend, Matt. Right. You know what I'm saying? What I really didn't, you know, I'm thinking, wow, they can sell for it's their properties. And if the guy's the head of the real estate division or has control of that, why can't they sell some?
Obviously it was a scam, but it was on ABN Amarillo letterhead, and my friend Matt was able to get his money back, but not the people in the office. Travis and Avelina lost $35,000 to Dave. Now what Dave would do, and if you go on davestrails.com, there's what's called a, he would write a cognovic note. I've never heard the term cognovic.
Okay. But I think psychologically nobody else had, instead of saying, I owe Matt Cox 35,000, but a Cognovic note. It kind of made it more official. You know what I'm saying? It's Latin. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to fuck you out of your money. I mean. Yeah. Hold on to your wallet. And so
and there is a guy that lost five another guy lost two and there are some people were like i had a girl tell me i loaned him two thousand dollars last month said he pitched me on some stamp deal my husband i said no i'm not even going to say anything because there were people that
that that really lost a lot of money. So in the note that he leaves to Travis and Avelina in the end, like what do you think he got the office in general over 300 close to $400,000? Well, just people in that office. Okay. And in the note he leaves to Avelina, he's like, you have
The ring that I gave to my fake ass fiance. Cut the shit, bro. And you know what bothers me is he's writing this. He's thinking that people are going to miss him. They want their money. Right. But he's still in his mind. He's sentimental. He's writing a goodbye note and you can read it on davesrail.com. It's called letters section. And he's like, I'm going to New York. He said I'd commit suicide, but in my health
Life insurance policy, it's not covered. Like he feels so bad about what he's done. So you guys could get your money back, but it doesn't do it anyway. Let's try. I'm willing to risk it. Yeah. Let's let's make it look fishy. Yeah. Let's make it look fishy. We'll just throw a gun and then put someone else's prints on it. Yeah. Well, yeah, but we'll make it look like a hit and run. Yeah. Go out in the road. Yeah, sure. We could, I'll run you over with the car. Right.
Let's get that money. Yeah. Let's do the right thing. Do the right thing. Okay. Careless driving just 50 miles right over the embankment. Right. It'll be a hit and run. It's accidental death. Your insurance problem will be whole and we'll thank you for that. Yes. Yes. So just, just people helping people. It's just the right thing to do. Absolutely. Do the right thing, Dave off yourself. So in his note, he kind of lists in there, you know,
Sorry I did this to you because, but your heart picked the right friends. Don't let this incident think that, you know, if these people had to be going, I was friends with this guy for five years, the lady puts a picture of him in there saying, this man was in my house last Thanksgiving. So Avelina's mother makes a whole website, Dave's rail, the con man, and you
And I remember my friend Matt was, did you tell her you're coming on here? I'm sorry. I told Kevin, I don't know Avelina phone number, but I told my friend Kevin, we got to put the website in the description. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And, and so they put the website out cause they're pissed. Yeah. They want the sucker caught because they went to the police and the police said, Oh, it's civil. Yeah.
And that really bothers me. It bothers me because I've heard that many times because it's it's fraud. It's not civil. And think about this, Matt. I would call Ken Srail, Dave's brother, just to get some background. And he would tell me that, yeah, it was an insurance company. I think it was State Farm. I'm not positive. He did the same thing seven or eight years earlier. That's why he had to leave Cleveland and his mom and dad paid his debts to make people whole.
and so he left with his tail between his legs and went to florida and start over and start over and he ends up doing the same thing and ken said you know what's funny is avalina would end up calling getting the number for kent's but dave happened to walk by
And it, and Ken said, yeah, tell Dave, I said, hi. And she, I guess she was embarrassed cause she was, cause she wanted to find out where her money was. So she's just going to call the brother cause Dave acts like Ken's in on it. And he said, yeah, tell Dave to call me. And so Ken said, yeah, I was wondering if he was up to his old tricks because I was getting weird emails to my website. But what Dave ended up doing was copying Ken on emails.
But making up a Ken's, his own Ken's rail that he could, you know, anybody can start a new, right? Right. My brother's Ken's rail, uh, Ken's rail 11 at Yahoo.com and that comes to me. I set the web email up.
And so that's what he was doing them. These people were pissed. So I don't understand. There was no brother. There was a brother. There was the brother didn't know anything about what Dave was doing. Okay. The brother. Yeah, I didn't. I assume the brother. He's pissed that his brother's done this all over again and hurt more people. And so I ended up talking to Ken, super nice guy. And I, you know, I'm like, I just live with this brother. I was like, your brother's a good guy. If he just would put his tent, he's like, my brother's a smart guy.
He just can't help himself. He's just a scumbag. He just can't get over that. And you got to figure they didn't give the stamp deal is what I think he sold all the people in the office on. That didn't happen two years ago. That was recent. So he was actually doing good. But something happened along the way where he started getting in more debt.
I don't understand what you're saying. What stamp deal? So there is no stamp deal. That's not a real thing. But the con was real.
What I'm saying is he's been at that office for five years. So he just recently got himself into trouble. So you don't think it was set up for five years? That's why I think this guy's got some rich friends and maybe he can help me because we'll rip these people off so I can make the people a work hole. And it's important that I keep him in the dark about what's happening with all these other people. He's thinking he's going to gamble his way out of it. Because like I said that one day when he missed that pick six,
he just was devastated and i've seen him everybody loses photo finishes but he was devastated because he's i mean because i imagine he probably told him hey it's going to take three four months to unload all the money but after three more months they were like
Where's our money dude? We give you the money back in December last year. Well, it's hard to move antiques Yeah, you know or no or stamps, you know trying to get the companies. We got to get all the stamps We got to get them lotted together and store, you know, it's a but I think he ran out of excuses But here's another thing that bothers me about the whole civil and criminal these people were dealing with somebody and
at a bank, the fifth largest bank in the world. You would have thought they did a background check on them. Right. On their own employees. Well, are you saying he had been locked up before or he'd had? Well, it was written, I think it was in the paper about
his shenanigans in Ohio. Okay. So I don't know if he'd been arrested or not, but I'll call previous employers. Well, I mean, maybe, maybe they just did a criminal background check. Nothing came up. They're good. Okay. Keep going. Okay. That makes sense. But, you know, and it's not hard to fake a resume, you know? Yeah. So who knows? It's true. So let's face it, they're not paying you anything and it's a part time, like they let you work your way up. Right. Right. So Srail ends up going to Texas.
In the following spring, Paul, my buddy, a baseball player, lives in San Antonio. And he calls me and says, Hey, does that guy, that guy Dave that you live with, does he bring a big bag of pens to the track with him and wear a bandana? I said, yeah. He's like, he's sitting three feet away from me. So Paul goes to talk to him. Dave says,
I'll be right back. Paul said he went to the bathroom and ran out of the racetrack. Paul's like, dude, I'm not going to turn him in. I just want to talk to him. Yeah, you know. So. That website ends up going up. And someone finds out Dave's real name. Apparently, he'd been using fake names. He was doing. Fake names once he took off. Yeah, I think his real name is Dave Shrill. Dave Shrill.
But he was giving fake names and he was also signing up for like Big Pharma has all these tests. What am I looking for?
They're looking for volunteers on a blood, uh, uh, right to take Medicare study. You know what I'm saying? They pay you this much and exactly. And he's taking, he was doing, he's got, he's got five of them going all kinds of people. Yeah. What I went through is when we went to his room, we, we, he'd done them before and you know, and Travis and Avelina would later come to the house. Well, I, I, I kind of blown it.
If you read the end of the letter he left Travis and Avelina after he BS'ed about the suicide. Poor, poor me. Poor, poor me. But I'm going to use my talents for good and trust your heart, Avelina. You didn't do bad picking friends in me and you found a great man in Travis. And at the very end there and he said, oh, and as far as David, I just don't have the words.
And what he means is that guy David and his mom that he stole $300,000 from. That was their life savings. He couldn't leave him a letter. Which one was David? There was another guy in the office. Oh, okay. I didn't know about it either until I read the letter. $300,000 he stole from a guy and his mom. I went outside the office. He was sobbing in his car.
Dave was. This guy David. He's got to go home and tell his mom that all our money is gone. Wow.
No, we can't arrest a guy for screwing, because here's my thing. If I went into the bank and I lied to the bank and they gave me money and I had never paid them back, that's fraud. Right. So because you're not a licensed organization, because he borrowed money from somebody, they're saying, oh, that's civil. Puts it on this note saying, I get the money from you, writes a note saying, I'm a con man.
What's the difference between me borrowing $300,000 from Make of America and then writing them a note saying, Hey, my bad. I just took your money. Go fuck yourself. It's the same thing. I still have a promissory note. So if we screw banks, you go to prison, but if we screw the American people, go fuck yourself. Go find a lawyer. Now lucky for my buddy, Matt, I found a great attorney down in Miami that was a friend of the family and he got Matt all his money back. How?
We sued AB and AMRO because it was on their letterhead. It was their employees. He presented it. He sent the appraisals. He sent the descriptions. But what about the other guy? 300,000. Dave, he's fucked. Nothing. They didn't get any money back. You told me you got his money. I was thinking about Dave. Yeah, I feel it's terrible. That's why I'm sitting here. Because there's a big injustice. The people that on your venture,
I don't think, when it's all said and done, the banks, they have insurance policies against fraud. Right. Or at least they've built it into their business model. Absolutely. Like they're a certain percentage of interest rates and everything else goes just towards fraud. You said there was one guy that was really mad at you and
I had so I actually have like four victims and that but the total I owe all victims is about 30 grand and I didn't take the money like you've got a doctor that paid like eleven or twelve thousand dollars to an attorney attorney they all pay for attorneys by the way the same thing CPA paid for an attorney same thing as a lawyer that lent money he was a hard money hard money lender he also
The most was the doctor that lost money. And yeah, he was so furious that he couldn't be, he was like, oh, that he couldn't even come to, because they wanted him to get up and say, because he'd lost the most money, he'd either have to hire an attorney like this.
Did he lose his life saving? No, no, he lost. That's my point. Yeah. And he's that mad. I know, but you know, some guys are so. Of course, they don't like to get over on. Right. But it's just how do we allow this to happen? Even if they don't lock Strahl up and say,
We're going to garnish your wages to pay these people off. Right. At least something coming in. So they get some money back. Yeah. $500 a month. They're getting something, but nothing. And the thing is, if they grabbed him, like how hard of a case is that to even make? Once you grab him, you say, here it is. We're charging you with this. You get on probation. You're going to start making payments. That's it. That's not a hard process for the police. So he goes to Texas. The guy reads davesrail.com and apparently Dave had a knife on him.
And the guy confronted Dave. Now, Dave's not a fighter, but he would pull the knife out, like, get away from me. That's the only reason he did 30 days in jails because he pulled out a knife. I called the cops. Yeah. Dave was gone, found a new company. The guy talked to a detective. The detective found the website, davesrail.com. They arrested Srail right before he was going to get on an airplane going to do what he was working for some company that they've used to fly off site in Texas.
But he only did like 30 or 60 days in jail. That's it. He goes to Evansville, Indiana. He screws a lady out of a couple thousand dollars. He's repeated this. So in my mind, if we could say this guy's a scam artist, he's a perfect con man cons short for confidence. You gain confidence in him. He is a con man. Right. And if you say he did it in Ohio, he did it in Florida. He did it in Texas.
He did it in Indiana. I mean, you've got a pattern from the 90s up to 2015. He's just screwing people. It just hasn't stopped. What's funny to me is that he's getting these jobs at these financial institutions or these institutions where you have access to people's... That's my point. Right. So you would think they would do a little extra... He's got social security number.
You know, yeah, you check. Does he have a criminal record? But you got to be really careful. You got people's social security numbers. You got to. Everything's there. Listen, when you're talking to somebody on the phone and you're getting their information, especially back then, back then, they're giving it all to you right on the phone. Matt, I was talking about second mortgage with people and I'm like, you're going to have to give me your social so I can do your credit. People don't like giving social security to strangers over and I don't blame them. But they give it to you. They give it to you. Well, I was going to say,
the the thing is is is that like I would get on the phone with somebody and ask them all kinds of like someone say start telling you stuff right you get them in the pub they're all in like you know at once they get date of birth social security number where were you what state and county were you what your mother's maiden name you're asking them questions like there's no reason for me to ask you some of these questions I was wondering how you did that how do you get on a maiden name yeah let's have a password just in case uh
Absolutely. What's your mom's maiden name? Yeah. Okay. Just for security reasons, just for security password. What's your mom's maiden name? Oh, okay. Oh, it's that's that's okay. Thank you. It's like, oh, are you serious? Like, I would like you could have made something up. Give me your dog's name, you know, anything. But they give that and then listen, I would keep I never had anybody who would stop it halfway through. Like, as soon as they give me their social security number, you kicked in the door. Now you're in the house, right? They're giving you everything. So the ironic thing
is about three years later, I started getting notices from the IRS that I owed back taxes. And I thought, that's strange. Maybe I hit a $2,000 ticket to the racetrack that I didn't claim on. Oh, no. Someone said I made $270,000 a year, which got 70 grand in taxes. He used your social security? Someone used my social security. Who could that be?
I thought maybe it was Dave's rail. Okay. Was it? It wasn't, but there were, they let go of me at the bank because they felt like I was a distraction at work. Even though I was doing a great job and I wasn't full time, I was still a temp. They never brought me over and people were coming up to me. I don't blame them. And to be honest with you, I didn't want to live that far south. You know, it'd be like,
You going down to Sarasota, it's just too far of a drive, you know, it was too far. And my, my friends were all in West Palm Beach and Hollywood. That's a good hour and 15 minute drive. So, but I was still pissed that they, they, they, they gave me my walking papers because I was the top, you know, I was writing a lot of second mortgages, but
Yeah, people would come up to me, have you heard anything from Dave? I'm like, listen, you guys know him more than I do. I'm new here. Yeah, you lend him money. I didn't know him well enough to lend him any money. But, you know, like I said earlier, I'm thinking maybe he was just hoping that I wouldn't.
So, according to the website, he's fishing up in Alaska right now. As a commercial fisherman. Yeah, something like that.
Like Alaska, sea, what are the crabbers? Deadliest catch. Deadliest catch. Yeah. And let me tell you something. I grew up on boats. I love fishing, but A, it's way too cold. Yeah. It's bitter cold up there. And that is a rough job because
They treat you like shit if you're brand new going out on those boats. I was gonna say, you borrow money from those guys. You're done. You get keel-hauled if you do that. Tell me again about those antiques. But if you've noticed, if you know anything about Deadliest Catch, a lot of them get picked up for drugs and fraud theft, but they can go there to make quick money.
I was hoping. Maybe that's what he's doing. Maybe Dave's stockpiling money to pay everybody back. I don't think you're giving him credit. Yeah, I was hoping. You know what? I hope the guy hits for a million dollars and sends that guy David. I bet you if he hit for fucking 10 million, he ain't paying those people shit. I agree. They're never seen a dime. I was telling Colby, it's sad because he's such a fun guy to hang out with.
There's just some people they have that magnetic personality. I know a guy named me laugh. I know a guy named Red Bull loved hanging out with them. I wouldn't lend him a dime. I wouldn't. I never bought him anything that I didn't expect to absolutely not get it back. Yeah. It's like some guys I went to college with. They're great to hang out with, but you wouldn't let your sister date him. Right. That's exactly. Um, yeah, I, I,
That's insane. I knew, so I'm going to, I think, did I, have I ever told you about Jim Keegan? All right. So I'm going to tell you a story right now. Cause this reminded me of Jim Keegan. Jim Keegan's a guy that I met in federal prison. Jim Keegan was in federal prison for, um, for like he had embezzled
Some client money, right? So it was like wire fraud. Nobody else small. He got a minor sentence, maybe three years, maybe four years.
And so he'd embezzled some money and admittedly, he said he did do it. He was drinking and gambling, whatever the reason was. And he had already paid the money back, but the prosecutors, they hated him because he was a lawyer. He was a lawyer and he fought state criminal cases and he'd won at trial so many times that when they got him, they went to the U.S. attorney and when they actually found this out about the misappropriative funds,
in his law office, they just hammered him. They just wouldn't take a deal. I'm trying to give him 15 years because he'd beat the state so many times. He used to represent drug dealers and gang members and he'd gotten them off on murder charges. And so they just, they wanted him gone. So anything, even commingling funds, anything they can get, they're going to get him. Anything. And so he ends up in federal prison and he was like, yeah, I'm going to get out and I'm going to, I'm going to go to work for my brother. His brother was a lawyer. He's like, I'm going to go to work for my brother.
And i was like are you doing any legal work here? He's like no i don't do any legal work here i don't i don't want to do any legal work at all for anybody and he'd come from another prison by the way so another he'd be a low to low transfer because he said i want to be in florida and this and that and
People were constantly like you were a lawyer on the street. He was like, yeah, but I did criminal law state I haven't done I don't do federal and they would come to him and can you look at my case? Can you look at my case you got? Well, I'll look at it. I'll look at but I'm not gonna I can't do it Inmates have their paperwork on them. They're there most part. No, no for the most part They don't for the most part they get their sentence. They just don't do anything All right, but some guys get think they they can get over they can get something right at some time knocked off They gave me an enhancement for a gun. I didn't have I
They gave me 10 years, so it's worth fighting. If you can get the enhancement off, you got 15 years. 10 knocks off. You've already done two. You got five years. You know, you got a five year sentence plus gain time. Like you could be going to Halfway House if you win that enhancement. Right. And so Keegan was like, OK, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, I'll take a look at your stuff. And he'd look at it and he'd go, look, I mean, I looked at it. I talked to my brother about it. He came to see me and he did have a brother who owned a law firm in Orlando.
And he said, I talked to my brother about it, like you probably have a good case. My brother doesn't do, we both do state. He does more civil than I did. So yeah, and so people would, and he would tell people like, look, you know, I do, you can have your family look me up and they would look him up.
And sure enough, this dude was in the paper all the fucking time. Jim Keegan just won this murder trial, this murder trial. Like you could literally, there were probably eight different articles about him winning murder, I'm going for murder, winning the cases. Now, by the way, winning a murder case
is one of the easiest cases. Murder is one of the hardest things to prove. Because of reasonable doubt. You'd rather let a guilty man walk free than lock up an innocent man. Right. Let's face it, a lot of times it's super circumstantial. You're dead and you're dead and then it's up to the prosecutor to prove that I was there. There's no witness. It's so scary. You could literally go and pick something up
a hat that you might like. And then a person that's a victim buys that hat, takes it home. And with touch DNA now, right. They put you together with the guy. So your DNA was found in this murder. And you're like, no, I just picked that. Right. But let's say that that that's one of those things that you would just weird circumstantial things that just happened in life. And that gets very scary. There's a lot of people that have been locked up.
that were innocent and now DNA is proving them innocent. Right. Well, that's something totally different. What we're talking about is that this guy got him off on murder, like he was getting off people on murder. So they didn't like him. They sent him to prison. So here's what I'm saying is that people, because he didn't want to do legal work, people are constantly coming to him begging him to do legal work because they're looking at he's a lawyer and he's great. He's a great lawyer. And because they're looking at the newspaper, they see that he's been super successful. So his story makes sense.
People start giving him money. Like, bro, he's like, look, honestly, I can't. I mean, he's like, look, I'll do your case for you. I'm going to work, but I'm leaving here in like eight months to a year. I'll be in the halfway house and I'm going to be working at my brother's law office. You can have your family look up my brother, too. They would look him up. Sure enough, there's a law office. His brother's name is like, whatever, Bill Keegan or Tom Keegan. And they're like, oh, wow. Like, it's a pretty odd name. Right.
And so people would see his brother come. He would also sometimes call his brother and say, can you pull this guy's docket sheet? So think about it. I can order my docket sheet, but it's going to take me two weeks to get it, maybe three weeks. But he would say, give me your docket number or your criminal number. OK. And then he'd come back two hours later and he'd have a printout where his brother pulled it. Like, you're like, wow, he really works at a fucking law firm. So this is his brother. This guy's connected. He could get research done.
So he would say, look, I'll take your case. But honestly, man, it's like $3,500. I mean, I can't charge you. Well, you're in you're in you're in prison. So, you know, like I can work on it. And if I don't finish it by the time I by the time I leave, I'll be at my brother, my brother's law office. So I'll finish it while I'm there. So guys are like going to their parents, going to their family, coming up with the $3,500. They're putting it on his books.
or he'd say, send it to my brother. They're sending it to his brother, his brother's cat, you know, personal, not to his, to the law firm, but they're sending him 1500 bucks. Like, Hey, give him, put a thousand in my books. Send my brother 1500. That's 2500 or whatever. So he, he, he's even though he's like, no, no, no, they're begging to give him money, begging. Their families are coming up with the money. This guy stockpiles. I don't know what it was. 20, $30,000 within the last few months. Right.
He gets out of prison. He goes to the halfway house. Nobody hears from him. People start worrying. He's got my legal work. He was filing motions. My family gave him $3,500. My family gave him $2,500. My family, I bought this guy $2,000 worth of commissary. I put money on this guy's books and this guy, he's got money being sent everywhere. But he's explained that, look, I got to get out. I got to this. People start calling his brother's law firm.
His brother is like, my brother's not a lawyer. My brother's a fucking con man. What are you talking about? My brother went to jail because he was doing the books for somebody and he was embezzling money from their business. And that's why he went to jail. And he's been to jail before. And they're like, no, my family looked him up. He was in the Chicago Tribune. Like, no, no, my brother's name is Jim Keegan.
My father's name is Jim Keegan. My father was a big-time attorney. And he's like, do the math, bro. It's the 1984 story. Do you think it's me? He would have been 23 years old when he tried that case. He would have been 28 years old. Look at the photos. He's like, look at the photos. That's my dad. Of course the person at
the person at home looking up the doesn't realize that you're not they don't see what Jim Keegan looks like like this guy would be 70 something Jim Keegan's 50 like it you know so it's like it's like holy shit listen it was and I hate to say this but it was hilarious that is where and and so what happened and this is what's even more funny this is the only reason it reminds me of what you said right I had a literary agent at the time
And I remember telling the literary agent like, holy shit, you're not going to fucking like I was telling him about it, the whole thing. Right. Um, and he, so he knew about it. So what happens is it turns out that a lot of these people started, their family started writing letters to the bar saying, I gave this lawyer money.
For his brother who was in prison and I gave him money. So his brother starts just paying people back because they're saying the bar is like saying first thing that what they say is we don't get involved in legal fee disputes. Right. But they also are writing letters to him saying you have to answer this. So he's scared. He starts cutting checks for thirty five hundred twenty five hundred fifteen hundred thirty five hundred. I even knew a guy that wrote a letter to him saying I gave your brother
This guy, even if he was a lawyer, he's great at getting
Aren't we at the appeal process and that's a special? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
Or you can try and get around the one year time bar. It's called equitable tolling by making an argument. And listen, if you don't know any better, here's the worst thing about the law is that you could file a nice guy motion. You know what a nice guy motion is? Nice guy is Dave's a nice guy. You should let him out of jail and you could write it in green crown and send it into the federal court.
And they would answer it like it was a legitimate thing. They'd say, you know, we are we are currently replying to the nice guy motion filed by by Dave stating that he is a nice guy and should be let out of jail under, you know, under Johnson versus the United States. It is clear that he is time barred. And they would they wouldn't be like, is this a joke?
They would act like so I could not know anything and there are guys in right now in federal prison who act like their jailhouse lawyers and they'll file motion. They'll take give me five hundred dollars. They'll file motions with you. And if you don't know anything about the law, you think they do and they don't know shit and the court responds like it's a legitimate argument. So you have no clue. But put that aside.
So here's the second part of that, is that one day my literary agent comes to see me. I want to say he was in person. He might have just called me on the phone. I might have just talked to him on the phone. But he said, listen, Matt, he said, do you know a guy named Jim Keegan? And I said, yeah. Why? I said, remember I told you about him? And he goes, OK. He said, I thought it might be him. He goes, listen to this. He said, I went into a bar in Orlando. I was visiting a buddy.
Who owns a bar in Orlando said I happen to be in the Orlando for some other reason because this guy was actually from like Clearwater or something. So he so my literary agent went to Orlando for some reason goes to a visit a buddy who owns a bar goes into the bar and while he's in the bar, he's sitting there talking to he's talking to the bartender and something came up where
He ended up saying something and Jim Keegan was there and Keegan said to him, and I forget exactly how it, but he ended up saying Reback, because the guy's last name was Reback. He's like, Reback. He goes, it's funny. He said, I got a buddy who has a lawyer named Reback. And he goes, that's an odd name. That's a very, you know, and he said, really? He said, who's your buddy? He goes, oh, he's a writer. He's named Matt Cox. And he goes,
Yeah, he said, I'm Ross Reback. He is Matt Cox's client of mine because I'm not a lawyer, though. He said, I'm a literary agent or his agent. He said, yeah, he's in prison. He said, how do you know him? And he looked at him and you got to think that's not this. But, you know, he looked at him and he went, oh, I had I actually did some legal work for him.
And he said, Oh, you did? And he goes, Yeah, yeah, I did. He said, Oh, what's your name? He said, Oh, my name is. He said, Oh, it's Jim. He said, You know what? I'll get you a business card. Hold on a second goes to his girlfriend because he was sitting with some woman. And so Ross turns to his buddy who owns the bar.
and says, um, Oh, you know him because yeah, he comes in here all the time with us. He comes in here probably two, three times a week, but they live around his girlfriend. She's got a bunch of money. She was, he was a very nice neighborhood. Right. Yeah. She lives around here. They come in all the time. He's okay. He said, well, he walked outside. He said about a minute later, the girl gets up and walks outside and he said, five minutes go by 10 minutes go by 15.
He walks outside, he's like the guy that they had pulled up in like a Mercedes, it's gone. And he turns around and he goes, what's that guy's name? Because he said Jim. What's his name? And he goes, well, he paid with his credit card. Hold on. He pulls out his slip and he goes, Jim Keegan.
And he's like, OK, cool. Yeah. And so he so when I talk to Ross Ross, do you know a guy named Jim Keegan? And I was like, yeah, this is the guy who's like, fuck, I knew it was the guy. I knew it. Yeah. He said, this is what happened. And he tells me the whole thing. I was like, holy shit. And I said, yeah, bro, you're you're never going to see him again. He said, I know I'm not. That had been weeks and weeks. He said, my buddy said he came in three times a week at least. Sure. He said it had been two weeks. He'd never come back in. You know, it's funny. It's bolted is Paul heard that after he left.
To go to spring training. Srails showed up at Rotama racetrack, but he didn't want no La Duca around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He told you bolted. Yeah. So, but what I was gonna say is Keegan, by the way, if you look it up, got, he was on probation, got rearrested because he then opened up a, he opened up a, um, opened up a, uh, whatever, an office, a law office.
saying that he was filing claims for him. He was an immigration lawyer taking money for immigrant. He was charging fifteen hundred to thirty five hundred dollars. That's big money for immigrant to file immigration papers. Big money. Yeah. And he had he borrowed something like half a million dollars in about or he got like half a million dollars in like less than less than a year and was actually here's a really funny part was giving. So after a certain period of time,
He was actually, I want to say it was more than that. It actually says it in the article. I ought to pull up that article. He was actually giving out green cards, like the cards. He actually started making fake cards. And so guys are coming in, I gave you, I got it. Here's your card. Your card came in here. Now you're off doing your thing. So some of these guys get caught and start a whole investigation. And that's how we got grabbed that time. Goes back to jail again.
Did got 10 years, got out on COVID or something. He kept the same. You would think he closes office. No, no, this is another one. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's what I'm saying. You think you do it for six months or three months and then bolt, especially when people start coming in complaining. These guys aren't that smart. They, they think they're smarter and everybody's an idiot. Just like your buddy. They, you know, you got this guy to live it. You're borrowing from all these people in the same office, tell them the same lie, building up money. And then you
Yeah, I had a friend, you know, my friend, Matt, he was bogus. The appraisals were bogus and he wanted me to pretend like he was his lawyer. And luckily I said no, because they were watching him.
That's a completely different case that you're talking about. But it's another guy that thinks he's smarter than he really is. Had he not run, he wouldn't even have probably gone to jail. Anyways, I don't want anybody to have pity on Dave Srail because I forgot to tell you, when we were going through his bedroom, we found some girly bank magazines.
He had cut out pictures of my ex fiance, cause we all went out one night on the town and put it in place of the pictures on the girl's bodies and was hand feeding it to my ex's picture. That's just weird. That's just wrong. I mean, who would go out of their way to do it? Like thinking about my ex. Well, here's what I don't understand is like,
You said that whole time, like he never dated anybody? He's not a bad looking guy. What's weird was when he was at work, he wore his hair really long and it looked goofy because if you trim him up, he presents himself as 6'4". He was a big dude.
Was he wearing a mullet? He kind of had a dumb looking mullet. There's two pictures. You can see both his hairstyles. He would change it when he'd go someplace else that was probably the South Florida hairstyle. And I'm like,
To me that that story would
That would get you laid more than anything. Of course! So why not play up on it? That's what I'm saying. If you're going to create this bullshit, why not take the benefit? Exactly. I mean, you either... You just have no game? That's why I was wondering if he was maybe a little... He likes showtunes, Matt. I was kind of like... Mentally, I wonder what's wrong with... You know? But why is he cutting pictures out of my old girlfriend and putting it in place?
Oh, man. All right. My mother's gonna listen. It's like, I can't believe he did that. Poor Rhea. So that's my story of living with a con man for six months and seeing the whole thing unfold. And unfortunately,
30 days for a knife. He really ruined a couple families lives. Right. And he knows how much damage he's really done. Those are the things that are extremely obvious that you've come across. Who knows how many little tiny things. And we would later find out he did the same thing in Ohio for well over $100,000. And he just kept repeating the process wherever he went. And the government says, that's a civil matter.
But if you steal from a bank, we're going to throw you in prison. Right. I mean, that's got my mind going, you know what I'm saying? It's got the gears going, but yeah. It just seems very unfair. Listen, if I did that, if I clipped somebody for 200,000, 300,000, they would say it's fraud. Yeah, of course. You're going to prison. Of course. Because just because they're like, yeah, it's you. Yeah. I wouldn't have old Dave's luck.
Yeah, yeah. You might be right, but it just doesn't make sense. It's sad. The real sad thing is even if they went and arrested the guy, they're never going to get anything. He's going to make restitution payments. Keep them out of prison. Make them work to pay it off. Because that's what the people need is money. Don't send them to jail. Well, first of all, mentally like this, there are some people that no matter what you do,
They're gonna they're gonna run some kind of con and me obviously is again. He's he's Addicted to gambling. Yes, but you said he wasn't bad at it. You said he lost hundreds of thousand dollars But that's the whole thing when he was really a great handicapper such the fact that Thistle Downs Hired him as their on-track handicapper and he did the TV show and
He showed me tapes of it. This wasn't him saying, I saw it with my own eyes. He did a TV show. This'll downs a little track in Ohio, but Dave was really a good handicapper. And if he set his mind to it and he manages money's right, you know, they don't build these tracks on people winning. They build people losing. But there are some guys that, you know, if you pick your spots,
But Dave couldn't control himself. So like when I told the story about him being at the high life front on, he's betting Australia at eight o'clock in the morning. That's what he was doing. Right. If he would have just kept his gambling just to the weekends, probably maybe he wouldn't have lost so much, but this guy just got to have action. And I think that was his ultimate undoing. The sad thing was he lived in the straight and narrow probably four or five years. And it was that last year down here in Florida that
It really got to them. It's like being an alcoholic. They've been great for five years and then they have won six months. They've lost everything. Yeah, yeah. And gambling is such an issue, especially if you're competitive. When you lose, you want to get back up and go right back at it. Right. And so you're more engaged
More engaged. Is that you? Yeah, it must be the people showing up to fix the AC. You wanna take it? Speaking of marriage though. What? Braille. What? So if the ex-fiance is fake. Right. And didn't have any chicks down there. So if the ex-fiance is fake and didn't go after any chicks, apparently he and Avelina dated very briefly. Was he afraid to bring a woman into his con?
I have no idea. I dated a chick that I remember she had told me that she dated a guy because I remember we had gone on a few dates. This was 20 years ago. I remember we'd gone on like one date or two dates and I remember she was like, we had slept together and she said, do you have any fetishes? And I was like, well, what do you mean? And she goes,
she said i just want to make sure that you're just like a normal like there's nothing weird and i was like why i was like have you've dated some guys that have some weird stuff she goes yeah because i dated a guy that literally she said he had like a feet fetish and i was like are you she's like like he literally wanted me to lube up my feet and he would it's she's it was
You and I were on Match.com about the same time and I remember I used to go to Tampa Orlando meet some girls that Becky how but I didn't run to her because let me tell you something
You're a better man than me. She would have been hog-tied duct tape. I would have taken more than half of the money and said, here you go, honey. I'm out of here. Yeah, that's not. You're a good man. You left her with a bunch of money. I tell you what. She didn't last. She lasted about a year. That's the type of woman that I would date thinking, oh, I feel bad for her. She's bipolar. And then next thing you know, I'm wondering, what am I doing?
Oh, listen, I thought it all the time. She had me, too. She had me. She'd cry. I'm a sucker for girls that cry. Yeah, I start crying, and I feel bad. But anyway, you ready?
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Ever seen an origami version of the Miami Bull? Jokes aside, Verizon has the most ways to save on phones and plans where everyone in the family can choose their own plan and save. So bring in your bill to your local Miami Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home.
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"text": " So I was just going to the racetrack basically. And so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us, really played it cool. And that's what a con man needs to do. Kind of worked his way in, but we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners and if he won, he would buy us around a drink. And Dave's like, Hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work?"
},
{
"end_time": 187.944,
"index": 6,
"start_time": 162.688,
"text": " I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby, because that's my thing. I'm in horse racing. And Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. OK, so that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on. And I'd see him talking to people, but everybody was Dave's friend at the office. This guy, everybody loved him."
},
{
"end_time": 218.166,
"index": 7,
"start_time": 188.268,
"text": " Hey, this is Matt Cox and I'm going to be doing an interview with Dave Wheelhauer and we're going to be talking about a con man. So check out the check out the video."
},
{
"end_time": 246.288,
"index": 8,
"start_time": 218.677,
"text": " Dave, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I got a little story to tell you. I know. So you contacted me. You said, hey, man, listen, I knew this guy. He was a con man. This is an insane story. And then we talked on the phone a couple of times. And you like you're not obviously the con man, but you were you ended up living with this guy and you were friends with him for how long? I lived with him for six months. Right. And I kind of watched the whole thing unfold."
},
{
"end_time": 273.626,
"index": 9,
"start_time": 246.561,
"text": " I saw the tragic end when he skipped town in the end, but we'll get to that. And, but I, I just saw the way he manipulated people and it's a pretty amazing story. And it's, and this guy had known these people for six, seven years. So it's not like some guy that just came in someone's life, but he was a con man. So he was setting them all up on a long con. What happened? Like how, like, when did you ever find out like, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 301.442,
"index": 10,
"start_time": 274.48,
"text": " Had he ever done this before? He'd done it before. Right. And then what? So then he comes into town. He starts over. He moves to Florida. Where had he lived before? Cleveland, Ohio. And he'd done it in Cleveland. Yes. What had he done there? He had ripped people off about over $150,000. Okay. And his parents had to pay to make the people whole. All right. So he moves to Florida, works for a commercial fisherman for a while."
},
{
"end_time": 327.568,
"index": 11,
"start_time": 301.988,
"text": " Then he gets a job with ABN Amro. That's the amalgamated bank of Amsterdam, Rotterdam. They're like the fourth or fifth largest bank in the world. LaSalle Bank, if you're familiar with them, out of Chicago. OK, I'm not. Well, they were big back in the day. When was this? 2005. You're about to start your adventure. And I was going on a little venture of my own there. So it's 2005. I had just shattered my femur."
},
{
"end_time": 355.026,
"index": 12,
"start_time": 329.036,
"text": " fallen off a roof. I'm a former financial advisor. Who does roofing? Well, I wasn't really a roofer. I had another way to make some money. I had friends that paint, so I was painting a roof. I wasn't actually a roof. I had a guy that I used to work with at Payne Webber, UBS. UBS Payne Webber said, I need my roof painted. The homeowners insurance association is coming after me."
},
{
"end_time": 376.305,
"index": 13,
"start_time": 355.401,
"text": " So make a long story short. I gave him a quote. I didn't hear from him six months later. I come back. The tile breaks. I fall. I shatter my femur. I'm learning to walk again. And so I was just going to the racetrack basically at the Palm Beach Kennel Club. So you're not working? Not working. Staying with mom and dad."
},
{
"end_time": 404.548,
"index": 14,
"start_time": 376.988,
"text": " Right. Mom taking care of me. Let me tell you something. When you wake up, see the beautiful sunrise, your body heals faster. They lived on the beach. It was great. So this was spring training 2005, my buddy, Jeff Cox, we call him Coxie. Uh, I've known him for years. He said, Hey, I'm going to bring Paul LaDuca by when he's a new Marlin. He got traded the year before to come up and hang out with us. So,"
},
{
"end_time": 422.449,
"index": 15,
"start_time": 405.725,
"text": " I'm hanging out with Paul and Coxie and there was this guy sitting in the corner, kind of kept to himself, had a bag of pens in his racing form, and slowly but surely, especially after Paul's wife went back to San Antonio, we were there Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, Sunday."
},
{
"end_time": 452.739,
"index": 16,
"start_time": 422.875,
"text": " in a major league baseball, you have to play about five innings and then you can leave. And Paul had horses that he owned at the time. So he would drive from Jupiter to West Palm beach and watch him run. So I'm having a blast just hanging out with these guys, especially when they make $8 million a year and hanging out with Coxie and Paul. And so this guy sitting in the corner didn't bug us, really played it cool. And that's what a con man needs to do. Kind of worked his way in."
},
{
"end_time": 481.988,
"index": 17,
"start_time": 453.319,
"text": " But we noticed he was a pretty good handicapper. He would pick some winners and if he won, he would buy us a round of drinks. And not that I'm an expert, but in my life, I've noticed if you want to be friends with a celebrity or be cool, don't ask him for anything. Don't ask for autographs. Don't be annoying. They want to be treated like something. Yeah. You know, just they want to be treated like a regular dude. Right. And so I used to be a sports agent."
},
{
"end_time": 509.582,
"index": 18,
"start_time": 483.063,
"text": " And I had to, we would go to the second floor in this little cubby hole cafe because I wanted to keep Paul away from, I hate to call him riff-raff, but a lot of the people in the Kennel Club, they're just brutal. And, you know, they're probably Mets or Yankees fans and they're giving Paul grief because he plays for the Marlins. And I remember one guy saying, hey, LaDuke, I didn't know you're so short. And he'd say, yeah, but when I stand in my wallet, I'm a lot taller than you. So."
},
{
"end_time": 538.234,
"index": 19,
"start_time": 510.094,
"text": " So anyways, time goes on and we just befriend this guy. He said his name's Dave, David Scott Srail. My name's David Scott Wilhauer. Hey, that's nice. He's from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm from Michigan. So he's a Buckeye, I'm a Wolverine, but he was just a super nice guy. And so then Paul was talking to him, Coxie's talking to him. So he kind of joined our little group for that month and a half every weekend."
},
{
"end_time": 566.152,
"index": 20,
"start_time": 539.599,
"text": " in the spring of 05. So about April, Coxie and Paul, you know, the big club's going to go play at the old pro player stadium where the Dolphins play now. They've since moved to downtown Miami, but the Marlins played right out on the right by Calder race course. And so we were, I was thinking, Hey, I'm going to go, uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 591.937,
"index": 21,
"start_time": 566.817,
"text": " the racetrack and then I go see boys play baseball and Dave's like, hey, why don't you come move in with me and get a job where I work? And I was like, well, what do you do? He's like, well, it's a mortgage company. He's like, you'd be great selling mortgages. Like, man, I don't know anything about mortgage. He's like, listen, you start out as a temp and then"
},
{
"end_time": 622.5,
"index": 22,
"start_time": 593.046,
"text": " Eventually, if you do really well, they'll hire you on full time. I started as a temp. I make great money there. He said, you'd be great selling mortgage. If you were a stockbroker, you could be a mortgage broker. He's like, then you'll be close to your buddies down there. Right. And so when I say down there, it's about 50, 60 miles south of where we're at. So and I didn't have any other options at the time. And this guy is offering to let me live in his house on the beach. Right. And at first I was like,"
},
{
"end_time": 652.398,
"index": 23,
"start_time": 622.91,
"text": " Was he all right? He was a pretty cool dude. Eventually, I remember talking to Paul about it, and he's like, yeah, the guy's straight, why not? Just take him up on the offer, can't hurt. I interviewed, I got the job at ABN Amro, and I was selling second loans, and he locked home equity lines of credit. Their full-time people do first mortgages."
},
{
"end_time": 681.493,
"index": 24,
"start_time": 653.131,
"text": " Every once in a while, it's a call center. I forgot to mention that it's inbound calls. So all you're doing is taking calls all day long. Right. And so it's like if you made, if I made commission on it, I'd be making silly money, but they paid me 15 bucks an hour and I've got to prove to them that I'm good enough to work full time. Right. So, and it was going great. And then like Dave would pay, we'd go out to dinner, he'd pay."
},
{
"end_time": 710.913,
"index": 25,
"start_time": 682.022,
"text": " I'm thinking this guy's rolling, right? He must be really doing well, but he works in the, he didn't, he didn't sell loans. He did the, uh, quality control, uh, processor, the processing. Okay. He works in the processing department. And so, but he drove a nice convertible BMW and his house was right on Arizona street."
},
{
"end_time": 741.22,
"index": 26,
"start_time": 711.357,
"text": " and Hollywood Beach. It was a little two-bedroom place. I mean, it needed some work, but it was a really cool place because you know what they say about real estate, the three most important things are location, location, and location. And this guy is 600 yards from the waves, right down on the beach. So it was a great location. So I'm living with my new friend working there, and I ended up doing really well. I was writing like 250 second loans or"
},
{
"end_time": 765.742,
"index": 27,
"start_time": 741.613,
"text": " home act lines of credit a month. Nice. But again, I'm getting calls and I've got a lot of them are LaSalle or Avian Amro customers. So their information comes up there. And so I've just fill in the blanks. Some people you had to turn them away. They got 5.25% and they want to refinance at five and you have to explain to them with closing. It just doesn't make sense with closing costs. So"
},
{
"end_time": 790.64,
"index": 28,
"start_time": 766.886,
"text": " Now, in the end, I was thinking, I don't think he wanted me to do well, and we'll get that figured out later on. I'll get your guys' opinion on that, because he had scams that he was working on, but I didn't know it at the time. So at ABN Amro, everybody would go out into Smoker's Alley. I didn't smoke, but"
},
{
"end_time": 817.381,
"index": 29,
"start_time": 790.964,
"text": " I just had to take a break because my back, my hip, blah, blah, blah. And I'd see him talking to people, but everybody was Dave's friend at the office. This guy, everybody loved him. And I remember one night, I think it's May, I'm waiting for him at the quarterdeck to have dinner. I'm like, dude, where are you? Someone's car didn't start. He stayed on behind to help him."
},
{
"end_time": 847.722,
"index": 30,
"start_time": 817.807,
"text": " He was that dude at the office that helped the little old ladies. He'll help you move. He was that guy. I was like, this guy's unbelievable. You know, I know nobody's perfect and he showed some of his other qualities that weren't great, but you know, he's just a human being like the rest of us. So I remember he told me that a girl that he used to date, Avelina,"
},
{
"end_time": 877.363,
"index": 31,
"start_time": 848.695,
"text": " He introduced her to Travis. Travis is a mortgage broker. Avelina works in the office near him and they're good friends and they work at AB and Amro there. And I had mentioned something about watching the Kentucky Derby because that's my thing. I'm in horse racing and Dave said, hey, at work, don't mention horse racing. At least don't include me. I'm like, why? He's like, eh, people have"
},
{
"end_time": 899.684,
"index": 32,
"start_time": 879.138,
"text": " You know, they think it's degenerate gambling, whatnot. He's like, please don't, don't say anything about me and horse racing and whatnot. He's like, just tell him to go antiquing. I'm like, there's no chance I'm going to tell anybody I'm going to antique. Right. But he's like, just keep my name out of it. I thought that was weird."
},
{
"end_time": 920.094,
"index": 33,
"start_time": 900.452,
"text": " in the"
},
{
"end_time": 949.957,
"index": 34,
"start_time": 921.288,
"text": " If you guys want to invest and he paid them all back and then some they made a nice little score with him. So he's building credit with all these people at work. Now, I don't know this. I just think it's Travis and Avelina. But I just remember he was really upset when I said it's Kentucky Derby because that same week's my birthday. That's like my favorite week of the year. And so I just remembered, wow, that's the first time I saw him kind of get mad at me. I was like,"
},
{
"end_time": 979.531,
"index": 35,
"start_time": 950.555,
"text": " I was like, all right, bro, just, I'm not going to tell them I'm going antiquing. Right. So I've worked going fine. I'm, I'm doing well. I'm progressing there. I remember one day he had a Friday off and my car wouldn't start. And he said he was going antiquing. Right. I was like, all right, knock yourself out. I'll see you later. We'll meet at the bar, you know, something like that."
},
{
"end_time": 1005.947,
"index": 36,
"start_time": 981.408,
"text": " And I called my uncle and he's like, I'll come down, jump you. And he's got to drive like 45 miles. He's the only person I could find. One of the lifeguard friends of ours that we play poker with at night says, Hey, I'll give you a jumpstart. So I called my uncle back and said, hold off. He said, I'm still going to meet you. Meet me at Pep Boys. We've got to get you new battery. The weather turns hot. Batteries go bad. So turn off jumpstart."
},
{
"end_time": 1036.084,
"index": 37,
"start_time": 1006.834,
"text": " But when I turned the car off, wouldn't restart, needs a new battery. I drive, meet my uncle, I come back. And in Florida, in the East Coast, you have intercoastal waterways. You've got to go over the bridge to get back because we live, you know, the ocean side of the intercoastal. And I remember driving by Dania Highlight because that was just the way back to the house. And I saw Dave's car sitting there at like 11 o'clock in the morning. Okay. I thought, that's weird. Maybe his antiquing got done early."
},
{
"end_time": 1064.991,
"index": 38,
"start_time": 1037.056,
"text": " It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home, a mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts."
},
{
"end_time": 1099.036,
"index": 39,
"start_time": 1074.087,
"text": " What's he doing there? Now they show simulcast racing from Australia and England and all that. So I'm like, Oh, that guy, he's junking out, betting the ponies. Right. So when I called him later, he pretended like he was still antiquing. I was like, when we say antiquing, we mean buying antiquing. So you think he's really going antiquing. I thought I antiquing was code for I'm at the race. Exactly."
},
{
"end_time": 1128.541,
"index": 40,
"start_time": 1099.701,
"text": " So when you say antiquing, you're saying you really think he was going antiquing? He was trying to tell me he was antiquing. I'm thinking he's going to the racetrack. I don't care. Right. My problem there was I caught him in a lie. Right. You don't need to lie to me. Tell me. Yeah, dude, I'm betting Royal Ascot. It's showing it. Yeah, great. There's no reason. No reason to lie to me. And I just thought that was funny that he's trying to sell one over on me on a Friday that he didn't have to go to work."
},
{
"end_time": 1148.814,
"index": 41,
"start_time": 1129.428,
"text": " And you're living with him. Yeah, and I'm living with him. And I just thought that was really odd because he finally came up with the story. Oh no, I did go antique, you know, because what he would say he would do, his brother has, Ken Srail has an antique and stamp company."
},
{
"end_time": 1176.254,
"index": 42,
"start_time": 1149.445,
"text": " So it's one of those things he knows all about it, living vicariously through his brother. So giving his brother's line out there to people, like he's an expert at it. And I'm sure Dave grew up, he knows the antique business a little bit. We did have some pieces where he had some pieces in the house there. He's like, don't set your drink on that table. That's worth about a thousand dollars. No, I was like, Oh, you know, so he knew his stuff. And so,"
},
{
"end_time": 1206.544,
"index": 43,
"start_time": 1177.722,
"text": " But he didn't need to lie to me when all he had to say was, yeah, I'm done. I got done antique, you know, looking at antiques because what are you seeing was doing was he would go to these sales and he knew wealthy people that were looking for something. So if he find the piece, he would just play middleman and broker it and make a couple hundred dollars. So that's what he was doing when Avelino was giving him three hundred dollars. He was just going to the racetrack. And even if he lost, he was just giving her more money to build up credit."
},
{
"end_time": 1235.111,
"index": 44,
"start_time": 1206.852,
"text": " But what he tells them he's doing is he's buying pieces and flipping them basically. Right. So when I say antiquing, like flipping antiques to make money. Okay. So that was the only really thing that made me hesitate early on. He did the same thing for my parents. My parents gave him a thousand bucks. He said, yeah, I've got some, some antiques that I'm going to go buy in Miami. And he left one day, came back, said, here's 1400 bucks for your mom and dad."
},
{
"end_time": 1255.913,
"index": 45,
"start_time": 1236.22,
"text": " You know, I was like, wow, that's an easy way to make 40% on your money pretty fast. And again, that builds credibility. And so, you know, he would give me grief about the music that I listened to. And I just like this guy named Josh Rouse because I met him, but I like Van Halen and U2 and those are my bands."
},
{
"end_time": 1283.558,
"index": 46,
"start_time": 1256.51,
"text": " But he wanted to play Counting Crows, but I remember he would just needle me like, let's listen to Josh Rouse. You know, just make funny. So it's not like he was perfect. Mr. Cool. He wouldn't be a goofball. He could act like a douche bag, but then I was like, Hey, I remember saying, Hey, at least I'm the one, the Metro sexual guy everybody's questioning about. And he goes in his room and he comes out. This is Jen."
},
{
"end_time": 1311.681,
"index": 47,
"start_time": 1286.084,
"text": " That's my ex fiance. She died of cancer. And I felt like a shit bag. Is it true? I doubt it. But I mean, he's definitely, I'm like, Oh, he's got pictures of her. He's got a whole story about her. And I'm like, Oh, I can't believe I did that. So he's got his con game down."
},
{
"end_time": 1339.906,
"index": 48,
"start_time": 1312.329,
"text": " I'm like, Oh Dave, put your foot in your mouth. I remember I walked outside and he's like, bro, he's like, you're a Dick, but it's okay, man. He's not the first one. I was like, Hey, as long as you're not going to come, come hop in my bed at night. I don't care. You know, right. So we just played it. We're dudes, you know, we're playing it off. I said, I just, you know, we got all these hot chicks around here. It's like, man, I just can't get, I can't get Jen out of my head."
},
{
"end_time": 1371.186,
"index": 49,
"start_time": 1342.073,
"text": " And I said, I understand. You poor tortured soul, let me invest in some antiques. And what's crazy is I had been engaged July of 02, spent a good seven grand at wilderness lodge and 20 days later I was unengaged. And that's because I loved her dearly. We just weren't in love. Right. And you know, if I hadn't proposed, we'd probably still be dating, you know, as one of those things we just had to do something."
},
{
"end_time": 1397.722,
"index": 50,
"start_time": 1371.613,
"text": " just cut the cord and be done. She and I are still dear friends. But, uh, so I was, it was kind of weird. I had always had a serious girlfriend, but I was kind of playing the field and I'm in a new territory. And it was just kind of weird in the, the, the bar rats. That's not really my, my scene there. Cause there was plenty of girls would be intoxicated and Dave's like, bring one home. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that."
},
{
"end_time": 1427.585,
"index": 51,
"start_time": 1398.336,
"text": " That's never been my deal. And I was like, why don't you bring one home? And then, you know, that's kind of what precipitated the whole thing. So he explains to me back in Cleveland, he got engaged, this high school sweetheart, Jen, developed cancer, and just he took care of her. She went downhill. And so he came to Florida, worked on a fishing boat, just need a new break. And I was like, you know, that was six years ago, but it was still obviously really bothering him."
},
{
"end_time": 1456.476,
"index": 52,
"start_time": 1428.831,
"text": " So I had to mention my buddy Matt, who I went to college with and he had Section 8 apartments and houses and he bought stuff and he's like, you know, as a senior management at AB and AMRO, we've got a bunch of foreclosures. He said Matt would have to be partners with me, but we got a whole portfolio of foreclosures and we get first dibs on them."
},
{
"end_time": 1486.22,
"index": 53,
"start_time": 1457.637,
"text": " And so I get them on the phone with my college. Not exactly how it works, but okay. But you don't know any better. I didn't know any better at the time. And he's got the appraisals on company letterhead. We go and look at the houses. Right. He's like, here's one in Pembroke Pines. It's a two, two. Um, you know, I think the company got 38 invested into it. If we, you know, so I didn't know any better."
},
{
"end_time": 1514.172,
"index": 54,
"start_time": 1486.63,
"text": " And I'm talking to Matt and Matt's one of those guys. He's, he did well for himself, but he thinks he's smarter than he is. Right. And his brother and I used to go, Hey Matt, we've given you our knowledge. You've chose to disregard it. So good luck. You know, he's one of those guys. So anyway, Matt ends up sending him like 30 grand."
},
{
"end_time": 1544.974,
"index": 55,
"start_time": 1516.203,
"text": " but I really didn't stay that in tune with that. I just knew that Matt had bought a couple of houses and they were looking at a third. Now understand, I go to the racetrack with this guy all the time, but he's not whipping out five, 10 grand. That's something my baseball buddies do. You know, he's just, he's betting pretty moderately here, but I do remember him playing a pick six and he lost in the last race."
},
{
"end_time": 1569.445,
"index": 56,
"start_time": 1546.032,
"text": " And the look on his face was like someone died. Like he really needed the horse to win. I was like, Oh man. And come to find out it was like, if he would have hit, it would have been like two or 300,000. That would have cleared a lot of his troubles. Right. And so, but you know, I didn't know it at the time, but he really needed that money and he was pretty salty on the ride home. And that's,"
},
{
"end_time": 1596.834,
"index": 57,
"start_time": 1570.196,
"text": " and I never really saw that side of him. He was just really angry and frustrated, but you know, being a guy that likes to gamble. Hey, I understand that. And I just thought that was, Hey, just had some bad luck at the racetrack, but what his problem is, is his time's running out and he's, you know, we'll get to it, but his, his time's running out. He's got to come up with some serious money soon here. So,"
},
{
"end_time": 1626.101,
"index": 58,
"start_time": 1598.131,
"text": " There wasn't too much more to tip me off, but I finally started thinking, this just doesn't make sense. Remember when you said you were at the bank and the bank guys said, ah, I can't put my finger on it, but something's not right here. And you said, well, I'm sure it will come to you. So I was kind of, it's just your intuition. Something told me something was really off."
},
{
"end_time": 1652.142,
"index": 59,
"start_time": 1626.527,
"text": " You know what the main thing was? I didn't go in his room and when you peeked in there, it was a pigsty. People that do well normally take care of their stuff. You typically need to have an organized mind in order to be an organized person. You can fake it, but you can't fake it all the time if it's just not true to your nature."
},
{
"end_time": 1679.019,
"index": 60,
"start_time": 1652.142,
"text": " Very well said, Matt. His mattress looked like he hadn't washed his sheets in three years. It was that. It had like the sweat stains on it. I'm like, oh my gosh, that looks like a prison cell. And I'm no neat freak, but I started rebelling from him, like making up my bed every day and just trying to be like, hey, if girls ever come back here, are you going to bring one in that room? And so"
},
{
"end_time": 1708.285,
"index": 61,
"start_time": 1680.964,
"text": " We would play poker games at night on the weekends. There was this place called Mulvaney's, a beach bar we would go to. And he would pay every time, Matt. And I was like, dude, I'm not your girlfriend. Right. You know, and I grew up with a father that always picked up the check. And so it's just my nature. If I'm taking a check out, even if we're on the friends, I'm paying. I'm just paying. It's just, that's the reality. I'm paying."
},
{
"end_time": 1730.35,
"index": 62,
"start_time": 1709.258,
"text": " You know, I'm old school like that. It's just what it is. So, and it just, I just remember thinking, this is weird. So one Saturday I'm at home, mail goes through the slot and it says Bank of America statement. I opened it."
},
{
"end_time": 1758.763,
"index": 63,
"start_time": 1732.363,
"text": " totally inappropriate but anyway what is that you know what looks you and i feel bad i feel bad nobody feels worse about this than me but that fucker was thick i i did feel bad but he's got my my buddy matt money for 30 grand 30 grand and matt just told me i'm giving him another 15 and i'm like i don't know dude hold off make sure these"
},
{
"end_time": 1788.319,
"index": 64,
"start_time": 1759.343,
"text": " First couple deals go through. What are you giving them more money for? Right. So I opened up and I figured, Hey, I'm a little sketchy myself. I'll glue it back together. Make it look good. Like it wasn't open. Yeah. Or it didn't show up. Yeah. Yeah. You're missing. Yep. I have a couple of things not show up here too. Yeah. Mom and dad's credit card when you're a kid. Oh, this must my statement. That goes bye bye. Right? Yeah. Kids don't do that."
},
{
"end_time": 1817.551,
"index": 65,
"start_time": 1789.07,
"text": " So I looked, he got the money from Matt. It didn't go to the bank. It would withdraw, withdraw, withdraw. Right. But I didn't say anything to him because I thought, how would I know? Maybe he and the vice president of the bank are putting one over on Matt. Yeah, he's partners in the deal, but they're pocketing their profits upfront. Right. So you don't know exactly how the money is distributed. I don't know exactly how they made the arrangement."
},
{
"end_time": 1847.005,
"index": 66,
"start_time": 1818.251,
"text": " but I kind of know. And I remember we're in August and we started getting some really bad rainstorms and there were some hurricanes in 05. There was Charlie, there was Katrina and Wilma later on. And my grandma wasn't staying in her place in Lighthouse Point. And I remember Dave, I was staying up there. I would spend a lot of nights up there cause I started seeing this chick"
},
{
"end_time": 1873.012,
"index": 67,
"start_time": 1847.824,
"text": " It was kind of get away from him. I'd kind of had my fill with him. Now, I'll be the first to tell you, he's an amazing dude to hang out with. He's a lot of fun. He's very charismatic, and that's why people like him. My buddy at AB and Amro that taught me the mortgage business, Kevin Goodenow, thought that guy's shady. There's something about him I don't like, and he's the only person in the whole office"
},
{
"end_time": 1892.654,
"index": 68,
"start_time": 1873.78,
"text": " That thought Dave was shady. What's weird was Dave would say, I don't like that guy, Kevin. I was like, Kevin's taught me the mortgage business better than anybody. And Kevin ended up getting hired on full time. That's what I'm trying to do. So anyway,"
},
{
"end_time": 1915.913,
"index": 69,
"start_time": 1893.097,
"text": " That storm Dave asked if he could come stay with, you know, because he wanted to get rained on in her place because there was a hole. I forgot to tell you about the house, the one we live in. Dave says he owns it. He said, you'll see the landlord show up, but he's got to deal with me. And he showed me the documents. He's buying it. The landlord's going to get rid of the wife."
},
{
"end_time": 1942.756,
"index": 70,
"start_time": 1917.534,
"text": " And he had told a bunch of people that he's going to leave his wife and he's going to sell the place, the rental property. So he doesn't own it. So he doesn't know, but he told me that he owned it. He said, you might see the landlord come by and do some maintenance, but it's all a show because he's going to leave his wife soon. And I was too stupid to not figure out that that was just a garbage story."
},
{
"end_time": 1974.292,
"index": 71,
"start_time": 1944.445,
"text": " Then you don't own it. You're just leasing it. I don't understand. Exactly. Okay. And you know, if Travis was here, they might be able to say, I don't remember the exact story. He was basically, the landlord was selling it out behind the Weisbach, basically. Oh, okay. So he was going to buy it up. He had plans of like a lease with an option to buy. Lease with an option, something like that. So, and I remember it was kind of weird when he stayed with me that night up in Lighthouse Point."
},
{
"end_time": 1999.206,
"index": 72,
"start_time": 1975.538,
"text": " but you know, it was just because I think he knows that I got into his bank statement. Okay. But he's not going to approach me on it. And I was wondering if he's going to say something to me. I have no problem talking about it. Right. Cause I would have said, Oh yeah, dude, I'm sorry. I opened it up. I didn't, you know, I don't look at anything. I just ripped it. You know, that was going to be my answer. Right. So,"
},
{
"end_time": 2013.677,
"index": 73,
"start_time": 2000.06,
"text": " And I mentioned Kevin. Kevin taught me everything about the mortgage business. When he got hired full time, he sat next to Travis and Avelina. Now, as I mentioned earlier, Dave introduced Travis and Avelina."
},
{
"end_time": 2043.916,
"index": 74,
"start_time": 2014.241,
"text": " They used to have another girl, I think her name was Rachel, that the four of them would hang out. Unfortunately, she committed suicide. And this is a true story, because there's a plaque dedicated to her down at the beach. Okay. And so those three of them would go to the bar on her birthday and, and, and talk. And I wasn't invited. I remember thinking, dang, man, you guys can leave me at home. But Dave said, we're going to talk about Rachel. And so"
},
{
"end_time": 2060.35,
"index": 75,
"start_time": 2044.906,
"text": " Really what they were talking about was, Hey, when we're going to get our money back, but Dave used that as an excuse. But so. And this was the kind of the final nail in the coffin as far as what I would."
},
{
"end_time": 2089.701,
"index": 76,
"start_time": 2061.34,
"text": " Seeing with this guy. No, you got to remember this guy walks into everybody. Hey, Dave. People love this dude at lunch. If you go out, he's picking up the tab with Jennifer's money or with Tom's money. Exactly. Bill's money. Exactly. It should be a big shot. I listened. I was a big shot with the bank's money. Absolutely. I'd love to that. That sounds like a lot of fun. That'd be fun to have be large and in charge. So"
},
{
"end_time": 2120.606,
"index": 77,
"start_time": 2091.135,
"text": " He said, um, I remember I got a first mortgage, got a call in. It's a first. Now what I'll do mad is I'll do the whole application and then I'll be like, who wants to get a nice commission? So I'm going to give it to Kevin. My buddy, Kevin, good now taught me everything about the mortgage business. Kevin sits right next to Travis and Kevin's like, dude, I got, I can't, I got two, I'm closing two deals at once. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 2149.36,
"index": 78,
"start_time": 2121.067,
"text": " Travis when a first it's a close you just got it, you know, it's like oh good That night Dave says to me Travis really doesn't like you dude and be careful. Don't be flirting with Avelina. He's really jealous And I'm many things Matt I don't flirt with other group dudes group wives girlfriends. That's not my thing. Right? I went to a really small high school and"
},
{
"end_time": 2177.483,
"index": 79,
"start_time": 2150.247,
"text": " And I was a hopeless romantic and I'd think this girl's cute. And then I heard Johnny talking about how he made out with her last week. And I was just like, instantly. So they didn't quit making girls. There's plenty of them out there. Right. And Evelyn wasn't my type. I never flirted with her. That's just, and Dave's like, Oh yeah. Would Dave"
},
{
"end_time": 2202.585,
"index": 80,
"start_time": 2177.79,
"text": " doesn't want me talking to certain people in the office. Right. There's people that have invested with them, buying antiques for them. Yeah, that's what I would later figure out. And then he was like, I don't know what you did to piss off Tommy, but boy, I was like, dude, he can't take a joke. I made it, but that's another guy needs to keep me away from. So there was some of the things there, but"
},
{
"end_time": 2227.398,
"index": 81,
"start_time": 2202.892,
"text": " You know, in the back of your mind, it doesn't make sense. Right. And your conscience is telling you that, you know, that's garbage. So I'm going to join my buddy Billy and Kurt. We're going to go to the Jersey Shore for Labor Day. All right. And like I said, I've kind of spent time away. They haven't made me full time, even though I'm either first or second"
},
{
"end_time": 2255.469,
"index": 82,
"start_time": 2228.37,
"text": " in second mortgages or home equity lines of credit. I'm really doing well at the company there, but for whatever reason, I've not been offered a full-time position. So I'm just going to take Friday off and I'll be gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. And I get up to Jersey Shore and I remember I talked to Dave on the phone and I said, yeah, we're going to Atlantic cities. Like, let me send you some money."
},
{
"end_time": 2286.271,
"index": 83,
"start_time": 2257.193,
"text": " I'm like, Hey, if you're going to offer some money and I like to gamble, it's like, yeah, send me 500 bucks and said, let me know if you need more. Don't tell Carol. Right. And I was like, okay, all right, dude. I was like, did you, did you make a big story? He's like, yeah, I, I get the superfected, the, you know, he made up some story though. Hey, he sent me 500 bucks. And I were thinking, man, I should ask him for another 500 after, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 2308.183,
"index": 84,
"start_time": 2286.886,
"text": " I had a great weekend in Atlantic City with the Wildwood. I met a really cute girl from West Jester. I lost her in the crowd as the bars closed. They take the drinks out of your hand at 2 a.m. I couldn't find her."
},
{
"end_time": 2337.773,
"index": 85,
"start_time": 2308.541,
"text": " So I remember we went and saw, uh, the hangover that weekend, just a really great weekend with my college buddies. And I'm thinking that was great. So I fly back home and I remember I was driving down from my parents' house and I can either go right to work or I can go to the house first. And I thought I'll just go to the house first, maybe change the shirt, you know, and I get there."
},
{
"end_time": 2359.36,
"index": 86,
"start_time": 2338.524,
"text": " You just have that feeling when you open the door, something's different. Oh, Davis packed up all his stuff and left. And there were bedding slips all over the floor. Because in those days, just so you know, nowadays, you don't need to keep your gambling slips, your bet stubs."
},
{
"end_time": 2388.439,
"index": 87,
"start_time": 2359.735,
"text": " They track everything through player cards or online, you know, cause if you cash over the IRS limit, you might have to pay taxes on it. Right. So Dave had serious IRS troubles. I would later find, I'd find these notes from the IRS. So he was, I mean, he had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bedding slips and he's gone. And on my bed was a note."
},
{
"end_time": 2406.954,
"index": 88,
"start_time": 2389.326,
"text": " And on the kitchen counter, there was a note for Travis and Avelina. And I thought, great. What's going on YouTube? Our DAP Dan here, Federal Prison Time Consulting. Hope you guys are all having a great day. If you're seeing and hearing this right now, that means you're watching Matt Cox on Inside True Crime."
},
{
"end_time": 2426.92,
"index": 89,
"start_time": 2407.363,
"text": " At the end"
},
{
"end_time": 2450.265,
"index": 90,
"start_time": 2427.159,
"text": " Prepping you properly for the pre-sentence interview, which is going to determine a lot of what type of sentence you receive. You've already been sentenced. We can also focus on the residential drug abuse program, how you can knock off one year off of your sentence. Also, we have the First Step Act, where you can earn FSA credits while serving your sentence. For every 30 days that you program through the FSA, you can actually knock an additional 15 days off per month."
},
{
"end_time": 2479.104,
"index": 91,
"start_time": 2450.265,
"text": " Before I went on that vacation, Dave kind of said it all out there for me. He said, listen, as you know, my brother has an antique and stamp business. He said the government, you know, people are doing more and more email."
},
{
"end_time": 2508.029,
"index": 92,
"start_time": 2479.633,
"text": " So their stamp business is really going down. So they sell all these odd lot stamps at a discount. What do you mean their stamp? When you say stamp business, I thought you meant like antique stamps or specialty. He's saying that the government has some, you know, they print so many stamps, but they can't sell them all. Okay. And then some of them, you know, they, they sell them in lots and you'd get seven off a roll here and"
},
{
"end_time": 2527.671,
"index": 93,
"start_time": 2508.609,
"text": " And through the years, they just pile up. So you can buy stamps at a massive at a discount, massive bulk, but you've got to take two cents stamps and three cents. You got to take whatever they give you, but you're going to get it at a massive discount. And he had said that he and his brother, they've done this before."
},
{
"end_time": 2554.428,
"index": 94,
"start_time": 2528.285,
"text": " And it takes a little while to get your money back, but companies will buy those stamps from you because you're going to sell it at a discount to them. Right. And he said, you know, my brother's in with, you know, he's been buying so many stamps from the government. He's got inroads there. He said, you know, you've got some friends that have some money. That's a great way to make 30% on your money. He said, and he was, you know, my brother and I take a small fee and obviously we've got to make it"
},
{
"end_time": 2582.91,
"index": 95,
"start_time": 2554.991,
"text": " good for the corporations or are they just going to buy it from the government? So we got to offer them a discount, but there's a nice spread there for a nice profit. And he pitched me that before I went on vacation and I was like, well, show me the deal, show me how it's done. And then if you show me the, you know, I got to see some things before I'm going to go talk to one of my ball player buddies or somebody that I know I'm not just going to take your word for it."
},
{
"end_time": 2607.039,
"index": 96,
"start_time": 2583.643,
"text": " and I think he was probably heartbroken that you didn't, that I didn't bite on that hand over 20 grand. Yeah. I think he was looking like, I think he was looking for like a hundred grand because in the little note he left me said, I was hoping you'd end up being my partner partner doesn't sound like that. That's it. Yeah. And uh,"
},
{
"end_time": 2614.224,
"index": 97,
"start_time": 2607.739,
"text": " He said, you know, so you said you so at that point you were like, this is just before you went on vacation and you were like."
},
{
"end_time": 2642.944,
"index": 98,
"start_time": 2614.753,
"text": " Yeah, it sounds great sounds like an interesting idea and you know the way and the way he sold it is Listen, the government has made so many stamps and so many people use email now They're never gonna be able to sell all these stamps and they're still printing them, you know You know get the forever stamps and then you got seven cents stamps 15% There's such a backlog. They've got warehouses full of stamps and it's we could we have companies that will buy them and"
},
{
"end_time": 2664.514,
"index": 99,
"start_time": 2643.285,
"text": " But you know, they might have to piece them together. But if we can buy them for 40, 50, 60 cents in the dollar, then go to the, you know, IBM or somebody that still sends out mail, you know, and packages it up for them. Hey, yeah, they'll, they can buy it at a discount. So it makes sense. Sounds like bullshit to me, but I hear you. I hear you."
},
{
"end_time": 2692.875,
"index": 100,
"start_time": 2664.684,
"text": " Again, when he told me that I'm not thinking anything, but he's wants me to talk to people that I'm just not going to go. And you remember I'm a ruin your credibility. I'm a former stockbroker. I never asked Paul one time to manage his money. Right. And that's what I do. Right. And he, when I say manages money, I would talk about putting his money in a Schwab where he could see it online and he would just pay me quarterly. Cause that's what I did at a company."
},
{
"end_time": 2715.503,
"index": 101,
"start_time": 2693.387,
"text": " Right. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 2743.097,
"index": 102,
"start_time": 2716.374,
"text": " I owe him because I'm living in his house and he's paying the rent. I don't have to pay rent. Right. Was it always that you were always kind of, he was all, you're always being set up for. Yeah. And he wrote in this note to me that I was hoping you'd be my partner and I tried to get you. So you opened the letter. So you got back, you got the letter, you opened the letter and I'm like, wow, this dude's gone. You know, I was just kind of shocked and understand."
},
{
"end_time": 2772.5,
"index": 103,
"start_time": 2743.541,
"text": " He'd lived there for six years. This wasn't just some short con and all of a sudden he's gone. He had made friendships with people at work and people around the neighborhood that he had to pick up and leave on. And I know that he didn't want to leave. And he probably, you know, he didn't want to con these people out of money, but his desire for gambling money, I guess,"
},
{
"end_time": 2802.654,
"index": 104,
"start_time": 2773.029,
"text": " with so much stronger, you know, pulled off a con here and there. And I think he just probably worked himself in a big hole. Then he came up with these other business ideas. Now you've got people that had given him money. Well, anyways, we'll get that. I drive to work and I've got to tell Travis and Adelina cause they left, Dave left me a note. What did the letter say to you? What did your letter say? It's basically said, I'm sorry, but I got to take off."
},
{
"end_time": 2831.015,
"index": 105,
"start_time": 2803.217,
"text": " I was hoping you'd be my partner, but I don't own the house. That was BS. Okay. Uh, I didn't have a fiance that died. Uh, I got in the same problems in Ohio and I just can't keep myself out of trouble. You're a good dude. Uh, basically I'm sorry about Matt's money."
},
{
"end_time": 2863.234,
"index": 106,
"start_time": 2833.473,
"text": " You know, basically my bad, my bad. Oh shit. And I'm like, and it was just, you know, I'm just, and we're currently, we're currently being evicted on. You might want to find some place. He's like, I'm sorry to do this to you, but I didn't pay September rent. So I'm like, Oh great. Just moving sucks in and of itself. But so that was the least my concerns and that, but I still don't know."
},
{
"end_time": 2890.401,
"index": 107,
"start_time": 2863.831,
"text": " How much that he said, but they left the note for Travis and Aveline and I gave it to them and I heard screaming around the corner. Now I'm at work. I'm sitting at my desk. Travis is down there. Kevin's down there and they're screaming, they're yelling and there, but there's other people yelling. Oh, okay. So now it's spreading and it's spreading. Right. And then the management calls me into an office and I pull out my letter."
},
{
"end_time": 2920.794,
"index": 108,
"start_time": 2892.159,
"text": " And I was like, this is what he left me. And I'm, I gave that letter up. I think I made a copy of it and sent it to Matt cause I got to call my college roommate who by the way tells me, Oh, I did send that other 15 grand to him. That's 45, $45,000 I've given Dave. And what kills me is to where's that $45,000. Right. Did you gamble that all? Yeah. I was sitting next to you the whole time. It sure didn't look like it. So,"
},
{
"end_time": 2940.333,
"index": 109,
"start_time": 2921.118,
"text": " Well, I was going to say the other thing is, you know, you're like, oh, he didn't want to up and leave, but you're also thinking that he has the same emotional attachments to other people that you do. Yes. Yes. You know, like there's, you know, you don't know that he may have been like, get to start over. On the road, baby. It may have been a wall."
},
{
"end_time": 2970.179,
"index": 110,
"start_time": 2940.862,
"text": " I'm thinking that he probably had 20 grand on him when he left, or 30, because he wanted to send me another 500 bucks. If he's hurting for cash, he's not going to... Why are you sending me money? Right. You know? Because Lord knows he could... I wasn't going in on that stamp deal and I made that... He made a pretty hard pitch at me and I was like, just show me how it's done so I can go to other people. Show me you're buying it, show me your push. I've got to see it. I'm not going to take anything"
},
{
"end_time": 3000.299,
"index": 111,
"start_time": 2970.811,
"text": " I didn't do any cold calling when I was a stockbroker. You know why? Because I hang up on cold callers. Right. They annoy me. So you can go, I'm Dave Wilhauer, JT Marlin. You got to get a boom. I do. I got to have a relationship with you. I truly believe people do business with who they like. That's why Dave's Rail was able to get abscond all that money because people liked him. You know, it's so so, you know, it's so funny is"
},
{
"end_time": 3026.374,
"index": 112,
"start_time": 3000.879,
"text": " that when I was in Tampa and on the run and I was flipping properties and people saw, you know, like I'm always paying for everything. I'm always, you know, how many people would come to me and say, Hey, listen, I could, you know, if I gave you 20 grand, like, like, could I, you know, what, what could I get back? And I would be like, nah, you know, and this is the thing, like, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 3041.101,
"index": 113,
"start_time": 3026.817,
"text": " It was like, one, I'm not going to rip you off, but two, I know that everything I'm doing is illegal and I don't want to have wires from you coming to me. And then the other thing was it was like, okay, it's not worth it for you to lend me money. For one thing, I'm borrowing money."
},
{
"end_time": 3070.879,
"index": 114,
"start_time": 3041.442,
"text": " Very inexpensively from the bank. Right. I have plenty of money. Like you're 20 grand. If I've got 300,000 in the bank and I've got your 20 grand means nothing really in the grand scheme of things. I'm borrowing money at six percent, five percent. Yeah. I don't like what are you going to get? You're just one more phone call headache that I got to worry about. Right. Like you're 20 grand. I can just pull 20 grand out of my own bank account and it cost me nothing. You're saying if I give you 20, would you give me back 2200 or 20,000 and give it plus 2000? Like no. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 3096.715,
"index": 115,
"start_time": 3071.459,
"text": " I tell you what, you're a better man than me. But people are constantly offering me money. Yeah. And it's like, it's crazy. It's like, this is, this is not, and I think that's the same thing. Your buddy realized I'm paying for everything. I look like I'm doing well. Everybody likes me. Everybody trusts me. They're going to offer me money. If I come to them and ask them for money, they're going to give me the money. Oh yeah. And you know, he created the fear of loss, you know, like"
},
{
"end_time": 3127.193,
"index": 116,
"start_time": 3098.08,
"text": " And if you don't have it, don't matter, but I got to get it by my Monday, you know, and right, you know, you've always had cash on them. You know, I had a buddy in prison who said, remember he said people are more concerned about losing out on a good deal than they are at, at protecting their, their, their money. Yeah. They, they, they don't, what they don't want. They don't want to have a hundred thousand dollars."
},
{
"end_time": 3148.933,
"index": 117,
"start_time": 3127.637,
"text": " and find out that they could have lent it to you and made 150, then to keep their 100,000, even though it's a risk. They're more willing to risk it than protect it. And he was like, and that was the big thing was he played up on that. I've got this guy invested, this guy invested, this guy invested. I've got one more spot"
},
{
"end_time": 3174.616,
"index": 118,
"start_time": 3149.548,
"text": " But I'm talking to somebody else. Yeah, and they will I'll do it It's like they're not asking me any questions. They don't have any proof. They don't have anything They just don't want somebody else to get their investment when we did my family's business. We did club sales Public or quasi private golf country clubs would turn private and It was deposit membership. So when you resign your membership you get all your money back and"
},
{
"end_time": 3203.063,
"index": 119,
"start_time": 3174.923,
"text": " It's a liability, not a credit for the club. My dad came up with it. It was a great program. Some country clubs, you join, pay 100 grand, you leave, you get 20 grand, if that, if you're lucky. So it was a deposit membership, but they would have price increases and people would be waiting there and be like, hey, July 1st, the price goes from 25,000 to 35,000. And most of these people are really wealthy and they're like, I don't know. Hey, that's fine."
},
{
"end_time": 3233.217,
"index": 120,
"start_time": 3203.712,
"text": " But if you want to play golf at the club, it's 30, it will be 35,000. It's 25 right now. Right. So fear of loss is big thing. And I love what you said in your other video. You make that sales pitch and you shut up. All right. My dad told me the same thing. Your dad said, yeah, next spot speaks losers. Yeah. You'll talk yourself out of a deal. Oh, and then we had a problem with guys that would keep talking like, dude, you've already strolled them on it. Shut up. So anyway,"
},
{
"end_time": 3256.596,
"index": 121,
"start_time": 3234.36,
"text": " It's screaming at the office, screaming at the office and, and people kept coming up to Dave's rail really leave. And I'm just sitting at my deck. I'm like trying to do the second mortgage. Like, yeah, give me 10 minutes. I'll know. I'll tell you all about it. And then the vice president comes over and Dave, you know, me from Adam, can I have a word with you?"
},
{
"end_time": 3279.445,
"index": 122,
"start_time": 3257.346,
"text": " Do you know what happened to my $100,000? Did it keep getting worse and worse? How Dave sold me to Matt was he was doing what was called Six Sigma. It was some type of club. I'd never heard of it, but I would see him sit down with the vice presidents of the bank."
},
{
"end_time": 3306.647,
"index": 123,
"start_time": 3280.06,
"text": " Now, I shouldn't say the bank, the mortgage company. But this was the major call center for, you know, a Dutch based company that owns LaSalle Bank and some of the other banks in the United States. So it's a pretty big deal. It's like the fourth, the fifth largest bank in the world. And he's I would see Dave have meetings with these vice presidents. So I knew, you know, he was kind of a big wig, maybe not at work, but reputation wise. So it didn't shock me."
},
{
"end_time": 3332.056,
"index": 124,
"start_time": 3306.988,
"text": " that he would talk to maybe a vice president and say, Hey, let's sell some of these foreclosures. Right. Greed is what runs society. Even if it wasn't on the up and up, that didn't bother me about that deal with my friend, Matt. Right. You know what I'm saying? What I really didn't, you know, I'm thinking, wow, they can sell for it's their properties. And if the guy's the head of the real estate division or has control of that, why can't they sell some?"
},
{
"end_time": 3362.432,
"index": 125,
"start_time": 3332.824,
"text": " Obviously it was a scam, but it was on ABN Amarillo letterhead, and my friend Matt was able to get his money back, but not the people in the office. Travis and Avelina lost $35,000 to Dave. Now what Dave would do, and if you go on davestrails.com, there's what's called a, he would write a cognovic note. I've never heard the term cognovic."
},
{
"end_time": 3386.357,
"index": 126,
"start_time": 3363.029,
"text": " Okay. But I think psychologically nobody else had, instead of saying, I owe Matt Cox 35,000, but a Cognovic note. It kind of made it more official. You know what I'm saying? It's Latin. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to fuck you out of your money. I mean. Yeah. Hold on to your wallet. And so"
},
{
"end_time": 3405.879,
"index": 127,
"start_time": 3387.005,
"text": " and there is a guy that lost five another guy lost two and there are some people were like i had a girl tell me i loaned him two thousand dollars last month said he pitched me on some stamp deal my husband i said no i'm not even going to say anything because there were people that"
},
{
"end_time": 3428.422,
"index": 128,
"start_time": 3407.261,
"text": " that that really lost a lot of money. So in the note that he leaves to Travis and Avelina in the end, like what do you think he got the office in general over 300 close to $400,000? Well, just people in that office. Okay. And in the note he leaves to Avelina, he's like, you have"
},
{
"end_time": 3457.927,
"index": 129,
"start_time": 3429.241,
"text": " The ring that I gave to my fake ass fiance. Cut the shit, bro. And you know what bothers me is he's writing this. He's thinking that people are going to miss him. They want their money. Right. But he's still in his mind. He's sentimental. He's writing a goodbye note and you can read it on davesrail.com. It's called letters section. And he's like, I'm going to New York. He said I'd commit suicide, but in my health"
},
{
"end_time": 3485.452,
"index": 130,
"start_time": 3458.49,
"text": " Life insurance policy, it's not covered. Like he feels so bad about what he's done. So you guys could get your money back, but it doesn't do it anyway. Let's try. I'm willing to risk it. Yeah. Let's let's make it look fishy. Yeah. Let's make it look fishy. We'll just throw a gun and then put someone else's prints on it. Yeah. Well, yeah, but we'll make it look like a hit and run. Yeah. Go out in the road. Yeah, sure. We could, I'll run you over with the car. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 3514.718,
"index": 131,
"start_time": 3486.118,
"text": " Let's get that money. Yeah. Let's do the right thing. Do the right thing. Okay. Careless driving just 50 miles right over the embankment. Right. It'll be a hit and run. It's accidental death. Your insurance problem will be whole and we'll thank you for that. Yes. Yes. So just, just people helping people. It's just the right thing to do. Absolutely. Do the right thing, Dave off yourself. So in his note, he kind of lists in there, you know,"
},
{
"end_time": 3540.64,
"index": 132,
"start_time": 3515.776,
"text": " Sorry I did this to you because, but your heart picked the right friends. Don't let this incident think that, you know, if these people had to be going, I was friends with this guy for five years, the lady puts a picture of him in there saying, this man was in my house last Thanksgiving. So Avelina's mother makes a whole website, Dave's rail, the con man, and you"
},
{
"end_time": 3569.292,
"index": 133,
"start_time": 3541.254,
"text": " And I remember my friend Matt was, did you tell her you're coming on here? I'm sorry. I told Kevin, I don't know Avelina phone number, but I told my friend Kevin, we got to put the website in the description. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And, and so they put the website out cause they're pissed. Yeah. They want the sucker caught because they went to the police and the police said, Oh, it's civil. Yeah."
},
{
"end_time": 3599.548,
"index": 134,
"start_time": 3569.923,
"text": " And that really bothers me. It bothers me because I've heard that many times because it's it's fraud. It's not civil. And think about this, Matt. I would call Ken Srail, Dave's brother, just to get some background. And he would tell me that, yeah, it was an insurance company. I think it was State Farm. I'm not positive. He did the same thing seven or eight years earlier. That's why he had to leave Cleveland and his mom and dad paid his debts to make people whole."
},
{
"end_time": 3617.892,
"index": 135,
"start_time": 3600.708,
"text": " and so he left with his tail between his legs and went to florida and start over and start over and he ends up doing the same thing and ken said you know what's funny is avalina would end up calling getting the number for kent's but dave happened to walk by"
},
{
"end_time": 3646.63,
"index": 136,
"start_time": 3618.695,
"text": " And it, and Ken said, yeah, tell Dave, I said, hi. And she, I guess she was embarrassed cause she was, cause she wanted to find out where her money was. So she's just going to call the brother cause Dave acts like Ken's in on it. And he said, yeah, tell Dave to call me. And so Ken said, yeah, I was wondering if he was up to his old tricks because I was getting weird emails to my website. But what Dave ended up doing was copying Ken on emails."
},
{
"end_time": 3660.657,
"index": 137,
"start_time": 3647.363,
"text": " But making up a Ken's, his own Ken's rail that he could, you know, anybody can start a new, right? Right. My brother's Ken's rail, uh, Ken's rail 11 at Yahoo.com and that comes to me. I set the web email up."
},
{
"end_time": 3690.93,
"index": 138,
"start_time": 3661.135,
"text": " And so that's what he was doing them. These people were pissed. So I don't understand. There was no brother. There was a brother. There was the brother didn't know anything about what Dave was doing. Okay. The brother. Yeah, I didn't. I assume the brother. He's pissed that his brother's done this all over again and hurt more people. And so I ended up talking to Ken, super nice guy. And I, you know, I'm like, I just live with this brother. I was like, your brother's a good guy. If he just would put his tent, he's like, my brother's a smart guy."
},
{
"end_time": 3716.578,
"index": 139,
"start_time": 3691.664,
"text": " He just can't help himself. He's just a scumbag. He just can't get over that. And you got to figure they didn't give the stamp deal is what I think he sold all the people in the office on. That didn't happen two years ago. That was recent. So he was actually doing good. But something happened along the way where he started getting in more debt."
},
{
"end_time": 3723.729,
"index": 140,
"start_time": 3717.363,
"text": " I don't understand what you're saying. What stamp deal? So there is no stamp deal. That's not a real thing. But the con was real."
},
{
"end_time": 3751.305,
"index": 141,
"start_time": 3724.36,
"text": " What I'm saying is he's been at that office for five years. So he just recently got himself into trouble. So you don't think it was set up for five years? That's why I think this guy's got some rich friends and maybe he can help me because we'll rip these people off so I can make the people a work hole. And it's important that I keep him in the dark about what's happening with all these other people. He's thinking he's going to gamble his way out of it. Because like I said that one day when he missed that pick six,"
},
{
"end_time": 3768.097,
"index": 142,
"start_time": 3751.493,
"text": " he just was devastated and i've seen him everybody loses photo finishes but he was devastated because he's i mean because i imagine he probably told him hey it's going to take three four months to unload all the money but after three more months they were like"
},
{
"end_time": 3793.507,
"index": 143,
"start_time": 3768.712,
"text": " Where's our money dude? We give you the money back in December last year. Well, it's hard to move antiques Yeah, you know or no or stamps, you know trying to get the companies. We got to get all the stamps We got to get them lotted together and store, you know, it's a but I think he ran out of excuses But here's another thing that bothers me about the whole civil and criminal these people were dealing with somebody and"
},
{
"end_time": 3809.735,
"index": 144,
"start_time": 3794.343,
"text": " at a bank, the fifth largest bank in the world. You would have thought they did a background check on them. Right. On their own employees. Well, are you saying he had been locked up before or he'd had? Well, it was written, I think it was in the paper about"
},
{
"end_time": 3839.872,
"index": 145,
"start_time": 3810.111,
"text": " his shenanigans in Ohio. Okay. So I don't know if he'd been arrested or not, but I'll call previous employers. Well, I mean, maybe, maybe they just did a criminal background check. Nothing came up. They're good. Okay. Keep going. Okay. That makes sense. But, you know, and it's not hard to fake a resume, you know? Yeah. So who knows? It's true. So let's face it, they're not paying you anything and it's a part time, like they let you work your way up. Right. Right. So Srail ends up going to Texas."
},
{
"end_time": 3866.63,
"index": 146,
"start_time": 3840.282,
"text": " In the following spring, Paul, my buddy, a baseball player, lives in San Antonio. And he calls me and says, Hey, does that guy, that guy Dave that you live with, does he bring a big bag of pens to the track with him and wear a bandana? I said, yeah. He's like, he's sitting three feet away from me. So Paul goes to talk to him. Dave says,"
},
{
"end_time": 3895.742,
"index": 147,
"start_time": 3867.022,
"text": " I'll be right back. Paul said he went to the bathroom and ran out of the racetrack. Paul's like, dude, I'm not going to turn him in. I just want to talk to him. Yeah, you know. So. That website ends up going up. And someone finds out Dave's real name. Apparently, he'd been using fake names. He was doing. Fake names once he took off. Yeah, I think his real name is Dave Shrill. Dave Shrill."
},
{
"end_time": 3906.288,
"index": 148,
"start_time": 3896.118,
"text": " But he was giving fake names and he was also signing up for like Big Pharma has all these tests. What am I looking for?"
},
{
"end_time": 3936.152,
"index": 149,
"start_time": 3907.176,
"text": " They're looking for volunteers on a blood, uh, uh, right to take Medicare study. You know what I'm saying? They pay you this much and exactly. And he's taking, he was doing, he's got, he's got five of them going all kinds of people. Yeah. What I went through is when we went to his room, we, we, he'd done them before and you know, and Travis and Avelina would later come to the house. Well, I, I, I kind of blown it."
},
{
"end_time": 3961.544,
"index": 150,
"start_time": 3937.329,
"text": " If you read the end of the letter he left Travis and Avelina after he BS'ed about the suicide. Poor, poor me. Poor, poor me. But I'm going to use my talents for good and trust your heart, Avelina. You didn't do bad picking friends in me and you found a great man in Travis. And at the very end there and he said, oh, and as far as David, I just don't have the words."
},
{
"end_time": 3987.005,
"index": 151,
"start_time": 3962.449,
"text": " And what he means is that guy David and his mom that he stole $300,000 from. That was their life savings. He couldn't leave him a letter. Which one was David? There was another guy in the office. Oh, okay. I didn't know about it either until I read the letter. $300,000 he stole from a guy and his mom. I went outside the office. He was sobbing in his car."
},
{
"end_time": 3997.193,
"index": 152,
"start_time": 3989.053,
"text": " Dave was. This guy David. He's got to go home and tell his mom that all our money is gone. Wow."
},
{
"end_time": 4024.855,
"index": 153,
"start_time": 3998.677,
"text": " No, we can't arrest a guy for screwing, because here's my thing. If I went into the bank and I lied to the bank and they gave me money and I had never paid them back, that's fraud. Right. So because you're not a licensed organization, because he borrowed money from somebody, they're saying, oh, that's civil. Puts it on this note saying, I get the money from you, writes a note saying, I'm a con man."
},
{
"end_time": 4054.65,
"index": 154,
"start_time": 4026.032,
"text": " What's the difference between me borrowing $300,000 from Make of America and then writing them a note saying, Hey, my bad. I just took your money. Go fuck yourself. It's the same thing. I still have a promissory note. So if we screw banks, you go to prison, but if we screw the American people, go fuck yourself. Go find a lawyer. Now lucky for my buddy, Matt, I found a great attorney down in Miami that was a friend of the family and he got Matt all his money back. How?"
},
{
"end_time": 4080.674,
"index": 155,
"start_time": 4055.469,
"text": " We sued AB and AMRO because it was on their letterhead. It was their employees. He presented it. He sent the appraisals. He sent the descriptions. But what about the other guy? 300,000. Dave, he's fucked. Nothing. They didn't get any money back. You told me you got his money. I was thinking about Dave. Yeah, I feel it's terrible. That's why I'm sitting here. Because there's a big injustice. The people that on your venture,"
},
{
"end_time": 4098.66,
"index": 156,
"start_time": 4081.015,
"text": " I don't think, when it's all said and done, the banks, they have insurance policies against fraud. Right. Or at least they've built it into their business model. Absolutely. Like they're a certain percentage of interest rates and everything else goes just towards fraud. You said there was one guy that was really mad at you and"
},
{
"end_time": 4123.507,
"index": 157,
"start_time": 4098.814,
"text": " I had so I actually have like four victims and that but the total I owe all victims is about 30 grand and I didn't take the money like you've got a doctor that paid like eleven or twelve thousand dollars to an attorney attorney they all pay for attorneys by the way the same thing CPA paid for an attorney same thing as a lawyer that lent money he was a hard money hard money lender he also"
},
{
"end_time": 4144.667,
"index": 158,
"start_time": 4124.582,
"text": " The most was the doctor that lost money. And yeah, he was so furious that he couldn't be, he was like, oh, that he couldn't even come to, because they wanted him to get up and say, because he'd lost the most money, he'd either have to hire an attorney like this."
},
{
"end_time": 4162.346,
"index": 159,
"start_time": 4145.111,
"text": " Did he lose his life saving? No, no, he lost. That's my point. Yeah. And he's that mad. I know, but you know, some guys are so. Of course, they don't like to get over on. Right. But it's just how do we allow this to happen? Even if they don't lock Strahl up and say,"
},
{
"end_time": 4192.739,
"index": 160,
"start_time": 4163.046,
"text": " We're going to garnish your wages to pay these people off. Right. At least something coming in. So they get some money back. Yeah. $500 a month. They're getting something, but nothing. And the thing is, if they grabbed him, like how hard of a case is that to even make? Once you grab him, you say, here it is. We're charging you with this. You get on probation. You're going to start making payments. That's it. That's not a hard process for the police. So he goes to Texas. The guy reads davesrail.com and apparently Dave had a knife on him."
},
{
"end_time": 4222.773,
"index": 161,
"start_time": 4193.609,
"text": " And the guy confronted Dave. Now, Dave's not a fighter, but he would pull the knife out, like, get away from me. That's the only reason he did 30 days in jails because he pulled out a knife. I called the cops. Yeah. Dave was gone, found a new company. The guy talked to a detective. The detective found the website, davesrail.com. They arrested Srail right before he was going to get on an airplane going to do what he was working for some company that they've used to fly off site in Texas."
},
{
"end_time": 4252.841,
"index": 162,
"start_time": 4223.336,
"text": " But he only did like 30 or 60 days in jail. That's it. He goes to Evansville, Indiana. He screws a lady out of a couple thousand dollars. He's repeated this. So in my mind, if we could say this guy's a scam artist, he's a perfect con man cons short for confidence. You gain confidence in him. He is a con man. Right. And if you say he did it in Ohio, he did it in Florida. He did it in Texas."
},
{
"end_time": 4281.032,
"index": 163,
"start_time": 4253.387,
"text": " He did it in Indiana. I mean, you've got a pattern from the 90s up to 2015. He's just screwing people. It just hasn't stopped. What's funny to me is that he's getting these jobs at these financial institutions or these institutions where you have access to people's... That's my point. Right. So you would think they would do a little extra... He's got social security number."
},
{
"end_time": 4308.814,
"index": 164,
"start_time": 4281.442,
"text": " You know, yeah, you check. Does he have a criminal record? But you got to be really careful. You got people's social security numbers. You got to. Everything's there. Listen, when you're talking to somebody on the phone and you're getting their information, especially back then, back then, they're giving it all to you right on the phone. Matt, I was talking about second mortgage with people and I'm like, you're going to have to give me your social so I can do your credit. People don't like giving social security to strangers over and I don't blame them. But they give it to you. They give it to you. Well, I was going to say,"
},
{
"end_time": 4334.241,
"index": 165,
"start_time": 4309.206,
"text": " the the thing is is is that like I would get on the phone with somebody and ask them all kinds of like someone say start telling you stuff right you get them in the pub they're all in like you know at once they get date of birth social security number where were you what state and county were you what your mother's maiden name you're asking them questions like there's no reason for me to ask you some of these questions I was wondering how you did that how do you get on a maiden name yeah let's have a password just in case uh"
},
{
"end_time": 4363.234,
"index": 166,
"start_time": 4334.582,
"text": " Absolutely. What's your mom's maiden name? Yeah. Okay. Just for security reasons, just for security password. What's your mom's maiden name? Oh, okay. Oh, it's that's that's okay. Thank you. It's like, oh, are you serious? Like, I would like you could have made something up. Give me your dog's name, you know, anything. But they give that and then listen, I would keep I never had anybody who would stop it halfway through. Like, as soon as they give me their social security number, you kicked in the door. Now you're in the house, right? They're giving you everything. So the ironic thing"
},
{
"end_time": 4389.497,
"index": 167,
"start_time": 4363.746,
"text": " is about three years later, I started getting notices from the IRS that I owed back taxes. And I thought, that's strange. Maybe I hit a $2,000 ticket to the racetrack that I didn't claim on. Oh, no. Someone said I made $270,000 a year, which got 70 grand in taxes. He used your social security? Someone used my social security. Who could that be?"
},
{
"end_time": 4418.968,
"index": 168,
"start_time": 4389.804,
"text": " I thought maybe it was Dave's rail. Okay. Was it? It wasn't, but there were, they let go of me at the bank because they felt like I was a distraction at work. Even though I was doing a great job and I wasn't full time, I was still a temp. They never brought me over and people were coming up to me. I don't blame them. And to be honest with you, I didn't want to live that far south. You know, it'd be like,"
},
{
"end_time": 4439.718,
"index": 169,
"start_time": 4419.445,
"text": " You going down to Sarasota, it's just too far of a drive, you know, it was too far. And my, my friends were all in West Palm Beach and Hollywood. That's a good hour and 15 minute drive. So, but I was still pissed that they, they, they, they gave me my walking papers because I was the top, you know, I was writing a lot of second mortgages, but"
},
{
"end_time": 4457.005,
"index": 170,
"start_time": 4440.128,
"text": " Yeah, people would come up to me, have you heard anything from Dave? I'm like, listen, you guys know him more than I do. I'm new here. Yeah, you lend him money. I didn't know him well enough to lend him any money. But, you know, like I said earlier, I'm thinking maybe he was just hoping that I wouldn't."
},
{
"end_time": 4481.578,
"index": 171,
"start_time": 4457.398,
"text": " So, according to the website, he's fishing up in Alaska right now. As a commercial fisherman. Yeah, something like that."
},
{
"end_time": 4499.053,
"index": 172,
"start_time": 4481.988,
"text": " Like Alaska, sea, what are the crabbers? Deadliest catch. Deadliest catch. Yeah. And let me tell you something. I grew up on boats. I love fishing, but A, it's way too cold. Yeah. It's bitter cold up there. And that is a rough job because"
},
{
"end_time": 4521.067,
"index": 173,
"start_time": 4500.452,
"text": " They treat you like shit if you're brand new going out on those boats. I was gonna say, you borrow money from those guys. You're done. You get keel-hauled if you do that. Tell me again about those antiques. But if you've noticed, if you know anything about Deadliest Catch, a lot of them get picked up for drugs and fraud theft, but they can go there to make quick money."
},
{
"end_time": 4546.34,
"index": 174,
"start_time": 4521.869,
"text": " I was hoping. Maybe that's what he's doing. Maybe Dave's stockpiling money to pay everybody back. I don't think you're giving him credit. Yeah, I was hoping. You know what? I hope the guy hits for a million dollars and sends that guy David. I bet you if he hit for fucking 10 million, he ain't paying those people shit. I agree. They're never seen a dime. I was telling Colby, it's sad because he's such a fun guy to hang out with."
},
{
"end_time": 4572.978,
"index": 175,
"start_time": 4546.783,
"text": " There's just some people they have that magnetic personality. I know a guy named me laugh. I know a guy named Red Bull loved hanging out with them. I wouldn't lend him a dime. I wouldn't. I never bought him anything that I didn't expect to absolutely not get it back. Yeah. It's like some guys I went to college with. They're great to hang out with, but you wouldn't let your sister date him. Right. That's exactly. Um, yeah, I, I,"
},
{
"end_time": 4603.217,
"index": 176,
"start_time": 4573.865,
"text": " That's insane. I knew, so I'm going to, I think, did I, have I ever told you about Jim Keegan? All right. So I'm going to tell you a story right now. Cause this reminded me of Jim Keegan. Jim Keegan's a guy that I met in federal prison. Jim Keegan was in federal prison for, um, for like he had embezzled"
},
{
"end_time": 4612.654,
"index": 177,
"start_time": 4603.558,
"text": " Some client money, right? So it was like wire fraud. Nobody else small. He got a minor sentence, maybe three years, maybe four years."
},
{
"end_time": 4642.705,
"index": 178,
"start_time": 4613.336,
"text": " And so he'd embezzled some money and admittedly, he said he did do it. He was drinking and gambling, whatever the reason was. And he had already paid the money back, but the prosecutors, they hated him because he was a lawyer. He was a lawyer and he fought state criminal cases and he'd won at trial so many times that when they got him, they went to the U.S. attorney and when they actually found this out about the misappropriative funds,"
},
{
"end_time": 4668.575,
"index": 179,
"start_time": 4643.422,
"text": " in his law office, they just hammered him. They just wouldn't take a deal. I'm trying to give him 15 years because he'd beat the state so many times. He used to represent drug dealers and gang members and he'd gotten them off on murder charges. And so they just, they wanted him gone. So anything, even commingling funds, anything they can get, they're going to get him. Anything. And so he ends up in federal prison and he was like, yeah, I'm going to get out and I'm going to, I'm going to go to work for my brother. His brother was a lawyer. He's like, I'm going to go to work for my brother."
},
{
"end_time": 4686.971,
"index": 180,
"start_time": 4668.575,
"text": " And i was like are you doing any legal work here? He's like no i don't do any legal work here i don't i don't want to do any legal work at all for anybody and he'd come from another prison by the way so another he'd be a low to low transfer because he said i want to be in florida and this and that and"
},
{
"end_time": 4714.411,
"index": 181,
"start_time": 4687.671,
"text": " People were constantly like you were a lawyer on the street. He was like, yeah, but I did criminal law state I haven't done I don't do federal and they would come to him and can you look at my case? Can you look at my case you got? Well, I'll look at it. I'll look at but I'm not gonna I can't do it Inmates have their paperwork on them. They're there most part. No, no for the most part They don't for the most part they get their sentence. They just don't do anything All right, but some guys get think they they can get over they can get something right at some time knocked off They gave me an enhancement for a gun. I didn't have I"
},
{
"end_time": 4742.21,
"index": 182,
"start_time": 4714.411,
"text": " They gave me 10 years, so it's worth fighting. If you can get the enhancement off, you got 15 years. 10 knocks off. You've already done two. You got five years. You know, you got a five year sentence plus gain time. Like you could be going to Halfway House if you win that enhancement. Right. And so Keegan was like, OK, cool, cool, cool. Yeah, I'll take a look at your stuff. And he'd look at it and he'd go, look, I mean, I looked at it. I talked to my brother about it. He came to see me and he did have a brother who owned a law firm in Orlando."
},
{
"end_time": 4756.51,
"index": 183,
"start_time": 4742.79,
"text": " And he said, I talked to my brother about it, like you probably have a good case. My brother doesn't do, we both do state. He does more civil than I did. So yeah, and so people would, and he would tell people like, look, you know, I do, you can have your family look me up and they would look him up."
},
{
"end_time": 4777.415,
"index": 184,
"start_time": 4756.954,
"text": " And sure enough, this dude was in the paper all the fucking time. Jim Keegan just won this murder trial, this murder trial. Like you could literally, there were probably eight different articles about him winning murder, I'm going for murder, winning the cases. Now, by the way, winning a murder case"
},
{
"end_time": 4805.538,
"index": 185,
"start_time": 4778.2,
"text": " is one of the easiest cases. Murder is one of the hardest things to prove. Because of reasonable doubt. You'd rather let a guilty man walk free than lock up an innocent man. Right. Let's face it, a lot of times it's super circumstantial. You're dead and you're dead and then it's up to the prosecutor to prove that I was there. There's no witness. It's so scary. You could literally go and pick something up"
},
{
"end_time": 4830.367,
"index": 186,
"start_time": 4806.203,
"text": " a hat that you might like. And then a person that's a victim buys that hat, takes it home. And with touch DNA now, right. They put you together with the guy. So your DNA was found in this murder. And you're like, no, I just picked that. Right. But let's say that that that's one of those things that you would just weird circumstantial things that just happened in life. And that gets very scary. There's a lot of people that have been locked up."
},
{
"end_time": 4858.797,
"index": 187,
"start_time": 4830.742,
"text": " that were innocent and now DNA is proving them innocent. Right. Well, that's something totally different. What we're talking about is that this guy got him off on murder, like he was getting off people on murder. So they didn't like him. They sent him to prison. So here's what I'm saying is that people, because he didn't want to do legal work, people are constantly coming to him begging him to do legal work because they're looking at he's a lawyer and he's great. He's a great lawyer. And because they're looking at the newspaper, they see that he's been super successful. So his story makes sense."
},
{
"end_time": 4887.329,
"index": 188,
"start_time": 4859.241,
"text": " People start giving him money. Like, bro, he's like, look, honestly, I can't. I mean, he's like, look, I'll do your case for you. I'm going to work, but I'm leaving here in like eight months to a year. I'll be in the halfway house and I'm going to be working at my brother's law office. You can have your family look up my brother, too. They would look him up. Sure enough, there's a law office. His brother's name is like, whatever, Bill Keegan or Tom Keegan. And they're like, oh, wow. Like, it's a pretty odd name. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 4916.476,
"index": 189,
"start_time": 4887.807,
"text": " And so people would see his brother come. He would also sometimes call his brother and say, can you pull this guy's docket sheet? So think about it. I can order my docket sheet, but it's going to take me two weeks to get it, maybe three weeks. But he would say, give me your docket number or your criminal number. OK. And then he'd come back two hours later and he'd have a printout where his brother pulled it. Like, you're like, wow, he really works at a fucking law firm. So this is his brother. This guy's connected. He could get research done."
},
{
"end_time": 4942.295,
"index": 190,
"start_time": 4917.142,
"text": " So he would say, look, I'll take your case. But honestly, man, it's like $3,500. I mean, I can't charge you. Well, you're in you're in you're in prison. So, you know, like I can work on it. And if I don't finish it by the time I by the time I leave, I'll be at my brother, my brother's law office. So I'll finish it while I'm there. So guys are like going to their parents, going to their family, coming up with the $3,500. They're putting it on his books."
},
{
"end_time": 4972.073,
"index": 191,
"start_time": 4942.568,
"text": " or he'd say, send it to my brother. They're sending it to his brother, his brother's cat, you know, personal, not to his, to the law firm, but they're sending him 1500 bucks. Like, Hey, give him, put a thousand in my books. Send my brother 1500. That's 2500 or whatever. So he, he, he's even though he's like, no, no, no, they're begging to give him money, begging. Their families are coming up with the money. This guy stockpiles. I don't know what it was. 20, $30,000 within the last few months. Right."
},
{
"end_time": 5002.688,
"index": 192,
"start_time": 4972.79,
"text": " He gets out of prison. He goes to the halfway house. Nobody hears from him. People start worrying. He's got my legal work. He was filing motions. My family gave him $3,500. My family gave him $2,500. My family, I bought this guy $2,000 worth of commissary. I put money on this guy's books and this guy, he's got money being sent everywhere. But he's explained that, look, I got to get out. I got to this. People start calling his brother's law firm."
},
{
"end_time": 5027.602,
"index": 193,
"start_time": 5002.892,
"text": " His brother is like, my brother's not a lawyer. My brother's a fucking con man. What are you talking about? My brother went to jail because he was doing the books for somebody and he was embezzling money from their business. And that's why he went to jail. And he's been to jail before. And they're like, no, my family looked him up. He was in the Chicago Tribune. Like, no, no, my brother's name is Jim Keegan."
},
{
"end_time": 5054.155,
"index": 194,
"start_time": 5027.944,
"text": " My father's name is Jim Keegan. My father was a big-time attorney. And he's like, do the math, bro. It's the 1984 story. Do you think it's me? He would have been 23 years old when he tried that case. He would have been 28 years old. Look at the photos. He's like, look at the photos. That's my dad. Of course the person at"
},
{
"end_time": 5081.886,
"index": 195,
"start_time": 5054.155,
"text": " the person at home looking up the doesn't realize that you're not they don't see what Jim Keegan looks like like this guy would be 70 something Jim Keegan's 50 like it you know so it's like it's like holy shit listen it was and I hate to say this but it was hilarious that is where and and so what happened and this is what's even more funny this is the only reason it reminds me of what you said right I had a literary agent at the time"
},
{
"end_time": 5105.811,
"index": 196,
"start_time": 5082.466,
"text": " And I remember telling the literary agent like, holy shit, you're not going to fucking like I was telling him about it, the whole thing. Right. Um, and he, so he knew about it. So what happens is it turns out that a lot of these people started, their family started writing letters to the bar saying, I gave this lawyer money."
},
{
"end_time": 5136.015,
"index": 197,
"start_time": 5106.698,
"text": " For his brother who was in prison and I gave him money. So his brother starts just paying people back because they're saying the bar is like saying first thing that what they say is we don't get involved in legal fee disputes. Right. But they also are writing letters to him saying you have to answer this. So he's scared. He starts cutting checks for thirty five hundred twenty five hundred fifteen hundred thirty five hundred. I even knew a guy that wrote a letter to him saying I gave your brother"
},
{
"end_time": 5160.589,
"index": 198,
"start_time": 5136.408,
"text": " This guy, even if he was a lawyer, he's great at getting"
},
{
"end_time": 5190.555,
"index": 199,
"start_time": 5160.998,
"text": " Aren't we at the appeal process and that's a special? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no"
},
{
"end_time": 5218.473,
"index": 200,
"start_time": 5190.896,
"text": " Or you can try and get around the one year time bar. It's called equitable tolling by making an argument. And listen, if you don't know any better, here's the worst thing about the law is that you could file a nice guy motion. You know what a nice guy motion is? Nice guy is Dave's a nice guy. You should let him out of jail and you could write it in green crown and send it into the federal court."
},
{
"end_time": 5241.493,
"index": 201,
"start_time": 5218.916,
"text": " And they would answer it like it was a legitimate thing. They'd say, you know, we are we are currently replying to the nice guy motion filed by by Dave stating that he is a nice guy and should be let out of jail under, you know, under Johnson versus the United States. It is clear that he is time barred. And they would they wouldn't be like, is this a joke?"
},
{
"end_time": 5268.114,
"index": 202,
"start_time": 5241.852,
"text": " They would act like so I could not know anything and there are guys in right now in federal prison who act like their jailhouse lawyers and they'll file motion. They'll take give me five hundred dollars. They'll file motions with you. And if you don't know anything about the law, you think they do and they don't know shit and the court responds like it's a legitimate argument. So you have no clue. But put that aside."
},
{
"end_time": 5297.944,
"index": 203,
"start_time": 5268.78,
"text": " So here's the second part of that, is that one day my literary agent comes to see me. I want to say he was in person. He might have just called me on the phone. I might have just talked to him on the phone. But he said, listen, Matt, he said, do you know a guy named Jim Keegan? And I said, yeah. Why? I said, remember I told you about him? And he goes, OK. He said, I thought it might be him. He goes, listen to this. He said, I went into a bar in Orlando. I was visiting a buddy."
},
{
"end_time": 5321.715,
"index": 204,
"start_time": 5298.899,
"text": " Who owns a bar in Orlando said I happen to be in the Orlando for some other reason because this guy was actually from like Clearwater or something. So he so my literary agent went to Orlando for some reason goes to a visit a buddy who owns a bar goes into the bar and while he's in the bar, he's sitting there talking to he's talking to the bartender and something came up where"
},
{
"end_time": 5348.063,
"index": 205,
"start_time": 5322.363,
"text": " He ended up saying something and Jim Keegan was there and Keegan said to him, and I forget exactly how it, but he ended up saying Reback, because the guy's last name was Reback. He's like, Reback. He goes, it's funny. He said, I got a buddy who has a lawyer named Reback. And he goes, that's an odd name. That's a very, you know, and he said, really? He said, who's your buddy? He goes, oh, he's a writer. He's named Matt Cox. And he goes,"
},
{
"end_time": 5368.285,
"index": 206,
"start_time": 5348.49,
"text": " Yeah, he said, I'm Ross Reback. He is Matt Cox's client of mine because I'm not a lawyer, though. He said, I'm a literary agent or his agent. He said, yeah, he's in prison. He said, how do you know him? And he looked at him and you got to think that's not this. But, you know, he looked at him and he went, oh, I had I actually did some legal work for him."
},
{
"end_time": 5384.753,
"index": 207,
"start_time": 5369.053,
"text": " And he said, Oh, you did? And he goes, Yeah, yeah, I did. He said, Oh, what's your name? He said, Oh, my name is. He said, Oh, it's Jim. He said, You know what? I'll get you a business card. Hold on a second goes to his girlfriend because he was sitting with some woman. And so Ross turns to his buddy who owns the bar."
},
{
"end_time": 5412.978,
"index": 208,
"start_time": 5385.384,
"text": " and says, um, Oh, you know him because yeah, he comes in here all the time with us. He comes in here probably two, three times a week, but they live around his girlfriend. She's got a bunch of money. She was, he was a very nice neighborhood. Right. Yeah. She lives around here. They come in all the time. He's okay. He said, well, he walked outside. He said about a minute later, the girl gets up and walks outside and he said, five minutes go by 10 minutes go by 15."
},
{
"end_time": 5429.531,
"index": 209,
"start_time": 5413.404,
"text": " He walks outside, he's like the guy that they had pulled up in like a Mercedes, it's gone. And he turns around and he goes, what's that guy's name? Because he said Jim. What's his name? And he goes, well, he paid with his credit card. Hold on. He pulls out his slip and he goes, Jim Keegan."
},
{
"end_time": 5458.933,
"index": 210,
"start_time": 5430.145,
"text": " And he's like, OK, cool. Yeah. And so he so when I talk to Ross Ross, do you know a guy named Jim Keegan? And I was like, yeah, this is the guy who's like, fuck, I knew it was the guy. I knew it. Yeah. He said, this is what happened. And he tells me the whole thing. I was like, holy shit. And I said, yeah, bro, you're you're never going to see him again. He said, I know I'm not. That had been weeks and weeks. He said, my buddy said he came in three times a week at least. Sure. He said it had been two weeks. He'd never come back in. You know, it's funny. It's bolted is Paul heard that after he left."
},
{
"end_time": 5483.677,
"index": 211,
"start_time": 5459.445,
"text": " To go to spring training. Srails showed up at Rotama racetrack, but he didn't want no La Duca around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He told you bolted. Yeah. So, but what I was gonna say is Keegan, by the way, if you look it up, got, he was on probation, got rearrested because he then opened up a, he opened up a, um, opened up a, uh, whatever, an office, a law office."
},
{
"end_time": 5512.654,
"index": 212,
"start_time": 5484.411,
"text": " saying that he was filing claims for him. He was an immigration lawyer taking money for immigrant. He was charging fifteen hundred to thirty five hundred dollars. That's big money for immigrant to file immigration papers. Big money. Yeah. And he had he borrowed something like half a million dollars in about or he got like half a million dollars in like less than less than a year and was actually here's a really funny part was giving. So after a certain period of time,"
},
{
"end_time": 5537.142,
"index": 213,
"start_time": 5513.524,
"text": " He was actually, I want to say it was more than that. It actually says it in the article. I ought to pull up that article. He was actually giving out green cards, like the cards. He actually started making fake cards. And so guys are coming in, I gave you, I got it. Here's your card. Your card came in here. Now you're off doing your thing. So some of these guys get caught and start a whole investigation. And that's how we got grabbed that time. Goes back to jail again."
},
{
"end_time": 5563.848,
"index": 214,
"start_time": 5537.773,
"text": " Did got 10 years, got out on COVID or something. He kept the same. You would think he closes office. No, no, this is another one. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's what I'm saying. You think you do it for six months or three months and then bolt, especially when people start coming in complaining. These guys aren't that smart. They, they think they're smarter and everybody's an idiot. Just like your buddy. They, you know, you got this guy to live it. You're borrowing from all these people in the same office, tell them the same lie, building up money. And then you"
},
{
"end_time": 5576.169,
"index": 215,
"start_time": 5564.411,
"text": " Yeah, I had a friend, you know, my friend, Matt, he was bogus. The appraisals were bogus and he wanted me to pretend like he was his lawyer. And luckily I said no, because they were watching him."
},
{
"end_time": 5597.858,
"index": 216,
"start_time": 5576.698,
"text": " That's a completely different case that you're talking about. But it's another guy that thinks he's smarter than he really is. Had he not run, he wouldn't even have probably gone to jail. Anyways, I don't want anybody to have pity on Dave Srail because I forgot to tell you, when we were going through his bedroom, we found some girly bank magazines."
},
{
"end_time": 5625.64,
"index": 217,
"start_time": 5598.985,
"text": " He had cut out pictures of my ex fiance, cause we all went out one night on the town and put it in place of the pictures on the girl's bodies and was hand feeding it to my ex's picture. That's just weird. That's just wrong. I mean, who would go out of their way to do it? Like thinking about my ex. Well, here's what I don't understand is like,"
},
{
"end_time": 5646.613,
"index": 218,
"start_time": 5626.237,
"text": " You said that whole time, like he never dated anybody? He's not a bad looking guy. What's weird was when he was at work, he wore his hair really long and it looked goofy because if you trim him up, he presents himself as 6'4\". He was a big dude."
},
{
"end_time": 5658.285,
"index": 219,
"start_time": 5646.869,
"text": " Was he wearing a mullet? He kind of had a dumb looking mullet. There's two pictures. You can see both his hairstyles. He would change it when he'd go someplace else that was probably the South Florida hairstyle. And I'm like,"
},
{
"end_time": 5685.009,
"index": 220,
"start_time": 5658.865,
"text": " To me that that story would"
},
{
"end_time": 5714.906,
"index": 221,
"start_time": 5685.657,
"text": " That would get you laid more than anything. Of course! So why not play up on it? That's what I'm saying. If you're going to create this bullshit, why not take the benefit? Exactly. I mean, you either... You just have no game? That's why I was wondering if he was maybe a little... He likes showtunes, Matt. I was kind of like... Mentally, I wonder what's wrong with... You know? But why is he cutting pictures out of my old girlfriend and putting it in place?"
},
{
"end_time": 5735.111,
"index": 222,
"start_time": 5715.213,
"text": " Oh, man. All right. My mother's gonna listen. It's like, I can't believe he did that. Poor Rhea. So that's my story of living with a con man for six months and seeing the whole thing unfold. And unfortunately,"
},
{
"end_time": 5763.012,
"index": 223,
"start_time": 5735.998,
"text": " 30 days for a knife. He really ruined a couple families lives. Right. And he knows how much damage he's really done. Those are the things that are extremely obvious that you've come across. Who knows how many little tiny things. And we would later find out he did the same thing in Ohio for well over $100,000. And he just kept repeating the process wherever he went. And the government says, that's a civil matter."
},
{
"end_time": 5790.503,
"index": 224,
"start_time": 5763.49,
"text": " But if you steal from a bank, we're going to throw you in prison. Right. I mean, that's got my mind going, you know what I'm saying? It's got the gears going, but yeah. It just seems very unfair. Listen, if I did that, if I clipped somebody for 200,000, 300,000, they would say it's fraud. Yeah, of course. You're going to prison. Of course. Because just because they're like, yeah, it's you. Yeah. I wouldn't have old Dave's luck."
},
{
"end_time": 5817.978,
"index": 225,
"start_time": 5790.811,
"text": " Yeah, yeah. You might be right, but it just doesn't make sense. It's sad. The real sad thing is even if they went and arrested the guy, they're never going to get anything. He's going to make restitution payments. Keep them out of prison. Make them work to pay it off. Because that's what the people need is money. Don't send them to jail. Well, first of all, mentally like this, there are some people that no matter what you do,"
},
{
"end_time": 5842.961,
"index": 226,
"start_time": 5819.087,
"text": " They're gonna they're gonna run some kind of con and me obviously is again. He's he's Addicted to gambling. Yes, but you said he wasn't bad at it. You said he lost hundreds of thousand dollars But that's the whole thing when he was really a great handicapper such the fact that Thistle Downs Hired him as their on-track handicapper and he did the TV show and"
},
{
"end_time": 5864.889,
"index": 227,
"start_time": 5843.763,
"text": " He showed me tapes of it. This wasn't him saying, I saw it with my own eyes. He did a TV show. This'll downs a little track in Ohio, but Dave was really a good handicapper. And if he set his mind to it and he manages money's right, you know, they don't build these tracks on people winning. They build people losing. But there are some guys that, you know, if you pick your spots,"
},
{
"end_time": 5895.333,
"index": 228,
"start_time": 5865.384,
"text": " But Dave couldn't control himself. So like when I told the story about him being at the high life front on, he's betting Australia at eight o'clock in the morning. That's what he was doing. Right. If he would have just kept his gambling just to the weekends, probably maybe he wouldn't have lost so much, but this guy just got to have action. And I think that was his ultimate undoing. The sad thing was he lived in the straight and narrow probably four or five years. And it was that last year down here in Florida that"
},
{
"end_time": 5925.759,
"index": 229,
"start_time": 5896.271,
"text": " It really got to them. It's like being an alcoholic. They've been great for five years and then they have won six months. They've lost everything. Yeah, yeah. And gambling is such an issue, especially if you're competitive. When you lose, you want to get back up and go right back at it. Right. And so you're more engaged"
},
{
"end_time": 5955.316,
"index": 230,
"start_time": 5926.049,
"text": " More engaged. Is that you? Yeah, it must be the people showing up to fix the AC. You wanna take it? Speaking of marriage though. What? Braille. What? So if the ex-fiance is fake. Right. And didn't have any chicks down there. So if the ex-fiance is fake and didn't go after any chicks, apparently he and Avelina dated very briefly. Was he afraid to bring a woman into his con?"
},
{
"end_time": 5984.701,
"index": 231,
"start_time": 5957.09,
"text": " I have no idea. I dated a chick that I remember she had told me that she dated a guy because I remember we had gone on a few dates. This was 20 years ago. I remember we'd gone on like one date or two dates and I remember she was like, we had slept together and she said, do you have any fetishes? And I was like, well, what do you mean? And she goes,"
},
{
"end_time": 6008.336,
"index": 232,
"start_time": 5985.077,
"text": " she said i just want to make sure that you're just like a normal like there's nothing weird and i was like why i was like have you've dated some guys that have some weird stuff she goes yeah because i dated a guy that literally she said he had like a feet fetish and i was like are you she's like like he literally wanted me to lube up my feet and he would it's she's it was"
},
{
"end_time": 6026.817,
"index": 233,
"start_time": 6009.138,
"text": " You and I were on Match.com about the same time and I remember I used to go to Tampa Orlando meet some girls that Becky how but I didn't run to her because let me tell you something"
},
{
"end_time": 6051.476,
"index": 234,
"start_time": 6027.346,
"text": " You're a better man than me. She would have been hog-tied duct tape. I would have taken more than half of the money and said, here you go, honey. I'm out of here. Yeah, that's not. You're a good man. You left her with a bunch of money. I tell you what. She didn't last. She lasted about a year. That's the type of woman that I would date thinking, oh, I feel bad for her. She's bipolar. And then next thing you know, I'm wondering, what am I doing?"
},
{
"end_time": 6064.684,
"index": 235,
"start_time": 6051.903,
"text": " Oh, listen, I thought it all the time. She had me, too. She had me. She'd cry. I'm a sucker for girls that cry. Yeah, I start crying, and I feel bad. But anyway, you ready?"
},
{
"end_time": 6089.104,
"index": 236,
"start_time": 6065.845,
"text": " Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell, leave a comment. We're going to leave the website that we've been talking about in the description."
},
{
"end_time": 6114.616,
"index": 237,
"start_time": 6090.333,
"text": " Think Verizon, the best 5G network is expensive? Think again. Bring in your AT&T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon"
},
{
"end_time": 6142.995,
"index": 238,
"start_time": 6118.37,
"text": " Ever seen an origami version of the Miami Bull? Jokes aside, Verizon has the most ways to save on phones and plans where everyone in the family can choose their own plan and save. So bring in your bill to your local Miami Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. It started with a scream inside a quiet Maryland home."
},
{
"end_time": 6168.029,
"index": 239,
"start_time": 6143.575,
"text": " A mother trying to protect the family dog and her son in the grip of a violent hallucinogenic rage. By the time it was over, she was dead, and he claimed LSD made him do it. His name, David Minor IV, and we talked to him. Listen to Invisible Choir every other week as we uncover the most haunting true crimes you've never heard of, available wherever you get your podcasts."
}
]
}No transcript available.